How The IRS Is Navigating Tax Season In 2026

14 Apr 2026 · 44 min · 24 chapters

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In short

How the IRS is handling the 2026 tax filing season amid major staffing losses, IT modernization changes, and shifting enforcement priorities; what taxpayers should expect (refund timing, phone access, paper-check delays), plus risks from complex new tax deductions and fraud/scams.

Guests (backgrounds)

  • Richard Rubin, U.S. tax policy reporter for The Wall Street Journal.
  • Nina Olson, former IRS National Taxpayer Advocate (until 2019); now Executive Director of the Center for Taxpayer Rights.
  • Vanessa Williamson, senior fellow at Brookings; author of The Price of Democracy.

Key claims

  • IRS service has prioritized intake/refunds/phones, so filing is “relatively smooth,” but paper-check refunds are delayed.
  • Enforcement/audits are down due to staffing cuts; audits increasingly rely on automated correspondence.
  • New deductions (overtime/tips) are complex and employers may not report needed info, increasing confusion and fraud risk.
  • Direct File was canceled; free filing options are limited.

Notable examples

IRS phasing out paper checks; IRS fraud-dedicated teams for overtime/tips provisions; scams using fake “Taxpayer Advocate” letters; mystery-shopping found only 2 of 6 independent preparers correct.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Tax Season Overview and Challenges

0:26 to 1:36

Explore the complexities of the IRS and tax filing for 2026.

“taxes are one of those tedious but required parts of life.”

Current State of the IRS and Tax Season

4:14 to 5:56

Understand how staffing changes affect the IRS's operations.

“So I want to separate it into two buckets.”

Impact of Leadership Changes on Tax Compliance

5:56 to 7:11

Discuss how leadership departures affect IRS enforcement.

“Vanessa, what changes have you been tracking since President Trump came back into office, especially when it comes to staffing of IRS teams that work on tax compliance?”

IRS Operations Beyond Tax Day

7:11 to 7:58

Learn about the IRS's year-round functions and taxpayer support.

“And also, we've seen some cases of efforts to change enforcement practices for either people that the administration sees as political enemies, like Harvard University, or political friends as well.”

Modernizing the IRS: Challenges and Goals

7:58 to 9:45

Explore the efforts to update IRS technology and service efficiency.

“And since most returns are refund returns, that means that people are waiting for action to be taken or that they need they get a letter from the IRS saying you need to come in and give us some documentation.”

Historical Challenges Facing the IRS

9:45 to 12:00

Understand the historical context of IRS funding and public perception.

“And the Trump administration has come in and undone a lot of the IT contracting.”

Status of National Taxpayer Advocate Office

12:00 to 12:46

Discuss challenges faced by the National Taxpayer Advocate office.

“And it was really only after that that we started to see the kinds of reinvestments that were turning the agency around.”

Public Experiences with Tax Season

12:46 to 13:38

Hear about personal experiences and concerns regarding tax filing.

“But before we go, we heard from Jack, a member of the 1A Tax Club.”

Changes to Tax Code and Impact on Overtime Taxation

13:38 to 14:01

Learn how new tax laws affect overtime taxation practices.

“Each story you hear on Planet Money starts with a question.”

Tax Day Experiences

14:01 to 14:26

Listeners share their tax experiences during the current season.

“and start seeing how the economy really works.”
Show all 24 chapters

Changes to Overtime Taxation

14:26 to 15:10

Discussion on the implications of tax policy changes regarding overtime.

“It included several changes to the tax code that President Trump campaigned on.”

Understanding Overtime Deductions

15:10 to 16:27

Explaining the complexities of claiming overtime deductions and potential confusion.

“I mean, Congress was like working within fiscal constraints.”

Concerns About Fraud and Scams

16:27 to 18:33

Discussion on the risks of fraud related to new tax policies and taxpayer confusion.

“Nina, what's happening with that deduction this year?”

Identifying IRS Scams

18:33 to 20:32

Advice on how to identify legitimate IRS communications and avoid scams.

“Unscrupulous people are going to say, oh, come to me to file your taxes.”

Impact of Tax Cuts on Refunds

20:32 to 24:37

Exploring how tax cuts are affecting tax refunds and the implications for taxpayers.

“You know, I would call the 1040 number and be prepared to wait, but get through.”

Wealth Disparities in Tax Benefits

24:37 to 26:55

Analysis of who benefits from the current tax legislation and its socioeconomic impact.

“But the vast majority of the benefit of this bill went to very, very wealthy people.”

Challenges of Filing Taxes

26:55 to 28:00

Discussion on the increasing costs and complications of filing taxes using software.

“Well, as we've been discussing, it's always tricky to file your taxes, especially if they're complicated.”

Challenges with Free Tax Filing Options

28:00 to 30:25

Explore the history and current issues surrounding free tax filing options and their implications for taxpayers.

“And the IRS at that point said, we don't have the bandwidth to create this.”

The Connection Between Taxes and Democracy

31:01 to 38:13

Discuss the historical relationship between taxation and democracy, including enforcement issues and the IRS's role.

“Let's get back to our discussion about tax filing season in the state of the IRS.”

Future of IRS Technology and Enforcement

38:14 to 42:02

Examine the IRS's modernization efforts and the potential impact of AI on tax enforcement.

“The IRS tax gap studies have shown this repeatedly and constantly over time.”

Misinterpretations of Tax History

42:02 to 42:30

Learn about the historical misunderstandings surrounding the tax system.

“And that history has really been misinterpreted over the years.”

Modernizing the IRS: Technology and AI

42:31 to 43:16

Discover how the IRS is leveraging technology and AI for efficiency.

“Well, I want to turn to the agency's future.”

AI and Taxpayer Privacy Concerns

43:17 to 44:38

Explore the implications of AI on taxpayer privacy and IRS operations.

“And the result is, yeah, everything was actually fine.”

Concerns for Vulnerable Taxpayers

44:39 to 46:05

Examine who might be left behind in the evolving tax system.

“Well, I want to wrap on this email we got from Rudy.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Support for this podcast and the following message come from Allianz Travel Insurance. Your flight booked, your lungs suddenly battling bronchitis. Travel insurance helps protect your travel budget so you can book again once you feel better. Learn more at AllianzTravelInsurance.com.

0:25Whether you sat down and finished your taxes months ago or you put it off until recently, taxes are one of those tedious but required parts of life. Once you send them off to the IRS, you assume that's that. The agency can handle your return. In short order, the IRS will send you a refund or take some money you still owe. This tax season, though, things look a little less clear. The Trump administration has caused tumult at the IRS over the past year. 25 ,000 employees left the agency in 2025. The entity Doge successfully terminated around 4 ,000 probationary employees who were new to the agency, and approximately 21 ,000 took deferred resignations or quit.

1:07Meanwhile, over three-quarters of the agency's senior leadership left, and Republicans in Congress took back billions of dollars the IRS had received to improve its systems and then gave it more tax code changes to enforce. What's the effect of all that on the tax filing season? I'm Jen White. You're listening to the 1A Podcast. Today, we talk about taxes and our democracy. What's the link? And how important is it that our main tax agency, whether you're fond of it or not, functions well? We'll be back with answers to these questions and more after this quick break. Stay with us.

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3:09Enter your license plate or VIN, get a real offer down to the penny, and schedule a pickup on your time. No surprises. Sell your car today at Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply. Welcome back to the 1A podcast. We're talking about changes at the IRS under President Trump's second administration and what that means for you and your taxes. Let's get into our conversation and meet our guests. Joining us in studio is Richard Rubin. He's a U.S. tax policy reporter for The Wall Street Journal. Richard, welcome back to the program. Thanks for having me. Joining us from Washington, D.C. is Nina Olson. She was the National Taxpayer Advocate at the Internal Revenue Service until 2019.

3:48She's now Executive Director for the Center for Taxpayer Rights. Nina, welcome back to you. Hello. Thank you for having me, too. And joining us from Washington, D.C. is Vanessa Williamson, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, where she covers tax policy. She's also the author of The Price of Democracy, The Revolutionary Power of Taxation in American History. And Vanessa, yet again, welcome back to the program. Oh, glad to be here. So, Richard, as we near what is officially tax day, how would you describe the state of the IRS right now as a functioning agency, given the changes we've described over the past 15 months?

4:23So I want to separate it into two buckets. The two main parts of the service are service and enforcement. And the administration, to get through this tax season, which is very politically important to them, has tried to make the service part work as well as it can. So you've got the new deductions for tips and overtime and seniors that they're trying to push out the door. And so they've made it a real priority to intake returns, get refunds out quickly, and answer the phones this year. And that's – the phone numbers are down a little bit, but they're not like giant lines like we've seen in some prior years.

4:59And refunds are going out. The biggest hitch has been on essentially paper checks. The administration is trying to phase out paper checks. So if you're filing on paper or trying to get a paper check back, there are some real delays there. But they've really made some priority just to get through this filing season. The enforcement side is audits, collections, that kind of thing is down significantly. And so we've seen reductions in the number of audits of high-income people, of large partnerships. And thousands of employees have left particularly on that enforcement side. And so they're down below the numbers where they were headcount-wise five or six years ago, which itself was a low point in terms of that.

5:41So I think there's almost like two stories in one. And in the long run, the service side faces challenges as well. But I think for this filing season, most of the reports we've seen are that the filing has gone relatively smoothly. Vanessa, what changes have you been tracking since President Trump came back into office, especially when it comes to staffing of IRS teams that work on tax compliance? Yeah, so about a quarter of the IRS staff was lost last year. And as you noted, three quarters of the senior leadership, a lot because of concerns about changes to taxpayer privacy and the new MOU that was between IRS and ICE.

6:21So a lot of people left over that. That MOU is now currently stopped in the courts. But on the enforcement side— And just to be clear, the MOU, it's a memorandum of understanding. That's right. Sorry. Go ahead. Tax jargon. It's unavoidable. So one of the things we've seen is both a real reduction in audits and at the same time a shifting for last summer of IRS law enforcement, you know, the criminal investigation side of things, over into ICE enforcement. So there have been a couple different ways that the enforcement has shifted. And I think that the moves of the previous administration, the Biden administration, to increase enforcement for high earners is where you've seen a lot of the losses, both because many of those people were relatively new employees, so they were probationary, and also because there's a new sort of politicization of enforcement that we're seeing moving people over to immigration enforcement.

7:17And also, we've seen some cases of efforts to change enforcement practices for either people that the administration sees as political enemies, like Harvard University, or political friends as well. Nina, we talk a lot about April 15th, but the IRS operates year-round. So what work does the agency undertake after April 15th that affects people's taxes and finances? Yeah, that's a really good point. And I'd like to say, you know, we need to talk about the morning after, you know, April 15th. And this really affects taxpayers. The IRS has a lot of filters that stop returns from being processed. And since most returns are refund returns, that means that people are waiting for action to be taken or that they need they get a letter from the IRS saying you need to come in and give us some documentation.

8:13And this is where I'll really differ with Richard about the phones. We as the center has a low income taxpayer clinic and we spend time on the phones, as do many other clinics. And when you are when taxpayers are trying to reach the IRS in order to prove their identity to release a refund, they are being either getting disconnects or being put on long wait times. And so I think some of this stuff is not transparent right now. But as time goes on and people are moved away from the phones to other tasks, that's where you'll see the real impact of the staffing cuts on the taxpayer service side. Well, there were efforts under the Biden administration to modernize the IRS.

8:57Richard, what did it try to give the agency? I mean, it tried to update the technology of the agency. I mean, in addition to adding people, what they're trying to do is make it easier so that you as a taxpayer can connect with the service online in much the same way you would deal with a bank or another financial institution online. And the same thing for the IRS person on the other side of that transaction. They have multiple systems that haven't always talked to each other very well. So the aim was to come in and make it easier that they could, you know, Jen, if you call in, that they can say, oh, here's like Jen's payment plan that she's on and here's all her returns and here's the three other times she called and here's the notices and they can see them all on one screen.

9:39And that has not been easy for them. And I don't think – my understanding is they're not all the way there yet. And the Trump administration has come in and undone a lot of the IT contracting. They basically said there was a lot of unnecessary contracts. And I think it's still a little early to have a clear window into whether that was the right move and they're heading towards something that's more technologically efficient and helpful and modern. And then there's also technological work they're doing on the enforcement side to use AI to decide which returns to audit. And so we're starting to see them move in that direction as well.

10:16You know, Vanessa, we're starting the conversation 15 months ago, essentially. But just give us a little more background on historically what's happened around investment or the lack thereof in the IRS. Yeah, so the IRS, basically as long as there's been sort of a very strong anti-tax strain in the Republican Party, so dating back at least to Reagan, the IRS has really been sort of a popular punching bag on both sides of the aisle for people who are trying to prove their anti-tax credentials. And that has basically resulted in two things. One, we've seen sort of consistent, you know, sort of decay of the agency.

10:52Their investments aren't consistently getting made that need to be made as the economy is growing, as the tax code got more complicated, you know, as the population is larger, the IRS has not been given the funds it would need to keep up with those changes. And then the other thing you see is sort of sporadic sort of pseudo-scandals that are kind of ginned up where the IRS is the point of those. So one of those was in 2004. There was accusations that the IRS had been unfairly targeting Tea Party organizations but not left-leaning organizations. There was an earlier example in the 90s during the Clinton administration about how the IRS was over-enforcing in various ways.

11:29And by and large, these scandals are not really based in fact. They're, you know, over a long period of time, the truth comes out that these are overblown stories and so forth. But in the meantime, the IRS has taken a huge hit to its sort of public persona. And one of the things that the IRS has a hard time doing is defending itself in those situations because they take taxpayer privacy so seriously, right? And so there's that long decay and then these sharp sort of attacks. And it really left the agency on its back foot. By the end of the 2010s, it was hugely understaffed. It was hugely underfunded.

12:01And it was really only after that that we started to see the kinds of reinvestments that were turning the agency around. Well, Nina, you were the national taxpayer advocate at the IRS until 2019. What's the status of that office now? Well, that office is also understaffed. They have changed their priorities. They're not accepting certain cases. I spoke earlier about refunds. Last year, they said that they were not accepting any refund cases until, you know, nine months into the year. And so that office, which is supposed to help taxpayers who are experiencing significant hardship, is very difficult to get in touch with.

12:42And that's largely a staffing issue. We have to take a short break. But before we go, we heard from Jack, a member of the 1A Tax Club. He wrote in to say, as a 26-year-old, I have never claimed anything on my taxes. I don't understand why our tax returns must be so complicated compared to other countries' tax systems. Well, coming up, technology at the IRS and why a functioning IRS counts for more than dollars and cents. We'll be right back.

13:11This message comes from NPR sponsor, the Capital One VentureX Business Card. Every business owner needs a serious business travel card that can keep up with their needs. With the Capital One Venture X Business Card, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, no matter where your business may take you. Plus, big purchasing power means you can spend more and earn more. The Capital One Venture X Business Card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for details. Each story you hear on Planet Money starts with a question. What happens if we refund tariffs? Why are groceries so expensive?

13:50At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious, because the forces shaping our world can be hard to see. Follow NPR's Planet Money wherever you get your podcasts and start seeing how the economy really works. Let's get back into our conversation. A tax day is April 15th, and many of you are sharing your experiences this season with us. Chad in Indiana texted, I didn't mind this past weekend. I work as a public middle school teacher and also have a second job. I owe about$1 ,200. Chad, thanks for that message. Richard, I want to go to you for this next question. Republicans in Congress passed their large tax cuts in spending bill last summer.

14:29It included several changes to the tax code that President Trump campaigned on. First, no tax on overtime. How is that policy filtered down to how the IRS is actually taxing overtime now? So this one, first of all, it's not no tax on overtime. It's a deduction for some overtime pay limited to the half of time and a half pay. So if you make$40 an hour and then you're getting that extra$20 increment for those overtime hours, it's the 20 that qualifies. It's capped by dollar amount. It's capped by income. And it only counts if you are required to work overtime under the Federal Fair Labor Standards.

15:07So really straightforward. So they tried to limit it. I mean, Congress was like working within fiscal constraints. I mean, the bill increased deficits, but like they really were trying to work within some fiscal constraints. And that meant they put conditions on this. And what we found so far is we had a story about this recently, that the number of people who are claiming that deduction is likely to be close to two times as many as thought. And we think some of it, maybe people just writing down whatever number, some of it may be confusion. This year, because they put this in effect for tax year 2025, employers aren't providing information about that.

15:43So, you know, normally, like for regular wages, you know, if you make$75 ,000, the IRS sends you a W—your employer sends you a W-2 that says$75 ,000. They send the IRS the same thing. You know, that's true. In the future, there'll be a box that will have qualified overtime compensation. This year, that's not the case. And so it's left a lot of employees, a lot of taxpayers on their own to figure out what that is. And, you know, we'll see how the IRS enforces that. But it's been one of those breaks that has made average refunds higher and millions, tens of millions of people are claiming it. The real question is whether they're actually claiming the right thing.

16:19There's also the president's push for no tax on tips. The agency had to write that policy into tax regulations. Nina, what's happening with that deduction this year? How are people filing to take advantage of it? Well, I think sort of what Richard said about no tax on tip overtime, or what they're calling, is the same thing with tips, is that employers are often not reporting the accurate amount. There's a lot of confusion on how to report things. The guidance says, for example, if it's added as a standard service charge, like an 18 or 20 percent service charge to a restaurant check, that's not a gratuity.

17:02And that's not part of the no tax on tips component. I did find something really interesting. I think it was last week that there was basically a news release from the IRS saying that they had created a dedicated team to look at fraud in both of these provisions. And I think that's a very subtle way of saying this may be the next, you know, big employee retention credit problem for the IRS to chase down. And these will be people that are, you know, not necessarily, you know, able to defend themselves against an IRS audit or, you know, review of some sort. We'll talk a little bit more about the options people have for filing in a moment.

17:48But Vanessa, when we're talking about fraud compared to just people not understanding the tax code, especially if you're not using an accountant or some kind of tax filing service, how often do people get caught up in just confusion about what they can actually file for or not? Yeah, I'm very worried about fraud this year and about scams this year in particular. Again, just sort of preying on people's confusions. There's been so much hype around no tax and no overtime, no tax on tips. And then it's actually, as Richard explained, this very complicated process. And so I'm very worried about both taxpayers making honest mistakes and then getting caught up in an auditing process.

18:29And then also I'm worried about the possibility that people are going to be taking advantage of that. Unscrupulous people are going to say, oh, come to me to file your taxes. I can get you this huge refund. You've heard it in the news. There's these wonderful deals that you can get. And, you know, that's really been hyped by a lot of politicians. And, you know, when people go to fraudulent preparers, it can be so costly to them. And there are also serious issues with identity theft. And, you know, the IRS is understaffed, so they're not going to be able to do the kind of law enforcement work they usually do that protects the public and protects taxpayers.

18:59I just want to mention here we did reach out to the IRS for this program. We did not receive a response, but the door remains open. We got this question from Sandra, who says, yesterday I received a scam call from someone saying they were from the IRS. Does the IRS ever call people on the phone? Nina, what can you tell us from your experience inside the agency? Well, we're hearing a number of things. We are hearing that sometimes the IRS does call people when you have actually written them and are in an appeal or something like that. But the IRS's position is we'll send you a letter first. It doesn't email.

19:34It doesn't send faxes. It doesn't send texts. If you have an online account, you can get things through that. But then you're going in and signing in. So you've verified your identity that way. So you really need to be careful. And these people are very, very clever. However, I'll say one more thing. As the National Taxpayer Advocate, we saw scams where people were sending out letters that literally looked like the letterhead of the Taxpayer Advocate Service and my signature on letters that were clearly scams saying we can help you with your refund. Just put your Social Security number in and your mother's last maiden name and everything like that.

20:13So if someone receives an IRS notice or something they think is an IRS notice about something being wrong with their return or the agency thinking the taxpayer owes money for some reason, how should they respond? What's the best way to ensure this is actually a notification from the IRS? You know, I would call the 1040 number and be prepared to wait, but get through. There's an option that you have a question about a notice. So you have whatever the communication is, and then you know that the 1040 number, 800-829-1040, is an IRS number. And a sister can look up and say, we didn't send you that, or yes, we did, and here's the issue.

20:56Well, we're hearing from many of you. Another member of the tax club writes, our federal taxes definitely increased, and we were weighed down emotionally knowing our federal taxes are going to fund a misaligned government. Another of you shared this year, I did get a big refund, but I don't expect that next year. They aren't withholding as much money. I'm concerned I'll have to pay. I want my taxes to pay for health care and education. Now, the one big beautiful bill act that included these tax cuts is expected to lower the amount of money the IRS takes in. Part of that is because taxpayers are receiving larger refunds.

21:31Now, Republicans, including President Trump, touted the size of the refunds people will get this year. Vanessa, what are we seeing so far? How big have tax refunds been on average compared to past filing seasons? Yeah, I think the people who've been writing in have given a good picture of it. I mean, we're seeing bigger refunds. Part of it is that they passed these new deductions, these new breaks, and then made them apply for the current tax year, which explains both the confusion and the larger refunds. But those are, of course, temporary. They're going to phase out in a couple of years. At least that's what the current law says.

22:06So, yeah, so I think that there are definitely people seeing larger refunds this year because of this bill, but there are also people seeing a lot of confusion and a lot of doubts about whether those refunds, if they got checked, would be accurate. Well, Richard, there's also this question of how this increase in tax refunds compares to the price spikes people are dealing with around energy, food, housing. What can you tell us? Yeah, in some ways what we're seeing is that the increases in gasoline prices and the tax refunds are kind of by order of magnitude roughly equivalent. So that you can think of it as the tax refunds getting sort of soaked up by that, or you can think of the tax refunds providing a cushion for the American consumer against these higher prices that we're seeing driven by gasoline and oil over the past couple of months.

22:55So we've definitely seen that happening. and what happens later down the line if the gasoline prices stay high or keep rising and there's not another round of tax refunds to happen. We are seeing some of this will get baked into withholding as one of the listeners said. So you'll see people's paychecks every couple of weeks will increase if you incorporate these breaks into withholding. If you don't incorporate them into your withholding, then you'll just get another big refund next year. So it's always tricky for people that a lot of people judge what their taxes are based on the refund, but that's only the sort of net amount at the end, the true up that gets you from what you paid over the course of the year, the difference between that and what you actually owe.

23:46The real way to look at it is to look at your tax return and the total tax that you're paying and your total income and try and gauge it that way. That echoes this message we got from Garrett in Rhode Island. I just got my federal return back. My salary is in the mid -$50 ,000 as a mailman. The cost of living in Rhode Island has increased a lot. I got back about$2 ,800 from the IRS and$600 from my state. The only reason I got a federal return at all was because I withheld$100 more per paycheck. Things are tight, but I would rather get overtaxed on the front end than be surprised come April. I'm curious who is benefiting most from the tax cuts that were included in this tax and spending bill.

24:30Vanessa, by your assessment, who's coming out on top? Oh, yeah, we've talked a lot about the small components that affect some amount of the regular working people. But the vast majority of the benefit of this bill went to very, very wealthy people. There are just huge new breaks, huge new changes in how income gets counted that will be an enormous boon. And by very, very wealthy, assign some dollar amounts to that because that can mean a range of things. Yeah. No, I mean really indeed very wealthy. I mean people who have millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions and billions of dollars, they will have seen very, very large benefits this year.

25:17And often if you try to talk about them in terms of their taxable income, it's very low because the thing that they're getting is the ability to make money without it counting as taxable income in the first place. That's sort of the trick of the progressive system. The rates go up as you have more taxable income, but the people who have wages and salaries, that's taxable income. But people who are making money from their money, there are a lot of ways of making that non-taxable income. Richard, I wanted to get your thoughts as well. Yeah, I think we can separate this into two buckets. All the new things that we're talking about, the tips and overtime and expanded deduction for state and local taxes, were all things that were new.

25:57But the biggest component of the tax law that Republicans passed last year was extending the prior tax law that they passed in 2017. So there was so much that was scheduled to expire at the end of 2025 if Congress did nothing. A deduction for closely held pass-through businesses, which is a lot of both small and large businesses. Lower tax rates, higher standard deductions, higher child credits, higher estate tax thresholds. A bunch of things that help people lean sort of more upper to upper middle income, though they help people across the income spectrum. And so those things, you don't sort of feel some of those changes because it's essentially continuing what was in place from 2018 through 2025.

Read the full transcript

26:42But Republicans made a very clear choice that it was really important to them to extend those things. And so they used the fiscal space they had to do that$3 trillion or so. And then they added these new things on top of it that are the attention-getting things that people are really seeing this year because they are so different from what we've had in the past. Well, as we've been discussing, it's always tricky to file your taxes, especially if they're complicated. And we got this text from a member of our tax club. I use TurboTax every year, and it gets more and more expensive to use. Why? Shouldn't the tech make it cheaper?

27:17I paid over$200 to file federal and state returns so that I could get a$100 refund from my state and pay$800 to the IRS. Now, Nina, as a reminder, the IRS direct file program is gone. The Trump administration canceled it at the end of 2025. And this was the agency's effort to build a free tax filing software that people could use instead of paid products like TurboTax. And there's been a decades-long demand for this type of filing service. It was finally launched in 2024 in a pilot program using money from the Inflation Reduction Act. What happened? Well, you know, I think that there's a very large lobby of commercials tax software out there.

28:00And this has been an issue since 2001, when the Bush administration actually wanted to create something equivalent direct file and have it on the WhiteHouse.gov site so people could file directly with the government for free. And the IRS at that point said, we don't have the bandwidth to create this. And that created Free File, which was an alliance of software, tax software companies that offered products for free. We're in the process of testing those products right now with some scenarios. And we are getting vastly different results for the same scenario between products. And we are also looking at the privacy statements that are buried, you know, where you may be, without knowing it, giving permission to these companies to use or disclose your information for other purposes.

28:52And some of these privacy statements are 21 pages long. This is not what you should be needing to deal with when you're filing your taxes with the IRS. I believe it's a fundamental taxpayer right that taxpayers be able to file their taxes with their government for free. So for people who are looking for a lower cost or free option, what's available to them right now? Well, there is the free file alliance, and some of those products are free depending on your circumstance and your income. Two of them, several of the software companies also have their own quote-unquote free products. You can go to VITA or Tax Counseling of the Elderly, which also has income guidelines but are volunteers preparing returns.

29:41Well, we're still hearing from you. Daniel emails, regardless of how you feel about our tax system, it is mind-boggling to me that people wouldn't want a well-funded and well-staffed agency. If you have a problem that needs to be resolved with the IRS or some sort of dispute. Don't you want them to have the resources to respond efficiently to you? And Mayor emails, as a two-decade user of tax preparation software, this is the first year that the software has failed. We have two taxpayers in our household, one of us filed using this software, only to receive a letter from the state that the calculations were off by$1.

30:13No one likes to get an error letter from the tax department. Better oversight of the software firms might be in order, or better yet, returning to the idea of a flat tax may solve multiple issues. When we come back, the link between taxes and democracy. Stick with us.

30:31This message comes from NPR sponsor, the Capital One VentureX Business Card. Every business owner needs a serious business travel card that can keep up with their needs. With the Capital One VentureX Business Card, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, no matter where your business may take you. Plus, big purchasing power means you can spend more and earn more. The Capital One Venture X business card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for details. Let's get back to our discussion about tax filing season in the state of the IRS. One of you texted, I lived in Venezuela in 1990 before Hugo Chavez.

31:11My Venezuelan friends used to tell me, quote, only suckers pay taxes. I would reply that in the U.S., our national ethic is that everyone pays their fair share. Given the loopholes the wealthy are able to take advantage of, I fear that that's no longer the case. Thanks for that message. But as I said, we've sort of hinted at the enforcement side of the IRS, both in terms of personnel and funding, has been cut by the Republican Majority Congress and the Trump administration. Very briefly, what's driving the current disinvestment in tax enforcement? Well, the fundamental sort of challenge, I think, and this is a real misunderstanding that people have about American history because there's always been this talk in recent decades about taxation is tyranny.

31:52But the reality is that the tax system is essential to representative systems. Tyrants aren't good at raising taxes. Elected officials are good at it. Tyrants hate taxes. They like the spoils of war or fees and fines, things like that. So one of the things that you would expect to see as a political scientist is that when democracy is in decline, when systems of representation are breaking down, you will also see attacks on the tax system, right? And that's true internationally, but it's also true in our own history. If you look at anti-democratic movements, for example, the slaveholders who wanted the three-fifths clause or the Jim Crow governments, one of the things that they did alongside distorting election outcomes was to disable the capacity of the state to tax, right?

32:33They made it harder to raise taxes. And that way, it was like a two-pronged strategy. You try and distort the election so that you always win. And then if you lose, the government is too poor and too weak to tax you as one of the sort of wealthy oligarchs. And so I think that you're seeing sort of a similar dynamic now that as American democracy has eroded, you're seeing renewed attacks on the tax system. We also got this email from Jay who says, what was the return on investment of the enforcement side of the IRS? how much will cuts there cost taxpayers? Richard, what can you tell us? Yeah, so there's differing estimates of exactly what that return on investment is, but generally, basically everybody agrees that if you increase enforcement spending and enforcement personnel, they more than pay for themselves from the government bottom line perspective.

33:21So if you look at this administration's fiscal 2027 budget, they're proposing a 12, 13 % cut in enforcement spending. And there's a line in that budget that says reductions in enforcement spending will create missed opportunities and lost revenue for the United States. So they're very clear on it. The CBO has said it's like a three to one ratio. There are other estimates that kind of say if you really focus on top end, it's 10 to one or 12 to one. So it varies, but every former IRS commissioners, this current administration, outside experts are all sort of agree on the direction, which is that more enforcement more than pays for itself.

34:00That doesn't mean that like more enforcement is always good. It just necessarily in that return on investment for the government as a whole, it's positive. Well, and Nina, when we talk about tax audits, oftentimes, if you think about it through the pop culture lens, it's at this big corporation and you have IRS agents, you know, storming in as people are trying to shred documents. but who will get audited? Who's most likely to be audited if we're seeing this cutback in funding and personnel for tax enforcement? Yeah, but before I answer that question, let me just talk about the return on investment.

34:38No one has ever figured out how to measure the return on investment on customer service. And in fact, IRS enforcement revenue only accounts for, direct enforcement revenue only accounts for about two to three percent of the over trillion dollars that the IRS brings in every year. So it's something else that's operating here. And I think it's your caller who said, you know, we view ourselves as law abiding and we want to comply with the laws. And that's a major part of the positive compliance rate that the IRS has, which can be eroded when people view the system as corrupt or, you know, skewed against them, Which brings us to the audits, who gets audited.

35:16You know, when the IRS doesn't have money, the most expensive people to pay on the payroll are the highly skilled auditors who are doing the kinds of audits that Vanessa was talking about earlier, the most wealthy, the large corporations, etc. So when you don't have those funds, you turn to the lowest hanging fruit and doing correspondence audits where you do get a letter from the IRS saying, we think you owe money. and if you don't respond within a certain amount of time, we're going to assess this. And this can be largely automated. There's no one employee assigned to that case. So if you call to talk to the IRS, you'll get a different person each time.

35:54You know, this is a very frustrating experience. And this is what about 75 to 80 percent of individual audits are like this. And it's increasing every single year. Well, we're hearing from people who work in the tax system. but on the other side from the IRS, Susan emailed. Susan's a CPA, and they say, I'm curious at what the GOP has done to IRS functionality. Gutting the IRS means that only the honest taxpayer and W-2 worker pay what they owe. The rest pay what they want. I've been a tax preparer for 40 years. Our local IRS office is a shell of what it was. I haven't had a taxpayer audited in over 20 years.

36:34I compete against local preparers who write off anything and everything. They play audit lottery, and their odds are pretty good these days. Our voluntary compliance tax system needs a strong IRS. Richard, I'd love to hear your response to that as you've been reporting on the IRS and tax policy across many years. Yeah, a couple things. One is that the CBA refers to the idea of other preparers out there. And so one thing that, again, IRS officials, there's actually a bipartisan bill in Congress now, and IRS officials in the past have called for regulation of tax preparers. There's not – we can argue about whether regulations are good, but there is no – you can hang out a shingle and be Jen the tax preparer and there's no IRS.

37:14No one wants that. No one wants that. But there's a lot of – particularly like low-income fraud is driven by unscrupulous tax preparers. And I don't need to deal with this all the time. And I can hear her voice talking about this from when she was the taxpayer advocate and the concerns about this. So that's part of it. And I think what the CPA also says about W-2 workers, we talked about this before. Like the IRS compliance, involuntary compliance is highest when people know that the IRS has information about them. So W-2 workers don't have a lot of sort of flexibility. You have W-2s, you have child, you have standard reduction.

37:50Things are pretty straightforward. There's not ways to fudge it. It's, you know, it's business owners. It's not to blame business owners, but there's just more, less visibility for the IRS. And business owners and tax preparers know that. And so whether by mistake or by intention, business owners and other places where there's less visibility from the IRS, that's where compliance is lower. The IRS tax gap studies have shown this repeatedly and constantly over time. Nina, I'd love to hear your perspective as well. not just about unscrupulous tax preparers, but also about the role that these local IRS offices can play in helping people get the support and the questions they need answered?

38:36Yeah, I think, well, first we had just, we've just issued a report of our mystery shopping visits during the 2025 filing season, where we partnered with six organizations in six different states and visited preparers that were in the community, not part of a chain, but just independent preparers. And of the returns that we got as a result of the testing visits, only two of them were correct. And the variety of refunds and the range of fees was just extraordinary what it went up to. I think that that goes to the presence of the IRS in communities, that they need to be the eyes and ears of what's actually going on on the ground.

39:19And I also think this goes to the attitude toward the IRS. If people see that an IRS employee is also a member of their PTA or a member of their religious group or they, you know, they play on the soccer team that they're on and they're a basic, decent human being, you know, it does have some impact on how you view the organization itself. So I think you lose both intelligence on the ground, and that works both in understanding the conditions on the ground, the economic conditions, the hurricane conditions and what impact that might have in people's ability to pay, as well as what kind of fraud or schemes are going on out there and who are actually ripping off taxpayers.

40:05Well, it also sounds, Nina, and I'm just sort of reading between the lines of what you just said, that people who are least able to afford a large surprise tax bill due to a fraudulent preparation are perhaps the people most vulnerable for this type of scam. Yes, and that's exactly right. And that's the very great sadness of the demise of direct file, because it was designed precisely for that population so they could file their returns on their phones and not have to go to someone else. We got this email from one of you. America's working class is generally opposed to IRS funding. It's worth pointing out that an underfunded IRS is less likely to have success in forcing collections from very wealthy people who have legal teams than from most Americans.

40:57Vanessa, I'd love to hear your thoughts about that, considering the research you've done on the history of the IRS and its relationship with the American public. Yeah, there's a sort of myth that Americans sort of hate taxes, and I think a lot of our politics is distorted by that understanding. But even if you go back to the very beginning, you know, the Boston Tea Party, everyone knows the story of Boston artisans and mechanics and they go on the boats and the harbor and they throw the tea in the harbor. But if you ask the average person what was that about, they think it was about a protest against Thai taxes.

41:29It wasn't. It was a protest against a corporate tax cut. So if you – because the British East India Company was getting a special deal from parliament, part of a bailout. And, you know, it was a company deemed too big to fail in modern language. And the small artisans of Boston thought that was unfair to give this – that the government would be in bed with this one big corporation and giving them this special break. So if you look at our history, it's actually – there's this history of wanting the well-connected, the well-off corporate powers to pay their share, right? And that history has really been misinterpreted over the years.

42:04So if you're thinking about today, if what you want is for everyone to be paying their fair share, and Americans want that at extraordinarily high rates, right? The top concerns Americans have about the tax system are that the wealthy and corporations aren't paying their share. If you want that to happen, you need to have a well-funded IRS. And as the other panelists have mentioned, you need to be able to bring people into government that can go toe-to-toe with these fancy lawyers and accountants that very wealthy people can pay. Well, I want to turn to the agency's future. CEO Frank Bisognano promised modernization of the agency's technology infrastructure when he came into this new role last year.

42:41Richard, what is he pushing to do? I mean, I think he's pushing to sort of rethink the way the IRS has gone after technology and take a more modern approach. And there have been, obviously, advances in technology that they can lean on that weren't available a few years ago. So on the enforcement side, the biggest thing is AI. And they've talked a lot about using AI to decide where to direct those audit resources to kind of look at the information they have on the face of the return from publicly available databases and say, okay, well, if we have fewer people to go do the human accounting and legal work to make sure that we're picking the right target.

43:16Because the outcome that they're trying to avoid is a situation where the IRS spends lots of person hours and the taxpayer spends lots of person hours and time and expense dealing with an audit. And the result is, yeah, everything was actually fine. Like, that's, they're trying to, you know, use AI to avoid that situation. And so, we'll see how well that goes. But that's the general enforcement direction. And then on the service side, they're trying to provide, what we talked about before, is to give, sort of unite some of these systems that have been in the IRS that don't really talk well to each other.

43:48As they're discussing integrating more use of AI, are there also conversations about privacy concerns related to the use of that technology? Yeah, and that's part of it. I think they're aiming to not have that AI sort of be out in the wild. I think, you know, and that's certainly a concern about exactly how they use it and what information goes in there and what taxpayers' rights are in being able to challenge assertions that are made by the IRS. And when you say out in the wild, you mean AI that's controlled by a private company? Or AI that sort of got full access out in the internet and isn't in the IRS's enclosed systems.

44:28The IRS has had, obviously, taxpayer privacy breaches notably, but tries to keep information within its walls. And so one of the concerns is that if you have AI that's sort of operating on both sides of that privacy wall, that there can be problems. Well, I want to wrap on this email we got from Rudy. He says, I file a paper return. I am 84 and using paper is my comfort zone. I request the forms I need online using the IRS website. The forms come in dribs and drabs over the next two months, and some never come. Getting the paper I need is my main source of anxiety. As we're talking about potential changes in the use of technology at the IRS, staffing issues, the longer-term disinvestment in the agency, very briefly from each of you, who are you concerned might fall through the cracks as we're trying to figure out the best way to manage our tax system.

45:23Briefly, Vanessa? Yeah, I mean, people like that caller are exactly who I worry about. You know, older people, people who are poorer, people who don't have access to great financial advice, those are the folks who are usually relying on the IRS doing its job really well. And, you know, the kind of people who could be using direct file, and now that they can't, that to me is the most obvious loss this year. Nina, your thoughts? Well, in addition to the people Vanessa has identified, I also worry about small and micro business and gig economy workers. You know, they're entering, they're in a period where they have, you know, deductions and things.

46:02And they can also be preyed upon by others saying, have I got a deal for you and then get into trouble and they can't afford representation. Richard, I'll give you the last word here. Yeah, it's people who need that sort of human contact, right? Whether you're dealing with the enforcement side or the service side, things do run really smoothly. refunds come out fast, forms can be filed online, notices can, you know, the IRS has online accounts. But if and when you need that person on the phone, person in the IRS office, person across the table in auditor collections action, it's people who sort of need that that may have problems as the IRS becomes smaller in headcount than it has been.

46:38Well, we'll leave the conversation there for now and we'll check back in on the IRS very soon. That's Richard Rubin. He's a U.S. tax policy reporter for The Wall Street Journal. Also with us, Vanessa Williamson, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. She's also author of The Price of Democracy, The Revolutionary Power of Taxation in American History, and Nina Olson, Executive Director of the Center for Taxpayer Rights. Thanks to you all. Today's producer was Michael Falero. This program comes to you from WAMU, part of American University in Washington, distributed by NPR. I'm Jen White.

47:11Thanks for listening, and we'll talk again tomorrow. This is 1A.

From the publisher
It’s that time of the year again. Have you finished filing your return?

Doing taxes this season has been particularly fraught – for both taxpayers and the Internal Revenue Service. It’s been a year since DOGE slashed federal funding and cut droves of federal employees. Those departures hit the IRS hard. Its leadership has largely turned over.

Also, Republicans in Congress took back billions of dollars the agency had received to improve its systems. Then, they gave the IRS even more tax code changes to enforce.

Can the IRS handle it all? And what do taxes – and a functional tax agency – have to do with the strength of U.S. democracy? We sit down with a panel of experts to find out.

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