'If You Can Keep It': The Future Of The Free Press

0:07Well, we see it over, over, and again. the big news stories that mean the most to the state of our democracy don't always play out in Washington. Instead, they unfold in neighborhoods, on street corners, around the country, in real time. In many cases, the first images don't come from national news outlets, but rather the people who are there, cell phones in hand, including local journalists out in their communities. Journalists are trained to confirm and contextualize. But what does that look like in today's shifting media landscape? Local reporters on the ground are crucial, but nearly 40 percent of local newspapers in the United States have disappeared since the early 2000s.

0:47Even some of the biggest newspapers providing national coverage out of major cities are also on shaky ground. The latest example, massive layoffs expected at the Washington Post in the coming weeks. So what does it all mean for how news gets made and especially who gets heard? What's at stake for our democracy and who's trying to chart a new path forward? I'm Jen White. And I'm Todd Zwilich. You're listening to the 1A Podcast, the latest in our weekly series, if you can keep it, after this.

1:20Let's begin with Eric Wemple. He's media correspondent for The New York Times. He previously covered the news business for The Washington Post. Hi, Eric. Hello. How's it going? Doing well. Now, Eric, as we said, Washington Post staffers are bracing for significant layoffs. It seems the metro and sports sections are especially vulnerable. But what more do we know about where the Post is headed? Well, we don't know too much about where the Post is headed, at least vis-a-vis these layoffs. I mean, the Washington Post is, as you know, a tremendous investigative and reportorial organization. And they have had hundreds of people on this particular story within their own walls over the past three months, really.

2:01And very little news has – they've been able to – the reporters and editors, I'm saying, have been able to get very little news about their own workplace. It's being very tightly held, the details of whatever initiative is coming forward. We at The Times wrote last week a story about what we know. And I must say it was relatively circumscribed. I mean, we do know that the sports, the Metro and the International Desk are being told that they're going to be absorbing some pretty heavy cutbacks. But we'll see how it plays out. I don't want to make any predictions here. But they do seem to be going at those areas pretty heavily to the point that some editors have told just about everybody in their section that you've got to be prepared for everything, including possibly losing your job.

2:51Eric, what's the why? Is it just money, just dollars and cents? I mean, the Washington Post is famously now owned by Jeff Bezos. Most people don't think he bought it in the first place to make a profit, really. He bought it for other reasons, editorial platform and the like. At least that's the conversation that I've heard. Is this just a financial issue? Why is such a great question, always. Anyways, that's also one of the things that's difficult to sort of suss out here. But what I will say is there's talk in the corridors that the Washington Post needs to be self-sustaining, needs to stand on its own.

3:30And that has been a source of debate within the Post for a while and, of course, outside of the Post as well. Because it was bought in 2013 by Jeff Bezos, the Amazon founder. Jeff Bezos, obviously a person of tremendous needs, means, excuse me, and could support the paper and subsidize any losses for a really long time. At the same time, if you read Marty Baron's book, Collision of Power, he's the former decorated executive editor of The Post. His argument was The Post needs to be self-sustaining in case Bezos decides to bail on the paper and leave it with someone else. It needs to stand on its own instead of being subsidized.

4:12So the why is difficult to determine, but I think that they're going back to that rationale. And it is worth noting that the past few years have been sort of inimical to the Washington Post in terms of its business model. It has really struggled, lost hundreds of millions of dollars over the past several years because of, you know, digital advertising hasn't been roaring. And the other problem is that after the first Trump presidency, I think readership has really been tough to conjure up at the Post. Well, we should note that billionaires now own key newspapers, not just the Washington Post, but also the Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

4:55More than half of U.S. daily newspapers are owned by just a few major parent companies. So, Eric, place what's happening at the Post within the wider context of this shifting and consolidating media landscape. Yeah, well, I mean, it is consolidating. I mean, like the newspaper business is, I mean, like Gatehouse Gannett, they combine, they have hundreds of newspapers. There is Alden Media, which is, excuse me, Alden Global Capital, which runs, you know, Media News Group, which also has a great amount. I don't know the number right off the top of my head, but has a tremendous amount of newspapers.

5:35They feel that it's easier to consolidate because they can keep their costs low because they basically centralize a lot of the operations of the newspapers, meaning printing and design and so on and so forth. So the more newspapers they get, the more profitable they feel they can be. So that's one of the things that's happening in the newspaper world. At the same time, there's a glimmer of hope that comes from the web, basically. Digital-only operations that also rely on philanthropy as well as advertising revenues and subscription revenues are starting to roar in this business. They're starting to come up.

6:15And I do believe that one of the goals of people in this industry is to reorient the public's, the way the public views newspapers. For the longest time, newspapers have been owned by fat cats, or for a great deal of time, newspapers have been owned by fat cats who make a lot of money off newspapers. Well, that's not true anymore, to a great extent. And I think that one of the goals of newspaper executives all over is to reorient people's views so that they think of the newspaper as sort of like public media, like something that is worthy of their philanthropic dollars, worthy of their donations.

6:53So that's something that is happening and is one of the bright spots in this industry. And I think we'd be remiss if we didn't point it out. Well, Eric, I mean, you spent a lot of your career inside the Washington Post newsroom. You're at the New York Times now, as we mentioned. Post has seen an exodus of long-term journalists in the past year, a lot of big names. Even so, those journalists from The Post are still putting out very impressive and important coverage. Just one example in August, Douglas McMillan and Kirkpatrick, Lydia Sittum published an exclusive in-depth report revealing ICE's plans to double its detention space to more than 107 ,000 beds.

7:31And that story reverberates even today as we see ICE pursuing literal physical warehouses next to train tracks in communities around America to house migrants. I mean, a lot of that reporting originated at the Post. So what is this kind of prolonged workplace uncertainty, this turmoil at a place like the Post due to reporters and the work they're trying to produce every day? Well, I'm delighted that you bring up the example and the point you make is 100 % true. The Post has really, really excelled through this past year, even as there's been a lot of turmoil in the newsroom. They've done scoop after scoop after scoop.

8:12It's because they work hard and also because the Post over the years, through its investment in local and national news, has, I think, developed something of a sort of a muscle memory between the Washington Post and the federal government that there's sort of a connection that they have. And people in the federal government view The Post as their hometown newspaper. I think they feel comfortable sending tips in the way of The Post. And so that has been something that The Post continues to thrive on and to their credit. I mean, we could be here for the rest of this program talking about the scoops that The Post has had over the past year.

8:53But to the second half of your question, how does it affect journalists? I think over the long term, they just get worn down by some of the dysfunction. And there's been plenty of that since, oh, the past two years in particular. Will Lewis started there in 2024. And there have been a series of events that have really sort of rocked the place. So I think there's a long-term fatigue that sets in. I think some of the journalists start looking for other opportunities or taking a buyout if it's being offered. but I don't think critically that it affects their day-to-day work. I think when there's a story and they get a tip, journalists just, they move, they go.

9:35They work hard and they get the story out. They have a lot of energy so they can gossip about problems in their workplace and produce scoops day in, day out. So I think that would be my answer to that question. It's a good one. Lauren Marks emailed us, I'm listening to your show right now, and the Baltimore Banner deserves a shout-out. Our previous city newspaper was not doing true investigative journalism, but the work the Banner is doing is incredible. They have so many sections, and the stories are interesting. Real people are writing them, and I feel grateful our city has such a good and reliable news source.

10:10Their work increases curiosity, and what could be better? And Janelle, in Ohio emails, I've been getting the majority of my news from independent journalists, YouTube news creators, and personal videos from witnesses. However, I still keep an eye on legacy media from both sides of the aisle so that I can be fully informed on what's being promoted. I call it opposition research. Coming up, according to Pew, just over half of TikTok users say they regularly get news on the platform, and younger adults are especially likely to do so. What does the news look like in that space? That's just ahead.

10:46Let's get back into the conversation with this from WAMU's Northern Virginia reporter, Margaret Barthel. I spoke to her recently about her work ahead of her stepping away from her role at the station. We are speaking shortly after the anniversary of the mid-air crash at National Airport last year that killed 67 people. And, you know, I have covered many moments of community grief. And I remember, you know, I covered a vigil on the Alexandria waterfront a few days after the crash. This is not, you know, a tremendous feat of reporting to show up and just, you know, have my recorder rolling and ask people why they came and, you know, how they're feeling in that moment.

11:34But I think that that is sort of the heart of local news, right, is just showing up. You know, you just go. You go and you sit with the emotions that your community is feeling in that moment. And you reflect that and you put that on the radio and, you know, sort of give that back to the world. And I, you know, I would like to think that it's one little thing that maybe helps our, you know, our region process those moments. That was WAMU reporter Margaret Bartell. And what Margaret has to say about local coverage just showing up reminds me of the kind of coverage we've been seeing over the last couple of weeks from papers like the Minnesota Star Tribune in Minneapolis providing just unmatched coverage from the community on the streets, the people affected by ICE and immigration crackdown on their own streets.

12:28Also, Minnesota Public Radio, we've had reporters on who have also been on the ground covering what's happening as well. And who, as a national show, we have relied on so very much. I mean, the proof is right there. It reminds me of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette set to close this coming spring after 240 years of production, you know, 2019 Pulitzer Prize for their community coverage of the Tree of Life massacre that just would not have been the same from a national outlet. But Eric Wemple, local news is on the bleed. In 2005, just over 150 counties lacked a source of local news. According to Northwestern University, today it's more than 200.

13:09As you zoom out, what does this loss of local reporting mean to how stories with local and national implications, like immigration, like Tree of Life in Pittsburgh, like the D.C. plane crash that Margaret Barthel just talked about, how those get covered? Well, I think it's almost impossible to tell. It's the great void that we don't know, which is the scariest part of it all. You know, we see what is there, and what is there oftentimes is remarkable. The point you make about the tree of life is echoed across the country whenever there is a crisis in any city in America. Whether it's a natural disaster or whether it's protests or something else, you see every time, if you read like Brian Stelter's CNN newsletter, you'll see inevitably, hey, this local, or the Honolulu, for example, the tragedies that happened there several years ago or two years ago.

14:08Every time, it's always like local newspapers are coming alive. They're putting all their resources, they're throwing their entire newsroom on the flood or whatever it is. And it's amazing. It happens every single time. So we see what we do, what's there, but we don't see what's not there. So municipal corruption could be going unchecked. Political campaigns could be going uncovered. We just don't know. And that's, as I say, the scary part about it. And I think it's inevitable that it's been happening because of what you call the bleed. There have been tens of thousands of journalism jobs that have been lost.

14:48There's no way that our society has not suffered from this. And it's probably the case that the tanking trust that Americans have in the media is in some way a function of this fraying of the local journalism model. Because local journalism is the first step in trust. You know, if there's a fire on the corner and you saw it walking home the previous day and you see it written up in the newspaper, there's an immediate bond of trust that's created. And when there's less and less of that, you know, that first step in the trust chain just doesn't quite happen. And I think there's an unraveling happening.

15:30So that would be my answer there. So we've been talking about the importance of local news, but we should also note that over the past few weeks, we've seen a series of extraordinary moments involving the press and the federal government. That includes the arrests late last week of independent journalists Georgia Ford and Don Lemon, along with two others. And a federal judge blocked the government from reviewing devices it seized from a Washington Post reporter's home. So, Eric, what do these cases say to you about the relationship between the press and the federal government right now? I think there is, I hate to be sort of like dramatic about it, but I think that there is every reason to sort of be alert about this and be very worried about the trends.

16:16I mean, this is the first time we're talking about, let's talk first about the search and seizure of devices at the home of a Washington Post journalist. That was on January 14th. As the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press noted, this was the first time that a reporter's home residence has been searched as part of a National League investigation. And that is a really, really, really big deal. Because if you want to report on national security and you want to report on what one of my sources called the most important government function, which is national security and intelligence and so on and so forth, you need sources.

16:57And if the government's going to go around searching reporters' homes, well, it's going to be tougher to get those sources. and people are not going to want to do the job. So, I mean, like, this is an enormous, this is sort of a, this is a watershed. The thing that happened with Lemon and Fort is also very troubling from a media law perspective because these people were doing their jobs. Obviously, there was some degree of complication in the sense that it happened in a church. But journalism is, you know, protected under the United States Constitution. There is freedom of the press, and that was an example of the exercise of that freedom.

17:39And so that is, as you said, the judge, I think you were mentioning, yeah, twice I believe in the Lemon situation, judges had turned down an attempt to charge, arrest, indict Don Lemon. I guess the third time they made it work somehow. But yes, it's extremely troubling if you're anywhere near the journalism world. And I think it's extremely troubling for the citizenry as well. And Eric, there's a progression here. It strikes me. We're talking about the business of news and it's important. There's also a progression in terms of the authoritarian crackdown on the news business. We've gone from fake news, the refrain fake news, which just means like don't believe negative stuff about me or us, to enemy of the people, go ahead and intimidate them, to the government intervening, arresting journalists and raiding their homes.

18:32There's a clear escalation and a clear progression there. I think that's unmistakable. I think it's unmistakable that there's an escalation. That is quite laid out in the facts and what has been happening. And obviously, there are remedies for journalists. For instance, let me just take, for example, my own employer. It sued the Pentagon over the set of restrictions that the Pentagon imposed on journalists in October, setting up a bunch of grounds on which they could have their press passes revoked. One of those being that in certain circumstances, if reporters receive or publish classified and certain unclassified information, they could lose their press pass pending determination by the Pentagon.

19:23Well, most news outlets that were in the Pentagon denounced that as a transgression of the First Amendment in the time sued. So there are recourses at this point, but we should not have to be taking these steps to protect our rights. For the longest time, they were pretty well protected and pretty well observed. That is changing. Eric, before we let you go, I would just love to hear your perspective about what's at stake for democracy, especially when we look at the erosion of local news. A Pew Research study found a really strong link between access to local news and civic engagement. People who tended to be more civically engaged, they were also very interested in local news.

20:12So as we see that footprint, that local news footprint shrinking, what are your concerns about what it means for how well our democracy functions? I mean, the concerns, I don't know that they could be more pressing. I mean, just think about how the last time you entered the voting booth. Or think about a time, if you're as old as I am, that you entered the voting booth and you have, let's just say you're voting on, I don't know, 10, 15 races. And, you know, even very involved citizens may not have read widely about each particular campaign. But when you have a really lively news ecosystem, you're likely to hear something about this candidate, something about that candidate, something about this other candidate.

21:00So when you go into that voting booth, you have some clue about what you're doing. I fear that increasingly even motivated citizens when they go to the voting booth will have no clue what's going on. I think that is the case. That's why Medill, who you cited earlier, is so careful about documenting these news deserts. Because the news deserts are where people would have to struggle and sort of like clamor to find any sort of news about what's going on in their local municipality, let alone find news that holds people to account. So if you figure that awareness and accountability are measures of democracy or elements of a democratic society, then yeah, it's a pretty big deal, I have to say.

21:44Well, that's Eric Wimple. He's media correspondent for The New York Times. Eric, thanks for speaking with us. Thank you. And we're hearing from so many of you. Cyrbril from New Orleans emailed, we have a robust local news structure with our daily The Times-Picayune still pulling its weight, albeit being a smaller operation. We also have publications such as Where You At? and The Gambit, which report on local and state news. Finally, a favorite of mine is the longstanding beloved zine, Anti-Gravity. They also feature stories about local, statewide, and national issues and definitely keep it real.

22:19And then we got this from Joanne who emails, I'm a former Washington Post reporter and I share the angst about the current situation there, but I also spend summers in Maine where there are real signs of hope. The local newspapers there were collapsing like everywhere else, But four local newspapers were consolidated two years ago into a weekly paper called the Midcoast Villager that has been very successful. It combines an aggressive staff with engaging caricatures and artwork and a public cafe that draws in locals not just as customers, but as sources. Also, there's a new online news outlet called the Main Monitor that is producing scoop after scoop with a bare-bone staff and good art.

22:56It's surviving so far on donations from enthusiastic locals. Well, thanks for those messages. We have to take another quick break, but we'll have more from our guests and from you in just a moment.

23:11Well, this is a great moment to widen the conversation now from the pressures facing legacy newsrooms, as we were just discussing with Eric Wemple, to these types of experiments, like in Maine, trying to step up to challenges, reorganize, refinance. Another example, The 51st, that's a worker-led nonprofit local news source for Washington, D.C. that was launched after WAMU, which produces 1A, shut down its local news website, DCist. And we heard from a co-founder of The 51st, Maddie Poore. We came out of the ashes of the abrupt closure of DCist by WAMU in 2024. And we're part of the growing field of worker-led and cooperative newsrooms around the country.

23:52Our business model is one where we see our work as a public service and an important resource to the community. Publishing news you can use, like an explainer on who's responsible for clearing different parts of the sidewalk when snow hits. We take feedback and ideas from our readers really seriously and see it as we're co-creating an information system for our city. And we know people are willing to pay for it. 67 % of our revenue comes from subscribers, even though we don't have a paywall. And the rest comes from philanthropic dollars and local major donors who see and believe that this work is vital for our city.

24:28Maddie, thanks for that message. Now, WAMU does still publish local news on its site, wamu.org. Let's turn now to Karen Runlett in Miami, Florida. She's the executive director of the Institute for Nonprofit News. It's a national network that supports hundreds of nonprofit, nonpartisan newsrooms working to provide public service journalism. Karen, welcome to the program. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. And on the line from London is Rebecca Hudson, editor-in-chief of the News Movement. That's a news organization focused on reaching Gen Z audiences with original reporting. Becca, it's great to have you.

25:03Hi. Thank you for having me. Karen, from where you sit, what kinds of journalism are communities most at risk of losing right now? Well, at the local level, I just heard Eric speak quite a bit about investigative journalism. It takes time. It takes resources to do that. So accountability reporting, finding out what governments are doing, find out where the taxpayer dollars are going, school boards, how they're spending, that's very much at risk. But we've lost so many local reporters across the country, that we don't have general explainers so that people know who they're voting for and what those folks plan to do when they're going to the polls.

25:47And we're also losing a lot of information about the day-to-day activities of a community, whether that's arts coverage or whether that's just what's going on with the roads. We're losing, we've lost all of that as we've seen, you know, 3 ,200 newspapers closed across the country. Where are nonprofit and community-based outlets succeeding? And where are the gaps still really difficult to fill? So some of the greatest success stories have been at the national level, like a ProPublica. But I also heard you talking before about the Baltimore banner. I heard you talking about the main monitor. And I do have to really lift up our newsrooms in Minneapolis.

26:36We've got Sahan Journal, which is immigrant-led and which is working closely with community to really bring in videos and bring in tips and bring in lots of different points of view and witnesses and into the reporting and make sure that's a rich part of the story. Also, MinnPost, all of public media. They're all nonprofit newsrooms. They're all 501c3 organizations. These organizations rely heavily on donations, readers, listeners, viewers. They're powered by the public. So the good news is that donors have stepped up and they're starting to understand that if they want local news, they have to support it by reading it, by listening to it, by donating to it.

27:24We heard from a 1A regular, Gabe Fleischer. You've heard him on the show before. He's in his early 20s, and he reports on politics in his popular substack, Wake Up to Politics. It has about 60 ,000 followers. It's a completely subscription-based model. No advertising, no corporate backers. Something that is special about independent media is you don't necessarily need an enormous audience of millions of people for it to be supported. You can have a little bit more niche audiences. As long as there's enough people willing to pay as part of a subscription model, My readers really come from a whole mix of backgrounds, some people who work in politics, others who it's the only thing they read about politics in a day.