In short
Childhood sleepovers and school friendships, focusing on insecurity, anxiety, and how “power dynamics” and rumors shape kids’ behavior. Romesh and Tom trade stories about being homesick at sleepovers, wetting the bed, and feeling panicked when it’s time to call home; they also discuss a “cool kid” rumor about a boy’s mother in lingerie and how urban legends spread. They add examples of boundary issues in friendships (a friend being “too full on”), and a near-missing-in-the-woods bike ride that ended with the friend crying and later friendship fallout. They close with a reflection on seeking closure and learning to be better.
Guests
No guests. The episode features hosts Romesh Ranganathan and Tom Davis only.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPre-Show Feast and KFC
0:45 to 2:15
Discussion about a pre-show meal involving KFC and a vegan burger.
“Just kidding, every word in this song's about two grown men dressed up as a bird and a dog.”
Childhood Sleepover Experiences
2:15 to 4:29
Sharing personal stories and experiences related to childhood sleepovers.
“So you were like the kid who'd go down and have a cuddle with whoever was at mum's house?”
Anxiety and Sleepover Fears
4:29 to 6:30
Conversations about the anxieties and fears associated with sleepovers as kids.
“I'm not going to go in here because I actually think it's kind of...”
Awkward Sleepover Moments
6:30 to 8:08
Sharing awkward moments during sleepovers, including a friend's family argument.
“Like some jobs you just go, I'm not coming in.”
Modern Sleepovers and Parenting
8:08 to 9:58
Discussion on how children's sleepovers have changed and personal parenting experiences.
“And him and his brother, I was sleeping on the floor.”
Memorable Sleepover Tales
11:28 to 14:01
Recalling unique and funny stories from sleepovers involving different cultural experiences.
Urban Legends of Sleepovers
14:01 to 16:53
Discussing the urban legend about a friend's mom in lingerie during a sleepover.
“because I'm going to be really careful not to at school, there was like, what do they call it?”
Recollections of Childhood Experiences
16:54 to 19:35
Tom and Romesh share their experiences and memories of childhood sleepovers and friends.
“yeah it was like a soft soft erotica so he used to put that on for people to watch when they went round what the fuck are you talking about?”
The Mike Tyson Fight Memories
19:36 to 20:50
A nostalgic recount of watching the Mike Tyson fight and sleepovers with friends.
“oh that's nice but 12 of us yeah How old are you then?”
A Bike Ride Gone Wrong
21:40 to 28:00
Romesh tells a story about a tense bike ride with a friend that leads to misunderstandings.
“And then she'd go, oh, wow, are you a 30-year-old man in an 11-year-old's body?”
Show all 18 chapters
Reflections on Childhood Friendships
28:00 to 29:17
The hosts discuss their childhood friendships and the dynamics of being an 'underling'.
“my dad says that I should just give you a bit of space.”
A Tale of Abandonment and Misunderstanding
29:17 to 31:33
Tom shares a story of a problematic friendship that led to feelings of abandonment.
“There's a couple of other things that happened.”
Encountering the Cool Kid
31:33 to 33:31
Tom narrates an encounter with a childhood friend who was perceived as cool and how it affected him.
“I think he literally, you know, he wore loafers to school.”
The Impact of Social Status
33:31 to 36:08
The discussion revolves around the effects of social status during school years.
Self-Reflection and Growth
36:08 to 38:36
The hosts reflect on their past behaviors and how they strive to be better people now.
“I'm always proud to see you smashing it.”
Imagining a Reunion with Nathan
38:36 to 42:00
The hosts role-play a hypothetical reunion with Nathan, exploring unresolved feelings.
Reconnecting After Years
42:00 to 44:26
Hear a conversation about reconnecting with old friends and reminiscing about school experiences.
“I always knew you were headed for the stars.”
Searching for Resolution
44:26 to 46:13
Exploration of the various ways we seek closure and connection in life.
“You can get there by helicopter, airplane, by car.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Romesh Ranganathan:Hello and welcome to the Wolf and Owl podcast. Yo, what's up? Welcome to another episode of the Wolf and Owl podcast. We're delighted to have you. My name is Romesh Ranganathan. Enamored to have you. Yes, my name is Romesh Ranganathan. Enamored to have you, friends. My name is Romesh Ranganathan. Everybody knows your name. My name is Romesh Ranganathan and... My name is Tom Davis. And we, together, we are the wolf and the... How are you? Oh, you're just showing your little navel. Yeah, that's nice. A little bit of a tease.
0:40Yeah, what do you want?
0:42Romesh Ranganathan:Beak or jaws, feathers or fur, sharp teeth or feet with claws, whatever's preferred. Just kidding, every word in this song's about two grown men dressed up as a bird and a dog. How are you? Yeah, good. Slightly, look, we've had a bit of a feast before the show. let's just get it out in the open big shout out to Shan who sort of sat with some KFC I had a vegan burger delicious it looked Tom, John and Zoe from the office had about 3-4 kilos of chicken between them with fries and all the sauces I only had a little splattering of fries splattering? I've already had a potato and a half of fries I'd say that's more than a splattering that's a big old splat that a potato and a half of fries I think you've done yourself a disservice.
1:28I think you had half a potato. You had about half a potato. Yeah, about half a potato. How many fries did you have, John? I had loads. John loves eating. He's a real good eater. Yeah. He's got a good appetite. The lithest of the three of us. Yeah, you know if you went around someone's house when you were a kid, that would be the description their parents would say, he's got a good appetite. No, you're not inviting John around, are you?
1:46Romesh Ranganathan:He's got a great appetite. We'll have to do the weekly shop a couple of days early. Philip doesn't eat, but you're John. He's got a good appetite. That greedy little fuck's coming around. What were you like as a kid going around to people's houses?
2:00Romesh Ranganathan:I used to go around to people's houses for a sleepover. Yeah. And then I'd get homesick and then ask to be picked up. Oh, that is cute. It's not surprising, but it's cute. It's a bit tragic, isn't it? What time would it be? Like, as it was getting towards bedtime, I'd start to get a bit nervous and anxious about staying over. So you were like the kid who'd go down and have a cuddle with whoever was at mum's house? so if you make would I go and have a cuddle with my mate's mum no like because they give you a cuddle because you were scared no they didn't give me a cuddle oh okay did you used to cuddle your mate's mum's no no if you're upset there was some bullying going on if I walked in and saw Lisa giving one of the boys mates a cuddle no not cuddle cuddle but like the arm round like yeah are we watching EastEnders Ron do you want to bless him he doesn't want to be upstairs with the other boys yeah I think I'd last till after the end of EastEnders before I wanted to go home.
2:54Romesh Ranganathan:So it'd be like 10 o 'clock? Yeah. Nine o 'clock when people are starting to talk about bedtime I'll start to get nervous. What kind of sleep are you at nine o 'clock everyone's going I was going to bed then. Well no you know you sort of move to the bedroom don't you? Yeah. You pack up all your lube. Mortal Kombat goes on. Yeah. And then you take all your sort of blankets and all the rubber. You're kissing your mate on the back of the neck. Gint mask and all that. So what was it that made you so terrified? I don't know. It was like a phase I went through where I just started to... Were you a bed wearer?
3:23Romesh Ranganathan:No. What are you doing? Are you trying to collect little bits of metal? No, I'm just asking. No, I wasn't with you. Yeah, not until I was that old but yeah, yeah. I wet the bed up until probably I was about, I don't know, six. I imagine for a kid of your size you'd have to replace the whole... The house? Yeah. No, it's just... Fuck your dad looking up at the lights. I was six for two that time. There's fucking water coming through with the light fitting there. He's pissed the bed again. He's pissing in his cage again. No, I was just... Boom, boom. Stop pissing, you silly c***.
3:56Give him another baby Ruth. He'll be all right. So what was just a phase?
4:04Romesh Ranganathan:So you'd just be scared? Yeah, and then it was obviously embarrassing because you're really anxious about staying. I would just be honest about that and go, I don't want to. That's incredible for a boy that age. Well, it was very difficult. No, but you're 13, 14. I wasn't 13, 14. How old were you? like 9, 10. Okay. So I'd ask the phone home. Yeah. And I'd say, is it possible to come and get me? And the friend... I'm not going to go in here because I actually think it's kind of... One of my friends... It happened a couple of times with the same friend. Yeah. Obviously, he's a little bit of a loss because the other thing is, I then go, next time I'm going to stay around and then I'm all into...
4:47Romesh Ranganathan:So you're a tease. No. So then the next time, I'm all enthusiastic. Rom, are you starting to feel funny about staying over? No, no, no. I'm totally fine. Nine o 'clock comes around. Can I find my mummy, please? Yeah, but what's sweet, though, is you weren't perturbed. You went back. Well, I was trying to get... This is a thing I didn't... I feel sorry for your friend. Yeah, me too. Because he's done nothing wrong. Yeah, but then he's become your test... Yeah. So you're practicing kissing with him. A funny story about that friend. Yeah. Many years later. Yeah. I saw him on Michael McIntyre's TV show.
5:24Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, that was him? That was him, Dylan. Wow. Yeah. And you know what? He didn't even say that secret about you on the show. No, it is great of him to not go, Ramesh used to cry when you have to stay around my house. Remember me? Yeah, that was... Or he just got... Funny memory. Ramesh used to say to everyone that he wanted to sleep. He was a bit of like a tease. And he'd go, I'm going to definitely come and stay at your house tonight. Well, we've got an idea of how you view children.
5:54Romesh Ranganathan:That's how you imagine young boys. No, you as a young boy, I can imagine you view it. Oh, cool. No, that's all right. You'd find me sexy as a young boy. No, that clears everything up. I thought it was a bit sinister and weird, but well done, mate. Got egg on my face. Absolutely outmanoeuvred me there.
6:18so you did you then just go and sit on the sofa or did you stay in the bedroom until your mum came
6:23Romesh Ranganathan:no that's the awkward bit when someone made that phone call to go home well because you know it's that thing it's very hard to sit in the bedroom with everyone else yeah then you're embarrassed because the anxiety vanishes because you know you're about to go home it's a bit like when do you know when you're agonising over if you're doing a job you really lie yeah and then you're gonna you want to call in sick because you're feeling ill yeah and you have a few if you're in a job that you feel conscientious about, sometimes you don't give a fuck. Like some jobs you just go, I'm not coming in. But some jobs you'd feel really bad about it.
6:54When I was teaching, you know, if I was ill,
6:56Romesh Ranganathan:I'd be really having this internal debate because you know the knock-on effects of not going in. So you're sort of thinking, can I go? Shall I go and shall I not? And you get really anxious about it. And then you think, I'm too ill, man. This is too bad. You phone up. The second you phone up. You start feeling better. You immediately feel better because that anxiety is gone. then you start feeling guilty about the fact that you've called in sick yeah you know there's times where i think if i didn't think it broke like it didn't make me look like a weirdo i'd phone about half an hour later and go oh actually i'm coming in i'm coming in now that's the feeling of like when you're so you'd be really anxious really anxious really anxious can i phone my mom yes mom can you come and get me as soon as she's on her way i feel so stupid and i should be able to stay around here but i you know yeah it's just a bit and i stuck it out sometimes and just didn't didn't sleep so did that happen to you as well yeah no but sometimes i'd just stick it out just to because i was too scared that's what i mean about respecting what you're doing i'd just stick it out and like you'd be feeling horrible yeah anxious all night and feeling on edge all night yeah i remember going around my my friend's house when i was a kid and his mom and dad having the the wildest, maddest argument I've ever heard two adults have.
8:10And him and his brother, I was sleeping on the floor.
8:13Romesh Ranganathan:I don't remember us being friends as kids. And he and his brother were fast asleep and I was on the floor between them. Oh my God, so they were asleep. Yeah, and I was laying there and his mum and dad started having this shout. He's a horrible little kid. Why did he say it was okay if it would stay around? He's eating us. How could somebody eat a whole box of potato waffles? but they were really shouting and screaming and at that point do you have any recollection of what the argument is about no I mean you can just hear swearing and you know and like just laying there thinking I really want to call my mum just you lying there with your little beanie on yeah just I really want to call home right now yeah but there's no part of me that feels like comfortable enough to walk downstairs I think it would be that would listen I think that's a big move to have heard all of that.
9:05Romesh Ranganathan:It's alright if I called my mum. Yeah, look, sorry to... What? What's wrong? Well, it's just that you're clearly dysfunctional.
9:15You're clearly insane. So I was going to call my mum and then as soon as I get in the car with my mum, I'd probably go to the phone box and call the police because what's happening?
9:21Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I don't think my friends are safe here. It was utterly terrible. I still remember that. And then the next day, I had to go down for breakfast and everything was seemingly fine. And then walking to school with my friend, I was like, just didn't say anything about it. But by the way, it wasn't even a fun sleepover before that. Well, yeah, it's difficult. My kids love sleepovers. I mean, obviously Theo's not doing sleepovers now, staring at his girlfriend's house. But like Charlie. See a sleepover. Charlie and Alex do sleepovers. Yeah. And they love it. And then Charlie every night sends me a good night text, right?
9:59Romesh Ranganathan:That's sweet. like even if he's in the house he'll just go goodnight dad love you when he's doing when I when he's doing a sleepover he'll remember to text me before he's about to go to sleep if he's doing a sleepover I get those texts at three in the morning wow those kids are fucking I don't know what they're up to but I wake up the next day 3.40 goodnight dad oh bless him like we've got a big day tomorrow mate yeah I don't know what you're playing at well he's an actor he's playing so I just text him back going wait till you get home you little shit Feeling short on smiles? Does your frown need to be turned upside down?
10:34Romesh Ranganathan:We got the perfect dose of comedy. 30 minutes of Scrubs. Zach Braff, Donald Faison, Sarah Chalk, and the rest of the gang at Sacred Heart are back for a brand new season. We play medical doctors who are besties. Just like in real life. And we'll definitely be up in each other's cases. Scrubs premieres Wednesday on ABC. And stream the next day on Hulu. Side effects may include laughing, cheering, and lots of high fives. You fell in love at first crunch, and now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all-white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider-sized crunch wrap.
11:11Romesh Ranganathan:But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. Or try the tortilla chip-coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The crispy chicken crunch wrap slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell.
11:27Romesh Ranganathan:it's so strange isn't it you sort of forget about it Kevin Bridges did an amazing routine about going around someone's house do you remember all that house rice yeah and then sleeping over he did such a good routine by the way in this world of stand up that's such a good routine no one else can ever do a bit about sleep going to sleep oh it's so good man so good he sort of just completed yeah alright mate fucking hell why don't you clean his ring when you're doing his podcast if he had one I'd be there yeah I bet you would Kev sorry Bob you're good it's Tom just saying mate look I know you said you'd get back to me about coming on the pod but like just whenever you need me mate like I know you haven't got a pod yet just to reiterate you've got a guest here bruv yeah as soon as it happens what I thought I might do I know you haven't got a podcast I might I'm gonna the next voice note is gonna be what I would do on your podcast if you had one and I'm more than happy to sort of big you up as much as you need I can do quotes from some of your shows that's how I sort of first met Ramesh was very much in this way it's such a weird thing I always think about that when like when the boys have friends over you just think of it as like they're just in your house but they're entering a whole new what like there's all this different set of expectations the family does stuff differently like it's just a completely different thing like something like sometimes actually you know when you go you go hang out with another couple and the way they speak to each other sometimes you're surprised about it's like we all have we all fall into these individual sets of codes of conduct do you mean that you kind of agree yeah and then suddenly you're like what the fuck so then when you're a kid it starts that's when it starts you go to someone's house and you go shit this is how they do different dinners yeah yeah I remember like I used to go around to this kid's house he's got his Turkish origin kid and his mom was um his mom obviously was Turkish and she I don't know she fully understood the ramifications what she was doing but we I used to go around there when we're eight or nine she'd let us drink beer really yeah I don't think I think he was just pulling a fast one and he'd go oh can we get some like tenants and then I'd go round there we'd have fish fingers and chips and beer and a pint of beer Jesus I remember there was a boy I was at school with and he was Nigerian and like I remember how strict his mum was please let this be relevant to the story no but I just remember going and loving I don't think the Turkish was relevant to the story, was it?
13:48No, no, but I loved going around.
13:50Romesh Ranganathan:I don't think it was. I think I'm a racist. I loved going around his house because I just loved the vibe there. Yeah. Do you know this is the one that there was like, there was one of our mates, because I'm going to be really careful not to at school, there was like, what do they call it? Like a rumour that goes around. Gossip? No, not gossip. You know, like it's a, I can't remember the fucking name. I'm too tired to think of it. No sleep this week. Whisper of East Asian origin. Yeah. no no no no no no it's like it's like so basically if I tell you get what it is I got my brains gone I think about we were two years ago but it's sort of decline he thought people go have you been around so I'm really working hard not to name him have you if you've been my son says for a sleepover it's hard doing that his mum walks around in really sexy lingerie and I was like what and it's yeah apparently like this one of my mates went yeah basically I want a cup at 3 in the morning and his mum was there and she was just wearing sexy underwear.
14:49Where was his mum at 3 in the morning? In the living room and they were all sleeping and he said, we still had that one. Sorry,
14:56Romesh Ranganathan:sorry, sorry, sorry, hold on a second. So the kids are all asleep in the living room and she's wandering around in sexy lingerie at 3am. This is, so this is what I'm saying about like, what people call this sort of story. I can't fucking know. Urban myth? Yes. Urban legend. Right, urban legend, yeah. So he's like, yeah, so, and he was whispering it was a bit like Jay Cartwright I guess in a way from in between she's like I woke up and she's just you know she's in her sexy lingerie and she's just walking around I went like this yeah I thought do I know am I doing a bit now or am I fucking really in on this story that's exactly well that's what we were all like what yeah and and she just you know and she just left some little bits of midnight snacks some chocolate bars and stuff.
15:44So she came in in her lingerie and dropped off some snacks. Yeah. So that became a thing of like, oh yeah, everyone started becoming friends with this guy to go around and have a sleepover at his house. And then about two or three other people went round and said like similar stories. You know, one that was, that she made their cereal the next morning and she was in like sexy lingerie and high heels. High heels? Yeah, like. Yeah, I think there's a bit of embellishment now. Yeah, but when you'd see his mum at the school drop off, she was quite a meek sort of sweet woman. But then, you never know, do you?
16:15Did you ever go round? I got invited round once. Why didn't you go round? I went round there.
16:20Romesh Ranganathan:You used to tell me that you were the biggest pervert in school. That was my brag. Oh, I'm Tom Davis, by the way. I'm an ex-scaffold. I'm trying to be a stand-up. By the way, I was the biggest pervert in my school when I was 12. I know what you're thinking. Was I the biggest pervert in school at 12? Just a bit. That was disgusting.
16:45yeah but there was nothing like that when I went round but then like the other boys
16:49Romesh Ranganathan:I bet you were going just getting to bed going oh it's such a shame to go to bed peckish I reckon I want something about 3am I'm quite open minded I don't scare easy never called my mum at one of these before but there was no but nothing happened so then did you then go around telling people that yeah I was like nothing happened yeah but also by the way all this is going on behind his back yeah I actually think that's a decent thing to do because it's the same boy whose dad used to put on there was an old movie called Blue Lagoon do you remember it? yeah it was like a soft soft erotica so he used to put that on for people to watch when they went round what the fuck are you talking about?
17:35this is true so they used to watch that
17:39Romesh Ranganathan:and hold on hold on he put it on for the kids yeah you'd go around there so you'd have and sorry mate because this is sounding a bit fucking yes it's true this is sounding like two people working in cahoots did all the kids come out of there yeah did any of them like licking their chops or anything you know what it's like the dad puts on blue lagoon and then the mum at 3am is wandering around the living room in lingerie yeah but this is the one thing about the lingerie thing is I'm still it was it was a very specific sort of lad that was going around I'm not 100 % sure whether that happened but then that could be me being better because it's like which kid's downstairs oh it's Tom Davis yeah I think I'll stay in bed for that one I'll just throw some biscuits down the stairs
18:32he ate his dinner at the dog bowl he'll be alright
18:37yes we're putting on the whole blue lagoon aren't we nah we'll be alright no actually no
18:43Romesh Ranganathan:let's put on a documentary let's put a sedative put a sedative in the fucking pudding stick on a couple of episodes of the A team I think you'll be alright I want that animal out cold are you sure you want to call your mum you must be feeling a bit hoesit yeah it made you feel a little bit too welcome um yeah should we just drop you back just in case yeah it's a bizarre thing yeah well that is mad yeah but loads of people people were queuing up and he was a really like yeah he's quite a sort of sad lad but people were queuing up to stay at his house Jesus yeah years later I went around there to watch the Mike Tyson fight like what Mike Tyson fight yeah what a cool addendum to that story well done mate still his mum didn't yeah still his mum didn't what no yeah alright yeah did you stay over then yeah we all slept around there oh that's nice but 12 of us yeah How old are you then?
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19:41Romesh Ranganathan:How old has you been? 16? 16, 17, yeah. Was it the Tyson Bruno fight? Yeah, pretty, yeah. Because that's when Jim and the Sky magazine had the little scorecard on the front. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Frank Bruno had been like really talking that fight up, hadn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I invited a load of mates around to my house then. Mum was wearing something slinky. Shanty walking around in the phone.
20:04Shanty's a ring girl. Round number three. just walking around the bedroom.
20:11Romesh Ranganathan:No, I did have a load of mates around for that fight. Did you? Did they sleep over? I don't think they did, actually, because they all lived quite walking distance from my house. That was like three, four in the morning. Yeah. That's how we rolled. Wow. Feeling short on smiles? Does your frown need to be turned upside down? We got the perfect dose of comedy. 30 minutes of scrubs. Zach Braff, Donald Faison, Sarah Chalk, and the rest of the gang at Sacred Heart are back for a brand new season. We play medical doctors who are besties. Just like in real life. And we'll definitely be up in each other's cases.
20:45Romesh Ranganathan:Scrubs premieres Wednesday on ABC. And stream the next day on Hulu. Side effects may include laughing, cheering, and lots of high fives. Hello, Superman. You fell in love at First Crunch, and now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all-white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider-sized crunch wrap. But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. Or try the tortilla chip-coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The crispy chicken crunch-wrapped slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. But I mean, I suppose you're a couple of years old.
21:22You'd have been 20, 21 at that point. Fuck off.
21:25Romesh Ranganathan:Fuck off, you little fucking piece of shit. I remember once I was at somebody's house. Yeah. At a kid's house, when I was a kid. And he wanted to go for a bike ride. Yeah. so I went for a bike ride in the woods and he was just being a bit of a knob right as in like what he would do is because I didn't know the way he would keep riding off ahead and like for a joke leaving me sort of stranded yeah and so then eventually I'd find him or whatever and then he kept doing it right and he's just getting on my nerves and then what at one point he was like there was just like two routes and one of them I think I'm remember this right one of them was just like fucking swamp like it was awful and the other was like quite clear and i said should we just go up here because like that's yeah and he goes no i want to go and he started to make a point of it i want to go up here i think this is a better bike ride and go i don't really want to get covered in crap so can we just go this way he goes no we're going this way and he rode off ahead and like powered through to try and force the issue so i just got fucked off and i rode back to his house right i was like fuck this man this guy's doing my head because he'd gone off flight for ages yeah so i went back to his house and i thought he'd clock and then just come back to the house and then we could just squash it or whatever yeah anyway i was back at his house and his mom was like um oh where's where is he where's nathan yeah where's nathan and i just said oh um oh i just said i was going to come back to get because i was thinking what the fuck do i say oh my god you covered your tracks like a murderer but i just thought you're i can't say your son's a fucking helmet so i just left him you could say that oh he he wanted to go further in the woods down a track that I didn't feel comfortable going down, so I've come back home.
22:58Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, all right. And then she'd go, oh, wow, are you a 30-year-old man in an 11-year-old's body? Yeah, but that's what you obviously were. Yeah, I wouldn't express it like that. Sorry, but unfortunately, your son wasn't properly respecting the choices I was making on the bike ride. That's better than coming back and throwing him under the bus. Why did I throw him under the bus? Well, no, you come back and go. I thought he was going to come back in a bit. Well, okay. At that point, I thought he was going to come back. I don't know where this story's going. Anyway, 45 minutes goes by. He's not back.
23:24Romesh Ranganathan:Wow. So I think, fuck off. The mum's going out of her mind? Not really. She didn't give a shit. Not in that way. She's pretty chilled about it. I don't mean she didn't give a shit about her son. Crocodile tears on a news conference type thing. No, I think if he was missing, she would genuinely be upset. It's a fucking mad place to take this. Okay, I'm just saying. Yeah. Yeah, 45 minutes and no one's heard from him. How old are you? I must have been 11, 12. 45 minutes? That's nearly an hour and no one's heard from him. He's on his own in the woods. Yeah. I mean, it's daytime. and the woods are like quite close to his house I've managed I've managed to find my don't look at John for verification John's of what do you think John do you think that's a long time an hour an 11 year old yeah four to five minutes 45 I thought you said no I'm just fucking with you 45 minutes or half I don't listen I was fucking 12 I don't remember it might have been 10 minutes you got no idea have you six weeks used to feel like three millennia I don't know I don't know he was gone for a while okay well it feels now as you're backing down I'm not backing down but it's like you say that Charlie now went for an hour in the woods and his friends come back to the house and Charlie's not going to see me.
24:27It probably wasn't an hour. Okay. That's what I'm saying. All right.
24:30Romesh Ranganathan:But it's the friend coming back that makes it worrying, right? Yeah. If the friend comes back and is like, I've come back for a drink and you're like, where's Nathan? But I've not got his head in the carrier. No, no, but they're like, where's Nathan? And you're like, oh, he's just, he's decided to go on a little bit further. Yeah. It's like fucking Oates in fucking Captain Scott going outside. There might be some time. You know, look at the watch guys. It's so impossible to predict
24:52yet and you're like no anyway after a bit I think I've got to go get him okay so I get back on the bike did you by the way make a big thing of this no okay so that looks like you've run away twice where is he Nathan's not back half drunk glass of Robinson's so what you think they might think I've murdered him and then ridden off or you've had an argument and you pit him and because you didn't know your own strength what like Lenny from mice and men yeah so you go
25:26Romesh Ranganathan:about looking for him I go about looking for him anyway as I'm approaching the woods I hear intense sobbing oh my god and I get to the woods and he's just going Romesh Romesh where are you and he thinks he's just lost me in the woods Wow and then oh my god this is a horrible story it gets worse because I didn't have the hearts like he was fucking crying man oh no well what do you think would you i know what do you think i went home and left him there he's crying in the woods on his own yeah then i've come back no no so you heard him crying and you didn't go to no i did i did i went to him but so i get there he's sobbing he's looking for me he must have found out this truth afterwards and then I go, where the hell have you been, man?
26:15Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
26:23Oh, my God. And he's literally, what a good friend, by the way. Absolutely devastated. Yeah, really sad. You've come to some harm. I've been at home. You're sitting there watching the Thundercats with a glass of squash and some biscuits while Mrs. Jackson's walk parading around for you. I could do another spin in the room, would you, Mrs. Jackson?
26:44Romesh Ranganathan:it's bad isn't it and also he would have found out that wasn't the case yeah of course later on yeah you come back home and you know the friendship quickly dissolved pretty soon after that were you close that was my first experience of somebody being a bit too thirsty in a friendship I'd love to say it was my last
27:03Romesh Ranganathan:so what happened was is he kept wanting to hang out all the time
27:11Romesh Ranganathan:I'm being serious now this is not a bit.
27:17Romesh Ranganathan:He kept wanting to hang out all the time. Yeah. And it started to get a little bit. Yeah. Did you ever have that with people? Like that? Not that way around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I had, so he was like a bit full on. Yeah. And so basically naturally rather than, I didn't know that's what I was, I didn't, I'm not realizing as a kid that this, he's being too full on. That's why I'm being pushed. I just think to myself, I don't want to hang out with it. Do you know what I mean? Like you're feeling pushed away, but you don't know. I don't have the understanding to think why that is. And then he starts to get more upset that I'm suddenly kind of, he's getting a bit like a bit funny about the fact I'm not knocking about him as much.
27:58Romesh Ranganathan:And so he, then he came up to me one day and he said, my dad says that I should just give you a bit of space. And then it's really, it really got quite, because he was obviously, from his point of view... You're like, by the way, so you're aspirational for him as a friend. No, I don't think... Come on, you must be. As someone who's been an underling in friendships. No, I'm an underling. I'm a bear. Not in a situation. I've been in situations where someone might have been a bit keen, never to the point where someone's ever felt like they're sobbing in the woods because they can't find me. Well, I think that was particularly...
28:36That was totally engineered by my lack of consideration. To go to your parents and the parents be like, you know, look, you know, you love Robert, maybe just give him a bit of space. That is quite, that's telling of that. That's such a sweet, look, by the way, I'm not throwing you under, you're a fucking 12. Do you know what I mean?
28:56Romesh Ranganathan:Look, I was, you know, whenever you start doing podcasts, you think I'm undoubtedly going to say something that will eventually get me cancelled. I did not think it would be a story from when I went on a bike ride at 12 years old that would be my undoing. But here we are. No, but so how did it end? How did this romance end? I was a prick. I just stopped hanging out with him. It's the honest truth. There's a couple of other things that happened. Like when he'd come around to my house and we were going to the cinema and my brother didn't have anything to do. And so Din would be going, can I, you know, he's like annoying little brother.
29:32Romesh Ranganathan:Can I come? Can I come? And then mum would go, look, can you take him? and then my mate would go, we'd actually rather he didn't come with us. Okay. And even though I sort of didn't want Din to, you know, like it's not, no disrespect to Din, but like. But we're talking about 10 year old Din. Yeah. And so even though I sort of didn't want Din to come because I wanted to just, I still thought that was, that still bumped me that he would say that. Do you know what I mean? I found that a bit, like I don't, I didn't get why he was doing that. So all of those little things were like, so it wasn't like I didn't go, I didn't go, I don't want to hang out with you anymore.
30:05Romesh Ranganathan:I just didn't. He had a crush on you. not in a sexual way but like you know it got when we made up in the woods it got a bit like that I had a weird thing when we were on holiday this year go on this is incredible I tell a story about when I'm on a bike ride at 12 and Tom thinks what equivalent story do I have this year no no no hear the story okay okay in Portugal
30:33Catherine's in a wheelchair and it's weird to snigger before you say that no because it was a weird situation so I'm being a bit punchy I'm sorry about that you know why you feel vulnerable
30:43Romesh Ranganathan:I do Tom do you know what you are so fucking you're so right I've gone I've got a story where I look bad and now I fucking yeah yeah and now what you're doing is doubling down on being yeah horrible yeah and that's how bullying starts you know well that's how it finished for that let's do a little reset huh you didn't bully him did you did you just quickly because you think I'm a bully I don't think you're a bully but I think also boys of that age everyone's got a horrible yeah and and also we're talking about high school in the 90s right so it's kill or be killed sure and you and him have got a sweet little friendship yeah all of a sudden everyone's like hey why aren't you hanging around with Nathan anymore and you're like oh yeah we cried in the woods because I went missing no I didn't do that okay good I didn't do that I did not do that that's good um all right yeah tell me the story so anyway we go into the hotel lobby and this voice goes Oi Tom big man Tom and I'm like you know I look around and it's just Stuart this guy Stuart White Stuart White was like the coolest kid he joined our school late in our sort of first school primary school totally cool for you to give the full name is it yeah because even now you know the thing of like and I was kind of a Nathan to his Womish he was like he joined our school I'd sort of I guess I was a sort of goofy kid I wasn't like a cool you know probably by some reason you had a coolness about you I didn't have a coolness when Stuart White joined the school Stuart White was everyone was like this guy's joined the school he had a coolness about him he's so confident good at football and for whatever reason Stuart White sexy yeah good looking you know picking all the girls even in three years above Stuart White's name rang out really yeah he was so Three years above, he's got that level of riz.
32:34He wore a pinky ring. Right. Yeah. I think he literally, you know, he wore loafers to school. He just had that vibe to him. Crazy. Anyway, for whatever reason, Stuart White, out of nowhere, was looking for friends to make, new friends at school, and he picked big, stupid Tom Davis. Amazing. We hit it off. Yeah. Stuart White, I'm like, literally like, I was invited to his house for a sleepover. I'm like, whew, wow. Do you know what I mean? Went to his house, lovely new build. anyhow Stuart White was at school went for most primary school we start secondary school he does I think a year and a half two years in secondary school and then he moves to maybe St.
33:09Beds or somewhere goes to another secondary I'm devastated yeah he's the coolest because that must have been
33:14Romesh Ranganathan:your ticket to everybody respecting yeah the older sister who was really cool he just had a vibe about it and I was quite happy very much like in my life now very happy about being known as just Stuart White's friend in the same way I'm very happy to be known as Romesh Ranganathan's friend as you would do if we were in a car accident where we both died
33:33so and then stuart white leaves out of nowhere right right haven't heard terrible terrible for you yeah my stock at school goes fucking down all of a sudden i'm like oh shit like you know a bit like i don't know nemo i'm finding i've got fuck i've got nothing here i've floundered that's another fish in them jesus christ so i'm like yeah okay my mind would whisk off to shit white every now and again what did he do what did he go into i see him in this hotel and straight away i become 12 year old tom davis and he's so sweet he's sound as a pound i mean he still just i think thinks my wife is in a wheelchair but he doesn't quite realize that she just had quite a bad accident and was in one for the weekend um but then i'd see him around and then he would uh he would just sort of like come over and start chatting to me and you know literally I don't know what it is we've moved on I'm relatively successful in my own life in my own right but being around Stuart White I became you went back to the oh I went back to that kid again yeah yeah and my wife was like you don't have to go and say hello to him every morning but I was like I was like I feel the same way sometimes I've read that
34:40Romesh Ranganathan:I think that is such a great and he by the way was as low but what I'm saying about Stuart White he was a good guy okay alright Tom yeah he does yeah are you in touch with us do you exchange numbers no Facebook Facebook yeah when like you know like there were people in I don't know if you had this I think everyone had this where there was like the hottest bloke in your year group the hottest girl or whatever yeah and like there was a group there was an elite group of which I was obviously never quite a certain thing you were a lot higher up the echolons no I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't anyway I am when you bump into those people now they immediately switched immediately you're back in that dynamic it's so mad but can I say most of the time those people weren't particularly nice yeah there's a lot of it I don't think that's their fault actually no no no because I think there's a certain stigma and there's a certain pressure being put on being the coolest yeah and you've got to be like like you sort of think you know power corrupts yeah adults right so if you're a kid and you've got like this status in your school yeah the idea that you would still be chill and all that is just pretty unlikely I remember when I did my Brighton last tour show.
35:55Yeah. And before, I don't know if I've talked about this on the end before. And what someone from my secondary school texted me, who was not a bully, but they were cool. They were never particularly nice to me. And then they texted me, said, I'm at the show. You know, good luck. I'm always proud to see you smashing it. There's nothing at all aggressive or anything in the text. But a part of me became terrified of them being in the audience. Yeah. Like, you know, there's whatever how many people are out there. Yeah, but now suddenly you're back to bait up. I literally was fucking... You're baited.
36:27I literally was out of sight, and all I could think of it was that I was going to walk out, and it would just be them sitting there going, oh, well, you've got... Yeah. Say this is what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's so bizarre that that is a... Is that a callback? Yeah. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, you fucking fat wally. It's such a weird thing. I bet...
36:48Romesh Ranganathan:Is it a bloke? Yeah. I bet his recollection of your dynamic is completely different to yours I bet he probably thinks you're just mates do you know what I mean but I think that's the thing isn't it but that's also a trend of what people not to say just all bullies but that's what trend like people forget details and we're all culpable of that yeah but like you say you sort of don't know what your role is in another school do you know what I mean for all I know there's like a there's like some kid that's like every time they see me on something they go he was such a fucking probably Nathan yeah Nathan will sit there Nathan and go Stuart White though said to me he went you haven't changed since school did he say that yeah and I just thought sadly no but that's a compliment yeah it was because you were mates yeah we were mates yeah it was sweet but in my head I'm like you're one of the nicest human beings but I genuinely was like no I probably haven't changed enough but yeah but that was one of the few times where I'm like that's a real positive but that's also like I think you know where you're like when I look at the incident with someone like Nathan though that is the thing that's the trickiest time because like you haven't got the weather rule there to think about how to deal with a situation like that because what he's done is quite the whole thing with Dinesh the whole thing with the bike because that's essentially what he's doing is an element of power play in your relationship right?
38:11Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah I just think it's a bit I don't know I found it a bit uncomfortable I'm very I wasn't into that what the story that you told or the fact that happened well I don't like the story I don't know how I come across in that story yeah but we've all done we've all been but it's part of the thing where every now and again I think about something I did that was a bit dickish as a child yeah and then when you think about the nature versus nurture thing I'd like to think that was a nice guy now I try and be a nice person yeah but we've all been but then part of you do you ever think to yourself at my core maybe I'm horrible no because I think that I think I think genuinely I think it's only really psychopath psychopathic fucking horrible pieces of work that don't look and go I'm a helmet or I've been a dickhead we've all been a dickhead I can't sit here now yeah that's just talking about shit there's been times where I look back and go fucking hell I could have been better there could have handled something myself better I could have been nicer I could have been all of us think but I think there's people like you and me that you sort of reflect on it and go I'm going to try and be better than that and then you've got people that it doesn't even register for and you just think you are just fucked like john john's i mean john's a real bully yeah this has been a lot more emotional than i thought this this journey i actually think we walk the line between emotion and humor and everything in between yeah i i pretty poorly what would you if you could see nathan now right let's just just pay one last thing out yeah if that's okay right is this a role play yeah okay how many characters how many characters I'm only going to be Nathan maybe his wife or husband I bump into you now yeah so where are we coming out of a cinema coming out of a cinema what have you been watching Marvel some sort of one of your superhero films yeah sure okay I've never been able to whistle it's one of the things that annoys me most about myself no I can't talk to him
40:18sorry um okay i can't believe i drank a whole big coke and ate a whole big popcorn on my own oh you're such um nathan oh wow it's romesh yeah i know yeah hi how you doing man i haven't seen you for ages yeah what you've been up to well i've seen you on tv bloody hell you smashed it mate Well, I don't know. You're always funny. I told you I knew him. Bloody absolute legend. How are you? Yeah, good.
40:42Romesh Ranganathan:It's good to see you, mate. You don't look any different, really. I'm obviously a bit bigger, isn't I? Well, yeah, I'm a little bit bigger. Yeah. I lost a few more strands of hair, let me tell you. Well, you look a lot. You're still holding on to it. Quite a few out of them, bloody trying to get hold of you. Yeah, nah. Were you trying to get hold of me? Yeah, no, back at school. I was joking. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I work for Ryman's now. Do you? What are you doing there? why is that so funny Nathan area manager oh yeah started off just is this your wife yeah yeah yeah for her sins no she's beautiful good name Clarissa Clarissa hi Chris we know you are Nathan says you and he were best friends yeah yeah he He said about the time in the woods.
41:36Yeah, I was a bit of a prick back then. Sorry. No, he said you weren't missing. Huh? No one could find you for an hour. Everyone was worried about you. And then Nathan tracked you down using his scouting skills and found you.
41:50Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, it was pretty incredible, actually. You're bloody lucky to have him. Well, if she ever goes missing, I'll try and find her. Yeah, well, let's hope she doesn't. Eh, Nathan? It's a weird thing to say. Yeah, I know. So, yeah. So, probably TV. Yeah. I was so surprised. I always knew you were headed for the stars. Yeah. Could you remember that song that you used to sing at school? What was that? You used to do the rapping. Fuck off, Nathan. You're a little c***. Yep. Used to do the singing. Now, what song are you talking about? Used to do the singing, didn't you? All the bloody rap stuff. You absolutely loved it.
42:24I didn't do any. I don't remember that. Oh, maybe I'm just remembering because I'm a journalist. I'm a biography, which I wasn't mentioned in, me lord.
42:33Romesh Ranganathan:anyway man I'm gonna I'm gonna head off but look hit me up on Instagram or something really yeah sure sure cuz how things went down things went down a friendship I thought you probably didn't ever want to be friends with me again do you mean 36 years ago yeah well we're not gonna you know just hit me up man we get to catch up or something well like hang out and stuff yeah sure I've got like a kid who's at the same age as Charlie and my daughter because I've read your biography and stuff. And my daughter, Vanessa, is the same age as young Theo. So I haven't got a kid of Alex's age, but my nephew is about the same age.
43:09You don't have to bring a nephew. Don't worry about that. Yeah, I was just saying. It's weird how we've got kids at the same age. It's almost like we're on the same, you know, sex thing. The same sex thing? We have sex at the same time.
43:21Romesh Ranganathan:At the same time, yeah. That's mad. So no, no, yeah. Yeah, anyway, hit me up on Instagram. So yeah, definitely. I mean, I'll get your number. Any chance? Pardon? You're getting your number? Can you give me a call? Yeah, sure, man. Okay. It's 76-198. Shall I call it now? My battery's dead, unfortunately. Oh, I'll just try it on your watch. Well, it's not an Apple Watch. Oh, wow, look at that watch. You are doing well. We can see your house in Crawley from our flat. You can see it from your flat? Yeah. Well, your flat must be in one of the trees nearby then. No, we can see your house.
44:03center of Crawley but if we look out anyway I've got to go man but it's lovely to see you I'll hit you up on Instagram for sure definitely man hey and don't worry about apologizing you know I get it cool alright man take care hey see you around
44:19Romesh Ranganathan:yeah absolutely see you Lisa that's it it was nice yeah it was nice yeah could bring yourself some apologizing I don't think I would I don't think I would stay in touch based on that interaction okay here's your three for today okay I'm not quite emotional about that bike ride like right lingerie and chicken hmm there are many ways to get to the destination I wonder what the mode of travel will be in which your central star is. You can get there by helicopter, airplane, by car. Yeah, by riding a bike. Truth is, we're all looking for something different. Some of us are looking for some kind of resolve for past memories, things that have gone wrong, things that went right.
45:26A slap on the back from an old friend to say, hey buddy you just killed it you nailed it a kiss from an ex or a handshake with a guy that maybe you could have been better to sat down and played a chicken just to scoff back like jesus and his disciples on that last supper hey you've done okay buddy thank you i'm cracking on truth is sometimes we never get that resolve sometimes we never get that finish line sometimes we're aimlessly just bumbling around looking for it. Like a young boy going to his best friend's house. Home see, a little glimpse of his mum in lingerie. Some things are just a story.
46:03A story without an end we'll ever find. What do we keep doing? Reading another chapter? Or closing the book? And saying, you know what? That's a tale for another day. Thank you.
46:17Romesh Ranganathan:Thank you so much for listening to... Shout out, Nathan. And watching the Wolf on Out podcast. Emails to wolfoutpod.gmail.com. We will see you on the email episode. Peace out. Nathan, get in touch. Sure. Keep it real.
46:50Romesh Ranganathan:Sarah Chalk and the rest of the gang at Sacred Heart are back for a brand new season. We play medical doctors who are besties. Just like in real life. And we'll definitely be up in each other's cases. Scrubs premieres Wednesday on ABC. And stream the next day on Hulu. Side effects may include laughing, cheering, and lots of high fives. Hello, Superman. Hello. Look what TJ Maxx dragged in. The Devil Wears Prada 2 is now streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu. We are digital, we are downloadable, we are streamable. The fashion event of the year is certified fresh. Pull yourself together, we have work to do.
47:28Critics say it's smart and witty, and the perfect sequel.
47:32Romesh Ranganathan:That's all. Get runway ready for The Devil Wears Prada 2 on Disney Plus and Hulu. Rated PG-13.
From the publisher
What was going on at the boys' high school sleepovers?!
In this episode of Wolf & Owl, Romesh and Tom take a trip back to their childhoods and reveal some of the strange, awkward, and occasionally traumatic experiences that came with high school friendships.
From imbalanced friend dynamics to outright strange parents and school rumours, the guys cover it all. Tom reflects on how our past teenage selves can still make an appearance today after bumping into people from high school, and Romesh deals with some old guilt, hopefully fixed by an inspired guided role play from Tom.
It's a week of reflections from Wolf & Owl. Don't miss it!
A Ranga Bee Production in partnership with Platform Media.
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:55 Childhood sleepover memories
11:27 Rom’s unaged drinking story
12:40 Tom’s sexy sleepover rumour
16:28 A Blue Lagoon issue
19:38 Rom’s friend went missing (briefly)
28:28 Resorting back to being a kid
37:47 A high school throwback role play
42:46 Tom's Outro
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