We risked it all! Does ZOE work? Here's what our latest trial results show

28:00And by accessing our app, it means that for any food that they're eating, they can look up what their ZOE food score is for that so that they can be educated in how it impacts their health. So we give them guidance on whether this is the kind of food that has maximum benefit for their health or whether it's a food that they might want to eat less frequently. They also have daily lessons and daily advice throughout this 12-week period that's educating them again on other aspects that we know are really important, such as the importance of sleep, the importance of physical activity, the importance of factors like fasting, for example, as well.

28:36So everything I do, every time I do this, I like learn different things. And I'm struck by, you know, when I, when I first started, which is probably maybe three years into my journey with both of you and about four years ago, you know, I was making my first big change, which was discovering that basically everything I was eating for breakfast, I thought was good for me was terrible for me. So that was like my first really big shift. And I was very focused on sort of my blood sugar in particular, because my blood sugar control had been very bad. I was eating lots of sort of highly processed carbohydrates and it was like shooting through the roof it was it was a bit scary actually and I'd also in that case I'd done this DEXA scan where they'd done this full body imaging which is not part of this trial and I discovered that I had all this fat in places that Tim was like that's really not a good place to have fat so that was that was that was sort of my big focus but what's interesting is each time I've done it again actually I've sort of unpicked another layer and I think for anyone who's listened to quite a lot of the podcasts, they can sort of understand that, you know, food is very complex and it's not just like one change or two changes.

29:40There are all of these different things. So maybe you could both share something that, you know, when you've done this again or certainly in the last 12 months, what have you sort of like discovered and shifted? Well, I recently discovered that delaying my breakfast makes quite a big difference to me, my energy levels and my mood and things. I've started swapping around some of my lunch, for example. What do you have for lunch today, Tim? This is always the number one question we get asked. Putting me on the spot. Well, I actually made my own vegetable soup. So I basically looked at the bottom drawer of the fridge, took out what was there, got some red onions, garlic, red peppers.

30:27then I added some mushrooms in there some leftover other bits can't remember what they were actually just some some vegetables some kale that was right it was looking a bit worse for wear and then I added some stock and a large jar of Italian white beans then some tomatoes some herbs spices bit of paprika brewed that up and then stick it in a blender and 20 minutes later, I had my soup with plenty of leftovers. And it was great. I really enjoy doing that because it's so different every time. I've learned that things like beans score particularly well, the great source of protein and fiber. And I realized I wasn't eating as many beans as I should have been.

31:11And so I'm always trying to find ways of incorporating beans. And this is one of the things that you've changed more recently, is it? yes try and get a whole variety of beans in jars and things some great ones out there you know if you don't look you don't see them and just think it's only baked beans or nothing so um that's that's been a change for me as well as adding fermented foods to many of my normal dishes so for people know me now i'm into my kimchis and my sauerkrauts and things but i actually started adding them to salads and salad dressings and cheese and things. So they're not an unusual thing to be eating.

31:50So you can have them more regularly. So I'm finding that interesting as I'm experimenting with that. And all these things don't really affect my blood sugar at all. So I know that there's no real downside to it. It's all good and it's all going to be good for my microbes, which hopefully when I get my test, I'll be able to prove. But I can't prove it quite yet. What have I changed? Well, I've obviously been in nutritional research for 25 years. And as you know, Jonathan, to your frustration, I've had quite a relaxed attitude to the food I eat. And I'm a firm believer in listening to your body, listening to how it feels.

32:24But I've never self-experimented. So when I first wore a glucose monitor, which actually wasn't that long ago, it was kind of like almost a eureka moment of putting two and two together that I often would get these slumps where I'd feel shaky, I'd get dizzy, I'd get really hungry. my poor kid. Never Sarah. Angry? No. You've not seen the half of it, Jonathan. I think Tim has occasionally. But I would feel awful. And I could never really work out what it was, despite all of the nutrition research that I've done and all of the nutrition research in this post-meal, this post-prandial area. And then when I wore a glucose monitor, what I found fascinating is when I look back and looked at any time that I was feeling this kind of awful feeling is when I was having a glucose dip, so blood sugar dip.

33:14And I noticed what particular foods were causing me to have those dips. So the kind of breakfast that I've always enjoyed, which is white bread, pan of chocolates, et cetera. So that's one of the big changes I've made is to change the breakfast I have and to be a bit careful to avoid foods that give me that dip because at the end of the day, I hate feeling like that. And so don't let him know. But I actually now have Tim's breakfast, like a large proportion of the population do. So a bit of Greek yogurt, a bit of kefir, some nuts and seeds and a little bit of dried fruit. But I don't want him to think he's educated me.

33:47Okay. Don't worry. It'll be our secret. Well, I was thinking about what I, there's so many things I've changed, but one of the things I was struck by is one of the big changes in our family is that Justine did Zoe probably about a year ago now. And that was a really big difference because I changed a lot of the meals I was eating on my own. So particularly breakfast and lunch, but actually dinner was a shared experience really driven by what the two of us would eat. I've been saying all of these things for ages. I think when Justine was on the podcast earlier, she also said, it was like, well, who's going to listen to Jonathan?

34:19But then she got her own results. And I think this is one of the power of Zoe that we were able to test in this RCT. suddenly it sort of all started to make sense. And so we changed our diet a lot. But interestingly, Justine has much better blood sugar control than me. So she's just generally better. And so we eat a much more similar breakfast than before, but she puts seeds on which are full of lots of dried fruit in it. And I refuse to put the dried fruit on because I know that basically my body treats that pretty much like sugar. It's like spiking up my breakfast and I eat a lot of breakfast anyway.

34:55So there's definitely quite a bit of spikes. So we have quite a similar breakfast, but we have these two different mixes to put on top. So it's like, you know, 90 % the same, 10 % different. Your own sprinkles. Exactly. I get to put my own sprinkles on. Exactly. I think, Jonathan, though, it's really important for listeners to say that having an increase in blood sugar, after a mole, is a normal physiological response. So I know we often talk about spikes and dips, but actually having an increase is normal. We don't want people to be obsessive about this and flatten the curve. But it's about looking at what is an excessive peak or a kind of response that actually you don't feel great about.

35:33That's what we want to be mindful about. And not everyone has them. I mean, we talked about your dips. We think about one in three women have these significant dips, but two out of three don't. So it is all about listening to your body, isn't it? And I think that's a great example of what our zooprotic research is showing just how different people are. So I get these dips to quite an extreme that I actually feel awful, like I've said. And we find that about 25 % of people have these big dips, but 75 % of people don't have any. But the 25 % of people that do get these kind of dips, we know from our own research that they actually eat about 300 more calories than an age match person that doesn't get these dips.

36:16they feel less energetic they feel less alert and they have lower mood and they get hungrier a lot more quickly and eat their next meal at a shorter time interval than if they didn't get a dip and i think that whilst i think we have to caution about over focusing on one piece of the puzzle so although we measure blood glucose it's just one of the many things that we look at what i think is really powerful with the continuous glucose monitor is it's actually the first time that most people will have been able to almost take a look inside their body. So I think it's a really good way for people to see, wow, the food that I'm eating is actually impacting me here and now, not in 20 years, not in 30 years, but here and now.

37:00And actually I can make changes to the here and now that in the long term will have a favourable effect. And we create these scores which combine looking at the blood sugar, looking at the blood fat, looking at the microbiome, understanding things like ultra-processed food, but then looking at you as an individual, right? So that they're quite different depending upon whether your blood sugar control is good or indeed risk factors that you might've had in the family. I think some people listen to this and saying that then suddenly you give them this like fixed diet from day one that they just have to follow.

37:31But maybe just finish off by helping people to understand. So what happens? How are you guided through? Because these participants were, well, who were these participants? What was their sort of average starting diet? Let me just talk through a little bit how the app was guiding them as a program. And then I think we've teased people for long enough. Let's talk about how the study came together and what the results look like. So the people that took part in our study were representative of the typical American. Age 40 to 70, all slightly overweight, not particularly healthy, but not either very unhealthy either.

38:07So pretty generalizable to everybody in Western Europe. And so just talk us through what happens, because we talked quite a lot about the test. We talked a bit about that initial bit. Just help us understand a little bit how the app guides you from the point that you get your results through that rest of this period within the membership that was tested in this study. So after the participants got their results in the Zoe arm of the trial, they were given their own personalized scores for each food, and they were given recommendations of menus, and ideas they could use. They were given healthy swaps of ways they could improve their breakfast scores, for example, and their lunch scores.

38:51And they had access to coaches to enable them to do that. So over the next few weeks, they got more confident about swapping out their foods for more healthy ones, knowing what to pick at the supermarkets, and sometimes downloading recipes and using those themselves. So generally, the idea was as time went on, they were getting a much better idea of what suited them and their health, and were consistently getting good scores, both by the meal, by the day, and then they would get a weekly score to check they were on track. And they were able to log in with their digital coaches to see they were on the right track.

39:29At the same time, we were asking about all kinds of things like mood and sleep and energy and exercise and all these things that are very important to this idea of this being a long-term plan rather than just a short punishment, if you like. So we wanted to check that they were very much engaged, but also able to sustain it and enjoy it. So tell us about the control. So the control group were individuals. So these were randomized randomly. And so where one group got the Zoe kit and the test and the program. The others were given the standard advice that all Americans are given through the American government, which are very similar to the UK Eat Well guidelines, which are used by government and NHS and GP surgeries and nutritionists around the country.

40:25And essentially, this is telling people to eat more fruit and vegetable. They're telling them to have a balanced diet. They're telling them to generally eat less fatty foods, eat more starchy foods and grains, and eat low-fat products wherever possible, such as spreads, and to try and record their calories so that they are not exceeding the calorie limits for men and women, which usually around 2 ,000 or 2 ,500. And you didn't mention calories before, but was there a calorie control in the people following the ZOE membership? No, in the ZOE membership program, we don't discuss calories. We've discussed this at great length and researched and found there's no evidence that calorie counting is a useful practical tool long-term and calorie restriction diets don't work for the vast majority of people doing.

41:21This is one of the important differences between the advice. So this is a big difference between official guidelines in most countries and what the ZOE program is trying to teach people. And the calories in a way are, in my view, a very negative view because they're distracting people from eating high-quality diets. They're obsessing about one particular facet of it, which is this artificially measured energy measurement, which means rubbish food can have very low calories but be really bad for you. And some really good food can have high calories and be very good for you. And this is why we're absolutely against it.

42:01But the people in the control group were told to do these things, some of which we agree with, like eating more fruits and vegetables, some of which we don't, like low-fat foods and counting calories. But that was essentially the model that is used in the healthcare systems of most of the Western world. And they had reminder leaflets, and they had regular phone calls, emails from coaches, making sure they were still aware of those guidelines. I was actually going to ask about that, Sarah, because were they just abandoned with this information? Because you're contrasting that with the ZOE membership, which has this app, which is sort of guiding you through.

42:39So we actually spent a lot of time as a science team thinking about what we wanted the control to be. And it's something in nutritional research, we spend a lot of time as nutritional scientists thinking about what we would want a control arm to be. Because there's different approaches you can take. And what we really wanted to do was compare how effective the ZOE program was in improving health versus standard practice. So that's why we chose the approach that we chose, because this is the standard practice. The standard practice is you're given a leaflet by your healthcare practitioner, which contains these population-based MyPlate, USDA guidelines.

43:19Now, some people might be followed up with some consultations. So that's why we made sure that our coaches were reaching out to them at regular intervals, checking in, asking if they needed any help. They also provided... Which I think was on a weekly basis, right? So actually this is pretty intense compared to anything you're likely to get if you go and visit your doctor. Yes. Although we intentionally made it not as intense as those following the ZOE program who have integrated within the program all of this information coming to them because we wanted to compare it with a real life scenario.

43:50That's so important. They also had a video that I put together giving them advice as well along the way. So we've got these two groups. People came in, they're randomly assigned between the two groups. One of them is the standard advice that you get from the healthcare system in the States or the UK, includes calorie restriction, has somebody checking in on you regularly. The other one is the Zoe membership. We've teased the audience for a long time. Can you tell us what the results were? I can. I have to beg. Will you share the results? Will you tell him or what shall I say? So I will tell you what some of the blood results were, and then I'm going to hand over to Tim, who's going to talk through the microbiome results.

44:35So one of the key things that we're interested in looking at was how did it change some key risk factors related to long-term diet related diseases. So risk factors such as our body composition, so our waist circumference, such as our blood fats, which we talked about earlier, the blood triglyceride levels. And what we found was that people who were following the ZOE program significantly reduced their blood fat levels compared to the people following the control arm. They also significantly reduced their weight and their waist circumference. And also in people that were really adherent to the ZOE program, so followed it really well, we also found that they reduced measures related to their blood glucose control and their insulin sensitivity as well.

45:18So it's like your blood sugar and things. Yes, yes. And then what we tried to do is also tease apart this whole question about adherence. So we know in the UK, one of the big problems, and it's the same in America, that actually only 1 % of people actually follow the guidelines. That it's actually quite challenging to follow these within our current food systems. And so what we did is we teased apart in our data those people who are very adherent to the UK dietary guidelines and those that were very adherent to the ZOE program guidelines as well. And what we found is even when we selected people who are really adherent to the control guidelines, so the population-based guidelines, compared them to those really adherent to the ZOE guidelines, that there was still this big difference.

46:06difference. So the ZOE program was still causing a big, significant improvement in the blood fats, in the body composition, like weight, waist circumference, and also blood pressure as well. And I have to say, this was a huge relief to me because as someone who has never done a randomized control trial before, you know, it wasn't used to be in academic science, right, had done data science prior to this. The idea that we were going to do this test, which has very strict rules, which we haven't really talked about, but there's very strict rules about this because it's done for life and death medicines and things like this.

46:39So you have to put in advance onto this global website exactly how you're going to do the study. You have to commit how you're going to measure it before you do it. You have to commit that you're going to publish the results. So basically, it's a bit scary. You were very nervous. I remember you took a bit of convincing that this was a necessary pain because there's always some uncertainty yeah and you can't hide this is what i think is great about research is if you do it properly like we did where you register your trial on clinical trials registration so everyone in the world can see that you're doing and you have an obligation to report the results so even if we had found that the zoe program didn't cause these significant improvements we would as scientists be obliged to publish these for the world to see so yes it was a big chance yeah i was like wow we spent all of these years doing this.

47:30We might prove it doesn't work. And I guess we'll just have to shut Zoe down. I was a bit nervous. I mean, Tim, how many of the wellness things that are out there actually go through this randomized control trial and how much of the advice that we hear about things that we should eat or take? If you look in this space, in this wellness space of all the apps that are out there, everything from your smartwatch to these heart rate monitors and all this other stuff, nothing has a randomized controlled trial in it. So it really is extremely unique that we're doing this and putting our heads above the parapet, ready to be taken down.

48:09And in doing so, you are exposing everything you're doing to criticism, which companies that never do it, never publish results, are never being exposed to. I think as well, going back to the results, there's some other really quite novel results for me as a nutritional scientist that we never ask people in research, how do you feel? So we do all of these, what we call objective measures, you know, take blood samples, take blood pressure, that sort of thing. But despite running 30 randomized control trials in nutrition science before joining Zoe, I've never actually said to someone, how did you feel?

48:43Which is quite funny because that's after all how we live our life is how we actually feel, right? Like it seems odd that you've never did that before. I know, but I think we're so preoccupied with these very objective, clear-cut, you know, chemical measures. Gosh, we mustn't do anything wishy-washy, like even ask someone how they feel. And so I've actually found it really exciting that one of the results that I think is most interesting for me, because it is quite novelist, we did ask people, what's your mood? What's your skin like? How energetic do you feel? How hungry do you feel? And we found that actually the differences in energy, in mood, in hunger, and many other of these self-reported feelings were a lot better in people following the Zoe program compared to those following the control.

49:27So, for example, we found that nearly 50 % of people following the Zoe program had improvements in energy compared to only about 10 % in those following the control. We found that sleep improved in 35 % of people compared to less than 10 % of people who were following the control. And we found that although people were reducing their weight, slowly, but reducing their weight, reducing their waist circumference, which we know is really important in terms of our health, that actually they felt less hungry. So lots of the Zoe people, a higher proportion said they feel more full, they're not that hungry.

50:05Which is the opposite you'd expect. So people on calorie restricted diets generally will lose some weight but feel hungrier. Which is why then they bounce back because they've got these huge hunger signals saying, well, you know, I need more food. They might be able to resist it for a few months. But then after a few months, the hunger signals just become too much and lots of people bounce back. And I guess that's exciting because this was an 18-week study because of how long it takes. You know, most people starting on Zoe are committing for a year at the beginning. And so would you hope to see better results at a year's time than you're seeing at this point?

50:41Oh, I think absolutely. The trajectory that we see in results, because we actually took measurements halfway through as well. So halfway through the 18-week period, we took measurements. And what we saw is there was a kind of a slope where people were improving more and more some of the outcomes. We particularly saw this in relation to the microbiome. but one more thing I just want to touch on with regards to our results I think is also really interesting is we also looked at people who are more adherent so following following the advice more yeah so we also looked at people who followed the advice more on the Zoe program than people who followed it less and what we found is the the more you followed the Zoe advice the greater the improvements were so we saw that if you followed the Zoe advice you had even bigger improvements in your blood fat, even bigger improvements in your reduction in blood pressure, bigger improvements in your weight, in your waist, and also your glucose control as well.

51:41And I think that's really reassuring because when we do these kind of studies, particularly in nutrition research, we always want to see if there's what we call a dose response effect, i.e. the more we give of that food, and it's the same in drug studies, the more you give of it, do you have a bigger effect. And the fact that we see this kind of stepwise increase in favorable outcomes with people following it more shows that kind of dose response effect. Makes you more confident that this is real and not some sort of unlikely chance of it. Or it's not a rebound because most diets will get a short-term benefit.

52:16People going on keto diets nearly all get some, if they can put up with it, the majority will get some benefit and lose weight and maybe feel slightly better short term. But then if you follow them up for three months, you can start to get a rebound. And so by one year, most of that benefit has been lost. So you get this sort of improvement and then a rebound. So we're not seeing that at all. We're seeing much more sustained benefits, which fits in really with the philosophy that this isn't just about changing one thing instantly. It's about educating people about a new way of eating, about a new way of selecting foods, changing their old habits slowly.

53:01It's not easy, as you know. You know, you were a big oat porridge man. I was. probably ate lots of bagels and smoked salmon. I did. It takes a while to start phasing that out. And it's similarly true even for Sarah. Tim, I'm not eating your soup with all those beans yet for lunch. Give me a bit of time. Give me another five years. We'll report back. But I think, you know, we've all noticed in our journeys that, you know, we couldn't do all this in three months. and it you know and actually a year or two later you're still improving and tweaking it and working out what suits you what makes you hungry what gives you more energy what you know what is best for you that also tastes great and is fun and doesn't restrict your lifestyle and it is a journey very much so this is why it's so great to see these trajectories improving and what sarah didn't mention is you know what really i like and the long-term benefits of this are on your gut health.

54:06And they do take longer to kick in. And so we obviously measured the gut health at the beginning and at the end. And the measure we're now using is the ratio of the good bugs to the bad bugs. And this is a new measure that we're taking throughout Zoe now. It's quite revolutionary. And this allows us much better to track gut health than we have in the past. And so we saw in the difference between the two groups, there was a significant difference in good bugs versus bad bugs between the two groups. As people were on the ZOE program, the longer they're on it, the more they were getting a higher ratio of good bugs and less of the bad bugs, the longer the study went on and the more compliant or adherent they were.

54:55So just looking at that graph, that's going to get even better at a year or two years as again, they start to understand the things that improve it. And I think it's really exciting now that we're starting retesting in our normal members, get a chance to actually see how they're progressing and, you know, give them milestones to hit, if you like, rather than going in the dark. So these can be really effective tools for pointing us all in the right direction. And because with this study, we did what we call in research a midpoint measure. So midway through the trial, we did measurements of the microbiome of weight and all these other outcomes.

55:33It allows us to see what that kind of trajectory is. So like Tim said, what we saw was that there was some improvement in the microbiome at the midpoint, but it got even higher at the next measure that just shows that this slow increase, and we always want, I think, a slow change to happen, that it's continuing to increase. And what was interesting, going back to the control group and what we were talking about with weight and the sustainability, we found that there was a very small reduction in weight in the control group at the midpoint measure. But then we found that it rebounded above their original weight in the control group.

56:10So they lost a little bit of weight at the beginning and then they went above. They went back above. And that's what you see with all calorie focused weight loss trials. You see exactly that. You see an initial weight loss and it rebounds up. We saw exactly that. But what we saw with our trial is a small amount of weight loss, quite similar to the control group at that midpoint, but then it continued along that same trajectory at the end point. They're continuing losing more weight at the end than at the beginning, than at the middle. Yes, absolutely. That might be because the microbes are improving as well.

56:41So they're giving off the good chemicals. They're helping the whole system, helping your energy management system work much better. and people are choosing foods rather than being low calorie, you're actually helping them reduce the hunger pangs. And it's a process, right? They're not suddenly switching to this perfect diet on day one. This is a process of adjusting what you're doing. So one thing I'm struck by is normally when you do these RCTs, like it's on some sort of drug, you prove it works and that's it, right? Then you go out and you try and sell it as much as possible around the world and hopefully, you know, treat some sort of serious issue.

57:17So is that the situation here? Is that sort of like great big check mark, you know, the Zoe membership works? Well, great big check mark, the Zoe membership works. And importantly, the Zoe membership works actually in a nationally representative group of people. Who hadn't heard of Zoe. Yeah. So these aren't our typical customers that are already like really motivated to change their diet. So I think that's really worth a mention. But no, it's not. Jonathan, we are continually improving the whole experience. And that's what's really exciting for us on the science team. So how the program looks now versus how it was when we did the study, even though it only finished just over six months ago, it's even better.

57:59So in the publication and when we presented this research, we talk about it as being our first version. Our first version of? our first version of the Zoe program, because it's continually evolving as we learn more from our own data. So there's loads of new features that are now in the program that I think make it even better and a lot better. And so what I want to do, actually, I'm going to ask you now, because you can't say no in this situation. In a year, I'd like to repeat the RCT, which means a lot of money and effort, because I think that actually in a year with all the new features that are going into it, we will double the improvement that we've seen.

58:40I genuinely believe that. I think that sounds amazing. I think one of the things that, you know, we talked about the excited me coming from... Sorry, did you say yes? You'll give us the money to do that. We would like the money to be able to repeat the RCT in a year. Let's do it. We've got to hold him to that now, Tim. Let's do it. And I think what I was going to say is one of the things that excites me is, you know, coming from sort of a background in data science and technologies, we're just used to our technology constantly getting better, right? We all know that the iPhone today is so much better than before, that the experience of using Google search or whatever compared to when it first came out.

59:17And generally, that's not the way that we tend to do things in healthcare for some good reasons, but it's also part of what makes it, I believe, so slow and hard that you have this huge long period for many drugs is like 10 years and a billion dollars to do the RCT. And there's no mechanism to then keep learning and improving it. And I think what's really exciting with this approach where everyone in Zoe can choose to participate in the studies and give more data, and we can keep measuring these things all the time, is you can really continue to improve this dramatically. And I think that for me is the thing that really motivates me to come in every morning.

59:52Yeah. And it's super exciting. You're absolutely right. And we're doing things that we couldn't do if we were a standard medical device company. We'd have to lock in whatever we found two or three years ago and sell it. And we know it was out of date and we could do much better, but the rules would be so limited. So this is a fantastic opportunity for people in this sort of lifestyle space to make all the running stuff that the old traditional pharma and medical devices just can't do because the rules are just absolutely wrong for the technology. Absolutely. And of course, we don't treat any disease.

1:00:29It gives us much more flexibility there. But I think it is this amazing opportunity ultimately to come up with something that is just so much better because of this ability to keep improving. So yes, I think it would be great to do it again in a year because I think the playback of everything you and the rest of the science team are learning should allow it to be much better. Yeah, and I think what this study has shown us is that we're on the right path. We knew as scientists, we believe we're on the right path, but it's proven we're on the right path. But like Tim said, what's exciting is we're going to go even further on that journey.

1:01:00And the further we go on that journey and the more data we collect and the more features we add, and the more we learn about what is impactful and what isn't impactful, then we're creating a program and a way of life that people can follow that we know will have the maximum benefits for their health. Brilliant. Well, let me do my quick summary. I think in this case, it's all very clear, but I will do it quickly. The first thing is, I think we said, look, we've just done this big randomized control trial. It's really exciting. We've just announced it at this big conference. It's really extremely unusual to do something like this, but it's really important, we think.

1:01:37We ran with these two groups, one having the same experience as if they were members of ZOE, the other one with this control, which is very representative of what's supposed to be the best advice that you would get in the States or in the UK if you went and saw a doctor with actually probably quite a lot more support than you would generally get. And the good news is the results show that Zoe works. We saw improvements in lipids, which is the blood fats. We saw improvements in weight. We saw improvement in waist circumference, which you said briefly, but I think we know from a lot of the other podcasts is directly related to health, which is why I think it's something that is so important.

1:02:15And then really excitingly for people who are more adherent. So there's a big range of how much people within the ZOE arm of this study followed ZOE. And for the people who actually really followed it quite closely, we saw significantly better results than that average. You saw bigger improvements in all of those measures. And you also saw a bunch of improvements in things to do with blood glucose control and insulin and these things, which we know are very important for things like diabetes. And then amazingly, we also asked them how they felt and saw these really profound differences between the two arms, one of which, which is all about calorie restriction, which we know is really difficult and not very sustained.

1:02:54One, which is really about saying actually nothing's off the table. And there, I think you said half of the people, for example, said they had more energy who are following the Zoe arm. Is that right, Sarah? That's correct. Brilliant. And finally, we said, we think the best is yet to come. And you signed me up on air to spend the money to launch another RCT in a year's time. So we will keep you posted. And I think final thing to say is there is a full written paper that's in sort of the peer review process that always takes a long time. So you start generally by having this peer review process with these conferences, which is out.

1:03:31There will be a paper that follows. And we will, of course, share that with everyone when that happens. Thank you. You got it. Amazing. Thank you both. thank you sarah and tim for joining me on zoe science and nutrition today it's been an absolute pleasure to have two great scientists share their incredible research with you today and to give you the first glimpse at how zoe's personalized nutrition program actually performs in a randomized controlled clinical trial if after listening to this you'd like to see if zoe can help you with your goals then you can learn more about zoe and get 10 off by going to zoe.com slash podcast As always, I'm your host, Jonathan Wolfe.

1:04:12Zoe Science and Nutrition is produced by Yellow Hewins Martin, Richard Willen, and Tilly Fulford. See you next time.

1:04:29I'll leave you with one final thought. What if there was one simple habit that, when repeated, could change how you feel for the better? I'd like to tell you about something that I do daily for my own health. It's called Daily 30, the gut supplement developed by our scientists here at Zoe. Daily 30 is made of over 30 hand-picked plants, including seaweed, fungi, and different types of fiber. It's a source of plant protein, omega-3, and vital minerals. You simply add a scoop to any meal once a day to support your health and increase the plant diversity in your diet. And unlike synthetic supplements, Daily 30 actually tastes great.

1:05:08It's designed to be enjoyed because when a habit brings you joy, you're far more likely to stick with it. So next time you feel like your plate is missing extra plants, do yourself a favor. Try Daily 30. It's a delicious and healthy habit that you'll feel good about and one that your gut will definitely thank you for. By the way, whenever we talk about Daily 30 as a good source of fiber, we're required to say that it contains four grams of total fat per serving. Obviously, that's all amazing healthy fats from plants. So, order yours today at zoe.com slash daily30. See you next time.