The 4 breathing secrets that will transform your health today | James Nestor

22:17It is not quaint. your body is struggling to breathe at night, and that is going to have a bunch of downstream issues.

22:25James Nestor:And so are you saying that if I'm snoring, that it's actually bad for my long-term health? That is a warning sign. Yes, I am absolutely saying that. It is stressing your body out at the time when your body needs to rest and recover. That's really interesting. I never really thought about it like that. I'd always just thought about it as something really annoying for your partner, which obviously it is, and not being able to sleep well because your partner is snoring. It's one of those things that drives you mad. But you're saying actually for myself as well, breathing is important. So if I am snoring, it's a sign that I'm struggling in some way.

22:59James Nestor:And you're also saying that because of the change in the sort of the food that we eat, that my muscles in my mouth and tongue are just much less developed because we used to eat all sorts of hard and chewy things you dug up from the ground, not ultra processed sort of baby food type stuff. And so basically I've just got all of this soft tissue and in the past it would have just been much stronger. This is, I mean, I made the joke about like the abs on my tongue, but you're saying it really would have, it really is a difference. Like I just sort of am flabby where I would have been sort of muscled in the past.

23:32That is a safe assumption to make. In addition, your mouth is likely going to be smaller than it should because almost everybody has this, right?

23:43James Nestor:I understand your explanation for all of this shift in terms of sort of how we live and how we eat, except about the mouth size. Do we know why our mouth is smaller than it was? We absolutely do. It goes down to chewing. So we had stray teeth all over. And if you don't believe me, look at ancient schools. I spent a lot of time looking at ancient schools. All of our ancestors had stray teeth. And these huge pallets, like these enormous mouths, with that large mouth, you're going to have a larger airway, larger sinus areas, right? So we can pinpoint the exact point at which people started getting small mouths.

24:21And it happened right when industrialized food came into the food supply. So England was one of the first countries to have industrialized food, England and France, right? And we can see in a single generation of adopting industrialized food, 50 % of the population will have crooked teeth. 50%. In the next generation, around 70%. In the next generation, around 80%. Robert Corchini spent 40 years researching this, 250 different scientific papers, I think three or four different books. Irrefutable. So we can actually see what happens. They've even done experiments with animals. serving pigs the exact same food.

25:03One group of pigs was fed the soft version of that food, the other hard version of that food, and it changes your mouth size.

25:10James Nestor:So you're saying that if I'm having to chew really hard, then actually my mouth, like the skull itself, gets bigger as a result of eating? When you are developing as a kid, once we're 17, 8, you can still improve a lot of things. They have expansion devices that can restore your mouth. You can do these myofunctional therapy, oral pharyngeal exercises, all of this stuff. But it is most essential from the time in which you are breastfed to be converted to real food so that you're chewing. because if you build a good foundation early on, then you carry that with you into adulthood. And if you think, I think about the stuff I was fed, I was bottle fed.

25:59You know, my mom had three kids. She's like, this was not something you were doing in the 70s. And I was bottle fed and then on to Gerber's soft food. This is not the way to do it.

26:11James Nestor:And so if I was eating hard food that I need to really chew to get the sustenance out of, then all of that like exercise, it's not just the muscles you were talking about before, but actually sort of the bone itself ends up being bigger. The shape of my jaw is bigger. I remember somebody telling me that the bread that people were eating in like the French revolution, like if we fit into it now, you'd like lose a tooth because it was so hard and chewy. Is this what you're saying? Like it's, it's like really hard. And then you move to this like perfectly milled modern bread. And so you just didn't need to chew it anymore.

26:47It doesn't need to be the perfect hard food because all populations everywhere eating different diets had straight teeth and had large mouths. So what we used to do is kids were breastfed for two to four, in some cultures, even six to eight years. And when you are breastfed as an infant, it pulls your face outward, okay? And it expands your palate. This is what it does. And I promised myself not to talk about this anymore. because whenever a man is telling mothers about breastfeeding, I've gotten a bunch of angry letters. What I'm telling you and all the listeners out here is I'm conveying information.

27:29Okay, I'm not making judgments on anybody. I know how hard it is to be a modern mother. I'm just telling you what I have learned from the experts in the field. They said when you are breastfed for that long, exclusively, it pulls the face out. And if you think about the pressure and the coordination required for breastfeeding, not only is it opening up that palate and making for a larger mouth, but it is training these infants to be obligate nasal breathers because they're breastfeeding for three, four hours a day, right? And the only way you can feed and breathe is through your nose. And then if you move from breast milk to hard foods, regular foods, so Gerber's and applesauce, and this is new stuff.

28:14Okay. All the carrots, carrot mush stuff, this is new stuff. Kids were moved from breastfeeding to hard foods. This expands the upper palate. It enables them to grow that proper skelicature. And with that, you have a larger airway. Not a theory. This is known stuff that's been researched over decades. It's fascinating.

28:39James Nestor:Can we talk now about this breathing through your nose versus your mouth? Because you've mentioned a number of times now sort of how it's much better to breathe through my nose. What's so special about my nose? So this is your first line of defense against allergens, against viruses, against bacteria. So this is your filter, right? So we have nasal hairs. Most people clip those out. And then we have all these different structures that this air is forced to go through. There are these different baffles that pressurizes this air as we inhale. You can take an inhale through your mouth. Then you can try to take that same inhale and that same amount of time through your nose.

29:24It takes a lot longer, right? There's a lot more pressure. We need that pressure and we need that filtering. So when that air comes into our lungs, it is cleansed of all the pollutants that are in the outside environment. And if you don't, you're much more susceptible to have respiratory infections. I was a mouth breather my whole life. You're in an environment with a lot of dust, with a lot of pollen. This is going to exacerbate that inflammation.

29:53James Nestor:I've never done that experiment before, just copying you breathing in through my mouth and my nose. and you're right, it takes me longer to breathe in through my nose than through my mouth. So if anyone listening hasn't tried it, try it right now. It's rather extraordinary. Could you explain to me a bit more what's going on inside my head then? I think in my simple idea, my nose is still connected to the back of my throat. So it sort of should happen at the same pace, why is it slower in my nose and how is that protecting my lungs in the way you're describing? If you were having a huge, huge bowl of food, right, is it better to eat all of that food in three minutes as most people do or to calmly eat that food over the course of that half an hour?

30:41You can digest it so much better, okay? The lungs are working in the same way. So all of these different structures in your nose that are built to slow this air down and to filter it, right? They are there for a reason. We evolved to have these. So when that air enters our lungs, it enters more slowly and it exits more slowly and it is pressurized. That allows the lungs to absorb so much more oxygen than just going. And that's the main key. There's so many other benefits, But if you're talking about just the foundational part of the efficiency, that's it. You can breathe fewer breaths, slower breaths, and get so much more oxygen than you could.

31:35Which is why it drives me crazy when people are at altitude. They don't know better, so I'm not blaming anyone. Or if they're exercising and they're jogging, it's sort of a medium pace and they're just thinking they're getting more oxygen. They're not. They're doing the opposite. That's why their fingers are tingling. They're always cold.

31:55James Nestor:And when I am just thinking about exercise now, I'm now thinking more about breathing than I have done in my previous 50 years, James. So, you know, I know it's a bit slow going around one by one telling people, but you're definitely making me think about this. when I'm pushing myself really hard, I feel like I would then shift to breathing through my mouth. Is that right? About 90 % of the exercise that people are doing can and should be done through the nose. There are some stages of deep zone four, zone five, when you are absolutely sprinting, you're doing CrossFit, you're in martial arts, whatever, elite trainers are now teaching athletes to use mouth breathing as a shift in the fifth gear, right?

32:45To consciously say, my body can benefit from a few mouth breaths as you dunk on someone's head, and then you go back to breathing through the nose. So there's a time and place for everything if it's conscious. What I'm talking about is the vast majority of our time, we're not in zone four, not zone five. We're not even exercising. We're sitting down. And if you're sitting down or you're standing, breathing through the nose is going to be so much more beneficial, not only from that efficiency side, but because you release about six times more nitric oxide breathing through the nose. This is this miraculous molecule that helps expand blood vessels, helps deliver more blood more easily around your body.

33:37It's what they use in erectile dysfunction drugs. The way those things work is nitric oxide. It's a vasodilator. So it dilates the blood vessels down south, but also dilates the blood vessels all over the place. And you can do this naturally, breathing through your nose.

33:55James Nestor:So if I breathe through my nose, I get a lot more nitric oxide in my blood? Yes, yes, you get. Just doing that, that vibration releases much more nitric oxide, which goes to your lungs and goes into your blood. This is one of the most essential molecules to the body, especially for oxygen delivery. And most of us are deficient in it, which is why there's all these crazy supplements and stuff out there now. The conditions we've mentioned in this episode, like asthma and snoring, are incredibly common. So you're likely to know someone who struggles to breathe. If so, make sure you send them this episode today.

34:36James Nestor:It might just help them to breathe more easily. Can I come back to another one of the Q &A questions we had at the beginning? Because I asked you about what I think is an experiment you did at Stanford where you blocked your nose with silicon for 10 days. Why did you do this? Did not want to do this. Tried to get a bunch of other people to do this. We wanted to get a study done with about 50 people, break them up into two groups, you know, 25 controls, 25 who were going to do it. The rhinologist, the chief rhinology of expert at Stanford, Jayakar Nayak, laughed at that. that A, it would cost a million dollars.

35:18The other thing he said was that it would be unethical for him to conduct that study, knowing all the damage this would cause someone just to be a mouth breather. So he allowed us to use his lab. We still have to pay for the experiment. For two people, that was the max amount allowed. And for 10 days, we put silicone in our noses and we're mouth breathers. A lot of people say, oh, this is like a supersize me stunt. But if you look at the amount of people chronically mouth breathing, especially people with chronic congestion, I did not view it that way. I viewed it as I'm putting myself into the place of such a huge percentage of the population that does not realize they're doing this and does not realize the damage they're doing to themselves.

36:03So it's 10 days of forced mouth breathing followed by 10 days of nasal breathing as often as we could. And we compared data sets from that and everything we thought was going to happen, happened. So there were no real surprises other than this was so much more miserable than I ever imagined it would be. So what happened? If you look at sleep, I think that was the biggest thing. I don't snore. I have never snored and I track my sleep pretty religiously. The very first night of forced mouth breathing, first night, didn't take, not first month, not first year, first night, my snoring increased to about an hour and a half.

36:47And about three days later, it was about four hours a night. And it stayed there and it kept getting worse through this 10-day period. The other person in the experiment had the exact same reaction. We even developed sleep apnea. Neither of us had sleep apnea, but we started choking on ourselves just by changing the pathway in which we were breathing air. So I had heard about this. It had been established that during allergy season, snoring goes through the roof because the nose gets congested. People start breathing through their mouths at night. But it was something completely different to experience it yourself and to feel so awful in the morning.

37:30and to watch our sleep scores just absolutely plummet across the board. The first few nights, it was funny. We were recording ourselves even with a video camera. We had all these gadgets. And then after a few days, it just wasn't funny anymore. It was really painful, and it just made me really, really sad that a journalist had to be the one doing this research. When we have so many researchers out there that could do this in a real way, I did everything I could with the budget I had and the resources available, but still there hasn't been a study. We want people to refute this or to confirm this.

38:10No one's done this study because the outcome is breathe through your nose more often. There's no product and no money to be made at the end of it. But there's enough research that had been done at Stanford for 50 years, Christian Guimeno, who did the godfather of sleep medicine, that all of this was established. And now it's just about getting the word out to people and letting them know if you're snoring, if you're breathing through your mouth, if you have sleep apnea, that's causing a bunch of serious issues.

38:41James Nestor:Before I move on, one thing that you mentioned that I think we haven't touched on is asthma. How does that fit into this story? The vast majority of people with asthma are over-breathing. A large amount of them are breathing through their mouths. They have habituated themselves to be in this vicious cycle of breathing like this all the time. And when they hold their breath, even for a few seconds, it sends alarm bells to their brains to make them breathe more. And so they breathe more. They get more nervous, they get more tense. What happens? An asthma attack. I was talking to Dr. Justin Feinstein, who has been studying this for a long time, and he looked at people who had panic disorders and asthma and found that the vast majority of them had an extremely low tolerance for carbon dioxide.

39:40So carbon dioxide is the end product of metabolism, and you're supposed to be able to tolerate a decent amount of it, hold your breath for 30 seconds and feel comfortable because you need carbon dioxide in your bloodstream. Otherwise, it causes vasoconstriction and it causes a bunch of other issues. But so many of these people are in this cycle of over-breathing and the thought of holding their breath reminds them that they're having a panic attack. So they're just, I know this is a bit technical, they're constantly over-breathing. When you train asthmatics to breathe more slowly through the nose, when they feel an asthma attack coming on, instead of trying to slow themselves down to hold their breath for a few seconds, it can be absolutely transformative.

40:34There are about 20 different studies looking into this. that have found these people within a number of weeks are able to decrease the amount of bronchodilator use by around 50%, decrease oral steroids. And so many of them, they write me all the time, don't have any symptoms at all after a few months. To be completely clear, I would never say people should stop using their medication. Okay, continue using your medication, but also it might be beneficial to seek out a qualified certified respiratory therapist that can assist you in these different techniques to breathe more slowly. I have never heard of any asthmatic or people with anxiety or panic who have not had real benefits from learning how to breathe better.

41:23Now, that spectrum is wide. Some people say, I do feel better. I'm using a little less medication. That's on one end.

41:31James Nestor:The other end is, I have no more symptoms, and I'm so pissed off someone didn't tell me this 20 years ago. I think there's a fascinating set of examples that you're pulling together here about our breathing. I'd love to talk about techniques that a listener could use to actually make a change, you know, ideally right now, so that if they were sitting opposite you right now, they'd be judged for their excellent breathing and not how they're getting it wrong. wrong and maybe could we start with someone who's new to all of this like where where should you start okay the first warning i'm going to give everyone is what i'm going to tell you is extremely boring it's going to seem extremely mundane a lot of people come up to me and they say you've studied this stuff for a while you've talked to hundreds of experts you've gone all over the world tell me the mystical knowledge behind proper breathing and i'm here to tell you it's nothing fancy.

42:30Just like nutrition in many ways, it just doesn't need to be that complicated. So the very first thing is you have to become an obligate nasal breather. This doesn't mean every single breath you take needs to be in and out of the nose. I'm breathing through my mouth a bit now as I'm talking. You're laughing, you're breathing through your mouth. Sometimes when you're really exerting a lot of energy, all of that is perfectly fine. But your habit, your default should be nasal breathing. It's hard for me to give advice on this because everyone is different and they suffer from slightly different things.

43:09So there are some people that have a structural problem in their noses and need to see a surgeon. There are some people who have problems with their nostrils. Here's a little trick. You may be one of them. You can take two fingers for those of you listening and not driving. Don't do this driving. You can take two fingers, your forefinger and your middle finger from both hands, place them right next to your nose, right next to your nostrils, and pull your nostrils apart. If that is significantly easier to breathe that way, is it for you? I think it's easier. Maybe not a little bit easier. Some people, their eyes just open up and they say, oh my God.

43:51Then there's a good chance you suffer from nasal valve collapse. huge percentage of the population, like 20 % of the population has this. So you can wear these little nasal strips. You can condition yourself to do that. You have to become somebody who your default is nasal breathing. This includes while you're walking. This includes while you're jogging, while you're doing most exercise. And it especially includes at night. And one of the ways you can do that at night, the ever controversial mouth tape is coming up here, everybody get ready, is I was told by a respiratory therapist at Stanford to use a teeny little piece of tape across my lips.

44:32This is not a big fat strip of duct tape. This is a teeny little piece of tape to help train yourself to close your mouth at night to become a nasal breather. It's extremely awkward for me the first couple of weeks. She told me this seven years ago. I remember two or three nights that I haven't worn that since because it made such an enormous difference to my sleep quality. If you don't believe me, you can track your sleep and see what it does for you if you are a mouth breather.

45:03James Nestor:So just to make sure I've understood that, I'm not putting tape across my whole mouth. I'm putting like a little bit from my top to the bottom just to sort of hold it together, but if I had to, I could still like breathe a bit through the sides. I haven't like blocked it completely, but it basically means I can't separate my upper and lower lip anymore. This is one technique. There are several techniques. There are several products. I don't endorse any of them. I'm not affiliated with any of these different companies. I have found what works for me personally after experimenting wildly for a few weeks was a little piece of surgical tape.

45:40You can buy it at your local drugstore. And just using it about the size of a postage stamp, placing it at the center of your lips. And at any time it pops off, comes off at any time. This is not something that you want to feel claustrophobic or frustrated about. It's just a reminder to keep your mouth shut. And you said this is controversial? It's controversial because I think around 40 % of people don't need it. So you hear a bunch of people saying everyone benefits from sleep tape. That's garbage because they've done studies and found around 55 % to 60 % of the population breeze through their mouths, but the other 40 % doesn't.

46:18So if you're one of those people who sleeps with your mouth shut, you do not need mouth tape. And some people get really reckless with this stuff. They wear a huge strip of tape. They go out and drink at night, right? They wear it no matter what, or they're extremely obese and suffer from extreme sleep apnea, thinking that this little piece of tape is going to fix all their problems. So just use common sense and go slow. The protocol, if you were to follow one, is surgical tape, mild adhesive, not something that leaves a sticky residue, place it at the center of your mouth, wear it for 10 minutes entering emails, doing dishes, watching TV.

46:58Comfortable, then wear it for 20 the next day. Still comfortable? Wear it for an hour the next day. Uncomfortable at any time? Stop wearing the tape. It's not right for you.

47:08James Nestor:So you talked about default nasal breathing. You now talked about how you were trying to breathe at night. Is there anything else that I need to be doing to breathe properly? There is. So the other one is to breathe more slowly. This is a little easier. So once you become an obligate nasal breather, it kind of forces you to breathe more slowly. but it's also helpful to develop a more proper habit. If you were to breathe through your nose and just try this with me, we're just going to breathe in to a count of around five, inhale, 2, 3, 4, 5, and exhale, 2, 3, 4, 5, a little softer, and inhale, 2, 3, 4, 5, and exhale, no movement in the shoulders, 2, 3, 4, 5, and inhale, flexing your stomach out, allowing that breath to fill in and exhale.

48:15And now as you exhale, the stomach's coming back in a bit. Now inhaling, allowing your gut to sort of freely come out and exhaling. Do you feel any different breathing that way?

48:33James Nestor:I feel incredibly calm really fast. I also feel that those are much slower breaths than I'm used to taking, maybe twice as long on each. But I really noticed a shift in just my mental, it's quite stressful trying to do a podcast, make sure I'm doing a good job. And interestingly, I immediately felt, oh, obviously it's more relaxing now. So if you were able to shift your nervous system to become more relaxed, clear your thoughts, get more oxygen. In 20 seconds, we did that. Imagine if you had 20 hours of breathing this way, or 20 days, or 20 weeks, or 20 years. What would happen to even your metabolism, to your ability to sleep better, to your ability to function better?

49:31I'm not saying you need to be breathing this slowly all the time. This is a training exercise. right so it's a bit extreme in how slow it is but after breathing this way if you do it for long enough just a few minutes a day your body slowly becomes habituated to become more comfortable breathing more slowly and more deeply so maybe if you were breathing at 15 breaths a minute after a few weeks or a few months you might be breathing at 10 breaths a minute that will make such an enormous difference throughout the day. The more conscious you become of it, the more you start doing it, the easier it is to become your unconscious default.

50:18So you don't want to go around thinking about breathing all day. Who wants to do that? But if you train yourself, just like if you train yourself to eat better, that will become the thing that you default to when you're not thinking about it. And that's the key behind all this stuff. What I would suggest people do If you're actually interested in doing this Set an alarm on your phone twice a day Maybe during your commute If you're driving Or if you're on the train or whatever And just for five minutes Do this breathing exercise There's an audio track I'm happy to give it away for everyone For free, no paywalls or any of that And you just have this on your phone You just do it for twice a day That's not a big ask For five minutes and they found that even that short amount of time can have downstream benefits to your stress levels to your ability to become more comfortable breathing more slowly that's really what it's all about by breathing more slowly what you're really doing is breathing normally because so many of us are over breathing my suggestion is just get down to normal you don't have to be a super breather just be normal.

51:30That's amazing. Where would I find this breathing exercise? I will send you the track. You can share it with everybody.

51:36James Nestor:Okay. We will find a way to have a link in the show notes so you can get this exercise. That sounds fantastic. Thank you, James. Let's say that I'm listening to this, realize I'm a mouth breather, realize that I'm breathing too fast and I work to try and fix. I start doing those five-minute exercises that you're describing, I start to think about this. How quickly might I start to feel the benefits of working on this? The good thing about these exercises is, as you just demonstrated, about 20 seconds, you can feel the benefits. It's not like going on some crazy diet and you feel the benefits two months later.

52:18So after a few seconds, you usually get a hint that, oh, this might be important. Oh, I can downregulate my nervous system by just taking a few breaths. As far as developing a new habit where you're doing it unconsciously, it totally depends who you are, where you are on that spectrum of breathing health, right? If you're somebody with extreme COPD, who has asthma, who's been breathing dysfunctionally your whole life, it's going to take you a lot longer to get to that point. So it's difficult for me to answer that. For me, I thought I was a good breather. I was much more dysfunctional than I anticipated.

52:57So it was after a couple of months. But the breathing exercise, it's great. It is optional. The number one thing is that nasal breathing because your body, you do that, you're about 70 % there because you're breathing more slowly, right? It forces you to breathe

53:14James Nestor:more slowly. James, that's been fascinating. I'd like to do a quick summary and correct me if I get anything wrong. So the number one thing I'm taking away is I'm breathing wrong. Everyone else I know is breathing wrong. And part of that, it's a little bit like the story with our food, that we're now living in an environment which is very different from the environment we all grew up in. And so part of that is that I'm sitting in a chair all the time and I'm sort of hunched over. And therefore, as I breathe, I'm actually sort of just breathing with the top part of my body with my mouth and then only into the top of my chest.

53:52James Nestor:And so I'm not really getting it down to the bottom of my torso. And so then I'm having to breathe a lot more. And this is telling my brain I'm stressed out and this is all bad. But it's not only that interesting, also saying that the sort of food we eat, particularly as like a young child, where we just don't really need to chew our food, which has come up on other podcasts. A lot of that is also this very processed food means that actually our mouths are not developing in the same way. And you're saying you can see that in the teeth of skeletons from the path that we literally have like a smaller jaw, crumpled teeth.

54:27James Nestor:So that is also affecting the way that we breathe. Related to this is the way that so many of us are snoring. And snoring isn't just annoying for your partner, but actually it's a sign that you're struggling at night. But the biggest thing you're talking about is that we're all breathing through our mouth and we should be breathing through our nose. And that has a number of reasons, partly to do with maybe the sort of the protective elements of how it filters things out, but also just has this natural sort of break on the pace at which I can breathe. So by breathing through my nose, I'm just going to slow it down.

55:03James Nestor:And we did this amazing experience for me where, you know, in 20 seconds, I just felt calmer just from shifting to the nose and the slower breathing. And most people who know me know that I'm clearly a mouth breather all the time because I'm the least calm person you'll meet. This isn't just though about things like not snoring or feeling a bit calmer. You're talking about evidence that links this to, you know, really serious conditions like asthma. You have your own example about how this has impacted this big reduction in infections that you're getting in your chest. And so for you, as you think about like the actionable advice, the biggest thing is how can you move to a point where you are default breathing through your nose?

55:45James Nestor:And even if you're jogging, amazingly, you should be breathing through your nose, especially at night. You believe that using mouth tape to adjust to nasal breathing can work. And you've seen lots of people. You made very clear that this is not a big piece of duct tape over my mouth. You're saying like a little bit of surgical tape, like postage stamp size across the top and bottom lip, and actually just slowly train yourself during the day, which is a way also to move towards the nose. And then you can try it at night. And then finally, just breathing more slowly in general with this better posture is going to put me in a much better place.

56:25James Nestor:And I can train myself, although it should become automatic, if I can sort of set an alarm for five minutes a day, do this breathing exercise, and we will make sure we have that and put a link on the show notes, you can not only practice that in those five minutes, but it will start to affect my unconscious pattern the rest of the time. All true. Everything you've said there, except for the fact that not everybody is breathing through the mouth. So a lot of us are habituated to be mouth breathers. But the rest of that, that was the best non-AI live human summary I've heard a long time. So congratulations.

57:07James Nestor:As you can imagine, hosting this podcast, running Zoe, juggling family life, it all keeps me pretty busy. So I try as best I can to stay energized and show up well in all those parts my life, by fueling my body with the right food, by exercising, and by adding a scoop of Daily 30 to my meals every day. If you haven't heard of Daily 30 yet, it's the gut supplement designed by our gut health scientists here at Zoe. It's made of over 30 high-quality, hand-picked plants, including seaweed, fungi, and different types of fiber. Better yet, it contains ingredients that support gut health, digestion, and energy, which is ideal for packed calendars and busy lives.

57:50James Nestor:Simply add one scoop a day to any meal for an extra boost of fiber and plant diversity. And because it tastes delicious on just about anything and adds a satisfying crunch, it quite quickly slots into your life, becoming a daily healthy habit you'll always have time for. By the way, whenever we talk about Daily 30 as a good source of fiber, we're required to say that it contains four grams of total fat per serving. Obviously, that's all amazing healthy fats from plants. So, order yours today at zoe.com slash daily30. Thanks for listening and see you next time.