The News Roundup For September 26, 2025

25:37I don't want to speculate about that, but listeners have that question. And here's the defense secretary, Wendy, kind of putting out there jokey tweets about that very question. Well, I have absolutely – I'll just be frank. I have absolutely no idea what this meeting is about. I have absolutely no idea whether it is about a loyalty oath. That does seem so beyond the pale that I find it hard to imagine, although with this administration, you know, who knows at this point? It is unusual to pull combatant commanders away from their regions, especially with so many wars and uncertainty going on around the world.

26:20To pull them into Quantico is quite a, for what we don't know, is quite a step. I would also hope that the generals that I've met, the admirals that I've met, put their faith first in the United States Constitution and not in the individual. And if that is the case, they would refuse to do so. One speculation is that it could relate to the possible government shutdown next week, which does affect the military. It affects soldier pay. So just putting out that. You can do that on Zoom, though. No idea what the meeting is. It's the largest bureaucracy in the world, so any big thing they do is— And the reason it's getting so much attention is because Hegseth has approached this job differently from his predecessors, relating to how the Pentagon interacts with the media, to how he's been reported to say to people, I'm submitting you to a polygraph if you're disagreeing with me or if I suspect that you're leaking.

27:10A backdrop of, I mean, top military brass from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs on down, fired, often without cause. I mean, there are tens and dozens of examples of top officers, flag officers who've been fired by this defense secretary. So questions about what he's up to here aren't off base. No, his own inner circle from the initial months of this administration were pushed out and have gone on the record questioning his own leadership. So that's why the story is getting more attention. One more thing from the Pentagon before we head to a break here, Arthur. Also news this week that there's a deadline for reporters at the Pentagon, that they have to agree not to report any information that isn't vetted, certainly that isn't unclassified and information that isn't approved essentially by the Pentagon to keep their press credentials.

27:55What's going on? Well, they sent this out to reporters on Friday. I was a Pentagon correspondent, received it. I don't know that anyone would sign it. It's getting a lot of pushback. Presumably organizations will sue, but it's just another measure of how they're trying to tighten control around the message and the influencer who's leading that agency. We have to take another quick break. Lots more to come here on The Roundup. Stay with us.

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30:09threatened affiliates, Nextar, which owns ABC affiliates, and ABC itself, to do something about Kimmel, or they might have business before his regulatory agency. Well, as I said, Jimmy Kimmel was back on the air on Tuesday, although not on every station across America. The president of the United States made it very clear he wants to see me and the hundreds of people who work here fired from our jobs. Our leader celebrates Americans losing their livelihoods because he can't take a joke. Taylor, what do we know about why Jimmy Kimmel was allowed back on the air and why he remains off of, I think, over 70 stations at Nexstar and Sinclair Broadcasting?

30:53Yeah, the continued ban, if you will, I think it's about 20 percent of the TV market that Kimmel was normally appearing. And what's striking is that his viewership numbers on traditional TV have been through the roof three or four times the normal amount, despite that fact. 6.3 million viewers on broadcast, despite the boycotts for his return episode. We also have to say, as of last night, 21 million views for his opening monologue on YouTube. Censorship doesn't pay, Taylor. Well, and we all watch, you know, get our information out differently and on our phones and everything. I think what's been interesting to see is that Brendan Carr, for a long time.

31:29He has a long documented history, especially online. So many of these administration officials are very online people and they have a good paper trail there where you could document it. But even during President Joe Biden's presidency, Brendan Carr was talking about the importance of political satire being protected as free speech, the importance of government not weighing in in those matters. And now he's fully defending what happened with Kimmel and why the Trump administration was pursuing it. Kimmel and his legal team met with ABC executives, Disney executives, and they ultimately decided that he was going to get brought back on.

32:00But now you have these affiliate services, Sinclair Broadcasting and Nexstar, they've continued to hedge on it. And they're saying, we don't feel comfortable bringing it back yet. We're continuing to talk with Disney, with Kimmel's team to figure out what will happen moving forward. But it's a reminder that these affiliate services do have a say in what they end up airing or not. And some of them, like Sinclair, are pretty politically right. And they're trying to align with what Brendan Carr has been putting fun. Wendy, what was your take from the intersection of politics, censorship, media, and comedy here as Jimmy Kimmel came back on the air?

32:34Well, obviously, I feel the same way that Taylor, and I'm sure Arthur, and you do about censorship and about government threatening stations. But as I think Taylor suggested, there is a bottom line question here. And that Disney or a lot of these companies, Paramount, Spectrum, Nextar, are all in merger discussions that require FCC approval and government approval from other agencies. And the notion of upsetting the FCC at a time when you're trying to make a business decision is making these companies forget first that they are information centers, that their job is to promote and dispense free speech in the United States.

33:22And they're thinking only about how the business will be better because of that. We got this message from Pam who says, has anyone noticed that between the United Nations, Jimmy Kimmel, Venezuela, Comey, Trump has successfully managed to keep Epstein out of the news for the past seven to 10 days. We'll let Pam's observation stand because I want to move to Congress where a shutdown, a government shutdown, which in any other era would have been the top of the show, not sort of the bottom of the show. We don't prioritize topics in order necessarily of importance. This is real important. But the point stands.

34:00A government shutdown is going to happen in the next couple of days. And a lot of other stuff has gotten in front of it, which is really remarkable. Lawmakers have until September 30th to pass a bill to continue to fund the government as part of President Trump's pressure campaign on congressional Democrats. Now, the White House is threatening mass firings of government workers. Now, Arthur, these firings would be on top of the layoffs, firings and forced retirements of thousands of federal workers that happened in the early months of the Trump administration. What agencies in particular and what do we know about this latest threat from the White House?

34:37It's not just that there would be firings on top of the usual furloughs where people get their jobs back. It's that the memo from the budget director, Russ Faut, says that the people targeted for firings would be those working for programs that do not align with the president's priorities. So it's an explicit political threat to fire people in parts of the government that Trump doesn't like. It's unprecedented, and it was intended to intimidate Democrats. They are not intimidated by it. They were very angry in response. There was one Republican at the Capitol this week, and reporters asked him about it.

35:17I was there, Bernie Moreno, Senator from Ohio, and he said, well, it wouldn't be immediate. We'd have to go for those cuts if the shutdown is prolonged. And that's really not what the memo says. I think it's an indication of Republicans not necessarily really liking this move a whole lot. Wendy, in past government shutdowns, and I've covered my share, as you know, like Democrats and Republicans at times have made demands outside of the corners of budget talks. Democrats at one point said reinstate DACA for DREAMers. That was their demand to avoid a shutdown or repeal the Affordable Care Act. That's a demand that Republicans made.

35:58But this is going outside the entire process. Don't, you know, give us our way on the budget or we'll hurt a bunch of people who aren't involved at all. I mean, that's the message coming from the White House. How unusual is this threat? Like anything in Trump's second term, it's all, we need more synonyms for unprecedented here. I mean, as you said, there is usually a give and take. In this case, in the shutdown, you know, as you said, it would be at the top of the show, and I would have spent all week studying every little detail of this to figure out what it is the Democrats want, what the Republicans want, and how they're giving and taking.

36:35There is no give and take this time. The Democrats have said their ask is a trillion dollars to restore Obamacare subsidies and other public health cuts that were in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. The Republicans have said no, and if you don't cave, we're going to fire thousands of federal workers who might be Democratic voters or might not be. And so the Democrats are left with, do we go for the shutdown and try to win the messaging war against Trump, which is something they do not have a great record on of winning the messaging wars. And so Trump will blame them if these people lose their jobs and the Democrats don't want to face caving into this, which their base really doesn't want them to do.

37:19That's why Newsom's pushback has been so popular, because Democrats are longing for someone to push back against Trump. Yeah, Democrats, Taylor, seem to want to be seen fighting for something. They do. It was back in March that Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer faced a lot of criticism for leading the effort to fund the government and prevent a shutdown. He was worried about doge cuts at the time. But I want to remind people in President Trump's first term, he oversaw what became the longest government shutdown. It was a partial shutdown, lasted over 30 days. Trump is not afraid of a shutdown.

37:51He embraces that, especially if, as Wendy pointed out, he could point the finger at Democrats, even though Republicans are in power. Shutdowns are chaos, Arthur. There will be another Senate vote on the House-passed bill before this shutdown is supposed to start next week. And we haven't heard from every Democrat. The Democratic leaders are doing the talking, and they need seven or eight of them to prevent this shutdown from happening. So it looks like it's going to happen, but we'll see. If seven or eight Democrats cross over in that final vote, this could all be averted in addition to Chuck Schumer's authority to lead his caucus.

38:24So we'll all be watching that very closely. There's some very, very important health news that came out of the White House this week that we have to make sure we talk about. It confused a lot of people, parents, medical agencies, and medical organizations of doctors in a bizarre joint press conference. Rife with disinformation affecting millions of people, President Trump and RFK Jr., the HHS secretary, announced what they said was new data linking the common painkiller acetaminophen, the active ingredient in Tylenol, with autism. Now, the FDA is going to update Tylenol labels with a warning for pregnant women, despite issuing a letter alongside it to doctors on Monday that said Tylenol is not known to cause autism.

39:13Now, the president at this press conference said a lot. He said women shouldn't take Tylenol at all. He said they should talk to their doctor. He said they should decide for themselves. He said he was basing all of this advice on, quote, how I feel. He said children receive too many vaccines. Wendy, how is the medical community responding to all of what I just said and more? With confusion and shock and disappointment. I mean, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists have said you should not pay any attention to this. Tylenol is safe for pregnant women to take. It is the only painkiller or acetaminophen, I should say, is the only painkiller that pregnant women can safely take.

39:56And being the only person on this panel who's been pregnant, I will tell you, it is a lifeline. It is, I presume, it is a lifeline. And fevers when you're pregnant can be very, very dangerous to the baby. much more dangerous than the possible risks that Trump went even further than any autism risk. Taylor, the president just posted to social media on this topic, let's not spread disinformation. Very briefly, just give us a gist of what he's currently saying. He's essentially reiterating what he outlined in that press conference, this message of don't take Tylenol if you're pregnant, separating childhood vaccines because he's claiming that taking them all in one fell swoop is not good.

40:43Very much a truncated version of what he talked about in that press conference, but he just posted about it. All without expertise, all without evidence. Well, let's turn to immigration now because there was major immigration news this week. The administration putting a$100 ,000 price tag on H-1B visa applications. Now, H-1B visas are the ones that allow U.S. employers to hire foreign professionals to fill certain jobs. They're often in highly skilled jobs, medicine, often in tech where engineers come from overseas to study and work in the United States. Now, the change is scheduled to go into effect on Sunday.

41:20Taylor, what reason did the White House give for this change? So there was a press conference, I believe it was last Friday, in the Oval Office where President Trump stood by the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick and unveiled this. And I urge people to go listen to what Lutnick talked about, because he said a lot. Some of it had to be walked back in terms of whether or not this$100 ,000 fee would be recharged every year. The White House then walked that back, but he explicitly said it. But in no uncertain terms, he said the goal of this is to push foreigners out so that Americans can take the jobs that these foreigners are occupying.

41:54And he said if a company wants to pay to keep somebody who's not American in the country to do a job. They're now going to have to pay this additional$100 ,000 fee. He said if the company is willing to give that job to an American who is here, they will save the money. They will be able to support an American. So it's just a very explicit relation to this Trump administration's immigration policy. And alongside that in this new rule, this is important. There's an exemption to hiring workers if it's, quote, in the national interest and does not pose a threat to the security or welfare of the United States.

42:28Now, a lot of people noticed that that exemption gives Donald Trump the power over big companies applying for H-1Bs and the ability to decide who gets them and who doesn't. Arthur, what's the risk here? Well, what you're implying is that it's corrupt and he'll use it to bully companies into doing things he wants. He says, I'll exempt you from this two-kava bag fee if you're doing things for me. And it's consistent with everything he's done where he pulls levers of power that impose penalties on companies. But he has the leeway to lift the penalty. One example is suing CBS for a lot of money while they're negotiating, while their parent company is negotiating a merger deal in front of the FCC.

43:18CBS settled that private lawsuit, paid Donald Trump$16 million, and now they're getting their merger. That's one example of why the dynamic with H-1B visas might be problematic. We have just a little more time before we shift to the international headlines. Time for our reporter's notebook. Briefly, Wendy, what are you looking at here that we should be watching out for? Shutdown. Yeah. What? Yeah. Shutdown. When's the deadline? Tuesday. And one more vote before Tuesday, as Arthur says. Taylor, what about you? Comey and the Justice Department fall out. The former FBI director is set to surrender on October 9th.

43:56This is a story that's going to remain in the news, and it's going to be interesting to see if there will be other pressure campaigns from the president who is already repeating that he thinks more people should be charged. Adam Schiff, Letitia James, many others on the president's enemy list will be watching out for that. Arthur, what about you? I'll be at the Capitol for the shutdown. You're on shutdown watch. it's a 20 pizza extravaganza when the pizzas start to flow into the Capitol. Maybe there's late nights or maybe not. Maybe this just barrels toward a shutdown here. The posture is no pizza right now.

44:25No, no negotiation. No pizza for Capitol Hill staff or the Capitol Hill press corps. And that's when you know it's dang serious. It's serious because thousands of people's jobs are at stake as well. And we're going to be following that story from here inside Washington for the whole country. I want to thank our expert panel, Arthur Delaney, senior reporter for HuffPost, Wendy Benjaminson, senior Washington editor for Bloomberg News, and Taylor Poplar, national political reporter at the White House for Spectrum News. Don't go anywhere. We've still got all of the global news to round up right after this.

45:01This message comes from NPR sponsor, 1Password. Anyone else feel like 99 % of your emails and texts are password reset codes? Trusted by millions of users and over 175 ,000 businesses, 1Password lets you skip the resets and sign in securely with strong, unique passwords that autofill across all your devices. You can safely share logins, store cards and files, and finally stop using your pet's name as a password. Try it free for two weeks at 1Password.com slash NPR. are. Let's shift now to the international edition of our news roundup. We'll get right to it with Greg Karlstrom, Middle East correspondent with The Economist.

45:44Great to have you, Greg. Good to be here again. Michelle Jamrisco is here. She's White House and National Security Editor at Bloomberg News. Hi, Michelle. Hi. Thanks for having me. Also in the studio, James Kitfield, Senior Fellow at the Center for the Study of the Presidency in Congress and the author of In the Company of Heroes, the inspiring stories of Medal of Honor recipients from America's longest wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. James, great to have you, as always. All right, let's start in New York. The United Nations General Assembly underway this week. This year's theme, Better Together 80 Years and More for Peace, Development, and Human Rights.

46:23That's a mouthful, but here's the question. Is that slogan any closer to reality? On the agenda, the war in Gaza and Palestinian statehood, climate change, artificial intelligence, war in Ukraine, and global food crises. Now, President Trump came to New York to list his own accomplishments, to spread misinformation about his own record and the reality of climate change and other problems, and at times to ridicule and berate other countries. He did say that the UN has, quote, tremendous, tremendous potential, but... It's not even coming close to living up to that potential. For the most part, at least for now, all they seem to do is write a really strongly worded letter and then never follow that letter up.

47:08It's empty words and empty words don't solve war. We're going to get into a lot of the details from the U.N. General Assembly this week. But, James, before we get too far into that, let's let's just ponder this question for a moment. Is the U.N. fit for purpose in the 21st century? No, it's not. The three most powerful members of the UN Security Council was where the rubber hits the road in terms of avoiding and stopping wars. Basically reject the rules-based international order, which was established with our leadership after World War II, that the UN was basically founded on. They don't believe in it.

47:45You know, Russia is trying to reestablish its empire in Europe. China, once a hegemonic sphere of influence in the Pacific, which is absolutely contradictory to the UN's founding document. And the populist president of the United States rejects the sort of whole global negotiation stance that the UN stands for. What is ironic about President Trump saying, well, it hasn't solved any wars. I mean, what has he done to help the UN solve any wars? Well, the U.S. has pulled back funding from the United Nations and from individual U.N. agencies, pulled the United States out of treaties, including Paris Climate Accords and the World Health Organization.

48:29Can the U.N. survive a second Trump administration with any significance, James? I happen to think it will survive, but it'll be diminished, and it's already in need of reform. The UN Security Council, for instance, reflects a post-World War II power structure of five permanent members with a veto power that no longer makes any sense in a very multiple world. So it needs reform, but it's not going to get reform from just being defunded. Well, as is tradition at the General Assembly, Brazil took the podium first, followed by the United States. Here's a little bit more of Trump's address to the General Assembly made without the aid of a teleprompter he had to read from a speech book.

49:10All I got from the United Nations was an escalator that on the way up stopped right in the middle and then a teleprompter that didn't work. These are the two things I got from the United Nations, a bad escalator and a bad teleprompter. We might revisit the escalator story and how that went down in the media later if we have time. But in his nearly hour-long speech, filled with false claims and contradictions, the president boasted how it was him and not the U.N. that had settled conflicts. He touted peace while warning drug cartels that he would blow them out of existence. He was referring to three strikes, fatal strikes, by the United States military on alleged Venezuelan drug boats in the Caribbean.

49:55Michelle Jamarisco, what did you make of the president's speech? Well, I thought it was certainly in line with his going on offense in his second term. It was very aggressive and essentially trying to compromise two things here. He's the self-branded president of peace, as he likes to say. He's touted, as you say, ending wars. He says he claims to have ended seven wars and also criticized the UN for not helping him in doing so. But that claim is false, we should say. He has not ended seven wars. Right. And I think the participants in those conflicts themselves have had, you know, issues with that characterization.

50:32But then also he's, you know, it kind of goes back to his whole peace through strength mantra. He's, of course, as you said, talking about the Venezuelan gunboats and talking about how he's going to sort of project the U.S. superpower strength on the world while also trying to resolve the conflicts where he can. So it was very much, you know, the epitome of sort of Trumpism and transactional diplomacy while trying to also at the same time ironically address a global body that is all about multilateralism. So outside and inside, Greg Kallstrom, because while after being on the stage ridiculing individual countries, debasing the U.N., pulling funding out of the U.N.

51:11and all the rest of it, Trump also said this. I am so behind it, meaning the U.N., because the potential for peace at this institution is great. And Trump met with the secretary general after his speech, and he vowed that our country is behind the United Nations 100 percent. What do you make of the difference here between outside and inside, the differing messages when Trump is on the dais versus when he's meeting with officials? I think I had an art teacher once who wrote shows potential on my report card, and it took me a while to realize that meant don't become an artist. Like, think about a different career.

51:46I mean, I think Trump saying that, it's interesting more broadly. You think about the Republican criticism of the UN or the conservative criticism of the UN in Washington. And you go back 20 or 30 years, you had very strident critics, people like John Bolton, who were genuinely angry at the UN, who saw it as a hostile actor, but a meaningful actor on the global stage. And Republicans, even the ones who were critical of the UN, engaged with it in a serious way. And I think the shift in rhetoric, the shift in criticism to this almost patronizing, pitying, you know, you have potential, but you just need to work a little harder.

52:23I think it tells you how irrelevant the U.N. has become. And that's for reasons, as James said, not just to do with Trump, but to do with shifting global balances of power and to do with, I think, missteps that the U.N. has made itself. It's become so irrelevant that it's not even worth beating up on if you're a Republican at this point. Now, the president also went on several tirades against immigration, calling on the European countries to emulate the United States and close their borders and expel migrants. He accused the U.N. of leading a globalist migration agenda. I'm the president of the United States, but I worry about Europe.

52:59I love Europe. I love the people of Europe. And I hate to see it being devastated by energy and immigration. This double-tailed monster destroys everything in its wake, and they cannot let that happen any longer. You're doing it because you want to be nice, you want to be politically correct, and you're destroying your heritage. They must take control strongly and immediately of the unmitigated immigration disaster and the fake energy catastrophe. Before it's too late, it's time to end the failed experiment of open borders. You have to end it now. I can tell you. I'm really good at this stuff.

53:40Your countries are going to hell. Now, a fact check. Contrary to what the president claimed in his speech, the United Nations is not paying for migrants to enter the United States illegally. And you heard there he also singled out Europeans over migration. Now, in its September fact sheet on migration published on Tuesday, the European Commission reported that according to data by Frontex, irregular crossings of external EU borders went down in 2024 by 25 percent compared to the previous year. The relationship between Europe and the Trump administration is a complicated one, James. That's my euphemism of the day.

54:20It's complicated. How are these comments received? Not well, but so Europe has struggled mightily with influx of immigration just as the United States has. And they and Trump and especially Vice President Vance have found common cause with a lot of these populist right-wing parties that have risen in popularity in Europe, in Germany, in Hungary, in Italy, that basically rode the immigration issue to power. So they are speaking to a part of Europe, the right-wing populist part of Europe, that is becoming much more powerful in the last decade. But they're not speaking to the Europe as a whole. Europe has taken a lot of steps to try, as you mentioned, try to get its immigration under control.

55:05Trump also went after climate change, in some cases the very idea of it. And, Michelle, Europe and the United States through President Trump are not on the same page when it comes to climate. What's behind these attacks on clean energy that we just heard from the president? Well, certainly I think he's, again, kind of replicating for a global audience what he's kind of executed and talked about domestically. So he's speaking to his MAGA core base just as much as he's speaking to the foreign leaders in that room. But, yes, certainly he's gone off on windmills, you know, repeatedly, including in this latest address to UNGA.

55:42And he's talked about where he thinks other countries are going the wrong way on climate, specifically to your point, as well as immigration and other issues. And so you can be forgiven for looking at the irony here as the White House is touting the speech as championing sovereignty and rejecting globalism. But that's all while the president is giving orders to these foreign leaders. Well, the U.N. General Assembly, we should say, is not just about what happens on the stage or in the big General Assembly auditorium. It's also about what happens on the streets of New York, apparently. And in this case, it was the French president, Emmanuel Macron, blocked from crossing a street for a VIP motorcade.

56:20So the French president called up the VIP. How are you? Guess what? I'm awaiting the street because everything is frozen for you. Emmanuel Macron phoning Donald Trump on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly. He apparently took the opportunity to keep chatting and to request a meeting with the president on Gaza. That's what was on Macron's mind. That's what was on France's mind. On Monday, France and Saudi Arabia hosted a summit focused on Gaza and a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict. The United States was not present for this summit. Here's French President Emmanuel Macron addressing the United Nations.

57:05Le temps est venu. The time has come. This is why, true to the historic commitment of my country to the Middle East, to peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians, this is why I declare that today France recognizes the state of Palestine.

57:33Greg, this was part two of a conference held earlier this summer. Here's France recognizing a Palestinian state. France is not alone. Many other countries also taking this action. What's the effect now on this move from France and other Western nations? I think the immediate effect of it is symbolic more than anything else. Now, when I have suggested that to European diplomats over the past few weeks, some of them have told me, you're wrong, there are substantive implications here. by recognizing Palestine, you know, our countries will have certain obligations to then get tougher on Israel in the future if it continues to prevent the emergence of a Palestinian state.

58:20But I think the key words there may have an obligation in the future. It's about what these countries are going to do going forward. Are they just recognizing Palestine right now to satisfy a domestic constituency that's very angry about the war in Gaza? Or are they going to take punitive measures? Are they going to consider sanctions against Israel, for example, if it refuses to re-engage in peace talks with the Palestinians? I mean, the view, certainly for both Israelis and Palestinians, that I've spoken to recently is that they see this as symbolism, they see this as more of the same rhetorical show of support for the Palestinians, but something that hasn't yet translated to any more concrete or tangible steps.

59:05Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was blocked from attending the General Assembly, couldn't get a U.S. visa to come to New York, addressed the General Assembly via video link over comlink there. Now, the U.N. Secretary General, Antonio Gutierrez, also said statehood for the Palestinians is a right, not a reward. And that appeared to push back against the Israeli government, Greg, which says that recognizing statehood rewards Hamas after its October 7th massacre. Does this galvanize support for an actual two-state solution in any meaningful way beyond the potential symbolism that you're describing?

59:46I think that the irony, the sad irony of this moment is there is international support right now for a two-state solution in a way that arguably there hasn't been for many years. The last round of peace talks was more than a decade ago under the Obama administration, and there hasn't really been a serious push to revive any kind of peace process since then. Now you have not the Americans leading the way, but European countries, Arab countries trying to take their own initiative and put this back onto the world stage. And they've done that, but they've done that at a time when both Israelis and Palestinians are losing faith in the two-state solution.

1:00:25You look at any recent poll, most Israelis do not believe in it anymore. They do not think Israel can coexist alongside a Palestinian state. Most Palestinians believe they are not going to get a state. Many of them no longer want a two-state solution. They want some other resolution to the conflict. So at a time when France and Saudi Arabia have put this back on the global agenda, the parties to the conflict themselves are despairing of this as a possible solution. Michel, the president of Spain, I noticed, answered the charge that recognition of Palestinian statehood now, though symbolic, rewards Hamas for their aggression on October 7th.

1:01:05And he said, look, it actually does the opposite because what we're doing empowers the Palestinian authority and marginalizes Hamas. That was his response. It actually could be a policy that means something. Is that Europe's aim here? And what about Israel's charge here that this is just a reward? Well, I think it's hard to put one aim on the number of countries that have kind of come aboard of this policy. But I think in general, it must be something a little bit shorter term than that. I think what the Spanish leader was talking about is a few steps further in the process than where we're at right now.

1:01:43I think the basic move is a political one, and as Greg was talking about, mainly to speak to this groundswell of support for the Gazan people and what do you do about it. Inside the countries themselves. Right, and the increasing frustration with how Israel has conducted this war. And you'll see similar, even if the numbers are lower, you'll see similar sentiments developing here in the United States, which I'm sure we will talk about in the future here on 1A. Well, on Friday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he spoke at the U.N. General Assembly. In the minutes leading up to his speech, dozens of delegates left the hall.

1:02:19That's not new. But Netanyahu said he had this message for the leaders of nations that recognize a Palestinian state this week at the U.N. Murdering Jews pays off. Well, I have a message for these leaders. when the most savage terrorists on earth are effusively praising your decision, you didn't do something right. You did something wrong, horribly wrong. Your disgraceful decision will encourage terrorism against Jews and against innocent people everywhere. It will be a mark of shame on all of you. James, what pressure is Netanyahu under here with his international audience, but also with the families of the 20 hostages believed to still be alive within the Gaza Strip.

1:03:10He's under a lot of pressure from all sides, from the hostage families, from the international community. And remarkably to me, and I think we should give credit where it's due, the Trump administration this week on the sideline of the UNGA actually proposed a 21-point plan that makes a whole lot of sense. And it's not something that Netanyahu is going to easily sign up to. Just a couple of the points of that plan. permanent cease file, gradual Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, post-war plan for governing mechanism in Gaza without Hamas, which Netanyahu has ignored a day-after plan from the very beginning of this war, a security force that's made up of Arab countries who helped rebuild it.

1:03:51I mean, this is a plan. This is actually something you can negotiate and talk around. And believe me, when Netanyahu meets with President Trump on Monday, that's going to be a very interesting conversation because he's going to reject a lot of this. I mean, that is the – speaking from the U.S. perspective, that's the plan all along that people of substance were talking about and hungry for while they were reading tweets about, you know, golden resorts on the Gaza Strip and a wonderful, wonderful real estate development. That's exactly right. I mean, there is – this question is – so what do you think is ethnically cleanse millions of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and also maybe annex the West Bank as the government has suggested they want to do?

1:04:32This is a real plan, and I give the Trump administration credit. Those are talking points you can actually have a real discussion around. And your prediction, clearly, Netanyahu will reject these. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think he will reject a lot of part of this. He doesn't even want to withdraw Israeli forces from Gaza, much less set up an Arab and Palestinian governing mechanism without Hamas. He's rejected that so far. Let's see. But he's feeling pretty isolated now. So this is a really good time to have this discussion with him. And that's, to me, the impact of France and UK and all these other countries basically recognizing a Palestinian state.

1:05:10The future of Israel as an isolated country is becoming clearer and clearer. And I think this is a way out of that. And I'm hoping that the Israeli body politic understands that. Well, on the ground in Gaza, residents reacted to recognition of their right to statehood by various Western countries at the UNN before. Here's Wafa Alwan speaking to Al Jazeera. As a Palestinian living in Gaza, I hope this step will bring meaningful change and help end the genocide. We have waited a long time for this recognition. Palestine deserves to be acknowledged, and our people deserve the right to live a normal life.

1:05:46Well, as part of the recognition, France and Saudi Arabia have advanced a phased plan, which was a reformed Palestinian authority that would eventually govern the West Bank and Gaza with international assistance. This was a key point. The prime minister of Spain made it clear, as I said earlier to Michelle, this is not a reward for Hamas. It marginalizes Hamas. Greg, is the Palestinian authority in any shape to take on the task that the rest of the Western world seems to have in mind for it? I think it depends on what we mean by governance, by what task exactly it's given. Do I think that it's in a position to come into Gaza after the war and play some role in overseeing reconstruction, in managing civil affairs in Gaza?

1:06:37Yes, I think it can do that. I think it's going to need, obviously, billions and billions of dollars of aid from donor countries who will probably be primarily the Gulf Arab states. But I think the PA can play a role there. Do I think it's ready to fully take over security responsibilities in Gaza? I think that's a much harder sell. It hasn't had a presence in Gaza for almost 20 years since Hamas threw it out during a period of civil conflict in 2006, 2007. So it would need to bring security forces back into the Strip, which is, of course, a devastated war zone at this point. So I think there's going to need to be, as this plan envisions, some role for outside countries, for Arab states or other countries to contribute on security.

1:07:25But I do think at least when it comes to day-to-day governance, the PA can certainly have a role in that. Meanwhile, starvation continues in Gaza and on the waters of the Mediterranean, an international flotilla heading toward the Gaza Strip trying to bring food to people who live there, trying to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza. Now, some people on the boat say they were attacked by drones while sailing south of Greece. There were no casualties reported. Activists say they were hit by more than 13 drones, gave updates via livestream. Italy and Spain have now sent naval ships to try and protect the flotilla.

1:08:04Our VHF radio was hijacked by adversarial comms, and they started playing ABBA. So this is the initiation of the psychological operations. They're jamming our radio.

1:08:19Now, neither Israel's military nor Benjamin Netanyahu have commented on this. A spokesperson for the Foreign Ministry of Israeli Affairs said on X without evidence that the flotilla was organized by and intended to serve Hamas. Michelle, what do we need to know about this flotilla? Well, it is a fast-moving story, and it's hard to verify all these details of what's happening a sea. But this is kind of puts us where we've been before with these sort of how to have the big logistical challenge of how do you get more aid into the Gaza Strip? But also, you know, the problem of what the Israelis have outlined, which is how do you verify that this is safe and that this is not a Hamas operation?

1:08:59Well, the conditions on the ground in Gaza remain horrific while the flotilla sails across the Mediterranean, which we just heard from people on those boats. on Tuesday, the UN said that famine conditions have taken hold across Gaza, with more than half a million people starving, 390 deaths confirmed, including 140 children. It's now been over a month since famine was first declared in Gaza. Greg, what's the situation on the ground with food and humanitarian aid right now? There is still not enough food getting into Gaza, and you have the same two problems that have really bedeviled aid distribution throughout the war.

1:09:42The first is Israeli restrictions on how much aid is allowed to enter. You have several of the crossings into Gaza that have not been operating over the past two weeks. And then at the ones that are operating, the UN is often denied permission to come and collect aid that's been dropped off at the border. There was a nine-day period earlier this month where the UN said it submitted 94 requests to pick up aid from border points, and the Israeli army approved only about a third of those requests. So the volume is still insufficient. And then when trucks do make it across the border into Gaza with aid, more often than not, those trucks are looted by gunmen.

1:10:21Some of that aid no doubt being diverted by Hamas or other armed groups. Some of it probably being stolen by criminal groups and then sold at outrageous prices on the black market. So even when food is getting into Gaza, very often it's not reaching the people who actually need it. In other words, never as simple as just dropping or trucking food into the Gaza Strip. Much, much more complicated than that in terms of getting food to hungry people who are suffering. Well, while hunger continues, so do Israeli military operations. Israeli forces neared the center of Gaza City, part of the latest offensive to occupy that city.

1:11:00The Israeli government says Gaza City is the last stronghold of Hamas and says its aim is to rescue remaining hostages and to destroy the tunnels and infrastructure used by Hamas. Now, before a mandatory evacuation order from Gaza City, the U.N. said that nearly one million people were living there. Israeli officials estimate that 640 ,000 people have fled the city since evacuation orders were given. The offensive in Gaza City comes at a critical time, James Hetfield, as world leaders talk peace. The UN and other humanitarian activists talk genocide and famine. The assault on Gaza City, is this the endgame for the war?

1:11:44God, I hope so. But, you know, I don't know that Netanyahu is ready to pull troops out of there. So, you know, Gaza City is the last place they have not had the type of, you know, overall offensive that they can destroy tunnels and, you know, kill a lot of the Hamas foot soldiers that remain. But, you know, with those tunnels, they can move around. So is this the end? Let's hope so. But the end of this will really only come when there's a plan for what happens the day after the end. And that's why it was so important for the Trump administration and for our allies in Europe to say enough is enough.

1:12:24Once this, you know, whatever you think you have to do in Gaza City, and they are doing it right now. So that's not going to stop until they think militarily they've accomplished. But what happens the day after? And that can put a horizon on this where you can get to the end and then the next day after where you give some relief to all these civilians. That perspective is interesting because so much of what we've been talking about earlier in the hour is about the day after, right? The assault on Gaza City continues. Pressure on Israel and support for Palestinian people at the UN, which really is about the day after the assault, isn't it?

1:13:01Rebuilding something there that's livable. Exactly. You know, horizon for this so you can get beyond the killing. Before, I want to talk about NATO and Russia, a lot of news out of that region. Before we do, just one more note from the UN General Assembly, because this was remarkable. In the first visit to the United Nations General Assembly by a Syrian head of state since 1967, Ahmed al-Shara made his debut on the world stage this week. The former head of Syria's Al-Qaeda-affiliated al-Nusra Front once had a bounty on his head for$10 million, but this week he was feted as a statesman, addressing not only the UN General Assembly, but also in a fireside chat with diplomats and a discussion with his one-time enemy.

1:13:47You've heard of him, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency and United States General David Petraeus. Here's a bit of that conversation. Syria is trying to avoid any fighting or confrontations. Meanwhile, Syria has to be respected in this new era. So if calming the situation will succeed, we will be able to discuss the situation related to the Golan Heights and other issues. There is a huge anger in the view of what's going in Gaza, not only in Syria, but in the entire world. And of course, this has an impact on our position towards Israel. Greg Karlstrom, just briefly, what did you make of this remarkable moment, former essentially Al-Qaeda general, in conversation with General David Petraeus as a head of state at the United Nations?

1:14:37Yeah, it would have been hard to imagine a few years ago, David Petraeus coming out and greeting him in very polite Arabic. I think Ahmed al-Sharah has done all of the right things on the world stage since he came to power nine months ago. I mean, he came to New York, he talked up his economic plans, he talked up the prospect of a peace deal or at least some sort of a security pact with Israel. He had a meeting with the Syrian diaspora in New York, which I thought was a very canny bit of politics. He's done a very good job selling himself internationally. The picture is a bit more complicated at home.

1:15:13He's not delivering the sort of inclusive government that Syrians want. Power is consolidated amongst a handful of close advisors around him. He's having trouble with the economy, in part because the U.S. still hasn't lifted all of the sanctions that Donald Trump promised to lift. There's a big fight in Congress right now about lifting some of the most onerous sanctions on Syria. So at home, again, domestic politics don't look necessarily that great for Ahmed Sherr at the moment. But on the world stage, he's done, I think, a better job than anyone would have expected nine months ago. A fascinating look at the evolution of world politics, the Middle East, the American War on Terror.

1:15:53You could write a book about that scene between Petraeus and al-Sharah at the UN General Assembly. Just absolutely fascinating. Greg, thanks for that read on it. Well, let's do turn to NATO now, the Defense Alliance, because they are facing multiple incursions from Russia, drones, airplanes, violating the airspace of NATO members in the past few weeks. That includes three Russian aircraft in Estonia, multiple drones in Poland and Romania. And this Monday, unidentified drones flew over the airports in Copenhagen and all the way in Oslo, shutting them down for hours. Drone sightings continued later in the week, affecting other Danish airports and a military base.

1:16:34The Danish defense minister said, a quote, professional actor was responsible for those incursions. Now, NATO's chief said the alliance might shoot down these aircraft in the future. Secretary General Mark Rutte said on Thursday that NATO forces could shoot them down if necessary, but that escorting planes out of NATO territory is also an option. Ruta's comments follow a meeting on Tuesday between President Donald Trump and Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly. And while Trump was taking questions from the press, this happened. Do you think that NATO countries should shoot down Russian aircraft if they enter their airspace?

1:17:15Yes, I do. multiple incursions across NATO airspace, planes and drones. This week, we saw multiple Russian drones flying into Poland. That was weeks ago, actually. What are Vladimir Putin and Russia up to, James? Testing NATO's resolve. They obviously know that President Trump, for most of his second term, has had other priorities than revitalizing NATO and for helping Ukraine, for that matter. So I think they see this as an opportunity to test NATO. That's basically what our European allies have said all along is his intention. He wants to reestablish his empire, and that includes a number of NATO countries, including Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, etc.

1:18:01etc. So I think he's testing NATO. What's interesting is the Trump administration and President Trump himself came out and said fairly strongly, you should shoot those planes down. And oh, by the way, we think that the Ukrainians can take back all their territory as long as the EU and NATO support them. Well, let's talk about that because President Trump went behind closed doors and in front of cameras with Zelensky. He posted on True Social that he believes, indeed, Russia could win back all territory, that it is lost to Russia in Russia's invasion. Michelle, this was a 180 for Trump, a reversal.

1:18:35It made news around the world that Trump had essentially reversed course. Now, this is in the context of the drone incursions, the airplane incursions. Russia is testing NATO's resolve. Donald Trump doesn't have a ton of interest in NATO. And yet he goes to the UN, comes out of a meeting with Zelensky with essentially a reversal of policy. What are we to read into this? Well, certainly a shocking 180, Todd. But I think to zoom out a little bit further, you have to think about two things that Trump is always trying to do. One is maintain leverage through unpredictability. So he wants to shock and awe.

1:19:11He wants that headline, oh my God, what does he mean when he says this or that? And secondly, he always wants to embarrass or diminish his adversaries. And in this case, you know, Putin, for all the friendliness of the Alaska meeting several weeks ago, when a lot of critics were saying, well, why would you meet with the Russian leader at this time? And Trump was saying, I need to hear him out. Now he's changed his tone on Putin and he feels he's been embarrassed. I mean, he's publicly said as much that Putin has disappointed him and is not behaving properly. So in order to kind of... Has Putin embarrassed Trump?

1:19:46I mean, there were weeks and months where leaders around the world were sending signals in the press and elsewhere. Donald Trump doesn't understand that Putin is playing him. That was the message from Poland, from Eastern Europe. That is fairly obvious now. And I wonder if Donald – I mean, not in the side of his head, but in terms of how this is playing out diplomatically on the world stage. Did Putin embarrass him into this? Whether embarrass is the correct word or not, the implication that seems to be playing out this way and Trump's diminishing patience with Putin. is what matters here. I mean, he doesn't want to have these headlines, even if it's from, you know, so-called fake news outlets that he discredits.

1:20:24He doesn't want this publicity, you know, driving in one direction that he's given too much to Putin without anything in return. So he's going to go out and diminish Russia. He turned around and he also mentioned that they're a paper tiger in terms of their economy, even though he kind of drew back on those criticisms. Russia said, no, we're not a tiger, we're a bear. James, what is Putin to take from this. On the one hand, he might say, oh gosh, NATO is sticking together more than I thought. Trump is behind them. On the other hand, he might say, well, he'll change his mind next week, so I'm good.

1:20:53Well, I'm sure both thoughts have occurred to him, and they've occurred to me as well. I'm waiting for this president to have a consistent line so you could understand exactly what his intention is. But this is a welcome development. Putin has been playing President Trump along, and everyone can see it. And I think that President Trump has seen it too. And it's all to the good that he realizes that. And I like the fact that when he said, you know, not only can Ukraine take back all its territory, which is unlikely, but he said with the help of not only the EU, but NATO, that's critical because we are the critical leader of NATO.

1:21:30So that means that the U.S. is not going to disengage if he stays with that line. Let's hope he does. Meanwhile, on the front lines of the Russia-Ukraine war, both sides, well, they continue to pummel the others' energy infrastructure right before the beginning of winter there. Greg Karlstrom, what kinds of strategies have we seen from Russia and Ukraine in their warfare in recent weeks? Russia is going to try and do exactly what it did last winter when it knocked out, I think, around nine gigawatts of production capacity, power production capacity in Ukraine, which is about one quarter of their pre-war power capacity.

1:22:09And obviously, that's important in the winter when power is not just used to keep the lights on, it's used for heat. So it's vital for Ukraine to try and keep its energy infrastructure running. They've tried to lay on new capacity this year. They've tried to diversify their energy sources, but they don't have enough air defenses to protect all of their generating facilities. So Russia, no doubt, is going to try and target those facilities again this winter. But I think the difference now is the capability that Ukraine has developed to strike, in some cases, deep inside of Russia at Russian oil refining capabilities.

1:22:46We've seen something like 20 percent of Russia's oil refining capacity knocked out by Ukrainian drone strikes in recent weeks. And so there have been widespread shortages of gasoline, of other refined products, gas stations on highways in bits of Russia that just don't have fuel to sell because there has been enough damage done to its refining and distribution capabilities. So that's a new tool that Ukraine has in its arsenal, being able to strike in this sort of deeper and more systemic way at energy infrastructure inside of Russia. Well, let's talk about some more news out of the U.N. General Assembly, this time the idea that the United States could be on its way to a bailout for Argentina.

1:23:32while speaking on Tuesday, Donald Trump stopped short of agreeing to a full rescue of Argentina's struggling economy, but did say that the U.S. will help Argentina. Meanwhile, the Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Besant, also posted on X on Monday that, quote, all options for stabilization are on the table for Argentina. Now, Argentina's president, Javier Mille, is looking to Washington for help after a sharp devaluation of his country's currency. And last Last week, Argentina's central bank spent more than a billion dollars of its foreign currency reserves to keep the peso from collapsing. Now, Michelle, the deal outlined by the Treasury Secretary includes$20 billion exchange of U.S.

1:24:16for pesos to help stabilize Argentinian financial markets. What else is on the agenda to help Argentina's economy stay afloat? Well, yeah, I mean, I think we have to stick to what the Treasury Secretary has outlined and floated. And of course, no money has moved yet, but he's talked about deploying that lifeline via the exchange stabilization fund, which would essentially be swap lines and purchases of currency or government bonds. And the details, while yet being unclear, could kind of look more like a bailout. I don't want to use that word prematurely, but there are different ways that you can go about this to aid in the recovery of the Argentine economy, while outsiders at the same time are seeing this as a gamble.

1:24:57because Argentina maintains, you know, is still somewhat seen as a high-risk borrower. Now, Javier Mille praised Donald Trump during his speech at the UN General Assembly on Tuesday. President Trump of the United States also understands that the time has come to reverse a dynamic which is leading the United States towards a disaster. And we know that a disaster in the United States is a global disaster. His unflinching and successful policy in terms of halting illegal immigration makes that conviction more than clear. he knows that he must do what's necessary, even though many may not like it.

1:25:31Now, Miele, James Kitfield, is the guy who gave Elon Musk a chainsaw when he waved it around on stage at CPAC earlier this year during the Doge epic. Now he needs a bailout. And bailing out a foreign country doesn't feel like America first, at least to this journalist. So talk to us about why the U.S. is exerting its effort to help Argentina now. President Trump has shown time and again that he views politics as personalities and personal relationships. And Milley has done a very good job of insinuating himself into the MAGA movement. As you said, showed up and handed Elon Musk that chainsaw during the Doge cuts to our federal government.

1:26:15And I think it's worked. And I think that how far they will go remains the question because you're right. The sort of Make America Great Again movement doesn't look for farm bailouts as being something that's high on their list of priorities. But I think that President Trump likes this guy, and I think that that goes a long way with this president. Before we go, we have just time for a quick thought, really one thought from each of you, what stories you're working on for the week ahead. Greg, you go first. I will be watching the meeting between Netanyahu and Trump at the White House on Monday.

1:26:50Trump saying some very positive things about a peace deal after meeting Arab leaders this week. But we'll see what his tone is after meeting Bibi on Monday. James? I'll be looking at this very strange meeting Secretary of Defense. Egg Seth has called in Quantico next week where he's called in hundreds of American generals, and no one knows exactly why. From all around the world to come and meet in person. And those generals don't seem to know why they're being told to come to Marine Base Quantico in Virginia outside of Washington, Michelle. Well, I think all these issues, plus China, I mean, there's still a lot to be explored in terms of the TikTok fallout, national security, trade implications, and that highly anticipated meeting between the two litters perhaps next month.

1:27:31Well, that's the end of our weekly tour of the world. I want to thank Greg Karlstrom, Middle East correspondent for The Economist, Michelle Jamrisco from Bloomberg News, and James Kittfield from the Center for the Study of the Presidency and Congress. Mike Kitt is our sound designer and engineer. Chris Castano is our digital editor. Maya Garg is our senior managing producer. Alexandra Botee is our senior supervising producer. Eileen Humphries is the editor and producer of 1A On Demand. And Barb Anguiano produces our podcast. Special thanks to Matthew Simonson for additional podcast and on-demand support this week.

1:28:05This program comes to you from WAMU, part of American University in Washington, distributed by NPR. I'm Todd Zwilich. Let's talk more soon. This is 1A.

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