Is plant-based meat healthy? What the research shows with Prof. Christopher Gardner

27:10But for that study that he did, all the food was ultra-processed or all the food was minimally processed. This is just the burger part. This is just 25 % of the calories and 75 % are the things that they were normally eating. Let me clarify one point. We did say, so we only provided the red meat or the beyond meat. We didn't provide the buns for the burgers. So if you had been a participant, we would have said, so do you like whole wheat buns or white buns? We want you to have the whole wheat, but we realize you might like white buns better. If you have white buns on one phase of this, you have to have white buns on the other.

27:46We want you to have an heirloom tomato on your burger from the farmer's market, but if you have a store-bought crappy tomato on one burger, you have to have it on the other burger. So what we ask everybody is that you have, other than these meat products, you keep everything else the same within reason. So everything else was the same, and we drew up all this nutritional data. And so it really shouldn't be a surprise. TMAO was lower. LDL cholesterol was lower. Weight was a surprise. And not a surprise that blood pressure wasn't any different. So three wins for plant-based over red meat, if we're talking about health.

28:28Three things they were getting slammed for in the press was, it's going to raise your cholesterol, raise your blood pressure, and you're going to be heavier. None of those were found. So Christopher, what's your verdict? Does that mean that it is healthy to swap from red meat to one of these? Yes, it is healthier. Like these are standard clinical measures that we have and it won. And so that's my job is to do these tests. So I think the follow-on, I have many different follow-on questions. I mean, one is you tested one particular brand of meat alternative in part because it sounds like they were willing to fund your study.

29:09Yes. Would you expect them to be wildly different? And also this was, you know, as always, a few years ago now, like would you expect them to be wildly different? Or do you feel that the sets of alternatives that are designed to sort of taste like meat actually are quite similar? Yeah, I mean, the rationale for this is that beans and peas and legumes have the best protein in the plant world. And so most of them making that kind of alternative are using some kind of beans. So again, Impossible uses soy and Beyond uses pea. They're more similar than different. I will say I did a garlic study at one point that didn't work and a farmer called me out.

29:50I used real garlic. And he said, by the way, I grow 99 varieties of garlic. Did you test them all? I said, no. I tested one, but I tested like the most popular one in the US. I said, I don't believe your results because you didn't test all 99. There probably are dozens of plant based burgers. If you really wanted to test them all, it would become unwieldy. You couldn't test them all. I always need grant money though. So if anybody wants me to test them all, I could keep going. But fundamentally, this seems like a good guide to thinking about the meat alternatives that you might find on your grocery store.

30:30Yeah. And hope the listeners appreciate that when you do this, you have to pick one dose, one duration, one type of person, one set of outcomes. And all you got to do is say, ah, but what about half as much? Well, I don't know that answer. I'd have to run that study. What about people who had high cholesterol to begin with? Yeah, I didn't pick that either. Technically, that could be another answer, but I can only answer one sort of narrow question at a time. So this isn't the end-all be-all answer, but there were no studies like this before we did it. Now, I want to come back to the question that we asked at the beginning about the quality of the protein, because this came up a lot.

31:11One of the reasons I think that people eat red meat is they feel like they're getting this quality protein and they're worried about that. And you're saying that the protein here is sort of extracted from particular bean. Is the quality of the protein in the meat alternative as good as the protein that you're getting from the real meat? Yeah. So I would like to rely on a very popular Zoe podcast where I did my protein rant to show So that there is a whole podcast on that. I agree if people want to get into it. But for this particular topic, because there we were talking about whole foods, and here you're talking about this ultra-processed thing that some scientists created in a lab.

31:54So I think it's a fair question. How does that compare with the protein you would get from a red meat? So the protein in beans and plants is more abundant and closer to the amino acid profile. So the amino acids are the building blocks of protein. there's 20 of them. We all need all 20. Not just all 20, but we need them in specific proportions. And sort of a myth that's out there in the protein world is that plants are missing some of those, and they're not. All plants have all 20 amino acids. The critique that is fair is that some of the amino acids are not in ideal proportions, which means some of them would run out sooner than you need them to run out if you are only just barely meeting your daily requirement.

32:41But the truth is most Americans get much more protein than they need for the day. And so the exact distribution isn't quite as important. So this was plenty of protein. They were getting plenty of protein to build muscle, to maintain muscle. It was easily adequate what they were getting from these burgers. And so, which means they're getting, you're saying it's not necessarily exactly the same profile of these sort of amino acids as in like a steak, say, but it gives you everything that you need. So you just really don't need to worry about it. Is that red meat is better, but only if you're at a low enough total protein that each proportion has to be perfect.

33:20If you're getting a much higher total protein than you need, the proportions don't have to be perfect. And would there be anybody therefore who you might be worried about? So I think I've heard on other podcasts that, for example, as you get more elderly, your ability to absorb protein is worse, or there will be people thinking about, I don't know, I'm pregnant, or I'm doing lots and lots of exercise. You know, I'm doing sports at a very serious level, where you would worry about the difference, therefore, between this red meat and these meat alternatives. Yeah, plausible. But for most people, they're getting more than enough, even athletes, even older people, at some level that would kick in, but probably not for these people in the study and probably not for most of your listeners.

34:04Okay. So most people, even if they are like older, you don't think they should certainly worry about that. It's pretty good protein and it's a lot of protein in beans. Got it. So then I think the other question I think that naturally we want to come on to is you did this great study. You were comparing like the difference between meat and meat alternatives. If I had a choice between my meat alternative and moving to something else, how good is that switch to the meat alternative? Yeah, well, I've been trying to get people to eat more beans and more plants for 30 years and don't really feel like I've made much of a dent.

34:44So for me, I'm not ever looking for one to answer in nutrition? I'm looking for dozens. Because for different people, there are different priorities and motivations. I'm kind of hoping these plant-based meats will be a gateway drug to legumes. Like, yes, I made that switch. And now I'm going to try lentils. I would say, and what is a legume? Yeah. Legumes is the overarching family name for beans, peas, lentils, chickpeas, pulses, like that whole family. And it sounds like you're saying those would be a lot healthier as a swap than these meat alternatives? They would have more fiber. They wouldn't be processed, yes.

35:26And just for a quick follow-up, we've published another study since then. Instead of looking at cardiovascular risk factors, we were looking at young athletes. Tell us about that. Who are always super conscious about their protein. They're like obsessed with protein. So we got runners and weightlifters, 12 each. And we had them do the same thing, except we added a third arm. And the third arm was going vegan. Okay. So it was all beans and grains and things like that. That is a radical shift from eating red meat like twice a day. And so we timed their runs. We made a composite score. We added together a bench press, a lateral pull down where you pull down from above.

36:11Chris was doing great explanations visually, by the way, if you're only on audio. No, sorry, I didn't mean to keep going. And you can't see me under the table, but now I'm doing my leg press. So sort of three standard measures that people who do resistance training work out. And we looked at a percent change in those. And the resistance trainers lifted just as much weight and the runners ran just as fast, but not faster on the plant-based meats. But I want to clarify who we picked for this. It's kind of funny. For years, I've wanted to work with Stanford athletes, and the coaches will never let me touch their teams.

36:44Like, stay away. We compete. Don't mess with their diet. Okay. And they all seem to think their athletes need a ton of protein. The population we picked for this was recreational athletes. And to join, you had to have been exercising regularly for two to five years. And I think the average was five years. Like they had always run and they had always lifted weights just for their health. Like these are people who go to the gym or run three times a week, which is more generalizable than elite athletes. So I'm not after the elite athlete here. I'm just after the folks who regularly work out and listen to the bro science on social media that says how much protein you need.

37:23And actually, we had some interesting preconceptions. The resistance trainers thought they would lose muscle and lift less. The runners actually thought they might do better, because a plant-based diet has more carbs. And I think they're more aware of their energy storage for their runs. Anyway, both of those outcomes for the 12 people, it's not a huge trial, but again, a crossover. Everybody did, all three. So they're comparing their running time and their lifting capacity across the three arms. They were only four weeks each. That's another downside. Maybe something else would have happened if we had gone longer, but no difference.

38:01So we published the paper that not only was the plant-based alternative meat equal, but so was the vegan. And so this is really your answer to this sort of protein question, which is because you were expecting to affect potentially your muscles. And you're saying, hey, when you're bench pressing on beans, amazingly, instead of steak, you're still able to bench press just as much at the end of the month than with the steak. Am I understanding that right? And in a table, you could see that sort of the plant-based alternative meat was in the middle for a lot of these things. So there was a little less protein than the animal meat, but more than the plant-based meat, which had the least protein.

38:43The vegan arm had the most carbohydrate. The animal meat had the least carbohydrate. And the plant-based meat alternatives was in the middle. For all kinds of measures, it would go in the direction you would expect for carbohydrate, fiber, saturated fat, cholesterol. and the protein was sort of the most fun. The vegans got less protein. They lifted just as much weight and they ran just as fast because they were getting more than enough protein. Which is back to something that you've discussed with me on another podcast that we're basically being sold this idea that we're all sort of protein depleted.

39:19And I feel like everything in the grocery store now says like high protein or extra protein. And actually you're saying even for these people who are working out a lot compared to most of us in the States or the UK or wherever, they were just fine moving from the red meat to the beans. Now, I guess what they didn't answer was whether or not the beans were healthier because here you were looking more about those sort of exercise things. You weren't looking back to sort of cardiovascular risk, you know, like heart disease or diabetes or things like that. And it would have been harder to see in the second study because these are young, fit athletes.

39:59So they don't really have high cholesterol or high blood sugar or high other things. They were fit, young people. Now I've heard Tim talk about his excitement about more sort of mushroom-based or fermented, like almost bacterial style meat alternatives on the grounds that they're not ultra processed. They're like a whole food that's just put together, probably taste a little less perfectly like meat, which I guess is what you were testing, but don't have those concerns. If someone was thinking here and saying, you know, I am really interested in improving my health, which I think many of the listeners here, that's where they're trying to get to.

40:43So they're open-minded, potentially changing, but they do want to still have that meat taste. What would your expectations be there? Would you expect them to be a more healthy alternative to these sorts of meat alternatives or not necessarily? Yeah, I think there's, yeah, that sounds more whole food based. If it's mushroom based, it'll have a lot less protein. I'm not sure they need the protein, but for those who are obsessed with protein, these plant-based alternative meats do have a very similar amount of protein. Mushrooms, not so much. So I'd love to sort of switch in a way to like practical advice based on this.

41:22You I think it's brilliant to understand that this is real and it looks like, you know, for people who are eating, you know, quite a lot of meat in their diet today, which, you know, many of us are, there is definitely a place for these meat alternatives. So if someone was thinking about switching from meat to meat alternatives, you know, what should they look out for when, you know, they're buying these products? And are there any sort of red flags that would help you to think about it? Because I feel that there's more and more and more of these alternatives being advertised. And right now, I'm actually chair of the American Heart Association's nutrition committee, and we're working on a statement about ultra-processed foods.

42:03And as we go through this and try to explain it and take a position on it, there's really two components to those foods. And one is the physical processing. So here's the bean. I like soybean as an example. Soybean is the whole bean. Tempeh is pretty much the whole bean that's been fermented and stuck together. Soy milk is processed. Tofu comes from the soy milk, so it's further processed. And then you've got soy protein isolate that you add, so you've taken the protein away from the whole bean. You can't even recognize the bean anymore, right? And then you're sort of hitting the ultra-processed.

42:40So one is the physical processing. But in the ultra-processed world, a big part of this is ingredients. It is preservatives, stabilizers, colorants, emulsifiers. So I think what the consumer can do is look at this list of ingredients. So you'll find some of these plant-based meats have one or two of those additives or preservatives in it. But if they look, it's mostly just plain foods other than the pea protein or the soy protein that's extracted. I'm sure in other ones, there's a long list. So we added red dye number three, and we added this preservative, and we added that emulsifier, and we added this other thing.

43:25And so that's their challenge. So I would suggest they look to see the thing that has what Marian Nestle, who's a very well-known nutrition scientist in the U.S., she says, avoiding ultra-processed foods mean you should try to pick things where you could find the ingredients in the store to make it at home. And so it sounds like you're saying, I just wanted to play that back. Like one part is the processing. So the reality is that all of those things have like this isolated pea protein, like you can't find that in your kitchen. So that one part is like, in all of these things, that is this sort of ultra processing you can't get otherwise.

43:59And the second thing is all the things you're adding on top of other things that you've never heard of. And these are like, you know, when you talk about these additives and preservatives and emulsifiers that, again, you wouldn't find in your kitchen. And I've heard some of our guests talk about some of the concerns about how this might interact with our microbiome. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, for the world of ultra-processed food, to be honest, there's a huge overlap in salt, added sugar, and saturated fat. Like many of the addictive ultra-processed foods have those. And a lot of people are questioning, do we really need this new categorization?

44:36Aren't these foods just high in the nutrients that we've been telling people to avoid? And the answer has been no. Part of it is the physical processing and part of it is all the additives that go beyond salt, sugar, and saturated fat. So just to make sure I've got that, what you're saying, because I think this is still a live debate amongst nutritional scientists is my impression. Yes. So it's really interesting you're leading this new committee, you know, before, remind me what you said the name was? Yeah, it's the American Heart Association's Nutrition Committee. We write papers and make scientific advisories on - So that sounds pretty official.

45:12Pretty official. And so it sounds like you are actively addressing this question about what is ultra process and you're saying it's not just, I guess what I grew up with as a kid saying junk food is food that's got like lots of fat in it and salt and sugar. It's this new realization that it's got these other things in it you can't find in your kitchen. I hear Tim talk about it. It's like food-like object or something I think he even calls it. It's not really necessarily food as we understood it. And it sounds like you're saying you're of the view that there's something real about that. There is, but multiple domains and some, I think what happens in the ultra-processed word at this point, using the NOVA criteria, as soon as it has one or two of these, you fall into ultra-processed.

45:56But picture one that has 20 of those and one that has two. I'm pretty sure the one that has 20, I'd be more concerned about. So coming back to my initial question, and I probably got a bit overexcited and pulled this around. You're saying like, you're looking on the back of the pack and you'll see, you might see one which basically just looks like things in your kitchen with maybe the addition of your pea protein that feels to you a lot better than one that has lots of different preservatives and emulsifiers. And that's sort of what you should be looking out for. And then you find one that has none, and it's a lentil black bean burger, and you bring it home, and the meat eater in your family says, I'm not eating that.

46:32That doesn't look or taste like the burger that I wanted. Oh, I'll have this other one. That looks and tastes like it. Oh, no way, you fooled me. It's not. Well, I would love to talk a bit about the next stage. You said, I love this idea that it might be the gateway drug to move you from eating meat. Let's say someone's listening and saying, I've had some of that. And actually, I'd like to go further on my transition away from meat. But actually, there's things about meat that I did really like, the taste in my mouth. Let's say that someone is saying, I am more open-minded to make changes, but I'm not quite ready to just have a salad for the rest of my life.

47:15What would you be advising? And I seem to remember at one point you might've opened a restaurant instead of becoming a nutritional scientist. So tell me what, what are the other ways that you could maybe transition away from this, this red meat and maybe to somewhere even healthier? Yeah. Well, it is true. Mushrooms in this particular case depend, like cooking up a portobello mushroom can feel sort of meaty for that person. You can grill a portobello mushroom. Tempeh is great. So I put tempeh in a lot of my dishes. I think lots of people listening won't know what tempeh is. Could you explain? Yeah.

47:48So it's a fermented soybean product. Interesting how they wrap it up. It's wrapped very tightly in plastic and I can't find it in all the stores that I shop in. But when you open this up, it tends to be about six to eight inches in length, about a half an inch thick and about four inches wide, you can slice it like you would meat. And it holds together in something that you put it in. If you were to slice up tofu, that looks like a marshmallow. Why am I eating? So what is tofu? Soy. It's just soy. Before, so tempeh is like this tofu sort of fermented. Yeah, but the tofu doesn't look, you can't see the beans.

48:29So when you're cutting the tempeh, you can see, oh, wow, that's beans stuck together. You can really see the whole bean, whereas the tofu before it was tofu was milk. So they had boiled and mashed the soybeans to make the milk, and then they coagulated the milk and got the tofu. So tofu or tempeh or mushrooms, but really the whole bean family is probably the best place to go, whether that's a soup or a hummus. it's filling, it's got a lot of fiber, it's got a lot of nutrients in it. It's low in saturated fat, and the fat that it does have is unsaturated, the good stuff. So lots of those. I mean, we also have plant-based milks, we have plant-based cheeses.

49:16I haven't tested those yet. But there really are a lot of really exciting products out there where I would always want you to have the whole food. I'm not recommending that, oh, okay, I'm never going to say these are healthy unless you ask me compared to what. So just to make sure I've got that, you're sort of saying, hey, if you can go beyond the meat alternative that's sort of wrapped up to look like meat, there are a set of other things that you could introduce. And interestingly, it's interesting you jump to something that most people won't have heard of, right? Tempeh, which is the non-ultra processed food, therefore sort of, you know, it's a non-ultra processed food variety that you could have.

50:03You also talked about mushrooms and then sort of beans in general. You're saying, hey, look, if you were able to make the shift towards those being a bigger part of your diet, you're going to have a bigger impact on improving your health. Yes. I mean, partly that's because we have data. that people have been eating beans and mushrooms for thousands of years. They've only been eating this new genre of plant-based meats for years. So we don't know who lives or dies here. So for now, all we can look at is clinical measures that change quickly, like blood values or those types of intermediate markers.

50:37We have the data on the beans and the other things and what it does to clinical markers, and that people on a more plant-based diet live longer, for your heart disease and other chronic diseases. Yes. And part of that presumably is you're getting much more fiber and all these other complex chemicals in the plants that you weren't neither getting in the meat, but also these meat alternatives because of the way they're processed. They're not having some of this complexity and this sort of food for your microbiome and things like this. And just to add one other dimension, because I'm working on a book and I found this really fascinating publication of, okay, yes, the red meat only has red meat.

51:15That's the only ingredient. But what went into making that red meat? The antibiotics, the corn and soy that they were growing for livestock feed, all these other preservatives, all these things that went into the food and the water that they were eating. We'll talk about that for a minute because you said that you looked for like the best red meat in America. And I think for listeners outside of the States, you know, there are definitely differences in countries to do with what the rules are about red meat. And I think that, you know, the rules in the States are less strict than in many other countries.

51:44And so what might have been in the red meat, I guess, is what I'm saying. If you hadn't gone to your special supplier of grass fed meat, like what else might've been in that red meat that you might just generally been eating if you're, you know, ordering it from, you know, a restaurant somewhere, wherever you live. Right. I mean, just to pick a really simple one. So grass-fed beef has more omega-3, which is a hot topic in the world of nutrition, this highly unsaturated fatty acid, than 99 % of the meat that goes through a concentrated animal feeding operation. So other nutrients, other lack of some, presence of others, so that the standard U.S.

52:26meat is not pasture-raised and organic and regeneratively grown. That is a very, very small percentage of the meat in the U.S. Maybe not in Korea, where Kobe beef is very carefully raised, and it's traditional, and they take immense pride in that. I don't think we have immense pride in American meat. And I think one of the things that, you know, I've heard a number of people talk about is the antibiotics that are going into the meat in our diet, like it's still existing in the food that we eat. And therefore, we're tending to eat a whole bunch of antibiotics, which is obviously designed to kill bacteria.

53:04And we have a lot of bacteria inside us in a completely unintended way. Yeah. It's not so much. I don't think that the antibiotics are still present and we're eating it and absorbing it. But in doing that to the animals and seeing runoff from the water that they're using, yeah, the connection is not necessarily as direct as you are eating antibiotics. But there is a connection. This is not my area of specialization. But if you look at, if you're trying to track antibiotic use, 80%, I think it might be down to 70 % in the U.S., goes to livestock. And only 20 % to 30 % is what humans are eating.

53:44And we're coming up with these MRSAs, the resistant bacteria. We're running out of antibacterial solutions in the U.S. because more and more people have become resistant to them. Doctors have been saying for years we need to stop that part, giving it to the animals. So, Christopher, just to wrap up, what's your one key piece of advice that you'd want our listeners to walk away with from this episode? Yep, eat whole foods first, but along the way to that path, consider instead of what. So are these plant-based alternative meats good or bad for you? It needs to be in terms of instead of what. And if you are a regular American eating a lot of the meat that's available in the U.S.

54:34and you wanted to focus on clinical measures, those plant-based alternative meats in our study, which is only one, had better health outcomes. Amazing. Well, I would like to try and do a quick summary of all of this, Christopher. So I think we started by saying what are meat alternatives? And the key to understand is they're designed for someone who is a meat eater and wants to swap out to something that still tastes like the meat they're used to doing. And looks and smells. And it's super familiar and not very threatening. And you ended up doing a study on one of these particular, which was Beyond, who did help fund that.

55:12And I think you described in our bit of beginning, you know, you have all of these protections to try not to be biased, but of course you want to disclose it because of that. They use beans in all of these in order, because they're really high in protein, they are ultra processed, which means that they have to extract these particular proteins and do sort of magical scientific things to them in order to make them taste like meat and be as close as possible to meat. And you did this very elegant study comparing the effects of people eating like a high quality red meat and these meat alternatives.

55:51And it was pretty clear that actually the health benefits of these meat alternatives were better. And you talked about TMAO falling, which apparently is a risk factor from red meat. And I have no idea what that means, but also LDL dropping, which is something that comes up often. And indeed that there was a small amount of weight loss for these people, that anyone worrying about getting the wrong protein from these meat alternatives really shouldn't worry, in large part because basically almost no one should be worrying about whether they're getting enough protein if they are eating a regular diet in the States.

56:29Most people are getting too much. And you did this really elegant study, in fact, with athletes where you compared not only these meat alternatives, but actually also what happened if you went vegan. And it turns out that these athletes were working out a lot, were able to perform just as well, even on a vegan diet, which had significantly less protein than the meat. It was the same with the meat alternative. So in all these cases, like worrying about the protein, you know, unless maybe you're an Olympic athlete or something just doesn't seem worth worrying about, or unless you're in a really extreme case where you're really not eating enough food and you're elderly.

57:05And, you know, so sort of what you describe, I think, is very niche situations. And then we talked a bit about, does that mean that these meat alternatives are like really healthy and everyone listening to this should start eating them? And I think, and Christopher's pulling a face here, as I said it, because I think the answer is no. You're saying like it's a great maybe gateway drug, as you put it, to transition from this like really meat centric diet to something that's much healthier. but actually if you can go towards eating much more whole foods, then actually you're going to get so much more because these foods are still ultra processed.

57:43You talked a little bit about this new work you're doing really defining ultra processed foods for the American Health Association because it's clear that this is something we really need to start worrying about. And I think you gave some examples there for like if you're willing to go further than then mushrooms being a way to replace meat and still tasting quite meat-like. It's going to get you a lot further or tempeh, which is fermented soybean, which is definitely was new to me in the last sort of 18 months. And I've had that experience. It's definitely much more, I would say chickeny or something like that.

58:17I don't think it's going to get anyone who's really out for that experience of a full steak. And that in general, if you could move towards many more beans as one of those things that gives you all of this fiber and everything else, you're going to really get to a much healthier place. So it might be better, but just swapping from red meat to these meat alternatives does not mean that suddenly you're going to, you know, live another decade of healthy years. And we won't get into it because it's the wrap up, but I'm into motivations for making dietary changes and keeping them. And classes that I teach at Stanford for students.

58:55They're very interested in environmental sustainability and animal rights and welfare. The plant-based alternative meats totally win for both of those. So health is a very important component, but there would be other reasons to do it as well. Christopher, thank you so much. That was really clear and amazing to talk to someone who's actually done the studies themselves instead of quoting somebody else's. Thanks for being here. Always fun. Been a pleasure. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. It's really been an eye-opener to hear from Christopher whether we should eat or avoid meat alternatives. Nutrition is a complicated topic, so I hope his advice will really help you next time you're in the grocery store.

59:36Now, if you want to go one step further, you can get personalized advice and support to help you pick the best foods for you. Zoe can help you feel better now and live healthier in the years to come backed by real clinical studies. To learn more and get 10 % off your membership, simply go to zoe.com slash podcast. As always, I'm your host, Jonathan Wolfe. Zoe Science and Nutrition is produced by Yellow Hewins Martin, Richard Willen, and Tilly Fulford. The Zoe Science and Nutrition podcast is not medical advice. It's for general informational purposes only. See you next time.

1:00:29As you can imagine, hosting this podcast, running Zoe, juggling family life, it all keeps me pretty busy. So I try as best I can to stay energized and show up well in all those parts of my life by fueling my body with the right food, by exercising, and by adding a scoop of Daily 30 to my meals every day. If you haven't heard of Daily 30 yet, it's the gut supplement designed by our gut health scientists here at Zoe. It's made of over 30 high quality hand-picked plants, including seaweed, fungi, and different types of fiber. Better yet, it contains ingredients that support gut health, digestion, and energy, which is ideal for packed calendars and busy lives.

1:01:12Simply add one scoop a day to any meal for an extra boost of fiber and plant diversity. And because it tastes delicious on just about anything and adds a satisfying crunch, it quite quickly slots into your life, becoming a daily healthy habit you'll always have time for. By the way, whenever we talk about Daily 30 as a good source of fiber, we're required to say that it contains four grams of total fat per serving. Obviously, that's all amazing healthy fats from plants. so order yours today at zoe.com daily 30 thanks for listening and see you next time