Mr. Trump Goes To Windsor

0:07You're listening to the 1A podcast. I'm Jen White. And this is In Case You Missed It, where we bring you some of the week's most important conversations you might have missed. When he handed President Trump an invitation for a second state visit, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer broke the norm. This is really special. This has never happened before. This is unprecedented. I think that just symbolizes the strength of the relationship between us. President Trump visits the UK Wednesday, and leadership across the pond is making no secret of its intention to woo the U.S. leader while he's there.

0:41But there's more on the docket than making nice, and more at stake, too. Global affairs correspondent for The Guardian, Andrew Roth, joins us after the break. Andrew is based in Washington, D.C. We discuss what the visit means for the U.S. and the UK. Back with more in a moment.

1:02Andrew, welcome to the program. Hello, thanks for having me. So as we heard there, this is the second time President Trump has been invited to the UK for a state visit. His last visit was in 2019. So why is he being asked back right now? I think the big idea behind this visit is for the UK to keep Donald Trump on side, for Keir Starmer to cement his relationship with Donald Trump. This is a difficult moment for both sides. You know, Keir Starmer's government is in crisis. They've had to sack a couple of senior officials. And, of course, Donald Trump is focused on a lot of domestic turmoil as well at home, including the Jeffrey Epstein scandal and also some of the other things that are going on.

1:44And I think right now this is a chance for both of them to kind of meet up and especially for the UK to try to woo the US president in particular and try to keep him on side on both business and on geopolitical issues as well. Well, as you alluded to, Peter Mandelson is former British ambassador to the U.S. He was fired last week over revelations about his close relationship with convicted sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. How does that change the equation going into the state visit? Yeah, that's going to be the elephant in the room when the two leaders meet on Thursday at Chequers outside of London.

2:16Peter Mandelson did quite well during his short tenure as ambassador in the U.S. and he was very instrumental in trying to woo the kind of right-wing circles around President Trump. The fact that the UK government decided to sack him based around evidence around the Epstein scandal is a bit of a thorny question now. You know, the US administration has ignored that. So it means that when both leaders are in the same room, they'll be trying to sort of avoid that topic, but it's something that the press is definitely going to address. So it's going to be something that comes up on Thursday and it will be interesting to see how both sides have to manage the questions around the Epstein scandal.

2:54So that's an elephant in the room. We should acknowledge here that Starmer and Trump are not politically aligned, yet their relationship seems warm. What can you tell us about it? Right. So Keir Starmer is from the Labour Party, and of course just now in London over the weekend there was the right wing Unite the Right. March very much on opposite sides of the political spectrum. Donald Trump more on the right wing, Keir Starmer on the left. But Keir Starmer is a professional politician, and he recognizes that one of the biggest and most important allies for the UK around the world is the United States.

3:29So he needs to jump across that political divide, and he needs to make sure, first of all, that he can cement trade deals with the US. You know, he's very interested in US investment. Second of all, that he can get US support for geopolitical issues like Ukraine, that they can maybe mend some ties in terms of Israel and Gaza. And so, you know, he'll be doing that, but he'll also be trying not to alienate his base at home. So he's going to be on a kind of tightrope during this week when he tries to figure out, you know, how to kind of buddy up with Trump, but at the same time, not seem like he's completely thrown his own base under the bus.

4:03Explain more about the strategy Starmer and the UK are taking as the visit approaches. So the first thing that I think we should note about this is that there's going to be a lot of pomp and a lot of pageantry in this visit. One thing that doesn't cost the UK that much, but they can pay big dividends, is giving Trump a really royal welcome during the second state visit. So we're going to see Donald Trump arrive on Tuesday evening. He's going to be going to Windsor Castle. On Wednesday, he's going to be treated to a carriage ride through the castle grounds along with his wife, Melania. There will be a salute.

4:38He'll be met by King Charles and the Queen Consort, Camilla. And then in the evening, there's going to be a white tie event. You know, all of this is really focused on, I would say, playing at the heartstrings a little bit of Donald Trump, of showing him that he's respected and giving him the kind of respect that he feels he deserves. So that when they get down to business and they have these serious discussions about investment and trade deals, that he might be willing to give them a little bit more leeway in terms of what they discuss. The other big thing that's interesting is that they'll be also laying a wreath at the grave of Queen Elizabeth II.

5:09Second, Donald Trump has spoken about seeing her coronation in his childhood and that it was a moment that he remembers about the British royal family. So there is definitely a sense of nostalgia that they'll be trying to play with as well. Now, President Trump will arrive with several big tech CEOs like the heads of NVIDIA and OpenAI. And there's a technology packed on the table for both countries to sign. What is it and what does it do for these tech giants? The main thing that it does for the UK is to guarantee investment from the United States. So what they're really focused on is finding a way to get the heads of these major groups to make deals so that they can provide services and equipment into the United Kingdom.

5:51They're also interested in having Google support and invest in a major data center outside of, well, in the UK outside of London. That will sort of fuel the future of AI work there as well. You know, with the trade deal that they have kind of outlined along with Ambassador Peter Mandelson, there are a lot of questions left to discuss about what the tariffs are going to be in terms of services that are provided. You know, are companies going to be facing extra taxes, etc.? And that's some of the things that they're going to have to hammer out during this trip. You mentioned Ukraine, and I know there are ongoing concerns about security.

6:28What's on the table there? it's not quite clear yet because at the moment you know it's more of a kind of vibes focused discussion with donald trump because his position on ukraine at every moment seems to shift you know over the weekend as russian attacks on ukraine have increased he did change some of his rhetoric and talk about the idea that you know russia was the aggressor in this conflict it seems fairly commonplace knowledge but donald trump has kind of wavered on that issue at the same time, he's also put out statements on Truth Social saying that all of Europe, in order to stop the war, should establish 100 % tariffs on China and India.

7:04I mean, that's major news for the UK and for the EU. They'll be trying to, I think, focus him a little bit more on providing support to Ukraine. And in particular, if the negotiations fail between Russia and Ukraine, which it seems that they very likely will, what is the US's future going to be in terms of supporting Ukraine? will there be continued support with weapons or financially? And at the very least, will the US continue to give intelligence support to Ukraine? So it's almost a kind of post-negotiations discussion that they'll be holding. And in terms of the UK's position on the war in Gaza, what's on the table there?

7:42The big issue is that Keir Starmer has said that along with several European countries, including France, that they were ready to recognize a Palestinian state if Israel didn't fulfill certain base kind of level guarantees. And it hasn't done so so far. So the question is, to a certain degree, how the U.S. is going to retaliate to that. Keir Starmer will be trying to explain the U.K.'s position and to say, you know, make this palatable to Donald Trump so that he doesn't react very strongly, he doesn't punish the U.K. for that, and maybe so that he doesn't increase his support for other moves like a possible Israeli annexation of West Bank settlements as well.

8:23So they'll be trying to gauge what the U.S. reaction is going to be if the U.K. recognizes the Palestinian state. So you've laid out for us what the U.K. hopes to get out of this visit. What about the U.S.? Are they hoping to come away with anything specific? I think there are a couple of things. First of all, the optics are really important for Donald Trump to show that he's a fetid leader around the world to divert attention from some of the scandals that are around his administration, including the Epstein scandal. Secondly, the big issue for the US is always trade and for Donald Trump as well.

8:55The UK is the first country that the US signed a kind of direct trade agreement with. This is a big gambit of Donald Trump's second term, maybe the most important one. But there's a lot of meat left to be put on the bones of that agreement. It really is a kind of outline. And I think if Donald Trump can walk away and say that he secured investment agreements, et cetera, that that will be the big win that he touts in the future. So as you're watching this state visit rollout, other countries will be watching as well. What do you think they'll watch for as Keir Starmer and President Trump meet? The main question is always who can speak to Donald Trump and who can bring him and keep him on side.

9:36Trump has a very different worldview to previous U.S. presidents, and a lot of people have been wondering, is there a person who can kind of woo him and manage to explain to him in a language that he'll understand the reason why it's important to maintain a strong alliance between the US and the UK or Europe as well. There are various people who are kind of vying for that role, but the big question will be optics of how Donald Trump and Keir Starmer seem to meet, how they manage the kind of political minefield around what's going on as well. And if Keir Starmer can walk away, maybe with some kind of firm guarantees on Ukraine, on Gaza, to show that there is somebody in Europe who can help keep Donald Trump on board.

10:16And at the street level, how do you expect people in the UK to receive this visit? So Donald Trump, you know, despite the Unite the Right march this weekend and the large numbers of people who came out for that, Donald Trump is not very popular in the United Kingdom, you know, especially with Labour and on the left. So they are keeping him out of London is one thing you can see in this trip. You know, he'll be traveling around the countryside mainly. But you'll see protests in London, but also, you know, even near Windsor Castle where he's going to be visiting as well. So you will see street protests that will come up in the press conferences as well.

10:50And it's something that Keir Starmer will have to explain, too. That's Andrew Roth. He's a global affairs correspondent based in Washington, D.C., for The Guardian. Andrew, thanks for walking us through that. Thanks so much for having me. This program comes to you from WAMU, part of American University in Washington, distributed by NPR. I'm Jen White. Thanks for listening, and let's talk more soon. This is 1A.