Matthew McConaughey on How to Fall Back in Love with Your Life

24:46I'd say that's more selfish to take care of your neighbor with your choice as well as taking care of your own. Is investing and making sacrifices today for our children's future more selfish or is to absolutely whore and rampage all our resources today so they'll be left to nothing? Which one's more selfish? I would say the first is more selfish. If you love your kids. I mean, again, you talk about infinite game. So much of it's based on how far out can we project. Say more about how it's more selfish. Like kids, you love them, right? You give a damn bunch of kids. If you're going to make a sacrifice today of some resources you have, or maybe sacrifice some time of something that you want to do.

25:32You could do it another time, even though you really want to do it. Just maybe spend time.

25:36Simon Sinek:with your kid. Maybe that's it. Maybe it's that practical. You're going to sacrifice that. And hence, in hope, spending that time, more time with them will help them become more healthy adults as they go out into the world on their own in the future because of the time they got, quality time they got to spend with their father. Or if it's more magnanimous, you get a resource that we have right now in our life that we're using up to go, man, you know, we're getting ours now, but boy, we're depleting the future for my daughter's generation when she becomes, or her kid's generation. But if I sacrifice some now, they'll have more later.

26:12So which one's more selfish is what I'm saying.

26:15Simon Sinek:There's data on this that when people invoke, you hear politicians do it all the time. When we invoke, it's the right thing to do for our children. What would you do for our children? What about the future, preserving the future? And nobody ever makes the right decision with that framework, right? Because we always think about the here and now. But there's data on this that when people have a sense of where they come from, you're actually better at making long-term decisions because you don't want to let down those that came before you. You don't want to make their sacrifices go in vain. So if you know about the sacrifices your parents or your parents' parents made on your behalf or that benefited you, you want to uphold that legacy, and that actually makes you a better decision-making.

26:57Simon Sinek:So actually seeing yourself in a continuum. In the continuum, yes. If you do that, isn't that ultimately more selfish? Or I ask you this because my pastor thinks I'm pushing a big square rock up a big steep hill with this redefinition of selfishness. I'm trying to reclaim it to go, no, everything we do should be more selfish. We should be more full of ourselves. We should project further. If we can just believe that the rewards of what we do now, if we can project further out for when we may get them. And we may not even get them in this lifetime. Maybe it's our kids, maybe it's the next generation, maybe it's four generations now.

27:34Isn't that delayed gratification a more selfish act?

27:37Simon Sinek:If I play the role of your pastor, I think that you are playing with the paradox. Yep. You can't choose a side because it's a paradox, right? So every moment of every day, you are both an individual and a member of a group. You're you and you're a member of a team, a family, a church, whatever it is. And every day you're confronted with small or big decisions. Do I put myself first at the sacrifice of the group? Or do I put the group first at the sacrifice of myself? And there's two schools of thought. Protect yourself so you can help the group. Protect the group so they can help you. You made the neighbor analogy.

28:17Simon Sinek:But the reality is it's both and it's sometimes paradoxical and it doesn't always line up. And this is part of the difficulty of being human. So I think to say that's more selfish or that's more selfless, the answer is yes. Like selfless acts will benefit you and selfish acts may benefit them. And I think it's the paradox of the juggle. And the goal is not to let the scale tip too far in either direction. because there's also a difference between being selfless and martyring yourself where you're giving and giving and giving so much of yourself where you get no sleep, all you have is stress because you want to be the best person in the world.

28:55Simon Sinek:That's self-destructive and that's just stupid. And so saying no sometimes is the best thing you can do for the greater good. Do unto others as you would have them. Do unto you. Love yourself. as your neighbor. That's directly just going back to the self-ish. It's accepting that even when I'm a part of a group, a community, a society, a church, a team, even in those moments that I'm a part of a whole, I am also me. And I think to try and reconcile the paradox perhaps people can write whole books about one side versus the other, and I think it's a fruitless exercise. The answer is both. And the only way you know you're doing a good job is you can only check in on your selfishness by checking in with yourself.

29:57Simon Sinek:You can only know if you're doing a good job on selflessness by checking in with others. And I think the way you reconcile the paradox is by constantly checking in with others and constantly checking in with yourself, that you get feedback from others. Are you okay? Thank you for being there for me versus you selfish asshole. Right. And check, because if you only check in with yourself and never check in with others, you run the risk of being costically, toxically selfish versus toxically selfless, which is toxic to yourself. So I think that as social animals, we forget that we have feedback mechanisms.

30:34Simon Sinek:And I think perhaps this is why you've become an advocate for positive selfishness is I think you have a practice of checking in with yourself more than most. Okay. I've been told that many times. And I would guess that where you've over-indexed on arrogance by accident is because you were checking with yourself and forgot to check in with others. Yeah. That's when my self has been turned into certainty. Right. Where you humbled yourself excessively, it's because you took the counsel of your dad or others too much at the loss of checking in with self, which I would, which at the most basic level is, you know, gut check.

31:16Simon Sinek:Yeah. The most basic level is does this feel right? Yeah. Did you cultivate checking in with yourself? Like what age did you start journaling, for example? Start journaling at, uh, sincerely journaling at 17. Okay. what happened at the age of 17 that you said i'm going to start writing it down my life well which is a checking in practice that's what it is yeah yeah yeah yeah so i think it's going really well and i was you know i was the guy in high school who was yeah i was popular yeah i won most handsome i had a four handicap in golf i had a job with some cash in my pocket i was dating and best girl at my school.

32:00But I was also, you know, good friends with the quarterback of the football team. But I was also one of the only guys that was friends with Betty Rice, who everyone thought was the only class Gothic lesbian. You know, I was also the guy that got in fight because the gang tried to pick on Ernie, the short little black kid with the big afro, and they kept thumping him, and I just was kind of, he was the underdog. But I noticed that things were going well for me. For some reason, I think partially I do with my buddy Rob Bendler, who, because I was such an extrovert and on the weekends would love to just go party and chase girls.

32:35He was my first friend that I met in art class. And he was 120 pound wet Jewish kid who he introduced me to. Hey,

32:47Simon Sinek:we ever watch movies on a weekend night? You ever read a book? So we became buddies. It was great because my mom would call us salt and pepper. I would bring him on Friday night to our tailgates in the country where we drink beer at the kegger and dance and chase girls and listen to loud music. And then on Saturday night, we'd go to his house and watch a movie or two and talk about, he'd introduce me to a philosopher book or something. We'd play ping pong and just hang out. And so he invited an introspection that I didn't know was there, but I had already. So I start writing things down about like, why are things going well?

33:24Well, I noticed in ways that I was handling preparation for my grades So I could make mom and dad happy I didn't give a damn my grades It doesn't need to make A's to make mom and dad happy If they're happy, then my life's easier Then I'm getting more of what I want My curfew gets extended I can go play more I got more freedom So I got that game I don't remember how the Liberty Bell cracked But I passed that test You know what I mean? So I'm figuring this out I'm also noticing at this time Oh, this high school GED shit don't mean nothing, bro Just got to make some good enough grade to get into a college.

33:54And I also noticed at that time at 17,

33:57Simon Sinek:college don't mean nothing either, bro. So I started to kind of think past that, even at 17, and write things down in my life. I was like, these are working. And I believe these will continue to work. Now, cut to a year later, I'm exchange shooting Australia. I'm lost, lonely. That handicap, the girl, the 45 bucks in my pocket, the no curfew, the straight A's, red light, stop. I'm in the middle of the country and bump, bump, nowhere with a very odd family and I'm all alone. I don't have my buddy Rob to hang out with, talk about on Saturday night. Although he was one of the only people I wrote.

34:32I don't have my friend or that girlfriend or my affluence that I had on Friday night for my confidence to bounce things off. I ain't even got my parents to bounce things off. So while I'm losing my mind over there, I'm alone, basically. I'm going mad. but something in me is telling me this is good the harder this gets i was finding a certain pride and honor independence i felt like i was paying because i was like boy this every day i go through this it's a better reward on the other side i don't know what it is but i'm going to keep

35:09Simon Sinek:believing that now was i tricking myself for partial sanity yes was i surviving on a certain optimism? Was it delusional to an extent? Yes. But I would say in hindsight, it happened because I don't think I'd be here with the live bab if I didn't have that year. I wrote in earnest in that year because I was my only friend I could talk to. So I wrote 14 page letters to me. I returned 16 page letters to me. I was in a Socratic dialogue that was awesome, but I look back at it Now they're hilarious, son. Talk about too many adges and adverbs with kid who's lost. It was like 19 line run on sentences with more L Y's on more words.

35:53It was like, oh, you're you've lost your grease. But I stuck with it. Yeah, I was forced to figure out who the hell I was. I was forced to talk to myself without having any exterior stimulus or that I could trust coming to me. And it was a full year Which is a long enough time

36:13Simon Sinek:To get through the other side of it I stayed in hell and I didn't have a parachute to pull And as you know if we stay in it long enough Sometimes you come out the other side I had this experience with writing green lights I looked at my past I had shame I had guilt, I had embarrassment The first two weeks of sitting down with my journals Since I was 18 years old Were hell to look at And then on the 12th day All of a sudden I'd read something I did And I went, and I laughed. And all of a sudden, I started looking at all the other shit I did, and I started giggling. And I started noticing all the other shit I fucking did.

36:49I was like, oh, it got you here. That time when you were extremely arrogant. Look, six months later, you got humbled in front of a bunch of people. Bam, you got brought down to the ground. Oh, you learned a lesson there. Oh, and I started to notice it was a science to get me to where I am. So I started to laugh at those things that I was embarrassed, shamed, and guilty about. In earnest journaling, started at 17, continued through a hard, hard year at 18. And since then has been, I write when I'm in trouble and I've learned, and I always said early on, don't just pick up the damn pen when things are going shitty.

37:23Pick up the pen when things are going well, because there's an engineering, there's science to it.

37:28Simon Sinek:You have a remarkable relationship with discomfort. And the idea that the things you do in your life are a mechanism to live a life you want to live. Right? So, for example, you weren't necessarily motivated by grades, but by getting good grades, you recognize that your curfew goes up and your parents leave you alone. Yep. So you go through the discomfort of studying, not for the grade, but for what the grade provides. Yep. And you're in Australia in a very uncomfortable situation, and you could have shut down, you could have acted out. But this relationship you have with discomfort and your ability to project the life you want to have, and that you dealt with it in a fascinating way, that, and remember, you're only 17.

38:15Simon Sinek:Right. And I find it so fascinating that in this period of discomfort, you say, how do I lean into uncomfortable here? I'm going to write it down and put my discomfort right on the page in front of me. There's two things I want to bring up on that. One is I found a journal entry I wrote the other day that I said, my life has been more getting comfortable with what I was uncomfortable with yesterday than changing what I was uncomfortable with yesterday. Let's double click that because that's great. It's about getting comfortable with what you were uncomfortable with rather than changing the thing that makes you uncomfortable.

38:51Yeah. Now, here's the challenge with that that I noticed when I was 35 and I'm still working on it. when you have that sort of resilience, you're a repeat offender. You just keep stepping in the same pile of shit and you get up and dust yourself off instead of ever stopping to go, why do I keep stepping in that same pile? Oh, maybe when I turn the corner of this part of the race in my life, I'll weave to the right for the first time. No, I'll step in it over and over and over and go, get back up. And part of that, as I think with most of us, our upfalls are actually our downfalls too. You know, what we're the best at is actually where we can work on the other side of the coin just as much or more in our life.

39:31So good. I can be a repeat offender.

39:35Simon Sinek:Your grit becomes destructive. And part of that creatively is what I have to watch. Yeah. My upfall creatively is I think I can make anything work, Simon. Yep. I got a theory that I think it's a term rather than a theory, I think more, But it goes along with your infinite game and our talk about projection and playing through the immortal, immortal finish line. And I've noticed that I do this and I've been practicing it and sort of find it working on this pattern for a few years called oversight. I oversee everything. Relationships. I come into this. I don't know you that well, but I come into this with a great reverence for you.

40:16I go into projects with a great, incredible reverence for them. even myself and the world the art most people myself included underperform but the reverence that I went into them with I find that I got so much more out of them and for me and out of the project because I thought it could be perfect and transcendental. It got close to genius, maybe even touched in the prophetic areas, but never became divine. But, oh, I wouldn't have got there if I wouldn't have come in with such reverence. And then going, ah, you went for the A, you got the C, instead of going for the C and getting the F.

41:11Simon Sinek:Ah, great. There we go. I think it's a nice way to approach life, which is to give people the benefit of the doubt and have such reverence and respect when you walk in the room and you say, prove to me why you are not deserving of this reverence versus coming in with a cynical attitude and be like, prove to me why I should like you more, respect you more. And because you'll find the evidence, right? Which is if you're looking for someone to be great, you'll find all the evidence of their greatness. If you're coming cynical, you'll find all the evidence of them letting you down. And what it does is it boosts other people up.

41:40Simon Sinek:They want to make you proud rather than prove you wrong. Slight change of tack here, which is, can you tell me something specific that you've done in your career it doesn't matter if it's commercially successful or not but any project that you've been a part of at any point in your career where if every project were like this one you'd be the happiest person alive the latest one and i without knowing it now i'm saying of course i'm saying the latest one because the last thing i'm doing is always my favorite one i've done last project i've done besides one i had one of my first ones, I'm not going to say the name of it, but I just had a project here in the last couple of years that I finished that was not my, that into doing it, it was not my favorite one I've ever done.

42:22Every other project I've done, the one I was doing last was like, this is my favorite one ever.

42:27Simon Sinek:Okay. So what was it about the last project that you just did that you would say if every project was like this one moving forward, literally I'm living the perfect life? The book tour that I took with Poems and Prayers. And I'm not just saying that because that's the book that I've got out there right now. Instead of going to bookstores and signing, I said, let's have some more fun here. And I said, a lot of these poems are musical. They're poetry. They're fun. I like orating them. I like saying them. What if I go? And I remember I was like, oh, my friend John Mellencamp went to unannounced estate parks with a guitar and stood up on picnic tables and just started playing and saw how we gather.

43:04Simon Sinek:I was like, oh, that's a great idea. And I stuck on that for a couple of weeks. I was like, well, let's organize myself a little bit more than that. What if I get theaters? I was like, yeah, I'll go to theaters, see if we see what size I can get some people in. I'll do some poetry reads. And I was like, wait a minute. What if I'm about a musical guest? So within a week, I worked up. Boom. I got a 22-minute opening sermon. And then I invite the musical guest out. We talk about some themes in life about a certain prayer. They play. They accompany. I do 12-song playlists, and it's spoken word prayers that are songs.

43:32I did eight stops with eight incredible musicians. I do a show, New York, fly to Nashville, sleep, wake up that morning in Nashville, 11 o 'clock, show at 6 o 'clock from 11 to 4.30, work on the next day's show, which was going to be in Tulsa. I was always just working on one day ahead, one day ahead, one day ahead, the playlist and what I was going to write. That, a lie, it was like a documentary. So I was only a day ahead of preparation, not months, a day. It was live. It was vital. I think getting on stage and not having the demarcation or the border between communication, which there's four borders in film.

44:11Right. I'm doing someone else's script, someone else's character going through someone else's camera eye and edited by someone else. So there's four filters from my raw expression before it gets to you. All right. Even writing, that's one filter. But boy, the direct line I've never done. I've never done stage before. the direct line of being on stage and that each night and then slowly getting the confidence to go, oh, on the fly, I'm going to update how I communicate with what I'm getting back.

44:39Simon Sinek:But what specifically was it about this tour, specifically about this tour that stands, I mean, you've had a remarkable career. You've done remarkable films. You've had incredible collaborations. You've done collaborations before. You've done all of this. What was it about this tour that outstrips everything else you've ever done. I wrote it. I believed everything I said, and I had so much fun presenting it and sharing with directly. No Memorex, no record. This is it live. It's not to bank away as an asset to put out later. It's one of the best natural drugs I've ever had. Okay. And I was high.

45:21Simon Sinek:Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory. Not like we went to my grandparents every weekend. Something specific that I can relive with you. Okay. Front yard, Getty Street. Busiest street in Uvalde, Texas. Five lanes. Two going each way and one turn in the middle. We lived right on it with no fence to the street. But there was a sidewalk, asphalt sidewalk. And we had St. Augustine grass in that yard and one pecan tree. And in the hot summer, I remember being out. I was allowed to play in the front, even though there was no, I knew not to go past the sidewalk, right? In my dike. Well, I remember being there and under that tree and it being hot and me finding for the first time that, oh, the roots of St.

46:11Augustine's a longer, thicker grass with a deeper root needs more water. No matter how hot the day is, the roots of the St. Augustine are always cool. and I remember that being a coolant for me. Besides being in the shade, I could find shade starting in the middle of the sun on my feet by nestling my bare feet into the roots of the St. Augustine and it would cool my feet, which would then cool my body. I remember thinking that was really cool.

46:37Simon Sinek:So of all of the amazing experiences you had as a kid, good, bad, an amazing mother, sounds like a fantastic experience in school. What was it about this memory that is the reason you chose to tell it to me over all the others? probably because that same afternoon, I heard this sound coming from down the street and Getty Street about a quarter of a mile away. It was going... And it grew louder as it neared me.

47:18and I looked up and I already had a rock in my hand because right when it got in front of the house there's a car and there were four guys in it one of them being my oldest brother and they had the windows down and their asses out the window and just as it got in front of me

47:36Simon Sinek:Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na Fat man Throw that rock out there and they laugh And it fade off Na na na na na na na na Down the street And as much as that drove me and my little pudgy diaper self crazy

48:01How cool is that? My big brother, my oldest brother and his friends took time to pick on me while I was playing in a diaper in the front yard. I knew that was a love letter even then as much as it made me upset.

48:17Simon Sinek:There's something really interesting between those two stories. I'm not sure how to reconcile it, but when you tell those two stories of the tour and then the front yard, there's a lot of connection. There's discovery and self-discovery, like standing in the grass and discovering for the first time these roots that can keep you cool the discovery of view on stage never done stage before the newness and then there's also the reaction which is you get the reaction of the audience you know which you said was intoxicating here that's the outside world that's sort of like you know that that my big brother that i look up to and this is your point about you show up with reverence you know that they take time out of their day, that's a very different perspective than most people have, which is, oh my God, he's thinking about me with his friends.

49:07Simon Sinek:I wouldn't have been able to verbalize that then, but I knew it then. Like as much as I threw the rock at him and wanted to hit that car. It was part of the fun rather than anger, it sounds like. Yeah. I mean, I didn't go sulk about it for long afterwards. Right. I mean, if I had to draw sort of a pattern here, which is there is a self-discovery about you, which is you are very curious about the thing that is you. Yes. And I think that a lot of people go through the world, even if they're curious about the world, I don't think a lot of people are curious about themselves. And when they are, it's when they have to work on something or deal with something because something went wrong.

49:48Simon Sinek:You got trouble at work, you have relationship issues, and now I got to deal with this thing that I've got to temper. But I wouldn't call that curiosity. I'd call that reaction or triage. And you have an ongoing curiosity about yourself. The story you tell about you in high school, like you're this really popular kid, but you want to know why you're popular. You're in Australia and you want to know why you're struggling. And your comfort with all of these themes that we've been talking about, your comfort with discomfort. And I think it all boils down to this common root, which is you are insatiably curious about yourself.

50:24Simon Sinek:Even the discussion about trying to give selfishness a better brand. Yep. There's this pattern that is this book of prayer, a book of poetry, which is really an exploration of self. All of these things, the journaling, you can see the boredom when you're the rom-com guy and you're taking, you're saying yes to shit films, you know, until you stop saying yes to shit films. not because the market doesn't want it. It's because there's nothing to learn for you for you. Yep. Amen. And so I think the lesson that I'm learning from you is less about confidence. It's less about risk. It's less about discomfort.

51:13Simon Sinek:All of these things that I thought it was, what I'm recognizing is for all of us to cultivate a curiosity about ourselves, we're always told travel, see the world, read books, watch movies, ask questions. But how many of us are watching our own movie or asking ourselves questions or traveling with ourselves, watching ourselves? We have a lot of sleep and watching ourselves and we don't have a lot of sleep and being curious and asking ourselves, why did I react that way? And being genuinely objective as best as we can to understand ourselves without being self-effacing. just curious you define something that i is definitely true for me and you and you and you said it in a way because it is different than those other things of confidence or self it's not it's not that it says much you get that all the time oh you're you're you're you seem so confident and i go okay mathematically speaking yeah it's because i prepare so i can relax okay I get that.

52:18But I go, but I suffer bouts, not bouts. I suffer stages of insignificance all the time because I'm bored. I haven't had a new self-discovery or figured a new philosophy that go, oh, that's, oh, that's mine. Now I'm going to, I write all day and it'll be a note. It'll be something. It'll be an exchange I had with someone, a malaprop that'll be funny, a realization about myself or about something that's working in the world for me that is getting a like response or a healthier positive response.

52:54Simon Sinek:That works. I'll try to look for those patterns. I don't even know if I look for them. I think I'm inherently just finding them. People go it's somewhat of a joke but it's not. It's just so self-involved to hear people say about people. I've even been told that. And when I got told that once I stopped I went Well, who else do you think I should be involved with? I think we should be more self-involved. My gap between being the man I want to be and the man I am is because I believe not self-involved enough. And all those self-curiosity of myself may be one of my strongest suits. Of somebody who likes to talk about themselves and dissect themselves, to those who have no self-curiosity comes across as self-involvement, which they mean pejoratively.

53:51Simon Sinek:And I think to your point about trying to redefine words and trying to redefine selfishness, I think it's less of trying to correct them or embrace their words and trying to convert these bad words that are good. You're so self-involved, but self-involved is good. You're so selfish, but selfish is good. But instead of raging against the machine, I think to offer it as a lesson to others and saying, no, what you're witnessing is somebody who is very curious about themselves. And every lesson I have learned about myself is because I'm curious about me and I wish others were as curious about themselves as I have learned to be.

54:22Simon Sinek:Yes. Again, this may be naivete. Why would someone not be really curious about themselves? Or are they curious? They just don't know what to be curious about. I think there's many reasons. I think, one, it's scary because I may not like what I see. And if you don't like what you see, you could run away from it versus saying, good, let me learn more about this. Two, I think it's hard to do because shame, embarrassment are around the corner with some of those things. And so it goes back to be comfortable with being uncomfortable means I can explore myself even if it's uncomfortable. and I think for people to learn to be uncomfortable is a mechanism for curiosity and for some, and I wish this weren't the case, but it is, I think just some people aren't curious about the world or themselves and they go through the world.

55:13Simon Sinek:I can't believe with happiness, but they just sort of go through the world as that happens. It's a beautiful thing to be curious about something and why not start with yourself? Because it's the easiest thing. You don't need to go anywhere else. We have to have or understand our own monologue before we can have a dialogue. I think so too. And we're always so preoccupied with what somebody else said or how they said it. Or if there is self-curiosity, it's more like self-flagellation, which is lying in bed going, why did I do that? Why did I do that? Why did I say it that way? Not with a curious why, but sort of a self-effacing why versus, I wonder why I said it that way.

55:54Simon Sinek:What is it about me And why am I carrying such discomfort and upsetness about the way I said that? And what can I learn so that I improve upon it next time? Which is to offer oneself grace in the moment of curiosity. It's not a judgment. It is, because remember, this is what we tell people. Instead of being judgmental, be curious about other people. We're doing the same thing, which is instead of judging oneself, offer oneself grace and forgiveness. And now be curious about yourself in the same way you wish to be curious about yourself. Yeah, yeah. And you have learned it for whatever reasons, the way you were raised, you have learned it and it has benefited you and you have become a model for the rest of us as why self-curiosity is really a good thing.

56:37Oh, love that deep.

56:41Simon Sinek:All right. I like that. That's a good play. All right. We'll do a couple quick fires. As someone who has embraced reinvention throughout your career, what advice would you give to people who feel stuck in a box that they've been in for years and worry they can't break out of it? Oh, Simon just said it. Be more curious about yourself. I would have said take more risk, but as he said, that would have been the backup dancers for more curiosity for yourself. You've been journaling for over 30 years and describe it as a way to catch the truth. What happens for you on the page that doesn't happen anywhere else?

57:18well it's taken a while for me to get my fingers or my pen to keep up with my mind as i'm writing it live and to keep the train of thought going or sometimes i'll just if it's too much i just got to record it and then translate it memorializing a live feeling that was a maybe a moment in time it speaks a truth across many many many things and if i didn't write it down as most of us do when you first start writing or you're trying to get writing when it's hard is you know you cross a great truth you have a great exchange you hear a great joke you're always like that was so good i'm never gonna forget it there you will and then you forget it so just jot it down that's why i wrote in the opening grants i write stuff down so i can forget it because like because if i don't write it down i'm playing grab ass with what was that thing she said

58:08Simon Sinek:oh that thing sam is so so good what was it now now i'm now i'm just on the hamster wheel rate-gling-grab-ass with my thoughts. Or if I wrote it down, I'm like, ah, there it is. There it is. That's good. McConaughey, what a pleasure. This has been very inspiring. I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing wonderful stuff. My pleasure. I look forward to doing it again and even for even longer. And thank you for the insight and teaching me something or a way to at least understand it better and through your words about myself. Thank you. A Bit of Optimism is a production of The Optimism Company.

58:42Simon Sinek:lovingly produced by our team Lindsay Garbenius, Phoebe Bradford and Devin Johnson subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts and if you want even more cool stuff visit simonsynic.com thanks for listening take care of yourself, take care of each other