8 foods that soothe anxiety | Dr. Uma Naidoo

26:56And when we consume them, we get used to them and they taste good. And in the short term, they make people feel good. So they continue to want to do that behavior. So there is like a real thing, which is like, I'm feeling down or anxious. I'm not even talking about somebody who meets your definitions of like a clinical condition that actually like eating a sugary donut or a Coca-Cola with sugar, whatever, that's literally going to trigger something in my brain that's going to give me like a little temporary blip of positivity. Like that is real. And then what I think you're saying is that sort of creates this feedback loop, I get a crash shortly afterwards this, and then I'm like, oh, well, I want to have this again.

27:39So I'm sort of trying to... People don't forget the crash. And they also don't realize what's happening to their insulin and their blood sugar, but they do feel that sort of emotional crash. And then like, well, have you ever wondered why they sell two doughnuts at a time? Well, my theory is that, you know, you have the first doughnut and you experience that and you need that second doughnut. Because you have the high and then the crash from your blood sugar You need another one. And then you need another. And you're not satiated. It's not food that's filling and fiber-filled and nutritious. It's just laid more sugar.

28:10It's really interesting. But you're saying that actually there is this real thing when you're under, you know, if you're anxious, whether you're under stress, it sort of pulls you into this. But then, I mean, your analogy with cocaine is obviously strong. But we all know that if you are feeling stressed, that cocaine is not a good solution to this problem. I don't think anyone listening to this, even anyone who might be using it is going to say, I know it's like, nobody thinks it's a good solution to this. So just to be clear, the connection between sugar and cocaine is this particular research looked at the fact that cocaine tapped into this dopamine reward pathway or reward loop in the same way that sugar does.

28:47What is a dopamine reward loop? So dopamine is a neurotransmitter. And when people use cocaine, it makes them feel good and they want more. Very simply, this research looked at sugar and sugar does the same thing. Makes you feel good, like that donut, and then you want more. So I take it very seriously when people say, you know, I really just can't give up sugar. And I think it's really not about giving it up completely. It's about finding healthy sources and healthy amounts of sugar that you eat. That's fascinating. and I think we just started about like, does stress and anxiety make us crave unhealthy food?

29:27And it sounds like it's in a sense, this stuff that's out there does have this amazing short-term impact on us. And I guess the stress and anxiety is like, it's harder to resist and also like that little buzz that you get, like feels particularly rewarding when you're feeling a bit down. Yes, it does feel rewarding. It's short-lived. Then you might reach out for more or you might not feel good, feel a little bit down, feel more anxious. And it really does create almost a very uncomfortable loop So I can definitely see this pathway where you can get pulled into the ultra-processed food that we're surrounded by.

29:57Just before we talk about switch to, I think, a really positive thing about what are all the things you can do, I just wanted to ask, are there health risks associated with living with chronic stress and anxiety? It's obviously what you're describing as very uncomfortable for how you're feeling. Does it also affect your body and your health? Yes. One of the things that we haven't really touched on is the fact that this is a very integrated and holistic approach to helping people, right? We need to understand that, like I said a few times, the brain and the rest of the body are all connected. Without the brain functioning, the rest of the body cannot work.

30:35So it is, in fact, most important organ in the body. When we are so stressed and anxious, we are doing things that are happening in our body include a heightened cortisol level, heightened level of stress. People may have an impact on metabolism because they are stressed. They may be eating poorly. That may lead to things like leptin resistance over time, which impacts their metabolism. So leptin is the hormone that tells us that before, and eat a plate of food, put it down, put your knife and fork down, and you drink a glass of water and you're done. When you develop leptin resistance, one of the reasons could be extreme stress, you don't feel satiated.

31:17You want a second plate of food. You want cookies after dinner. So I just want to make sure I've got this. You're saying if you're like having long-term stress or anxiety, there's like something you can measure in your body that means you're not able to feel full in the same way. And therefore you're actually going to eat more because it's actually changed the biology of what's going on inside you. So where it's associated with where anxiety and metabolism are associated and where metabolism in our body, which is also associated with mental health. It's a connection that we're really understanding better now.

31:49And the link I'm trying to make is that when we have this chronic persistent stress, one of the ways that it impacts through the lens of nutrition is how we eat. Because if we start to eat poorly over time, it can affect what we call our hunger hormones, and they stop functioning properly. They stop telling us that we're full, that we should stop eating and have a glass of water and maybe watch a television show or take a walk after dinner. It does the opposite. It's, well, I need another plate of food and then I want a dessert. And after dessert, I want a snack. And this is when people start to develop leptin resistance.

32:28So it's one of the consequences of stress through the lens of food. I mean, but this is real science. Like we've really been able to see this change in the leptin resistance that you're talking about? Yes. So leptin resistance can develop. Your metabolism is impacted. Cortisol levels are affected. You may start to gain weight. You may not be able to sleep well. You start to experience more anxiety, all of that. I'd love to switch to like, what are the actionable tips that can help our listeners to gain more control over their mental health? And since this is Zoe Science Nutrition, I'm bound to start by asking about food.

33:03how can we use food to calm our minds? So I would like to answer that question by saying that food is one of the pillars of helping conditions like anxiety, mood disorders, and more. But it is also in conjunction with practices like yoga, meditation, shonyoku or forest bathing, in other words, being close to nature. Maybe it's learning a breathwork exercise. Maybe you like to do Tai Chi, some type of movement, many, many different things. Also things like hydration. Keeping adequately hydrated is critical for really not feeling anxious because dehydration can lead to anxiety. We've talked about the mechanisms and some of the mechanisms, but the way that food can calm the mind is through the selections that we make.

33:56When we're eating fiber-rich, plant-rich diets with healthy fats and healthy proteins from clean sources, we are feeding our body with nutrient-dense foods that are antioxidant-rich, rich in anti-inflammatory substances. You've heard the expression, you know, the color of the rainbow. I like to call it sort of a kaleidoscope of color because it's so many brilliant and beautiful colors. And it represents so many different antioxidants and polyphenols from plants that represent positive substances we are feeding those gut microbes with. And Uma, can you help us understand a bit what happens as you change to this food?

34:36What's going on with these bacteria? And then how does that flow through in a positive way? So I think you've talked a lot about the bad things that could happen. Within these trillions of microbes that live in the gut microbiome, they're the good guys and the bad guys. When we are feeding bad guys, that leads to inflammation. we talked about gut damage, gut lining damage, hyperpermeability or intestinal permeability, that type of stuff, or leaky gut. But when we're feeding the good guys, they are thriving, they're being fed, they're helping us, they break down products called short-chain fatty acids, which take care of the gut, help healing of the gut.

35:12And the moment we start to switch to healthier foods, people will start to notice changes. Sometimes they just notice their sleep starts to improve. Sleep is related to anxiety, or they notice that they don't get up with that horrible pit in their stomach, feeling so anxious about getting to go to work that day. And how fast in your practice when you see people, do you start to see this improvement? Are you seeing that people are waiting, is it years after they start to make these dietary changes that they start to see an impact? Fortunately, it's sooner than that. I have individuals call me within a week to say their sleep is starting to improve.

35:50They're not cured. That would be the wrong term, but they're starting to feel better and they feel much more positive and they want to do more of these nutritional kind of therapies and nutritional treatment plan. But sometimes it's up to like one to three weeks where they really start to notice that they're less anxious. They're waking up better. They're sleeping better. When they're eating healthier, they're satiated or they've eaten a plate of food and they're full. Whereas if they had gotten takeout or other foods, they want more than one bag of fries or whatever it might be that was sort of driving that.

36:25And so they start to feel better. I was thinking, Uma, if you told me that even two years ago, I think I would have been completely shocked. And what's changed between now and then is we at Zoe have something called Zoe Membership, which is our personalized nutrition program. And we ran a full randomized control trial of that that was published in Nature Medicine a few months ago. And so we looked at the outcome of people going through Zoe Membership compared to people following sort of the standard advice in the States. And we got them to report out not just on sort of blood work and waist circumference and things like that, but also on sort of energy and hunger and mood.

37:03And what was totally amazing was we saw these really big improvements in people reporting things about sleep and about mood. And I never would have expected it because it wasn't when the scientists were originally sort of designing this program, it was very much focused on sort of long-term health and improving the microbiome. It wasn't at all thinking about mood or sleep, but there's like these really big statistical changes, which I was shocked by. And so now hearing you talk about this, it sounds as though in a way you're not surprised about that. I'm not because I've seen it in clinical practice for a while.

37:41And I'm grateful that more studies are proving it, like the studies that you all performed. And I also think that science is exciting and evolving, especially around the areas that you all work on at Zoe, because there's this research lab at Harvard associated with Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center that published the study earlier in September of 2024, where they are looking at a gut first approach for conditions like Parkinson's. So they did a cohort study on, I think it was just over 9 ,000 patients and found that those that had mucosal, so that's the lining of the upper GI tract, that was damaged or problematic, and that can be caused by taking medications like NSAIDs.

38:32Examples are ibuprofen, or it could be GERD, gastroesophageal reflux disease. It could be ulcers from things like H. pylori that can cause damage. They were 76 % more prone to developing a clinical diagnosis of Parkinson's. So by looking at a gut-first approach, all I'm speaking to is sort of the power of the microbiome, they're wondering about where does Parkinson's really originate? We'd always thought it was more of a brain-based disease. But when we look at patients who develop Parkinson's disease early on, they have gut symptoms. They might have nausea, they might have constipation and discomfort in their gut.

39:14And it's often happens many, many years, even more than a decade before the actual diagnosis that has more of a neurological, psychological feel to it, the symptoms that show up. So, you know, it's fascinating work. That's amazing. So you're saying, this is obviously very early science. Yes. It's really exciting that you're sharing with it, that they're actually saying that there might actually be a link, you know, it's issues that are starting in your gut, turning into Parkinson's, you know, maybe 10 years later. And I guess another example of the link you're describing between the gut and the brain.

39:46Correct. Exactly. I think we have to follow the science and we also have to be humble about it because it does change and evolve all the time. Like I think the research done in the UK that in to some extent upended some of the serotonin hypothesis of conditions like depression was very compelling. But that doesn't mean you should stop taking Prozac. It means you should have a discussion with your doctor. And it sounds like there's in fact, from the way you described that, there's a lot we don't understand about how mental health works. There's a lot we don't understand. And to me, that was something that really pushed me in the direction of nutrition.

40:22Not only did I feel compelled to find more solutions for my patients, I felt that it was a stone we'd been leaving unturned. We were prescribing all these heavy hitting medications that in fact had side effects like weight gain or other problems, but we were not really addressing real lifestyle and diet, you know, so other than a checkbox collecting someone's weight and height. We were not really asking about what they were doing that could help them with food. And Uma, if someone's listening to this now, they're saying like, I'm sold, I want to make changes, I am living with anxiety, or even if it's not clinically diagnosed, like I feel like I have a lot of anxiety in my life.

41:01What is the sort of specific advice you would give thinking about food to someone who wants to make changes that would maximize the benefit? If I could just also add to what you said, as I answered the question, that it may not be that you have a diagnosis, but you're feeling this way. And this is a very powerful tool that can help you. Food is one of the things that can help you, including things like breathwork exercise, exercise itself, and other things. Even sunlight are important. So I have three steps that I ask people to take, and I have the mnemonic SOAR, S-A-W. So the one is SWAP. So SWAP, one unhealthy food to get started.

41:39So maybe you started eating ice cream every night during the pandemic. Can you create a recipe that I have, for example, for ice cream made from fruit and swap that out? Or can you start to eat less of it? So the first thing is swap. Swap at least one unhealthy food habit that you have. It may be that you're not drinking enough water. It could be that. The second is add. So add in healthy, add in a healthy food. An easy way to start is adding in lots more vegetables, colorful vegetables to your diet. Things like colorful peppers, lettuces, greens, spinach, whatever it is you might like. Adding those in are low calorie.

42:18So cruciferous vegetables like cauliflower and broccoli and Brussels sprouts, low calorie, and can be added in to your meals that are both going to help you feel full, but they're also giving your body nutrients and antioxidants and anti-inflammatory substances that your body and your brain need. And the third W is walk. And by walk, I mean movement, exercise, a Zumba class, a yoga class, whatever appeals to you to get you going. Because remember, through the lens of mental health, someone who's anxious may not even want to take a walk. So getting them to take a walk, to buy the newspaper, get a cup of coffee, walk their dog is a way to get them moving and move from that almost paralyzed state of feeling so anxious.

43:03We have a lot of podcasts that talk about exercise and people have been sharing amazing impact. Scientists can talk about amazing impact on health. But does exercise have any impact on your mental health? It does. There's a whole body of research on exercise and mental health. Improving mood, depression. For one simple thing, if you've ever had the experience of running on the treadmill and you say maybe you were really pushing yourself, you didn't feel motivated that day and you spent half an hour on the treadmill and you feel really good after that, you're calling your friends to say, what a great day it is, that's often because of the release of endorphins in your body.

43:38So beyond that, there's a lot more evidence to show that exercise helps mental health, improves depression, lowers anxiety. Some of my clients will say they get on a treadmill for 20 minutes if they feel anxious or do some form of exercise because it almost inhibits the anxiety and it kind of catches it because it distracts them and it gives them something else to do when they're so warped or wrapped up in that anxious moment. I try and work out three times a week because I've been sold about the benefit of my health. But I often tell my trainer, I definitely get no endorphins during the session, but I feel like I get a lot at the end after I feel really good that I've done it.

44:11That's exactly right. At the end of the hour, whatever amount of time, you know, you feel sort of good. And it's like, oh, part of it is the accomplishment of doing it. But also it's the way your body is responding. There really is something real. It's not just about long-term health. I can actually affect my mood with it as well. It can affect your mood. So it's an important, that's why I had, you know, the W in for whatever movement it might be that you're doing that helps you. I'd love to talk about people feeling anxious about their diet and how they can avoid that. And I think it's particularly relevant on this podcast, like most of the long-term listeners to this podcast will be Zoe members.

44:45They'll have been paying for this personalized nutrition program that helps them to feel better and be healthier. And one of the things that we've discovered is that we have to spend a lot of time and effort trying to sort of retrain people because they've been told that lots and lots of foods are off limits, that like these foods are bad and that sort of if they want to improve, it's all about sort of restriction, like calorie restriction, removing bad foods. And the way that Zoe membership works, it's really all about focusing on adding things to their diet to be healthier. There's no calorie count, all of this.

45:20And also, one of the core ideas, which comes from a lot of nutritionists who've been involved in it, is that no food is off limits. But what we find is that lots of people are still feeling really anxious about this, even if they've been on the program for quite a while and they're feeling much better. I guess, what's going on around that anxiety about diet? And do you have any advice to anybody listening about how they can reduce that? Well, I'll speak from the perspective of where I live in the US, which is that we have a very eat this, not that mentality, which I argue against as often as I can so that people feel they can embrace all foods.

45:58Maybe it's the quality and quantity of the food, the source of the food that becomes important. We talked about sugar earlier on, eating some berries or a clementine, a mandarin. These are healthy choices as part of not only a fruit serving, but the fiber and other nutrients have faith that you're on the right path to trying to make things better. It may not be perfect, but you are trying to work on consistency, which is one of the biggest things that will help you. Discipline around your food will help you. The moment that someone starts to feel better, they want to do more of those healthy habits and that you can build on.

46:39If you're feeling anxious about the plan, maybe checking in with your nutrition counselor about it. What's driving that anxiety? Is it the quantity of food? Are you maybe not drinking enough water? Are you maybe eating something? Here's a common mistake that people make. I shouldn't say it's a mistake. It's more that they don't realize, for example, yogurt, rich in probiotics, great food, blueberries, delicious fruit, great source of fiber and anthocyanins, good for your diet. Fruited yogurt, so the fruit in the yogurt, not a good idea, because in the United States, a small half cup serving can have six to eight teaspoons of added sugar.

47:18So often someone might be eating something they think and have heard and read is healthy, but the food industry is not necessarily our friend and is labeling food in a way that you think it's healthy, but it's not because of those added sugars. A simple swap would be plain yogurt with berries and a sprinkle of cinnamon. It's super delicious. You get all the benefits from every ingredient, including the cinnamon. So those types of things may be worth discussing with your counselor or whoever you speak to, to check in about what's driving that anxiety. Or maybe it's that you have too much or too little food in your plan.

48:00It could be many different things. I always take it back to when we were first born. What happens when a baby is born? So if you've ever seen it on television or you work in the ER or the labor and delivery, you know that you want the baby to cry. They take a deep breath. And what happens next? Yeah, they clean them up and all of that, but they feed. So think about food as something very primitive. It's very primary to who we are as humans. And I think that when sometimes we're in situations where you can't eat this or there's a media report that you shouldn't eat that, it really drives anxiety.

48:36Food anxiety is a very big thing. And I feel like, understand you're on a healthy path. Remember, so swap, add, walk. Think about calming foods because I have an acronym, calming, and I also add in foods based on that. So very quickly, C is for choline. Choline is in eggs and legumes. A is for something like antioxidants. L is for liquids. Calming teas like passion flour or chamomile, liquid water, very important. And M is more omegas and magnesium. So many more foods on every letter of the list, but just very quickly think about foods you can start to add that help that anxiety. So if you're on the plan and you're worried about the plan, ask yourself why.

49:24Maybe it's something related to questions you have that are not answered or information you need, but you can also add in foods that could help you even more. Uma, I want to just go through that again, just a little bit more slowly, because it sounded great. You're saying like, for people who are having this anxiety, which might be also anxiety about their list, you had this acronym CALM. Could you just talk me through? It's actually CALMING, but I'm going to share CALM with you in the interest of time. C is choline. Choline is a substance, an important nutrient found in eggs, but it's also found in legumes.

49:58I also think of C, two other Cs, extra dark natural chocolate, great source of magnesium, fiber, and serotonin, believe it or not. So extra dark, we're not talking about candy bars, we're talking about extra dark natural chocolate. And another C is vitamin C. A fun fact is that natural chocolate in that way is the highest source of plant-based iron. You usually get iron in meats. But I can get iron in my dark chocolate? You can get it in your dark chocolate. As anyone who's a regular listener to this will know, I'm completely addicted to dark chocolate. So I love that you're giving me, I think, iron.

50:35And did you say I get serotonin from it as well? So now I know why I'm addicted to it. So this really is my cocaine, is that? Sometimes it takes a while for people to get used to that extra dark version, but it's worth it. But here's the kicker. If you have the extra dark chocolate with a piece of citrus fruit, like a mandarin or clementine, it helps the absorption, the vitamin C helps the absorption of that iron. So always pair that together. And by the way, I happened to learn that in culinary school and I didn't know there was, I think they were really teaching it to us because of flavor, the flavor profile of dark chocolate with citrus, but it actually has some science behind it, which I thought was That's amazing.

51:12So if you pair, and I know we haven't managed to get into the fact that you were trained as a chef, but you're saying if I pair the dark chocolate with like some sort of A citrus fruit. It not only tastes good, you're saying, but actually somehow it unlocks the iron better for my body. It helps, that's right. So we were on sea of calm. Tell me about the other three. A is both ashwagandha, one of my favorite supplements for anxiety. It's very bitter tasting, so it's worth looking into a clean supplement or antioxidants. Think colorful vegetables that we've talked about, colors of the rainbow. All of those really bring you the antioxidants we need, but so do spices, spices and herbs.

51:49L is for liquid. So I want people to remember, the reason I put liquid in is water, just plain water is an important part of that. Hydration is really helpful for anxiety or keeping well hydrated, I should say. And other things like a calming tea that you like could be good too. Do you know someone living with anxiety? Why not share this episode with them right now? Uma's practical advice based on the very latest science could really make a difference. I'm sure they'll thank you. Anuma, is that true? Like can a tea, can that actually affect your anxiety? Yes, it can. Passionflower tea, green tea, all of these actually have some science behind them.

52:33So just having or sipping on that calming tea not only helps you, but it's hydrating and it's calming. And M is for a lot of Americans alone, magnesium. And so I want to remind people to maybe talk to their doctors about getting the magnesium level checked if they're suffering with anxiety. And also the other M is more omega-3s because these are important to get from things like salmon or plant-based sources from hemp seeds and flax seeds. Brilliant. Uma, I have so many more questions. We're sort of out of time, so I want to finish with one last one. So you've already just mentioned that you're also a professional chef on top of everything else, which sounds like a high bar if you have any children to keep up with any of this.

53:18To end with, can you share with all of the listeners here one of your favorite ways to maybe eat some of this food that is really good for you and good for your anxiety, but also tastes great? So I love to talk about, and I designed these four forms. This is the fun part of my consultation, design a nutritional psychiatry treatment plan, but a nutritional psychiatry plate. and the anti-anxiety plate is based on a list of anti-anxiety foods and a list of the anti-anxiety protocol that I designed that matches up with recipes. So one of my favorites is a simple plate. I think about it this way. Half of my plate has leafy greens and colorful vegetables.

54:03Maybe it's steamed spinach with good flavorings and a lovely salad along with that. The other component is a healthy fat. I might have some sliced avocado or I have an olive oil dressing in my salad. Another way to get the fat, nuts and seeds always. For a clean protein, I like things like a baked tofu or even air fried tofu for crispiness or something like a cauliflower steak. But I flavor these with, I'll use a tikka masala. It's a great way to flavor up something like cauliflower steak or chicken, whichever might be your choice. That's one of my favorite meals because it has the components, of course, my glass of water, but it has the components that I need.

54:46And my legumes give me my protein and the tofu added protein, a little bit from cauliflower, but it also is all the vegetables, all the fiber my body needs and not seeds, the healthy fats. And for whole grains, I might do like a small serving of quinoa, which brings me fiber and protein, all good for the gut and kind of all in balance. But really 50 % of that plate is the vegetables. Do you have a recipe of that to share somewhere? Can we link to it in the show notes? Yes. Cauliflower tikka masala is in the recipe section of my book. Fantastic. Well, we will share links on the show notes to the book and also where any listeners can find out more.

55:30I know that you're also sharing some things online, so we'd love to do that. we're coming towards the end. I would like to try and do a quick summary if that's all right. And please correct me where I get it wrong. I mean, I think one of the things you made really clear is that the brain and the body are deeply connected. And so this idea that, you know, suddenly I was brought up with that these are separate just isn't true. That's not what the science shows. And that interestingly, you know, the gut and the brain are like deeply connected. And that seems to be so important for understanding things like anxiety.

56:01You told us about this wonderful dopamine reward loop where I'm now thinking about donuts can be like cocaine. They're literally setting my brain on fire. And then I crash and then I want it again. And we know that's not very good with cocaine. And you're saying you can get the same thing with sugar and these foods that have this very freely available sugar, which is different from sugar that would be inside some fruit. It's all sugar, but it's a healthier source. and comes with that. Doesn't trigger this same environment that you're talking about. You helped to explain what anxiety was and the point, what I understood at least as sort of different from just being stressed is like there are these very physical, specific symptoms about sweaty palms and your heart racing, you know, all the way through to not being able to get out of bed, just sort of thoughts racing.

56:50And that interestingly, you know, if you are under a lot of stress or sort of living with anxiety, it actually triggers like, you know, habits in your brain that can be pushing you to eating this unhealthy food, which is then sort of creating this, I guess, sort of negative spiral if you're eating that food that's changing your microbiome, changing how you feel. And if you live with this for long enough, this stress, it actually means, you know, things like your hunger hormones can stop working. And so there really can be this shift that means that then you're going to, you are going to end up overeating as a result of this stress because of like physical changes that you said that, you know, you can measure in the body.

57:24Then I think you shared a whole bunch of like really specific actionable advice, which I love. One that I remember is SOAR, S-A-W. So swap one unhealthy food for something better. Add a healthy food into your diet and then walk. Because sort of surprisingly, exercise isn't just generally good for your health, but it can actually have an impact on your anxiety. Dehydration can lead to anxiety. I had no idea. So you've talked about liquids a lot. You gave me yet another reason why I can eat dark chocolate after dinner. So it has serotonin and iron. And apparently, I just need to add a slice of orange.

58:01I'm going to get all that iron. Calming tea really does work. I had assumed that that was just something that, you know, the manufacturers were selling to convince us, but it's real. And then finally, maybe just to finished, we talked a bit about people feeling anxious about their diet and getting really worried. And I think what you said is people shouldn't feel that food should be off limits. So even like the donut that you're talking about, you shouldn't feel like you can never have it. I'm glad you said that because if I could just say, you know, if it's your birthday and you want a piece of cake, you really should eat it.

58:33I really am opposed to restrictive diets and clinicians who say you should never eat a slice of pizza. It's about what you eat over the longer term, using these different tools to help you that will help balance out your anxiety, your mood, potentially even your weight because you're eating healthier, rather than, you know, worrying about that particular dessert on your birthday or something like that. I absolutely love that. And I think one of the things that we see with everyone who are Zoe members successfully over time is that they are, you know, able to go step by step and they're able to think more about what they're adding in and less about the stuff being off limits.

59:07And I think the other thing, you know, that you mentioned around this is, you know, you don't need to avoid all sugar. Just try and see, could you be taking it more as fruit and less as Coca-Cola? Have faith you're on the right path to make things better, you said. You don't need to be perfect. Sort of work on consistency. And then finally, to wrap up, I just thought you had this great, really concrete example of how hard it is for people to eat well in the modern world. You said, look, plain yogurt is good. Berries are really good. So berries in plain yogurt is really good for you. But if you go to the supermarket and you buy a fruit yogurt, actually, the manufacturer will have very cleverly built this thing that sounds like it's plain yogurt with berries.

59:48But actually, it's this ultra processed food with loads of added sugar and all sorts of other things. So you're in this environment where it's very easy to end up eating food that turns out to be bad for you and I think can create this sort of spiral that you're talking about. That's right. And, you know, I know the amounts of sugar in the US yogurt. So I just want to point out I was quoting that only because you may have a healthier version where you are. Honestly, it's pretty much the same everywhere around the world. I would think. Uma, thank you so much. I thought that was fascinating. I hope that as you continue to do your research, we can get you to come back again in the future.

1:00:23I would love that. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. Bye-bye. Bye. Now, if you listen to the show regularly, you already believe that changing how you eat can transform your health. But you can only do so much with general advice from a weekly podcast. If you want to feel much better now and be on the path to live many more healthy years, you need something more. And that's why more than 100 ,000 members trust Zoe each day to help them make the smartest food choices. Combining our world-leading science with your Zoe test results, Zoe is your daily companion to better health for life.

1:00:58So how does it work? Zoe membership starts with at-home testing to understand your unique body. then Zoe's app is your health coach using weekly check-ins and daily guidance to help you shift your food choices to steadily improve your health. I rely on Zoe's advice every day and truly it has transformed how I feel. Will you give Zoe a try? The first step is easy. Take our free quiz to find out what Zoe membership could do for you. Simply go to zoe.com slash podcast, where as a podcast listener, you'll get 10 % off. As always, I'm your host, Jonathan Wolfe. Zoe Science and Nutrition is produced by Julie Pinero, Sam Durham, and Richard Willen.

1:01:40The Zoe Science and Nutrition podcast is not medical advice. And if you have any medical concerns, please consult your doctor. See you next time.

1:02:07As you can imagine, hosting this podcast, running Zoe, juggling family life, it all keeps me pretty busy. So I try as best I can to stay energized and show up well in all those parts of my life by fueling my body with the right food, by exercising, and by adding a scoop of Daily 30 to my meals every day. If you haven't heard of Daily 30 yet, it's the gut supplement designed by our gut health scientists here at Zoe. It's made of over 30 high quality hand-picked plants, including seaweed, fungi, and different types of fiber. Better yet, it contains ingredients that support gut health, digestion, and energy, which is ideal for packed calendars and busy lives.

1:02:51Simply add one scoop a day to any meal for an extra boost of fiber and plant diversity. And because it tastes delicious on just about anything and adds a satisfying crunch, it quite quickly slots into your life, becoming a daily healthy habit you'll always have time for. By the way, whenever we talk about Daily 30 as a good source of fiber, we're required to say that it contains four grams of total fat per serving. Obviously, that's all amazing healthy fats from plants. so order yours today at zoe.com daily 30 thanks for listening and see you next time