The best exercise routine, according to your muscle clocks with Professor Karyn Esser

27:35It seems to be something locally at the level of the muscle. And so that's one example where we have some evidence that likely the clock is playing a role and sort of, you know, under regular conditions, you are stronger. You're going to be stronger in the afternoon. Now, why? I don't, you know, we don't have a why for that, but that's how it works. The other one that some of my colleagues from the Netherlands have shown is that the mitochondria in the muscle cells, so the powerhouses, the things that make all the energy, they have a higher capacity in the afternoon. Just to make sure I've got this, this is your body clot through 24 hours changing the way that your muscles work.

28:25And interestingly, you're saying like across men and women, and it sounds like you said a lot of different studies, you can actually see that this strength is peaking surprisingly late in the day. You're saying sort of four to five in the afternoon, which I rather think is like sort of the day is sort of... Yeah, I don't want to be too precise here because, you know, but I'd say afternoon. So I'd say, let's just say from two on. Okay. Depends when you wake up, I guess, is what you're saying. Is that when my afternoon and your afternoon might be different? But that's really fascinating. Is that also constant as we age?

29:01We don't know. If I had to make a prediction, I would say we'd lose our day-night difference based on what I understand with the timer. But that actually hasn't been tested. with, I mean, it's been looked at maybe up to about 30 years old. But again, I don't think we've actually moved those studies into sort of the over 50 crowd. So in general, do we see circadian rhythms like become weaker as we age? What is it that makes you think that that's what's likely to be happening? We talked about the clock mechanism, which is the same in every single cell, right? So you have this timer where my research has been and where people don't really talk about it in terms of trying to apply it to the physiology is that beyond timekeeping, it has another job.

29:50All right. So it actually has a second job that from a physiological perspective is critically important. And that is to regulate a set of genes at different times of day. Can you help us to understand that? Because I think most people listening to this will be like, hang on, my genes are just this fixed thing, what does that mean to regulate a set of genes at a different time of day? Could you just help us to understand what you just said? So you have this timer that has sort of like gears on it, right? And those gears touch different parts, different sets of genes at different times of day. There are some genes that are constant, but there are a number of genes.

30:31So let's say over a thousand genes in a muscle cell are expressed in a pattern where they're higher at some times and lower at others. And does this mean like, because genes are sort of a bit like instructions, aren't they, to do something? So is this sort of saying you're basically this muscle cell is being told, hey, at four in the afternoon, do all the things that are going to set you up to be the strongest you possibly can. But at three in the morning, you should be working, switch on all the repair, switch off all of the special turbocharging stuff, switch on different functions that you want to be happening in this cell at different time of day?

31:09Absolutely. So one way to think about the clock or the way we, you know, is that it is a anticipatory timer. So it's based on, you know, the fact that we have these changes in what we do at different times of day. And so what you will see is before you wake up in your muscle, you will see sets of genes that are getting turned on and those will make for proteins. And those things are going to be involved in metabolism or breakdown of like fats and carbohydrates that will provide the energy for you to use your muscle. Your muscle is basically getting ready to be used. you know, you're still lying in bed, but it knows that you're going to be waking up in an hour, and it's going to start doing these things so that it's ready because you're gonna have to get up and you have to get the kids ready for school, and you're going to walk them to school or whatever it is, you start doing a bunch of stuff.

32:05And it doesn't just get turned on instantly. It's not like we're a bit used to our phones can do anything instantly. But actually, this is more like these machines need to be warmed up and ready and with all the right things. And so this is doing that in over quite a long period, right? You're not talking about just minutes here. Correct. Your idea of the warm-up is perfect, right? So what the clock is doing is it is changing things without you having to think about it. It's changing things in your muscle that get your muscle ready for once you get out of bed and do all those things you're going to do, right?

32:37And then at a different time of the day, it's going to be doing something different, and that will be related to storage of sugar, storage of replacement of proteins that may be damaged. So it knows you're going to be resting or, you know, it assumes you're going to be resting. And so it's getting those specific genes expressed to do the jobs it wants to be doing during that rest phase. So Karen, I'd love to like take that like very sort of cutting edge research that you're doing about, you know, literally what's going on inside our muscle cells and then step back and say, well, somebody's listening to this.

33:18What might it imply for how they think about their life and how they might think about doing exercise. There'll be a lot of people listening to this show who have become convinced, a bit like me, that they need to do more exercise, even if they don't necessarily really love it very much. But they're like, you know, it's a bit like brushing your teeth. You need to do this. So, I mean, why don't we start with me? I'm in my late forties. What does this tell you about both what is like good in terms of how I would think about the timing of my exercise or being physically active, but also, I guess, what would be suboptimal?

33:52With what we understand about the natural rhythms of the clocks in our muscles, then, you know, if you are able to, I mean, exercising in the afternoon is probably when your body and when your muscles are best set for doing that, right? You're stronger, you know, based on the mitochondrial measures, you know, the endurance should be good. It's a very nuanced question. And so I'm trying, I'm struggling with trying to find the way. One of the things, one of the things I love about this show always is whenever you speak to the people who are like the absolute world experts in something, they're always much more cautious about the advice than when you talk to somebody who's like a long way away from it, hasn't maybe done the research themselves.

34:35It's where they tend to make very strong statements. So I think we are used to the fact that, you know, that this is cutting edge science, that the results, may in fact be reinterpreted. And so I understand the caution. If I play it back, what I think you're saying is that right now the evidence is that there is a change during the day, that you are stronger starting from the afternoon, and that implies that that's a better time to exercise. And I think you're also saying that you haven't carried out all the randomized control trials to sort of prove this yet. Would that be a... That would be correct.

35:10And then the other part that we haven't talked about is what time you exercise actually feeds into the muscle clock. So talk about help, help me to understand what you're saying. So, so just like light adjusts the clock in the brain. Right. What time you exercise adjusts your muscle clocks. People often talk about the fact that if you do have jet lag, then sort of doing exercise in the place that you go to can be helpful. and I just assumed that that was something to do with like, you know, just being more active or something. But you're saying that actually that might contribute to adjusting in the same way that the light is supposed to help you adjust?

35:50Absolutely. And feeding. And again, I love that you say that. Like, if you're on audio, you won't see Karen looking at me as though I'm a complete idiot because it's obvious that this is going to change the time zone. But I'm quite surprised. So to explain a little bit what happens, you're saying? You can perform exercise at different times of day. And depending on when you exercise, it will change the settings or the phase of the muscle clock independent. So the clock in the brain does not change, but the muscle clocks will shift sort of directionally toward, I call it sort of toward the time of the exercise.

36:33What we now understand is that there is information that's coming from that exercise at that particular time that's telling the muscle clock, hey, this might be something we're gonna be doing more often. Let's adjust so we're gonna be ready for this, right? So if we think about the clock being an anticipatory mechanism, if all of a sudden you start exercising at six in the morning, the clocks in your muscles are gonna shift more there. It's learning, it's in training, it's adapting to that time so you are going to be better prepared or your muscles are going to be better prepared to perform that activity at that time.

37:11And Karen, does that affect your body clocks elsewhere as well? So if I'm doing this exercise, does that start to drag all my other body clocks also in that direction? Well, it can. It's not a simple answer. It's not like all the other peripheral tissues come along. No. But we have evidence that the clocks in your fat will change. The clocks in your lungs will change. So it's definitely not just the muscles. There is this. Correct. Hence you saying like, it's obvious that if you were jet lagged, you should do exercise. It's going to help you to move. Absolutely. Absolutely. It makes me something because we talk about jet lag as traveling to somewhere else, but there will be a lot of people listening to this who do shift work.

37:57So there might be nurses or doctors or whatever it is who have to go through effectively this massive jet lag for themselves where there is no light. In fact, they're fighting against the light. What does this imply about anything to do with exercise being able to be helpful to manage that, moving on to shift and moving off? Yeah, again, it's an area. It's a great question. There's very little data in that area. But I think, I mean, you know, this would be one of those things where I'd talk to the people who do exercise on shift and they could help the scientists design the experiment in some ways.

38:39Because a lot of times people figure out what makes them feel best and, you know, when the exercise makes them feel best. You know, there's data out with sleep deprivation and exercise and the benefits that come with that. Aspects of sleep deprivation are circadian in nature. And so the prediction is that it will be beneficial. And again, it will vary depending on whether you're a swing shift type person or if you're a very consistent shift type person. I think hopefully there are people in that area now figuring these things out. And based upon what you know now, so someone's listening and saying, like, that's great.

39:17You're going to have better answers in five years time. But Karen, are you saying you should be trying to do some exercise, therefore, in the shift? Because that's going to help to make the let's say you're doing this for some long period of time. Right. So it's not just for a day or two, but it's a week. Are you saying that, you know, you don't want to sit in your, you know, somehow like the activity levels would help? What do you. I mean, you know, based on what we understand right now, I would suggest exercising before you start your work, before you start your shift rather than at the end of the shift.

39:46But that's, you know, again, my caution is that, you know, there's still much to be learned. But I think having that exercise before you start will be more beneficial than at the end. Because it might actually help to sort of kick your body more towards the right internal body clock with what you're living. Absolutely. That's fantastic. Thank you, Karen, for letting me push you a little bit past your comfort zone. We heard the proviso, which is, I think, always what's fun of looking at this stuff that's really cutting edge. Now, is there anything, you know, if my wife was listening to this, is there any difference that you see between men and women in terms of these responses, either at particular times or over time periods?

40:30So not terribly much. I mean, to be honest, I think everything we've seen sort of, at least I've looked at in terms of circadian physiology and muscle would say like a variety of things, women tend to be more resilient and their rhythmicity tends to be more resilient. When you say more resilient, I just want to make sure I understand. Does that mean that they're more, help me to understand what you mean by that? Yeah. So what I mean by that is the rhythms are more robust. So when, you know, so you can kind of perturb them, but they, they stay on track a bit better. When we were talking about that sort of time of day differences in gene expression, they have a little bit stronger gene expression changes based on time of day.

41:14So does that mean that actually your advice on time of day might even be potentially more important for them because the differences are stronger or no? No, I think what we're learning with at least, you know, studies in women, studies in female animals is that they can handle a challenge, right? So they can handle whether it's a jet lag, whether it's something that interferes with the circadian clock or the timer function. The females handle that better than males. I wish you told me this five years ago because I remember when our little girl was really small, I felt that I was definitely struggling worse than Justine to deal with like all the interrupted nights.

41:59And now I'd be like, well, you know, science has proven that you're better able to cope with this. is I think what I'm hearing from you. It's just your biology. It's just your biology. But is that an example of what you're saying that that would potentially be more robust to these sorts of interruptions of, you know, the rhythm that you might get by being woken up by a small child sort of three times in the night? Absolutely. Do you see that robustness continue later in life? Because I think one of the things we see in a lot of the things that we study and Zoe's really interested in this personalization is that often, you know, as we get older, some of these different systems, maybe they're not as good as they were when you're 15.

42:40Do you see also that there's a difference between men and women over time in terms of how well these circadian systems continue? Yes. And so I think the challenge to understand right now is that the clocks continue to work as we get older. So the timer works, but it's like the... So when I talked about maybe the gears, have rubbed off and they don't, that, that part doesn't work. So it doesn't get translated into the sort of physiological output like it did when you were younger. And so it's, it slips. It just doesn't, you know, just stuff just doesn't work as well as we get older is sort of the analogy, I think in my head.

43:19So, so the evidence for the timer continuing to work is great. It looks wonderful, but, but, but, you know, the output, you know, the power of your car or the, what, However you want to think about that, that output is greatly diminished. And it's actually, unfortunately, starting to diminish by your age, for example. It just continues to go as we get older. And so this is an area we're very interested in trying to identify. And so does that mean that at my age and as I get older, the timing of the day doesn't necessarily matter so much because actually I'm not managing to switch the right things on and off in the same way?

43:58Well, I mean, that's possible. That's possible. Or, you know, the other side of it is it becomes more important to maintain regular behaviors like when you eat, when you exercise, to reinforce the clock function when we age. Oh, that's interesting. So it could be that actually you need to be more regimented because you need to support this because your body is not quite doing the... You're just depressing me with yet another thing that is already not working so well inside me, even though I can't see it. Karen, I do want to cover one other related thing to do with this circadian rhythm before we finish, because I know that what you call chrononutrition, so look at the time of when people are eating something also that your research is interested in.

44:37And it's a topic that we're very interested in. Zoe is one of the things that you can change and where I think there's been a lot of really interesting advice about, particularly I think about time-restricted eating, this idea that maybe narrowing the number of hours that you eat might in fact, be really good for your health. And I think you've done some specific research looking at as we get older, how the length of time that we're eating might actually have an impact on our muscles. Could you tell me about that? We actually haven't published some of this yet, but we do have some really nice data, again, in a preclinical setting where restricting time of eating with an older animal actually helps maintain muscle, lean body mass, muscle mass, and also helps maintain our ability to store glucose sugars.

45:33And so our systemic metabolic parameters are improved. No difference in the amount of food, just decrease the amount of time that they were allowed to eat. We decreased it to about eight to nine hours versus sort of, you know, letting them eat any time. And so it was really quite striking. And this effect occurred over sort of a five to six week window of time. So it wasn't like they had to be doing this their whole lifetime. It was something, you know, they took up for a month. And they already had some time. Did you say that this was testing animals, not in humans? Is that correct? Correct. Correct.

46:16And so is there any evidence about time periods in humans? And I think one of the questions that actually the team here were really interested to ask is, is there also a view on how there might be too short a window for people to be able to get everything they need in order to support their muscles, which I think is not often what people there's been a lot of focus on time restricted eating, for example, for people trying to, you know, manage their weight. And clearly, I think everyone's actually really interested in making sure they're maximizing their health. What does your, you know, what does your research and other research tell us?

46:51I mean, that's really important. And I think, I mean, that's one of the things, you know, so there have been a number of clinical trial, randomized clinical trials and younger adults with time-restricted feeding. But the impact of this on older people is not well understood. And I think it is an issue that one has to take into account. As far as I know, there's no data on that right now. The nuances is, you know, sometimes appetite goes down as people get older. And so, you know, trying to get them to eat a whole big meal is probably a much harder challenge. And so thinking about, you know, if it requires 12 hours, by all means, 12 hours.

47:30And so, or, you know, 14. There's a paper that was met several years ago. It was specifically dealing with people that have liver disease and are really challenged. And then they get what we call cachectic, or they get, you know, they lose muscle mass. They also will lose fat mass to some extent. And for reasons not related to circadian rhythms, this group gave them snacks at night. And they found that to be helpful. And so again, very consistent with the idea that they're eating at a time that the body's set to store. And so they're more efficient at storage when they eat there. So if you have a population that is actually potentially challenged in terms of lean body mass, what I would say is if you're going to play with time of feeding, you're going to want them to be eating more of their food at the later part of the day when the muscles are actually going into more of a storage phase to take advantage of that efficiency.

48:31So what we know about the muscle clock is that it actually partitions, you know, sort of use of fuels and storage of fuels. And so if you're older and you're concerned about losing muscle mass, then you know if you're going to think about what time you eat then then i would shift things later in the day so that you are eating more and and making sure you're getting enough protein so you probably have people talking about that as well and because that's another area older people tend not to do um and then but sort of target more of the afternoon evening eating got it and would that mean, so I think you're really distinguishing between maybe people who are younger and people who are quite a lot older, where you're starting to worry about them losing muscle.

49:19Maybe you're also worrying about their bones, it sounds like as well. And there, I think you're describing at that point, I think both saying that shifting later, the eating time may be helpful. I think you're also saying that you're quite cautious about having a really short eating window. So I want to make sure I understand. Is that what you're saying? Yes, you're correct. I think, you know, again, so just to make sure I'm really clear, what I'm working with is thinking about an older person. So I'm thinking sort of over 70 that is not worried about metabolic disease. So let's take metabolic disease off the table, but is just thinking about their health, thinking about maintaining their lean body mass.

50:04And so the, you know, discussing sort of making sure you have a big enough window. So if, you know, your appetite might be challenged, you have plenty of time and you're not trying to force speed yourself. And then maybe, you know, making sure that the end of your day, you're getting the kind of nutrition and an amount of food that you really need to sort of support the muscle health. Got it. So I think there's a real personalization you're describing here, because it sounds like you're also saying there might be somebody else who has maybe, you know, real metabolic problems, and therefore, perhaps you might reduce the timeframe.

50:41So this is obviously a really interesting area of research, it sounds like I'm guessing that there's gonna be a lot more research, looking at how this actually works in, you know, in humans, which we know, and I've learned through this, often behave differently from, you know, mice or whatever else, in order to understand how these time periods might really, you know, be optimized for people at particular stages of life. Yeah. And just a quick follow-up, because muscle clocks give us an ability to actually compare between the mouse and the human. And so what I will say is that the muscle clock and mice and human look very much the same.

51:22And so not that anybody wants to be a mouse, but just what we're learning from these preclinical models is translating quite well into the human condition. That's really interesting. So you're saying that actually, if I play that back, you're quite confident about how this will translate to human beings because of the similarity between the muscle in a mouse and the muscle in a person. Is that fair, Karen? Correct, yes. I mean, muscle is one of the few things we can get from humans in kind of a time series, right? So you're obviously not going to be getting heart or brain or any of these organs, But obtaining muscle biopsies every four hours for 24 hours has been done a few times now.

52:06And so we have real data that we can compare side by side with the mouse. And it's really quite impressive. So you're describing that like basically you're taking bits of muscle out of me every four hours to see what's changing during this 24 hour clock. I want to make sure I've understood that, Karen. Is that what you're saying? Correct. And then you're saying that looks a lot like a mouse. Is that what you're saying? Got it. And hence, when you do these studies on mice where you see what happens with, for example, time-restricted eating, it's actually making you feel really quite confident that that's going to work also in human beings.

52:40Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so if I play that back, just to conclude, because I think we focus a lot on the much older people, I think you're saying for this not yet published research that restricting the time of eating in these mice down to about eight hours actually really helped them to maintain muscle with nothing else changed. So actually for, and that your carry over, I think therefore to human beings is that if you were below 70, as you were describing, actually time-restricted eating could actually be really helpful in terms of maintaining muscle and therefore supporting health, independent of the things you do about changing what you eat and what exercise you do.

53:27Correct. What I think about a lot these days is how we can use scheduled exercise of time of exercise or time of feeding to actually leverage the benefits of what the clock is doing to sort of, so it is a very personalized approach to how we think about this. And last question for me, Karen, just to understand how that carries over, like what would be the sort of time restricted eating? What would be the period of eating in 24 hours that you would therefore guess would, you know, you would be applying to, you know, a human being under 70 who's listening to this show right now? I think, you know, just trying to eat primarily during the hours, you know, that you're the sort of active daylight phase of the day.

54:16So I, you know, I think about, I mean, you know, honestly, and just trying to be a human being who might like, for me, I like, I like good food. But, but, you know, just minimizing. So like a 10 hour windows, great. Then to some extent, you find what works for you. So there are people that are morning people, they may want to eat breakfast earlier, but that means they're going to finish during that, you know, earlier in the afternoon versus those people that wake up later, will finish later and, and, you know, try to minimize those, you know, snacks while watching TV. I find it really hard, Karen, to be honest.

54:51So like, I was really hoping you were going to say a longer number than that, because, you know, my colleagues like Tim Spector will be like, Oh, you see, I told you, Jonathan. So I am notorious for having to eat dark chocolate while watching TV on the sofa late at night. So I'm really not very good. And it's interesting to me that you said, you know, 10 hours, which is still, I think, much shorter period of time for eating than most people do, particularly if you accept that it includes, for example, a glass of wine or a beer would also count as, you know, eating in this definition, right? So a lot of us are like, oh, but I ate my breakfast at eight in the morning and, you know, it's nine o 'clock or nine 30 or whatever, and I'm still doing something and you're suddenly eating for 14 hours.

55:31But I think you're saying when we're thinking also for these muscles here, your guess is that we should be eating more in a sort of 10 hour period and giving our body more like 14 hours to recover. Is that? This is a great question. It's important and it's important for us to figure this out. Um, but I think, you know, and, and the other part of this is, you know, what you've brought up, what, what, how do we eat or how do we exercise to help maintain muscle mass as we aging? Now that may be different than if I am pre-diabetic or I'm diabetic and what are the kind of patterns I want to use to help my health?

56:08You know, once you start working with a patient population, they have circadian rhythm issues just, just by the fact that they have a disease. So we are way too early to actually give hard and fast rules on some of these things. Karen, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. I'm going to try and do a little summary. And please correct me if I got any of this wrong. So we started just saying like, why are muscles important? And I think what you talked about is that there's been a lot of things that we have been learning over the last few decades that show that they play a much bigger role than just helping to sort of, you know, pick things up.

56:50And that critically, there's very clear data that says that if you lose strength, this directly increases your probability of death. And I think everyone on this call is like, well, I would like to reduce my probability of death. But also I think everyone on this call wants to increase the number of healthy years that they have, right? It's not how long you live, it's how many healthy years you live. And I think there again, you're saying that your muscles have this huge impact on your ability to live independently. But also we now understand, I think you use this word myokine, that our muscles are actually creating chemicals that are going around to the rest of our body to our brain.

57:21So they're really affecting our overall health. So we need to do something about that. And I think you said in the same way that a number of our other guests that in particular, we need to think about putting more resistance exercise into our life. So, you know, walking is good, but you need to be doing some stuff that loads your muscles. And I think interestingly, you were saying, you know, for a lot of people listening to this, we're not maybe really big into exercise. It's going to be particularly sort of the upper body, sort of back and shoulder core, which you need to maintain. And that's what's going to give out.

57:53Then we talked about really your own area of research, which is talking about, you know, these body clocks that are, it turns out in every single cell in our body. And apparently you said ever since we were like a one celled creature, whenever that was a billion years ago, we've had these. So this is very deep inside us. And they're in our muscles because our muscles also need to have times in the day when they rest and times when they need to be ready to be active. And you said that, in fact, before we even wake up, they're sort of getting ready over a period, which is sort of hours rather than minutes.

58:23So there is this whole getting ready, being active and resting. That interestingly, your exercise can help to shift when your body clock is. So if, For example, you're in shift work. You should think about doing exercise at the beginning of your shift. It's going to help you to shift your body clock the same that you can use it if you're traveling on holiday somewhere to another time zone. That this has an effect on therefore when you should think about exercising. That interestingly, you're saying for almost all of us, we are strongest in the afternoon. You said sort of after 2 p.m. So I need to stop all of my 8 a.m.

58:58training. I should be doing it at 2 in the afternoon. And Karen is like, no, no, no, no. Okay, so I should continue my training. But if I could switch it to two in the afternoon instead of eight o 'clock, that would be better. If you like exercising at eight in the morning, the clocks in your muscle are gonna learn that and they're gonna shift. And so it probably will be that your time of strength and your time of endurance will shift with it. So what I'm saying is if you're going to train, try to be consistent with when you train. So if you're gonna train at six or eight in the morning, train that time.

59:30Don't do eight in the morning one day and eight in the evening one day. So my current schedule, which is bouncing all around to fit in with being CEO of Zoe, is terrible is what you're basically saying. So if I like it in the morning, then that's probably okay. My body will adjust to it. But if I'm bouncing around, then I'm not really up, which is interesting because I do find that when I do the sessions that are quite off my normal session, that I'm always like not up for it. But it's interesting. I hadn't thought about the consistencies. That's really interesting because you're saying the body clock is just going to be set to support this.

1:00:00And then we talked about how the body clock and muscles is related to the time of eating. And you shared this very exciting new research that says that actually restricting the time of eating, it helps to maintain muscle in mice and that you believe the evidence for that being applicable to human beings is really strong. And therefore, this is another argument for why time-restricted eating could really help with our health, given how much you've explained about the importance of muscles, that exactly what's right to you is likely to be very personalized, I think you said. So this is one of the areas where you see a lot of variation.

1:00:36So understanding exactly when you want to eat is important. But you did say like a 10 hour window is great. So if people, and most people listening to this probably are eating for more than 10 hours based upon actually, you know, the studies that we've done at Zoe, and I can see you nodding here. So like Reducing this is likely to be helpful with one sort of caution that for people who are older and you said, you know, sort of over 70, when you start to maybe have concerns around having enough muscle and bones and where potentially people's appetites are shrinking, it's much more important to extend the period of eating and make sure you're getting enough protein and enough nutrition rather than sort of say, well, no, it's more important to have this short window.

1:01:21That sounds good. Karen, thank you so much for that. I thought that was absolutely fascinating. And I hope we can get you back on in the future as we hear about the ongoing results of this research. Well, thank you very much, Jonathan. It was wonderful. And yeah, we look forward to what we learn in the next year or so. Brilliant. I really enjoyed it. Thank you very much. I think it's been incredible to learn all about staying strong as we age with Professor Karen Esther today and all of this amazing new research about how even our muscles have their own circadian rhythms. And I think one of the takeaways is physical activity is one of the key pillars of a long and healthy life.

1:01:59And of course, nutrition is another. Now, if you'd like to take your nutrition to the next level with personalized advice and support, you'll want to learn more about becoming a Zoe member. And as a podcast listener, you can get 10 % off your membership by going to zoe.com slash podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Wolfe. Zoe Science and Nutrition is produced by Yellow Hewins Martin, Richard Willen, and Sam Durham. As always, the Zoe Science and Nutrition podcast is not medical advice. It's for general informational purposes only. And if you have any medical concerns, please consult your doctor. See you next time.

1:02:54I'll leave you with one final thought. What if there was one simple habit that, when repeated, could change how you feel for the better? I'd like to tell you about something that I do daily for my own health. It's called Daily30, the gut supplement developed by our scientists here at Zoe. Daily 30 is made of over 30 hand-picked plants, including seaweed, fungi, and different types of fiber. It's a source of plant protein, omega-3, and vital minerals. You simply add a scoop to any meal once a day to support your health and increase the plant diversity in your diet. And unlike synthetic supplements, Daily 30 actually tastes great.

1:03:33It's designed to be enjoyed, because when a habit brings you joy, you're far more likely to stick with it. So next time you feel like your plate is missing extra plants, do yourself a favor, try Daily 30. It's a delicious and healthy habit that you'll feel good about and one that your gut will definitely thank you for. By the way, whenever we talk about Daily 30 as a good source of fiber, we're required to say that it contains four grams of total fat per serving. Obviously, that's all amazing healthy fats from plants. So, order yours today at zoe.com slash Daily 30. See you next time. Bye.