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26:19One of the things, one of the other things that may be doing is responding to bacteria to protect the body. So it's part of the immune system, really. Yeah, and you could view it that way. Because I think this is a huge change in our idea of what fat is. And not only do we know it's metabolically active, but actually it's a key part of our defense an immune system that it can deal with infections. And we've never thought of it in that way. And every year we find out the immune system is actually more complicated than we gave it credit for. So it's yet another way in which our body reacts to threats of infection or autoimmunity.

26:59So yeah, that's really, really fascinating. And when we look at the immune, like the immune milieu, the immune environment of the fat tissue, it looks completely different than healthy tissue and it looks quite different than obese tissue as well. But we are studying that as well from gastric bypass patients, trying to see if what we're observing is more universal than just applied to Crohn's disease. But we definitely see immune cells aggregating throughout the fat tissue almost as like the sentinel sites for mobilization against further bacterial stimulation. a lot of really interesting adaptive immune cells that typically are not there.

27:40And are these microbes one that, as well as liking fat, do they like the inflammation? Because generally, fat cells produce these inflammatory chemicals, don't they? So we don't know if they like the inflamed environment, but we do know they have several immune evasion strategy so they can handle the inflamed environment much better than their counterparts. Do you think there's anything to learn from what you're seeing in these Crohn's patients about the way that this fat is not just this sort of passive store? Is there anything to learn from that for the rest of us? I mean, that's one of our big questions.

28:20We think yes. If you carry forward this hypothesis that fat is acting like a Band-Aid in our body, anywhere where you'll have a breach, you'll have some degree of fat expansion. And we've just been really interested in talking to surgeons, talking to other clinicians in different fields, in nephrology, kidney docs, people who do heart transplants. And we ask, what does the fat look like around these other organs? And we get, for example, in docs who do the kidney transplants, they always say the kidneys that have more fat wrapped around it, those individuals always do worse with their transplant.

28:59And so you shouldn't really have microbes in your kidneys, so it may not be as much of a direct microbial translocation. It could be a microbial signal. I don't know yet. But there is some relationship between this fat wrapping around other organs as well that has to do with what's going on in the organ itself. And so we are trying to collect samples from individuals so we can better understand the microbial component of this. And we did a podcast on cancer and colon cancer and gut cancer. And one of the things that was mentioned, this is a podcast we did a little while ago, was some suggestion that potentially there might be bacteria being implicated in cancers that were not directly in the gut but elsewhere.

29:43And I'm just listening to you talk about this translocation that I never heard of before, which is a very cool name. Is there any reason to believe that these bacteria might ever be getting passed sort of immediately next to the gut wall and into the other, you're talking about your kidneys or your heart or whatever? There's a lot of people studying this right now. People have found not just bacteria, but fungi associated with tumors in cancers such as pancreatic cancer. And it's still a very, I think, early days to start making claims about this. But there appears to be something there, whether it is a microbial byproduct that is influencing the tumor environment.

30:24Because microbes in the gut, they produce a lot of chemicals that will spread into the systemic circulation. And so how those affect distant sides, it may not be directly the bacteria translocating itself. It might not be that the bacteria themselves are traveling through my blood to somewhere else. It might be they're creating chemicals in my gut. Those chemicals are going elsewhere. And that might then be triggers for some of the diseases that you might be studying. Exactly. Yeah. Yes. Chemicals or it could be their cell walls, which might be dead. The proteins in them can travel out and act as a sort of immune stimulant.

31:02That's the other thing. Because people are actually looking at this in the brain, where we thought previously there was no way the gut and the brain could connect. But this might, you know, just as we're seeing it leaking out of the gut, these mechanisms going to different organs, you know, nothing's off limits now. I think everyone needs to look everywhere and see where these microbial signals are going. Could we step back for a minute and just help to understand a bit more this sort of broader role between bacteria and the immune system? Because you've sort of been focusing in on this particular apart with belly fat, but then saying actually that that's just part of your immune system.

31:41What do we know about how the immune system is influenced by the gut microbiome? Hugely. Most of our immune system is around our gut, our intestines. So 70 to 80 % of all the immune cells in our body are actually in the lower intestine where all our microbes are, and that's not chance. So they're interacting all the time along this gut barrier. And it's a two-way communication. So they're always talking to each other via chemicals. And this means that the immune system is sensing what the microbes are telling them all the time, which is a sort of gauge to the outside world. So what you're eating and the general health of the host is coming in all the time, these signals, which means that the immune system can then respond properly and see off threats of infection.

32:33So what do we currently know about the relationship between the immune system and the bacteria in our gut? We know they're intimately connected, and one is crucial for the other one functioning. We can't have a proper immune system without gut microbes and vice versa. We need both to survive, and they need to be seen as part of the same system, over 70 % of all the immune cells in our body are concentrated in the lower intestine where all our gut microbes are. And they're constantly talking to each other, usually through chemicals that are produced from the microbes and then chemicals that are produced from the immune cells that are lining the gut.

33:15And this means that we have an immune system that is protecting us, is making sure we don't overreact to allergy, foreign, you know, we don't think every time we eat food that it's an invader, so we don't overreact. It stops us getting autoimmune disease, and yet when there's an infection, we can really deal with it. And so the immune system is also important for surveillance to help us fight accelerated aging, clear up damage from cells, fight cancer does everything and probably also is is really important even for mental health as well because it controls inflammation and the idea that you know everything needs to be nice and calm for us to function efficiently and if things are out of sync if the immune system has been getting messages from the microbes that things aren't quite right it just ramps everything up a notch like the thermostat going up.

34:17So it's constantly looking for a fight. And that's really why there's such a close connection between them. So we never really realized this until just a few years ago about how important it is then that having a really healthy gut microbes means that your immune system is then functioning optimally and then can help us. And in a way, why it fails and you get these autoimmune diseases like Crohn's or ulcerative colitis or allergies or whatever is part of this process that something breaks down in this connection. So really important for all of us to have a really well-functioning immune system, which means that everything is efficient and we deal with problems, but then everything goes down to a nice quiet level.

35:06whereas unfortunately at the moment most of us have a slight increased you know we're at a defcon level that's not the right one we you know we think there's some emergency going on our bodies and this is the sort of western diet western way of life everything's a bit too stressed the education of our immune system by a microbe starts from the moment we're born Looking at the early life, you know, microbiome, the first year of life tells you a lot about the interactions with the immune system and the gut microbiome. There's a lot of research now on this really critical window where a baby is born essentially sterile, no microbes, until they get, you know, the first bugs from their mother.

35:57And immune cells, as more bacteria start to colonize the gut, so do more immune cells start to develop in the intestines as well. And what's really interesting is there's this weaning period. Weaning meaning when you go from breast or formula onto your native diet or table foods or adult diet. And that introduction of food, you have this rapid expansion of immune cells in the infant. And a lot of that is attributed to the more diverse foods you eat, the more diverse microbes that colonize the gut. And so there's this beautiful evolutionary conserved interplay between microbes colonizing immune cells growing, which you want.

36:38That's a good thing. You want diverse immune cells so that when you grow up and see different foods, as Tim said, and different life exposures, you don't react and auto-react. And so there's a lot of studies saying, okay, what happens when we mess that up and we give babies a lot of antibiotics early in life or something like that? And studies show that their immune system doesn't develop as well as their microbes don't also. And the hypothesis being, could that be predisposing infants, children to autoimmune conditions, airway allergies, food allergies, and so on? so i i think you know we study a lot what happens in adults the defects that happen in adults but a lot of it starts very early in life that's probably why we've got so many allergies now that we didn't have 40 50 years ago because breastfeeding rates have gone down and diversity of baby foods has gone right down they're now getting ultra processed foods very early on in life and you combine that with cesarean sections plus antibiotics.

37:44It's a recipe for all these allergies we're getting, isn't it? Because as you said, a badly trained immune system that our ancestors didn't have. They had the perfect system to train it. I'm always conscious that we listen to this, having two children of my own, that it's really hard to go through pregnancy, have a baby get through this, and that often these podcasts always feel like, and here there's yet more ways in which as a parent and often, particularly as a mother, you feel like you're failing. So I always want to feel like, I think this can feel hard and lots of people are trying really hard to do their best.

38:20One of the things that I'm really struck by is how much on this podcast in the last year we've been talking about ultra-processed food and much more so than when we first started, sort of Zoe, eight years ago. And thinking about my own experience with my youngest one, the extent to which we're all sort of pushed towards these sort of pre-packaged foods that say they're super healthy and, you know, have all these organic ingredients. But basically, you're giving them mush out of a packet. And there's only about four types of mush. And I think, Suzanne, you're telling me, you really want to be giving your children, like a lot of different foods, because that's what's needed to give them a lot of different bacteria.

38:58And you want to do that, because that's what's needed, I've never heard this before, that's what's needed to get a lot of different immune cells, which set you up well for life. Yeah. There are certain things you can, you know, you have to slowly introduce diversity in, but there's a window where you make choices about what you can expose a baby to and training a diverse palette, right? And spices and flavors and train diversity in food preferences early actually will encourage a more diverse diet going forward and then a diverse microbiome as a result. And so, yeah, trying to create as much diversity for a baby as possible.

39:39But I think you made a point that I really agree with, and I always want to make sure parents don't always feel like they're doing something wrong. All of this research actually says the opposite. It's like, take it easy. If something falls on, let your kid play in the dirt. Let your kid lick stuff. Let your kid do stuff that would make you go crazy, because that actually is giving them the exposures that they probably need to educate their immune system. It's really fascinating. I think this link between the food we're eating, the fact that we know that the food we're eating is not as good as we had in the past, the impact on our gut bacteria.

40:15A lot of listeners to this show are ZOE members. They'll have had their gut microbiome tested as part of this. And many of them will have it also retested after going through the membership of this app and sort of guides you to what to eat. And what's striking is, you know, how many people living in the West have very poor microbiomes. So like the variety of the microbes they have, the number of the ones that are correlated with better health is like strikingly low. And then you're describing this link here between sort of the immune system and what happens else. And so we've definitely got ourselves into a difficult place, haven't we, that we now need to sort of wind out of.

40:57Before I switch to therefore like what are the things you could do, I just wanted to just to finish on visceral fat. We've talked a lot about this study with Sudan. Tim, is there anything else we know about relationship between gut bacteria and visceral fat? We've been studying this for over a decade now. We started with the twins. And we know that the amount of visceral fat you put on does have a genetic basis. So the fact that you have a tendency to put it on even when you're not overweight generally. It's all my parents' fault, is it? It's not all your parents' fault. It's half your parents' fault.

41:29Half my parents' fault, all right. Okay, it's half your fault. Yes, there's a genetic basis, but we also found that lots of microbe associations were associated with visceral fat as well. So of all the associations we found in the twins, and we looked at hundreds of different what we call phenotypes, sort of everything ranging from depression to food allergies, visceral fat came out as the strongest link to gut microbes. So every study done has shown this. And it's stronger than your overall obesity level or adiposity, as we call it. So there's something very specific about visceral fat that is linked to the gut microbes.

42:08Over the last 10 years, we thought we had the answer. We knew exactly what the microbes were. And we put some of those microbes in mice and replicated those results. But it turns out that as the microbiome sequencing gets better, we're finding more and more different species involved in this. So there isn't just one culprit. There's a whole series of them that seem to be associated with this deposit of visceral fat that we don't really understand yet. And so I used to be quite certain, oh, yes, we can get a magic bullet based on these microbes that could cure everybody. 10 years ago, we found some microbes that prevented visceral fat in mice.

42:54And so several companies started up trying to put this in your cereal. And then, you know, every morning, unfortunately, they've gone bust because it wasn't as simple as that, as usually is the case. But I think there's a suite of them. There might be 100 of these microbes that are working together, but it's possibly what the chemicals they're producing that might be the key factor. we simply don't know, but we do know they're heavily involved in this whole process. And it's fascinating to work out why that might be. But if they are associated, it does mean we can do something about it because it means we can manipulate those microbes.

43:34And Tim, I think you have a big new paper that's coming soon looking at the latest data of associations between bacteria and the source of health outcomes. Can you tell us a little bit about that and sort of sneak peek? Yes, well, now the ZOE database of all the members who've given their microbiome is over hundreds of thousands of individuals, and many of these we've linked to their diet and these other factors. And so we've put a lot of this together to work out new ways of scoring what is good and bad bugs. Because up to now, we've just used this, what's called diversity, which is the number of different microbes, which I think Susanna always agrees is a rather crude tool that doesn't really sort of help in a number of situations because you get good and bad ones lumped together.

44:24And what we've found is by getting all these outcomes, including things like visceral fat and body mass index and heart problems and blood cholesterol and blood pressure, everything bad about you, link that to foods that are associated with that and link to microbes that are also associated. We've come up with this cool way of finding what are the good and bad microbes that predict these outcomes. So this is a paper that's coming, but that first paper is mainly to give us a new way of looking at gut health through these really big massive samples that finally are going to tell us tell people how they can you know assess their own gut health compared to others in a way that doesn't get messed up like it used to in the in the past by you can have lots of inflammatory microbes and you have a good diversity but that doesn't mean you're healthy right um so this this sorts that out but and in that we've we've found some associations between microbes and fat again but again it's it's not like one microbe we need to deal with.

45:29It's dealing with the whole system holistically that I think is really important. It feels like the longer we've gone on, the larger the number of bugs that we're identifying that are both associated with health and poor health, and therefore the way that we're scoring this as you go through and do this test is taking into account more and more of these bacteria. So it's not as simple as there's this one bad bug and there's these two good bugs. There's a lot of complexity here. It's looking a bit like the genetics. People have been following the genetics revolution 20 years ago, we thought, oh, it's just one gene per disease.

46:02You know, we just thought in Crohn's or ulcerative colitis, you just got one gene and then you measure everyone. Again, human biology is much more complex. And so we also know that unlike genetics, all of us are much more unique in our gut microbes. So we need very big databases to work out what the, you know, how you would commonly assess, say, even the three of us to say who's healthier in terms of gut microbes because we've got to have the same group that are common between us in order to compare them. No point you and I comparing if we only share on average 20 % of them. So yeah, it's really complicated, but the good news is we're making progress really fast because now, thanks to all the Zoe members, we're getting this vast database that is doing things that no one else can.

46:51It's really valuable information. And I think the The inter-individual differences in the microbiome are sort of the big wrench in all of our studies. Any person you encounter, you'll have a different microbiome, and that makes it difficult to—that's why one size doesn't fit all for anything, really. But you're your best comparison, ultimately. So being able, if you have the opportunity to sample yourself over time, you can see what's changing within yourself. We often use this word dysbiosis in the microbiome field, which means essentially a weird microbiome that's not normal. But what is that for every – there's no normal for everyone and there's no abnormal for everyone.

47:35And so I always press, you know, define dysbiosis compared to what? Is it to your own starting point is really the best way to define it. And then you can start to understand, just like you see many individuals with diabetes who walk around with a blood glucose of 200 and they're not passing out. They're just fine. Their set point is a little bit different than everyone else's. The same is true for your microbiome. And so you really sort of just pay attention to yourself, pay attention to what works, what doesn't, what foods work and what don't. Your microbiome is yours. And maybe you can compare to individuals within your household.

48:10You're more likely to share microbes with them versus others. but I think frequent sampling within an individual is very valuable. I love to hear you say that because I do that a lot. It's one of the benefits. I've been the co-founder here, so I've been taking my microbiome frequently, and there's a podcast that I recorded with Tim and with Will Bolsovich talking about sort of what to do when taking antibiotics because having sampled this regularly, I had to take some pretty heavy-duty antibiotics at the beginning of last year, and it basically smashed my microbiome and took a very long time to start to come back.

48:43And I think only with that comparison do I also sort of know I've still got further to go, which I find quite motivating. Now, all of that said, I'm going to be in a lot of trouble if I don't switch to actionable advice. So I think people are listening to this. They're saying, wow, there's this link between the microbiome, my belly fat. That's important. I want to do something about it. I'd love to talk about what we can eat that might be able to make a difference. And we had Tim talk about this a lot. So actually, Suzanne, I'd love to start with you. And I think also you've done a review around this recently.

49:12And from our work, you know, in studying translocation, it really starts in the gut, you know, and healing the gut and maintaining a healthy gut barrier. And so foods that help support the integrity of the gut is really where it's at. And so then how do you do that? But in my view, it is having, you need a lot of functional redundancy. What that means is you need a lot of diversity, which is a crude measure, but many different kinds of bacteria, their presence means that you have a lot of functions that can be carried out. And if you do something inadvertently to your microbiome and one drops out, you have others there to carry out those functions.

49:56And so how do you create diversity? We kind of touched on it earlier, but that is really a diversity of your diet. There's been some interesting research from the Microseta Initiative where they looked at microbiomes around the world and really looked at metrics of diversity and associations with disease. And what they found is the diversity of plants in your diet relate to the more diverse microbiome. And they found that individuals who consume 40 or more different plant sources within their diet in a given week had a more diverse, robust microbiome. And plant sources come in all forms. And so what does that do to?

50:37Well, it's probably the fiber content of the diet. And fiber is really the key. It's not sexy. It sounds boring, but it is critically important. important. And there's a lot of deep research on what fiber does to certain microbes, what those microbes do with the fiber. And they relate to everything from educating the immune system, which we talked about earlier, to maintaining an anaerobic environment, a low oxygen environment in the gut, which is key for maintaining a gut barrier. So it's all cyclical, but it really starts with the diet. And feeding your good microbes through fiber, in my opinion, is you can't get around that.

51:18Would you add, Tim? Two things. I think fermented food has been shown, thanks to a study from Stanford, to have anti-inflammatory effects, which means we get this boost of extra microbes that are in food and the probiotics in food. If you have them regularly, and we're talking at least probably three times a day, you're getting a sample of it, can dampen down inflammation, keep your immune system in much better shape, less likely to cause these problems, which that visceral fat we think thrives off. So I think the idea is to keep that inflammation down. And the other thing in addition to what Suzanne said is avoiding ultra-processed foods as much as possible.

52:02It's probably impossible to cut them out completely, but get it down to less than 10 % of your diet so that you're getting mainly whole foods because we know that there's a pro-inflammatory reaction when you're having a lot of these foods and it causes problems for your gut microbes as well as depriving them of fiber and normal nutrients. So that's what everybody should be aiming at is to shift more towards real food, you know, less fake foods in their diet plus getting more different fermented foods in their dot. And just to add to that, I'm a big fan of fermented foods. Thank you for adding that in.

52:39The additional benefit to the fermented foods that we don't talk as much about is not just microbes in them, but all the chemicals that the microbes are producing. Fermented foods are like a living food. And so you're getting not just live bacteria, but you're getting this sort of soup of all these beneficial products the microbes are making. And then when you consume it, you get the benefit of those chemicals as well. So there's multiple benefits. Immune soup. Immune soup, yeah. I love that. I absolutely love that. For anyone listening to this, do you have any easy fermented recipes that they could get started with having sold on the benefit of the immune soup?

53:27They don't get any easier than some of these. So everyone should be able to make sauerkraut is the one I go for, which is you take a cabbage, you slice it up, you weigh it, you mix it with 2 % salt and stuff it in a jar and wait for a week. I mean, what's easier than that? Anything easier than that might be to get some milk kefir or kefir and you buy a good one from a store when you run when you're running out you you keep the last inch of it and you add that to a bottle of fresh milk and then you keep that out on the counter for over 24 hours until it until it changes and you you know and go solid and then you've got some more kefir to last you so you've literally just taken the previous kefir and made a new kefir without having to the expense of going to the store yeah so that's called back slopping i did not know that which is a bit of a Yeah, the name needs a bit of working on, but that's the technical term.

54:29So they're my two tips. Have you any other favorite ferments? If I'm honest, I buy mine. But you mentioned the Stanford study that looked at the benefits of fermented foods. And when they looked at different fermented foods on a scale of the ones that had the most benefit, it was fermented dairy and vegetable brine, which you can actually buy for those of you who don't have the ability to make your own. You can buy vegetable brine at the store as well. It's a certain acquired taste, but you can get these things. And it may vary depending on where in the world you live. But the dairy and the fermented vegetables seem to have the greatest benefit.

55:10And so kefir is great and certain Greek yogurts and kimchi, sauerkraut, all of those are really fantastic. But be wary of pickles. Not all pickles are fermented. And so you want to kind of pay attention to, usually they'll be labeled a little bit differently if they are truly fermented. I've heard people say that it doesn't guarantee it, but the fact that it's in the fridge or something, it's definitely a suggestion that there's something alive, but people cheat now. And so they put the dead thing in the fridge to make you think about it. So you still have to read the label. Right, exactly. Got to watch out for big food.

55:43Suzanne, before we run out of time, we talked about antibiotics a little bit across the conversation and the way that it can destroy a lot of the good bacteria in our gut. You know, as we think about actionable advice, and I know this comes up a lot through your work, what's your advice for repopulating? I used to be in the camp that actively recommended probiotics, especially after a course of antibiotics. I don't recommend that anymore, mainly because most people haven't tested their microbiome and know what they might be missing. If you have tested it and you have an obvious depletion of a certain beneficial microbe, then a probiotic could be helpful.

56:20But in the absence of that, I advise people, again, it isn't going to sound like a broken record, but eating a diversity of foods. Your microbes will repopulate. They will come back. Largely similar to where you were, there's been studies showing that if you take antibiotics, you might go to a new normal. It may not necessarily be bad, but it might be different than where you started. But really, the key is repopulating. And bugs, their function is carried out by what you give them, essentially. And so if you eat a lot of diverse foods, you will support many diverse bacteria in your gut. And generally, if you are eating, you know, diverse could be spam and a lot of processed, you know, candy and things like that.

57:07I don't necessarily mean diversity in that sense. but diverse common sense. You know, we know what a healthy diet looks like and really expanding within that concept is a diverse diet. And so after, of course, antibiotics, I would try to bring back, really focus on, you know, your salads and your, you know, different proteins and different carb grains and things like that in your diet, maybe more so than you would normally in that window of repopulation. And that's because you have a concern that potentially the probiotics, not just that they're neutral, they might actually potentially be harmful in the process you're describing?

57:42There has been some studies suggesting that taking a probiotic after antibiotics can actually delay normal recolonization of your gut. And there's the very specific disease conditions where a probiotic can actually be not good for your immune system, but those are rare cases. But it's really just going off of some papers that have come out suggesting that it may delay the normal recolonization compared to just diet alone. Thank you, everybody. I would like to do a quick summing up, and I hope you'll keep me honest. So we started with this amazing thing that bacteria can actually leave your gut and end up sort of floating around in the rest of your body, which has this wonderful term, bacteria translocation.

58:25And my takeaway is you don't want any bacteria translocation. It's not good. Normally, this does happen apparently all the time, but our immune system is zapping it. But if stuff is going wrong, either you have one of these autoimmune diseases or just your sort of inflammation is really high, any of these things, it can be worse. And then amazingly, like your fat can sort of jump in and sort of try and sit around it, act as a band-aid, which sounds good. But on the other hand, you end up with these bacteria that eat your fat and it's clearly not where you want to be. And so just like another explanation for how important it is to have this sort of healthy microbiome, healthy gut barrier because of eating the right food and keeping that inflammation low.

59:09We explained that this visceral fat is really important. So it's not just sort of an aesthetic question. It really impacts your health and is linked to lots of diseases. And that there's this very deep link, therefore, sort of between the visceral fat, your bacteria, and the food that you eat. And that we talk quite a bit about the way that that has actually been shaped from when you're a small child. And so I heard, which I'd never heard before, that if you train your children with a whole variety of foods, particularly when they're, you know, very young, they're actually going to get more variety of immune cells, and that's going to sort of set themselves up for life.

59:46So once again, I can blame my parents for everything that isn't right for me, because he didn't look after me properly when I was a small child. Tim was shaking his head. We heard some exciting news from Tim that there's a big new paper coming based upon now hundreds of thousands of ZOE members who've tested their gut microbiome with sort of further, better understanding of sort of a host of, you know, good bacteria that are linked to health. And Suzanne, you talked a lot about the way in which sort of knowing your own state of your microbiome is the best place to then know in the future whether it's healthy and why, interestingly, you no longer sort of tell people to take probiotics after antibiotics because they're not going to get the right things for them, but actually the fermented food and fiber and plants.

1:00:29And I would say finally, you know, what's interesting is how strongly both of you have talked about fermented food today, not just because it's got live bacteria in it, but also, and I never heard this before, the immune soup of beneficial nutrients. So that it's not just the bacteria, it's everything they've sort of created out of this food. And if you think it's too hard, Tim says that there is nothing easier than making sauerkraut at home. So don't be scared. Great. Yeah, you cracked it. Thank you both so much. Really enjoyed it very much. And Suzanne, as the studies continue, I hope we can get you back in the future.

1:01:07Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Now, if you listen to the show regularly, you already believe that changing how you eat can transform your health, but you can only do so much with general advice from a weekly podcast. If you want to feel much better now and be on the path to live many more healthy years, you need something more. And that's why more than 100 ,000 members trust Zoe each day to help them make the smartest food choices. Combining our world-leading science with your Zoe test results, Zoe is your daily companion to better health for life. So how does it work? Zoe Membership starts with at-home testing to understand your unique body.

1:01:47Then Zoe's app is your health coach, using weekly check-ins and daily guidance to help you shift your food choices to steadily improve your health. I rely on Zoe's advice every day, and truly it has transformed how I feel. Will you give Zoe a try? The first step is easy. Take our free quiz to find out what Zoe Membership could do for you. Simply go to zoe.com slash podcast, where as a podcast listener, you'll get 10 % off. As always, I'm your host, Jonathan Wolfe. Zoe Science and Nutrition is produced by Julie Pinero, Sam Durham, and Richard Willow. The Zoe Science and Nutrition podcast is not medical advice.

1:02:25And if you have any medical concerns, please consult your doctor. See you next time.

1:02:49As you can imagine, hosting this podcast, running Zoe, juggling family life, it all keeps me pretty busy. So I try as best I can to stay energized and show up well in all those parts of my life by fueling my body with the right food, by exercising, and by adding a scoop of Daily 30 to my meals every day. If you haven't heard of Daily 30 yet, it's the gut supplement designed by our gut health scientists here at Zoe. It's made of over 30 high quality hand-picked plants, including seaweed, fungi, and different types of fiber. Better yet, it contains ingredients that support gut health, digestion, and energy, which is ideal for packed calendars and busy lives.

1:03:33Simply add one scoop a day to any meal for an extra boost of fiber and plant diversity. And because it tastes delicious on just about anything and adds a satisfying crunch, it quite quickly slots into your life, becoming a daily healthy habit you'll always have time for. By the way, whenever we talk about Daily 30 as a good source of fiber, we're required to say that it contains four grams of total fat per serving. Obviously, that's all amazing healthy fats from plants. so order yours today at zoe.com daily 30 thanks for listening and see you next time