In short
Podcast Episode Summary: 60 Minutes - 01/18/2026
Episode Overview In this episode, 60 Minutes investigates three significant stories:
- Rising tensions in Minneapolis following the fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE agent.
- A look inside CECOT, one of El Salvador's harshest prisons, where Venezuelan deportees are held.
- The increasing population of saltwater crocodiles in Australia and their impact on local communities.
Segment 1
Minneapolis - Tensions After Shooting Key Events
- Fatal Shooting of Renee Good: The episode begins with a report on the aftermath of Renee Good's shooting by an ICE agent, sparking protests in Minneapolis.
- Community Response: Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara expresses concern about escalating tensions between federal immigration officers and the community.
- Operation Metro Surge: The operation involves a large deployment of ICE and Border Patrol agents aimed at enforcing immigration laws, creating friction with local residents.
Key Points of Discussion
- Dual Perspectives: The police chief and ICE officials present contrasting views on the situation. O'Hara emphasizes the need for community trust, while ICE insists operations are necessary for public safety.
- Community Outcry: Residents voice their frustrations, with numerous complaints flooding the city’s 911 system.
- Political Implications: The episode touches on the political ramifications of the ICE operations, including investigations into local officials for potential interference.
Segment 2
Inside CECOT Prison Overview
- Brutality in CECOT: The segment explores the harsh realities faced by Venezuelan deportees sent to CECOT, a maximum-security prison in El Salvador.
- Inmate Testimonies: Former detainees recount experiences of torture and inhumane conditions, including physical abuse and psychological trauma.
Key Insights
- Deportation and Torture: Reports indicate that many deportees had no criminal history, contradicting claims made by the U.S. government.
- Prison Conditions: CECOT is described as operating under brutal conditions, with allegations of systematic torture and abuse.
- Government Accountability: The U.S. government's role in deporting individuals to such conditions raises ethical questions about immigration enforcement policies.
Segment 3
Saltwater Crocodiles in Australia Wildlife Report
- Surging Population: The segment highlights the increasing number of saltwater crocodiles in Australia, leading to heightened human-crocodile conflicts.
- Crocodile Management: Rangers discuss their role in managing crocodile populations and the dangers posed to humans.
Key Discussions
- Conservation vs. Safety: The debate surrounding the crocodile population revolves around conservation efforts versus public safety concerns.
- Public Perception: There is a division in public opinion regarding crocodiles, with some advocating for hunting regulations and others supporting their protection.
- Indigenous Perspectives: The episode includes insights from Indigenous Australians who have a cultural connection to crocodiles, highlighting differing viewpoints on coexistence.
Conclusion The episode provides a multifaceted look at immigration enforcement, human rights abuses, and wildlife management, raising critical questions about public policy, accountability, and community relations. The contrasts in perspectives among law enforcement, political figures, and community members illustrate the complexities of these issues in contemporary society.
Call to Action Listeners are encouraged to engage with these pressing issues, considering their implications on society while reflecting on their own perspectives.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMinneapolis After the Shooting
0:00 to 0:45
Learn about the immediate aftermath of Renee Good's shooting in Minneapolis.
“One week after an ICE agent shot Renee Good, this was the scene in Minneapolis.”
The Deportees' Hell
0:45 to 2:11
Hear the harrowing accounts of deportees held in a maximum security prison.
“back to Venezuela, but instead they were shackled, paraded in front of cameras, and delivered to CICOT, the notorious maximum security prison in El Salvador, where they told 60 Minutes they endured four months of hell.”
The Police Chief's Concerns
2:30 to 3:25
Discover the police chief's fears about escalating tensions with federal agents.
“By now, you have no doubt seen many of the scenes from Minneapolis.”
Operation Metro Surge Explained
3:25 to 5:10
Understand the federal operation's aim and the local reaction to it.
“Federal immigration agents facing off against angry protesters.”
The Aftermath of Violence and Protests
5:10 to 7:40
Explore the chaotic scenes and the community's reaction to immigration enforcement.
“Targeted, precise, preplanned operations on violent offenders.”
The Impact of ICE Operations
7:40 to 9:10
Investigate the implications of ICE's actions on community trust and safety.
“Can Americans trust what's coming out about the status of this investigation right now?”
The Controversy Surrounding Renee Good's Case
9:10 to 10:40
Delve into the differing perspectives on Renee Good's fatal encounter with ICE.
“This past week, the Department of Homeland Security posted a message from White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller telling ICE agents, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties.”
Public Trust and Accountability
10:40 to 12:20
Examine the concerns over public trust in law enforcement and accountability.
“Not only that, mainstream media is picking up those social media posts and putting them out as real news without looking at the whole story.”
Targeted Enforcement vs. Community Safety
12:20 to 14:00
Discuss the balance between targeted enforcement and community safety in Minneapolis.
“If those cops works for me, they'd have a problem right now.”
Targeted Enforcement and Community Concerns
14:00 to 16:44
Discussion on police enforcement practices in Minneapolis and community implications.
“I can hear you don't have the same accent as me.”
Show all 20 chapters
Maduro's Capture and U.S. Immigration Crackdown
16:44 to 22:20
Examination of Maduro's arrest and the impact on Venezuelan migrants in the U.S.
“After a high-stakes raid, the White House touted Maduro's capture as a blow to narco-terrorists, who it says flooded U.S.”
Inside the CICOT Prison Experience
22:20 to 28:00
Survivors recount their harrowing experiences in the brutal CICOT prison.
“Juan Papier is a deputy director at the non-profit Human Rights Watch.”
Investigating Human Rights Violations
28:00 to 30:12
Learn how students utilize advanced techniques to gather evidence of human rights abuses in El Salvador.
“and all those gangs are associated with El Salvador.”
U.S. Deportees and Their Stories
30:12 to 31:36
Discover the stories of deported Venezuelan men and the implications of U.S. policies.
“The Department of Homeland Security declined our request for an interview and referred all questions about CICOT to El Salvador.”
Legal Ramifications of Deportation
31:36 to 33:35
Examine the legal issues surrounding the deportation of Venezuelan detainees under U.S. laws.
“Because of this, we relied on the ICE data that is available for our reporting.”
Crocodiles in Australia: A Dangerous Encounter
33:35 to 34:00
Explore the dangers posed by Australia's saltwater crocodiles and their interaction with humans.
“for hearings or holding remote ones at this time would risk, quote, material damage to U.S.”
The Life of Saltwater Crocodiles
34:00 to 36:33
Learn about the biology, behavior, and conservation status of saltwater crocodiles in Australia.
“Australia's infamous for the variety of ways its wildlife can kill you – deadly snakes, spiders and jellyfish.”
Debate Over Crocodile Hunting
36:33 to 39:51
Understand the controversial debate surrounding crocodile hunting regulations in Australia.
“All joking aside, salties are the largest reptiles on the planet.”
Indigenous Perspectives on Crocodiles
39:51 to 42:00
Hear Indigenous Australians share their views on crocodiles and their cultural significance.
“Yeah, well, so do we at the end of the day.”
Indigenous Perspectives on Crocodile Hunting
42:00 to 43:45
Explore the views of Indigenous Australians on hunting crocodiles and their cultural significance.
“Kakadu is bigger than Connecticut, home to a few hundred people and around 10 ,000 crocodiles.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:07One week after an ICE agent shot Renee Good, this was the scene in Minneapolis. It is exactly what police chief Brian O 'Hara feared. I'm afraid we're going to have another moment where it all explodes. Are you bothered by seeing American citizens getting detained in these operations? I'm bothered by seeing people take action against my officers. Get out! It began as soon as the planes landed. The deportees thought they were headed from the U.S. back to Venezuela, but instead they were shackled, paraded in front of cameras, and delivered to CICOT, the notorious maximum security prison in El Salvador, where they told 60 Minutes they endured four months of hell.
1:01Did you think you were going to die there? We thought we were already the living dead, honestly.
1:11In the tropical city of Darwin, the sunsets on the beach are spectacular. Darwin's surrounded by crocodile habitat, and salties are known for being territorial. A quick dip in the sea would be over in a flash if you ran into this creature. So it's just luck? Yeah, luck. You could go for a swim here. I wouldn't go for a swim, no.
1:38I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Sharon Alfonsi. I'm John Wertheim. I'm Cecilia Vega. I'm Scott Pelley. Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes.
2:10Shopify gives us the ability to customize without the complexity. We can change something without introducing fragility or having to pay a developer. We're Thirsty Turtle and we leveled up our business with Shopify. Start your free trial at shopify.com slash au.
2:30By now, you have no doubt seen many of the scenes from Minneapolis. Immigration agents demanding proof of citizenship, even from some American citizens, protesters swarming as agents make arrests, the fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE officer. This past week, we went to Minneapolis and spoke with two men at the center of the crisis, the chief of police and the head of ICE's deportation operation, both veteran law enforcement officers with two very different views of what is unfolding. Tonight, there are 3 ,000 ICE and Border Patrol agents in the Minneapolis area. That's nearly five times the number of police on the city's force, making it the largest ever deployment of federal immigration officers to an American city.
3:20One week after an ICE officer shot Renee Good, this was the scene on the streets of Minneapolis. Federal immigration agents facing off against angry protesters. It is exactly what Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O 'Hara feared. He's been tasked with rebuilding trust between the community and police in the wake of George Floyd's murder nearly six years ago. We're in this 2020 moment where all these tensions have been building. And I'm afraid we're going to have another moment where it all explodes. Late Wednesday night, we witnessed the anger ourselves. It's not a good place to be! Get the f*** out of here!
4:06Leave! Leave! Go home! Leave! We are just hours after meeting with the police chief here in Minneapolis, where he told us that tensions were so high he was worried that violence would take place, something else would happen in this community. You can hear flashbangs behind me. We are now just a few blocks away from where federal immigration agents have been involved in another shooting here in Minneapolis. ICE says one of its officers shot a Venezuelan man in the leg after he and two other migrants attacked the officer with a snow shovel and broom handle. ICE says the three men are in the country illegally.
4:44The Trump administration says the goal is to crack down on illegal immigration and weed out fraud. They call it Operation Metro Surge. Elected officials in Minneapolis call it an occupation. Administration officials are adamant that this action that they are undertaking in Minneapolis right now is making this city safer. Targeted, precise, preplanned operations on violent offenders. That is a good thing. But I'm concerned that people in the administration don't actually understand the reality of what's happening on the street. Chief O 'Hara told us the city's 911 system is overwhelmed by complaints about immigration enforcement.
5:36What are you seeing? I've seen multiple calls of people who have been subjected to tear gas, pepper spray. We need more water. At least one case, a person was removed from a vehicle and the car wasn't even placed in park and it was rolling down the roadway. In an ideal world... It is a city on edge. And as we walked with the chief, we heard it from a man in a passing car. How dare you let this happen here? You should be f***ing ashamed. You should be f***ing sick. F***ing pig! What do you want someone like that who just yelled at you and said you let this happen to know? Well, I have been very publicly saying this has been a risk for several weeks.
6:21Trying to get anyone in the position of authority to understand that tragedy was imminent. The fatal shooting of Renee Good by ICE officer Jonathan Ross has become a kind of Rorschach test. Some see a senseless killing. Others see an officer defending his life. I've seen the videos, and it's not clear to me why he appears to be in the path of the vehicle more than once. When you approach someone in a vehicle, in a law enforcement encounter, there's very basic steps you take to ensure the officer's safety and to de-escalate the situation. But the day after the shooting, Vice President J.D. Vance put the blame squarely on Renee Good.
7:12It's a tragedy of her own making. Homeland Security officials have accused Good and her wife of, quote, stalking immigration agents and impeding their work. I said go get yourself some lunch, big boy. Top federal prosecutors in Minnesota resigned in part, sources told CBS News, because they were told to investigate the actions of Renee Good and her wife. rather than Officer Ross. Shame! State investigators were blocked from the investigation altogether. Can Americans trust what's coming out about the status of this investigation right now? The rhetoric that's coming out from a lot of our politicians is to not trust us, which is very odd to me when a lot of Americans would rather believe what they see on TikTok compared to a government agency.
8:07We spoke to ICE's Marcos Charles, who oversees arrests and deportations nationwide, including Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis. Could you see why some Americans might think that what's happening on the streets of some of these cities leads them to see ICE's feeling emboldened right now? I would tell those people or ask those people to become educated on what we do and how we do it and what our authorizations are and the laws in general. Videos of confrontations between protesters and immigration agents seem to go viral nearly every day. They have a right to observe, record, and object to police activity.
8:52Do they have a right to get in an agent's face and call them a Nazi? People have a right to say disrespectful things. As a professional, I have an obligation not to take that personally and not to retaliate. However, they cannot physically obstruct law enforcement from performing a function. Those things are illegal. This past week, the Department of Homeland Security posted a message from White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller telling ICE agents, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties. Does that mean that immigration agents can go into American cities and carry out immigration enforcement with no accountability, no consequences?
9:39I'm not going to comment on Mr. Miller's statement as far as in the context that you're asking. However, I will tell you that everywhere we go in the United States, our officers are out there conducting enforcement actions, and they're doing it lawfully and with professionalism. But scenes like this in Minneapolis, where one officer drags a woman and another points his gun at bystanders, have raised questions about their conduct. No one has been disciplined in any of these actions? No, no. I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear you say that. If you assault one of our officers, an assault would be putting hands on one of my officers, spitting in their face, pushing them, you're going to get arrested.
10:22I don't think most Americans would disagree with you on that. What concerns a lot of people is some of the images that they've seen. There's a perception out there that immigration agents in Minneapolis and many other cities are acting with impunity. You're not seeing the entirety of the situation. Not only that, mainstream media is picking up those social media posts and putting them out as real news without looking at the whole story. We did look into this story. Six days after and two blocks away from where Renee Good was killed, Alia Rahman, a U.S. citizen, was trying to get to an appointment at a traumatic brain injury clinic when she came upon ICE officers who were blocking traffic after arresting four people.
11:15We reviewed footage of the entire incident. Rachman's lawyer told us she was overwhelmed by conflicting commands from ICE.
11:31In the chaos, you can hear her say she is disabled.
11:45Chief O 'Hara hadn't seen the video before we showed it to him. Oh, my God.
11:59Um, you were shaking watching that.
12:05Obviously, I don't know why law enforcement officers initially approached the vehicle. It pisses me off to see that, to see men doing that to a woman who's disabled. It pisses me off. If those cops works for me, they'd have a problem right now. Marcos Charles of Ice had a different take. He said Aliyah Rahman was given repeated warnings. She was arrested but never charged. Our officers are told that they give one warning to follow the lawful instruction to stop impeding. If she did not obey that lawful order, then she was going to get arrested. You know, I showed this same clip to the Minneapolis police chief, and he said if those cops worked for him, they'd have a problem.
12:53We're not Minneapolis PD. Are you bothered by seeing American citizens getting detained in these operations? I'm bothered by seeing people take action against my officers, using vehicles to try to ram them, assaulting my officers. Our officers are humans, you know, they're people. The Department of Homeland Security released these images of injured ICE officers. According to the agency, attacks on ICE officers nationwide jumped from 19 in 2024 to 275 last year. In many cases, those injuries were sustained as agents were carrying out what ICE calls targeted enforcement. In Minneapolis, many residents say it seems to be less targeted every day.
13:48American citizens are getting stopped and questioned, including a woman walking down the street. Ma 'am, where were you born? It doesn't matter where I was born. I belong here. I am your citizen. And this Uber driver. I can hear you don't have the same accent as me. That's why I'm asking you. Oh, so you're going by accents now? People have been stopped for simply appearing to be Somali or appearing to be Latino or appearing to be foreign. And it's concerning because we also know we're not getting these stories from Irish folks and Norwegian folks here. Our officers are conducting targeted enforcement, looking for the worst of the worst.
14:27If they encounter anybody in the area of which they're operating, they are okay to talk to those people. They've been authorized to talk to anybody that's around there and establish citizenship. How is that targeted enforcement? If they were in that area looking for a target and they were en route or coming from that target and encountered that individual, they are authorized to talk to somebody. How do you define the area? Officers are walking down the street, driving down the street, the entire city of Minneapolis. Is everybody potentially under suspicion? No. Nobody's under suspicion, but we're looking for those targets.
15:07And again, if we walk, encounter somebody as we're walking up to a building, as we're en route to that building, that's still part of that operation as they proceed to that target. On Friday, sources told CBS News the Justice Department is investigating the city's mayor, Jacob Fry, and the state's governor, Tim Walz, both Democrats. The allegation that their public statements about ICE enforcement amount to criminal interference. To ice? Get the f*** out of Minneapolis. Fry and Walls called the investigation political intimidation. What could happen today, tomorrow, to bring this temperature down out there?
15:49I think it requires the president to say, we're still going to go after the worst of the worst. But we're not going to be treating American citizens in ways that risk destroying a beautiful American city.
16:11I'm Emma Greed, host of Aspire with Emma Greed, a podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. From culture-shaping voices like Mel Robbins to leaders redefining success like Tracey Ellis Ross to game-changing entrepreneurs like Mark Cuban, Aspire is about mindset, ambition, and doing the work that actually moves the needle. If you're ready to raise your standards and take charge about the life and career you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Greed, and Odyssey Podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts. Nicolas Maduro, the former president of Venezuela, now sits in a federal jail in New York awaiting trial.
16:50After a high-stakes raid, the White House touted Maduro's capture as a blow to narco-terrorists, who it says flooded U.S. streets with drugs. The repression of the Maduro regime, over more than a decade, forced 8 million Venezuelans to flee—nearly a million of them—to the United States. Last year, in the biggest U.S. immigration crackdown in recent history, hundreds of those Venezuelans were deported to El Salvador, a country most had no connection to. The White House claimed they were part of a violent gang, and designated them as terrorists. The administration invoked a centuries-old wartime power, the Alien Enemies Act, to rapidly deport some of the men.
17:34Between March and April of last year, the U.S. sent 252 Venezuelan men to a brutal maximum security prison in El Salvador known as SICOT. You will hear from two of those men. They described torture, sexual and physical abuse inside the prison. Since November, 60 Minutes has made several attempts to interview key Trump administration officials on camera about our story. They declined our request. Tonight, our report from Inside Seacott. It began as soon as the planes landed. The deportees thought they were headed back to Venezuela, but then saw hundreds of Salvadoran police waiting for them on the tarmac.
18:24Shackled, they were paraded in front of cameras, pushed onto buses, and delivered to CICOT, El Salvador's notorious maximum security prison. When we got there, the CICOT director was talking to us. First thing he told us was that we would never see the light of day or night again. He said, welcome to hell. I'll make sure you never leave. Did you think you were going to die there? We thought we were already the living dead, honestly. We met Luis Munoz Pinto in Colombia. He was a college student in repressive Venezuela and hoped to seek asylum in the United States. In 2024, he says he waited in Mexico until his scheduled appointment with U.S.
19:14Customs and Border Protection in California. During that interview... They just looked at me and told me I was a danger to society. You have no criminal record? I don't even... I never even got a traffic ticket. Nevertheless, he was detained by customs. He says he spent six months locked up in the U.S., waiting for a decision on his asylum case when he was deported. One of 252 Venezuelans sent to Seacot between March and April. Inside, he says, their hands and feet were tied. Forced to their knees, their heads were shaved. There was blood everywhere, screams, people crying, people who couldn't take it and were urinating and vomiting on themselves.
20:02When you get there, you already know you're in hell. You don't need anyone else to tell you. He says the guards began savagely beating them with their fists and batons. Tell me about what they did to you personally. Four guards grabbed me, and they beat me until I bled, to the point of agony. They knocked our faces against the wall. That was when they broke one of my teeth. CICOT, the terrorism confinement center, was built in 2022.
20:35As a key part of Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele's sweeping anti-gang crackdown. The massive prison, designed to hold 40 ,000 inmates and its harsh reputation, are a point of pride for Bukele, who regularly allows social media influencers to tour it.
20:58Guards show off cramped cells where metal bunks are stacked four high. There are no mattresses or sheets. Inmates said they had no access to the outdoors and no contact with relatives. International observers warned SECOT was violating the U.N. standard for minimum treatment of prisoners. And two years ago, during the Biden administration, the U.S. State Department cited torture and life-threatening prison conditions in its report on El Salvador. But this year, during a meeting with President Bukele at the White House, President Trump expressed admiration for El Salvador's prison system. They're great facilities, very strong facilities, and they don't play games.
21:45In March, the U.S. struck a deal to pay El Salvador$4.7 million to house Venezuelan deportees at CICOT. These are heinous monsters, rapists, murderers, kidnappers, sexual assaulters, predators, who have no right to be in this country, and they must be held accountable. The U.S. government said these people are the worst of the worst. These people are migrants. And the sad reality is that the U.S. government tried to make an example out of them. They sent them to a place where they were likely to be tortured to send migrants across Latin America the message that they should not come to the United States.
22:26Juan Papier is a deputy director at the non-profit Human Rights Watch. In an 81-page report released in November, the organization concluded there was systematic torture and other abuses at Seacott, and that nearly half of the Venezuelans the U.S. sent there had no criminal history. Only eight of the men had been convicted of a violent or potentially violent offense. How do you know they weren't gang members? We cross-referenced federal databases, databases in all 50 states in the United States, and also obtained criminal records in Venezuela and in the countries where these people lived. And the information we obtained in the United States is based on data provided by ICE.
23:13So ICE's own records said... ICE's own records say that only 3 % of them had been sentenced for a violent or potentially violent crime. 60 Minutes reviewed the available ICE data. It confirms the findings of Human Rights Watch. It shows 70 men had pending criminal charges in the U.S., which could include immigration violations. We don't know because the Department of Homeland Security has never released a complete list of the names or criminal histories of the men it sent to Seacott. Rapid deportations have been a key part of the Trump administration's immigration overhaul. The administration considers anyone who crosses the border illegally to be a criminal.
23:56Illegal crossings are now at a historic low. But some immigration attorneys say the administration has used flawed criteria to justify deportations. I have some tattoos. None of them have anything to do with any criminal group. I explained to them, saying that I didn't belong to any gang, to which the agent responded, but you are Venezuelan. 60 Minutes reviewed this document agents use to assess Venezuelans. A person with eight points was designated as a Trendy Aragua gang member and a portable. Tattoos, an immigration officer suspected of being gang-related, earned four points. But criminologists who study gangs say tattoos are not a reliable way to identify Venezuelan gang members because, unlike some Central American gangs, such as MS-13, Trendy Aragua does not use tattoos to signal membership.
24:59Venezuelan national William Lozada Sanchez was also deported to Seacott. He told us the guards there also accused Venezuelans with tattoos of being gang members. He detailed months of abuse and being forced into stress positions. So you had to be on your knees for 24 hours? Yes, because they put a guard there to watch us so that we wouldn't move. And what would happen if you could make it? They'd take us to the island. What's the island? The island is a little room where there's no light, no ventilation, nothing. It's a cell for punishment where you can't see your hand in front of your face. After they locked us in, they came to beat us every half hour.
25:44and they pounded on the door with their sticks to traumatize us while we were in there. The torture was never ending. They would take you there and beat you for hours and leave you locked in there for days. Some of the deportees described being sexually assaulted by the guards. They were hitting your private parts? Sí. With a baton? No. No, they tugged at them with their hands. And they did that to multiple people? To most of us. The men say they grew weaker by the day. They claim the prison lights were left on 24 hours a day, making it difficult to sleep, and that food and medicine were often withheld.
Read the full transcript
26:27Did you have access to clean water? They never gave us access to clean water. The same water from our baths and toilets was the same water that we had to drink and survive on. If we had serious injuries, When the doctors examined us, they told us that drinking water would heal it. So they're telling the injured prisoners to drink water, and the water's filthy. Super filthy. The sicker and more injured we were, the better it was for them. In late March, about 10 days after the first U.S. deportees arrived, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem toured the prison. Did they speak to anybody, any of the prisoners?
27:10Never. Not with any of the detainees. They never spoke to us. We only saw the cameras. At some point, Secretary Noem went to another area of the prison to record this video. First of all, I want to thank El Salvador and their president for their partnership with the United States of America to bring our terrorists here and to incarcerate them. There were men standing behind her, heavily tattooed. Who are those men? Do we know? We know that those men in her video are not Venezuelans. They are Salvadorians, probably accused of being gang leaders, probably people who have been in jail for many, many years in El Salvador.
27:48Human Rights Watch was able to confirm that with the help of this intrepid team of students at UC Berkeley's Human Rights Center. All the visible men have either an MS on their chest or a 13 or an ES for El Salvador, and all those gangs are associated with El Salvador. Not the Venezuelans. To help verify the deportee's stories for Human Rights Watch, the team of students combed through open-source data for weeks. Students are trained in advanced techniques and follow strict international standards for obtaining digital evidence that can be used in courts. Analyzing satellite imagery, they mapped the prison and identified the building where the Venezuelans were held.
28:31And remember all those influencers who filmed inside SICOT? one toward an isolation cell. These are the rooms of solitary confinement. That matched the description of the so-called island where the deportees described being tortured. And they get absolutely nothing to use to sleep or to rest. Just pure calm. A show and tell of the armory confirmed Cicot had the weapons the Venezuelans say guards used on them. What we did see in these videos was the use of the T-batons. on prisoners. Additionally, we also saw the use of painful body positions. They were showing that off in the videos. And they do that, it's sort of a practice.
29:16But it was this interview with the prison warden that proved to be most helpful. The light system is 24 hours a day. One of the questions that we had was, are the lights on 24-7? He said, yes, they are. So he's talking about how hot it can get in the prison. So there's this sort of pride around the poor conditions and around the suffering. Using extreme temperatures or light to disorient inmates is also prohibited under UN standards. I think one of the things that the work of this team has really shown is that a lot of these stories can be believed. Alexa Koenig is the director of Berkeley's Investigations Lab, which trains students to research war crimes and human rights violations.
30:03And it's those little details that I think then, if you can bring that together with the physical evidence, I think you have the strongest possible case for accountability, whether it's a court of public opinion or at some point in a court of law. The Department of Homeland Security declined our request for an interview and referred all questions about CICOT to El Salvador. The government there did not respond to our request. In July, after four months, the 252 Venezuelan men were finally released from CICOT and sent back to Caracas in exchange for 10 Americans that had been imprisoned in Venezuela.
30:43The Trump administration has arranged more deals, some valued at millions of dollars to offload U.S. deportees to other so-called third countries, nations to which they have no connection, among them war-torn South Sudan and Uganda, which have well-documented histories of torturing prisoners. 60 Minutes has repeatedly asked the Department of Homeland Security for the complete records and criminal backgrounds of all 252 Venezuelan men the U.S. sent to Seacott. It would not provide them. This past week, DHS told us, We are confident in our law enforcement's intelligence, and we aren't going to share intelligence reports and undermine national security every time a gang member denies he is one.
31:34That would be insane. Because of this, we relied on the ICE data that is available for our reporting. Of the 252 men, that data shows that 33 had been convicted of a crime in the U.S., again, eight of them for violent or potentially violent crimes. Another 70 had pending charges, but we don't know the nature of those charges because DHS refuses to share that information. Neither of the two detainees in our story has been convicted of any crimes in the U.S. Nine days ago, DHS sent 60 Minutes a photo of William Lozada Sanchez's left arm with this swastika tattoo. When we interviewed Lozada in November, this is what his arm looked like.
32:20He told us he got the offensive tattoo at 15 and didn't know what it meant. He claims he regretted it and had it changed just before the U.S. sent him to Seacott. Five gang experts told us that swastikas and 666, another tattoo on Lozada's arm, have no connection to the violent Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua. In a statement to 60 Minutes, the White House said, President Trump is committed to keeping his promises to the American people by removing dangerous criminal and terrorist illegal aliens. The administration's statements are available in full online. DHS deflected all questions about abuse allegations at Seacott, saying the men were not under U.S.
33:07jurisdiction while in El Salvador. But last month, a federal judge ruled that the U.S. had maintained what's called constructive custody over the Venezuelans who were sent to Seacott under the Alien Enemies Act. He ordered the Trump administration to give those men the due process they were denied. In a declaration to the court, Secretary of State Marco Rubio explained in part that bringing the deported Venezuelans to the U.S. for hearings or holding remote ones at this time would risk, quote, material damage to U.S. foreign policy interests in Venezuela.
33:54Now, Holly Williams on assignment for 60 Minutes. Australia's infamous for the variety of ways its wildlife can kill you – deadly snakes, spiders and jellyfish. But when it comes to inspiring fear, Australia's saltwater crocodiles are in a category of their own. They can grow to more than 20 feet, way over a tonne, and have a bite force strong enough to crush a human skull. Saltees, as Australians call the apex predators, live across swathes of the country's north. They're protected by law, and because of that, their numbers have surged in recent years, creating friction with another species – humans.
34:43In the tropical city of Darwin, the sunsets on the beach are spectacular, though most people stay well away from the water. Darwin's surrounded by crocodile habitat, and salties are known for being territorial. A quick dip in the sea would be over in a flash if you ran into this creature. So it's just luck? Yeah, luck. You could go for a swim here and be fine. I wouldn't go for a swim, no. On the shores of Darwin's idyllic harbour, crocodiles sometimes show up in backyards. Anywhere they get too close to humans, Tom Nicholls and his team of government rangers have the job of removing them.
35:30One of those crocs that doesn't want to open his mouth. They're known as problem crocodiles, though catching them is fairly easy in cages baited with wild boar meat. It's getting an angry salty out of a floating trap with a rope and a zip tie that's an art form. Nichols told us this six-footer wasn't fully grown yet but could easily kill a human. Now, this size crocodile, he wouldn't kill you by biting unless he bit you in a certain place. but he would drown you quite easily. He'd take you down and underwater and then he'd come back up and then start spinning around. And that's what they call the death roll?
36:15The death roll, that's correct. That's how a crocodile took off half of Nicholl's left hand just over 20 years ago in this exact spot. With the crocodile, if he didn't spin, I would have been all right. But trouble is, he's spinning, he spun all my hand around. You operate just fine with three fingers on your left hand. Is there anything you can't do? Yeah, pick my nose with my left hand. All joking aside, salties are the largest reptiles on the planet. Much bigger than alligators, and according to some scientists, the Australian crocs are the world's most aggressive.
36:55But that didn't protect them from hunters. The huge reptile is mastered. One of 33 have captured on this exciting trip. By the 1970s, they were so close to extinction, with just a few thousand left, that Australian officials banned nearly all crocodile hunting. Since then, the populations bounced back to over 150 ,000 and counting. That's a conservation success story to some. A menace to others. Crocodiles are way misunderstood. They've survived the times of the dinosaurs. and that is a question of respect. They're also pretty scary. Not really. Humans are far more scary. We kill each other for a lot less, for money.
37:44And crocodiles only kill for food. Trevor Sullivan keeps ten saltwater crocodiles in his backyard behind patched-up chain-link fencing. Can I stand up on the back here? Oh, my God.
38:05He feeds them whole chickens by hand. He rescued most of them from crocodile farms and research facilities, including the biggest one, Shah, who's over 120 years old and missing part of his jaw.
38:23Trevor, what would happen if this fence wasn't here? Nothing. What do you mean nothing? I've fed him in there. I've gone in and fed him. You go over the fence? Yeah. With a 16-foot crocodile? He's not a problem. That one is. It's all right here. It's all right, yeah. Sullivan's a self-described conservationist and told us he keeps crocodiles to prove they can coexist safely with humans. They enter to their name. They come when you teach them. You can train them. Get them into a routine. They're not just pet. They're family. I'm sorry. They're family? They're family. OK, so just for the sake of clarity, they don't see you as food?
39:04No, I bring food. You're also a big chunk of protein. Yes. Dogs eat meat. They don't generally see you as food. Rangers are searching for a killer crocodile... The truth is that crocodiles do kill people, though we were surprised to learn that only around 50 deaths have been reported in Australia since hunting was banned half a century ago. That might be because of public education campaigns warning people to keep a distance. Many of those who've been killed by salties misjudged where it was safe to swim or go fishing. But there's also anger in Australia that the law protects crocodiles instead of people.
39:51They die. Yeah, well, so do we at the end of the day. Bob Catter is a member of Australia's parliament with a reputation as a combative lawmaker. You're going to get a big bath. Order. You're going to get a big bath. Order. Order. You're a very popular man in these parts. One of Catter's most controversial positions is that he wants the crocodile hunting ban repealed. Yes. Yes. His electorate is about 1 ,000 miles southeast of Darwin, Much of it's farmland, where cattle are sometimes eaten by salties. When you were growing up in northern Australia, did you used to go swimming in the rivers here?
40:31Absolutely. You know, every Saturday, Sunday, you'd be down the river. Can the children do that now? Can they go swimming in the river? No way. No way you would risk your life if you went near any of these waterways. He told us he's tempted to risk arrest by shooting a crocodile himself. You think the law is evil? Ah, yes, absolutely. A law that puts the value of crocodile over a human being, that is a definition of evil. Bob Catter believes that legalising crocodile hunting would make waterways safe again and turn a profit by attracting big game hunters. Other Australians disagree with his science and his economics.
41:16They say salties are worth more alive than dead. Darwin's roaring tourism trade relies in large part on crocodiles. Wow, look at that, nice. Great time to see crocodiles, Dinger. Beautiful. Oh, yeah. Just outside the city, you can pay for a close encounter with some cold-blooded killers. He'll be waiting for you to look away. He'll move real quick. Oh, my God!
41:46Believe me, if he grabbed hold of you, that's it. You're gone. Humans and crocodiles have shared this land for around 50 ,000 years. We drove to Kakadu National Park to meet some of Australia's Indigenous people. Kakadu is bigger than Connecticut, home to a few hundred people and around 10 ,000 crocodiles. Thank you. This way, yeah. Gleeson Nabulwad is an Indigenous Australian who works as a river guide. It looks like something in there. Like other traditional owners, he's permitted by law to hunt crocodiles for food. How do you hunt it? Spear. With a spear. Is it good eating? Yeah, they taste like fish.
42:31Like fish. Nabulwad and his friend Robert Namarnyulk told us Indigenous Australians disagree about salties, just like other Australians. Some favour commercial hunting. Others prize them as a totem or spiritual emblem that should be left alone. It's like a crocodile and us. We've been together for a very long time. You have a special connection? Yes. Trevor Sullivan is also of Indigenous ancestry. He believes living with saltwater crocodiles is not just possible, but a privilege. It's the best fun. Being able to coexist with saltwater crocodiles, the most dangerous predator on Earth, and your croc attacks are almost non-existing.
43:17But isn't one fatal attack of a human being too many attacks? Well, what are we supposed to die from? Millions of years before people ever set foot on this wild land, Australia was croc country. As humans debate their future, the crocodiles are a lesson in survival.
43:48I'm Scott Pelley. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.
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From the publisher
Cecilia Vega reports on rising tensions following the fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE agent. Sharyn Alfonsi speaks with some of the Venezuelans sent to CECOT, one of El Salvador's harshest prisons. The Australian saltwater crocodile population is surging, creating friction with their human neighbors.
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