Confident Ignorance with rapper, novelist, and filmmaker Logic

28:04Like no matter what Drake does, they're not even going to listen to it or pay attention because they have a predisposed notion of whatever it is that they just don't like this person. Pretty much everybody's going to watch a movie. Like if you're into a specific type of genre of movie, even if you don't like Brad Pitt, but some crazy movie comes out that everybody's talking about, you'll watch it. And guess what? Even if you don't like him and he crushes it, you'll be like, yeah, he did good. He did okay. Like it's a different space and it's a visual space that I don't think I've ever been able to, uh, partake in.

28:35And I'm glad I could, sorry, very long winded, but no, I'm on a journey of self-discovery. So you're asking questions that are really making me think, man. Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory. Uh, going on a Easter egg hunt with my mom. I was probably about three and a half. okay what do you remember I remember walking in this park by our apartment complex picking up easter eggs by a creek and then getting a turtle I found a turtle and she let me bring it home because I was like I have to bring this turtle home and then I put it out on the balcony and the next day it was gone and I think it jumped off but now later in my life I realized I went to sleep my mom said I'm gonna get this turtle yeah crazy I know you had a difficult childhood but you know there were some happy moments what was it about all of your memories that you think that this one stands out I don't know it's probably just more so the first one that came to mind you know you said give me a memory and that that's one that popped out that was happy um yeah but I there's not too many of those if I'm being honest but play with me here a little bit so like what is it about that memory that that is happy that makes you smile I mean I'm sure there were other happy things that you've forgotten um probably that for me personally in that specific moment there was no you know screaming or yelling and money issues or this or that or blah blah blah blah it's the fact that it's it's it's that it was a happy memory because there's so little man so it's just the fact that that other shit wasn't happening in this specific memory you know it It was just me and my mom.

30:18Another one is being under a weeping willow with my mom and eating lunch, having a little picnic, which is crazy. Say more? I remember that, yeah, just by this lake in Montgomery Village on the way to Germantown in Maryland. But that's it. Like, I have snapshots. I don't have, like, complete, like, and then we did this and went here. Like, that doesn't exist. So interesting. So now tell me a memory, a very clear memory that I can relive with you as if you're telling, as if I'm reliving a movie with you. Come up with a particularly difficult one. Oh, here's a good one. So when I was about four and a half, almost five, there was this, these two kids, these kids, these like little white kids that lived in the neighborhood and they never wore shoes, which I thought was weird.

31:12So this is actually going to go deep. So they never wear shoes and they'd always walk outside without shoes. And they would always try to convince me to take my shoes off. And I was like, no, I don't want to take off my shoes. Then there was this one day they were like, hey, Bob, we have a cigarette. Go ask your mom for a lighter. And I was like, what? And they're like, yeah, tell your mom our mom needs a lighter. Because we told our mom your mom needs a cigarette. And I was like, okay. So I was like, okay. So I get it. And then we end up walking through these woods near the back of our apartment complex.

31:52And we have to go through these thorn bushes and they end up crying. And they start crying and they're crying because they don't have any shoes on. And me, I'm just like, fucking told you, man. You know what I mean? Don't be walking outside with no shoes. And then we make it to this specific space with this other kid, Ian. And they start smoking the cigarette in the bush. Ian doesn't want to do it. he's like Cartman, like I'm going home. So he goes home and they're like, come on, Bobby, do it, man. Just do it. So I take a puff and he's like, no, you got to inhale it. And I'm like, bro, we're five years old.

32:22What do you know about this? Right. So I'm like, okay, I do that. It's so disgusting. Ian's mom tells all of our parents, my mom sits me down. She's like, I can't believe you were smoking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. This is a good memory. And so she sits me down with my stepfather who actually was killed by the police in prison or the guards long story short whatever that's a different situation and he sits down his name was tony bransford he has these big ass fucking hands like cinder blocks right he was french and uh and black so mixed guy very very brown skin chocolate fella and he had his voice to him you know what i mean she was like you know what bobby so you know that i'm not messing around tony's gonna take you in your room and give you a whooping.

33:06Don't you ever do this again. So he takes me into the room and I'm crying already. I'm terrified. You know, this guy is like the kingpin from Spider-Man. Like I'm like freaked out. Right. And he comes and he goes, damn it, Bobby. And he slams the door and he turns around and he goes, listen, when I was your age, my dad, he used to beat up my brothers and sisters and my mom. And he would beat me up really, really bad. And I always promised that I'd never put my hands on a child. And I was like, okay. And he goes, but you got to make your mom think I'm kicking your ass in here. Okay. And he goes, so, so just pretend like I'm beating you.

33:43So he's clapping and I'm like, Oh, shit. Oh, Tony, no. Oh, stop. And he goes, good job. Good job. Oh, Tony, no, please. Oh, oh. And he goes, okay, that's good. All right. And then he leaves and I'm still in there. I'm like, oh, oh. And he comes in and he goes, shut up, shut the hell up. I can't be in here kicking your ass and out there at the same time. And I was like, oh, okay. And it was one of the sweetest things that anybody's ever done for me. That's beautiful. So what I find really interesting is you use the word terrified to describe the film. You use the word terrified to describe what you're going into with Tony.

34:25And both the sitting under the willow and going egg hunting are not really fully complete memories. They're these little snapshots. But the only thing that the snapshots give you value is there were moments when life was okay. There was an interruption, you said, to the screaming, the yelling, the violence. And so I wonder if, you know, that this idea of facing terror and not in an aggressive way, but finding a way around and through it is part of this. That you have a weird relationship with terror. The experience you have with Tony is not dissimilar to the experience you have on the film, which is absolute terror, but thanks to someone else, thanks to the guidance and support and advice of other people, because you said that, you said the best thing about the film is it wasn't just me.

35:20there's all these people who help me get through this. Yeah. And to some degree, you've a little bit become Tony, which is you're sort of helping people face their fears in a way that they didn't expect. Like they're standing there petrified and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to get you through this. And you look at some of your work. It kind of does that. It's kind of a helping hand. I just find that interesting. I just think I like to help others because in many ways, I didn't have anybody there for me. You didn't, and you did. There was moments, though, you got to understand, there was nobody that I could ever go to and talk to.

35:58There was nobody to guide me. Like, I never had a person there, like, in my life, you know? So, there would be specs, you know, of, like, a good person would enter, but not for a season, barely for two days of a year, if you will, in this metaphor I'm trying to use. And I would keep these little things from them. And so I've spent millions of dollars taking care of other people and supporting people and their families and this and that and all that other stuff. And that's great. But I find myself at a very selfish point in my life in a good way, like in a good way where I'm really just focused on me and my family and just trying to figure shit out.

36:45Because I don't know at all. I appreciate your sense of discovery. The other thing you talked about before, which I was drawn to, what was the term you used? Invasive creativity. Yeah. I think I suffer from invasive creativity as well. Because I'll lie awake at night, I'll get three hours or four hours of sleep, and people are like, why couldn't you sleep? I'm like, oh, my mind wouldn't turn off. Or I woke up in the middle of the night to pee and then the mind starts up again, and I couldn't turn it off. And it's not bad. I'm not depressed. but rather it's like a pinball machine of ideas and I don't want them right now.

37:22It's intrusive thoughts as well, you know. I really don't think... But who doesn't have intrusive thoughts? No, exactly. Our minds wonder. We think about things we don't want to think about. You know, we replay the events of the day. We create false narratives about people or about ourselves. Like, it's all intrusive, isn't it? Exactly. I think the thoughts that become conscious are the ones that we grab on and then either obsess over or kind of begin to dig into. So any thought, right, that plops into your head, is it really yours? You know what I'm saying? It's like when the apple fell on Benjamin Franklin's head or whoever the hell it was.

38:01Isaac Newton. Yeah. Benjamin Franklin was the one with the electricity. Yeah, yeah, one of them motherfuckers. Anyway, so it's like, you know, it's like, is it really like, oh, man, an apple hit me And then and it's like, maybe, yeah, sure. But it's like that thought hit him. And that's how I feel all of our thoughts are. They're like like apples falling. And then it's up to us to take it. You know, think about how many great ideas you probably forgot. You know, so many times I wake up in the middle of the night, I have gnarly dreams and I'll like wake up from the most intense, vivid. I know every detail and I go pee and then I come back in bed and completely forgot it.

38:40So it's like, think about how many things that enter our mind almost unconsciously that we don't actually grab onto. It's a gnarly thing. But creatively, that's how my mind works. But it'll be like, oh, okay, I'm at a gas station. Like, what if this guy, like, took out a gun and then I, like, John Wick, like, flipped around and then took the gun and, like, shot him in the foot. And then we got in this crazy fight that I, like, stabbed him with a pen. And then I'm like, what the hell? And I'm just trying to buy a can of Coke. I'm like, where the hell did that? What was that? But it's like, then I'm like, that'd be kind of crazy.

39:14I should write that down and put it in a book, you know, or do this or that or whatever the case may be. Do you carry a notebook? Do you write things down? My app. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just do notes. It's in my phone. And you do it constantly? It's filled up with random nonsense? Bro, I have like tens of thousands of notes. Like it's not even a joke. One of the things that I think that I wish more people would do, because I agree with you. A lot of us, we're all creative in some way, shape or form. and we forget more ideas than we can remember, is to carry a device or a notebook at all times and write them down.

39:49And the thing is they don't have to even go back and read them. Sometimes the act of writing it down reinforces it and makes it play a role later on. The number of times I've gone back and read my notebooks, I carry a notebook in my back pocket. The number of times I've gone back and read my notebooks and I realize that the thoughts have reoccurred in other shapes and forms, and I'm not sure they would if I didn't write it down. That's really cool. Yeah, no, I love it, man. It's, it's a wonderful thing. Like I'm sitting on at least 20 script ideas for a film. I'm sitting on, you know, like three or four fully fleshed out films that aren't in script form yet.

40:25You know, I'll come up with ideas for lines. You know, I could even go through my shit right now. What do I got? them. Let's see. I have so many notes. It's, it's like actually ridiculous, ridiculous. Let's go into lines. So I have different lines that I'll just come up with.

40:48Right here, my lyrics make people third month. So I guess that's a line that I ended up coming up with that turned into something else. Here, let me see. Give me, give me one moment. I'll explain. Yeah, this is a, this is actually one of my favorite lines I've ever written. Engaging in bullshit. I want no parts. Wrapping in my jeans ain't no starch. I could rhyme without rhyming and still make the people third month. So March, right? You know what I mean? Which is cool. And then I go fifth month. I continue to ensue. Cut you like Gensue. You don't know the shit that I've been through. So that's like, may I continue just these little, little lines.

41:28and I'll write those. I'll go on and on and on. Some of them live. Some of them don't. Let me just see if there's any one. Let me give them one more. Let's see. Oh, damn. These are like whole things. Here's one. I stay with a pocket of duck mouths. That's fire. Bills. Like basically I got guys, you know, just some rap and braggadocious shit. But I stay with a pocket of duck mouths. That's pretty cool. I've never heard that. It's like reverse rhyming slang. Yeah, it's fun. You are very inspiring. I have to say, this is the first time you and I have met. You're inspiring, dude. You just had me rethinking what it means between purpose and goals and shit.

42:08I'm like, yo, this is, you know, that's one thing. Not to interrupt. I apologize. But like, man, do I love learning. So thank you. Because meeting people like you is very special. I am a student. I don't know it all. What I do know, I'll be quick to let you know I know it. But you got a lot of really wonderful gems. So I just want to say thank you, man, because I'm all ears. I'm hearing you do. Thank you. I appreciate that. You touched upon something that my favorite leaders say. All my favorite leaders, they all say, look, trying to figure it out. They all say, you know, not sure we're getting this entirely right.

42:46They all say, you know, I've done things like this before, but this is the biggest thing. I don't know. I'm not 100 % sure. it's confidence, self-doubt, you know, which is the, and I think people confuse uncertainty and doubt with lack of confidence and they don't go together. You know, I think weak leaders say, oh, I don't know what I'm doing. This is the first time I've ever done anything like this. I don't even know where to begin. And the great leaders, the ones are like, look, I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm figuring this out as I go along. And you get a sense of like self-confidence and doubt go together really, really well.

43:20And where it gets bad is when we have a, if they tell everybody how great they're at everything, it'll make them feel better. But the opposite is true, which is owning doubt and having confidence in doubt and having confidence in lack of knowing is incredibly empowering. And the more that I've owned my stupidity, I don't know that I'd call it stupidity. I think I call it ignorance. Big difference. Well, okay. The more that I've owned my ignorance, some of it's stupidity. you know like I remember when I was younger I got those things confused regularly where I had to prove how smart I was so that people would take me seriously and just probably I got lucky that some people saw past that nonsense and were able to dig a little deeper that's just being young we all that's just being young but I think one of the things that a little bit of experience a little bit of age provides is the incredible power that comes from owning ignorance and taking pride in your ignorance and being fascinated and curious in your own ignorance.

44:21Because you ask more questions and you're more curious. And I just love that. I'll give you a funny story. Please. That sort of captures the value of ignorance. I did this little challenge that somebody challenged me to, and I can challenge anybody who's listening to the same challenge because it's more difficult than you think, which is don't tell a single lie, absolutely zero lies for the next 48 hours everybody thinks they're super honest until you take this test right like but damn we talking like like like like your auntie is like how do i look in this dress and she kind of you know she might be oh shit so you gotta be like damn girl your leg fucked up let's not confuse honesty with meanness okay but so we saying white lies are okay you wouldn't say you look fat in that dress you'd be like i'd like the other dress on you better but she only showing you to one dress.

45:12Auntie, I think, I think that there are other things that would suit you better. Okay. Right. You don't have to be mean, to be honest. You just to be honest, to be honest, you just have to tell the truth. And so, yeah, every little white light, like we all do it. You know, you're sitting in a restaurant having a meal and you're complaining to your friend that this meal is cold, this meal is salty. And then the server comes over and goes, how is everything? And everybody looks up and goes, yeah, it's fine. Everything's good. Yeah, everything's fine. Lies. Absolute lies. That's some Seinfeld shit right there.

45:38That's absolute lies. And so now I I don't like make a point to go out of my way to like complain about food unless it's like really, really, really inedible. Yeah. But if, if it's just a little bit like annoying, you know, and a server comes over and goes, how is everything? I'm like, oh, okay. If I'm honest, it's a little salty, you know, wasn't going to tell you, but you asked because that's the deal I've made. Right. Anyway, but I digress. I took this challenge from someone not to tell a single lie for 48 hours. Try it. It is incredibly difficult. You don't realize how many stupid little white lies we tell on a regular basis.

46:12And I happened to have this meeting coincidentally within this 48 hour period where I was in, I went to Washington and I had a meeting with the head speech writer for a senior member of government, right? Flex. And the speech writer comes in and she sits down. And the first question she asked me is, how much research have you done on the congressman. Now, on any other day, I would have said a little just to save face, just to not look like a fricking moron, ill-prepared and unprepared for my meeting. Right. She asked me the question. I literally went to my, I thought to myself, shit, you know, cause I'm promised not to tell a lie.

46:49So she goes, how much research have you done on the congressman? And I said, none. And she said, okay, let me tell you then. She wasn't testing me. She was finding out what my baseline was. And depending on my baseline, then she would explain everything that I needed to know. And if I had lied and said a little, she wouldn't have told me as much, but she told me everything I needed to know. Now, it went well in that period. In that particular, it could have been humiliating. She could have said, you came for this meeting without doing any research. What the hell were you thinking? That could have happened.

47:18But I learned that telling the uncomfortable truths more often than not, sometimes they humiliated me, but more often than not, I got more information than I would have if I had told a white lie to save face and protect my ego. And this is where I think I started to learn confident doubt or confident ignorance. I kind of like that term, confident ignorance. Confident ignorance is awesome. Confidence, not to be mistaken with arrogance, which some people will try to throw on you and fuck them. And ignorance, not to be confused with lack of intelligence. With lack of self-esteem or self-worth or stupidity.

48:02Ignorance just means I don't know. When I was young, people would talk to me about movies, like older people, not older, older, but like when I'm a teenager and they're like 30. Older than you. Yeah, and they're like, or even other kids, you know, like, oh man, yo, you heard that new song, blah blah blah blah blah blah you know when they said these lyrics and i'd be like yeah yeah yeah because if you go no i haven't heard it they'd be like what you ain't heard that oh man like or yo you see that movie no oh you ain't see that movie like they kind of make you feel a certain way and i think that's that's mainly people looking for power looking for their own sense of self-worth of like oh i i know this thing you don't know yeah but i think a great teacher is excited to find out that you don't know something so they can tell you.

48:53And also, I think it takes a great student to be honest and say something when they don't know. So I can't tell you. And I'm talking idols. Like, I'll be around. Like, I'm having a drink at Seth MacFarlane's house. And he's like, let me tell you, you know, you know that song by Billie Holiday, right? And he's like, you know, the one, the little jingle that goes da-da-da-da-da, whatever. And I'm like, nah. And he's like, really? And then he'll tell me about it. You know, and like, that's exciting. That's what's fun. And even going to my film, like, yeah, I was terrified. Like, I remember sitting down with my first AD, assistant director, my like right hand, right?

49:31His name's Kevin Brown. Fantastic guy. There's that word again, by the way, terrified. Just like, go on. And we were in, I was thinking about doing an album called Terrified, full of like a bunch of types of music that I've like never done before. because it really scares me anyway so um so i remember we're like days away from filming and we're doing shot listing i'm doing that with my my uh my dp kevin fletcher all this other stuff and i asked kb i say how do you shoot a scene like yo i'm the director dog like you know what i'm saying and he just looks at me and he's like oh let me show you and he just takes out paper and he's like okay you got your person here and your person here and you do over the shoulder coverage here and this and that you got your wide that's pretty much it and i was like oh okay cool but then i but there's an important nuance here right you didn't say um how do you shoot a scene yeah you're right right because then he's like what am i doing here right you just went hey how do you shoot a scene and there's that confident ignorance again.

50:39Right. And by the way, for those who want to practice confident ignorance, there's two ways you can dip your toe into it. When somebody says, have you heard these lyrics? You can say not yet. I add the word yet sometimes. And the other one, I, when they say, yo, have you heard these lyrics? I'll say, tell me. Cause now I'm empowering them to give me something that I don't know. So they still get to have the power dynamic if they want it, but I don't feel stupid. I love that. Tell me. Another thing. Confident ignorance. I really love this. Let me tell you the story. So I am about to do this film, right?

51:17And I was talking to my producers, Liz Destro and Jordan Monsanto Muse, two badass women. I was going to go with this different director, a dear friend of mine. And we ended up couldn't being able, we weren't able to do it. And they were going to say, Bob, we were going to tell you that you needed to do it anyway. And I was like, what? No, we need to find somebody else. And they're like, no, Bob, like, you have to direct this. And I was like, what do you mean? Why? And they're like, because honestly, you see every page, you know, every piece of dialogue, you have the vision for it. And in my mind, I was like, I don't, I've never directed in my life.

51:52I, and I was very honest with them. I was like, yo, I can act. I can write. I was like, I don't know that I can direct. I've never done it. And they were like, Bob, trust us. We would not put you in a position. You're spending millions of dollars. You're not going to fail. You can do this. And I was like, all right, if you really think I could do it, all right, fuck it, I'll do it. And then as soon as I got into pre-production, all I realized directing is truly is just having vision. And I've been like, yo, I've been directing for 15 years in the studio with people, telling people, taking what's in my head, talking to someone who can destroy the guitar and going, okay, you know, when you go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, can you actually go boom, boom, boom, boom differently and kind of slide it?

52:37And they're like, oh yeah, you want me to take the eighth note down? And they're like saying all this jargon. I'm like, yeah, I don't know what the hell you just said, but if you can give me what I just asked for, then we can do that. And it's about it, you know, bringing in these people that are masters of their own craft. Like I tried, I'm not a dancer, but I tried my hand at choreography because I like watching dance and I know what's good and I know what's bad. I just got to know now what kind of dance was it? This is modern dance, modern dance. So like jazz hand vibes? No, that's like jazz.

53:09This is modern. What the hell is modern dance? Okay. I'll take you to a performance one day and I'll show you. Let's do that. You can Google Pina Bausch or Anna-Theresa von Kiersmacher. See, man, you just sound smart. You'd be making me feel like, damn, I'm like, just do smart. No, it's just, I know, you can say the names of people that you like and the arts that you like, and you'll make, you'll sound smarter than me. It's just, I like dance. I love it. Okay, please continue. So anyway, I decided to, Tammy Stronach, she's pretty awesome. Anyway, I decided to try choreography because I know it's good and I know it's bad, but I have no facility or technical capability whatsoever.

53:45So I did what you did. I cheated. I hired two dancers who are really, really good. And I said, this is what I imagine. Can you make it do that? And they did something. I went, no, no, no, not that. Lift your arm higher. This is what I, this is the thing. And then I came up with the scene. I was like, so this is the emotion that I'm trying to do. It's like this. And I explained the emotion. I explained the relationship between the couple and they, they heard it and they got it. And within a few minutes, we choreographed a very simple, but really good little short little piece that was visually incredibly appealing.

54:21And the greatest compliment I got was they liked it too. Oh, wow. That's awesome. And to your point, I have no facility. I can't tell them technically what to do. I just know it when I'll see it. And I think to your point about vision, which is vision lives in our imagination and I can see it, but nobody else can see it. But if I can take words on a page, movements from a dancer or visuals on a painting, and somebody can help me do the thing until it matches the thing that I can see, then I think I've created something worth creating. But I think many of us hold ourselves back because we have the vision, but we don't have the facility.

54:58So we just don't do it. When you say facility, what do you mean? Like you said, like the guitarist was like, oh, I'll move my B7 to this. And you're like, Like you don't have the technical understanding of the chords of the guitar. You just needed to go, you just needed to do that. Slide. And over the years, you've learned some of those technical terms and you've learned what they mean. And so you can talk in short, when you understand the technical terms, it's a little more efficient because you can talk in shorthand. Like I need you to move the slide from B7 to B5. It's like, God, I'll do it.

55:30But the point is, is that's just language. That's just vocabulary that helps you operate more efficiently. But if somebody hasn't taught you the technical stuff, if you don't have the technical ability, it doesn't mean you can't create. As long as you can see something that you want created, somebody else can help you make it if you ask for help. Yeah, but that's what was fun working with my DP because he was like, he literally said to me, just like these dancers said to you, he goes, I've worked with a lot of directors in my 56 years. And he goes, I've never worked with someone who had as much vision as you.

56:02And when he said that to me, it like almost made me want to cry. because I was like, whoa. And what I'm really realizing is I work in a very avant-garde, kind of obtuse manner, you know what I mean? Where it's like, I don't give a shit what the studio does. I don't care what they say. This, this, this. I'm just like, man, this is what I'm doing. This is how I do it. And I think people find it refreshing, you know what I mean? That honesty. Of course. Because I'm going to be a thousand with you, man. I think it might be fun to take that no lie challenge, but I'll be hella honest. I might not be honest about somebody hairline, you know what I mean or something like that if they're well why did well look no lies means doesn't mean only a few lies when it suits you again you can be honest without being mean but you should take the challenge but but going back to what you just said I think what that director is responding to is and I love that term again which is the confident ignorance which is what you express was confident ignorance and so he got to use what he had because you express the fact that you didn't know and you needed his help.

57:02And that's what made a team, which is you have vision that he doesn't have and he has capacity to help your vision come to life. And your confident ignorance made him valuable and made him great versus other directors who probably don't have vision, but they want to show that they're as good a DP as the DP, you know, which is not confident ignorance. It's just overconfidence. It's really just ego because now you're just fucking up the film. You know what I mean? I think confident ignorance is such a magical thing. Confident ignorance and invasive creativity. I love it. Invasive creativity, I would argue, is the pejorative, is the downside, is the bad side of it.

57:43But is it? No, but is it? Because it's those intrusive thoughts that keep us up at night. But is it or is that our superpower? I don't know. And it's merely like the tax. I love my pinball brain. People are like, what's it like to be in your brain? I was like, ever play pinball? I love my brain. My brain is the source of creativity, but it's also the source of sleepless nights occasionally. And sometimes I would like to turn it off. Not because I hate it. I just want to go to sleep. What are those things where all the flights are on? What is that called? You go to an airport and it's like... Oh, yeah, that flip board.

58:13It's called a flip board. That's what my head's like. That's what comes to mind visually. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Hey, Bobby, I could talk to you forever. I could talk to you forever, but yes, I get it. Well, no, if we keep talking, we have to rebrand it and make it a completely separate podcast. I was about to say that, man. Hit me up. What's up? I'll do that all day. It's good as money. No, it was good. Thanks for just being so open and so confidently ignorant. It's such a magical thing. That's such a cool thing. I think I'm going to start saying that. Thank you for having me on the show.

58:45I had a wonderful time. You're very cool and nice. And shout out everybody behind the scenes that's helping you out. Thank you to everybody listening who stayed and wanted to hear a little old me story. Appreciate it. And hopefully you'll have me back and I'm here anytime you need it. You need a glass of milk. You want to borrow some sugar. I got you. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Likewise, the feeling's mutual. All right, cool. Peace out. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website, simonsynic.com for classes, videos, and more.

59:21Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other. A Bit of Optimism is a production of The Optimism Company. It's produced and edited by Lindsay Garbenius, David Jha, and Devin Johnson. Our executive producers are Henrietta Conrad and Greg Rudershan.