Extended Interview: Patrick Clancy

0:00Patrick Clancy was a married father of three living in Duxbury, Massachusetts, when his life changed forever on January 24, 2023. He returned from an errand to find the unimaginable. His three children killed at the hands of his then-wife, Lindsay, who had also attempted to take her own life. Lindsay Clancy's murder trial became a national obsession, sparking conversations about mental health, criminal fault, and how the medical system fails mothers. Her lawyers don't deny that she killed the children. They argue that she couldn't be held responsible because she was suffering from postpartum psychosis.

0:39But that hasn't stopped online sleuths and influencers from speculating that Patrick murdered the Clancy children. We met Patrick Clancy in New York City for a conversation about his grief, his ex-wife's struggles with mental illness, and the social media frenzy surrounding him. This is an extended version of that interview. Tell me about Lindsay and what she was like when you guys first met. We first met in the summer of 2013 in Boston, and she was just a fun-loving, outgoing person. I think our first or second date, we flew a kite on a beach in Boston. And I think we had the same goals in life.

1:21I think we both wanted families. We both wanted kids. and after two and a half years we were engaged. What kind of mother was she? She was very hands-on and I think she was at a, she reached that point that she sort of dreamed of. And Callan, your youngest, was born in May of 2022? May 26th. May 26th, 2022. How soon afterwards did you realize that something was wrong with your wife? Probably about five months. And so, yeah, it was October and she went a few nights without sleeping. What did she tell you that she was experiencing then? She came downstairs one morning and she said, I didn't sleep at all last night.

2:10And so I said, that's awful. And I'll take the kids to school. You just focus on getting caught up on sleep. And what happened from there? Like, how did it get worse? Well, she went another night without sleeping. So she went to the hospital after that. And they tried to give her some medications to help with that. But it was a bit of a spiral for the next month, month and a half. What did she tell you she was experiencing? Severe depression, a lot of anxiety, and the sleep didn't improve much. She improved a little bit, but she was still struggling to get sufficient sleep each night. And so it was just hard to catch up.

2:58Did you know anything about postpartum mental illness before this experience started? No. I could piece together what it was like to be really, really anxious or depressed, but I didn't know how to manage a postpartum illness. I think mental illness has this ability to be tragically deceptive. So I'm sure there are things that I didn't see. What kind of support were you guys getting from outside the home besides medical help? Like, did you feel supported by your families? What was that situation like? Yeah, both our parents were trying to help as much as they could. We had friends in town dropping off meals.

3:39Lindsay was pretty open about it. You know, people at the kids' school were aware of it and they were trying to be helpful. So there were people who were trying to help us out. Did it help? I think so at the time, yeah. Yeah, when you have that support, when you have people rooting for you, it can be helpful. Patrick and Lindsay Clancy were living in the seaside town of Duxbury, Massachusetts. They were married six years. Months after the birth of their third child, Lindsay made repeated emergency room visits. She admitted herself to a program for patients with postpartum depression and was discharged after a day of treatment.

4:22She was also prescribed an escalating number of prescription drugs. Patrick said he struggled to help his wife navigate the medical system. What was the low point a few months in? I think December. December was a big struggle for her. Just a huge lack of sleep, deep, deep depression, intrusive thoughts. And at the end of that month, she went to the hospital. It was New Year's Eve when Lindsay checked herself into McLean's psychiatric hospital. She was treated for depression, and days later she was released. The family celebrated Cora's birthday on January 7th. She told you she wanted to come home.

5:06She did. Seventeen days later, the unthinkable. After taking Cora to a doctor's appointment earlier in the day, Lindsay asked Patrick to run an errand and pick up dinner. And when he returned home, he said he found her lying in the backyard, her throat and wrists cut, paralyzed after jumping from an upstairs window. In the basement, he said he found his children strangled. Cora and Dawson were dead. Callan somehow survived and was airlifted to Boston Children's Hospital. So I didn't have all the details of Callan's condition. I just knew that they got a heartbeat back. So I remember that night, I really thought there was a chance that Callan would live.

5:50And I remember just thinking, just give me one. Just give me one kid. And I would raise him as best I could. And I would give him the best life I possibly could. And I'd tell him about his brother and sister. And I was holding out hope for that. And then when I got to the hospital, I saw the doctor, I saw the look on her face, and I knew that it wasn't gonna be a good prognosis. Callan's heart kept beating for four days. I'm so grateful for those four days that I had with him. And I'm so grateful he hung on.

6:30Did you talk to him in those four days? Yeah. Can you tell me anything you said? I said, I'm so sorry.

6:42And I got to hold him. I got to lay down next to him.

6:51And he died in my arms. During those hours with Callan, Clancy sat and wrote tributes to each of his three children, typing with one hand while he held his baby's hand with the other. He said he was afraid if he didn't write about them, they would be forgotten. But it wasn't just about your kids. It also had something that I think a lot of people found at that moment incomprehensible, which was something about Lindsay, where you forgave her. I saw headlines that said, you know, killer mom and baby murderer monster, and none of them were accurate. I believed that it was her mental illness that caused that.

7:32So I shared those words. And I think when it comes to forgiveness, I also felt that if I didn't get there, I would be eaten up inside forever. Did you ask Lindsay why she did it?

7:51I asked her if she remembered it. And what did she say? She said it was like a dream. And she remembered it much in the way you would remember a dream after waking up. Do you feel like you failed in some way in this period, or do you feel like you did the best you could? I think I did the best I could with what I had at the time. and I live with the outcome. I live with it every day. Has she ever asked for your forgiveness?

8:26No, but I gave it to her. What do you feel like people should know about postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis? And maybe especially what do you think husbands and fathers and partners should know? I think the biggest thing, and I think what most people can agree with is that it doesn't discriminate. It can happen to anyone. I've met with so many other victims, people who have had the disease, and fathers who have become victim to the disease and lost children. And it's best detected early. We can say accountability. We can say justice. Like, what do you think that means in cases like these where there's an illness involved?

9:13I think we can find a compassionate way to deal with these tragedies. And that doesn't mean no accountability. It just means that we recognize the suffering and the stigma, and we try to find a way to prevent this from happening in the future. That's always how I've looked at it. In the weeks after the tragedy, the crowds of mourners dispersed and Clancy's world emptied out. There was no family routine, no bedtime stories, no purpose. Everything just came to a screeching halt. And then there was a day where I, really without thinking, I drove by their school. And it was at the exact time that all of their friends were getting dropped off.

9:58And I was just, I couldn't be there anymore. Did you ever have suicidal thoughts yourself? Yeah. There was a time where I didn't think I would live to see my 35th birthday, and I was completely fine with it. In April, unable to stay in Duxbury, Clancy said he moved to New York City, seeking anonymity. Five weeks after I moved to New York on May 26th, I had to figure out how I'm going to celebrate Callen's first birthday. and how do you celebrate your son's first birthday months after he's passed away? And so I go to St. Patrick's Cathedral. I light a candle and I say, I love you, buddy. And I walk out on Fifth Avenue and I start crying my eyes out.

10:50And nobody cared. And was that good? Were you grateful for that? I thought this is where I need to be. I can grieve. Before moving, he had emptied the house in Duxbury, a home filled with the most visceral reminders of his children's lives. What kind of things did you keep? Some of their toys. A lot of personal items. Just things that reminded me of them. Reminders now purposefully placed around his Manhattan apartment. A baby sloth that Cora carried everywhere. A photo of Callan wearing a bow tie almost bigger than him. Dawson's beloved and battered helicopter. Those are their real handprints.

11:36In their hometown of Duxbury, Clancy found another way to keep them close. This brand new playground, built to feature touchstones for each child. Sloths for his daughter, a firefighter for Dawson, and down the way, a toddler's playpen for Callan. Are you in touch with people in the town much? Yeah, I still have close friends in town. You know, my kids are buried here, and I still have family here. But it's hard, and it's difficult coming back to this town, even though I loved it so much. Is it difficult now? Is this difficult? It was hard coming in, and yeah, it's emotional. You have memories.

12:21You have dreams. Do you feel like you feel your kids' presence? All the time. In places or in yourself? I always say they live within me. I talk to them. What do you say? Help me. All the time. Do they help you? I like to believe they do.

12:54it's a way I stay connected to them

13:00you dream about them yeah all the time tell me a good dream I remember early on having a dream maybe six months or a year after. And I'm in the kitchen at the house, and Cora walks in. And I just look at her, and I, it was like, I basically just said, where have you been? And she comes up to me and gives me a big hug. Those dreams are so real. It's, it's like I'm lucid in those dreams.

13:41What should people know about Cora? Cora was cautious. She was shy, but she was so good at making friends. I used to see her at birthday parties and at school when I'm picking her up, and I could see the friendships that she was creating, and I just loved that. I loved that about her. She loved princesses. She loved to do art, less into sports, more into art. And that was pretty much her personality. At one point she actually went to school and convinced her teachers that her name was Sophia, because she loved Sophia the First so much. So I went to pick her up one day and they were kind of like, is Sophia her nickname or what's the story here?

14:32And I said, no, her name's Cora. but that's just how she was. How about Dawson? Dawson helped me realize that not all of your kids are the same. They have different personalities and they got along so well. They were best friends but Dawson was much more adventurous, much more daring. He was so funny and he was so smart. I remember driving with him once and he just started counting from 1 to 20, and he's only a year and a half old. So I was pretty impressed. I struggle with that myself, honestly. And then all of a sudden, he starts counting from 1 to 10 in Spanish. And he just constantly blew my mind.

15:16So we had a special bond. We drove everywhere together. I took him to the Home Depot, and I took him to the fire station to see the fire trucks. He was really into trucks, really into working-class people. And he was my buddy. And what about Callan?

15:40Callan was just one of the happiest babies. His birth was pretty easygoing. He was born in the middle of the day and it didn't take long. I mourn Kellen in a way that I didn't really get to know him as well as my other kids. How are your children with you now? Like, how often do you think about them? Every day. Every day, all day. I always say they live within me. I have a lot of little reminders. I do a lot of things to keep their memory alive. And it's hard sometimes. I've had people say to me, you know, Pat, you're really quiet today. But they don't know the things that are playing over and over and over again in my head.

16:37They don't know that the scenes are playing over and over again from that night, or that the grief is just so heavy that it makes me quiet. Are there scenes that play that you like? Yeah. That you want to play? Yeah. Give me a scene, a good scene. I think when I did a lot of travel, I missed traveling with Cora. That was a great trip. Going to San Francisco, just the two of us. didn't have to bring a lot of stuff she just had a backpack it was her first time on a plane where she could actually appreciate it so I miss those times and you know if I'm working on a project I miss having Dawson by my side because that's what he always did he'd grab his tool belt and we'd be hanging out and I miss putting Callan on my knees and having him kick my stomach like he used to do or just sitting in his playpen with him.

17:43When you think about them this way, is it good or is it painful or is it both? It's both, but I love the memories. I don't avoid the good memories. I really never do. The bad ones I avoid. I really try not to think about them. I mean, it's traumatic, and that can be overwhelming. I've never felt like the good memories are overwhelming. I hang on to those. What kind of help did you get? I think the thing that helped the most was EMDR. Tell people what that is. I don't know what it stands for. It has something to do with rapid eye movement. It's a little unusual. They put you right back in that place that you've been trying to avoid for years.

18:43And you face it head on. And it's unpleasant.

18:51But they get you used to dealing with that.

18:57and eventually you're better at processing it. And they've used it for survivors of 9-11 and October 7th and some horrible events. And after I did that, all of those sessions, the waking up screaming, the horrible dreams, they mostly stopped. I mean, it was like a miracle.

19:31In July of this year, Lindsay Clancy went to trial for the killing of her three children. Her lawyers argued that she was suffering from dangerous postpartum psychosis and couldn't be held responsible for her actions. I'm going to declare a mistrial. Her trial ended with a hung jury. Meanwhile, Patrick was suddenly facing a trial by TikTok. talk.

19:52Patrick Clancy:This is why I think Patrick did it. I have so many questions. Not Lindsay. Patrick did it. You googled how to commit suicide. An online swarm of sleuths and influencers has been dissecting every detail of the case, developing theories that portray him as uncaring, unfaithful, and even the murderer of his children. How do you respond to people who have that idea about you? It's deeply harmful to the legacy of my children. It is a huge distraction from what really matters here, which is perinatal mental health. And it's done real harm to real people, myself included, but also others. How does it affect you directly, the stuff that's out there online?

20:40It's painful to see, and it makes it difficult to be in public. And it's possible that some of those people, after seeing lie after lie after lie, they start to believe it. And that's what we're left with. One of the catalysts for these theories was Patrick's apparent stoicism on the witness stand. Testifying is very difficult. On the second day, a lot of that was focused on the night of January 24th. 24th. We did take a break right before they played the 911 call, which I knew was going to be just horrific. And I went to a back room and I started having this massive traumatic panic attack. My heart was pounding and they put me in an ambulance.

21:28They offered me some medication, but I said, I don't want it because I want to go back and I want to finish this so I can and be done with this. I went back and I finished the testimony. Clancy says reaching out to survivors and experts in the field of postpartum health has helped him. I started reaching out to people that postpartum support international. I reached out to psychiatrists, experts in the field, and I asked them, what do you think happened? And we had some pretty deep conversations. Those conversations helped Patrick come to terms with what happened. And so too has Dr. Rachel Dannis, a fertility doctor who says they met in January of 2024 in a run club in New York.

22:18They got to know each other over coffee. Pat pulls out his phone to pay, and I noticed this adorable photo of children as the wallpaper. And I just asked, who are those cuties? And Pat had said, those are my kids. and then I think I asked if they live in Massachusetts and Pat said they died. And this is just at the cashier. So what did you do then? I guess I had so many questions and yet at the same time I didn't know exactly what to ask. I think I asked their names and ages and then the conversation just continued from there. Did you imagine that this was actually a first date that could lead to love and marriage?

23:03No. So you thought, this is a guy I want to be friends with and help? I thought, I hope Pat wants to be friends and let's remain friends. It remained that way for the next few months, until Patrick came to one of her races and met her sister who has Down syndrome. There must have been a moment, maybe it was a different moment for each of you, right, where the switch flipped and you were like, this is something we're doing. Yeah, it was the day of that half marathon, I think, for me. I had my sister with me after the race. I had, and then she met Pat. And I think you can tell a lot about someone when they're interacting with a person with special needs.

24:03Pat was really friendly, really warm. And I, again, though, wasn't taking it that seriously, but we were all sitting at a picnic table. And later, I didn't know at the time, but Pat had taken a candid photo of me with Lauren, and we were just hugging. Sorry. It's, I just love her so much, and Pat really saw what matters to me. What did people say to you? when you guys started officially dating? Everyone paused.

24:44Understandably so. I say everyone. I had told like a couple of close friends. And I think family members were picking up on it because they would ask what I'm doing that weekend or that evening. And I would mention Pat. So people were catching on, and I think people were worried. And what did you say to them? What did you tell people about Pat? I would say and still say it was the first time Sundays felt like Saturdays. So I didn't have a reason to stop. Life just got a lot calmer for me.

25:30And while I did have hesitations, you know, Pat was saying that he wants the same things that I do. Rachel and Patrick got married in April of this year in Central Park. We talked a lot about what Pat carries, the grief that he carries, along with the good memories. Do you think you help him carry that grief? I hope. Do you think she helps you carry that grief? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 100%. It's... My life has changed since I met Rachel in such a positive way. I always try to take some of the weight from Pat. I always want to strive to do that. I know I can't fix, I can't bring his kids back. But if I can honor them and allow Pat to grieve, but also just continue to honor them in the present, I guess that's all I can do.