'If You Can Keep It': Trump Takes Aim At Academic Freedom

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0:25You're listening to the 1A Podcast. I'm Jen White. And I'm Todd Zwilling. The Trump administration has cut federal funding to colleges and universities it says don't align with conservative priorities. Now the White House says it will reward schools that follow in its ideological footsteps. The White House earlier this month sent a list of demands to nine schools that they must agree to in order to get preferred access to federal funds. They're calling it the Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education. Those demands include ending considerations of race and sex in admissions and hiring, capping international student enrollment, and limiting what faculty can say about certain issues.

1:06Six institutions, Brown University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of Southern California, the University of Pennsylvania, Dartmouth College, and the University of Virginia have rejected the proposal. The others have yet to comment or else say they are reviewing the demands. This is the latest chapter in the story of how the Trump administration is trying to exert influence over higher education. In March, the White House canceled$400 million in federal grants and contracts to Columbia University over allegations of anti-Semitism. Others have had money clawed back, too.

1:38On today's If You Can Keep It, our weekly series on the state of democracy, we're talking about higher education and what's at stake if academic freedom is compromised. That and more after this short break. Stay with us.

1:55Let's start by meeting our guests. In studio with us is Kate Hidalgo-Ballows. She's a staff reporter at the Chronicle of Higher Education. Kate, welcome to 1A. Thank you for having me, Jen. And with us from Tennessee is Robert Kelchin. He's a professor and the head of the Department of Educational Leadership and Policy Studies at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville. Robert, it's great to have you. Thanks for having me. Kate, let's start with this compact. Again, it was sent to nine different schools. What demands does it include? Sure. So the compact has a series of demands that include things that they've already stated, but also some new ones.

2:34So just to list a couple, they shouldn't consider race, sex, and other characteristics in admissions or hiring. They have to require the SAT and make data about the results and admission decisions available. Define sex and gender in accordance with the federal government's understanding of it as binary. Commit to institutional neutrality, which is the idea that college presidents should keep their opinions that they make public just to issues related to the universities themselves. Create a more hospitable environment for conservative viewpoints. Combat great inflation. Freeze tuition for American students for five years.

3:21not charge tuition at especially wealthy institutions for students in the hard sciences, and cap international student enrollment. And then what do schools that agree with this compact get in return? Preferential treatment in federal funding decisions. Robert, is there any precedent for this move? Have presidential administrations in the past made this type of offer to schools? No, there have been baseline conditions to get federal funding, which is basically just complying with civil rights laws. Going beyond this is not something the federal government has done. This is something state governments have done with public universities in some cases, but not out of Washington.

4:05Robert, why these schools in particular, the nine that we mentioned, what's so special about them in the administration's eyes? they're fairly high profile it's several ivy league institutions some wealthy universities and then a few public universities the university of texas being the most likely to potentially sign on they have not said no yet and then two other public universities in swing states university of virginia and the university of arizona and the goal here is to pressure institutions into signing on. And that's also why the administration opened up this compact to all of higher ed, although to this point, no one has signed on.

4:46We got this email from Jay who says, what is the justification or lack of justification for limiting legal foreign enrollment? And what will the impact be to U.S. education as a major export? Kate? Sure. So the Trump administration has made lots of arguments that international students pose threats to the university's cultures and that some support Hamas. So they've made those arguments on those grounds. But the way that it would affect universities would be tremendous because they're very important to universities' bottom lines, given that the financial aid they can receive is very restricted.

5:36but also important to the exchange of ideas in higher education. So many college presidents have expressed in their rejection letters how central they are to the communities that they've cultivated. Well, Robert, Jen mentioned a moment ago that six schools have rejected this compact proposal. The letters gave a deadline of today, October 20th, for schools to respond with feedback. How are other institutions responding? What are they saying about why they don't want to be a part of this or why they do? No one has publicly said that they do want to be in favor. The ones that have come out opposed to it have really focused on the idea of merit in grants.

6:24So really trying to tie into the administration's focus on merit. And if you're giving preferential treatment for other factors, you're not getting the best science. are not getting the best use of tax dollars. And that's the message that's resonated across the institutions that have said no to this point. Well, we reached out to all nine schools that were originally sent the compact by the White House. Almost all got back to us with a statement. Here's part of what we heard from the University of Pennsylvania. At Penn, we are committed to merit-based achievement and accountability. The longstanding partnership between American higher education and the federal government has greatly benefited society and our nation.

7:00Shared goals and investment in talent and ideas will turn possibility into progress, end quote. Reuters also spoke to students at the University of Pennsylvania about the compact, and here's what one of them had to say. I definitely think that Penn shouldn't accept this kind of offer. And I say this because considering the diversity here at Penn and just like the various ideas that are present, I think it would kind of be too polarizing. Well, Kate, there's the response from the administration, but what about the response from students and faculty at these institutions? What are they saying? Sure.

7:41So the main concern that I've heard from students and faculty that I've spoken to is that it threatens these universities' academic freedom and, like Robert said, doesn't seem to prioritize merit in grant decisions. And so there's a lot of concerns from students and faculty at the institutions, nine institutions that have been targeted, as well as other institutions that are concerned they'll be asked next, that they're not going to be able to study the things that they want to, speak out on opinions that they have, express their gender the way that they want to. So the demands put a lot of restrictions on colleges that people at those campuses are very concerned would take away from the environment.

8:35So let's talk about some of those restrictions. Just earlier this year, back in February, the White House froze$175 million in federal funding to Penn over allegations that the school violated Title IX by including transgender athletes in their women's sports programs. And to get the funding restored, Penn had to issue a statement that it would comply with Title IX and restore records and titles to women who competed against transgender women in sports there. So, Robert, what happened here? What does it say about how schools are negotiating with the White House? Well, I think this compact goes much farther than that settlement with Penn.

9:17The settlement with Penn under Title IX is something that at least has some level of precedent where they're going after a particular code that's related to civil rights. This is much broader, and that's why universities are very nervous when they saw that massive freeze of funding, which is something that prior administrations really have not done. Okay, Secretary of Education Linda McMahon met with university leaders to discuss the terms of this compact on Friday. What happened coming out of that meeting? Sure. So pretty soon after that meeting, we learned that a couple of additional universities were invited, Washington University in St.

10:03Louis, the University of Kansas, and Arizona State University, so notably another public research institution in Arizona. And then also soon after that, the universities of Virginia and then Dartmouth College rejected the compact. But Secretary McMahon has characterized that meeting as productive and that she was seeking feedback from the institutions that had not yet agreed to the compact. Coming up after a quick break, how much do colleges and universities rely on federal funding, and what happens when that funding is cut?

10:48Back now to our conversation about higher education and the Trump administration. It's part of our weekly series on democracy, If You Can Keep It. Now, in April, the Trump administration froze$2.2 billion in grants to Harvard University after claiming the school was in violation of federal civil rights law. At a hearing in June, Secretary of Education Linda McMahon answered questions about the education department's demand that Harvard end its diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. Here's her exchange with Democratic Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy on how they justified cutting that funding.

11:22Harvard only has 3 % by its own numbers, 3 % conservative faculty. Do you think they are allowing enough of viewpoint diversity through that teaching? Where in the statute does it give you the ability to cut off federal funding for a university based upon your decision, your determination that they don't have viewpoint diversity? Can you cite to a statute an authority that Congress has given you to micromanage the viewpoint diversity of a college? The statute is Title VI. These were civil rights violations. That is why we filed a case and defunded or stopped the funding for Waffle Harvard as well as we did Columbia.

11:56Now, McMahon refers there to Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. It specifically bars discrimination on the basis of race, skin color, or national origin. And that's the statute the Trump administration is using to try to force Harvard and other schools to hire more conservatives. Kate, was this an effective argument by the Trump administration? Well, so we have this legal case that's playing out involving Harvard. And in September, a district court judge in Boston said the federal government had broken the law when it froze billions of dollars in grants and contracts to Harvard over its alleged failure to combat anti-Semitism, which is protected by—anti -Semitism is protected by Title VI.

12:41Harvard has argued that the Trump administration has disregarded the university's First Amendment and due process rights in restricting those federal funds. So, so far it hasn't been successful, but Harvard has promised, or sorry, Trump administration has promised to appeal. But it was definitely a win for Harvard when this happened in September. Robert, briefly, just break down for us how schools get their funding. How much of an institution's budget comes from the federal government? Overall, about a quarter of American higher education budgets come from the federal government. For major research universities like Harvard, it is a higher percentage.

13:20Harvard is closer to, say, 30 or 40 percent. But for most of American higher education, the money is coming primarily for financial aid for students. But for big research universities, it's driven by grants and contracts instead. Harvard's federal financial aid portfolio is pretty small, but they have a lot of research. We got this email from Liz who says, I'm a retired professor at a community college in Massachusetts. I still work part-time teaching. Our president of the college is very clear about the amount of money we have already lost with cutbacks to federal funding to programs. And so far, we have lost$2 million in grants and supports.

14:01All higher education, colleges, community colleges, and universities have now been asked to sign the compact. We have already been forced to eliminate or change programs that support specific groups. In my personal view, these changes are to the detriment of students' learning. So, Kate, in that clip that we played of Linda McMahon in front of the Senate committee, she referenced Title VI as justification for slashing Harvard's funding. Now, Jen mentioned and you mentioned that's Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. It bars specifically race discrimination, sex, skin color, national origin discrimination.

14:35But the senator's question still stands. Does anything in Title VI say that universities have to have viewpoint diversity, has to have a certain percentage of these viewpoints, otherwise you don't qualify for federal funding? No, that's not part of it. It just says that race, color, and national origin, which can include anti-Semitism as well as anti-Arab bias and bias against religion through the lens of race, that's all that it says in that statute. Let's go to Jay's email who says, what are we calling antisemitism and what is the administration defining as antisemitism? When I was a college student, antisemitism met stereotypes of Jewish people liable against them and denying the Holocaust.

15:22Now it seems that anyone arguing for Palestinian human rights are conflated with Hamas and labeled antisemitic. Robert, is the Trump administration providing a clear definition of antisemitism as they're making these complaints against higher ed institutions? They're using a fairly broad definition, and the courts are trying to figure out exactly what counts and what doesn't. And, Caden, you're reporting, what are you finding about how universities are responding specifically to that claim of anti-Semitism on their campuses? Well, they have launched a lot of support for Jewish students. Some universities have adopted what's called the IRA definition of anti-Semitism, International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, I believe, which says that some criticism of Israel can be considered anti-Semitic.

16:13So we've seen lots of changes. Also, investments in security, commitments to and partnerships with Hillel chapters. So universities have done a lot to try to increase support for Jewish students. and there are some concerns during all of this that that will chill free speech. Well, Harvard isn't the only school targeted by the Trump administration here. In March, the White House also cut$400 million in funding to Columbia University in New York over the pro-Palestinian campus protests that year. Now, the school did come to a resolution with the government. They agreed to pay a$200 million settlement over three years, and that agreement also says that the majority of the funding cut in March of 2025 will be restored.

17:11Robert, what precedent is there for this level of involvement by a federal government or any government in a university's affairs? There is not precedent for the federal government having this level of involvement. State governments act pretty strongly with public universities, but that's well accepted. That is within state law as universities tend to be units of the state. At the federal level, we have not had this level of management from Washington. And even when Columbia got grants restored, it was only in selective fields. My colleagues in education saw their grants cut while grants in health were returned.

17:53When you look at Columbia's decision to negotiate with the Trump administration, come to this settlement, I'm curious, Robert, what kind of effect did that have at other schools? How did other schools observe that approach and how did they respond to it? Other schools watch this very carefully because their faculty and staff are not fully united behind a solution. Researchers that had grants were desperate to try to keep the grants in order to keep research going and keep people employed, while other fields of study were more concerned about academic freedom because they weren't directly receiving as much in federal funding.

18:36And what we saw with Brown and Penn and then this on-again, off-again, maybe-maybe-not settlement talk with Harvard, other institutions are watching to see, will they be expected to pay up? But it seems like those settlement talks have gone dormant with much more of a focus on this compact, which is a goal of a settlement across all of higher education without necessarily paying funds up front, but putting funds at risk on the back end. Because if there are any violations of this compact, the federal government can come in and strip money retroactively, and they give donors the right to strip any funds that they've given over the past year as well.

19:20I wanna ask a little bit more about this antisemitism issue. It was an issue at Columbia, which we're talking about. The administration put it on the table at Harvard. In the professors, the faculty members, Kate, Robert, either of you that you talk to, I'll put it bluntly, do people buy this? It's not that there isn't antisemitism on campus, there is. But do people think that this is really what the administration is concerned about, or have they named this in order to qualify as a civil rights violation because they're fighting other fights like against elitism or ideological capture, or they want more voices for conservatives, putting it under this label of anti-Semitism?

20:00I'll ask it just plainly. People on campus, faculty members, do they buy this? I would say the ones that I've spoken to don't and don't feel that the administration really cares about Jewish students and that it is a convenient wedge issue that divides campus and makes it easier to restrict federal funds. And people see the Title IX issues around transgender students similarly. Well, in August, the University of Michigan's Medical Center announced they would stop providing gender-affirming care to patients under the age of 19. The clinic was one of 20 that received subpoenas from the Department of Justice for providing care to trans youth.

20:43Robert, what does this say to you about how schools are responding to the Trump administration's demands, even before sitting down at the negotiating table? It says that politics are very tricky, especially for public institutions that are balancing what they have to do for the state government versus what they have to do for the federal government versus also keeping trustees happy, alumni happy, and their students happy. And one of the fascinating pieces about the compact discussions was that the governor of California said that if you do this, if you sign the compact, we'll strip your funds.

21:23And then the Democrats who control the legislature in Virginia said the exact same thing. Being a university president right now is essentially impossible. And just navigating these competing pressures is extraordinarily difficult on good days and impossible during a time like this. But both Harvard and Columbia are private institutions, and they've been at the focal point of a lot of these discussions. So why did they take such different approaches to the administration's demands? Part of it is just the profiles of the donors. What's going on with donors and trustees? Also, Columbia is not quite as strong financially as Harvard.

22:04And Harvard also, I think, takes its status as the biggest brand name really seriously. Higher education takes that seriously. And then after the settlement with Columbia was not viewed as being very satisfying to the higher ed community, I think that gave Harvard more leeway to try to push back. And Harvard takes a lot of flack in higher ed for being elite and not what American higher ed is. But we've seen a lot of higher education rally around Harvard during this time. Danny emails, I've worked in higher ed for 27 years. I have never seen universities and their learning environment go through this much chaos.

22:42I attended the University of Texas. I never had a liberal classroom. Well, Robert says that being a university president is the most unenviable job in America right now. Maybe not the most, but pretty tough, impossible, as he says. Well, University of Virginia is one example. Former president James Ryan resigned in June, and that's after the Department of Justice called for his resignation after their investigation into the school's alleged diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. So, Kate, what happened here, and what does it mean that the Trump administration's pressure campaign at UVA worked?

23:19Sure. So my colleague, Catherine Mangan, and I did some reporting on that in the spring and early summer. And the University of Virginia was under several investigations related to its DEI portfolio. And in the end, yes, the Trump administration pushed out President Ryan, And there was a lot of conflict over what the board should have done in this case. But in the end, he argued that he cannot jeopardize the university's future to save his job and step down. And many people were very frustrated about that. Further north in Virginia, we've seen President Gregory Washington at George Mason University take a very different kind of approach to that.

24:14and as the university has also been under half a dozen investigations related to DEI, especially in hiring. And he's really stood his ground against President Trump. So it's kind of been interesting to watch those various approaches play out. Let's go back to our voicemail. Here's a message we got from Chris. Many years ago, I graduated from the University of Arizona, one of the nine initial universities that received this so-called offer from the Trump administration. I wasn't surprised as U of A under their new president were way too quick to accept the demands to end all DEI initiatives. Accepting the terms of this compact would be exponentially worse.

24:56The text of the letter reads like something you would expect if you live under a dictatorship. The government will tell you who to hire, what to teach, and what your employees and students are allowed to say. Cross them and expect to lose funding from the government. I hope by the time you cover this topic, the University of Arizona and other colleges reject this threat. To those who accept these demands, shame on them. Chris, thanks for that message. We reached out to the University of Arizona. They sent us this statement that reads, in part, working with the Arizona Board of Regents, we are thoroughly reviewing the compact to understand its full scope and implications.

25:34We are also engaging shared governance leaders representing faculty, staff, and students, and other leaders across the state and nation to gather their input, end quote. And U of A has not rejected the compact so far. But Robert, I would like to hear you briefly talk about the broader political environment, especially for public universities. When we talk about regents or trustees, these are roles that are sometimes elected, sometimes they are appointed by a governor. And so while the president of a school may get a lot of attention, there is a governing body that that president answers to. What role do they play in these discussions?

26:13The trustees play a critical role because they're the ones who hire and fire leadership. And the reason why George Mason's president has been able to hang on in part is the Virginia Senate blocked appointments from the governor to the board. The board does not have the ability to operate. They don't have a quorum, and that has protected the governor. But in general, if you're at a red state public university, it's very difficult for leadership to speak out against the compact or against the administration because that runs the risk of taking heat from the state legislature to the point where trustees may end up firing you.

26:55And instead, you're seeing more quiet behind-the-scenes language like what's happening at the University of Texas right now. And I think you misspoke. I think you meant it protected the president that they aren't able to form a quorum right now. That gives the president some protection, some cover. Kate, in just a quick sentence, what are you watching for next? Sure. I'm watching for who's going to be the first, if there are any, to agree to the compact and the kind of language that they use in accepting it. That's Kate Hidalgo-Bellows. She's a staff reporter with the Chronicle of Higher Education and Robert Kelchin, a professor and the head of the Department of Educational Leadership and Policy Studies at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville.