The News Roundup For December 19, 2025

26:39Arthur, do we know what documents will and will not be included in this release? Stuff that is obscene or contains identifying information, which there's a ton of, should be redacted or omitted. And the Justice Department has significant leeway there. And also stuff that's related to an ongoing investigation. You remember, the president directly ordered an investigation of Bill Clinton's Epstein ties. So there's big questions about what they're going to put out today. And actually, this morning, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said, quote, I expect that we're going to release more documents over the next couple of weeks.

27:17Huh? That's kind of a weird thing to say. He's essentially saying we're not going to meet this deadline. It's a statutory deadline. There's no penalty for them in the law for not complying with it. I spoke to Thomas Massey, the author of this legislation. I said, how are you going to know if they're putting out everything that they should? And he said, we've got the checks. We can run some checks on it. We know the victims, and they know the names of 20 accused that should be in the file. So there will be the victims assisting. This will be sort of a crowdsourced thing. The Justice Department clearly, though, is planning to hold stuff back.

27:59Olivier, what are lawmakers, what else are they hoping to learn from this? Well, they're hoping to learn the identity of more of the men who were in Epstein's social circles and to whom Epstein may have, I guess I'll use the word, trafficked some of these young women. To Massey's point, there are two other sources of Epstein information and documents. There's the Epstein estate, which has been releasing things. They made a lot of headlines. A lot of the Epstein headlines this year were things released by the estate. And then judges are releasing documents from court cases as well. So there's going to be kind of a checking one against the other process as the Justice Department releases or does not release its information.

28:38The estate stuff is a result of a Republican subpoena and has been incredibly damaging for the president because he's all over the files. And we've only seen, I think, perhaps about 100 documents out of 90 ,000 or more. So there's like a fountain of Epstein material coming out this year. And Megan, given how much we saw the sort of about-face Congress did in terms of authorizing the release of this, they're in recess right now. Yes, everybody left town yesterday somewhat conveniently for the year, and they won't be back until January. So we won't be having lawmakers to talk to, at least in Washington, when these documents do come out.

29:20The midterm elections are still 11 months away, but we already know the next Congress will look quite different. As of this week, more than 10 percent of lawmakers in the House and Senate will give up their seats. That is a higher number than normal, Olivier? It is, and you've got a couple of different reasons. One is there are some people who are finally retiring because they've reached the age, which they should no longer be lawmakers. And the other is that we expect this to be a very punishing midterm election for the Republicans. And so you're seeing some Republicans who say rather than end up in the minority, it's already not fun being in the majority in this current Congress.

29:55So being in the minority would be even less appealing. And so some of them are heading for the exit for that reason. But it does help us foretell that even they think it's going to be a bad year for Republicans. Megan, on Wednesday, FBI Director Dan Bongino announced he'll be stepping down in January. Can you remind us why he was such a controversial pick to begin with? Yeah, well, he has, I'll say, an unusual background to be the number two director. He came straight from a podcast and prior to that was in law enforcement, but in the Secret Service. So he was a right-wing podcaster who really just kind of caught Trump's eye and ascended the ranks here.

30:34He is somewhat notably, and this is a difference from the first Trump administration, the first high level person at DOJ, politically appointed person at DOJ to to resign or to leave this year. So Trump has managed to sort of keep Bondi and Kash Patel and others in office throughout the year. But it's kind of everything sort of comes full circle here. there's been some break between him and DOJ leaders over the Epstein investigation. He had a weird experience on that where he had been saying, you know, fueling the conspiracy theories about this, and then was part of the department after they reviewed everything, saying there's no client list, there's no unindicted third parties that we can go after based on this evidence.

31:23He also had said for years that the January 6th pipe bomber was an inside job, somehow a Democrat trying to help Democrats. And then they caught the pipe bomber. He wasn't that. They said he was just a weird, lonely guy. And he was confronted with this on Fox News and said, well, I was paid for my opinions back then, and now I work in facts. So the tension perhaps was getting to him. He'd rather go be paid for his opinion. Remember, he'd complained about a month into being in office. He'd complained about how hard the work was and how he was, you know, not seeing his family enough. He never seemed to embrace this job.

32:00It always seemed to be a strain on him. What's so interesting to me sort of about the Epstein undercurrent here is that it's reminiscent of Marjorie Taylor Greene and her decision to resign from Congress next month over her tension with the president on this. And it It goes back to how Trump really has courted this, you know, the sort of conspiracy theory minded QAnon base that really latched on to the Epstein sex trafficking case as, you know, when we think about Pizzagate and other things that have popped up. And we are seeing, you know, while we don't know certainly the details of his relationship with the president like we do with MTG, which was, you know, fought out on social media, it does kind of raise some eyebrows here as to where Trump's base of these supporters are going to be going in the coming weeks as we get more Epstein files come out.

32:57One bill that did pass this week in Congress was a big one, the National Defense Authorization Act, also known as the yearly defense bill. The Senate passed it 77 to 22 on Wednesday. This year, it gives$900 billion to the military. President Trump signed the bill Thursday in a small Oval Office gathering without reporters. Arthur, what do we need to know about what's in this big bill? There's a couple really interesting things in there that are essentially rebukes of Trump. The first and most notable is that they're going to reduce Pete Hegseth's travel budget, which he's always flying around and making videos of himself doing pull-ups in different places.

33:34And he'll have less money for that unless he gives Congress the videos, unredacted videos of those boat strikes that are controversial because they look like war crimes. And there's another thing that disallows the Pentagon from reducing the U.S. troop presence in Europe, which reflects traditional Republican foreign policy going against Trump's isolationist impulse. So on that note, on the House side on Wednesday, Democrats forced two votes on the president's recent moves in the Caribbean. The first about his campaign of military strikes against both there and in the Eastern Pacific. The second about potential U.S.

34:13military action against Venezuela's government or within the country. The two votes failed, but only narrowly, with a handful of Republican members joining Democrats to vote for the limited measures both times. The failed bills would have required the administration to seek congressional approval before continuing the boat strikes or launching an attack on Venezuela. Olivia, what have you heard in Congress and versus the White House on this? Particularly, we've seen this back and forth between Hegseth and the administration about one particular strike on September 2nd, but also this broader conversation about war powers.

34:51There's deep unease on a bipartisan basis in Congress about the Venezuela strategy writ large and also about that September 2nd boat strike. The controversy there is the first strike basically obliterated the boat, left two survivors, and then 45 minutes later, the Pentagon carried out a second strike, killing those two survivors. American law of war is very specific, saying that someone who is shipwrecked and out of the fight, if you strike them, that is a war crime. So there's a lot of concern there. The broader concern about Venezuela, this administration has not done a great job of explaining what it's trying to do in Venezuela.

35:28You know, Donald Trump just did a phone interview with NBC in which he said he's not ruling out going to war full on with Venezuela. We know that he wants Maduro, the president of Venezuela, widely regarded as illegitimate, wants him out. And we know that he wants the oil. He wants the massive Venezuelan oil reserves. But so there's concern in Congress about that. So the chief of staff of the White House, Susie Wiles, just did an interview, actually a bunch of interviews with Vanity Fair. But in one of them, she said that if things escalated to a land war, they would need to get Congress on board.

36:03That's probably probably reflects some internal conversations. But I don't think the president is going to go for that. He's been very clear. He and Hexeth have been very clear that they think they're using their their war powers appropriately. So at least 99 people have been killed by the U.S. military during this campaign that started in September. Another two strikes were announced this week, even as Congress is asking for more transparency in particular. Megan? Yeah, I just wanted to go back a minute on sort of the bipartisan push here for more transparency. You know, there was, I feel like, a bit of a fervor last month over this.

36:42And that certainly has, I feel, has dissipated a bit in the last few weeks. You know, the Republican-led House and Senate Armed Services Committees launched, you know, bipartisan probes of the September 2nd strike. The House Committee has already concluded its probe, and we've seen the Senate Armed Services Chair, Roger Wicker, kind of go from tough talk to the administration to more acquiescing that, you know, well, I agree with them that these strikes are legal. Well, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth have been on the Hill reportedly, repeatedly briefing lawmakers on this.

37:23And Democrats and Republicans have come out saying very different things about how those briefings have gone. The NDAA also doesn't just require the release of the unredacted complete videos. It also requires the Pentagon to turn over basically the rules of engagement. What are the orders that they've given to the uniformed military, which could also be a source of controversy depending on what they said? Tammy points out that we've referred to Epstein survivors as young women, and she says, quote, they were girls, and calling them young women lessens a severity when people think of them as women.

37:57Tammy, thanks for that comment. We also got this question from Kit. But shouldn't FIFA and IOC move their big events outside of the U.S. given that dozens of people from dozens of countries are banned from visiting? Olivia, you're nodding. They are setting the stage for a really difficult World Cup with the immigration policy. Not just the stuff that we've talked about on the show, but also the new rules that say you have to make five years of your social media public. If you are a person with your social media set to private, you have to make it public, which has all kinds of ramifications for young women in countries where that's not really popular.

38:34They are really making – oh, and you've got to provide names, addresses, and phone numbers of relatives. They're making it really complicated, really difficult for FIFA to have a smooth World Cup here. It looks like a recipe for, at best, massive backlogs, and at worst, a lot of people being turned away for really random reasons. This is our last roundup of 2025. Each of you have been with us over the past year as we've been covering all of the news that has happened. Can I just ask you to reflect on your past year as a journalist and American and what you are thinking about after this year of news?

39:10Arthur, can I start with you? Sure. Lots of times on here, we talked about the overwhelming Trump administration, how they were doing so many things so rapidly. And at times it was disconcerting how they seemed to be disregarding the law and expanding presidential power. And now it does not feel the same. It feels like Trump's power is waning. His popularity is going down. He's making an emergency primetime address where he just kind of gives his regular speech. It's gotten to him. He's also noticeably older. And this is something we've all been primed to pay attention to because of Joe Biden.

39:52And now the president is dozing off a little bit. And some of his power over his own party has clearly slipped. And that's reflected in some of the votes we just described where Republicans are going against the administration. So things have shifted for sure and not in Trump's favor. Olivier? I don't think we've fully processed that AI is the number one political story in this country right now. I think that's something we're going to realize in five years when it has accelerated even more. It's the source of a lot of fights between states and the federal government, between tech. And I myself am something of an AI doomer, so I guess I'm on that train of thought.

40:33But I think we're going to realize that in a few years. It's crucially important. Megan? You know, I think I'm going to reflect on the last part where you said as a journalist and as an American. During the course of my career, I don't think I've ever covered decisions and executive orders and legislation that has so personally affected me and for various reasons. And I think that being both as a Washington resident, a D.C. resident, and as a mother, and I think that it has been a very different year to be a journalist in Washington. And I will say, as a journalist and public media host, I am very grateful to all of you for the journalism that you have done, not just for us today, but for the year.

41:22So thank you so much to Megan Scully, Congress Editor for Bloomberg News, Arthur Delaney, Senior Reporter for HuffPost, and Olivia Knox, National Correspondent for U.S. News and World Report. After another quick break, we'll have all of the headlines from around the world with our international panel that's just after this. Stay with us.

41:44Now let's turn to all the news from around the world this week. Here with me in studio, Nancy Youssef, staff writer at The Atlantic, covering national security and the Defense Department. Good to have you, Nancy. Great to be here. Michelle Jermrisco is on the line with us as well. She's a White House and national security editor at Bloomberg News. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Nyla. Good to be here. And joining us from London, David Rennie is geopolitics editor and columnist at The Economist, where he writes their column, The Telegram, last roundup of the year, David. Hello. This week, hundreds of mourners gathered in Sydney for the first of the funerals of 15 people who were killed in an anti-Semitic massacre at Bondi Beach Sunday.

42:24The mass shooting took place during a Hanukkah celebration. Australian authorities say the suspects, a father and son, were inspired by the Islamic State group. Australian investigators say that the younger of the two shooting suspects was investigated for six months by security services in 2019. They're also probing their travel to the Philippines before the attacks. The shooters reportedly spent the month of November in Davao City. Nancy, what do we know about their time there? Why the Philippines? Well, the Philippines in particular, there is a ISIS contingent there. It's much smaller than it was at its peak, right down to a few hundred members, mostly in the southern part of the country.

43:07But it is an opportunity and a place for groups like ISIS to continue to launch terrorist attacks. I think so many people thought that when the caliphate collapsed more than five years ago, that that was sort of the end of that threat. And while that physical territory doesn't exist, the ability of ISIS to inspire, and in some cases train group, those who want to do these kinds of attacks is still there. The Philippines being one of them. And so what we know is that they spent time there and presumably had interactions with members of the terror group or supporters of it and that in their cars there were ISIS flags.

43:49So clearly and explosives knowing that they were going to – when their car was discovered, they were signaling to the authorities that they wanted their attack to be tied to the terror group. So as we talk about that, how the Islamic State is perhaps inspiring others, we also saw in October a Syrian-born British citizen rammed a car into people and attacked others with a knife outside a synagogue on Yom Kippur in Manchester, England. Last weekend, two U.S. National Guard members and a civilian translator were killed in Syria. On Tuesday, the Polish authorities arrested a law student suspected of plotting to attack a Christmas market.

44:30But Michelle, as Nancy was talking about, there's not necessarily a territorial hold for the Islamic State anymore. But from a national security standpoint and for people who are trying to fight against terrorism, how do you do that when you're dealing with people who are, quote, inspired by a global terror network that doesn't have that much physical existence anymore? Well, that's long been the problem with groups like ISIS, like the Islamic State and other regions. And it's an important question to ask, and I don't think we really know the answer. The question also is whether the influence is growing or more hopefully some desperate one-off attacks are showing a group with waning power, but with some real concerns about terrorists and other affiliates more broadly.

45:16And of those incidents that you mentioned, Niall, I think the Syria one is perhaps most worth our attention right now in this context, because any such attacks there, especially with the U.S. casualties that we unfortunately had recently, will test the international community's patience with this leader in al-Shara, who used to lead an affiliate of al-Qaeda, and others in his leadership, including the interior minister who has ties to the, or had ties to the Islamic State. So whether the Syrian leadership follows through on its pledges to root out terrorism and help rehabilitate this war-torn country, or if there's something more nefarious and it allows these groups to grow, whether intentionally or not, that's going to be another key focus here.

45:56We did do a deep dive on the regrouping of the Islamic State earlier this week. You can find that analysis with Jen and Idris Ali of Reuters online at the1a.org. The tragedy in Australia has also sparked a national conversation about the country's already strict gun laws and anti-Semitism. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has announced reforms to curb radicalization, tougher hate speech laws, and stricter gun controls. But some leaders in Australia's Jewish community have been seeing a rise in anti-Semitism and urging the country's leaders to act. Victoria Lipinski's father was injured in the attack.

46:32This is not a surprise to us, but this is nonetheless unacceptable. It's unacceptable anywhere. and we're not going to be quiet about the realities and the warnings of it happening here in Australia or anywhere for that matter around the world. David, Australia, widely seen as a religiously tolerant country, but what has this attack exposed about anti-Semitism there? The Australian government has been worried about this pretty much straight after the attacks by Hamas on the 7th of October 2023. you saw a massive surge in anti-Semitic attacks. And these are serious attacks. We've had fire bombings of a synagogue.

47:14We had a fire bombing of a Jewish children's center. Really nasty rhetoric from some very large protests. And the government actually appointed a special envoy to report formally on how bad a problem anti-Semitism is and reported back that it's a very serious problem. And in particular, things like polling of younger generations, really disturbing denial of the Holocaust, forced really disturbing levels of hatred. But for Australia, this is not just about law and order and policing. Of course, Australia is famously a country of immigration and is proud of its model of tolerant multiculturalism.

47:47And it is incredibly important to the Australians not to let the world's problems tear Australia apart along kind of sectarian, ethnic and religious lines. And I think that's why, in addition to that real concern about a real problem, you've seen such a tremendous focus on this extraordinary act of heroism by a member of the public who himself is a Muslim from Syria. That's Ahmed Ahmed. Ahmed Ahmed, who's actually pretty seriously injured. But I'm sure many of the listeners will have seen the extraordinary video of him just running out and tackling one of the gunmen and getting shot in the process.

48:21And so he has been visited by the prime minister by a whole stream of dignitaries, getting money from members of the public. And I think that's Australia saying that they want to believe that their model of multiculturalism, is not doomed to turn into ethnic hatred. Global condemnation of the attack was swift, but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu lashed out at Australia's leader, saying he had warned him of rising anti-Semitism and the danger that Australian policy around a Palestinian state was causing this. Here's what the Israeli Prime Minister said on December 14th. On August 17th, about four months ago, I sent Prime Minister Albanese of Australia a letter in which I gave him warning that the Australian government's policy was promoting and encouraging anti-Semitism in Australia.

49:17I wrote, your call for a Palestinian state pures full fuel on the anti-Semitic fire. It rewards Hamas terrorism. It emboldens those who menace Australian Jews and encourages the Jew hatred now stalking your streets. In an interview with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation on Monday, Albanese was asked whether he saw any link between the recognition of a Palestinian state in the Bandai shooting. Here's his exchange with ABC journalist Sarah Ferguson. No, I don't. And overwhelmingly, most of the world recognises a two-state solution as being the way forward in the Middle East. This is what Netanyahu also said.

50:02Prime Minister, you replaced weakness with weakness and appeasement with more appeasement. It's an extremely damaging statement. Do those words require an answer from you? What they require me as Australia's prime minister at this time is to bring the nation together, is to promote unity, is to make sure that what the terrorists seek, which is to divide us as a nation, to pit Australian against Australian, to say this is a moment of national unity. There has been no evidence connecting the attack to the Palestinian movement. David, it's interesting to hear both of those leaders there and how much of a difference perhaps I would love for you to just reflect on the way that these leaders, the tone that they're having, which voice you think is winning in Australia right now.

50:55look uh biniman netanyahu is uh an extremely divisive figure who is regarded with extreme impatience and exasperation by many western governments uh and look it's a very tricky thing right because you don't want to seem to minimize you know no one wants to minimize the absolute horror of what just happened in australia and i think the australian government has made clear with some of the very very stern responses they're proposing including some very very sweeping controls on free speech, that they don't minimize it. I think what you heard there was, although he was being diplomatic, the Australian Prime Minister really pushing back at, I guess, what many governments would say is Israel playing politics, that they are trying to argue that there is no distinction between a diplomatic position of recognition for Palestinian state, which is now the official position of, you know, many European governments, many Western liberal democratic allies of Israel, and that that's a diplomatic position.

51:46And he's saying, don't try and conflate that with appeasement of Hamas. But Benjamin Netanyahu is playing politics, I'm afraid. And it's a very difficult position for many Western governments who want to seem sympathetic and take this problem seriously, but don't want to fall into Netanyahu's vision of peace for the Middle East, because they don't believe that there is a way forward if you don't have a two-state solution, as the Australian Prime Minister just said. Let's move to Venezuela and the Trump administration's continued military campaign against the country. This week, President Trump issued a blockade against oil tankers traveling to or from Venezuela that face American sanctions.

52:23This comes a week after the U.S. seized an oil tanker off Venezuela's coast. The U.S. has also built up military forces in the region, repeating claims that Venezuela has robbed the U.S. of oil and natural resources. It is not clear on what basis the United States is making these claims. Here's President Trump speaking to reporters on Wednesday. There's just a little background noise in this. tape. You remember they took all of our energy rights. They took all of our oil from not that long ago. And we want it back. But they took it. They illegally took it. Michelle, what does the president mean when he says Venezuela has to return the oil that he says they took?

53:05Well, first, if we zoom out on that language, Nyla, it's sort of Trump speak for, you know, we're not going to let others take advantage of the U.S. anymore. I was on a number of issues, and this parallels what he talks about on trade. He says his predecessors in the office have done it all wrong, in some cases allowing our friends as well as our energies to take advantage of us. But in this case specifically, he's charged that Venezuela stole U.S. oil, and this really stems from decades-long developments where U.S. oil companies used to have a lot more presence and power in Venezuela, but over time that industry, of course, first was nationalized, and then more recently with the sanctions imposed on Venezuela and the high-risk environment there over the past several years, it's made it even more complicated for U.S.

53:45firms to operate there. So the U.S. seizure this month of a Venezuelan oil tanker marks another opportunity for Trump to claim that the U.S. is taking back its oil rightfully. So we'll see where this goes from here. But it is kind of typical Trump language around something where he's claiming a certain stealing that he wants to take action on. Nancy, what does the blockade of tankers look like? Not what the president announced. A blockade is an act of war. We haven't done a blockade since World War II. It's a total surrounding of a territory so that no ships can get in. What the president proposed is closer to quarantine.

54:26He didn't propose that every ship headed to Venezuela couldn't get in or out. He said those that were sanctioned, sanctioned oil tankers, would be restricted. He said during an interview with NBC that those ships would be confiscated. It's not clear if that's going to happen or they're going to be diverted.

54:44So you need a number of ships to do it. The last time the U.S. did anything close to it was during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And even then, President Kennedy referred to it as a quarantine to avoid the bellicose language that a blockade would suggest. And in that instance, the United States used over 100 ships. Right now, there are 11 to 12 ships in the region right now. And so it would be an act of war and one that would demand an incredible amount of military resources. What the president's proposing instead is those ships, about 40 percent of the tankers that are coming in and out of Venezuela are sanctioned that the U.S.

55:20would essentially. So think of it. They see a ship. Another vessel would pull over. The U.S. would go on Channel 16, which is the international channel for May Day. So it's constantly monitored. and they would say, we're getting ready to board your ship. And either through helicopters or a nearby ship, you would see U.S. military personnel and Coast Guardsmen board the ship. Once they determine its sanction, then take control of it. That's what he's proposing. That is not a blockade. But it is an escalation of U.S. military involvement in this conflict. David, Venezuela's government released a statement on Tuesday accusing Trump's military campaign of, quote, violating international law, free trade, and the principle of free navigation.

56:03How else have we seen Venezuela respond? So Venezuela has also said that it's the Venezuelan Navy might escort tankers into Venezuelan ports. You've got to be pretty skeptical that if that meant they were willing to have a fight with U.S. naval ships, that they would do that because we're nowhere near that. I mean, it's a messy legal question. As Michelle was pointing out, there have actually been some real court rulings and arbitration court rulings in favor of some of the big U.S. oil companies that had their stakes in big Venezuelan oil fields nationalized by the previous, the late Hugo Chavez, the dictator down in Venezuela.

56:39And, you know, you've had American courts and the U.S. Treasury saying that U.S. companies should be allowed to go after Venezuelan assets. Now, does that allow you to then start toppling, to try and topple the government in Venezuela? That's another whole question. And I think one of the things that's so hard about what's going on is we don't know whether this is about enforcing those oil arbitration rulings in a kind of particularly virile way, because that's Trump's style. Or is this about toppling the regime in Venezuela? Or is it just show? Is the idea that, you know, if you put enough force down there, the Venezuelan regime will topple because its own army may turn on the leader?

57:13And we just don't know where we are right now. It's once again, you know, a lot of noise and a lot of activity, but not much clarity. As you mentioned activity on Thursday, the U.S. military said it attacked two boats. It accused of smuggling drugs in the eastern Pacific Ocean. Five people were killed. This follows multiple strikes earlier this week. The U.S. killed eight people on three boats on Monday and four people in a single boat on Wednesday. As of Thursday, at least 104 people have been killed in 28 boat strikes. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth spoke to reporters on Tuesday about the release of footage from the highly scrutinized September 2nd boat strike, following a briefing to lawmakers about the military campaign in the Pacific Ocean.

57:58We're proud of what we're doing, able to lay it out very directly to these senators and soon to the House. But it's all classified. We can't talk about it now. We're also going to tomorrow allow the Hask and Sask to see the unedited video of the September 2nd, alongside with Admiral Bradley, who has done a fantastic job, has made all the right calls, and we're glad he'll be there to do it. But in keeping with longstanding Department of War policy, Department of Defense policy, of course, we're not going to release a top secret, full, unedited video of that to the general public. That September 2nd strike is the one that involved two strikes.

58:37First, the first strike, and then there were reportedly two survivors floating in the water and their second strike was ordered. Michelle, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have called for this footage to be released for this particular strike. What do you make of how the administration is resisting this? Well, I wish I knew more about it. Unfortunately, I have not seen the video. No one shared it or leaked it with me, certainly not the Secretary of War. But one reason that seems obvious for kind of resisting the release is that, you know, Hegseth very much wants to toe the line in Trump style of charging ahead without apology.

59:13And we've seen that time and again in how he's going about his business. So releasing the video at this point would likely look more like a concession to those who have criticized the actions taken both on that day and throughout these Venezuela operations. So I think we can read into that, that this is just kind of typical Hegseth and how he's conducted his office. But the other thing is, you know, I think he's looking at this and he's not wanting to, he's leaning on policy here, which is very interesting because he wasn't as careful, we should say, and of course, communications earlier this year about operations that were shared with an editor of Nancy's publication in a signal chat.

1:00:00So, I mean, I think we can have reason to be skeptical about the motive, but it certainly does point to this obvious tension that the Pentagon and the Trump administration more broadly is having with members of both sides of the aisle around how it's conducting business against Venezuela. Nancy, we did see this week Brazil's president, Luis Inacio Lula da Silva, and Mexican president Claudia Scheinbaum both calling for the UN to step in and prevent a conflict between the US and Venezuela. What role are we seeing the international community playing in trying to ease tensions? Well, these are the two biggest countries in the region that are speaking up and asking for dialogue.

1:00:39They both have the advantage that they have a relatively good rapport with the president. And in the case of Mexico, if the aim, as it was once stated, was to stop drug trafficking from entering the United States, Mexico is a key partner. And so they have influence in terms of policy towards the United States. I think they're primarily concerned about the day after and the second and third order effects if the United States were to go in militarily, particularly for a ground invasion and one that led to the fall of the Maduro regime. The challenge is I don't know how much dialogue is happening and how much it really stops the administration, which seems to be operating relatively unilaterally and positioning itself as sort of the leader of security in this region in this bid to sort of reshape itself as not the defender of sort of the rule-based order, but rather the leader of influence in this part of the world.

1:01:39What I think Mexico and Brazil were saying is, if that's how you're seeing things, that while you can be the leader, there needs to be engagement and involvement with other key members of this part of the world. Let's move now to a high-stakes summit. Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky called with EU leaders on Thursday. Leaders met in Brussels to discuss Ukrainian funding. Ukraine will run out of money next year without more financial support. Zelensky had wanted EU leaders to use up to$250 billion in frozen Russian assets to keep Ukraine financed. EU President Ursula von der Leyen said the leaders would not leave without a solution.

1:02:16We have one ultimate goal in this European Council, and that is peace for Ukraine. peaceful strength. And for that, Ukraine needs to have a secure funding for the next two years, the year 26 and 27. David, Ukraine did end up getting this money, but why did they decide against using those frozen Russian funds? So it's been a really interesting, very painful couple of weeks for the EU, because they have said that the money goes to Ukraine, not just because they want to help Ukraine, but because Ukraine's security is Europe's security. So when you have the biggest leaders in Europe, like the French and the German leaders, saying that this is about their own security, they are putting their reputations on the line.

1:03:01And you're right, they had targeted this money that Russia somehow didn't move out of Western bank accounts before it invaded Ukraine, which was one of the dumber things Vladimir Putin has done. So there's this 210 billion euros sitting in frozen assets. The problem is that it's unclear that you can't just take it. And so the idea had been to do this clever kind of using that to essentially be the collateral on a gigantic loan but it's sitting most of it in a bank a government a governmental bank in Belgium and Belgium was very concerned that it was going to get hit by Russia with retaliation and the Belgians have not played a heroic role here it has not been plucky little Belgium as we used to say in the 20th century they have been extremely selfish on this and they wanted guarantees from all other countries that Belgium would be made whole if they got attacked financially by the Russians so what they've now done is that money is still sitting frozen in mostly Belgian bank accounts, some French, and they're going to borrow against the budget of the European Union.

1:03:55And because that was unpopular with some of the governments, including, for example, Hungary, which is very pro-Russian, they had to do it with a majority vote. So that sounds like a failure for Europe. But I do think you can make a reasonable case that what we're actually seeing is a hard political reality, which is that there is a coalition that willing led by some pretty big countries that are willing to borrow their own money, their own taxpayers ultimately on the hook because they think that the alternative is worse, which is for Ukraine to run out of money, which it's about to do any time now.

1:04:24And they have offered a big chunk of money. It's only a year's worth of money. That money is frozen. Russia isn't going to get its hands on it. And the final twist for Europe, which is a very painful one, is that the American peace deal that is in some ways, you know, partly Russian drafted, talks of using that same frozen money but for a completely different purpose, for business investments that America will get to profit from. And so the Russians very clearly trying to dangle it in front of the Americans to divide the West, that why don't we use this money in a different way that makes lots and lots of money for America and American companies.

1:04:58And so I think they feel they've avoided a disaster, but clearly the divisions of Europe on display. Michelle, there are some more talks scheduled over the weekend. U.S. and Russian officials are set to talk in Miami while Ukrainian officials are headed to the U.S. What's top of mind there? Well, we can only guess, Nyla, that, you know, hopefully they'll make some headway on the two biggest sticking points that have long been the, you know, red lines for both sides, and that is on territorial sovereignty and security guarantees. So U.S. officials are going to be very busy in Miami this weekend and through the end of the year, actually, on multiple subjects, including Gaza.

1:05:36But on Russia-Ukraine, we've confirmed that U.S. Special Envoy Witkoff and Jared Kushner will meet with Russian officials down there, including Putin envoy Kirill Dmitriev. So these are very serious talks, and they're meant to gain traction on some of the discussions that these same U.S. officials had with Vladimir Zelensky in Berlin. So there has to be, you know, some... We are sensing some momentum here, even though it hasn't really been identified concretely. And at the same time, we hear from Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov earlier this week. He said we're on the verge of resolving a terrible crisis.

1:06:12But, you know, everyone is kind of sharing a little bit of skepticism because it's important to remember that, you know, these sticking points remain. And Putin himself has said, as recently as this week, that they'll achieve their goals, Russia will, through negotiation or military means. So the, you know, the attacks from both sides continue. And on Ukraine's side, we can only expect that, you know, those conversations will include Ukraine kind of showing some willingness to continue negotiating, wanting to stay on sides with Trump, but not giving in so far on some of the basic territorial claims that they say they're not going to give up to Putin.

1:06:52As we're talking about Ukraine, Russia, ceasefire talks in Miami, there's no talk of either side disarming. And German Chancellor Friedrich Mertz said this week, German troops could use military force against Russia if needed. David, Mertz says German troops could work within a coalition. What is the significance of Germany singling itself out here? Look, I mean, to state the obvious in Europe, any time a German leader starts talking about German troops being willing to take use force against the Russians, I mean, we haven't seen that since the Second World War. That used to be the taboo of taboos.

1:07:25But Friedrich Mertz has taken a really pretty tough position, complete shift from Germany's longstanding, pretty soft line on Russia. And he said very openly that if, and it's obviously a big if, there are NATO forces acting as security guarantors of some sort of demilitarized zone between the two warring parties, then they would take action against Russian incursions. And it's part of a fascinating story that Merz really, although he's very unpopular in many ways domestically in Germany, he has been pretty strongly a leader of a camp that says, if we don't act now against the advance of the Russian army, then when will we?

1:08:04I mean, he's a very, very clear leader at taking an extremely strong line for any German. And we're in this kind of weird, topsy-turvy world where the British and the French, who have, after all, fought many wars against the Germans, cheering on this tough stance from a German chancellor. I do want to save some time to talk about that new world order, David. But first, let's move to Gaza, where the aftermath of Storm Byron continues to wreak havoc on the lives of more than 2 million Palestinians taking shelter in tents. Last week, the Gaza Strip saw more than nine inches of rain. Tent cities flooded in, sewage is running in the streets, and at least 12 people, including a newborn baby, have died.

1:08:42On Thursday, the human rights organization Amnesty International said the devastation from torrential rain in the Gaza Strip was, quote, utterly preventable and was fueled by Israel's ongoing restrictions on the entry of critical supplies to repair vital infrastructure. Israel has denied the entry of AIM and blame Hamas for aid not reaching residents. This week, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio met Qatar's prime minister to discuss preserving the fragile Gaza ceasefire. This is what the Qatari prime minister told reporters in Washington. We stress the urgent need to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza unconditionally and to move immediately to the second phase of the agreement to end the war as delays and ceasefire violations endanger the entire process and place mediators in a difficult position.

1:09:33Any stabilization force in Gaza must protect the agreement itself, not favor one party over another, and this must be accompanied by the swift formation of a Palestinian civil administration. Nancy, at least 394 people have died in Gaza since the ceasefire on October 11th. That's according to Gaza's Ministry of Health. That brings the total death toll to more than 70 ,000 people. What impact could ceasefire violations have on this already fragile ceasefire? And as we are hearing from the Qataris about this idea of a civil administration in Gaza. You're right. Over 70 ,000, 20 ,000 of them children.

1:10:13And I think so many people thought that in October that the war had ended. And what had happened was a mostly reduction in the strikes. But as you note, they haven't been eliminated. And the real key issues, the thorny ones, the ones that are the hardest to reconcile, are now before us. And every day that the phase two of the deal, which deals with things like reconstruction, the international stabilization force, what governance looks like, puts an already precarious situation in even more danger because you don't know what could trigger the restarting of fighting, the reconstitution of the kinds of violence that we saw earlier in the year.

1:10:54And so you're hearing sort of a plea from the Qataris that we start to have those meaty conversations where we talk about the specifics of what this sort of post-war period looks like rather than what we have been experiencing for these past two months, which is sort of a stasis and not a real effort at resolution such that we can start to think about a post-war period rather than an interim period. Michelle, do we have any sense of what's planned for the meeting between Trump and Netanyahu, if that does indeed happen next week? Yeah, well, we're still, it's a developing story every day. And we did hear from Trump, I'm losing track of time, but earlier this week, in terms of what he wants to assemble later this month.

1:11:40Of course, from the Israeli side, we've heard Netanyahu himself and his office have said he'll be visiting December 29th. So that's still kind of floating as the potential date for him to be in the U.S. and meeting with Trump, respectively, and others. I think on the agenda, of course, is all the things that Nancy was running through, especially in the phase two. I mean, Netanyahu himself has said he's ready to move to phase two. Israel's ready to move to phase two. There are still a number of questions around how to kind of resolve some of the issues with phase one still being so fragile. But of course, the big questions being, you know, how do we assemble this Board of Peace?

1:12:18What will it do? What will the ISF troops be doing? And which countries will contribute? A number of them have expressed interest in pledging troops, but without a sort of concrete mission at this point. So a lot of questions to be answered and to be worked out. The one other thing I would mention that came into the forefront this week is Trump was asked about having Egypt's al-Sisi attend. And that seems to be something that the U.S. side especially wants to have happen in terms of a trilateral that will help kind of bring in one of the leading Arab partners on this to kind of negotiate and work out how the peace deal moves forward.

1:12:55David, I have a question for you. On Wednesday, the U.S. said it approved$11.1 billion in an arms sale package for Taiwan. Why this weapons package now? What reaction have we seen from Beijing? so Beijing is is extremely upset as you would expect it is actually the largest I think in in numerical terms in history and it's some serious stuff it is for example these truck-based missile launches the HIMARS that we saw used in Ukraine more than 80 of them and so it's part of that actually now many years of work by the Americans to turn the island of Taiwan into what they call a porcupine so that because its military is much smaller than that of the mainland to just basically make this mountainous island, which is across some pretty rough seas from China, impossible to invade, you know, without incredible pain for the invaders, the Chinese invaders.

1:13:44Why this is politically really important is because one of the big mysteries of the Trump administration, and particularly the second Trump administration, is that for all of his tough talk about China over the years, he's actually been extremely ambivalent about his support for Taiwan. Certainly, the idea that Taiwan is a democratic ally, as we know in the case of every other Democratic ally, doesn't really cut much mustard with Donald Trump. And so there's been a continuous fear in Taiwan that Donald Trump might actually just sell them out because he's much more interested in some sort of big, beautiful trade deal with China.

1:14:17So we now have this absolutely enormous package of weaponry for Taiwan. The Chinese are cross. Supporters in Congress, China hawks in Washington are relieved and happy. But we don't know whether this represents Donald Trump getting tough on China over Taiwan or the machine doing what the machine does and Donald Trump isn't paying attention enough to stop it. And that's been the story with Donald Trump's China policy since he first took office in 2017, that sometimes what looks like get tough China policy turns out not to be his policy so much as the kind of just the machinery of China hawkish power in Washington doing its thing.

1:14:54And so we don't know what this means either. But in Taiwan, they are relieved, although Taiwanese politics is in a desperate shape, and whether they can actually get the unity to pay for this stuff is another whole episode. Well, it is actually our last roundup of 2025. We wanted to take a few moments to reflect on some of the moments in news this year that you think had a massive impact on the current world order. Michelle, can I start with you? You pointed to Zelensky's first visit to the White House in February, just to remind everyone, Here's a bit of that exchange between President Trump, Vice President Vance, and President Zelensky.

1:15:31Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country? A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. Sure. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems. Even you. But you have nice ocean. And don't feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. God bless. You will not have a war. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem.

1:16:05Don't tell us what we're going to feel. I'm not telling you. Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. Michelle, how does that moment, that remarkable conversation, play into where we are today? Yeah, you know, Nyla, it's unsettling to hear it again because it has reverberated throughout the year. And I think it was shocking in the moment. And we didn't even have the clip there of J.D. Vance kind of interjecting, have you said thank you once to Zelensky? It's certainly a turnabout in the U.S. relationship with Ukraine and broader Europe.

1:16:44And I think I picked that moment because, you know, he did have, Zelensky did have something of a recovery in his second Oval Office meeting, which went much better from a very low bar. But, you know, saw the two sides kind of joking about Zelensky's attire and the fact that he wore a suit compared to the first time when he was in his kind of combat casual uniform that he often displays. So things got a little better in that sense. But throughout the year and through lines even to this month, we've seen this sort of attitude of the U.S. toward Europe and the huge pivot. And I would just mark one event last week being the national security strategy released showing this huge broadside against Europe in terms of trying to threaten it around civilizational decline and the like if it doesn't get its act together and really putting the pressure on Europe to take more of its own security matters into its own hands.

1:17:48and basically sending the message that the U.S. is not going to do the work for you anymore. So really a statement about the U.S.'s relationship with Europe changing to a drastic degree this year, and it kind of all traces back to that Oval Office meeting. David, before we get to yours, I do want to ask you about that meeting and how that sort of set the stage for all the other meetings that we saw between President Trump and foreign leaders over the year with their White House meetings. Well, look at that. You know, listeners will remember how European leaders flew to Washington as quickly as they could to try and see Trump, to kind of calm him down.

1:18:25We had European governments coaching President Zelensky of Ukraine how not to make Donald Trump angry. And nagging at the back of their minds for all of them was that it was much more than just one bad meeting, that what was really being revealed was that Donald Trump thinks, and as he has said several times, that Ukraine is a much smaller country than Russia, had no business trying to defend itself. And if you follow that logic far enough, you get to might makes right. And if you are a small European country that used to think of the Americans as your security guarantor, to have the American president suggesting that small countries do what big countries tell them to and have no cards and should have folded and should never have defended themselves, that was so much of a terrifying moment.

1:19:08You know, it makes me think of David's comments of sort of what I took away from this year, which was the real shift away from the rule-based order. I mean, I think 2025 was the year. Where it's going is not clear, but we saw two big trends, I felt like. We haven't been able to deal with two major humanitarian crises in Sudan and in Gaza, something that in the past I think the international community was able to rally at some point towards. We haven't seen a movement. And the U.S. would have led. Yes, and we haven't seen that kind of movement, which was surprising to me, and a move away from that order.

1:19:41and also this talk of now spheres of influence, that the U.S. wants to focus on the Western Hemisphere, but it hasn't answered what it means to allow the space for Russia to potentially have more influence in Europe, for China to have more influence in Asia. And so you could feel the move away from order as we knew it, but where it's going next, I don't know. And I think that'll be something I'll be looking for in 2026. David, as Nancy talks about China, you pointed to two moments when China threatened to cut off the supply of rare earths to the U.S., rare earth minerals first in April and then again in October.

1:20:18How did China deploying this tactic affect the globe? And maybe this is a really important story that may have flown under the radar for a lot of people. Yeah, so I should apologize. You know, I've chosen what sounds like a fantastically boring kind of my mind. Not when you say rare earth minerals. It's very, very dull. But here's the thing. If you were an American car company or making American weaponry or defense or any number of incredibly important technologies, without these rare earth minerals that China dominates the processing in some of these cases to sort of 85, 90 percent, they basically made Donald Trump blink.

1:20:54Remember at the beginning of the year, Donald Trump was going to come in and hit China with the biggest trade war that anyone had ever seen. At some points at the beginning of his presidency this time, the tariffs on China went up to 145 percent. Look, once you get to 145 percent, you're basically saying no trade with China. And these are two gigantic economies that do an astonishing amount of trade, like$2 billion worth of trade a day. And he basically was threatening to call that to a halt. China had carefully and patiently worked out that it could control and dominate the control of these minerals that an enormous number of companies in America worldwide need by threatening to cut them off.

1:21:31When I was in Beijing in March, and then again last month, officials and scholars told me absolutely matter-of-factly, Donald Trump backed down. We made him blink. Everyone else caved to his tariff threats. China pushed back really hard, and Donald Trump blinked. And he lowered the tariffs, and he started offering to sell them high-end chips. And I think from China's perspective, this is a big moment where China showed that it is becoming a peer competitor, and that it can stare down Donald Trump, the American bully. And I'm afraid, and I hope they're wrong. But for them, this is part of a much larger narrative about the West is in decline, and the East is rising, and China is rising.

1:22:10And Donald Trump, the populist, with all of the kind of the show and the entertainment that, you know, generates headlines in America, seen from China, it looks like decadence. It looks like a West that is so decadent and on its way out that it's hiring like this kind of showman to be their president. We will let that be our last thought for the year. Thank you, David Rennie, geopolitics editor and columnist at The Economist, Michelle Jamrisco, White House and National Security Editor at Bloomberg News, and Nancy Youssef, staff writer at The Atlantic, covering national security and the Defense Department.

1:22:44Thank you all for your time. We look forward to many more discussions with you in 2026. Mike Kidd is our sound designer and engineer. Chris Costato is our digital editor. John Ryan is our station relations manager. Maya Garg is our senior managing producer. Alexander Boti is our senior supervising producer. Aileen Humphreys is the editor and producer of 1A On Demand. And Barb Anguiano produces our podcast. Special thanks to Matthew Simonson for additional podcasts and on-demand support this week. This program comes to you from WAMU, part of American University in Washington, distributed by NPR.

1:23:19I'm Nyla Boodoo. Have a great weekend. Happy holidays. Happy New Year. We'll be back with all new shows in 2026. This is 1A.

1:23:30Thank you.