The News Roundup For July 11, 2025

25:05That was not the number that they thought they were discussing or agreeing to. Trump just dropped an announcement on the Mizar reporting and said, hey, the number's 20 percent. So even the deals he's announcing have a unilateral element to them. Zoe, what economic effect is this having? We saw previously what the tariffs had, what the economic effect it had. What about this week? What are we seeing? I mean, it's just such a complex answer, Naila. I mean, if we're going to talk about sort of the stock market, right? I mean, initially, the announcement, again, back in April, you know, stocks sort of tanked on the announcement.

25:40It was less because it feels like maybe there's less confusion not so much about like what the response or the consequences of the tariffs could be, right? Because it's just as everyone's been noting, it's so confusing, but it's still just really early days to be able to just economically answer, right? Like what have these tariffs meant so far because of economic indicators, there's lagging factors. It's only been a few months even again since April, and then there was this delay. So, I mean, you know, it's one thing to talk about sort of the stocks, and then it's another to talk about sort of what the broader economic implications are, which is still kind of a TBD.

26:26Let's head to a quick break here. We'll be back with more of the News Roundup in just a moment. Stay with us.

26:37News this week from the Internal Revenue Service, the agency will now allow churches to endorse candidates for political office without losing their tax-exempt status and a break from a more than 70-year tradition at the agency. Josh, we did a show recently on the separation of church and state, and this was a big question many listeners were asking about. Why is the Trump administration ending this practice? Trump has complained about this. In some ways, it's been a line that a lot of churches have walked right up to repeatedly. I've been with Trump when he's gone to do essentially campaign events at a church.

27:10Biden has visited churches in his campaigning. So this allows sort of an explicit endorsement from the pulpit in a way that was at least nominally interpreted to be against the rule until now. But, of course, we've seen ongoing conflation between sort of the culture war factor in American politics and, you know, religion sort of being aligned increasingly with one party or another, evangelical Christians in particular, of course, with the Republican Party. And so Trump has – this has been an issue for him. He's taken this step. And now we'll see sort of a further mingling of religion and politics.

27:46Let's talk about federal job cuts. On Tuesday, the Supreme Court ruled that Trump administration can continue its efforts to reshape the federal workforce by firing tens of thousands of employees. The ruling lifts a court order that was issued by a district judge in California in May, which had temporarily blocked large-scale federal layoffs. The State Department is expected to start layoffs as soon as today. State Department officials told CBS News they expect to cut around 1 ,800 jobs or 15 percent of its workforce. And the Department of Veteran Affairs says it will cut 30 ,000 people by the end of September.

28:22That's actually instead of the 80 ,000 it had announced earlier this year. Taylor, as we think about all of these layoffs, as we talk about State Department, federal workers and this ruling, can you just sort of talk about what the mood is in Washington and for federal workers across the country? Yeah, I mean, for people who don't live in the D.C. area, there is a large number of folks here who are federal workers whose families have worked in the federal government for years. And since January, when President Trump returned to office, especially when Elon Musk was leading the Department of Government Efficiency, all the doge cuts, the atmosphere was pretty grim because it was pretty often that people were finding out whether it was friends or family members were losing their jobs, being pushed out, usually not based on performance reviews.

29:09It was just kind of random because cuts needed to happen. What's been interesting in the last couple of weeks, we obviously have talked extensively in recent weeks about the president and Elon Musk having their very public falling out. But a lot of Doge's efforts are continuing in the administration. When I interviewed the Treasury Secretary earlier this week, he told me that even though he and Elon Musk personally clashed, that there were still some good things that Doge was trying to do and he was implementing those in Treasury. The Agriculture Secretary, Brooke Rollins, told my colleague Charlotte Scott the same exact thing.

29:38She said, as long as I'm in this position, we will continue to do doge cuts. And so that's why you're seeing these legal battles and then you're seeing subsequent cuts. And I think what was interesting about the Supreme Court's decision is that they made clear in their opinion that we're not weighing in right now on whether this reduction in force says it's called riff. And you hear people in the D.C. area say, oh, yeah, my friend got riffed last week. Yeah, people are doged or riffed. Yeah, doged or riffed. But the Supreme Court made a point to say we're not ruling on whether a reduction in force is legal or not.

30:11They were issuing an opinion on whether or not the president had the right to put out this executive order and basically attempt this. And they said, for now, yes. And so you're seeing the Trump administration say, you know, full steam ahead, we're doing this. But you pointed out the Department of Veterans Affairs. Democrats are declaring victory and saying the VA realized they can't push out multiple tens of thousands of employees. and they're going to scale it back because they provide essential services. So that's one example. But the cuts are still happening and it's impacting a lot of people.

30:39Josh, what kind of effects are we seeing on service right now with these cuts? I think it remains unclear. We don't yet know. But the reason the VA blowback existed is because, of course, that's sort of a political third rail. I should note this week also that they are continuing to try to find places to cut. And Trump's war on the Fed really escalated this week in part with Russ Vought and the OMB going after the Fed's renovation of its buildings and accusing them of mismanagement. Trump has gone really from calling on Jake Powell to reduce rates, and I'm sorry to go Fed and Bloomberg on you, to really rattling the institution from every angle with all his sort of the Trump world ecosystem.

31:22So it's not just confined to the direct federal workforce. The Fed is an independent agency. They're going for that as well. Trump remains interested in curbing these staffing numbers. Zoe, what do you think the longer-term implications of this? You were talking earlier in the hour just about as we're seeing sort of these sweeping changes across the federal government. What about when it comes to the federal workforce? Yeah, I mean this is this experiment that we just haven't seen in modern American history. And it's sort of these death by a thousand cuts in some respects, it feels like. And, you know, for years, I mean, and this is just such a longer discussion.

32:03There's so much more to get into, Nyla, about just sort of these fundamental things that work in the government that aren't super flashy, that you don't hear about in the headlines until there's a problem. And it's why, you know, going back to the top of the hour is we're talking about just horrific flooding that, you know, happened in Texas and just the massive amounts of problems that happened to get to the situation as it was last week. People go and say, well, did it have to do with staffing cuts at the National Weather Service, right? It's the same as we've talked about on the Friday News Roundup for many weeks, right, about what was happening at the FAA and what was happening at Newark and what you're cutting.

32:42And so it's, you know, this, as I said, grand experiment that much like tariffs sort of like in the moment is hard to see the consequences of. But give weeks or months later, it's going to have implications and consequences. Zoe, let me ask you, let me add another layer on then as we're talking about just sort of short term and as you're saying this experiment. We saw this week a federal judge temporarily blocking the Trump administration from restricting Medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood. The funding change is part of the GOP's sweeping tax and spending package that Trump signed into law over the holiday weekend.

33:18This temporary restraining order is only set to last two weeks. So I'm just reminded of a conversation. We spoke with Democratic Senator Alyssa Slotkin last week about Planned Parenthood's financial situation across Michigan and the closures we saw of clinics even before these rulings. And I just want to ask you about the implications of this as we're talking about – we've talked a lot about Medicaid, but in this particular case for Planned Parenthood. Sure, Planned Parenthood. Of course, when you're talking about Planned Parenthood and it goes to reproductive freedom and access for abortions, but we just have to note also the amount of medical services and cancer screenings and things like that that Planned Parenthood offers folks, including here in Michigan.

34:01Our health reporter, Kate Wells, has just continued to report on the fact of closures. And, you know, we should note, right, like it's not just closures in a state where access is available. But then, you know, folks go to states right now where access is available, where clinics and Planned Parenthoods have shut down post-Dobbs decisions. So, again, I mean, it's absolutely something that we're seeing the consequences of. And it's not just, again, about abortion. It's about medical care for folks and often folks who have access, inability to get access in other places. One more public health headline before we turn to another political story.

34:44This week, the U.S. hit nearly 1 ,300 reported measles cases so far this year. It's the highest total in 33 years. That's according to data for the Centers for Disease Control. Cases have been confirmed in 38 states. Texas accounts for the largest share of this year's infections with more than 750 cases. Three people have died in the outbreak, including two otherwise healthy children. To put that in context, three people in the U.S. died from measles between 2001 and 2024. That's according to the CDC. OK, now let's turn to a story that's been dividing the conservative right. On Monday, the Justice Department and the FBI released a memo following a review of the Jeffrey Epstein files.

35:27Epstein was a disgraced financier, convicted sex offender. The memo states the FBI found no evidence of, quote, an incriminating contact list. It also restates that Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide. Some of the president's most loyal supporters are still questioning these findings, including right-wing activist Laura Loomer. Here's what President Trump had to say about it this week. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking, we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable.

36:09Josh, many people are still talking about Jeffrey Epstein. Many of the president's supporters are still talking about Jeffrey Epstein. I have not seen an issue sort of divide the MAGA movement since Trump came back to office like this one. Many of his supporters frankly feel betrayed. Trump leaned heavily into this issue, as did many of his allies, including the vice president, including Donald Trump Jr., who believed that there was a cover-up, that there was sort of a group of elites who were part of this abuse ring led by Epstein. and that the documents were being withheld to preserve the names of the powerful.

36:45And this really fed in to not only the sort of conspiracy theory type sympathetic fringe of the party, but just a broader one that wanted to release this, including many people that Trump has put in very significant positions in this government. And they just haven't. And, of course, Democrats will also point to questions about Trump himself and how well he knew Epstein because they're, of course, for photos of Trump and Epstein. So there's just like a lot of factors swirling here. But it has been just a lightning bolt into the MAGA movement, some of whom think that they were sold a bill of goods, that they were promised these files and they haven't been given them.

37:32And now Pan Bandy's taking heat. Kash Patel is taking heat. People are wondering what gives. So we're seeing rifts among Trump supporters over multiple issues here. His new immigration policy proposals, including what he's calling a work program, which would spare some migrant workers from deportations. There's his promise to send more weapons to Ukraine. We saw an outcry over the decision to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. There's a list, you know, the list of supporters who are becoming frustrated with the president. We've seen, of course, Elon Musk taking to X over the weekend to announce plans to fund a third political party.

38:10Taylor, how significant are these rifts that we're seeing within the GOP, particularly among the president's base as we're talking about all of these issues? They're definitely notable. You know, the president reentered the White House in January and had, you know, accomplished this historic political comeback after kind of being pushed away from the entire Republican Party when he left office and refused to acknowledge his 2020 loss. And he kind of, you know, rebirthed himself as the kingmaker of the party. So he came in and the whole party was feeling great in January and in February. Honeymoon's over, huh?

38:46It seems that way, but at least right now, as we've talked all hour, you know, the Trump White House just moves at a ridiculously fast pace. And what is a gigantic story this week or today could be forgotten about in 48 hours because something else will happen. But I think what's notable, all the all the topics that you listed for those of us who were on the campaign trail last year, you know, a Trump rally hit on a very similar list of topics anywhere he went in the country. And his supporters lapped it up. They loved it. And something like people told me constantly out of the hundreds of Trump supporters that I interviewed, they said, we don't want to be involved in any more overseas conflicts, no more foreign wars.

39:25You know, this is all about kind of isolationist protectionism. And that's why people are frustrated with with Russia and Ukraine with immigration. That was, you know, Trump's winning issue is like immigration in the economy. And now you have all these farmers who were supportive of him saying, oh, my gosh, I'm losing my workforce that I've relied on because ICE is coming and conducting immigration enforcement operations that's taking away folks who have relied on for 10, 15 years. And the president has really struggled to respond to that. At some point, he says, oh, we're going to have a carve out and a worker program.

39:54And then the next day he sends his agriculture secretary out and says we will not be giving amnesty to anybody. AI will play a role and, you know, getting people back to work will play a role. So I think what you're seeing is a level of Trump is a really good salesman, especially on the campaign trail. And people knew kind of his bullet point list of goals and things he wanted to accomplish. He's been able to do a lot of that over the last couple of months. But some of the key areas where he campaigned really hard on where he's fallen short, the base is now saying, wait a second. You promised us that the Russia-Ukraine war would end on day one.

40:28You promised us that the Epstein client list existed. you invited a bunch of your top influencers to the White House and Pam Bondi, the attorney general, handed them binders that they came out and held up before the cameras. Those people feel embarrassed now. And there's frustration just saying, wait, what's changing? But there's a difference between campaigning and being in the White House and having to run all of these things and dealing with kind of a global environment. And even for President Trump in a second term, that's a lot more disciplined. I think you're seeing some of that tension.

40:54We are almost to the end of the hour, if you can believe it happened very quickly. Zoe, I just want to give you the last word here in terms of your final thoughts, what we've missed so far that we haven't talked about in the hour. Well, I can tell you looking ahead what I think not just, you know, everyone in D.C. is going to be watching for, but those of us in public media, is whether or not the Senate will take a rescission package. This is the more than$9 billion clawback of federal funding that would be for programs like USAID, but also a billion dollars for the Corporation of Public Broadcasting, which, of course, helps to support programs like 1A and WAMU and Michigan Public and NPR and all the things that you hear over the airwaves.

41:39And so we'll be watching for that vote in the U.S. Senate next week. Thanks to our expert panel, Zoe Clark, political director for Michigan Public, co-host of the It's Just Politics podcast, Josh Wingrove, White House reporter with Bloomberg News, and Taylor Popplars, national political reporter for Spectrum News based at the White House. Thank you all for joining us. We're going to head to a quick break. We'll be back with more of the News Roundup in just a moment. Stay with us.

42:09All right, let's turn now to the global edition of the News Roundup. With us today to guide us through the big stories across the globe this week, Joyce Cottom, Senior News Editor at El Monitor, author of the China Middle East newsletter. Good to have you, Joyce. Great to be with you, Naila. Nancy Youssef, newly minted staff writer at The Atlantic covering national security and the Defense Department. Nancy, welcome back. Thank you so much. Great to be with you. And Nick Schifrin, foreign affairs and defense correspondent at PBS NewsHour. Hi, Nick. Thanks very much for having me back. Let's start in Washington with another visit from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to the White House.

42:45Trump and Netanyahu met for the third time this year. Their meetings kicked off with this moment. I want to present to you, Mr. President, the letter I sent to the Nobel Prize Committee. It's nominating you for the Peace Prize, which is well-deserved, and you should get it. Thank you very much. This I didn't know. Well, thank you very much. Coming from you in particular, this is very meaningful. Thank you very much, Bebe. Nancy, let's go beyond this headline with this move from Netanyahu. Of course, there's flattery, but cynics would say there's more. Prior to this visit, the U.S. president was reportedly keen to announce a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas this week.

43:29What do you think was behind this move by the Israeli prime minister? Well, Netanyahu is nothing if not a political survivor. And I think what we've seen through past visits between foreign leaders and the president is that he responds very well to flattery. I was reminded watching that of Keir Starmer presenting a very special letter from King Charles during his visit with the president. The irony is that he needs, the president needs Netanyahu to sign off on a peace deal to get this Nobel Peace Prize as he sees it. And we didn't see signs of that this week. While the president had hoped to reach a deal and said so at the beginning of the week, Netanyahu left quietly Thursday without sealing the deal.

44:11And so I think it's fair to ask whether that gesture bought time. You didn't hear the president criticizing Netanyahu for not delivering his long-sought deal. And one can't help but wonder if that overture by Netanyahu bought him some political capital with the president. Joyce, there hasn't been much readout on the talks between the two leaders. Where do the sticking points, what are they? Can you remind us between Israel and Hamas? Yes, of course. So the good news coming from the White House is we've seen two back-to-back meetings. between the president and Netanyahu. That indicates there has been some movement on the ceasefire talks, particularly we know from Israeli and U.S.

45:04sources that there has been movement on the issue of reconstruction. As you know, Nayla, the Qataris were also in town. They met with White House officials. And Israel, for the first time, has indicated that, according to YNAD, that they would accept Qatari role in sending funds in reconstruction of Gaza. So that's progress. Now on everything else, this is really becoming like Groundhog Day. I mean, every week we hear it's going to be next week, no, the next week, the week after. So we haven't seen major progress on the sticking issues, and those are ending the war. So while Netanyahu might agree to a 60-day deal, he doesn't want a full cessation of hostilities.

45:59So that's one. The other one, you know, the control of the corridor that splits north and southern Gaza. The Israelis don't want to leave that corridor because they're worried Hamas would come back to the north. So that's another sticking issue. The third issue, and that's a critical one, you know, who would be released from the 10 hostages that we know about and who in exchange would be from the Palestinian side. When you speak to Hamas, when you speak to the Palestinians, they're less optimistic than what we're hearing from the Trump administration. Now, mind you, there is chatter that Woodcoff could go to Qatar in the next couple of days for talks.

46:53If we see that happen, that means there is real progress. But if it doesn't, that means we're still at the same block that we were in the last few weeks. And more pressure is recommended by the U.S. government on Israel, on Netanyahu particularly, to move the needle toward ending the war and not just another 60-day pause. Right. So to that, yeah, Joyce, to that point of pressure, I just want to ask, at the White House, Benjamin Netanyahu was asked by journalists if the relocation plan for Palestinians in Gaza was still being discussed. Here's what he had to say. I think President Trump had a brilliant vision.

47:35It's called free choice. You know, if people want to stay, they can stay. But if they want to leave, they should be able to leave. It shouldn't be a prison. It should be an open place and give people a free choice. We're working with the United States very closely about finding countries that will seek to realize what they always say, that they want to give the Palestinians a better future. and those who, and I think we're getting close to finding several countries, and I think this will give, again, the freedom to choose. Palestinians should have it. Nick, there was also progress on Gaza at a different negotiating table, this one on aid flow into the Gaza Strip.

48:22The U.S.-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation announced on Wednesday it will begin distributing aid directly to people in Gaza through so-called community representatives. in addition to operating its existing centers. What can you tell us about this distribution change? Will it be enough to get food into the hands of those people who most desperately need it? I think the Ghazi Humanitarian Foundation is trying to create a better system. They acknowledge that not only has the media attention been so overwhelmingly negative, but the fact is that, you know, according to people who have worked for the organization who I've talked to, they know that the many, many of their boxes are not getting to families, not getting to women, elderly, children, and that most of the military-age males who are picking up the boxes are taking multiple boxes and very well may have connections to Hamas themselves, which is, of course, exactly what Israel, the U.S., and GHF, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, claims they are trying to prevent.

49:23And so they know they have problems and they're trying to improve them. But it is wrapped up in what you've been discussing because the ceasefire text, which, according to the people I talked to, actually has quite a lot agreed upon, short of the map of Israeli presence after the ceasefire, during the ceasefire. But the text specifically allows for a surge of humanitarian aid to the United Nations and does not mention the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. And that is a way for Israel and for the United States to continue GHF, which again, they see as a way to take away what Israeli officials believe is how Hamas is perpetuated, which is stealing aid, using aid and food as payments for new fighters, but also taking the food, selling the food, and then using that for payments for new fighters.

50:21And so that's what Israel and the U.S. see. Of course, the international humanitarian community sees 600-plus dead outside of GHF sites and a bit of a humanitarian disaster on top of the crisis that exists because, of course, GHF is only distributing food and not all of the other things that Palestinians in Gaza need. This week, the U.S. government sanctioned Francesca Albanese, the United Nations special rapporteur for Palestine. The move means that any assets Albanese has in the U.S. will be frozen and that her ability to travel to America will likely be restricted. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the Italian lawyer had launched, quote, political and economic warfare against the United States and Israel.

51:06Albanese has been vocal about what she has described as the, quote, genocide by Israel against Palestinians in Gaza. Both Israel and the U.S. have denied that accusation. Across the pond, the French president Emmanuel Macron arrived in the U.K. for the first state visit by a European leader since Brexit. In a speech to the Houses of Parliament, Macron said this. And this is why the solution of the two states and the recognition of the state of Palestine is as well, according to me, the only way to build peace and stability for all in the whole region. Nancy, in the past, Macron has spoken of a moral duty and a political requirement to recognize a Palestinian state.

51:49How significant were these remarks? So on one hand, it was an advancement of this position and potentially will have other European countries come on board. We're sort of in a cycle where the longer the war goes on, the harder it is to get towards a two-state solution. So he was putting that back on the table as the hopes of that have diminished over the course of the war. However, until the war ends and we deal with these very key crises happening, some of which we've talked about already, there's no prospect of a two-state solution. So I think the challenge is, will France take actions such that there can be real concrete progress towards this two-state solution and that the wars aren't just sort of aspirational but short of actually moving towards a real outcome?

52:44Let's touch on one more moment of the Israeli prime minister's Benjamin Netanyahu's visit with this comment he made about Iran at the Pentagon. I will say that President Trump and I always talk about peace through strength. First comes strength, then comes the peace. And we hope we realize the fruits of strength very soon in peace. Nick Netanyahu also said that military strikes on Iran will have historic consequences for peace. Is Israel preparing for the possibility of further military action? Do we know if Iran tries to revive its nuclear program? A senior Israeli military, sorry, a senior Israeli official, not a military, a political official, told a group of journalists this week that, yes, Israel would absolutely attack Iran if it saw Iran taking steps to reconstitute its program.

53:40The official left ambiguous, of course, what it means to reconstitute this program and what steps the Israelis have taken would take. But I think it's clear publicly both President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu have declared an interest in maintaining what they believe is the current status of Iran's nuclear program. The same senior Israeli official admitted that Iran could get access to some of the highly enriched uranium. That 60 % enriched uranium, 90 % is weapons grade, so 60 % is seen as just a small step toward weapons grade. The official admitted that, yes, Israel believed that Iran could get some of that material, basically nuclear fuel, but that Israel would see it, that the United States would see it.

54:28And so this debate about, you know, how many months or how many years the program's been set back, it's something that intelligence analysts, you know, rack their brains trying to figure out. But at the bottom line, it's almost unknowable because, you know, the variables include whether Israel and the United States would strike again, include how many Iranian scientists are left to do the work and whether they would be willing to do the work at all and other variables. And so the U.S. and Israel definitely believe that they've bought a number of years of a setback program. But more importantly, I think they believe that they've set the precedent so that if Iran starts again, Israel and the United States would strike again.

55:11If the United States is led by Donald Trump or J.D. Vance, who also said that he would strike if he were president. So I think that's where the confidence that you hear from Israeli officials but also U.S. officials come from. This week, Iranian President Masoud Pazeshkian sat down with Tucker Carlson for a wide-ranging 30-minute interview. The Iranian president said his country remained open to talks with the U.S., but that it was difficult to trust Washington. Joyce, Iran and the U.S. were poised for their sixth round of nuclear negotiations mediated by Amman when Israel started the campaign, this military campaign last month.

55:47What's the status of these talks right now? well Naila first off the Pizakshian interview with Tucker Carlson was very smart messaging on part of the Iranians they're talking to the loudest isolationist MAGA or maybe now former MAGA TV personality Twitter personality whatever we want to call him and they're trying to push this narrative of victimhood, this narrative of Israel is trying to drag the U.S. into a war, all are talking points that resonate with the MAGA base that didn't want to do anything with this war. On the diplomatic side, the Iranian message is, yes, we want to talk, but it's not going to be, it might not be soon as Trump is saying.

56:42They basically are looking for guarantees that, to Nick's point, that Israel won't strike anytime soon or during the talks before returning to the table. The main issue in all of this is we still don't know the extent of the damage from the strikes. Reports this week in New York Times, NBC, that some of Iran's enriched uranium survived that tax. So where is the program? How much it was delayed? Does Israel feel an urgency to hit again soon? The Iranian position we know hasn't changed either on the issue of enrichment, on the issue of keeping that enrichment on Iranian soil, on the issue of sanctions.

57:31So these all have to be figured out before a return to the table. Right. And to your point, Joyce, this week Iran's president warned the International Atomic Energy Agency, or IAEA, to abandon its, quote, double standards if it hopes to restore cooperation over the country's nuclear program. The U.N. nuclear watchdog has not condemned the U.S. strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities. Nancy, why is this impasse between Tehran and the IAEA an obstacle to stability in the region? Because they were the key monitors of the weapons program. It allowed Iran to say that they were sort of part of the international community's mechanisms for monitoring their program.

58:15And what was interesting in that Tucker Carlson interview is that the president suggested that through the inspections that actually the U.S. and Israel were able to learn about their program, that they actually had sort of sabotaged Iran. And so once there's sort of an erosion of trust in terms of established organizations designed to monitor these programs, it makes it harder going forward to have objective eyes saying they are not in fact resuming their program. And so it opens the space for ambiguity and potentially future attacks on the supposition that there aren't eyes there watching what they're doing because they're not allowed back into the country.

58:57Let's stay in the region, but let's shift to relationships between Syria and the U.S. This week, the State Department announced it will revoke the foreign terrorist designation for the HTS group whose leader, Ahmad al-Shara, is now the president of Syria. HTS has been designated as a foreign terrorist group since 2018. Nick, unfathomable this move only a few years ago, but maybe anticipated after the warm feelings President Trump has expressed about al-Shara. What do you anticipate this change in U.S. relationships with Damascus actually means for the region? Yeah, it is just it's I mean, for anyone who follows this region, you know, I was looking at video of Al-Ghalani, as we used to call him, just yesterday to prepare a piece.

59:43And it wasn't that long ago that he looked very different than he does today as the president of Syria. So anyway, we all know that story. So this is this is a step that that Syria believes is in the right direction. Right. So the president obviously announced he was lifting sanctions, met al-Shara in Saudi Arabia. And so his officials started doing the hard work and basically realized they could only go so far. And that was to lift a series of executive orders that the United States has imposed on Syria or about Syria sanctions for decades. They left a few pieces of leverage there. One was this designation of a terrorist group of Hayat-Tir al-Sham, of HTS, which al-Sharah was the former head, which disbanded months ago or officially disbanded months ago.

1:00:32So this lifting of the HTS designation does help in terms of certain logistics on the road. But it is just a step. The next step that Syria is hoping for is the removal of its designation of the state sponsor of terrorism, the SSDO designation. That would presumably come again, the U.S. withholding a little bit of leverage. And then the big one will be Congress repealing the Caesar Act. And only Congress can do that. That is a permanent end of the series of— Do we know how likely that is, Nick? It's likely. I mean, President Trump has basically declared this is where we're going. So, you know, it'll get through it.

1:01:11I don't know congressional leaders are telling me that it's imminent. But yes, I think the expectation is that that will happen at some point. And then that unlocks what President Trump has talked about, what al-Shara has told a lot of people about, some kind of detente, if you will. Call it a status of forces agreement between Syria and Israel, perhaps announced as early as the U.N. General Assembly in September. And that would essentially be a level of peace between Syria and Israel, far short of a, quote, Abraham Accord that the president's been talking about. But still, again, the road to normalized relations between Syria and Israel is where this is headed.

1:01:49And, of course, al-Shara and Syria, desperate need of infrastructure investment, overall economic investment. And this unlocks some of that. That's Nick Schifrin from PBS NewsHour. We're also with Al Monitor's Joyce Karam and The Atlantic's Nancy Youssef. Let's move on to Ukraine. Last week, the Pentagon froze weapon shipments to the country, but there was confusion about exactly who made that decision. Here's what President Trump told a reporter on Wednesday. Sir, yesterday you said that you were not sure who ordered the munitions halted to Ukraine. Have you since been able to figure that out?

1:02:25Well, I haven't thought about it because we're looking at Ukraine right now and munitions, but I have no, I have not gone into it. But what does it say that such a big decision could be made inside your government without you knowing? I would know. If a decision was made, I will know. I'll be the first to know. In fact, most likely I'd give the order, but I haven't done that yet. Nancy, can you explain what's going on here? Do we know who gave the order to stop the shipment? I'll try. So just indulging me in some background. So the U.S. has been regularly sending weapons shipments to Ukraine. These were actually approved by the Biden administration.

1:03:07And so we were in sort of the last batch of those this summer when reports emerged that there had been a pause in shipment. One of these shipments that included things like Patriot missiles and Hellfire missiles, really critical assets to Ukraine. And the Pentagon acknowledged a pause, but then we started hearing conflictive reports about how much was paused and who did the pause. The White House officials sort of pointed the finger at the number three at the Pentagon, Bridge Colby, but it was Hegseth who apparently signed the order. And even today at the Pentagon, it's not clear what happened with that pause, which is why you heard some of the questions that you played earlier today.

1:03:48So to your point, you would think the president would know. And the reason given for this was that the U.S. was dipping too much into its own stockpiles of weapons. And so we still don't have clarity. Either way, it creates a lot of political and logistical and military instability in Ukraine because when we promise weapons shipments and they don't come through, They have to adjust their battlefield planning at a time when we're seeing a huge uptick in drone attacks, complex drone attacks by Russia on the capital and other parts of the country. And so we haven't quite sorted out the details of that shipment.

1:04:30There was an announcement a few days later that some defensive weapons would be going to Ukraine. But again, we didn't get specifics. And last night, the president told NBC that he was going to be sending weapons soon, suggesting there'll be an announcement next week. The implication was that the Trump administration now plans to do what it hadn't planned to do in the past, which was follow in the Biden administration's footsteps and put in some sort of shipments plan going forward. Up until this point, we had thought that once the weapons promised by the Biden administration ended, there would be no more weapons going through.

1:05:11The president suggesting last night that, in fact, he would have his own shipments to Ukraine. But again, what they look like, how long, and what this does to U.S. stockpiles is still not clear. Meanwhile, it seems like Trump is losing patience with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here's a comment from a cabinet meeting on Thursday. We get a lot of **** thrown at us by Putin, for you want to know the truth. He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless. Joyce, what's behind this shift in tone towards Russia, and have we heard any response from the Kremlin? I mean, this is the harshest we've heard from Trump about Putin, and it's sort of natural that we got here.

1:05:53You know, finally, the administration is realizing it's been played for over six months now. You know, more than five meetings between Witkoff and Putin, all the friendly talk, and nothing has changed in Ukraine. In fact, as Nancy mentioned, the Russian aggression has become even more intensified. Russia has turned to China, others to recover economically. The sanctions never come. So maybe we are at a point, just maybe, that Trump is really losing patience. How would we know? There is a bill that has more than 86 sponsors at the Senate, bipartisan bill for sanctions. And that's waiting for the president's approval to impose those sanctions.

1:06:47As you know, Rubio Lavrov meeting, maybe that's the final straw to see if we see any change in Russian behavior. But it's been really one strike after another, one meeting between Saudi, Turkey after another, and we haven't seen any change from the Russian side. In fact, you know, the drone attacks, the missile attacks have just become much more intense. And the administration, it's not a good look. It's not a good look. Nevertheless, the tone itself, what we're hearing now from the White House is reassuring for Zelensky, for the Ukrainians, for the Europeans. But they want to see more. They want to see sanctions imposed on the Kremlin.

1:07:35Let's talk about trade wars. On Wednesday, Trump threatened to hit Brazil with a 50 percent tariff, the highest on entering countries so far. Nancy, what's behind this move? Well, what was interesting is the reason he gave for it. It wasn't because he wanted something produced here more. He said it was because of the witch hunt, referring to Bolsonaro's trial for his attempt to hold on to power after Brazil's 2022 election. He said that it was because of a trade deficit, but actually there's a trade surplus, a$6.8 billion one between Brazil and the United States. And so the reasons were different.

1:08:15It was leveraging tariffs to seek outcomes that the president wants to see. And what was interesting to me about it is this is not the first time that the president has been outspoken about seeing leaders, like-minded leaders, facing political trials. He has been outspoken about Netanyahu's trial and about Le Pen and France's trial for embezzlement. And so it's an interesting pattern where he sees it as witch hunts. He often likens it to the trials that he has faced. But this was the first time he saw it sort of leveraged by way of tariffs. There were some sightings of economics as a factor, but the facts that he gave don't line up with what's actually happening.

1:09:00And so it was an interesting use of presidential power and tariffs relating it to political issues, not just some of the efforts to reach a better trade balance. Joyce? So totally, definitely what Nancy mentioned, Trump sounded very angry at Brazil over the Bolsonaro trial. But there is another layer for this, and that's the BRICS summit. This seems to have pushed Trump's language to a different level. I mean, the Bolsonaro trial has been going on for a while. So he's using that as the fig leaf to lash out at Brazil. But really, it's the summit that Lula hosted and that ended on Monday for the BRICS.

1:09:53The BRICS, Naila, you know, mainly Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. And it was a big show in Rio. So the fact that he sees this as a geopolitical defiance by Lula, he sees efforts at the BRICS expanded now, including UAE, Egypt, Iran, that this is a challenge for the U.S., especially when it comes to de-dollarization efforts on the global scale. So his language was focused on Bolsonaro, but if you just scratch below the surface, this is really about a bigger competition that he sees happening against Brazil, which is the second largest, U.S. is the second largest trading partner for Brazil.

1:10:50So if he imposes these tariffs, it would be damaging both ways. The other interesting part is Lula is really not having any of it. So when we saw Trump trying to intervene in Netanyahu trial in Israel, the response was sort of, we'll see what to do about it. With this, you know, Lula's response came only hours after. And he's saying, you know, Brazil is a sovereign nation and our judiciary is independent. And, you know, we're not going to take orders from an outside nation. As we think about all of these tariffs, Nick, this week, 22 countries announced against the United States. What are we hearing on the global scene in terms of reactions to this kind of re-upping of the trade war?

1:11:39Sometimes some of these tariffs announced with countries that I thought the U.S. was negotiating with on deals. Very much during negotiations. We've seen that with Canada, with the European Union, the president being willing to essentially interrupt or throw a proverbial grenade into the negotiations. And with Canada, at least the first one, not last night, but the first one a week and a half ago, just basically ending the negotiations, led to Canada giving up a digital tax on American tech companies who work in Canada. So, you know, it has had some success. And what you guys have been saying, to me, you know, does strike this larger theme of two.

1:12:20One, the president essentially throwing out the predictability, not that there was a lot of predictability in this system before, quote unquote, Liberation Day. But in recent weeks, it's very unpredictable and much more unpredictable even than it was a few weeks ago. and obviously that's the system that the president wants. But two, this is a real moment, I think, for us to take stock. You know, sanctions for many years have been the U.S.'s tool of choice, short of military action over the last 25 years, that has been to influence countries' behavior. A lot of critics of sanctions. The president believes that the tool of choice is a tariff.

1:13:00And, you know, we were talking about the Russia, we call it a sanctions bill, but it's actually a tariff bill in some ways. when it comes to the penalties on China and India. But the president sees the tariff, both the threat and the reality, as one of the ways for the United States to get countries to change their behavior toward American interests. And I think only history will show whether it's worked or not, but it's a real moment of how America yields its power or at least the tools it uses to do so. Well, it's in the hour moving to Africa and the African continent. On Wednesday, President Trump hosted five leaders from African nations, including Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mauritania, and Senegal.

1:13:42It comes after the U.S. has pulled much of its humanitarian assistance from the continent. Trump emphasized a new policy in Africa saying, quote, we're shifting from aid to trade. But as Trump discussed possible economic investments, four of the nation's largest democracies were notably not invited. Nancy, Nigeria, South Africa, Ethiopia, Ghana, not in the room. What do we know about why some African leaders were invited and some were not? Well, we don't quite understand why the list of five were. You mentioned that the four that weren't invited are some of the largest democracies. They also have some of the largest GDPs on the continent.

1:14:21They're in the top 10 of the 50 plus nations on the African continent. South Africa, for example, you could imagine, given the tensions that we've seen between those two countries, that might be an explanation. Ghana's president was quite critical. after that meeting and called it an insult to Africans? Was that a factor in the decision? It's not clear. But if the goal is truly trade, and specifically minerals trade, you would think that some of these nations, particularly Nigeria and others, would be part of this conversation. And so it's not clear why those countries are invited. But I think if you're looking at the countries that weren't invited, that they are seen as sort of having some sort of personal conflict with the president or one where there has been a real demonstrative tension between the United States and those countries, particularly in the case of Ghana and South Africa and Nigeria.

1:15:20A little less clear, and I would say Ethiopia as well. One comment by President Trump towards Liberian President Joseph Boakai raised eyebrows. We want to work with the United States in peace and security within the region because we are committed to that. And we just want to thank you so much for this opportunity. Well, thank you. It's such good English. It's beautiful. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully? Were you educated where? In Liberia. That's very interesting. It's beautiful English. One Liberian diplomat told CNN, quote, it was a bit condescending to an African president who's from an English-speaking nation.

1:16:05Liberia has been hit hard by the dismantling of the USAID. It was one of the first countries to receive USAID funding in 1961. The country relies heavily on foreign aid for its health systems and education, among other sectors. Joyce, I know you write the China Middle East briefing newsletter, but I want to ask you about China's influence in the region, particularly as we're seeing the U.S. pull back, what we're seeing from the Chinese now as we're talking about different African nations? Of course, and that brings me to Nancy's point. I mean, the fact that Egypt was also not on the table is, you know, this is one of the largest countries in Africa as well.

1:16:48So the thinking behind the White House is, oh, we want to pivot from A to making this commercial, to making this about business, to making this about deals, mineral deals with Congo, to get the mineral rights in Congo. So that's a very limited scope when you want to discuss U.S. interests in Africa. And when you want to discuss even countering Chinese influence in Africa, I mean— Because to your point, Joyce, China has been doing that for how long in Africa? For at least for two decades now, it has been Africa's largest trading partner. They've helped so much in infrastructure development, lending and debt, security.

1:17:37they don't do as much aid as the U.S. did, but they're doing more on investment. They're doing more on immigration. So the interesting thing here is, you know, when President Trump slaps a travel ban on 12 countries, including some in Africa, China is opening some visa-free agreements with these countries. So it's an odd way of trying to appeal to Africa when you're aid policies, when you're immigration policies, when you talk to the president of Liberia in such a way, when you tell another president in their room to go faster and you don't have time to listen to the whole thing. And when you bake, you know, a half summit with major countries that are not on the table.

1:18:33So this is an approach that we're seeing in other ways too, where the administration is trying, you know, to have the cake and eat it too. But it's just, it's not going to be enough to counter Chinese influence, whether it's in Africa, Latin America, or other spheres. We just have a few minutes left, so I'm just going to ask you to be brief, but to peek into your reporter's notebook, what you're watching ahead for next week. Nancy, let's start with you. Well, I'll mention what we sort of already talked about, which is the potential future U.S. weapons shipments to Ukraine, what they look like, because I think once we see that list, we have a sense of how the war could go for Ukraine.

1:19:12So I'm interested in the details that come up next week's promised announcement. Nick? I think we're going to get a gathering in Aspen of a lot of military and foreign leaders, and so we'll see what the mood is about the Trump administration during that security forum, and we'll get a sense of how much tariffs really are affecting especially some of the views from Asia. Joyce? Yeah, I'm very jealous that Nick gets to go to Aspen while we're stuck in a hot and muggy D.C., but I'm looking at, you know, we mentioned Shara and Israel, the president of Syria. There is a lot of chatter that he might actually meet Benjamin Netanyahu in September in New York for some sort of arrangement, security arrangement between Israel and Syria.

1:20:04So we're tracking that story. Of course, anything that happens with Iran talks and yeah, Wimbledon. That's right. Oh, thank you, Joyce. I'm glad you remembered. We will talk about Wimbledon and the key matches that are happening today in the finals this weekend for the championships. ships. Let's though end this journey around the world in news. In Thailand, where the face that launched a million memes, Ms. Mu Dang, is celebrating her first birthday, thousands of fans have flocked to her enclosure from around the world in Southern Thailand this week, including Molly Swindle, who came from New York to celebrate Mu Dang.

1:20:43Here she is speaking to the Today Show. I love Mu Dang so much. I think she brought so much joy to people, and I think she's kind of an outlet and escape, which is a lot of pressure for a baby hippo. And for those of you living under a large hippopotamus and may not be familiar with who she is, Mudang is a pygmy hippo who rose to viral fame shortly after she was born last year. Her name roughly translates to bouncy pork. The pygmy hippo blissfully celebrated her birthday with some snacks, a hose down, a nap, and a 44-pound cake. Happy birthday, Mudang. A big thank you to our panelists today for their analysis and insight.

1:21:21Joyce Gottam, senior news editor at El Monitor, author of the China Middle East newsletter. Nancy Youssef, staff writer at The Atlantic, covering national security in the Defense Department. And Nick Schifrin, foreign affairs and defense correspondent at PBS NewsHour. Mike Kidd is our sound designer and engineer. Chris Castano is our digital editor. Maya Garg is our senior managing producer. And Alexandra Bote is our senior supervising producer. Amanda Williams is our special projects editor. Aileen Humphreys is the editor and producer of 1A On Demand, and Barb Anguiano produces our podcast. Special thanks to Matthew Simonson and Arfi Getty for additional podcast and on-demand support this week.

1:22:01This program comes to you from WAMU, part of American University in Washington, distributed by NPR. I'm Naila Boodoo. Let's talk more soon. This is 1A.

1:22:19Thank you.