How to reverse engineer your best skin ever: science-based skincare before Botox with Natalie O'Neill | Future Self Series Ep. 9

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0:43what is up i'm grace beverly and welcome back to working hard the podcast shape guidebook on how to improve your own life and achieve what you actually dreamed of doing because life's too short for boring podcasts and bad advice what is up guys and welcome back to working hard We have come to the end of part two now of the future self series. So we are rounding up all the tips on exactly how to execute your future self plan. If you are new here though, you have arrived just over halfway through this series I am doing during my maternity leave. And this is all built on one idea that you can build the life you want by reverse engineering it.

1:20So starting at the end, picturing who you want to be and the life you want to have and working backwards. So we've been breaking it down topic by topic. and today is a very important one. I'm going to be honest with you about why I wanted to make this episode. If you've followed me for a while you will probably already know that I have had many skin struggles and acne struggles over the last decade and luckily I've managed to heal a lot of that through changing my diet, finding supplements that work for me, lifestyle changes, finding which treatments work best but since I have been pregnant and my hormones have shifted my skin really started to struggle again and then I started to notice things that I kind of hadn't before.

1:58Nothing crazy but I found myself in a bit of like a comparison rut so overanalyzing any new potential wrinkle or spot or mark or line that I spotted in the mirror and that really got me thinking about whether there's something that I should be doing now in my 20s to prevent as much as possible further drama with my skin down the line and then I realised kind of after talking to my friends that almost everyone I knew at this stage of life was having some version of the same thoughts and maybe a little bit of the same panic because I want to be real aging and bad periods with your skin are inevitable and side note I think aging is actually something we should be very grateful for as it obviously shows we've lived a longer and hopefully happy life but that is not always easy to do in practice like that is a lovely thought but do I always feel positive about my skin and various different things around it no so that is what today is going to be about the wider kind of approach to how to build a skincare routine that works strategically for you so that the decisions you make now in your 20s can have a compounding effect for years to come.

2:57Now I want to be really really clear, this episode isn't about telling you what you should or shouldn't do with your skincare or your face and I really really don't want to come across like aging is something to fear, it's as I've said the opposite. But I wanted us to make this episode to allow you to decide on your own terms in a calm and measured way how you go about building your own routine or choosing the treatments that work for you so that by the time you get to later life you feel grateful for the decisions you made in your past. I feel like so much of the beauty industry relies on us panicking, reacting, making impulse decisions and I wanted us to maybe take some of that control back and I think the key reframing of this topic that I really wanted to explore in this episode is that most of us treat skincare and beauty as a reaction to something you need to fix right now but I really want us to think with our reverse engineering hats on and to look at it as a long game instead And to take us through it all, I've got the perfect person.

3:48Natalie O 'Neill is one of the UK's most influential skincare experts, with a following of one and a half million and a blog that has 150 ,000 readers per month. Natalie's obsession with skincare started over a decade ago, and from there she's taught herself everything, from reading all about cosmetic science to skincare ingredient breakdowns online. And soon enough, she became the go-to skin person for everyone in her life before she was doing any of this publicly. And now thankfully she shares all this information with us online, from retinoids to skincare for people with PCOS. I think one of the things I love most about her approach is that it's very evidence-based.

4:21She cuts straight through the marketing and very much gives her audience advice based on the science and is brutally honest about what works and what is a waste of your time and money, which in this industry, I would say is pretty rare. And as with all of these episodes, we have extra homework for you in the newsletter. She has given me her list of ride or die products, which is gonna be in the Working Hard newsletter tomorrow, if you are listening to this on the day it goes live. So I will put the link for the newsletter in the description. So if you feel like you need the world of skincare demystified, this episode was designed for you.

4:55The skincare space is only getting more and more overwhelming. Brands are constantly churning out new products and overselling the importance of certain active ingredients, making you feel like you need all of them or else you'll fall behind. But to be brutally honest, it is all much, much simpler than that. The experts, dermatologists, scientists have already done the work for you years and years ago, and the science doesn't move as quickly as the skincare industry does. That means for you and I that the skincare with the active ingredients that are scientifically proven to prevent and reverse premature aging haven't really changed in decades.

5:26So if you want the absolute best results from your skincare routine before you add in treatments or consider adding in treatments, this is the episode for you. And here's what we're going to cover in the next 20 minutes. Firstly, how to play the long game in skincare by building the right foundations before you look at tweakments like filler and Botox. Secondly, a step-by-step rundown of essential skincare habits, sunscreen, sleep, hydration, consistency, and the evidence behind them. Thirdly, a deeper dive into Botox, how expression creates permanent creases over time, why some people are more prone to it, for example, genetics and expressiveness.

5:58Fourthly, why skincare habits built in your 20s will compound over decades. Fifthly, and now I regret adding numbers because this sounds awkward, what the science says about how diet and lifestyle can influence our skin. And lastly, a future self exercise. So putting all of this together to reverse engineer your best ever skin. So there is a lot of useless skincare on the internet. I am all too familiar with that. So it's easy to think that the only things worth investing in are expensive treatments. But you would be hard pressed to find an esthetician or a dermatologist who won't tell you that a good skincare routine makes seeing results 1000 times more likely.

6:30So before you get lost in the sea of gimmicky skincare products that you see online, let's focus in on some active ingredients with real scientific backing that you can incorporate into your routine starting from today. So we're going to start with what they do, how they work, because I think it's always helpful to know how something works if you're going to use it to want to see results and why they'll help you reverse engineer your best skin ever for your future self. Because playing the long game in skincare means using the right products consistently over a long period of time. A lot of people use the right products in the wrong way and they're not going to see results in that way.

7:01real skincare results the results we are all looking to see they take time to achieve and anything promising overnight results is usually a lie so starting with retinoids because retinoids are probably something you hear about every single day on the internet i talk a lot about retinoids on my channels because they genuinely genuinely changed my life i used to be a slave to a 10-step skincare routine thinking that that was the only way i was going to get the results that i wanted until i learned about how retinoids work and they blew everything else out of the water for me and now half of the active ingredients I used to use I don't use at all anymore because I get it all from my retinoids.

7:34Retinoids are the gold standard topical treatment for acne and premature aging. They are one of the only ingredients on social media that are viral for the right reasons. You can believe the hype with retinoids and I don't think a lot of people realise that. I think a lot of people are sceptical of them but they are one of the only science-backed ingredients and that's why we're talking about them today. Retinoids work by speeding up skin cell turnover which is something that cannot be said for a lot of skincare products and active ingredients. I always liken this to being at the airport when you're walking to a terminal versus somebody who's on a travelator which is like one of those moving walking belts.

8:05When you're not using retinoid your skin cell cycle is still turning over but anybody on a travelator is just getting there faster because retinoids put your skin cell turnover on overdrive in the best possible way. It sounds like a scary thing, it's a really good thing. Essentially if you're using retinoid your skin is now renewing itself much faster than it normally would and it's also boosting collagen production more significantly than any other topical. There are not many topical products that do that and a retinoid is scientifically proven to do that and I don't think enough people realise that.

8:32One fact that I love about retinoids and I often use when I'm explaining them to people is that retinoids were originally an acne treatment but decades into using them researchers started to realise that acne patients who were using them were ageing remarkably better than everybody else and that's how they came to earn their place as an anti-ageing treatment which is interesting because so many people think of retinoids exclusively for older skin or mature skin but actually they were primarily for acne-prone skin so lots of teenagers will be using them without even realizing it. So the great news is that they are amazing for acne sufferers too.

9:04They are literally the perfect combination for anyone wanting genuinely incredible skin results because they're tackling the aging, the collagen production, sun damage and acne all in one product which is why I keep going on and on about them. The same can't be said for salicylic acid or alpha hydroxy acid, copper peptides or anything that is currently trending or that they are commonly compared to. They win by a mile when it comes to performance and research and it's why I will always be a true retinoid stan. You will not stop hearing me talk about them. So if retinoids are helping your skin produce more collagen, sunscreens are working in synergy with retinoids to prevent your existing collagen from breaking down.

9:39So you're tackling it from both angles if you're using a retinoid and sunscreen. And one of the main reasons people turn to Botox is because their skin has lost elasticity over the years due to collagen breakdown from aging just in general and from the sun and what I think a lot of people don't realize is that the more expressive you are and the less elastic your skin is the more likely you're going to develop permanent lines which by the way are perfectly normal the goal is not to eradicate all lines from our faces the way that I like to approach skincare though is by understanding everything that's at play so we have the sunscreen to prevent collagen breakdown the retinoid to boost it and the understanding of why skin loses elasticity in the first place and I want to be completely clear that Botox in 2026 often doesn't feel like a choice but it absolutely is and that's why we're doing this episode to give you all of the information you need to make that choice for yourself without feeling peer pressured by social media.

10:29And I just know there will be so many people listening to this episode who are feeling the pressure so if you're somebody who is considering Botox but wants to know that they have done absolutely everything they can with their skincare routine you will want to be maintaining as much of your collagen as possible every single day through your skincare routine. Sunscreen and retinoids therefore go hand in hand in achieving this. No matter what social media says, there's currently no better combination than these two. And this is what I mean when I say the beauty industry moves faster than science can support.

10:57When you think about it in this way, it all starts to make sense because beauty brands need to sell products. So they're going to constantly be showing you new products to make you feel FOMO. And as of yet, we have nothing more powerful than retinoids and sunscreen. There are lots of other great skincare products, but when it really comes down to it, a retinoid sunscreen are the ultimate combo and it will most likely be a very long time until anything else comes out that rivals it. And just in case you needed a reminder, sunscreen is not just for sunny days. I know a lot of people are diligent with their retinoid but it really isn't doing that much if you can't also pair it with your sunscreen.

11:29Burning is one thing but collagen breakdown is happening all of the time wherever you're exposed to UV light. So that's even on a rainy day in London or even throughout winter because I know a lot of people are like do I still have to wear it in the winter. If you want the maximum collagen protection sunscreen needs to be a non-negotiable 365 days a year. And one last thing before we move on because I am a stickler for giving the whole picture. Not only will sunscreen save you fine lines it will keep your skin tone even into your 40s and 50s because too often we assume that our skincare results are showing in real time which is fundamentally wrong.

12:01Sun damage is accruing all throughout our 20s and it only begins to start showing in our late 20s and 30s. So sunscreen could genuinely save you thousands in a doctor's office in 10 to 20 years when you're trying to reduce sunspots or you've got melasma. So trust me that 20 pound sunscreen is working overtime for you. It's just delayed gratification which we all need to get a little bit more comfortable with. So moving on to talking about hydration because we all know the importance of hydration but how are we actually implementing hydration in our everyday lives on top of just drinking water?

12:30So I think a lot of people would expect me to talk about as a leg acid next. A, because it's trending and B, because I rave about it all the time. And whilst I absolutely love it and it deserves the hype, hydration is a more important basic step in the context of this conversation. I cannot stress this enough. There are so many people who would stop wanting Botox if they just hydrated their skin enough. And in my comments, I see so many people who are only using a moisturizer for their hydration, which makes sense because that is what the internet's telling us to do. And the internet is just fundamentally very confusing.

13:01But if you are debating getting Botox for the first time and you only use a moisturizer in your skincare routine, you don't have a hydrating serum, you're not using any mist, your skin is probably dehydrated. So if you want the best skin of your life, in my opinion a single moisturizer is probably not going to give you as much hydration as would make your skin look how you're wanting it to look. For me personally, on a daily basis, I will use a hydrating serum and a moisturizer and then a sunscreen and that is three steps contributing to hydration in my morning routine alone. Because what people don't understand about dehydrated skin is that it not only lacks water content but the water you do have in your skin is not being effectively trapped in there.

13:37People who have flawless skin are aiming for maximum hydration so you'll want to add water back into the skin in the form of a hydrating mist and maybe also a serum. Those are two steps I recommend for anyone who feels like they might be dehydrated but the most important part that everybody misses and this is why I like to share the whole picture so that you can understand how everything is working. The most important part is that you then want to lock that hydration in with a moisturizer that has occlusive ingredients. And in skincare, an inclusive ingredient is just an ingredient that's designed to create almost a seal over the skin that locks the hydration in.

14:10So it's no good just having the hydration without something that's then going to lock it in. Moisturizers are actually designed to do both, add hydration and lock it in. But that's kind of like going for like a three-in-one shampoo. It's much better if your primary goal to have extra hydrated skin is to have a mist, a serum, a moisturiser and then a sunscreen. Maximum hydration will give you maximum results and the glowiest skin you possibly have before moving on to any of the other active ingredients you could consider. And lastly if I haven't put enough emphasis on it already and you're probably told it every single day the sunscreen also acts as another locking layer so the hydration cannot escape.

14:44And if you're listening to this thinking okay this is a lot of things can you just tell me simply what I should do? My recommendation would be try adding multiple layers of hydration so you have the mist, the serum, then you'd have a moisturizer, then a sunscreen and I would do that consistently for at least a few months before you revisit the idea of a Botox appointment because a lot of people will see a massive change in their skin just by hydrating it consistently over quite a few months. Some people listening to this will require Botox for the results that they want to achieve if we're reminding ourselves that nobody needs Botox but for the results that you want to achieve there will be some people who do require that and we'll get onto that in a second and other people will just be chronically dehydrated.

15:20Even if you drink a lot of water, that is super important, but it won't improve dehydration lines on your face, on the surface of your skin like a mist, serum and moisturiser combo can. So if we're moving on to the second section of this, how do we know when Botox is the only remaining option? When you can be sure you've seen all the results you're going to see from skincare alone. And if we start by breaking down how Botox actually works, I feel like that is the most effective way for us to make the decision. And I also just want to add before we get into this section, everyone in this room that we are recording this now, we are aware that Botox is a taboo thing to talk about.

15:54And that is one of the reasons why we're talking about it in this episode, because it's something that some people choose to keep to themselves. Some people tell everybody, but we can't deny the fact that we are living in a world where it feels like everyone around us is getting Botox. So it feels better to talk about it and be open and honest than to conveniently skip it in an episode where it might feel uncomfortable. So my personal skincare philosophy is that by understanding how things work, including Botox, we can identify when they're right for us because we're not going to pretend that after this episode, nobody ever is going to get Botox ever again.

16:24Lots of people will go on to get Botox for the first time. Lots of people will eventually decide it's not the right thing for them. It's better to address it. And if we're considering it, fully understand how it works so that we can make the right decision. And what a lot of people do, because the whole subject is so overwhelming, is they throw everything at the wall to see what sticks. and that is usually the most expensive and stressful way and ineffective way to go about it. If you think about a pair of linen trousers which feels very fitting for this podcast right now and you've just steamed them and then you sit down you're probably going to get a few creases and then imagine that you stay seated for a few hours you get up and those creases are now basically permanent until you steam them out again.

17:00The facial expressions that you make every day are effectively creasing your skin. The less collagen you have the more likely those creases are going to stick around. So that's why we see older people who have less collagen in their skin not springing back as easily as someone with very young skin. But very expressive people can have fine lines too, even in their teens and 20s. And this is completely normal. And I think it's one of the sadder things about social media because it's meant that perfectly normal expression lines on younger girls or people in their early 20s, it's almost meant that they've started to feel odd about having lines on their face that are coming from a normal range of emotions that any normal human being would have.

17:37And the way that Botox works is that it gently paralyzes those muscles so you can't be as expressive and therefore your skin can't crease. And after months of the Botox working and after months of your face not creasing in the way that it used to, because you are no longer expressing in the way that it used to, the skin starts to appear smooth, which is where you get that kind of shiny Botox forehead appearance that people like to talk about on social media. And this is why some people won't be able to achieve the skin they want without Botox because you could be 25 and very expressive or you could be 40 and not expressive whatsoever.

18:09It is not solely age that determines whether the treatment is right for you or going to be effective. And again being expressive is a wonderful trait. Having a successful skincare routine is not about being able to iron out every last drop of emotion from your face which is ironic because I myself am not very expressive at all and I haven't had Botox. Though I have recently discovered I'm autistic which makes a lot of sense for me as I am often called monotone, can be a little bit deadpan. Ultimately you have to decide what good skin looks like to you and hold your own standard within yourself because if you attach it to the social media beauty standards of 2026 and beyond you'll probably never be happy with it.

18:43And as someone who makes a lot of content focused around the skin and appearance I've had to learn this myself more than anyone. Social media is constantly going to be moving the goalposts so it really just comes down to what is your standard within yourself and what's important to you. Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping.

19:19That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. So moving on to part three, all about how your habits affect your skin. Now we're about 75 % of the way towards being able to objectively say we are doing everything possible to optimize our daily skincare routine for the best results over the long term. And you might have moved closer to a decision on how you feel about Botox too now that we've gone deeper into how it actually works. But there is a little bit more to consider. Earlier I touched on how the skincare results you're seeing are not in real time.

19:57It might feel that way but skin moves very slowly and decades later you'll be seeing the results of what you did decades before. And this is why the science matters because decades of research into sunscreens and retinoids tells us that the result from continued use over years not months. A lot of people will say I've been using this for six months to 12 months. It feels like a long time and I understand that but in skincare we are talking about years of the best possible skincare routine that you could have that is based on science and years compound not months years and years two five and ten years i started using my retinoids six years ago when i was 24 i'm now 31 and my results look better and better every single year which was even a surprise to me i didn't know that that's how retinoids worked when i first started using them but the more i've learned about them the more i've come to understand how results compound years and years into the future and we have research to support that across thousands of people across decades and if you compare this to newer trending ingredients like for example pdrn serums there is absolutely no comparison we don't have the proof that it can categorically do what it says like a retinoid like sunscreen not even close i think that will surprise a lot of people and this is why we are banking on proven actives instead of gambling on gimmicks whatever gimmicks the skincare industry can throw at us but in the grand scheme of things doing a skincare routine twice daily takes up less than two percent of our day.

21:15So we're going to have to think about how the other 98 % of the day affects our skin. And any dermatologist will tell you that your skin's appearance is a result of so many factors at once. The term they will always use is multifactorial. Your skin looks the way it does due to hormones, genetics, stress, sleep, skincare, diet, gut health. The list goes on and the list is very overwhelming, which is hopefully why we're breaking it down in this episode. Now I'm very clear on my positioning whenever I give this kind of information. Even when I was asked to do this episode I wanted to be super clear.

21:45I don't pretend to be a dermatologist or a doctor but I do get my facts checked. So I'm going to summarize the top habits when you whittle it all down, what really matters that you can implement in this skincare routine and decisions you're going to make around your skincare routine hopefully going forwards after this episode. The first one is sleep. You're probably not going to be surprised that I'm bringing sleep up. You've heard it over and over again. Everybody knows that sleep is where the body repairs and replenishes so many systems and poor sleep is like that plant that you keep forgetting to water and then wondering why it looks kind of sad.

22:16Poor sleep puts your body under stress and it forces your body to cut corners and there was even a 2015 study that found that good sleepers had a 30 % better skin barrier recovery than those who slept fortly. We should bear in mind that this study was on 60 women of a specific demographic because not all studies are perfect but it still points to sleep as fundamental for skin health which I don't think comes as a surprise to anybody. The second habit that we know impacts our skin is having a balanced diet and if you ask any dermatologist they will tell you that the demonization of specific foods in recent times is unhelpful for healthy skin.

22:49It's rarely about superfoods. I think a lot of people think what is the one food I can eat that will give me amazing skin but superfoods are not a miracle. There are very few miracles when it comes to the skin. It's more about giving your body a broad variety of nutrients. The nutrients that it needs so your hormones and your skin repair processes can function normally just like Dr Faye mentioned a few episodes ago. But I will say that there's some interesting research around the impacts of dairy and sugar on the skin. I talk about this a lot because of how much I find it impacts me. We know that high sugar levels can cause cell glycation, which can damage collagen.

23:21And that doesn't immediately mean that sugar will age you visibly faster, but it is worth bearing in mind. And I bear that in mind as I go about my day-to-day life. I'm very much about balance. I don't think restricting or cutting out food groups is the way to go. It's more just about having the information so that you can make balanced decisions as you go about life. You have all of the information you need. And with dairy, what's really interesting is they did a meta-analysis, which is essentially when a group of scientists decide to do a study of multiple studies, and they found a correlation between dairy and acne.

23:50So across 14 studies they looked at, and nearly 80 ,000 participants, they found an increased rate of having acne with regular dairy consumption was around 20 % higher. I personally don't consume a lot of dairy because I do notice my skin becomes more inflamed when I do. and some experts depending on who you speak to will recommend reducing sugar and dairy if you deal with hormonal acne but it's not a widespread solid recommendation from every single doctor and derm and there's also no evidence that actually confirms dairy negatively impacts collagen or speeds up aging so the dairy is more to do with acne a 20 % higher risk of getting it was one conclusion from that study it doesn't automatically mean dairy will give you acne it's just an interesting correlation to bear in mind and the final habit is stress management again we are all stress heads and none of us seem to know how to manage it well.

24:36But what I think people forget about stress is that it's not just a feeling. You can be stressed even if you don't think that you are because it's a physiological state. Acute stress, which is if we were running away from a lion, that would be acute stress. That's a normal part of life. But chronic low level stress where you are just not having a very good day, day after day after day, maybe you're in a job that you don't particularly enjoy, or maybe you're in a relationship that's not really working for you, that might cause you chronic low-level stress. That puts your body under widespread pressure and will probably be leaving your body to function with less overall.

25:09And it sounds crazy, but this could be why your skin got better after a breakup. That happened for me or leaving a toxic job. Those are real things. So the advice here is usually the same. Remove any of the major stressors that you can because we can't get rid of all elements of stress in our life, but there are some changes we probably could make. And implement some techniques to manage what you can't remove. Like for example, the daily walk that you keep avoiding without your phone or reading for example instead of scrolling. I know we're all loving Substack instead of social media lately. I find that's quite a nice replacement and you might notice a pattern with all of these as well.

25:42Peak health generally provides peak skin underpinned by genetics that you can't change. So that means not everybody has the same genetic baseline and that's why I was so excited to do this episode because you'll go on social media and you'll see people saying follow this diet for the best skin of your life or your marathon and running training is making your skin worse and I don't think it accounts enough for the nuance. Skin is so multifactorial as we spoke about before. Not everybody has the same genetic baseline. That's why you can't do someone else's skincare routine and get the exact same results.

26:11It's all about understanding how your genetic baseline plays into your hormones which plays into your lifestyle and how your skincare can change your skin but you may not see the same results as everybody else because we are literally all so different. And you want to give your body everything it needs to run like a well-oiled machine but you can't ultimately change the genetic hand that you were dealt. It's just inevitable that some people will visibly age faster than others and some are more expressive than others. It's all about working with what you have and preventing damage where possible while still enjoying your life.

26:39You don't want to make your life miserable because you are living for your skin. You want to have all the information so you can make choices that are right for you. So I'm really hoping that this has been digestible enough and not felt too overwhelming so far but in this final part we're going to put it all together to truly reverse engineer your best ever skin before getting any tweekments should you choose to have them. So for the future self exercise I want to walk you through five questions. Not to make you feel like you're failing at any of them but because each one exposes a different potential gap in your routine.

27:08The first question to ask yourself is is my routine actually science backed or am I just doing what I've always done slash following trends? I think this is going to be a very revealing question where you actually look at what you're putting on your face. So an idea for you to do right now might be going back through what's on your shelf right now. For each product, could you explain to a friend what it's doing and why the evidence supports using it in your routine? Or is it on your shelf because of a review, an ad or something you saw on social that you deep down could admit to yourself you don't truly understand why you got it, you just felt a bit FOMO?

27:39Because that is very real, I do that too. Second question is, do my products match my goals? So look at each step in your routine that you've just written and ask yourself whether your skincare products marry up to the things you would like to see an improvement in. A lot of people will look at what they're using and realize the products they're using are ones they've been using for a long time but don't necessarily address the skincare concerns they've been trying to address for a long time. You just slip into a habit with skincare sometimes and all it takes is looking at your skincare routine in a different light and assessing it on a criteria like this.

28:09The third question to ask yourself, do I actually need Botox or am I just dehydrated? Before you make any decision about your treatments, have you actually ruled out that some of what you're seeing, for example, fine lines, a lack of plumpness, isn't just dehydrated skin? A lot of people skip this step entirely and just go straight to the fix when other less invasive and a lot less expensive methods might solve their problem first. The next question would be, am I protecting my skin or am I paying for it later? Sunscreen, we all know, is the cheapest, most boring, but definitely the most effective thing in this entire episode.

28:40And if you're not using it daily, you're not just risking skin cancer, which is obviously not cool or glamorous. You're also likely spending thousands later down the line undoing what a couple of pounds a day with your sunscreen now would have prevented. And the last question is, what does good skin actually mean to me? This is not what Instagram says. This is what it means to you. So strip away the external benchmark and define your own version of what you're actually working towards. Because if you don't know what good skin looks like for you, you can't measure whether you're getting there and you're always gonna be measuring against somebody else or something you've seen on social media.

29:13So that brings us to the close of this week's episode. I really hope I was able to whittle down a lot of information into something that actually feels actionable and digestible and not overwhelming for you. I'm going to be putting all of my ride or die products and everything that we've covered in this episode in the Working Hard newsletter, which you're going to be getting in the next couple of days. And if you want to find me on social, my handle is Natalie O 'Neill on every platform you could think of. And I've got some big plans for next year, which I can't say too much about now, but stay tuned if you're interested in seeing what comes out next year.

29:41And now I'll just hand you back to Grace. Thank you so much for listening, especially if you made it all the way to the end.

30:11and the team behind the podcast during my maternity leave. We will be doing a full breakdown of Natalie's top tips for building your routine on the Working Hard Instagram this week. So I will see you over there. And then after that, I will see you next week, where we are going to be talking all about building your circle, and the science of how your friendships and acquaintances can shift who you are, and who you're going to become, which is one of my favourite topics, and I think is so underrated in the world of life improvement.

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