School Bullies, Racism & Toilet Catastrophes

0:18Romesh Ranganathan:Welcome to the email edition of the Wolf and Al Podcast. We're doing some emails for you. bullfoulpod at gmail.com if you want to send in a query like subscribe or an opinion yeah like subscribe all that big stuff keep reposting the clips the clips are doing great you don't have to repost the clips if you don't it's nice if you do though really really gather momentum really get some people going oh my god these two have got a podcast yes I do think we've promoted it now yeah I think by the way yeah we need to shout out the people now behind the scenes who've actually for the first time in a long time I feel like people actually go oh so you have got a podcast yeah Yeah.

0:56I've had one for six years that everyone goes, you should do a podcast. Everyone's doing one now.

1:00Romesh Ranganathan:I was walking past a bar last night after a gig. Yeah. And a load of people shouted out, well for now, well for now. I was walking past pretty good. This is none of your jokes. It's not? Really? Yeah. Okay, well, okay. What a shit joke that would be, by the way. Yeah, but some of your jokes can be a bit like that. Yeah, fine. You can get away with that stuff. What do you mean? What's that? You can say stuff in your tone and I believe, it's not really, you know that I'm like, huh, what? And you go, I'm joking. And I go, oh, I really like the idea of that. I'm joking, of course. That would never happen.

1:33Oh, I think, do you know what I think? I think onions are getting above their station. I'm getting fed up of onions walking around, giving it to Billy Beakballs. Hey, you know an onion called the other day for you and said you're amazing? Of course it didn't. Onions don't talk.

1:55I think an onion would be a good friend for you. It's got lots of layers. And it could go with anything. And you're just sharp. Bitter. A little bit like me. Why are you doing that with your face?

2:09I love this. This is a new you. I'll teach him a lesson. You can say anything. I'll fall for it. Because I love you. Why don't you unbuckle your jeans and take them down? Why, mate? I'll do it if you want me to. I've got to say, buckles are really underrated. Not enough people talk about buckles.

2:36Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what? I feel sorry for buckles. They're just walking around going, oh, I'm holding on as tight as I can. Do they ever get any credit? No, they bloody don't. Do you know what? I'd like to go up to the inventor of buckles and suck him off. Do you know who invented buckles? Lewis Capaldi. no he didn't

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4:32Romesh Ranganathan:Right, first email. Do you want to read it or shall I? I think this is a you one. Lads, lads, lads. Yo. Big fan of the pod. That's how the podcast started. The email started, by the way. Big fan of the pod and I thought I'd reach out for a bit of advice. I'm a second generation Chinese, 47-year-old British chap. My son is a 14-year-old Wajian legend. He's very cool, funny, good-looking, ridiculously clever, and captain of the school football team. Yes, I am jealous. Sounds a bit like Theo. Yeah. Yeah. God. You've literally become that guy, haven't you? Oh, God. It's infected me. We recently got a call from the school as he got into a fight.

5:08Romesh Ranganathan:Now, despite all the admirable attributes our boy has, height, strength, and overall body mass, like me, aren't part of the collection. So this is surprising. The other boy, a friend, allegedly called him the C word often used by boomers to describe a Chinese takeaway. Not once, but not twice, but indeed thrice. The third time, our mini-me went straight up to the agitator and punched him. He punched him in exchange for being separated. Now, here's the issue. I've explained to him in a very dad-like way that it was very different back in my day, and the only way to deal with this shit was to fight.

5:36Romesh Ranganathan:Three and O, by the way. However, what I don't want is for him to feel the same way I did when I was racially abused as a kid. The truth is I was never taught how to deal with it properly. I just felt an instant hurricane of sadness and anger. My wife, a very sensible white ex-police sergeant, says they're just words and violence is never the answer, but I do feel it's very difficult to explain to someone that feeling. Ramesh, I'm not sure if you've felt this way. I've no doubt you've experienced similar throughout your life, being literally everywhere in the mainstream UK media, and that's a compliment.

6:01Romesh Ranganathan:Part of me is a little bit proud he's stuck up for himself. The other 14-year-old he had the fight with is weirdly 6 '3 in an absolute unit. I've also told him about the importance of choosing your battles. But ultimately, I don't want him to feel ashamed, belittled, angry and sad like I did when I was a kid. I guess what I'm asking, particularly Romesh, is what do you say to your boys when dealing with this bullshit? I hasten to add, would value any input from the Mighty Tom too? It's good to hear from a victim and an aggressor, I think. Me and said son are coming to see him in September in Ramsgate, home of the world's biggest Wetherspoons.

6:29Romesh Ranganathan:All the best lads, proud panda. Tom? Well, I think this is... Well, look, I can relate to both of these things. I got racially abused at school quite a lot and I got stuff, like slurs thrown at me a fair bit and I remember once I was walking out of school and like there was this kid that was sort of known for being racist he just spat on me he spat on you yeah as I was walking out of school but it was like yeah it's horrible so you just get shit I used to get shit like that and I once I was mate actually this is quite funny there's this kid I'm not going to name him but there's a kid massive yeah and we were so there was big kids which really makes me as what was a big kid quite sad but there was like a little subway like just across from the front of the school.

7:14Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. And that's where all the fights used to happen. So one day, we're watching the school football match, a school football match, and I walked over to him, and I was saying something to him, and he basically called me a P word. Yeah. Right? So I sort of said to him, why did you, you know, we got a bit aggressive, but the guy was huge, and I was scared. Yeah. But at the same time, I wanted to do something about it because it was such a, you know, obviously, like that hurricane of sadness is accurate, right? It's just like a horrible, horrible reminder of like how some people feel about it or whatever.

7:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. So then I basically said, we're going to sort this out, right? I didn't want to, but I just felt like I had no choice, right? Yeah. So then there's quite a lot of Asian kids in my year group and they said, they were like egging me on and they're going, look, we've got your back, we've got your back, da-da-da. and um so it was the day that we're due to have the fight so imagine being like you're at school the whole day that's all everyone focuses on yeah and everyone's talking about it everyone's coming up to me going are you definitely gonna like are you gonna turn up and I'm like and I'm going yeah yeah yeah he shouldn't have said it he shouldn't have said it I'm shitting myself it's like doing a gig it's worse than a gig fucking shitting myself whole school by the way now is probably invested and then I get to like as the end of the day is approaching I'm just like there's no way this guy's gonna fucking pulverise me but I've said it now do you know what I mean I don't want to back down.

8:42So, end of school, everybody is at that end of the school.

8:48Romesh Ranganathan:Popcorn. Yeah, properly. Go down to the subway. Just kids lining the whole thing everywhere, right? What was the... How were they, like, greeting you when you turned up? I think they just wanted to see a fight. I mean, it wasn't like... They didn't feel like animosity, but there weren't people going, kill him, Romesh, kill him. But they were like, I had a group of people with me that were just like sort of, you know. Anyway, so I'm waiting in the subway. And I'm like, basically, I'm waiting to get my head kicked in. Because there's no way I'll win this fight, right? But I've got to stand up for myself, blah, blah, blah.

9:22Romesh Ranganathan:I bet it was one wise-ass kid who was like, Dead Man Morgan! Yeah, all that. Nobody believed that I had a chance in this. But I think that's what sort of made it... There were some people supporting me that couldn't believe that I'd offer this guy. Anyway, I don't know why. but for some reason his ass went and he didn't turn up I have got no idea why did you never see him again? I saw him at school yeah but then he's a chicken yes now I don't know what happened right all I can tell you is we waited like by the way there's very few reasons you chicken out of a fight like that like yeah you know what I mean what your mum's called your home chicken yeah you got something else on chicken chicken yeah you're a fucking chicken You're a piece of shit anyway.

10:08You're a racist chicken.

10:09Romesh Ranganathan:There's another Asian guy that you've got to have a fight with because you called him a P word. Chicken. Anyway, basically what happened was is enough time had elapsed. Yeah, but the nobility thrown on you then. My God. That was some of my, those were my halcyon days at school. Wow. Holy shit. I'll come in the next day. Just explain for listeners who might not know what's halcyon mean. That was when I was in my pomp. Okay. You're wow. Like really good. Yeah. That was, I was like Marvel like in the Infinity Wars oh my days era do you know what I mean like at the absolute top of my game people going oh my god I can't believe it can't believe it because you've won the fight yeah people like I'm basically and also by the way you've got a certain candice there until like you have to have another fight of Romesh Rang and Nathan who's the hardest guy in the school but then obviously I then had to do the thing of like are you going to like are you gutted like do you want to sort it and I go no I think he's got the message I think I don't think there needs to be a rematch put it that way Well, I think the whole thing about a rematch is you have to have a match over a rematch, and he was too...

11:09Romesh Ranganathan:to turn up. Then at uni, it's happened a few times. We got jumped by skinheads when I was coming out of a club in uni and stuff like that. So it happens. Anyway, so I do think it was worse back then. However, the boys have had races. Yeah, yeah. Not loads, not as much as I did, but they have had it, like comments and stuff. I remember like we had a bit of an incident. I think I've said, I don't know if I've said this before, but somebody, one of the kids, I think it might have been Theo, was chatting to a girl. Like, you know, it's just some friend at school. And one of the other kids said, I don't know why you're bothering to chat to her.

11:51Romesh Ranganathan:You're going to end up marrying your cousin or something like that, right? So Theo came home and told us. But I feel like the boys, and they've had like, Alex has had the P word said to him when he's been walking around school. Do you think that's now because the world has become more... Yeah, well, I think possibly. But I think at a certain point you've got to go... They're obviously hearing that at home. So whenever I see that or I hear that a kid's done it, I'm then the next time I see their parents, I'm thinking you're probably racist, right? Do you know what I mean? And that's a horrible thing.

12:27Romesh Ranganathan:I actually think, I get that your son wanted to defend himself. In my opinion, I think racism is horrible and abhorrent. I think it's a mistake to supercharge it. And what I mean by that is, if somebody calls you a racial slur and it immediately ignites you, it gives that person power over you, I think. Do you know what I mean? so they know if they say that word, they can get like a rise out of you. I remember once I was walking past the pub and this guy, this is like maybe my dad had just passed away. So this must have been, so I was in a bad way mentally. And I think my friends had taken me out.

13:11Romesh Ranganathan:My brother and I are at dinner night for a drink to sort of like, do you know what I mean? Just to sort of, and we were walking past this pub and this guy started shouting, he sort of targeted me, but I was with, anyway, he started shouting at me going, so many racial, like so much racist stuff. It was like pretty unprovoked. There's so much like levering me with like racial slurs. And I turned around and I was in the mood to like, I was in a bad place. And I turned around and then this guy, really lovely guy, ran from like somewhere else and came and grabbed me and he said, I know you're angry.

13:48Romesh Ranganathan:And he said, but he's saying whatever he possibly can to provoke people because he's been looking for a fight, right? He's been saying it to each other. so then I realised this guy's just saying it to rile me up and then I realised that actually we're giving those words like power, do you know what I mean and I think like actually you want to kind of I'm not saying you shouldn't react to racism but I'm saying that immediately leading you to be violent is not something I want my kids to do do you know what I mean and I get why the panda is saying I was sort of proud because you do want to stick up for yourself but actually I think just meeting it with violence probably isn't the way.

14:23Romesh Ranganathan:Although, you know, if my kids did something like that, I would find it difficult to really be angry with them. Yeah, because it's like, it's just a horrible thing. Do you know what I mean? It's awful, man. And you, I mean, I don't know if you want to give your story from the other side of that. Yeah, I mean, I was just I can't never laugh.

14:51Oh, why so sensitive? Chill out. Christ, man. Live for the moment.

15:01Romesh Ranganathan:If you don't like the chat, go home. The reason I couldn't get down to the underpass for a fight was I had to go to my grand house and she was ill.

15:12One of the first ever times I really witnessed anything like that, we were filming a thing and there was like four actors in the back of a car and one of them was quite drunk and just what you were saying about the guy outside the pub and he started digging me out about something and was just trying to provoke me and I was whatever. And then tried to do it to this other actor, tried just to provoke him. And then when it came to the turn of the fourth guy, it was a racial thing. He just went in with racism. and at that point the guy you know the guy went to hit the guy being racist i was like that you you know i was the only thing you know i would just jumped in was like if you hit him tomorrow it's not about like what this guy said is you've hit this guy and and he's at the time he was a bigger name than the rest of us my thing with his but it was one of the few times and then just sat with this guy afterwards for an hour or so and he was just in tears and you're just like fuck like this just just that to see someone just go from this to this to almost the most abhorrent thing just to get a rise out of someone and clearly that was the thing that that spiked and yeah um yeah i i mean personally i i find it yeah i'd find it very hard not to feel a certain level of pride or anything in the fact that you the son has stuck up for himself um and like in any situation it's just yeah it's the worst i find it very soul-destroying yeah when you hear of it of it happening especially you know at that age yeah you know kids getting that kind of using that kind of language is very very sad um yeah anyway long mate continue am i right

16:57Romesh Ranganathan:uh should we get to the next one this episode is brought to you by adt one second you're enjoying your day off. The next, your phone buzzes. A window's been broken at home. You're miles away. In one second, everything can change. That's why ADT security systems can monitor your home 24-7. They're backed by the most company-operated monitoring centers in the industry, so you're always supported during an emergency. When every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com to learn more.

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18:01Romesh Ranganathan:this is an advertisement from better help now anyone who listens to this show regularly knows that mental health comes up a lot and that's not accidental something we both think matters and every time it does come up we get messages from people saying it helped them feel less alone with something they were going through which tells you that a lot of people are carrying quite a lot at any given time work pressures relationships big life changes just the general weight of everything and for a long time the default was to get on with it quietly not to mention it and hope it sorted itself out which obviously is not really a strategy generally one of the worst strategies in fact it makes things worse i speak from extensive personal experience so we are delighted to be working with better help because having access to a qualified professional someone to actually talk through what's going on with makes a real difference not just in crisis but for everyday stuff too the things that build up and the numbers back that up over six million people globally have used better help better help therapists have at least three years and a thousand hours of hands-on experience and hold all the required qualifications and certifications there are over 30 000 of them worldwide covering everything from work stress to relationships to major life changes and you can fit it around your schedule whatever your week looks like there are flexible ways to connect that work around it which honestly is the bit that makes it actually doable rather than just another thing you mean to get around to but don't if you've been thinking about therapy better help can help you take the first step sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com slash wolf owl that's better h-e-l-p dot com slash wolf owl hey mateys uh i've recently started facing a regular problem mainly at work where the toilets I go to use are utterly covered in skid marks oh god obviously this is by the way we just had a really high brow one where you know and then the butcher's are very much it's quite appropriate isn't it because probably a person of colour doing that yeah obviously this isn't much of a big deal but it's happening so frequently now I'm slowly starting to despair aside from being fucking disgusting I met with quite an issue when I stumbled across said stains do I clean the shit stains out or do I leave them well I can tell you if you're going to the Rangaby offices the answer is leaving them

20:28I've been there for three weeks man that's all I'm saying has there been shit stains in the toilet yeah in the men's toilets there's a big skid mark is there I'm joking of course oh god I thought you were serious

20:40Romesh Ranganathan:oh it's just rummish you so when you came to Crawley to that gig and somebody had shat on the floor that was by the way one of the most disgusting things I've ever heard about Thanks for coming around, though. All right, let's go. Shout out, Dinesh. Do I clean the shit stains or do I leave them? My gut reaction is always, no, fuck that. The previous shit in Gimp should have sorted it out like the adults they are. However, my paranoid brain is left worrying where someone uses a toilet right after me and thinks I'm the grotty little trial man who leaves a shite round for all to see. It's genuinely baffling that these feral, fecal phantoms can do this so shamelessly and I'm reduced to cleaning up after these fuckers like some kind of poo cuck.

21:18This is incredible writing. Is there even a solution to this? I was considering making some signs, shaming them to stick around the pod. Maybe you both have their ideas. If not, at least I'm helped to fill the pod's poo quota for this episode. All the best. AJ. AJ, great email. Well, that's not only Joshua, is it? Yeah, it is, 100%. Imagine if it was. Eddie Hearn, fucking Johnny. Oh, Skinners. this is I weirdly we have this the offices at my work so the offices at my work the toilet at my offices is any say like fucking male film my toilets what's it called anyone can use them unisex that's a word Jesus Christ I'm fucking sparring so they're unisex toilets anyone can use them was it difficult to remember the word when you say disgusted by the concept No, no, but my big thing about that is, right, if it's just male toilets...

22:18There's a certain level of depravity you're allowed it to decline to. Yeah, right. If you're following me into the toilet... You don't care how you leave it, I know. I remember King Garry. We didn't share a toilet at King Garry. Yeah, flushing optional on the King Garry side.

22:35But there's people who do it at our office, where you go in the toilet, and that feeling of, like, I'm going to have to clean this up, because quite a lot of the time there's people waiting to go in after you. If you come out and there's skid marks, the more shaming thing of having to go, oh, that wasn't me, by the way.

22:51Romesh Ranganathan:I've never done that. No, no, no, no. It's too different. You can't pull it off. No. Not even you. Yeah, no. And also, by the way, I look like it probably was me. Yeah. Yeah, I have that look. Yeah. I can't think of anybody, and it sounds like an insult, but it isn't because I love you. I can't think of a description of anybody or a look of anybody that would look more like they'd lift skid marks on the pan than you. Yeah, than me. yeah I have that look about can I say by the way little tip if you're going to go for that kind of poo try and hold your wee in turn around and do your piss afterwards Jesus fucking Christ what what that's a fucking great tip you jet wash them off yourself after it's one of the joys of having a penis it's like you turn around squirt it all away it's gone flush the chain afterwards obviously you know that's but I would say it's very hard the sign thing where do you set it because I don't think you can leave the sign saying I don't think the signs I don't think the signs will do anything and then it will lead to an investigation as to who put the signs up and then you don't want to be like the toilet sign person what do you think if people are not looking because I'm by the way because I look like that person I'm really fucking I'm quite anal about it yeah I tend to clean up yeah I do you clean up other people's yeah if I'm going for a we unless it's Really bad, in which case I probably won't use the toilet.