3 simple steps to transform your metabolism | Shawn Stevenson and Prof. Tim Spector

26:09But if for some reason I let all the oil like run low and I keep running it, then I know I'm sort of causing all this damage to this car and my car is going to like, something's going to go horribly wrong after like three years or four years. Is that how I think about it? It's not like this big collapse immediately. It's like an ongoing damage. Well, whether it's your car or it's the boiler in your house that's leaking, in order to keep your house heated at the perfect temperature, you're having to sort of put more fuel in, it's less efficient, and every now and again, it's going to break down and cause other problems.

26:42I think that's probably more the way to see it. And you might end up with rust in the system and things that wouldn't happen if it was really in its tip-top state. But therein lies the problem with trying to consolidate metabolic health into, is it the oil, right? We've got engine coolant. We've got gasoline, right, to run your car. We've got even the windshield wiper fluid could be a problem if it starts raining, right? It's all of these factors that are impacting the performance of our human vehicle, right? And so we can't consolidate it. And wonderful researchers are trying to, like that study that I mentioned with the 12%, right?

27:21We're looking at cardiometabolic factors, but what about how your body is handling insulin and blood sugar and all these different things? But none of these things are happening in a vacuum and they're all affecting each other at the same time. There isn't a cell in your body that's not being affected by the activities of all of your other cells. We have trillions of cells and it's a cellular community. I like this idea. All your cells are working together in harmony. That's like you're now, you know, these systems are working really great. What are the simple things that have changed that means that, you know, now you're describing almost everybody as not being metabolically healthy and presumably a hundred years ago they were.

27:59What are the key things? To use one word to kind of encompass, it's the environment. The environment that we're existing is very different than 100 years ago. Very, very different. And whether this is the environment exposure itself, you know, there are billions and billions and billions of newly invented chemicals that are released into the environment here in the U.S. alone. And this is allowed, by the way, by the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, supposed to be protecting. And that's the thing, too. We are a part of the environment as well. We tend to separate humans and environment.

28:32We're a part of the environment. And so just the air that we're breathing is different. And, you know, recently I was having a conversation about these PFAS chemicals or these forever chemicals that are just a part of our lives today. And it's the ones on Teflon and, you know, the frying pans and cookware and things. DuPont. Thanks to DuPont. You know, this is back around the 1940s. and Teflon, which again, just look at this incredible innovation. But now the result of that, the fallout of that is that 98 % of people tested on planet earth, I'm talking about from Alaska to Hawaii, 98 % of people now have DuPont's chemicals in their blood.

29:19And the researchers had to go back and look at blood from pre that time, around from soldiers to find blood that was clear. of these compounds. And so the air we're breathing, the chemical exposure, whether it's through, you know, cooking and the fumes, and this is going back to another thing about our metabolic health and energy we're using. It's not just the things we're eating. It's also what we're inhaling as well is used as energy and conversion. And so obviously the food, our food culture is very, very different than our ancestors. And, you know, I've been talking a lot about this and and shouting this from the rooftops.

30:01And one of my latest projects really helped to create a shift in this conversation. My book, Eat Smarter, a few years back, in talking about this processed food environment, ultra processed food environment. And according to the BMJ, actually, over 60 % of the average American's diet is now made of ultra processed, newly invented food. But the numbers are even worse for US children. And this was published in JAMA, the Journal of the American Yeah, but even worse for UK children than US ones, most recent data. Oh, yeah. And this is the thing. As that's being implemented deeper into the culture, those children are now going to pat and it's just going to get worse and worse.

30:37So about 70 % of US children's diet is made of ultra-processed, newly invented food. And that number is just continuing to climb. And this isn't just a US phenomenon, obviously. But the question is, what is that? What are ultra-processed foods? Humans have been processing food for a very long time. All right, just to be clear, if you're taking that olive oil, for example, where does it come from? We're doing a process to get the olive oil out of the olives. But traditionally, it's a cold process. It's a stone process. You're smashing the oil, collecting the oil. It's very simple, right? Ultra processed foods, on the other hand, is when you have a field of corn that somehow, someway gets turned into a box of Lucky Charms.

31:23It's so much perversion and things that happen, all these different chemical additives, you know, the processing of even creating this genetically modified weird corn in the first place. But for us, and I grew up in, you know, glorified food desert here in the United States, this was just food. You know, I didn't know that it was bad for me. It's just what we were exposed to. And it's cheap. It's very tasty as it's designed to be. And for us, it's just food. I didn't know that there was a difference between, say, you know, wild-caught salmon and fish sticks. You know, I didn't know that there was a difference.

31:57And so I'm going to prefer the fish sticks with copious amounts of ketchup, by the way. I'd love to bring Tim in here, both on, specifically here, I guess we're talking about these ultra-processed foods and, you know, do they impact metabolic health? And then I think also interested in, you know, Sean's talking about quite a number of different ways that might be affecting our metabolic health. And I'm curious, as you're thinking about these, what are you most worried about? As people are thinking about this, what should they be most worried about as they think about themselves and their children?

32:24For 20 years, I was studying genetics. And there's a lot of data showing that genes are important in modifying our metabolic health and where we put the fat and the internal fat. And we've discussed this before. So, you know, I believe that it was genes were really important. But what's clear is the last 50 years where, you know, levels have skyrocketed, our genes haven't changed at all. So our genes were really well adapted for the environment our ancestors had. And that meant, you know, we had the right energy control to get the right blood pressure, to have the right amount of fat on our body, to be able to process foods correctly.

33:09And now we're getting this onslaught of not only pollutants, but all these ultra-processed foods that our genes really weren't geared up to deal with. And also the abundance of food, the fact that there is unlimited food, which our ancestors never really had. uh so i think it's the inability to deal with a the abundance and the uh different types of food that are are causing this problem uh in most of the population what's interesting is that there do seem to be some people in all populations that are protected against this so even in the most to beast countries, you'll find about 25 % of the population that can stay slim.

33:57And we don't really understand why that is, but everyone else has ballooned over the last 50 years. So I think we have to really have a hard look at what we were hardwired for, our system, and try and get back as close to that, which means not only changing what we're eating, but also our patterns of eating. you know so going from our current six episodes of eating every day back to perhaps what our ancestors were doing as two large substantial meals and also our exercise patterns not being as sedentary better sleeping patterns all these things that would then get us back on the same wavelength as our genes have determined you know for our energy to be stored our metabolism to be working maximally.

34:46Do we understand how these ultra-processed foods can end up damaging your metabolism? Because I think I'm listening to this story that says it's not as simple as just like you're eating too many calories. I think that was where you started, Sean, right? And there's all of this food that is just profoundly different from anything we had before. But do we understand at all how this works? We know there are a number of potential mechanisms. Do disagree with me if you think, Sean, but I don't think we know which ones of them are the most important. we really haven't done enough study on ultra processed foods it's like being a taboo subject many because big food has managed to lobby government to make sure that that you know in the us and the uk we're not doing enough research on this because it's you know we can't touch cheap food that's for the masses that's political you know we can't go there but there are a number of possible mechanisms one is the speed of which you eat is much different with ultra processed food so it might bypass some of these evolutionary mechanisms for feeling full.

35:47So that's one that all our ancestors would have taken much longer to eat that food. Therefore, feeling full, those signals would have come in, which they don't come now. Then you've got the softness of the food, which means it's like baby food we're eating. So your jaw doesn't get the same workout. And there's evidence that the jaws of children now are receding. But if you've seen this, that dentists are very worried that every 10 years our jaws are getting smaller because they're just not used to actually eating real food. So, you know, that's crazy. You're basically saying that they don't eat.

36:20It's sort of like you're not working out your jaw muscle enough and your jaw is actually not growing. Yeah. Many people actually spend the whole life eating baby food. Now, this is phenomenon is called vanishing caloric density, right? So we have these foods like a Cheeto, for example, and it's like so robust when you first bite into it, then it disappears. right and it gives us illusion of crunch and density and so also we'll continue to eat a lot of it and overeat it and it's designed to be that way because the way that we evolved we have certain senses and receptors that are very sensitive to flavor and like an overabundance of flavor and so it's them having the right designing the right amount of intense flavor but then to be able to back off with other compounds and just put it at this right level.

37:09And also if we're eating a quote real food, right? There's a certain amount of chicken that you might eat. And you're just like, I'm done with this chicken. Like I can't eat another bite or the same thing would hold true, you know, with eating an avocado per se. Like as we're eating a real food, our bodies start to rebel against it. Like that's enough. I've had enough. It doesn't happen like that. The ad is literally, I bet you can't eat just one. That's the Frito-Lay mantra, all right? They're literally saying, you can't just eat one of these chips. You're going to eat the bag. And you've got to fight yourself to stop eating it.

37:45It's designed to be that way. It's brilliant, but it's also kind of like a Dr. Evil level of brilliance. It's sort of terrifying, isn't it? The way he describes it, it's like, we've carefully designed this so you're going to be unable to stop eating it. We're going to beat your genes, yeah. All that evolution is worthless. You're powerless in our control. And of course, the chemicals in these products themselves have effects on our body that, again, our genes and evolution haven't prepared us for. So many of them are totally artificial in that they come from the petrol industry, for most of the artificial sweeteners, and they can disrupt the gut microbes, and they produce chemicals that can themselves cause diabetes in other animals and send off anti-metabolic signals to the rest of the body.

38:31So when you eat some of these junk foods that Sean's talking about, they regularly contain artificial sweeteners, emulsifiers, preservatives. And these are not things that our ancestors ever encountered or we have genes evolved to. So when they get down to the level of our gut microbes, who would normally be processing them, They encounter them, they bash into them. And when they see something like an artificial sweetener, they produce chemicals in response to try and break it down. They can't break it down, but the chemicals they produce can go on and make you more like to get diabetes. They can send signals to the rest of the body saying, there's something going on here.

39:14I don't really understand it. It's like an alert signal. It forms inflammatory signals or it stimulates the immune system or it messes up the metabolic system. And that's what lots of basic research has shown. And you get similar effects with emulsifiers, which glue some of these products together, these potato chips and things always contain these glues to make it look like real food. And when your microbes encounter them, you get similar results. They can clump together so they don't work very well. They get stuck together. And these emulsifiers also affect the gut lining so that you get leakiness of bacteria across into the blood, and that can cause other metabolic disturbances.

39:57So these are just a few of the possible ways in which our bad food environment is messing up our energy management system, our metabolism, and that's why we're in this mess. We talked about a number of different causes behind this metabolic disease. Do you think that food is the number one, or how do you think about that? Yeah, I see it as definitely the number one obvious one that's really changed. I think, yes, there are these pollutants and plastics, but we don't yet know how much of a problem they are yet. We know they're a problem, but we don't know how big it is. We should be very wary about it, but I think we do know enough about ultra-processed food now to know that is a definite real problem for everybody.

40:44These other ones, we're just starting to get information on them. I give you a very explicit reason why food is the number one is because all of our tissues are made of food. Every single one of the trillions of cells that I mentioned is literally made from the food that we eat. And so we're determining what we're making our tissues out of. And also the energy that our bodies are running on is made from the food that we're eating. And so So if we've got, you know, our mutual friend, Will Bolsiewicz, who he went to school for like forever, you know, 15 years or something to be a top tier gastroenterologist.

41:20He was not taught that when he's looking at his patient's gut health or looking at, you know, the stomach, the large intestine, the small intestine, that all of those organs are made from the food that his patient has eaten. All right? So the organs responsible for digestion, assimilation, and elimination are made from the food that the people are eating itself, right? Cardiology, same thing. We've got these experts looking at the heart health and the cardiovascular health of their patients. I know the very best in the field. These are my friends and colleagues. They're not taught that when they're looking at their patient's heart or their arteries or their veins that they're looking at their patient's food that they've eaten, let alone what the blood is made of and the list goes on and on and on.

42:07So that's why food is so powerful to affect change is because it's making all of the parts. And so if we are going to improve our metabolic health, we've got to make our parts and our energy out of the best things possible. What do you say, Sean, to people that say, it's not about food. We can just tweak the mitochondria. Mitochondria, Jonathan, are these little bits of the cell that we call them the batteries of the cell. And so all our cells have this little mitochondria and they have their own set of genes and things. And there are many people out there who are selling products to enhance your mitochondria.

42:46And if you just tweak those mitochondria just a little bit, give them a little 5 % more, we can reset everything. I'd be interested in your views on that rather than this more holistic view that we've been talking about. Do you think there is a quick fix through our mitochondria? I'm sure there are things that can affect the efficiency and health of the mitochondria at a micro scale, but it is this whole system function. By the way, just to get some context with the mitochondria, about 10 % of our body's mass, about 10 % of our weight is made of the mitochondria. We have a ton of mitochondria in our bodies.

43:26And so there isn't one thing that's is going to fix all of that and make it run better. And keeping that in mind, the mitochondria are really the end destination for certain processes to take place, right? The quote, burning of fuel. But even with that, even with that, there are so many steps preceding that. And there are so many steps after, because if we're just talking about in the context of quote, burning fat. Well, I was taught in school like lipolysis, right? Which is the freeing of the fat to be used as energy, but it still has to make its way. It still has to make its way to the mitochondria, right?

44:06We're not just, again, we can't just address the mitochondria. We've got to address all of the efficiency of this energy getting released to even get there and to be used in the first place. I'd love actually to talk about, you know, what can our listeners do and what are the actions? And before we talk about food, you actually wrote a bestselling book called Sleep Smarter. Is there any role for sleep within improving this? And maybe just help us say like, if we were going to try and run through now, like what are the things you can really do? What would you be saying to that? Absolutely. So sleep is another one of these epicaloric controllers or epigenetic controllers.

44:42and I think the best way to paint this picture is from scientists at the University of Chicago. And they did a ward study, all right, in a controlled setting, crossover study, looking at how does our sleep impact our metabolism, all right? And so they had test subjects to get an ample amount of sleep for about two weeks. So this was eight and a half hours of sleep, but they put them on a calorie-restricted diet, all right? just to monitor weight loss and body fat loss as well. And so, yeah, they collected all the data. Another part of the study, again, it's a crossover study. So they have a washout period.

45:21Now they sleep deprive them. They're on the same diet and different test subjects are doing different things at different times. It's a controlled environment. They're eating the same amount of food, same amount of calories, but now they sleep deprive them and they're only getting five and a half hours of sleep. Collect all that data for about two weeks. After they compiled the data, when test subjects were well rested, they lost about 50 % more body fat mass doing the same exact thing. They're eating the same amount of calories, but by getting more sleep, they lost more actual body fat. All right.

45:55If we're looking at this through the lens of metabolic health, the metabolic health was improved when they were getting better sleep. Now here's a part of study that I don't talk about a lot. Where is that energy coming from when they're losing weight? Where's that energy coming from, when they were sleep deprived, they were losing more muscle, upwards of 60 % more of the weight loss because they were in a calorie restriction, but they were losing more of their muscle tissue, which is going to make you more metabolically unhealthy long-term, right? So our sleep has a huge, huge impact on our metabolism.

46:29And it might be the big outside of the food itself that we're eating, the other major controller for us to pay attention to. And Sean, is there one thing that I could do to try and improve my metabolism that I could start doing today? There are dozens of things, of course. But if I was to consolidate it down to, I could do two really quick. One, number one would be, what is the biggest disruptor of our sleep today? Factually, it is our technology. So the number one thing in the environment that I would recommend people to do, we've got tons of data on this. If you're on your screen right before bed, that light that's shooting into your brain is throwing off your circadian clock.

47:12Your cell, every cell in your body is getting out of sorts and just trying to figure out what time it is because we evolved being connected to this 24-hour solar day. And so we have this artificial daytime, essentially, when we're on our devices right before bed. And it suppresses our melatonin and increases our cortisol. So you could be physiologically, like you can be exhausted and just pass out. but you're not going to go through your sleep cycle efficiently. So my recommendation, give yourself a little bit of a tech curfew. Now, again, I know that we're adults and we don't like restriction.

47:48Even the word curfew still brings up bad feelings for me. But giving yourself a little bit of a screen curfew, but here's the rub. We cannot take away something that is so attractive for us, like our cell phone, right? like Instagram and all these things that are designed to keep us hooked and entertained, we've got to replace it with something of equal or greater value. That's the key. And so what can you put in that place, that 30 minutes or an hour, if you want to get crazy off your technology, what is going to be unique to you? So some people love to read. You can read a physical book, they still exist.

48:24You can listen to an audio book or podcast. I'm guessing I can't just eat chocolate. That's not the right swap. I mean, Tim knows this as well, the quality of the chocolate, like there's some good chocolate out there that can be beneficial. He always tells me off for wanting to eat it at 11. So I like the idea that you're now telling me that in order to put my phone away, I'm allowed to eat my chocolate. No chocolate on your pillow. No, okay. As a matter of fact, having a cup of maybe like some hot cocoa or cacao with some reishi mushroom, which has been firm to improve our REM sleep, non-REM sleep, overall sleep time, that's a good idea.

48:57And I've been known to do that a time or two. and because there's these precursors in cacao and chocolate where it comes from, like tryptophan, you know, that help convert into melatonin down the road. So the screen curfew, fill that with something of greater equal value, time with your significant other maybe, you know, maybe some intimate time, like fill it with something that feels good. The second thing would be to control your environment that you're sleeping in and to create a sleep sanctuary. the human brain is always looking for automation. And so if you're going into a room and you want to go to get some great sleep, but you're getting into your bed and this is where you do a lot of your work, it's where you do a lot of your scrolling, your brain is going to be looking for that behavior.

49:43All right. So make your bedroom tech-free to the best of your ability and make sure that you get some, here we've got some blackout curtains around, but if you got external light pollution. Some researchers at Cornell University found that just even putting a light behind the test subject's knee was enough to disrupt their sleep cycle. All right, so our skin has photoreceptors as well. So get the room nice and dark and cool and to the best of your ability, keep the technology out of your bedroom, make it a sleep sanctuary. Thank you, Sean. So Tim, what are the best foods to support our metabolic function?

50:20If you were going to give us a brief outline of what actionable advice someone might be able to take. We know that you need to avoid foods that are really going to peak your blood sugar and stress your insulin levels. For many people, changing their breakfast, so not having their normal morning cereal or granola, not having their orange juice, which they would otherwise think is healthy, cutting out some of those fruit smoothies that they've been told are super healthy. So changing in a way what you believe is healthy food, and this is what people learn when they would do the Zoe program. But I think cutting out those sugar spikes is probably the number one thing for metabolic health, if you had a tip, which means that you should replace those generally with higher fat foods, good quality fats, obviously, and plants that have high fiber content so that you're dampening down any sort of sugar spikes, particularly if you're prone to this or there's metabolic diseases in the family.

51:24And so Tim, what's your go-to breakfast? My go-to breakfast is a full fat Greek yogurt mixed with milk kefir and with berries from the freezer. and I generally use the Zoe daily 30 mix now on top of that to give me extra fiber and lots of different plants. Amazing. I have so many more questions, but unfortunately I have hit time. So I'm going to try and do a quick summary on what's quite a complicated topic. And Sean and Tim, please keep me honest. So the biggest thing I'm taking away is that like only 12 % of Americans are metabolically healthy. And you're saying that that number is very similar if you're in the UK or Canada or wherever.

52:09And that's a problem because your metabolism is what's turning food into energy. And if it's not working well, actually the end result is either lots of very serious diseases, but also weight gain and all the results that we see around us. I think the other thing I take away is the culprit seems to change a lot. You both talked a lot about ultra-processed food. And I never heard anybody talk about ultra-processed food when I first started Zoe with Tim eight years ago. So that's a really profound change. And Sean, you shared this amazing study where you were saying, like, literally you had people eat exactly the same sandwich, right?

52:43But one was like a sort of regular sandwich like my grandmother might have eaten. And this other one is like this sort of artificial bread and this artificial cheese-like substance. And you're saying they actually found that your metabolism like slowed down by half with this ultra processed food. So exactly the same number of calories. It looks the same on the outside, but your body is responding really differently. And I think it's another example about how just thinking about calories clearly doesn't help us to understand what happens and how the food we're eating is having this profound impact on us in a way that I think many of us didn't realize.

53:19Then I think we talked about ultra-processed food and the way that it affects us. And one of the things you both talked about is the way that it's like baby food. So you eat it and you don't even realize you're full and it gives you like this intense flavor, but then it disappears. You have to like keep taking one. And these companies even proudly advertise the fact that it like bypasses all your controls and you just can't stop. So there's something quite wrong about that. And then Tim, you explained that for you, a lot of the reasons why you think now this ultra processed food is so harmful is the way that it sort of messes up our microbiome.

53:51And I have to say, when you describe the food being full of glue, I don't know about you, but I don't really like the idea that my food is full of glue. It's definitely not like a big ingredient that they put on the front, but like these glues and sweeteners are somehow affecting the microbiome and they can't cope with it. And then it's sending these chemicals that are sort of messing up our microbiome. But then we did come to some like really positive, actionable advice. And I love the fact it's not just about food. And so Sean, I think you said like sleeping better, that these experiments show that like sleeping better can have a profoundly positive impact on your metabolism.

54:25And you said, if you were just going to pick two, so you have a whole book, I'm sure with many more clues and we'll have a link to that in the show notes. But if you want to think about two, tech curfew. So get the screen turned off before you go to sleep, but be honest, no one likes a curfew. So you need to replace it with something better. So how do you find something else to do in the half hour before you go to sleep that sort of unwinds. And I'm going to really think about that. I think that's really interesting. I'm also going to make sure my wife listens to this bit because we have a constant row about the fact that she brings her phone into the room and she will never listen to me, but maybe she'll listen to you, Sean.

55:05And the second one is sleep sanctuary. So don't associate the place you go to sleep with where you're working, like keep that separate. Otherwise your brain is sort of going to start immediately thinking about things, which I love as an idea. And then we came back to food. And Tim, you said like your number one tip for metabolic health actually is to avoid foods that peak your blood sugar, that actually that sort of spike in blood sugar and collapse is the very particular thing that you're concerned around metabolic health. And so that means you really want to swap out foods that are leading to these really big blood sugar spikes.

55:37And we talked about some of those earlier in the conversation that actually just because they're brown doesn't mean that they don't spike your blood sugar. And that what many of us who are in their 40s or over, we're told about this food pyramid is full of foods that we're told are healthy, but actually, you know, if you eat a lot of brown bread, you're going to have these big spikes. So you just need to moderate that. The biggest place to fix this is your breakfast, because many of us don't realize just how sort of bad our breakfasts are for us in terms of those blood sugar spikes. And so if you want to be like Tim, then you want to have like much more high quality fat rather than sort of this low quality carbohydrates.

56:12And so you went full fat Greek yogurt and kefir and berries and daily 30 to add all the sort of the right plants on top. And that powers you through to lunchtime? It's done pretty well so far. Yep. Brilliant. Sean, thank you so much. I can tell there's many other things we could have covered. So I hope we can get you back in the future. It would be an honor. This has been awesome. Thank you so much. It's been so much fun. Tim, thank you also. Thank you. Now, if you listen to the show regularly, you already believe that changing how you eat can transform your health, but you can only do so much with general advice from a weekly podcast.

56:49If you want to feel much better now and be on the path to live many more healthy years, you need something more. And that's why more than 100 ,000 members trust Zoe each day to help them make the smartest food choices. Combining our world-leading science with your Zoe test results, Zoe is your daily companion to better health for life. So how does it work? Zoe Membership starts with at-home testing to understand your unique body. Then Zoe's app is your health coach, using weekly check-ins and daily guidance to help you shift your food choices to steadily improve your health. I rely on Zoe's advice every day, and truly it has transformed how I feel.

57:30Will you give Zoe a try? The first step is easy. Take our free quiz to find out what Zoe membership could do for you Simply go to zoe.com slash podcast Where as a podcast listener, you'll get 10 % off As always, I'm your host, Jonathan Wolfe Zoe Science and Nutrition is produced by Julie Pinero, Sam Durham and Richard Willen The Zoe Science and Nutrition podcast is not medical advice And if you have any medical concerns, please consult your doctor See you next time

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58:57It's designed to be enjoyed because when a habit brings you joy, you're far more likely to stick with it. So next time you feel like your plate is missing extra plants, do yourself a favor. Try Daily 30. It's a delicious and healthy habit that you'll feel good about and one that your gut will definitely thank you for. By the way, whenever we talk about Daily 30 as a good source of fiber, we're required to say that it contains four grams of total fat per serving. Obviously, that's all amazing healthy fats from plants. So order yours today at zoe.com slash daily30. See you next time.