Religious Leaders' Response To Trump’s Immigration Crackdown

0:07Tens of thousands of people protested the Trump administration's immigration crackdown in Minnesota last month, including hundreds of religious leaders of religious leaders. immigrant workers. And more than a thousand rabbis and Jewish leaders signed an open letter urging Israel to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza last summer. The actions of these faith leaders stand in stark contrast to the conservative Christianity touted by the Trump administration. Last week at the National Prayer Breakfast in D.C., President Trump falsely claimed that he eliminated a tax provision which bars nonprofits, including churches, from endorsing political candidates.

0:57He also said this. We worked hard on getting rid of the Johnson Amendment. It's gone as far as you can say anything you want. Now, if you do say something bad about Trump, I will change my mind and I will have, I will have your tax exempt status immediately revoked. The relationship between religion and social activism is far from new, but how is that relationship changing in this political moment? I'm Naila Boudou in for Jen White. You're listening to the 1A Podcast. Back with more in just a moment.

1:32Joining us in studio is Jack Jenkins. He's a national reporter for Religion News Service, covering the intersection of religion and politics. Jack, welcome to 1A. Thank you for having me. We're also happy to have with us Bishop Sean Rowe, the presiding bishop and primit of the Episcopal Church. Bishop, it's great to have you. Thank you for having me. And Anne-Marie Mingo, she's an associate professor of ethics, culture, and moral leadership at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. She's also author of the book, Have You Got Good Religion? Black Women's Faith, Courage, and Moral Leadership in the Civil Rights Movement.

2:05Professor Mingo, welcome. It is wonderful to be here. Bishop Rowe, you and the Episcopal Church have been directly involved in some of the grassroots efforts to respond to this administration's aggressive immigration policies. That also includes a decision last year to cancel the church's contract with the U.S. government for resettling refugees. How would you describe the Episcopal Church's role when it comes to immigration right now? Again, thank you for having me. I think particularly in this time, it is about love of neighbor and welcoming all people, and particularly respecting their dignity.

2:44And we as an Episcopal Church have and will continue to stand with those, particularly those who are considered other and those who are made to be unwelcome. But our role, particularly at this time, is to help support the grassroots efforts that are happening, particularly as we see in Maine and in Minnesota. And we're able to do that and to support our people on the ground there. We're also engaging in significant policy work and advocacy and involved in a lawsuit against the federal government where we're a plaintiff suing over the sensitive locations, the removal of the sensitive locations memo.

3:30So trying to say, look, ICE can't target churches and places of worship. So in addition to the grassroots work that we're doing, also looking at how we make the systemic changes, how we just have a policy and a way of being that treats people with dignity and respect. We just got an email from John who says, please highlight this quote from Judeo-Christian scriptures. When a foreigner resides with you in your land, do not mistreat such a one. You shall treat the foreigner who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you. You shall love the foreigner as yourself for you two were once foreigners in the land.

4:09Bishop Breaux, would you use that passage to describe how this work is connected to your own faith? I certainly would. I mean, it's a basic tenet of our faith all the way through. We once were far off and we've been brought near. So we were once strangers in now, but absolutely. And Jesus' commandment to love neighbor as self, you know, not as much as yourself, but as yourself, as an extension of yourself. So absolutely, this is part of our tradition, welcoming the stranger. And so this idea that somehow people are othered because they're immigrants, and particularly in a country of immigrants, is something that runs contrary and counter to the tradition as I understand it.

4:59Jack, you have been on the ground, not just in Minnesota, but elsewhere. You've been in LA and Chicago. Can you just first of all explain what you saw and heard in Minneapolis and compare that to the religious response you saw in other cities? Yeah, I mean I should note up front the fascinating thing about Minneapolis when I was there last month is that if the pushback to ICE in that city isn't uniform, it sure feels that way. You know, at one point I was riding around the neighborhood where Renee Good was killed by DHS agents and with a pastor. And on every single street corner, there was an observer, somebody wearing a whistle who was prepared to blow that whistle if they saw DHS agents.

5:45It just felt so uniform. So it's not entirely surprising that faith communities are a part of that effort. You know, I spoke to any number of pastors who, you know, were trying to aid immigrants in the area through their churches, whether that's providing resources and food to migrant families that are afraid to leave their homes right now, to pastors who were kind of like in the thick of it in terms of the protests. I spoke with at least two pastors who had rushed to the scene after Rene Gubb was killed and either were themselves pepper sprayed or experienced pepper spray or had pepper powder shot at them by DHS agents in response to that.

6:25It just feels super ubiquitous among the faith communities there. Like you mentioned, that protest where around 100 clergy were arrested at a protest recently. I should note that across the street, there were hundreds more of clergy and other faith leaders. Who were there and did not get arrested, but were also there. Exactly. So it just, it feels, you know, someone who's covered the religious left for a long time. This, you know, there's this critical mass that I found in Minneapolis that I haven't seen in my career. We got this email from Christy who said, In 1977 and 1978, demonstrators who opposed the nuclear policies of then-President Jimmy Carter took their objections into the heart of Carter's church home, the first Baptist church of the city in Washington, D.C.

7:08Christy's a longtime member of First Baptist DC. Professor Mingo, religious leaders, houses of worship have long played a major role in social movements. We're going to talk more in depth about the civil rights movement and how that couldn't have happened without churches. Can you help us understand why churches across America have played such a pivotal role in social movements? Churches and other religious organizations have been playing a critical role in the type of justice-centered love work that matters for a thriving society. And so very often my own faith is that of the Christian faith, but I study broadly and I pay attention to those who pay attention to humanity.

7:50And that's been one of the key drivers for why so many religious groups, religious people have been trying to do the right thing. You lifted up a verse just a moment ago, but if I were to draw from many of the Christian texts, we are often told to, I'm thinking about an Isaiah text, to learn to do what is right and to seek justice and to defend the oppressed. We are called to do this work if we actually believe what we say we believe. And so when we think about this, not only historically, but also in the current moment, it makes sense to me to see people of faith rising up and saying something is not right here because people are not being treated well.

8:33And I'm going to stand on my faith, stand on my belief and take the risk to actually put my body perhaps there in a form of protest, but really as a form of declaring, I believe what I believe and I want best for you also. Professor, we're going to be talking more in depth about the conservative Christianity expressed by the Trump administration, supporters of the Trump administration. We heard a bit from the president at the National Prayer Breakfast last week. How do you understand, how do you think we should be thinking about the link between religion and politics in America in 2026? So it's so interesting, religion and politics in many ways, especially when we think about the Christian faith, which I believe is the one that we are focusing a little bit more on based on those comments last week.

9:24they've always been intricately connected to politics. The Christ was killed as a result of a political statement. And so there's not really a way to live the faith out without some form of challenging political systems that are oppressive. And that's where I see the Christian faith standing up at its best. However, when we see people who profess to be Christians, profess to be living out that faith in a way that is actually counter to the challenging of oppression, we have to question the validity of their faith, which is why I do this work around, is your religion actually good, right? All religions are not moving in a way that are justice-centered, love-anchored, and can put us towards a path that leads to the good.

10:17And so it's a question in this moment where everything that professes Christianity does not actually live out the practices of the Christ that they claim. We have been talking about Christianity. We are going to talk about interfaith efforts after the break. Stay with us.

10:40Bishop Rowe, we wanted to talk—I did want to ask you about religious leaders from all walks of faith coming together. As we were talking about Christianity just before the break, can I ask you what the interfaith collaboration has looked like for you with the Episcopal Church? Yeah, I think it's important, again, to think how we talk with all people who care about humanity in this time, all people who have a love of neighbor. We are particularly our lawsuit with the federal government related to sensitive locations as an interfaith cooperative effort with other Jewish groups and other Christian groups where many of us talking to each other, Muslim, Christian, Judaism, and other world religions, other religious leaders.

11:34We're all trying to, in this together, respect and love the neighbor. And this is a critical time for cooperation across faiths and across religions. Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia is both a politician and religious leader. He's senior pastor at Atlanta's Ebenezer Baptist Church, most famously, of course, where Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was. Here's what he told 1A host Jen White recently at an Aspen Institute event about resistance in this moment. I know now more than I did before I was elected that while what happens in that office where I work down the street is important, we really are in a moral moment in our country where we're going to have to see more and more people do what the folks in Minneapolis are doing in various ways.

12:24It's not always marching, but in various ways. The people have got to take their voice back. We got this email from Susan. Pope Leo and the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops have been very vocal in opposing the dehumanization of immigrants, citing the inherent dignity of all people, a pillar of Catholic social teaching. They also acknowledge the right of countries to secure their borders, noting that enforcement does not justify inhumane tactics. Jack, you sat in on an interfaith meeting in Minnesota. 600 people from various religious groups, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim at Westminster Presbyterian Church last month.

13:01What was so remarkable to you about this meeting as someone who's been covering interfaith issues for quite some time? Yeah, I mean, the first thing that jumps out is just a raw gathering of 600, 600 plus. And I should acknowledge, you know, that count was while people were still moving in and out of the sanctuary. So it might have been more. So that's a pretty big gathering. That's huge for – particularly for, you know, gathering specifically to be trained on how to resist DHS and push back against the president's mass deportation agenda, right? And that is – and I should note that meeting was called in less than a week.

13:32So this is just the people who could get there on the spurt of the moment to be able to fly out to Minneapolis. And just, you know, it was pan-religious. You saw a wide variety of different religious professionals there ranging from bishops to local pastors who were a part of this. And, you know, I've been covering the religious left for a long time. There's lots of organizations and entities that often kind of facilitate these sorts of things. But this was really kind of organized by a local group that called in all these pastors who just responded to the call. And I think the level of sophistication and the energy level that was expressed by these various faith leaders, specifically to resist the government, is something I haven't seen in a long time.

14:15There's a group of rabbis who have been meeting in D.C. also this week doing similar training, Jack? Yes, they absolutely are. And there were actually a contingency of rabbis at that training in Minneapolis, but it looks like we now have an additional level of training happening here this week with, again, a group of rabbinical leaders. And that's really interesting. The more faith voices get involved here, the more different communities get touched by this faith-based resistance to ICE. And what that does and what I saw happen is that a lot of these faith communities – I spoke to one pastor when I was in Minneapolis who had been with a group of other pastors when they encountered ICE, confront a woman and ask her for documentation of citizenship.

15:01and he talked about how this had radicalized him. Like the experience of seeing that he was a New York pastor, that made him rethink, even though he was already on board with this idea, it made him rethink what his immediate duty of care will be to his own community should federal agents show up. So I think that I'm hearing that story over and over and over again from pastors, from big liberal states in California, what have you, and also folks in states like Nebraska. Professor Mingo, when we think about the civil rights movement, history largely paints that as something that happened just among Christian clergy.

15:37Can I ask you, what role did other faiths and other religious groups play in that movement? How should we be thinking about that now as well? That's such a wonderful question because we often know movements or know historical times through whatever medium people have been wanting us to understand it, not necessarily the fullness of the story. So as I think about even the traditional civil rights movement era, some of the earliest persons that were doing the work. So I think of Ella Baker, who was a black Christian woman. I think of Bayard Rustin, who was a Quaker man. I think of Stanley Levinson, who was a white Jewish man.

16:15They come together to form in like 1957 what becomes a Southern Christian Leadership Conference. That was King's main organization. Its origins was diverse from an interfaith standpoint. When I think about Jewish leaders like Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, who marched side by side with King, when I think about Baha 'i followers like H. Elise Austin, who was very active with the NCNW and a number of other organizations, many people who were concerned about people were active both historically and they're active now. And I hope that as we have conversations like this, more will find their own historical legacy of justice work through movement work and begin to come back in line with some of those things today.

17:08Because it's always been an interfaith movement. It's always been a pretty diverse movement, even if the media at that time would have us to only believe that there were Black male pastors as leaders. Jack, when we think about what you have seen in terms of interfaith efforts, I wonder if you can share a little bit more about maybe what we're not seeing, maybe what we're not seeing in pictures or in headlines or on social media, but maybe happening behind the scenes. Yeah, this has been a fascinating aspect of this historical moment is that a lot of the public activism that's faith-rooted often is led by faith leaders who are less vulnerable to DHS, whether that's deportation or detention.

17:53And that's – a lot of activists would argue that that's by design, right? That these are the folks who can speak out the loudest because they have the capacity to do so. I have had pastors of heavily immigrant congregations tell me that they have wanted to show up to events to kind of speak out and that their congregations have actively encouraged them not to because of the concerns about vulnerability. But what I have also heard is that while that organizing is happening publicly, immigrant faith communities and immigrant communities in general are doing a heck of a lot of activism on their own that's just by default less public.

18:26This is a lot of mutual aid work. This is a lot of advocating for each other. that is happening just below the service. Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't moments where many of the more vulnerable communities have been public, whether that's showing up at a vigil and speaking out, which several did in Minneapolis. Two, you know, there was one really interesting moment that I had in Minneapolis when I was riding around with that pastor who was trying to spot or observe DHS agents. There was one moment where what appeared to be an unmarked vehicle that belonged to DHS drove past, And it was followed by this caravan of vehicles who were honking and blowing their whistles, which is a common sight actually in Minneapolis.

19:07But I noted that one of the people who was blowing their whistles was a woman in hijab. And that is far more rare to see, but it showcased, you know, as was kind of said to me later by faith leaders, that is just one example of a much larger organizing effort that's happening just below the surface that's by default less public. As we talk about public religious events, I want to just highlight the group of Buddhist monks who have been completing a walk for peace across America. They began in October in Fort Worth, Texas. They've walked 2 ,300 miles, and they arrived Tuesday in our nation's capital, and it was amazing to see people lining the streets to welcome them at the end of their pilgrimage.

19:46I spoke with the organizers yesterday. They made a point of saying that what they were doing was not political, but it was spiritual, and it was about peace. Here's Venerable Bhikkhu Panakara. When walking like this, I see so much people coming out to support this mission, to join this walk in different ways. And that told me that people are deeply suffering, and they truly need help. and I will be able to do little things to support our nation and people around the world. Hoping that for all the people in this world do this together, I truly believe everything will be changed. I like how he said doing a little thing, which was walking 2 ,300 miles across the country.

20:35I was so struck yesterday by the huge crowds and the tons of people that were stuck in traffic, but there were no horns honking. Everyone was being so kind to each other, and it did seem like people were embodying this message of peace. Can I ask Professor Mingo, Bishop Rowe, why you think their message has been so resonant, as I imagine you have watched with interest their pilgrimage across the country, Professor? I have loved watching them. I was very tempted to make the drive down to D.C. yesterday to be a part. There's still time. You can do it today. Yeah, literally, I was thinking about it.

21:10But there have been times when I've been watching some of their clips that I have been literally moved to tears at the interactions of everyday people who are coming up to walk alongside, who are being drawn into the message of peace. And one of the things that it reminds me of is that this has been a wonderful opportunity to stretch our own moral imagination around what is possible. To move us and to shift us from the angst that has been existing, from the pain that has been existing, and to narrow in on the literal movement of peace. and to see the joy that shows up when people have been coming through and standing patiently and waiting to walk alongside, paying attention to their dog and making sure that the dog is getting the right type of care.

22:03It's been extremely moving. And one of the things that also was noticeable to me is that so much of their path and journey, because they intentionally went to their own state capitol first and then took another route, which made it a little longer, it also kept them in the Bible Belt for quite a bit. And to see the response of so many people again being drawn into peace lets us know where we are right now as a nation and a world, that this is a moment of moral reckoning. This is a moment of calling us to something that is larger than ourselves and that is beginning to be centered once again around justice, around peace and around love.

22:45And so I have loved watching it. I've been excited when I see friends posting about it. And I've been really encouraged when I see young people joining in on the line, joining in as a part of this, because that then speaks to what the next generation will have as one of their core memories for what our world can be. And that is one of peace and love. Bishop, we just have a brief moment before we take a break, but I wonder if you could quickly reflect. I think what's happening here is something is resonating. This isn't just about Christians and Christian faith. This is about the wisdom that has been passed down to us through the centuries that has us desiring human flourishing.

23:29And it just creates a great joy to watch that group walk to the nation's capital, but to see the joy in people's hearts because we care about the other, our neighbor. Our neighbor is ourself. Let's take a quick pause here. We'll be back with more in just a moment. Stay with us.

23:51Let's get back to this conversation with this message we got from Pete. Jack, I wonder if you can respond to this saying, stop calling it conservative Christianity. It's white Christian nationalism. Can you give us a definition of what white Christian nationalism looks like? Who's calling themselves that? How that relates to what the Trump administration and is the Trump administration using those terms? Yeah. So this is a fascinating emerging story. You know, conversations about Christian nationalism have gone on for years. The term white Christian nationalism is usually used as, you know, kind of an allegation lobbed by more liberal Christians.

24:27But the thing about it is that now there are whole groups of Christians that self-identify. As Christian nationalism or Christian nationalists, right? So one of the more prominent examples is Doug Wilson, this pastor out in Moscow, Idaho, who self-describes as a Christian nationalist. He has a lot of very controversial theology among it. And has the congregation now in D.C. as well. Yes. And he has – it's this project of their church here in D.C. I went to their inaugural worship service there where they talked about worship is warfare. That was the term they used. And sitting in the pews was Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, who is a loyal churchgoer at this congregation now.

25:05So to kind of give you an idea of how these self-described Christian nationalists actually have the support of prominent members of the Trump administration. But I should note that the criticism of Christian nationalism is pretty widespread within Christianity in the United States more broadly. And that includes a lot of critics within the – even within evangelicalism who have spoken out against this really since around 2016. But that has escalated even more so in the last year as the Trump administration goes into its second term here. And I'll note that even if they're not necessarily criticizing Christian nationalism, there has been no shortage of Christians in general, but even evangelicals, what we describe as conservative evangelicals who have articulated opposition to the theology that has been promoted by some of the supporters of the president or even the administration itself.

25:56And what are we seeing now among the evangelical church in terms of that there is some evidence that Trump's approach to immigration is also dividing the strong support that he has enjoyed among evangelicals? Right. I'll caveat this by saying that we have seen a drop in white evangelical support for Trump. It is also roughly the same drop he had in the first administration. And so then they came back to support him. That having been said, a really fascinating aspect of the early era of this second term for Trump was watching a lot of evangelical organizations. So, for instance, World Relief, which is an evangelical Christian group that has been one of the groups that has resettled refugees for quite some time, become more and more vocal in criticizing this administration's moves when it comes to immigration, immigrants, and refugees.

26:42There was even a vigil in D.C. here that gathered together a number of evangelical leaders who kind of work with these particularly internationally focused groups who are criticizing both the moves that the administration has taken with regard to immigration, but also the cutting of USAID funding and how that has impacted a lot of the groups that they advocate for. And this even includes persecuted Christians, I should note. Evangelicals have long advocated for persecuted Christians abroad, but the Trump administration has actually shut down the refugee program virtually with the exceptions for white Afrikaners being one of the only people who are allowed in.

27:17That means folks who are facing religious persecution who want refugee status here in the United States cannot get that right now. And in fact, people who have faced religious persecution and have asylum have been caught in immigration raids and sent to detention facilities. Right. And so the net result is that there's this whole subset of evangelicalism that has spent a lot of time, money, and effort on these issues that is deeply frustrated by what we are seeing out of the Trump administration. Whether or not that would turn the dial in an electoral sense is another question, but it is rare to see those groups be that vocal in criticizing a Republican president.