Beat stress with science: 4 key techniques for stress relief with Dr Rangan Chatterjee

27:42That's fascinating. One follow-on question just listening to this because you said that this is actually a lot worse even than 10 years ago not just 22. What do you think has changed like even in the last decade that means that the stress is higher? Because some of the things you're talking about are like modern life with we have an alarm clock and we go to the office. This has been true for quite a long time. So what is it that's shifted more recently? I think there are a number of different things. My view on this, having studied this for a number of years now, is that we as humans are really resilient.

28:23We can actually handle a lot of stress. I think it's important to say that. What's happened, I think, over the last 10 years is we don't have daily time where we are allowing ourselves to recover from the stress that we accumulate. And I think one of the big causes of this is technology. Now, it's easy to blame technology for everything. And of course, there are loads of benefits of technology. But one of the major downsides for me is that 20, 30 years ago, you could basically come home from your work and you were pretty much switched off for most people. You'd have dinner, maybe at home, you might watch some television in the evening, but you weren't able to stay engaged.

29:03So this blurring of boundaries between home life and work life, I think is a huge problem, probably one of the biggest problems. And I think all we need to do is go, well, I tell you what, what would happen if each evening, we just paid a bit of attention to recovery, a bit of attention to say, I'm going to switch off now. I'm going to let things reset so I'm ready for tomorrow. It would help our sleep. It would help our stress levels. It would help the quality of our lives. And it's not just me who is saying that stress is a massive problem. There's loads of research supporting that, Jonathan.

29:40The World Health Organization, I think back in 2018, put on their website that stress is the health epidemic of the 21st century. That's extraordinary. It is extraordinary. Isn't it? So I'm really intrigued by this because my background is really data science. That's how I eventually got to Zoe and met him also with my co-founder, George. So I'm quite familiar with the way that the algorithms behind a Instagram or a YouTube or something like this works. And I think what's clear to me now in a way that definitely wasn't clear to me a decade ago is they basically hack the way that human beings work, that they are designed to take this attention.

30:27And I think the way you're describing this with stress is almost like, like capture that way that our body is set to worry about a lion with this thing that is going to constantly trigger with notifications that are constantly going to go off and tell you that you need to look at this, this little sense that there's something exciting or possibly scary, right? you're going to roll in. And that is clearly very different, particularly with a phone, right? Even if maybe 15 years ago, quite a few people had this with a computer, the fact that now we take this around with us all the time, we can take it into your bedroom.

31:01We have to acknowledge that these phones are a huge source of distraction. And we have to realize that it's not our fault, right? It's not that we're fundamentally flawed that we can't resist these things, they are designed to be irresistible. And so, you know, I'm currently deep in the latter stages of writing my sixth book. And I have to, in the morning when I protect some time for deep work, I have to put my phone either in another room or upstairs in my house if I'm writing downstairs, because otherwise I will get pulled into it. One of the questions that we had a lot from listeners was whether stress impacts women and men in the same way always.

31:42And I was just curious about what the science says about that. Yeah, there is some research on that. I think men and women do perceive stress differently. And a huge part of stress is perception, you know, how we interpret things. And look, it's very hard to say that this is the case in every single individual. But as a broad rule, the research that I've seen suggests that women will internalize stress a lot more than men. So men might talk about it, they may rage about something, bang their hands, maybe want to go and work out that stress from their body in some way. Whereas it appears from the research that women tend to internalize it more and keep it within.

32:24Okay. So these are obviously broad averages, but you see this and you see this through your - There does seem to be a slight difference. That's really interesting. I'd love to talk about your strategies for actually coping with stress? Because I know this is something that, as you said, you wrote a book on, you're really focused on with your patients. And I think you also said, interestingly, at the beginning, that there isn't just one strategy that works for everybody. So someone's listening to this and they're like, yeah, I'm way over the top with stress. I'm now really anxious about all the way that that's going to impact my health.

32:57Can you give this listener something positive that they could actually do with like real evidence that can can help yeah so i think the first thing anyone looking for advice on stress needs to really acknowledge to themselves is how much stress is in their life right we need to just go you know what i've tried to put it to the side but i do think that chronic stress is an issue fine then all you have to understand is that look, we all respond differently to stress reduction practices. I'm going to mention a few practical things now. See if one of those resonates that you can bring into your life.

33:34Don't try and do them all. That will be too much. So I think the most powerful thing anyone can do to lower stress is to understand the power of their breath. The way we breathe is information for our bodies. There was some research done at UCLA, which showed that 80 % of office workers, when they look at their emails, change the way that they breathe. That's amazing. Right? So what happens? We breathe a bit quicker, a bit more shallowly, and a bit more from our chest than our diaphragm. And what does that do? Diaphragm is like where your guts are, is that? Exactly. And that sends a stress signal to the brain.

34:09It says to your brain, there is danger. It's not calm in my environment. Your brain then sends a message back down to encourage you to keep breathing in that manner. So it's a feed forward cycle. But that means you can actually hack that. Now the word hack is overused, but breathing really is a hack because if you slow your breath down intentionally and consciously, you can start sending calm signals up to your brain rather than stress signals. And there's a lot of scientific evidence showing us that intentional breathing practices can lower our stress levels. My favorite one is what I call the three, four, five breath.

34:47And this is based upon the scientific principle that anytime your out breath is longer than your in breath, you help to switch off the stress part of your nervous system and activate the relaxation part. This is literally going to change what's going on inside. In real time. So if you think about those micro stress doses, even if someone can't change that, but they're at 2pm, they're feeling frazzled, they've got a meeting, they're feeling reactive, even one minute of three, four, five breathing will start to lower their stress levels and make them more engaged and focused for the afternoon, right?

35:22So the three, four, five breath is you breathe in for a count of three. Okay. You hold for four and you breathe out for five. So we know that with that longer out breath, you are changing your physiology. Now the three, four, five breath takes 12 seconds. Five of them take one minute. So I've been teaching this for years to students who are nervous before exams. I remember some of my patients who were teachers who would find the afternoons really stressful. They would do it in their staff room at lunchtime. High-flying business executives before meetings. And all of them have reported back to me.

35:59Well, pretty much all of them, not everyone, because we all respond differently, that it makes a massive difference. And also, maybe related to some of your listeners, Jonathan, a lot of people feel that they are reacting to certain foods these days. And of course, there are intolerances, there are allergies. But one thing I've also found with my patients is that sometimes people aren't actually reacting to the foods, they're reacting to the fats, that they're in a stressed state when eating foods. So if you do the three, four, five breath for one minute before lunch or before dinner or before breakfast, you will find that you're much more calm.

36:36Your rest and digest system is going to be working better. And you may just find that you're digesting food better. So the three, four, five breath is one breath that people can try. But there's another breath, right, called the box breathing that apparently the US Navy SEALs use before they go into combat. You look at it like a box. So you breathe in for four, you hold for four, you breathe out for four, and you hold for four again. Now, if some people find four too much, some of my patients do, I say, okay, go down to two. What you're trying to do is equalize everything. I think the key take home for people is there are a million breathwork practices out there.

37:17We've just mentioned two. I would say for people, experiment with those two, experiment with some others. If you don't like those two, find something that works for you. And you have something in your back pocket that you can take around with you everywhere in your life. You can do it first thing in the morning to really calm yourself and ground yourself like I do each morning, or you can do it when you're feeling stressed in the day. But in terms of stress reduction strategies, I think there's nothing more powerful than the breath. And what I love about it - And you have this built into your routine in the morning.

37:50So you think about this, you just do this once. I do it as soon as I get out of bed. I do one minute of that. I literally get out of bed, I sit on the side of my bed, and I've conditioned myself now to do that before I do anything else. And what I love about breathwork practices, Jonathan, is that they're free and they're accessible. There's loads of studies now on breathing that's been growing for the last few years. I think Professor Andrew Huberman over the last couple of years has been testing a variety of different breaths. And he tested something called a physiological sigh, which is two inhales and then a long exhale compared to some forms of other breathing and from recollection his research suggested that the physiological sigh might be the quickest and most effective way to calm our nervous system in real time now you said that there isn't just one thing that works for everybody so you've talked about breathing are there other things that people could yeah i mean like that we could do a whole hour on different strategies but to make it really practical breath work is one of them i would say let's not neglect exercise okay and i prefer the word movement really to exercise okay again think about it on an evolutionary level what is the stress response doing it's priming your body to move in many ways to run but often we're getting stress now by looking at our laptops and our email inboxes.

39:14Your body's getting primed to move, but we're not moving. We're sat on our bums all day, right? And I think many cases of anxiety and chronic stress would be hugely alleviated by regular movement. In the moment, that could be, you know what? I'm feeling really, really stressed. I'm going to do one minute of jumping jacks or skipping. I will often do this between patients when I'm feeling my stress load going. I find And it's a very quick way of burning off that stress. What does the research show us? The research shows that people who exercise regularly, they are more resilient to stress. And I think it's because exercise really works out your stress response system.

39:53By practicing that stress response in your body, you get better at it. There was some really interesting mice research done at Princeton in 2013, where they showed that mice who exercise vigorously had higher levels of the calming neurotransmitter GABA. And I think that starts to be replicated in human studies. So it's really, really fascinating. Again, it doesn't mean you have to become a marathon runner, but just regular bits of movement. And so that's interesting. I never thought about this. You know, I think people listen to the podcast regularly know that I do go to the gym regularly because I believe it's really important for my long-term health.

40:29And people who know me well will know that I get stressed quite a lot. there's a lot going on. I'm busy. And I have often felt actually that I go into the gym, I tell my trainer, I'm feeling really stressed about whatever it is right now. And at the end of the session, I am less stressed. Partly I feel because I'm just like, I'm tired. And you're saying there's real evidence, in fact, which I'm not talking about that. I actually am reducing my stress. I'm not just helping my health, but I am actually reducing my stress by doing exercise. You absolutely are. And, you know, as I say, exercise, regularly exercising makes you more resilient to stress, but it also helps you burn off and work off that stress.

41:07So I think that is really powerful. And does it have to be like intense exercise? Because I sometimes, I'm thinking back also back to like COVID and just the extraordinary joy there was of going for a walk. You know, if you're in the UK, there was this period when you could just go out for a walk like once a day. And I do remember that it was amazing. And I definitely wasn't like, you know, it was not like hard exercise. Is there? Look, again, this comes back to that overarching principle, which is we all respond differently to different therapeutic interventions, particularly when it comes to stress.

41:43A 20 or 30 minute walk around your block will lower your stress levels, right? You will feel better. Working out vigorously with your trainer in the gym, Jonathan, will also help you do that. And presumably you have to not be using your phone while you're on the walk. I would say for sure, because you really want to use it as a switch off. Look, I'll go for a walk and listen to podcasts for sure, but I'll try my best to not look at the phone, keep it in my pocket or wherever it is, or my backpack and not get it out. I don't want to be checking emails whilst I'm having that stress reduction practice.

42:17And to make this super, super simple for people. This is something I recommend. It's a patience for years. It's what I do every year. I have a five minute strength workout every morning, Jonathan, and I've rarely missed a day in maybe three years. And it's got nothing to do with motivation. It's because I understand the principles of human behavior change. How do you turn new behaviors into long-term habits? In the morning, I'll do some sort of mindfulness and breath work, maybe some meditation just for a few minutes. And then I like a cup of coffee, right? So in my pajamas, I'm in my kitchen, I make my coffee in the cafeteria.

42:55I put all the water - French press, I think they call that in the States, don't they? Yeah. So I weigh the coffee out. I'm pretty particular with how I like it. I pour the water in and then I put a timer on for five minutes because that's how I like my coffee brewed. In those five minutes, I don't go on Instagram. I don't go on email. I basically in my pajamas do a strength workout. Either body weight or there's a kettlebell in my kitchen, I'll do something. And for those of you on audio, Ranga's looking in very good shape. So clearly he's doing something right. No, the point is, I think there are lots of rules of behavior change that we should follow.

43:31The two most important rules, in my experience, as evidenced by the research as well, are number one, you've got to make something easy. And number two, you've got to stick it on to an existing habit. So why have you got to make it easy? A lot of this comes from Professor BJ Fogslab at Stanford, where he did a lot of research on this. He has shown that we overly rely on motivation. There's something in the research called the motivation wave. Motivation goes up and motivation comes down. Now, here's the thing, Jonathan. Often, people might hear what we say about exercise and go, right, I need to do one hour five times a week in the gym.

44:09The problem with that is, if you can do it, great. But for many people, they can't manage that. And so we will do something hard when our motivation is high. But when our motivation drops, as it always does, we'll only do that behavior if it's easy. That's why my workout is five minutes, right? Because I can never say I don't have five minutes. It's easy. I don't need to get changed. I'm literally in my pajamas doing it. So I've ticked off box number one. I made it easy. number two is the best research shows us that where you put that behavior into your day will determine whether it becomes a long-term habit and the very best way to convert new behaviors into habits is to stick it onto an existing habit right making coffee each morning is a habit yeah i don't need a google calendar notification to say wrong and remember to make your coffee it's going to happen automatically.

45:05So by sticking on my workout there, it means I very rarely miss it. It's really clever. So you put it, attach it to this thing that you're going to do because you love your coffees. Of course, you're going to do that. But you could bring whatever is breathing or journaling, which is great for reducing stress or, you know, whatever activity you want to bring in. Why don't you think about applying those two principles? You don't have to do it just with the workout. Now, I do want to make sure that we mentioned human touch because you gave me this fascinating answer at the beginning that there is real science that somehow human touch can affect stress.

45:41Could you tell us about that? Yeah, this is something that I discovered through chatting with Professor Francis McGlone from John Moore's University. He's probably one of the leading touch researchers on the planet. And his research has shown that we have a type of nerve fiber called CT afferent nerve fibers. And when we stimulate those nerve fibers, it sends a message deep into the limbic system within our brain, and it starts to lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol. It's absolutely incredible. So when we think about human touch, we often think about, yeah, like if I touch my hands, I can feel that.

46:20That's touch. Is there anything more to it than that? And very broadly speaking, if you zoom out, there's two types of touch fiber. There's fast touch fibers and there's slow ones. So let's say this was a boiling hot cup of coffee, which it was about an hour ago, but it's not at the moment. And let's say I touch it and it's too hot and I put it down. The first signal that I'm getting is the fast touch nerve fiber. It's simply telling me that there's something hot on my fingers. So you've got to let go right away. You've got to let go. Okay. But there's also a second nerve fiber, which is slower, which delivers the emotional quality to touch.

47:02You've got kids like me. So another way of thinking about this is I remember when my daughter was little and if she would fall over and let's say hurt her knee, initially she'd just stop and rub her knee. But five or six seconds later, that's when she'd start crying. Do you recognize that with your kids? Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't happen immediately because there's two nerve fibers. The first one is the fast one, which is just telling you something happened there. Then a few seconds later, it's the emotional quality to that touch, right? I just assumed it's because they were really young, so they couldn't compute what's going on.

47:38But there are actually two signals. There are two different nerve fibers. And Professor McGlone has actually done most of the research on this. And what's really interesting is those CT afferent nerve fibers, they're all over our body they're on our skin particularly on our forearm and our upper back okay and they have shown in his lab that they are optimally stimulated at five centimeters per second stroking rates okay now nobody strokes another human being thinking about what speed am i doing it at right but what's really interesting in the laboratory if you bring a human onto a wooden arm and you ask it to stroke it they'll they'll do it at all kinds of depths and all kinds of rates.

48:18But when it's on another human arm, you automatically lock into that speed. It's what mothers intuitively do with their children and their babies. And he has shown that when the CT afferent nerve fiber is stimulated, you start to lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Other research on touch has shown us that when it's safe, affectionate touch, and that's an important point that I must bring up. It can not only lower cortisol, it can lower our heart rate, lower our blood pressure, increase the amount of natural killer cells, right? That's a type of immune cell that helps us fight our bacteria and viruses, all from stimulating human touch.

49:01Now, to be really clear, Jonathan, I'm not talking about unwanted touch, right? I know it's relatively obvious, but I think I need to just make that clear. This is about consensual. So this is like somebody that you trust and feel safe with, whether that's a loved one or a friend or something like this. And you know what? Professor McGlone hypothesizes that this is a very important internal reward system for us. And he is hypothesizing that as touch is becoming eroded out of our lives, he's saying because our internal reward systems not being adequately stimulated, we're looking for rewards in other places.

49:40So could one of the reasons why we have so much sugar or spend so much time on our phones or have these low-grade addictions be because we're not getting enough touch? What you're saying is that whether or not that is true, there's something real and physical and like leading scientists are understanding that, that there is this sort of direct link to physical touch into things that sort of deepen our brain. Yeah, 100%. And what's the take home for people? Well, the take home is if you are someone who likes touch, but maybe feels that touch has been eroded out of your life, can you bring that in?

50:14I mean, anyone who's got a pet will know how good it feels to hug a pet. People can self-massage as well, right? If let's say someone's living by themselves. If you don't have anyone in your life where you feel you can hug or have that safe affectionate touch with, you could self-soothe. You could self-massage with some cream or some oil. If you just rub your legs or your forearms, you will be activating those nerve fibers in your body. So that's something you can do. Some people really like massage or things like reflexology. Well, these things are also going to do those things for you. So for that person by themselves, if they've got the resources and if they enjoy it, that could be something that will be very, very beneficial for their health.

51:03I would say the only other thing, and there are many other things we could talk about with respect to stress, I think journaling is something that we really undervalue as a way of managing stress. And can you explain for people who've... Yeah, I know we're nearly out of time, so let me try and keep it super simple. journaling is simply the act of writing down your thoughts right there are millions of ways to do this but it is free it's accessible and we know from the scientific research all kinds of studies have been done on journaling it can help reduce anxiety improve sleep quality reduce rumination lower physical stress and lower emotional stress all kinds of research has been done on the power of journaling.

51:49And that is just writing down basically how you're feeling. Yeah, you can either do it in free form where for five minutes, let's say first thing in the morning with a cup of tea, you just write down anything that comes into your mind. And often people will find that things that they were worried about in their life that they didn't realize start to come out on paper. Or you can do it in a more structured way. So I've been asking my patients for years to ask themselves certain questions. And the most successful questions I found with my patients, the ones that they really found useful, I put in something called a three-question journal, which I've just brought out because I think it's going to be really useful for people.

52:26But these are just three simple questions, for example, in the morning and in the evening that you can answer that will help lower your stress levels. So one of those questions could be, what do you deeply appreciate about your life? It gets you out of rumination and thinking about all the bad things in your life and the news, and you focus it on the good things. Like, I'm grateful for the fact that I can afford to buy healthy food for my family. I'm grateful for the fact that I have a job. I'm grateful for the fact that it's winter and I can afford heating, whatever it might be. There's a lot of scientific research on gratitude and what it does for our physical and psychological wellbeing.

53:07Another question I love, which is the second question that I answer each morning is, what is the most important thing I can do today? This is a lovely question to help you make decisions each day. The more you do it, the more you realize that actually there's only ever one priority. And so this morning, for example, when I answered that question, and there's many things I could have put down, but I put down, when I'm home later and my children come back from school, the most important thing I have to do today is make sure my laptop's down and I look them in the eye and I pay attention to what they're telling me.

53:45Now it sounds so simple, but I promise, because I've seen people do this, when you do that every day, you start to focus your attention on what's important in life. And going back to the start of this conversation, Jonathan, why do so many of us feel so stressed? Because we're running around doing all these kinds of things that may seem important, but are not really the truly important things that actually nourish us. So that's a couple of questions people can think about in the morning. A couple of questions I would really encourage people to do in the evening, which I have found transformative for me and my patients, and it really helps people make better choices in their life.

54:25Just ask yourself two questions each evening. What did I do well today? What can I do differently tomorrow? it. Those questions, if you do them day in, day out, they will lower your stress levels. They will help you create new healthy habits in a very compassionate and non-judgmental way. So that was my sort of quick fire way through journaling. I hope there was something practical in there for the audience. No, no, it's brilliant. And look, I think this has been very motivating and I'm definitely going to take away the breathing. So I'm going to give that a shot because that I can see is manageable.

55:04And I am really interested by what you said about the human touch because I think that one of the things that I most enjoy through Zoe is the discovery of all this science that nobody knew about before. And I think that's remarkable. And we're definitely going to follow up on that scientist that you mentioned because I would love to learn more. Ranga, would it be all right if I did a quick summary of what we have covered? and please correct me where I go wrong. So we started talking about what is stress and you had this brilliant metaphor of like, you know, 200 ,000 years ago and suddenly there's a lion and all these amazing things happen inside your body.

55:41You know, your blood pressure is going up. You're saying even my blood starts to sort of be able to clot differently. And so this is very like immediate and strong physical response. And you said that actually that's good. Like we're designed to have a stress response. It's a healthy thing for us to happen. And actually, you know, you should expect that to happen about, you know, coming onto a podcast, you want to do a good job, whatever. Like, this is a good thing as long as it's not always on. But the problem is that in our modern world, many of us just basically having this stress response on and on and on throughout the day, throughout the month, you know, throughout years.

56:17And actually that then starts to cause direct physical harm. And I think you mentioned diabetes, you mentioned heart disease, you know, you mentioned dementia. And I think you said, you know, your perspective is you think this could even be like the number one cause of ill health because it also leads to other things like the way it affects your eating. So it's pretty scary. You then talked a little bit about sort of your theory about sort of micro stress doses. So this is like building up one after another. And I think you gave me this example where you could like you could before you got out of bed already had about half a dozen stresses from like the alarm going off three times to checking your email to all the rest of it.

56:56And therefore, when you finally are conscious of being stressed and you, you know, shout at your wife or something, which I'm sure I would never do. Actually, this is like the final, it's like the straw that breaks the camel's back on the back of everything else. And you also talked about the fact that you think that it's much worse in your practice, you know, even than 10 years ago. And that although you can't prove it, you feel like technology is an important part of that. And the phones, they're always on, the way they're constantly pinging you, the way that you, you know, there's always the next thing to scroll to, the next thing to listen to.

57:31So that's all quite scary. But the good news is you gave us a lot of things that we could do. And I think there were four. So first you talked about, you started with breathing. And I assume you started because you're particularly excited about that. and you talked about this three, four, five breath, which if I remember rightly is three seconds in, hold for four seconds, out for five seconds. And then repeat. You said, I think five times is one minute and there is going to be a direct impact, like measurable by scientists, reduction in your level of stress. Correct. So that's magic. There was also the box breathing, but that intimidated me a bit because you said that was for Navy SEAL.

58:12So it's interesting that just mental, I'm going for the three, four, five. sounds like karma um movement and exercise so again lots of evidence that if you do exercise you're effectively sort of burning off the stress you're going to lower that because stress is almost preparing you to run away from the lion so by doing this exercise you're almost sort of following through but interestingly you said um you know even going for a walk for many people can lower that stress but don't bring your phone because then potentially you're just sort of like actually just cancelling out that. Or try not to look at it at least.

58:46At least, yes. If you bring it. You're allowed to listen to Rangan's podcast, but don't look at the phone while you're doing it. And I love the fact that you have this model where you're even doing this in your pajamas, like while you're waiting five minutes for the coffee. Then you talked about human touch. And apparently there is a magic way to move your finger. I think you said five centimeters per second. Yeah. Like on, I think you said like your upper back and your lower arms in particular. But I don't want people to stress out and measure the rates at which they're stroking someone at five centimeters per second, you will naturally do that.

59:16You'll do it. Whatever feels natural is actually right. And there is real like impact again, where there's these special nerves that will pick that up. And so, you know, if there's something about touch with somebody that you feel safe with, I think that's really amazing. And then lastly, and briefly, I think you talked about journaling, writing down what's in your mind, reflecting, I think, at the end of each day about like what you did can also really change your stress yeah and we didn't mention nature nature lowers cortisol as well that's but so get as much nature as you can that also works and i would say jonathan the one thing i didn't mention which is a great i think way to finish for people is this idea that if you're chronically stressed the way you see the world starts to change as well you focus in you don't take in the bigger perspective, you become less compassionate, less kind, more divisive.

1:00:12And we are living in a divisive world where people are at each other more and more. So I think there's a real human case as well as a health case to lower our stress levels. I think it will also help us have a kinder and more compassionate and a world that's full of empathy. It's a beautiful way to end. Rangan, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It's been incredible to hear some of Rangan's strategies to reduce stress and regain our mental well-being You can find many more insights from our podcast and download our free guide with our 10 most impactful tips by going to zoe.com slash podcast You can also learn more about how a Zoe membership can help you understand your own body better And how to change what you eat to best support your health And as a podcast listener, you get 10 % off of your membership As always, I'm your host, Jonathan Wolfe.

1:01:06Zoe Science and Nutrition is produced by Yellow Hewins Martin, Richard Willen, and Tilly Fulford. See you next time.

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