What The Practice Of State Preemption Means For Our Democracy

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0:23Last November, Calvin Duncan won an election to serve as the criminal court clerk for New Orleans. He received 68 % of the vote, beating out a powerful incumbent. Duncan ran on improving the court system, especially access to criminal records. His criticism of the system came from personal experience. He was incarcerated for a murder conviction in Louisiana's Angola State Prison for 28 years. He studied criminal law to advocate for his case, and after years of petitions, he was released and later exonerated. But now, the Republican-controlled Louisiana state legislature has moved to eliminate Duncan's position.

1:00In the weeks and days before he was set to take office on May 4th, The legislature voted to combine the civil and criminal court systems in New Orleans. State senators who supported the bill say it was to make the system more efficient. Louisiana's Republican governor, Jeff Landry, signed the bill into law over the weekend. Duncan sued, and a lawsuit over his role is now making its way through the courts. I'm Jen White. You're listening to the 1A Podcast. We'll be back with more after this short break. Stay with us.

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2:10With the Strait of Hormuz still closed, the global energy shock is only getting deeper. Listen for overnight developments on Iran, plus primaries in Ohio and Indiana as midterm election season heats up. We'll have the very latest every morning on Up First. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. This message comes from IXL. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform. IXL makes it simple for kids to stay sharp during summer break. Receive an exclusive 20 % off IXL membership at IXL.com slash NPR. This message comes from Jerry. Are you tired of your car insurance rate going up, even with a clean driving record?

2:52That's why there's Jerry. your proactive insurance assistant. Jerry compares rates side-by-side from over 50 top insurers and helps you switch with ease. Jerry even tracks market rates and alerts you when it's best to shop. No spam calls, no hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Switch with confidence. Download the Jerry app or visit jerry.ai slash npr today. Welcome back to the 1A podcast. Joining us now from New Orleans is Calvin Duncan. He's the elected clerk of criminal court for Orleans Parish, which covers the city of New Orleans. He's also co-author with Sophie Cull of The Jailhouse Lawyer.

3:34Calvin, welcome to 1A. Yes, a pleasure. Thank you. And a note that a 1A listener in New Orleans suggested Calvin Duncan's story to us. We always want to hear about big stories happening where you live. Email us at 1a at wamu.org. So, Calvin, you've had a complicated couple of weeks. You took office on Monday after a court ruling over the weekend, put the changes we mentioned on hold, meaning your job would still exist. But that ruling has since been blocked. How would you describe this experience in the run-up to taking office with these questions about whether you'll be able to serve in the position to which you were elected?

4:09Well, it was a good experience. Although it was for three hours, it was one of the, it's going to be one of the best experiences since I've been really in my life. Because I've been trying to make it to that office pretty much all my life, most of my life. Because when I got arrested and was in prison, I used to try to get access to my records. and trying to help other people get access to their criminal records to see what actually was taking place in our cases, and we weren't able to do that. And while in prison, I became a jailhouse lawyer trying to get access to people's records to show the courts that they wasn't afforded a fair trial, and in some cases that they were innocent, and also to try to get access to the evidence.

4:59And we was always unsuccessful. And New Orleans was the only clerk court like that. Other parages, we was able to get people records, criminal court records, and litigate their cases to show the courts that they wasn't a fair trial. And in some cases, that they were innocent. But that wasn't the case here in New Orleans. So I can imagine that you have this high of winning the office in your election, being elected by New Orleans residents. but then the state legislature moving to eliminate that role. How did that feel when you saw the law passed and Governor Landry signed it into law? So to put it in perspective, for me, they didn't eliminate the office.

5:48They abolished the office. They did something that they did during Reconstruction time. When Blacks was elected to offices, they did away with it. So them doing it this time, it was really a shock because I learned about that in history, in my history books. And I thought we was past that. So they actually abolished the office. And what's really sad to me is that they would go to that elit. I could see if I wasn't affected by that system. I was, and I only want to make it better to make sure that people have access to the course and make sure that evidence is properly preserved so victims don't learn 20 and 30 years later that they had the wrong person in prison.

6:35So they actually abolished the clerk of criminal district court because I was elected to it. And the extent by which they did it was just really disheartening that they would go to that extent. right during this in 2026. Help us better understand the job of clerk of criminal court. What are the most important responsibilities of that role in your parish? The clerk of court is, they're responsible for the preservation of criminal records. They're the custodian of the records. The law requires the clerk of court to be the custodian of records and the custodian of evidence that's being introduced in criminal cases.

7:18And also the clerk job is I am the chief election officer. I supervise the election. And so those are the two duties to make sure that the clerk of court is the custodian of the records and the chief election officer here in New Orleans. What did you hear from voters when you campaigned, especially those who have experience dealing with the court system? So the voters, what we decided to do was educate the voters because we realized that a lot of people that run for office, the voters never know exactly what position they are being asked to be over or being elected to. So we educated the voters, and then we also educated, got allowed, not just allowed, but told the voters who I was, who the person is asking to actually take this position and do this job so that they can actually cast an intelligent vote as to who they want to be, the person that would be fulfilling that responsibility.

8:24So they got that. That was something that the voters hadn't gotten. I don't know if they ever got it. I know I've never heard politicians actually explain to the voters the role of the office and also who they were and to allow them to cast an intelligent vote. So then once they did that, and then as we was campaigning, a lot of people was telling us that their vote don't count and that they don't vote. And I'm convinced them that their vote do count, that voting is one of the most fundamental things in this country that a citizen could have and that we have to exercise it. And they went and registered a vote.

9:04And then being told that, well, we abolished in the office. Thank you for your vote. But we abolished in that office that Calvin just was elected, which amount to that their vote did not count. I'm curious to hear from you. You know, you made this case to people who said, look, my vote doesn't count. And you told them, yes. Yes, it actually does. It's important that you vote. It's important that you register. So to have this move by the state legislature to essentially nullify the decision of voters in New Orleans, as the person who made that argument, how are you feeling in this moment?

9:56Well, I didn't hear the entire question that you asked me. Yeah, we're having a little trouble on the line, but I said that you made this pitch to voters that their vote does count, that it matters. And to have these votes nullified by the state legislature, as the person who made that case to voters, how are you feeling in this moment?

10:24i feel well i don't know the proper description other than i'm really sad and disappointed that we are back to where we started during reconstruction whatever legal whatever description describes that to the perfectly is is is this heartening that we are way back i thought we made a lot of progress And people want to think that we made a progress and moving away from racist acts like this. And now for the people to actually see it up front again is disappointing, disheartening. And is this a sad thing that we have to experience this stuff all over again? Yeah. Republican state lawmakers who supported changing the criminal court system argued it needed to be more efficient and cost effective.

11:22That's not a new argument, though the push to eliminate your role happened in the months after you were elected, as you said. Here's Republican State Senator Jay Morris, who introduced the bill. Members, I think this bill is important to move forward, to combine these offices like everybody everywhere else in the state. We're combining the judicial expense fund. It's going to allow there to be one clerk and one judicial expense fund that will help pay for the criminal courts so the state of Louisiana won't have to pay as much. And the city of New Orleans will ultimately save some money as well.

12:00Calvin, what do you make of the argument that Republican lawmakers made for passing this law? Well, they made those arguments during Reconstruction as well. They did. Those are the same arguments. Efficiency, we're saving money. And when you ask Senator Morris how much they were saved, it's like$27 ,000. Well, New Orleans contributed a lot of money to the budget here in Louisiana. So they have saved that for every racist law, every law that has really caused a lot of harm and injury to people. They have always said, those are like the key phrases that they use. Like one of the senators on the floor repeated what Governor Wallace has said, but he just, he didn't use, Governor Wallace said, segregation then, segregation now and forevermore.

12:56Well, he repeated something similar to that, that the law is good, now the law is good, here and forever, some kind of the way he phrased it. Well, we have to take a quick break. When we come back, more from Calvin Duncan, and then a look at the trend of state preemption. That's where states limit what local governments can do. That's just ahead.

13:20This message comes from Grainger. This is the story of The One. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority. That's why he chooses Grainger. Because when a drive belt gets damaged, Grainger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs. And next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. This message comes from IXL. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform.

13:58IXL makes it simple for kids to stay sharp during summer break. Receive an exclusive 20 % off IXL membership at IXL.com slash NPR. This message comes from Jerry. Many people are overpaying on car insurance. Why? Switching providers can be a pain. Jerry helps make the process painless. Jerry is the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai.npr. Welcome back. We're speaking with Calvin Duncan.

14:43He's the elected clerk of criminal court for Orleans Parish, which covers New Orleans. Duncan's elected position was the target of elimination by the Louisiana State Legislature last week. He's since sued over the move, and his job has now been taken up by the courts in Louisiana. Calvin, I just want to share some background on your case for those who might not have followed it. You accepted a guilty plea to lesser charges in exchange for time served that allowed for your release from prison in 2011. Ten years later, you were exonerated on the original murder charge. Then last year, when you ran to unseat the incumbent clerk, Democrat Darren Lombard, he claimed you were never cleared of that 1981 murder conviction.

15:21And the current Republican Attorney General, Liz Murrell, claimed you shouldn't consider yourself exonerated from the crime, despite a letter from 160 legal scholars saying you were. So when you think about the messaging and rhetoric around your innocence, what do you make of this effort to push back against you as an exonerated person and now as an elected official in Louisiana's largest city? well um here in um in louisiana the attorney general liz morrow she has challenged every every exoneration when a person is exonerated under louisiana law that that person could file the petition to be compensated and she challenged every last one every every last one of those petitions she don't believe that a person could be wrongfully convicted and innocent because she challenged it she tried to her she has a definition of what that means in her head and it doesn't include being factually innocent because factually innocent of the crime factually innocent as to any participation of the crime she has challenged every the documents with the ever um the records would show that every person that was exonerated that when they filed a petition for compensation wrongful conviction compensation, she has challenged it.

16:42She has actually appealed the cases all the way to the Louisiana Supreme Court. And Louisiana Supreme Court constantly has to say that this person is exonerated. This person is factually innocent. Have you attempted to get compensated for the 28 years you spent in prison? Yeah, I did. After I was exonerated, I filed a petition to be compensated. and a day before my trial on a compensation suit, she threatened me. She sent a message to Leon Canizara, who works for her, and he said that, she said, she said several threatened messages, things that she was threatening me about. One, that she was going to have me indicted, but the last one was that she was going to report me.

17:33If I didn't dismiss the suit, She was going to report me to the boy association to prevent me from getting my license. And her position was that she would have argued that I don't meet the moral and character factor in getting my license. So to practice law. And that's what's been something that I always wanted to do is become a lawyer and practice. So what I did, hoping that she would go away, I dismissed her soon. But that obviously wasn't enough. And then she surfers again when I was running for office. A group of Democratic state representatives spoke from the House floor during the final vote on the bill on April 24th.

18:21A state representative, Candace Newell, is a Democrat who represents New Orleans. And she said this bill was part of a question of election integrity. If we pass this bill, we are telling people of Louisiana that their vote is not final and that it does not count. And it can be changed because the legislature can come back after the fact and alter the outcome. That is a dangerous message. It weakens confidence in elections. It opens the doors for future legislatures to revisit outcomes that they do not like or stop people who they do not like from taking office. Calvin, what are you hearing from voters since the news came out in April that the state legislature would try to eliminate your position and change the court system?

19:07They asked me what they could do. They are really shocked about what has happened. They really are. And there was a glimmer of hope when the court intervened, but then for them to take it right back. They just can't believe that in 2026, we are reliving what was lived by people during Reconstruction. They're asking me, Calvin, what can we do? This can't be an America. Do you have an answer for them when they ask what can they do? What do you say? Yes. What I've been telling voters is that we cannot accept that chilling effect that they are sending out. That is, that your vote don't count, that we control who gets elected and who runs.

19:55And so I've been telling the voters that to find people that's not registered to vote and make sure that they are registered and make sure that they get to the polls and vote. And also to make sure that we start paying attention to our lawmakers, what laws are being enacted at the legislature, because the laws is what actually govern our lives here, not just in Louisiana, but in the whole country. We have to be very vigilant because we see that they're trying to erode all of the civil liberties that we have. So I've been telling them, don't be discouraged because that's the Klansman. They did that during the Reconstruction to discourage blacks and other minorities from going out and vote.

20:38So I'm saying to them, continue to vote. Continue to exercise your fundamental right to vote because it is the most, to me, that's the most important liberty that we have in this country. So I've been actually being honest with them is that we just have to keep on. We just can't let them win at trying to intimidate us and not into thinking that our vote doesn't count. Do you feel, Calvin, though, in talking to people, that that message is landing? I'm thinking about the Supreme Court's recent decision gutting the Voting Rights Act. We had a show on it earlier this week. and the governor of Louisiana moved to cancel congressional primaries.

21:25Early voting already underway in Louisiana. So as people are watching what's playing out in your state, are they listening to your message and feeling hope in that message? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they are. Because they are telling me, look, I'm going to make sure that my whole household is registered. I'm going to make sure that my friends are registered. They are saying that I'm going to start contacting my friends in the rural areas, regardless of what race they are. And they are going to tell them, look, stop voting Republican just because you think that, you know, Republicans has always been the party that the family has voted for.

22:08So they are sending messages all throughout the state to their friends, their high school friends and colleagues saying, look, make sure everybody in your family, every friend that you know is registered to vote and go vote. Do not let them make us feel as though that we have no right to participate in this democratic process, this system. The bill the state legislature passed in Louisiana eliminates the elected clerk of criminal court position. It combines it with the clerk responsible for the civil court system. Beyond the impact on you as an individual, what do you see as the potential consequences of this move for New Orleans?

22:49So New Orleans has always had a problem with preserving the records and the evidence. Now, for them to actually appoint a person that has lots of knowledge and lots of experience in dealing with civil matters, Now it's the same person that's going to be responsible for making sure that the evidence is properly preserved and stored and the records are properly stored and preserved. And that is two different court systems. People get wrongfully convicted when we get it wrong. And we have gotten it wrong. Louisiana is the incarceration capital world. And most people that are incarcerated come from New Orleans.

23:37And New Orleans have the highest exoneration rate. And so having somebody over that have lots of knowledge, experience in a civil, then having that person also to have to deal with both courts, it's not manageable. because we already have a serious problem in our clerk of criminal district court. Everything is just outdated, and it's the only court in this state that's like that. And to have a person that has to deal with both, that is a lot. It's going to cost a lot, although they keep saying that it's not going to be expensive. It's going to cost a lot. We are so far behind in clerks of court here in New Orleans.

24:30It's unbelievable. I don't even know how we got away with it so long. Well, that's Calvin Duncan. He's the elected clerk of criminal court for Orleans Parish, which covers New Orleans. He's also co-author with Sophie Call of the Jailhouse Lawyer and founder of Light of Justice, which focuses on improving court access for incarcerated people. Calvin, thank you for speaking with us. You're welcome. Thank you. John in New Orleans emails, I'm a New Orleans voter and a veteran. I voted for Calvin Duncan. I too am angry that my vote was nullified. I would encourage your listeners to go watch Gary Chambers' statement to the Louisiana legislature as they are passing this bill to nullify Mr.

25:07Duncan's seat. Tell me whether it looks any different from people of color speaking to the legislature in 1952. We also heard from Stu in Michigan who emails, Calvin Duncan's story is a reminder that the Supreme Court was wrong in their belief that racism no longer exists in the South. Thanks to the listener who suggested 1A look into his situation. Thanks also to Calvin for sharing his story. And again, this is a story one of you suggested we dig into, and we always want to hear your pitches for 1A. Email us at 1A at wamu.org or call 855-236-1212. Now let's zoom out. Controlling police departments, blocking sanctuary city policies, undoing clean energy ordinances.

25:49Around the U.S., these moves are happening through a political fight that's gaining more attention between local governments and state legislatures. State preemption describes steps a state government takes to tell a local city or town council what they can and can't do. In states like Florida, Missouri, California, West Virginia, Michigan, and Louisiana, state preemption is becoming a common tool legislators use against cities. What's leading to more frequent and public fights between state legislatures and local governments? And what could defuse these battles? Joining us from Nashville, Tennessee, is Katie Bellinger.

26:23She's lead consultant for the Local Solutions Support Center. That's a nonprofit advocacy group focused on countering state preemption. Katie, welcome to 1A. Thank you so much for having me. And joining us from DeKalb, Illinois, is Chris Goodman. He's a professor of public administration at Northern Illinois University. Chris, welcome to you as well. Thank you for having me. So Chris, you study state preemptions. How do you define what a preemption is? So I take a little bit of a different approach than many of my law colleagues in that we define preemption as the use of coercive methods to substitute state priorities for local policymaking.

27:01Basically, anytime the state says to a local government, we don't like the way you're doing something, we're going to enact a law that prevents you from doing that, that would fall under our definition. And Katie, what are some examples where states have changed what local governments can do? We just heard one from Calvin Duncan. Absolutely. I mean, generally speaking, if you care about the health and well-being and if you care about our democracy and the people in our communities, there is a preemption issue out there. You listed quite a few. I want to add to the mix public health policies, whether it's during COVID time with mask mandates.

27:40We're seeing that still within vaccine laws. We have an emerging issue coming in AI and data center preemption as local communities are grappling with those issues. We also see rampant abusive preemption around LGBTQ plus issues, particularly targeting young children and their experience in schools. I could keep going, but again, it comes down to if you care about the health and well-being of people, there is a preemption issue out there where state governments are taking authority away. But Katie, how often can state preemptions produce positive or at least neutral outcomes? So preemption itself is a neutral tool, just like legislation and drafting bills.

28:27It is all about intent and impact for us. And that's why we focus on abuses of state preemption. And we consider it abusive when the policy is targeting and harming historically excluded communities, specifically BIPOC, LGBTQ plus people, women, immigrants, and working folks. We have to take another break. But before we go, Jimmy in Georgia says, I think localities should be able to make policy on their local housing market, including single family housing, like managing or limiting how many houses can be owned by investors. Still to come, what state preemption means for our system of hyper-partisan politics.