Bryce Dallas Howard on the realities of being handed a head start

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1:59Explore further at rangerover.com. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. It's a new school year, which means yet another back-to-school shopping list. Luckily, when you use your Apple Card, you can earn 3 % daily cash back on everything at Apple, including the new iPad Air and the MacBook Pro. Apply for Apple Card today and unlock the tools for a productive school year. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. The term Nepo Baby is perfect. And I'm going to share why. Now, this is polarizing, and I'm going to say why it's perfect for me.

2:45Tell me. Um, it needs to sting. So I'm going to tell you something today that I don't talk about very often. I was raised in a very famous family. My grandmother was Catherine Graham. She ran the Washington Post for almost 30 years, the first woman to ever run a Fortune 500 company, leading it through the Pentagon Papers and Watergate. My dad, Don Graham, took over for her and ran the post until he sold it to Jeff Bezos in 2013. Between him and my grandmother, I grew up getting to watch two completely different, extraordinary examples of leadership up close. And I've spent a lot of my adult life, especially at work, trying to prove I'm good at what I do, completely separate from all the family stuff.

3:36One of the biggest struggles in both my work and my life has been trying to figure out what to do with all of this? How do I forge my own identity while also making peace with the privilege I was born into? But today's guest, Bryce Dallas Howard, said something that really made me think. Bryce is a third-generation Hollywood name. Her father is Ron Howard, an actor on Happy Days who then went on to become one of the most successful directors of the last 40 years, directing movies like Apollo 13 and The Da Vinci Code. Bryce is an incredibly successful actress and director in her own right. And she started her career doing something similar to me, trying to prove she earned it, separate from all of that.

4:18When she applied to NYU's theater program, she applied under the name Bryce Dallas, dropping Howard entirely so no one would know whose daughter she was. She went on to build a career that speaks for itself. She's played Claire Deering in the Jurassic World franchise, earned a Golden Globe nomination for As You Like It, won a SAG award with the cast of The Help. But now she leads her career acting and directing proudly under the name Bryce Dallas Howard. She's both proven that she's successful in her own right, and she's embraced her identity as a Howard. I came into this conversation thinking we were going to talk about how you define and feel success when you come from so much privilege, and there is such a long shadow of success in your family.

5:01But I left it with a completely different question. I'm Molly Graham, and this is Work Life, where we untangle the messy human side of work. Bryce Dallas Howard, welcome to Work Life. Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for doing this. I've been excited and a little terrified for this conversation for a while. Yeah, no, I'm very, very, very excited as well. And I admit, I was like, oh, I'm not nervous at all. This is so great. I'm so excited. like Molly's the perfect person to talk to about this. And then last night I like could not sleep at all. And when I did sleep, I just had weird nightmares of me not being able to find my beta blockers, which I actually don't need for this conversation.

5:47But I was like, wow, that's specific. There's some stuff here. There's some anxiety there. There's some anxiety about anxiety there. Okay, so tell me. So my understanding is that your parents moved you out of Hollywood when you were five and intentionally to kind of like get you away from the industry or the bubble. There was an incident. So I read something about this incident. Will you tell the story of the incident? Yeah, so I'm the oldest of four, and the youngest hadn't been born yet. And I was going to a preschool, and I came home one day holding a script that someone had given me to give to my dad.

6:33And my mom was like, we're moving out of this industry town. Because that's really what it is. It's an industry town. And the focus of the town is largely about ensuring that the industry succeeds. And so you can't really begrudge someone's ambition or someone's seeing an opportunity to get in there. But my mom was like, I'm going to take my daughter out of this equation. Yeah. So it's funny because I also grew up, I grew up in the industry town, like my parents stayed in DC and I had a similar experience, like a very vivid memory of a kid walking up to me on the playground saying, my parents told me I should be friends with you.

7:16Yeah. And it's so interesting to like, as a little kid, you know, you don't even know really what any of this means. But did that, did you really escape that in Connecticut or was it still kind of a part of your growing up story? Well, interesting you mentioned that. When I was in first grade, when I was in Connecticut, maybe the year after that, second or third grade, I was in Alice in Wonderland. And kids were cast, multiple kids were cast for multiple parts. So it was like, you know, there were like five Alices and there were like three Cheshire Cats and all of that kind of thing. And I was one of the Cheshire Cats.

8:01and I was really excited. And we had just all found out the casting and I went into the bathroom and I was in a stall and I heard a girl who was one of the popular girls talking to a bunch of the other popular girls. And she said, oh, well, she only got that part because she's Ron Howard's daughter. And I remember, again, I felt shame because I could sense the kind of tone of the conversation and I was like, Ooh, what did I do wrong? But it, it's not like I was wronged. Yeah. You know? And so that, that is a kind of interesting dynamic. Totally. Um, so it's just, it's sort of putting the, putting the pieces together.

8:49Uh, and then my parents, I mean, this is another thing that I think is, is interesting to talk about is when we're similar ages, we're like only a year apart, growing up, disclosing who you were related to, disclosing the access that you had, disclosing privilege, disclosing wealth was considered to be really rude. Yeah. And so my parents didn't tell us. They sort of constructed a situation where that was false, where we were all really nervous. Like they, my mom would always say like, I have a bookkeeping degree. If something happened, you know, that Hollywood is, is very unstable. If something happens, I can always support the family with my bookkeeping degree, like created these, these, uh, a sense that we were, that, that we were less privileged than we were.

9:49And believed that not disclosing that would make us not be spoiled. And like what I did when I went to NYU is I didn't tell anybody and I didn't want anybody to know. And it was a secret and it was because I felt like it was my responsibility to earn things on my own. And that if people didn't know, if I didn't disclose it, then they wouldn't know somehow or that it wouldn't count. And the reality is, is that there are so many micro and macro advantages with any kind of proximity to power. And disclosure is really important. I think it's like disclosure of salary. It was considered rude to disclose your salary.

10:42Well, so it was interesting for me growing up, kind of it dawning on me slowly, wait a second. I have access to a lot more stability and privilege and knowledge and successful people and people assuming I know things that maybe I don't even know than most people I'm meeting. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of an interesting dawning. I want to tell you, literally listening to you talk through this, you and I were raised in the same household. It's pretty wild. Like everything from where you started, what you started talking about, which is like all the things you were taught not to talk about, you know, like I, I was taught basically all the same things.

11:34Like you don't tell the story. Like you don't tell the story about like, oh, my parents, like people are like, what did you do this weekend? And it's like, you know, oh, we like, I don't know, we hung out. Not like, oh, we were at my grandmother's house and like such and such senator or president or whatever was there. Or like my parents had dinner at the White House. Like none, not, I feel like I spent my whole child editing, childhood editing my life, you know? And it sounds like, I mean, similarly, like, was raised by parents. And I'm so grateful that they raised me conscious of not being an asshole and not, like, shoving stuff in people's faces.

12:10But it did come with a weird distortion field that I like emerged out of at some point, which is like part of what I heard you describing was like, I don't think I really understood my own standing and then my own privilege because of that. You know, I think I spent my whole childhood trying to prove that I was the same as everybody else.

12:37And that can create like a complicated relationship with it. You know, so I feel both ways about it. I don't know. I imagine you do, too, where I'm both like really grateful that I wasn't raised to like flaunt it or something like that. But also, I think it made me confused about, like, what to be proud of and what to be ashamed of or something like that, too. Yeah. Talk a little bit about, like, deciding to go into acting and directing and also what that early phase felt like where you were in your dad's industry in one way or another. I mean, I was acting a lot in high school and high school plays.

13:14I loved being on movie sets, but I loved being part of the crew. and then I went to NYU and was very, I wasn't, I was like, parents, you are not allowed to come to any place. You got to stay away. And then there came a point where I was like, I feel like people know and I'm being weird about this. Like my parents are great parents and they have a right to, like they're paying for my college education. Like they have a right to come to my plays and see me be naked on stage for 45 minutes in my weird experimental plays that I loved so much. So it was kind of, there was definitely for myself a maturity that I had to go through realizing like, oh, wow, this is coming from such a place of insecurity.

14:10Like you really knowing that you haven't earned the attention that you get from people being curious about your relationship and whether or not you're as talented as they are and what do you look like and are you a jerk or are you cool? I mean, you know, it's like I realized I was like I need to own the reality and also acknowledge how grateful I am to be part of my family. Did that actually happen for you in film school? Yeah. Like at Tisch? Yeah. So you that early. Sorry, this is envy that you're hearing coming through. That early, like in college, you said to yourself, like, I'm a Howard and I need to, I need to like integrate that into my identity.

15:12Yep. How did you think about sort of like, okay, I'm going to be a Howard, but also I'm doing my own thing and like what's mine and what's my family's? Does that make any sense? Yeah, totally. I think because I was directly working towards getting jobs in an industry that my family had been working in for at that point over half a century. And because it's context for the audience. It's not just my dad. My grandparents, my dad's parents, became actors when they were very young. went out to Los Angeles and saved up. And my grandfather was working and would bring my dad with him to auditions. And my dad would kind of mimic my grandfather.

16:05And people noticed that. And they were like, who is that adorable boy doing your lines? And so he did an audition for something. And my grandparents were like, Ronnie, do you want to do this? Like they were very, they were just really excellent at treating it professionally and giving my dad and then also my uncle, who's an actor as well, agency. And so my dad became a child actor only because his parents were in the industry. My dad was out earning my grandfather by the time he was five years old, but it was the same industry. I think for me, going to school and studying the very thing that my family had been doing for 50 years, it was obvious that, like, the first step of that was realizing the advantage.

16:58Yeah. Was being like, whoa, folks have kind of, like, no idea what the map of this industry is. And we all, I mean, we all as people have maps to circumstances is that others don't. You know, there are unwritten rules everywhere. I worked at a restaurant in high school and like, I'll never forget like this, like the head server being like on the first day being like, here's the deal. Like these are the things that took me years to learn. And I'm about to share them with you, 15 year old girl who's going to be running the cash register. And I was like, dude, thank you so, so, so, so much. I first saw all of the advantages that I had because there were things that I knew like, oh, this is normal and this is not.

17:53Yeah. This is the average working actor gets one in every 64 auditions. Oh, you think that you should quit after 10 auditions? Oh, your parents are telling you that you don't have what it takes because you've been auditioning for a year and you haven't gotten anything, dude, that's normal for successful people. That's what the working actors experience. And that's just one example. My grandmother told me that stat when I was 16 years old. And it's such a mental game. Yeah. Going in and auditioning, going on set and needing to perform, pitching something, needing to make your case to financiers, confidence is pretty crucial.

18:41And confidence is often earned. It's because you go through something and you're like, yeah, no, I know what this is. I've inherited so much confidence. Yeah. I've inherited it. I've earned some too because I'm 45 now. Yeah. But in the beginning when I was in college, I was like, oh, wow. Even what's being taught, folks are not being prepared for this industry. They're not being prepared to succeed. They are being set up to go to graduate school. Yeah. And a small few of them will actually be able to. And this is not cool. This is not fair. This is not how you sustain a healthy industry. And it is possible to actively create pathways so that it's not just people who have access to exclusive insider tips who then are able to, like, make these key, key, key kind of moves at key moments that then leverages them.

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22:30One of the things I'm so conscious of is how much privilege I've had and how much it's affected my life. It's something I wrestle with in a lot of ways. But, you know, it's not just like the really obvious versions that I think most people think about, which is like not having to worry about money. Right. Not having to worry about things from food on the table all the way to student debt, you know. But it's also the rooms that you were in growing up, right? And from like the people that you got to meet that were a normal part of your life. I remember the story that I read about Tom Cruise entertaining you as a kid.

23:13Oh, yes. Did lots of backflips. And I have like the, you know, I use Warren Buffett's first name because he was a big part of our lives growing up. And, you know, all the way to the conversations you got to be a part of, whether you got to witness them or your parents were talking about at the dinner table. And all of that is a kind of privilege bundled up together. So, like, I'm very curious to hear how you think about it. Yeah. I mean, yes, yes, yes, and yes, some more. And there are the privileges that, like you said, like there are the privileges that are obvious that we're aware of. And I kind of think of those as like macro privileges and then – or macro advantages.

23:56And then there are these micro privileges and micro advantages that compound over time. And we're wired to not see it. We're wired to somehow think that we are responsible for the results that we've created when those results are good. Important caveat. We want the credit. Yeah. And I'll never forget, I learned about a study conducted by a gentleman named Paul Piff. And he had students play a rigged Monopoly game. And the students knew that the game was rigged. Like, it was, like, insanely rigged. Like you got like twice as many rolls. You got three times as much money. Like the rules were in place were meant to absurdly favor one side versus the other based on a coin toss.

25:03So it had nothing to do with them. And what he found, what this study found again and again and again and again and again is that when, of course, they, I mean, the game was rigged for certain people to win every single time. And yet when they were asked about why did they win, they never cited that they had those advantages. They were like, well, my strategy. well you see i come from this background where and that influenced my choices and therefore i won the game it's like no you won the game because it was rigged and there were also other things as well like they there were pretzels at the table and they they ate twice as many much food as the other person.

25:58They ate loudly, increasingly more and more loudly as they were winning. They became kind of like disrespectful and rude. They were told, they were left candy and they were told that the candy was there for children for a later study. If they wanted to help themselves to one, okay, but the children was there for the candy. The people who were in the winning position took twice as much candy. I mean, the study then went on to reveal things around cheating and dishonesty and the more wealth you had, I mean, this is specifically focusing on economic wealth, the stingier you were and the more that you justified it.

26:42The less access to wealth you had, the more generous you were. And so people don't like to see their own privilege. They don't like to see their own advantage. They want to believe if they ran a marathon and they won that marathon that they did it because of themselves. They don't want to learn that they started the marathon five minutes before everybody else. How do you think about success in light of sort of really owning and like embodying the advantage that you started with? Like how do you sort of fully own what's yours? Yeah.

27:31That's a tricky one because it's not just that I'm a kid of a kid of. My parents have been together since they were 16 years old. My dad is like famously adorable. He's like a lovely human being. I've heard that about him. Yeah, he's great. He's great. And so I've inherited a lot of the warmth that I've received, a lot of the warmth that he earned. I don't know. It's just the ownership of it. what you were saying is that's the hard part because ownership is so weird, you know? Totally. Like we're all vessels for each other and it's all a symbiotic relationship and like receiving compliments, stuff like that.

28:24Like in my head, I'm like, yeah, but you have no idea the incredible support I've had in my life. So that's interesting because it kind of goes back to that girl in the bathroom being like, you only got the Cheshire Cat part because you're Ron Howard's daughter. Like, do you feel like that has followed you? Because it definitely has followed me. Like, I like when when I'm out in the world, when I'm doing things, when I feel like I I'm always waiting for someone to say, yeah, but you only got that because of this or something like that. Or maybe that's just something I say to myself. Yeah. Well, I mean, I say that to myself always.

28:56And yeah, that's and I always assume that others are thinking that. And what if I let that be true? Like, let's say, what if that's true? Then what? Many years ago, I stopped dieting. And the concept that made me finally stopped dieting was the idea of if you were just whatever the body is that you're trying to change your body into, if it was just that, no matter what you ate, no matter how much you worked out, what would you eat? How would you work out? I was like, well, I wouldn't. Interesting. I wouldn't diet, but I'd probably get like really sick of binging after a few days. And then maybe I'd like listen to my own cues and maybe I wouldn't punish myself with my workouts like to the point of injury.

29:55Maybe I would like go into nature and recognize that I'm able-bodied and what a gift that is. And like it instantly, when I separated my activities and the way in which I fed myself from trying to control what my body looked like, I was like, oh, I actually would live completely differently. And if I let go of the concern of do they think I earned this or not, or the concern of did I actually earn this or not, and I just let that be like, let's say I didn't, but I'm here now, what's possible? I love what you said. Like, okay, yeah. Like, here, you know, what if I didn't earn this? But almost like, what can I do with it?

30:51Yeah. You know, let's agree that like. Try your best. Yeah. And do something with what you're given, you know. Yeah. And bring others along with you. Yeah. Do you mind if I ask, like, how you measure your own success? You know, bank account.

31:15I mean, a lot of different things. Like, okay, it's the first thing that came to my mind when you asked that was like something that I believe is that legacy is totally out of your control. Like legacy is something that other people determine, but what is in your control is contribution and your actions around that. And so that's the sort of like it's a wonderful life framework is definitely a way to view success in one's life. Wait, what's the it's a wonderful life framework? Well, it's like George Bailey was, he thought he was a failure because he never left his town and he took over the family business and he didn't go and become a war hero and all of that.

32:08And he just felt like his life didn't really add up to much. I mean, it's really existential. Like he's on the verge of taking his life. And he meets an angel, Clarence, and he kind of shows him what life would have been like if he never existed. And by the end of it, George Bailey, having seen, you know, all the things that would have happened to all the people that he loved if he didn't exist, realized really the value of his life and that it wasn't about whether or not he had financially made it. It was really about the relationships and ways in which he showed up for other people. And so at the end of the movie, he's had this realization and he's finally appreciating what he had taken for granted prior to that.

33:02It is a testament to the power of being a part of a community and being invested in the health and sustainability of that community. You know, I grew up in a family that was in the history books. You know, my grandmother, her, well, her legacy is so many things. It's so many things. I'm sorry. I'm such a, I'm such a dork. I was like, the second, the second you said it, I was like, oh my God, the black and white ball. The black and white ball. Like, it's just like literally in her honor. In her honor. I mean, yeah, the list is long, right? It's crazy. And I'm sure that's like the smallest thing.

33:42Like, I've read about her being like, what's up with this thing? Yeah, totally. But it's, yeah, you know, I mean, one of the things I think about. You said legacy is out of your control. And I used to define success as kind of if you didn't do something that was important enough to be in the history books, then you had failed. I really grew up, you know, into my 20s, maybe even 30s, thinking that, that like if I didn't do something that meaningful and important, then like I hadn't done something worthwhile. But then if you actually looked back at my grandmother's career, like the reason she took over the post, which is a family business, you know, my great grandfather bought it and then my grandfather married my grandmother and took it over.

34:24And then he ended up committing suicide. And the reason why she ended up in the position that she was in, you know, first female CEO of a Fortune 500 company and Watergate and the Pentagon Papers and all these things wasn't a choice. It was because the worst thing that had ever happened to her happened, right? And she just managed to embrace it and then managed to make good decisions in really hard circumstances. But it's not like she designed her life trying to be in a history book, you know? And I think part of what I hear you saying when you're talking about contribution versus legacy is, you know, let's assume no one's ever going to fucking remember anything that you do.

35:02You know, that like who's thinking about you or that nothing you do matters, but what you do every day matters, right? And it's very much like over the last 10 years how I've changed that conversation with myself about success, which is, first of all, the history books are full of people that didn't mean to be there. And I feel like what you can control is what you decide and what you do with what you are given, which I really resonate with, you know, in terms of what you were saying. You talked about like kind of the privilege of being raised by someone so warm and sounds like kind. But I'm curious, like talk about sort of what you took from that family.

35:46Yeah. So I feel just really lucky because my dad's parents were such good parents and so ethical. And so had those like Depression-era farmer mentality of zero entitlement and, of course, also like serving and being part of the Air Force and all of that. Like that's the household that my dad grew up in. And then my mom and dad, they got together when they were 16 years old. And so mom's parents are great too. But I feel really lucky because they handled themselves very well because they never expected to become successful or wealthy or anything like that themselves. And I've watched people consistently live below their means, finding ways to actively be part of bolstering a larger community, giving back, making really hard choices as parents, Like doing all the things that like you just wish you didn't have to do as parents, but you do.

37:16You know, like it's like the thing like I wish I could just give you the credit card, but I'm not going to do that. Like they didn't take shortcuts. They didn't take shortcuts as parents. And so it's like just that alone, the privilege of coming from a family that is loving and that is kind and that is moral and that is trying hard and that is wants to grow and get better together is such a gift. I mean, those are small things, but I— They're values. Yeah, yeah. I really value it. The other thing that is so unique and has been such a huge part of my life is because my dad was a child actor and became a child actor because his dad was bringing him to his work, my dad brought me to his work.

38:10And I'm the oldest of four. And my siblings, it's me and then my sisters who are four years younger than me. They're twins. And then my brother who's six years younger than me. And so by the time my sisters were born, I was just with my dad just nonstop. My dad was like, I'll take her because, like, it's a lot. A lot of kids. Yeah. And because he was the director, he was in a position where it was okay for as long as the child was behaved, the child was allowed to be on set. and oh my god the things that I learned and the things that I got to be witness to and it's just it's just incredible it's absolutely incredible what do you think are the biggest things you learned from him I realize the list is probably really long but like things that shaped you professionally?

39:09He has a real lack of ego and entitlement. My mom has also cultivated that very, like, very powerfully within him. A good marriage. Yes. Yeah, exactly. He cares. I think he cares about the right things. Okay, so here, like, I'll just be, I'll be a little specific. Yeah, do it. So the industry has gone through a lot of changes and the money people make is really different and the amount of time that they have to prepare for things and access to resources for things, it's just profoundly different. And it, like I remember my dad joking recently being like, ah, I'm making the same money I made in 1981.

40:03You know, it's just, it's a paradigm shift that needed to happen, that needed to happen. And he has been throughout it so focused on the craft of his work and excellence within his work and a lack of entitlement and understanding that, I mean, the way he talks about it, that he caught the gravy train and And that that wasn't normal and that that was fortunate and that things need to shift. And if he wants to keep working, he needs to be able to compete. And seeing him do what it takes to do that. And then on the flip side, he does these, he does a very rigorous screening process that very few directors do.

40:52because he has focus groups and is like every week getting people to tell him what isn't working about his movie. And it's like an incredibly painful process because it's like you're getting feedback from folks who have very little context and it can be very harsh and it hurts because it's about something that you really care about. But it's the thing that makes it better. And he is, my God, I mean, it's not that he's made of steel because it still hurts. Like there are things that he can quote directly from folks in focus groups. Understandably. His favorite is someone who saw Apollo 13 and was insisting that it was just such Hollywood BS that they would have never survived.

41:42But I was like, it's a true story. But he operates from a place of humility and curiosity and with a desire to, yeah, do his best in the given circumstances. Yeah. I don't know if that was like the sexiest thing, but I just – he's really – he's a super, super solid person. And he's also – he's a good person. Like sometimes like if I like say something to him that seems a little like gossip or like judgmental, like he'll check me. Like he'll check me. He'll be like, don't talk about an actor in an audition like that. And I was like, whoa. Like if someone like didn't have a strong audition. There's this one instance many, many, many, many, many, many, many years ago where I was like, yikes for this one audition.

42:36And he was like, you can't, like no laughing at auditions. If it's not working, you go next. You need to have respect. Yeah. It's so interesting. You're, as I knew you would, changing the way I think about a lot of things as we're talking. But I would say probably the greatest privilege I have is being raised by like two incredible parents. obviously also, you know, getting to see the form of leadership that my grandmother role modeled. But like my dad in particular, like I always say this when my friends are talking about being bad parents and I'm like, you know, my dad wasn't home every night for dinner and he definitely had to work on the weekends sometimes.

43:18And you know what he did is he took me to the office and he sat me down and he made me answer the mail with him, you know? And my dad was famous. My dad's famous, similar to your dad for being a really wonderful person. But one of the things he was famous for back in the day when people wrote letters was writing really long responses when people complained about things in the newspaper. He didn't take it personally, but he took it on as part of his job. Yeah. He took it to heart. Yeah, he took it to heart. Exactly. I remember in middle school, some parody reporter sent him a letter, and then he wrote back a seven-page letter.

43:53And the guy published the letter that he sent and my dad's letter making fun of my dad. And I remember reading it and being really proud because I was like, yeah, this is who my dad is. My dad is a thoughtful, authentic, caring person who takes everything that in some ways you should take seriously, seriously. And, you know, that, I mean, when my dad sold the post, they put a plaque up in the elevator and it said, like, in this elevator, Don Graham greeted people by name 347 ,462 times. And it was just because like he, that's one of the things he's known for is always remembering like your name and your spouse's name and your kid's name and their dog's name and like saying good morning to every single person, you know?

44:33And I think those role models like almost more than the other kinds of privilege like have shaped how I move through the world, which it sounds like is the same for you with your dad. Completely, completely, completely. And that's one of those little kind of like secret advantages. Yeah. And I think that people just for themselves as parents, thinking about how you operate in the world and the integrity with which you go about your business, it's going to impact how the rest of your family operates and the opportunities that your family are going to get. I always say like you want to be the person that everybody wants to work with again you know and you want to be the person where when somebody leaves and goes to another job they think oh I want to take that person with me or I want to and I think part of what you're saying is like you build a brand for yourself you know and that brand also has ripple effects but part of you know part of it is just that that that is relationships are you know one of the most powerful things in the world and how people remember you and how they think of you

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49:23Okay, so the phrase nebo baby, well, it feels like it showed up overnight, you know, But I know that you said to me at some point, like, we used to be called Hollywood royalty. Now we're called Nepo babies. Like, just talk about that experience for you and also how you think about that, like, conversation in the world. Yeah. I, like, light up around this conversation. You can just light up. Because it's so crucial. It's so crucial. So, yeah, the term – when I was kind of coming up in – I'm 45 now. I first started working professionally, first in theater and Broadway and off-Broadway and then in film in my early 20s.

50:09That was kind of when I broke in. And when I broke in, I remember in interviews people would always be like, as Hollywood royalty. And often they would frame it in a way where it would be like, was it hard? Was it hard growing up as Hollywood royalty? I'm like, what if these people imagined my childhood? It was amazing. I highly recommend it. Like, I mean, it's, yeah, the advantages are significant. And it was very clear, but it was very interesting to me how it seemed to be framed. Like, do you feel pressure? It's like, wow, isn't that a champagne problem? You know, oh, people are looking at me.

50:51I have people's attention. Isn't that the thing people work decades for to get in an entertainment scenario? So the term Nepo baby is perfect. And I'm going to share why. Now, this is polarizing, and I'm going to say why it's perfect for me. It needs to sting. There are huge systemic inequalities within industries, in particular the entertainment industry, that have not been looked at and evaluated and torn down. So there was an article that came out in New York Magazine in December of 2022 that talked about Nepo Babies in a way that made it part of the cultural conversation. And it was specifically Nepo Babies as it pertains to the entertainment industry.

51:51And it was a hot topic and a hot moment because we were not yet in the strikes, but we were gearing up for the strikes. And we were seeing how production was down in Los Angeles. People weren't getting paid anymore. The pilot season had disappeared. There were so many less opportunities. And the few opportunities that there were often would go to people who were insiders. And so it was crucial to identify it in a way that stung, in a way that isn't like legacy professional or second or third generation. It needed to have a stickiness to it so that people could start really investigating it and really looking at it.

52:41And it's opening up ways to evaluate. I mean, early on, a lot of folks would be like, well, doesn't that exist in every industry? And it's like, well, there are apprenticeships that exist. There were more apprenticeships that used to exist. But are they paid or are they unpaid? And kind of that research and development period of time in people's careers, like who's subsidizing that? And is there a structure within an industry to subsidize that? Or is it really the people who are secretly getting helped by their parents? Yeah. Or people in their community that they had access to that others don't.

53:20Yeah. So. I love this. I just want to say it's not actually what I thought you were going to say about Nepo babies. But I think your point about like it should sting is so both like right and interesting. Because part of what I take away from that, but I'm curious if this is what you mean, is it should sting because you should sit in that position of privilege and think, how can I earn this? Or how can I deserve this? Or maybe those aren't the right words. What am I going to do with this? What am I going to do with this? What's next? Yeah. In a way that, like, I obviously didn't do anything to get all of this.

53:58So, like, how do I use this platform, like, whether it's to help others or to, like, create a set of stairs that let other people come up here? Yeah. Yeah. It is about growing up. It's really about growing up. And it's interesting that the term itself is sort of infantilizing. Yeah. And it's interesting because it is so connected to one's identity as it pertains to often parentage. Yeah. Yeah. And you asked earlier, like, how do you take ownership over something or your own career, all of that? And it is this very tricky thing because you don't want to pretend that you're self-made when you're not.

54:52Very few people are, actually. And yet you also need to, like there's work that needs to be done and there needs to be a sense of confidence and focus and commitment and authority in that work. But ideally that work isn't in response to, I need to make my own way. I want to prove, it's just like, no, this is the hand that I was dealt. What game am I going to play in a way that is going to evolve the human species? I just want to say it's wild to me that you're one year older than me because I really feel like I'm talking to an incredibly wise big sister. Oh, my gosh. No, that's crazy. No, I think that I've struggled like for a lot of my life to not play that game of just like, no, I need to earn this on my own.

55:43I need to basically pretend like I'm self-made. and in deep contrast to like, I'm so proud of my family and my father is my hero and like all these things. And I've just never really known how to live with both of those things, you know, both that I work really hard and I've, you know, done a lot in the last 20 years, but also that I came from somewhere that gave me a lot. And you, yeah, you've really helped me just even in this conversation, but it's really powerful to think about like how to just live that as one identity instead of two, you know? Yeah. It's something that I'm constantly unpacking because of the Monopoly game, because it's like, oh my gosh, we're so blind.

56:32We're so we're so blind to our own advantages and and and what that means in the larger picture um but it's also not it doesn't need to be like a like I and therefore I feel so guilty about it I think that's a huge trap that I definitely felt fell into a lot and can fall into that And then also when you feel like, oh, the expectation is that I am giving all this money, but they don't realize that it's here. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There are so many more things that can be done in addition to financially contributing. And, you know, if people trust you more than they trust other people because you come from a family, well, use that trust.

57:27Take some risks that someone else can't take because they're only going to get one shot and you're going to get more than one shot. Blow a chance to potentially have a talent show up. Because it is really important also. So I guess this is just like the last thing I'll say because it's like any of this being self-congratulatory at all makes me want to like throw up. Because the takeaway is we all have access to our own experiences that are very specific and very unique. And finding ways to share that access with others who don't have it is of profound value. and people have done that with me and that's how communities work yeah no I agree I think that's definitely one thing I've taken away is like you don't pick where you come from what you pick is what you do with it yep you know yep Bryce I'm so grateful to you for making time for this conversation oh my gosh Sam thank you really fun really really fun so fun really great Thank you so much.

58:43Yeah. Work Life is a production of Ted and Pushkin Industries. This episode was produced by Isaac Carter and Leah Rose. Banban Chang is our story editor. Mixing by Hansdale Shi. Ted's executive producer is Daniela Balarezzo. Constanza Gallardo is the executive producer for Pushkin. Special thanks to Roxanne Hilash, Valentina Bohanini, Laini Lott, Tansika Soongmanivong, and Ashley Murphy. If you like the show and want more, come join the discussion on my Substack Lessons. I'm Molly Graham. Thanks for listening.

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