Revisited: The Power of Saying "Screw It" with Rob Lowe

9:29Rob Lowe:No disrespect to Russell Crowe at all. I mean, Kiefer Sutherland tours a band. I think I could go up and do a duet with him.

9:38Simon Sinek:Okay, so you decide... I mean, I'm no Bacon Brothers. So you decide to do a song and dance for the opening of the Oscars.

9:44Rob Lowe:can't dance okay

9:46Simon Sinek:okay

9:47Rob Lowe:I mean I didn't get footloose for a reason

9:49Simon Sinek:for a reason right and it doesn't go well is what you're saying it doesn't go well

9:55Rob Lowe:it doesn't go well there was an open letter to the academy the next day signed by like Paul Newman and Gregory Peck and like this was an affront to our sensibility how dare I mean I looked I looked out in the audience and I saw It was the night Barry Levinson won 10 Academy Awards for Rain Man.

10:18Simon Sinek:Yeah. And I literally saw him mouth, what the fuck? Didn't go well. Okay. So you come off stage, you're fully aware of what happened.

10:32Rob Lowe:Here's the other part. You got to have, there's a reason why a lot of actors are egomaniacs and self-centered narcissists because you have to have a little bit of that to inoculate yourself to the indignities that happen daily in a career where you're marked to market every single day right so that part of me was like fuck barry levinston what does he know do you know i mean and then so you go you You go backstage and then you sit there and you're in the green room. And there's Lucille Ball telling you that you're a wonderful dancer and singer.

11:14Simon Sinek:She's making fun of you. No, she loved it. Oh, really? No, she legitimately. But she's also a comedy genius.

11:20Rob Lowe:God damn it. I always thought she liked it. Fuck. You've totally rewritten my own history, Simon. The history I tell myself is that.

11:31Simon Sinek:That Lucille Ball loved me.

11:32Rob Lowe:Everybody hated it except Lucille Ball.

11:34Simon Sinek:Yeah.

11:34Rob Lowe:Now it's just everybody hated it, including Lucille Ball. No, she loved it because she's a comedy genius. God damn it.

11:40Simon Sinek:She legitimately loved it. Young man. So Lucille Ball loved it. But okay, so once you, and then you read the open letter that's an affront to the Academy and all our sensibilities. So is that a humbling or do you have a sense of humor about it? This is what I want to understand, which is I want to understand if there are these peaks and valleys and you have a healthy narcissism or unhealthy.

12:04Rob Lowe:I've been diagnosed as a benevolent narcissist.

12:07Simon Sinek:Is that a diagnosis?

12:09Rob Lowe:Well, that's what Rashida Jones says. And I think she's actually a learned woman.

12:14Simon Sinek:Okay. So you're a benevolent narcissist, which means that you can take these situations and do you actually, does it hurt or is it funny? Both. Simultaneously? yes so is that the reason that you've been able to maintain a career for so long is because you have a as as as as healthy as your ego is you also get that it's a it's a it's a joke it's a game 100 like you're a caricature of yourself at times well that's why when um

12:45Rob Lowe:like one of my favorite things that i've ever done was the comedy central roast of myself right it's brutal why do people agree to that well see that's just the thing is like like why would so i told cheryl i said they've come to me your wife cheryl my wife cheryl they've cut they came to me like four years in a row and i was like i'm not doing that and then i remember justin bieber did it and he is a huge star i was like you know what if justin bieber can do it i can do it and competition.

13:14Simon Sinek:Right.

13:17Rob Lowe:And fear of being public. Right? It's everything you've said about me. And Cheryl goes, I won't let you do it. You're going to be humiliated and nationalized. That ship has sailed. That's what I said. I remember I said to her. And she goes, well, are they at least going to pay you? And I go, yeah, they're going to pay me over a million dollars. She goes, oh, you're doing it.

13:42Simon Sinek:Everybody's got a price. what's the price of humiliation turns out it's about a million dollars

13:47Rob Lowe:for about five hours work

13:48Simon Sinek:I would put up with a lot for that

13:54Rob Lowe:but that said I've never had more fun never it was so fun and they eviscerated our good friend Maria Shriver I invited and she sat there and there's a You can watch it on Netflix to this day or wherever the hell it is. The look of horror on Maria Shriver's face as I'm getting dissected.

14:23Simon Sinek:I wish I had watched this as prep. It's so brutal. But it's... So where did you learn that? Did that come from being punched in the face a few times and learning? Like, was that natural? Or did you... What I'm getting at... I'll tell you what it is... What I'm getting at is can the rest of us learn... You are, you know, black belt, jujitsu, you know, your ability to weather the punches. And the question I'm asking, the reason I'm going down this path is, can the rest of us learn to withstand humiliation and I don't want to say, you know, failures, but sort of like. Failures. Humiliations and failures.

15:01Rob Lowe:They wrote an open letter, Simon. Paul Newman wrote an open letter.

15:04Simon Sinek:Okay, so how did the rest of us learn to build the muscle of humiliation, to withstand humiliation of failure? Because ultimately it's good for growth, mental health, and career longevity. So I want to know where it came from. I mean, I think it's competitiveness.

15:23Rob Lowe:Like, I'm down, but I'm not out. Right? You see it with athletes all the time. Literally, they're down by X amount of points.

15:31Simon Sinek:But what's going through your head when you're down? because the difference between a great athlete and just a very talented athlete is the mental game, not the physical game.

15:39Rob Lowe:Well, it's like somebody they say what makes great shooters is they forget the last bad shot.

15:43Simon Sinek:Yeah.

15:44Rob Lowe:So, I mean, they literally are impervious to the fact that they've gone 0 for 18.

15:48Simon Sinek:Yeah.

15:49Rob Lowe:They get the ball. They're not going, oh, what if I go 0 for 19? They're not. I mean, that's a real thing.

15:55Simon Sinek:I've been talking about this thing recently. I heard this guy talking about he wanted to understand what makes the best tennis players the best tennis players and what he discovered is the top five are always in the top five and like the next 2025 are like circulating the 20 that's right so what he's asking is like what distinguishes the top five from everybody else it's not diet it's not it's not discipline it's not training all those things are equals what he discovered was the top five tennis players love the game they love the game so when they have a great shot like they'll they'll win the

16:26Rob Lowe:point and they'll say to themselves oh i love this game and if they miss the point they go missed it

16:33Simon Sinek:this time but just you wait and what that does is it reduces stress and saves energy and so individually it doesn't do very much but over the course of an entire game what it does by the end they have more energy and they have lower stress and so they can win at the end because they're just so much more relaxed and have much more physical energy than their opponent who's stressed out and and and tense and all the rest of it and tight and so i'm wondering if it's something similar to that which is when you get when you when you get on your heels when you win you're like oh i freaking love my life i love my career i love this crazy business and when you get hit on your heels you go like oh that sucked but i'm coming like is it the same that's what if you have

17:14Rob Lowe:the same joy that's what it feels like that's exactly what it feels that's what goes through my mind what you just described so that to me is learnable but that to me is also

17:23Simon Sinek:to see it done in a career that's not athletics because athletics it's immediate point point point point game done right i find it more interesting in what you're doing because it's less uh immediate and you have to actually because that those down periods can last weeks months years years years and to be able to maintain that attitude of i'm coming back and be able to look past the fact that it's been a year and you've been out of work there was a time in my career

17:51Rob Lowe:Do you remember these things called magazines? Do you remember those when those were out?

17:55Simon Sinek:Yeah.

17:55Rob Lowe:So there was a time when I hadn't been on the cover of a magazine, which is, you know, as silly as it sounds, a great barometer of your cachet and your industry popularity. Yeah. And I hadn't been on a magazine cover in 10 years. Maybe. And I was like, I'm back. I'll be back. And then it was. And then there was another five or six year period. And then back again. And I always wanted to be on the cover of Vanity Fair because that really meant something. That was when I came up, that was only the biggest stars. Got on the cover of Vanity Fair. And I never got it. Never, never, never, never got it.

18:36Rob Lowe:And not only did I not get that, I didn't get very many at all. And then I ended up getting the cover of Vanity Fair. And it wasn't for acting. It was for my writing. It was that they excerpted my first book. and that which I always took kind of talk about you can have all your plans but the universe has something else like if you'd have told me you're never going to get the cover of Vanity Fair as an actor but you're going to get it as an author I'd have been like what but that's what happened

19:02Simon Sinek:so but but it was still the attitude of I'll be back I'll be back yeah as Arnold would say but I am fascinated by this this because you come from a an industry where the egos are fascinating Fascinating. Fascinating. My point is, is you could make a study. You're one of the very few actors who's had a career across so many decades that you, I'm very curious how the industry has changed. Oh my God. When you were an A-lister with all the magazines and paparazzi following you around then versus now, like what has changed of the personalities? What does it take to stay in this business? What does it take to get into this business?

19:39Simon Sinek:Has anything changed? The people who made it then, could they make it now? The people who made it now, could they have made it then?

19:44Rob Lowe:This is a five-hour podcast question, and I'm happy to go into it. I'm fascinated by it.

19:53Simon Sinek:For me, I'm a culture guy, and I'm so curious how the culture has changed of show business.

19:59Rob Lowe:So in no particular order, because I'm not sure of the things I'm going to talk about, which is more important. So I'm just going to start talking. Today, the audience is interested in you to the extent that they like you and are invested in who you are. As a person. Behind, off screen. As a person, as a brand, as your thing. So compare that to when people loved Paul Newman Or Marlon Brando Or Lillian Gish They didn't know fuck all about any of those people No parasocial relationships Nothing By the way, if you wanted to see them Outside of what you paid in a movie or a TV show Maybe, maybe you saw them at the Oscars Or the Emmys today they if you're not and really what it is audiences need authenticity today they value authenticity above all else all else

21:14Simon Sinek:so before they were they were actors they had a job now you have a you have a brand you're managing and that makes

21:21Rob Lowe:that makes it sound is that right? yeah but it makes yes but that phraseology through no fault of your own makes it sound more icky than it is because when you realize what's underneath it is people in a world where literally you don't even know what the truth is anymore. If you get a whiff of authenticity, that is huge to people.

21:45Simon Sinek:Because you're the same on camera than you are off camera. I mean, talking to you now, like you and I sort of shooting the shit before we turn the camera. It's the same cadence. It's the same personality. you don't turn it on for the cameras. I mean, this is what you see is what you get. Is that what you mean?

22:02Rob Lowe:100%. And that has always been my, a little bit of my secret sauce. It hasn't always worked in my favor. I won't name names, but people can do the math. I came up with a bunch of guys all about the same time, same looks, same level of talent. And one became a gigantic, gigantic, iconic movie star. but the way that that person did it is they were a different person in private than they were in public and I've just which works for a while first of all I don't want to live like that but like I just couldn't do it

22:44Simon Sinek:the reason I keep scraping this why I'm fascinated by this is less about Hollywood but more that I see that Hollywood and sort of show business is an exaggeration for real life. Yes. Everything's exaggerated. Yes. And I think lots of people live lives where who they are publicly and who they are privately and who they are at work and who they are at home are, we're all slightly different, of course. Yes. You have to be. But there are some who are very different. And I think the concept of authenticity is something that we want at work, we want from our friends, we want from our companies, and we're pushing it.

23:18Simon Sinek:And so I like looking at Hollywood for the lessons because everything is so exaggerated. It makes the lessons easier to see. So when you see somebody who's so diametrically different publicly than they are privately, like what happens here and why does it crash? And what kind of skills does it take to live an authentic life? And so is it just flexing the muscle of learning to withstand humiliation? Is it what we were saying before, which is love of life, joie de vivre, like I love this and don't worry, I'll be back tomorrow? Is it that kind of grit? Like I'm trying to discern the lessons.

23:52Rob Lowe:It's all of that. And then the other part is owning your flaws and being aware of what your blind spots are and realizing that those can also be your superpowers.

24:05Simon Sinek:How do you define authenticity? When you say that the audience these days, the people are looking for an authentic personality. personality what does that even mean the term is so over you know what it is it's like what's the

24:16Rob Lowe:classic thing is what is what is what is porn how do you describe it you know you know it when you see it that's not enough or like what is modern art you know it when you see yeah but that's that's

24:27Simon Sinek:that's a that that that is an answer people give because they are struggling to find the words to find it if you can see something you can define it if we know what it is and we know what it isn't then we then we should be able to like but like is the sistine chapel modern art clearly not what

24:41Rob Lowe:What if it's a feeling? Because it's a feel. It is a feel. It's a feel. When you're with somebody.

24:47Simon Sinek:How do you know a dog's a dog? You know it when you see it? No. It's furry.

24:51Rob Lowe:But you're not getting a feeling off the dog. You don't get a feeling off the dog.

24:55Simon Sinek:What we're talking about is a feel. Okay, so what's the feeling? How can we tell people be authentic if we can't tell them what to do?

25:03Rob Lowe:I can tell you exactly. Do not self-edit. Which is practical shit that I have had to learn.

25:10Simon Sinek:So what does self-editing mean?

25:13Rob Lowe:So if I have an, like in this conversation, if I have an instinct, something funny, I'm saying it, I'm thinking it and saying it before I've even registered that it's going to happen. As opposed to, I haven't even thought about it. It came from somewhere and I just blurted it out. I've lived parts of my life where in a talk show format, I wouldn't say anything until I had thought of it. How's that going to play? is that off the topic we're on is it too mean all of those things I don't have any of them anymore when did that go away when David Letterman fucked me when I did an appearance on David Letterman and he fucked me there's a thing called a pre-interview do you know what a pre-interview is where you and I get it now being a podcast host I don't have this because I invite really good people.

26:10Rob Lowe:I don't have a machine where I have to fill time. But if you do, you're going to run up against people who have nothing to say.

26:17Simon Sinek:Right.

26:17Rob Lowe:And so as a protection mechanism, these talk shows have a pre-interview process. You get some actor who does another ass from a hole in the ground. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. They've got to promote a movie. They're boring. They're funny if somebody writes for them.

26:30Simon Sinek:Right.

26:30Rob Lowe:And now you've got to be out there. So they have a pre-interview where you kind of agree on what the stories are going to be. And if they say this, you're going to say that. And they do it. A little bit canned.

26:38Simon Sinek:Totally can't. Yeah, totally can't. And we can tell. 100%. Yeah, it's like comedians doing bits instead of answering questions.

26:44Rob Lowe:So we did it. And Letterman's producer was obsessed with a story that I told them that I knew was stupid. But they were like, say that story. Make sure you tell that story. Dave loves that story. I'm thinking to myself, I'm having this instinct. This is not a good story. I don't even get it. The only reason I mentioned this story is because they put me through a two and a half hour pre-interview for an interview that might be three minutes long. And by the way, the message of that is you're boring. You have nothing to say. Keep talking. Eventually, we're going to get to a story that's worthy of the great David Letterman.

27:31Simon Sinek:Right.

27:33Rob Lowe:So I come out and they've got me. do you remember the Warner Brothers cartoons when like Bugs Bunny would fuck Porky Pig's head up so much that he'd pack different suitcases on top of him and spin him around and then he'd walk right off of a out of a window of a hotel and fall to his death that was me they're like here do this take that and remember this if Dave says this you say that and remember the one story about that and then I'm out there I tell the story it's a long story and they're like really tell the story i tell the story and by the way the story was about going camping with my dad and um we had to fly on a plane and a bush plane and they let me fly it and i put us in a in a loop and that was it was there's no end there's nothing i finished the story to crickets which i kind of knew were coming dead long dead air silence and letterman looks at me and goes you know what you seem like a good kid after the show you'll come up in my office and we're going to work on that story fuck me

28:39Rob Lowe:and so was it what i learned from that yeah is i'm going to trust my instincts i'm going to say what i want yeah when i want yeah because it couldn't have gone worse yeah checking the boxes right so

28:56Simon Sinek:So even if you trust your own instincts and it fails, you're still at ground zero. And it turns out, guess what?

29:02Rob Lowe:I've got good instincts.

29:04Simon Sinek:Yeah.

29:04Rob Lowe:Because guess what? You can't be a good actor without good instincts.

29:07Simon Sinek:Yeah.

29:07Rob Lowe:You can't. Can't. You cannot.

29:10Simon Sinek:It's what we work with. So you learn from the humiliation to say, you know what? I'm going to trust my instincts and tell my own stories. That's right. And so how do we teach someone to trust their gut without having to get to the point where they get? So have you been able to teach your kids? Have you been able to teach your friends how to develop this muscle other than trust me? This is what happened to me. Don't make the same mistake.

29:41Rob Lowe:I mean, it's like, for example, if I were talking to a CEO of a company. Yeah. And it was about like, how can I be better talking at a retreat? Or how can I be better in interviews? Right. Which I would say highlight your fears, your flaws, what you like. The very thing that you don't want to talk about is the very thing that you need to talk about. That makes you interesting and makes you relatable. And, you know, I think that. get off script do something unexpected do something unexpected

30:30by telling it first of all it takes courage a friend of mine so the word vulnerability

30:37Simon Sinek:and being vulnerable has is now overused to the point where i'm not even sure anybody knows what it means and worse to mo to many people the word vulnerable is equated with weakness that's right My friend, I love this. She doesn't use the word vulnerable for all the reasons. She hates the word. She uses the word available, which I've really taken to, which is make yourself available, right? Like, make yourself available. Show people that you are available to talk about your mistakes, that you're available emotionally, that you're available, you know, to show your humility. And the courage it takes to be available, to make yourself available, because to be unavailable is nothing but walls and smoke screens.

31:24Okay, so let's talk about something that's adjacent to that.

31:28Rob Lowe:Like, people always say, the thing I like about Rob is he doesn't take himself seriously. I hate that as much as I hate the vulnerable thing. Because I do take myself. If I'm not going to take myself seriously, who the fuck is going to take myself seriously? You're not a caricature. No, but you know what I mean? But they use it all the time. but what they're saying is I'm willing to discuss and not hide my flaws. Yeah. I hate the phrase, he doesn't take himself seriously. Yeah. To the contrary, bro. Take himself really seriously. I mean, I've worked on myself. I'm not running nilly-willy around the fucking world, but the notion of being self-deprecating, let's talk about that too.

32:13Because, again, if you watch, all of my heroes would go on talk shows and be so funny about themselves.

32:20Rob Lowe:Burt Reynolds, fucking Kennedy's press. You ever seen John Kennedy's press conferences? Oh, they're amazing. They're like one-man shows. He gets up there and he's making fun. He's taking the piss, like the English would say, taking the piss out of himself. That, to me, is so much more attractive than someone is trying to show you how cool they are. Yeah. All the time.

32:43Simon Sinek:Yeah. And I think it's relatable. I mean, because we're all bundled. It's much more relatable when people are self-deprecating or at least willing to point out their flaws because we're all bundles of insecurity. We're all imperfect. And when somebody presents themselves as perfect, it actually makes them very difficult to relate to.

33:00Rob Lowe:Yes.

33:01Simon Sinek:You know, where when somebody shows us...

33:04Rob Lowe:Well, because we also know... We also know it's not true. Going back to... Yeah, so you know it's not authentic. Yeah. You immediately know, well, they're not authentic.

33:10Simon Sinek:Okay, so going back to what it takes to be authentic. So being authentic means willing to make yourself available, willing to show who the real you is. And that means talking about mistakes, fears, anxieties. I mean, you, and I think having a healthy sense of humor about oneself is a sign of great self-confidence, not the opposite. Remember, we all went to school with a kid who could dish it out but couldn't take it.

33:34Rob Lowe:Yes.

33:35Simon Sinek:And I have great respect for the kids who can dish it out and who can take it. Same. Right? Right.

33:40Rob Lowe:And that's right. When you see, I'm just thinking of some like Peyton Manning.

33:44Simon Sinek:Yeah.

33:45Rob Lowe:Or you see these athletes, you see certain athletes who get into a broadcast booth and they're just kind of, because they're, they're, they're scared and they're trying to be perfect. They have an image to maintain and whatever. And then you get a guy like Peyton Manning, you just like making fun of his forehead, making fun of himself. And like, as well, I wasn't exactly the most nimble guy in the pocket, but this guy over here, like that's you, you, you, We love that. We love that kind of stuff. And I think that the great entertainers and the great public figures always knew that. And my guess is that's something that everybody could learn from a little bit.

34:18Simon Sinek:Is there a line, though? Because we live in a world where authenticity, and now I'm putting it in air quotes, is performative, right? Where there's some social media influencer or just somebody on social media. Oh, yeah, the fake man of the people stuff. Sure. Not just fake man of the people, but just the how many takes do I take talking about how I'm struggling with my dot, dot, dot. You know? Yep. And it's like where – By the way, if I were running straight inauthentic man of the people game on you, which is the thing, I would have showed up not only without the makeup and hair people,

35:01Rob Lowe:but I would have showed up making sure you are very well aware that I'm such a dude I'm just a regular guy man I'm a man of the people dude I'm not even sure I brushed my teeth today I could have run that one on you yeah it's all it's complete bullshit it's just a different type of bullshit yeah

35:23Simon Sinek:has social media kind of lost the plot is it just becoming our new entertainment is it just the new theater where it started off as people telling their real stories and now it's people telling their real stories ish but it's scripted, it's lit it's angled, it's you know I know where to put the everybody knows what their angles are everybody knows to lift the camera a little high everybody knows to put the light behind the photographer everybody knows the basics some people know more than the basics

35:51Rob Lowe:my favorite is watching people pose for selfies on the street and like every single person now knows what only we used to know right you know like the the olsen twins when they you know they did what they did famously they created the prune do you know what prune men don't have to do it but when but gals if you get your picture taken you see people say say cheese i don't get that never met he that doesn't but if you go prune you see prune you get you get cheekbones the perfect you get trout pout and cheekbones see the fact that i know this and i'm willing to share it openly you're like you're like the magician revealing the the secrets well i have i have i i you know i have red carpet looks i've got man of the people i've got blue steel and i've got iconic you you have names for them

36:40Simon Sinek:yeah can you right now yeah man of the people please

36:46Rob Lowe:man of the people is when you see like tom cruise at the rope line at the at the line like reaching out to sign thousands of autographs that's he's doing man of the people okay and then

36:57Simon Sinek:Blue steel.

36:58Rob Lowe:And then blue steel is where you've got your angles. You're doing your angles. Step and repeat. Yeah, you've got... Rob, over here. Rob, over here. It's that one. You want to show the watch that they've lent you. Yeah. And you need to show that because otherwise you're not getting a watch lent. So the question is, how do you get your hand up here? So it has to be you're caught mid move like this. That's iconic. Yeah. Also, looking up and off is always... the presidential photographs are always hopefully looking off to the horizon but the horizon's not down here horizon's up there so you're looking up to the horizon and um so yeah those are those are the three the best is i i told chris pratt that with mutual friends of pratt and early on when he was just becoming a movie star he literally called me he calls me rollo rollo i'm in the car i'm on the way to the right car what are the three what are the three again men of the people iconic and what's the other i got blue yeah yeah yeah okay thanks rollo

38:00Simon Sinek:but this is the point which is you understand it's an industry it's a game it's a game there's a there's a goof there's a rule role to play yes and if you play a role with a nudge and a wink this is the secret to longevity which is take it you take it seriously really seriously but not

38:16Rob Lowe:but not too seriously well you know it's not self-important it's not self-important and the thing is like i see there's another there's another thing that actors do where they go they want you to think like you know i didn't do up this tie because you know i'm i'm above all this yeah yeah yeah you know this this this premiere that i've flown to france to do yeah and this tux yeah that i've either bought or rented or had fitted yeah but i'm above all i'm Kind of above it.

38:46Simon Sinek:Yeah.

38:47Rob Lowe:And you can tell, you know why?

38:48Simon Sinek:Because my tie's loose.

38:49Rob Lowe:Because my tie's loose. See? Just so you know.

38:53Simon Sinek:It's all bullshit. It's more bullshitty than doing your fucking tie up. You are going back to that tennis. Now everybody is out there Googling.

39:02Rob Lowe:I'm going to get a phone call from Joaquin Phoenix immediately.

39:06Simon Sinek:That tennis analogy is.

39:09Rob Lowe:Premier bro. You know you're there. You know you're there. I know you're there. Everybody knows you're there. You don't mind pissing people off.

39:18Simon Sinek:You don't mind pissing people off. Or do they just know that you're having fun?

39:23Rob Lowe:They have to. Listen, if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be like, I fucking love. Dude, I...

39:29Simon Sinek:If you're being made fun of, you're relevant.

39:30Rob Lowe:Bro, I'm watching Family Guy.

39:31Simon Sinek:Because we can't make fun of Lily and Gish.

39:33Rob Lowe:She's dead. Can't make fun of dead people.

39:36Simon Sinek:Okay, fine. Bad example. Okay, so...

39:38Rob Lowe:I'm trying to... Okay, I've got to surface. So I'm watching Family Guy with my boys. They're probably 10 and 11. Dad, you gotta watch Family Guy. You gotta watch Family Guy. Funniest show ever I watch. It's not the first episode I watch, but it's funny. It's a really funny show. And I'm watching it, and then there's an episode where Stewie, the crazy little baby, goes to Hollywood. And he's in a makeup chair. And this flamboyant man is doing his makeup. And the scene begins with Stewie going, Oh, please, just let me do one more. Can I do one more? And the makeup guy goes, of course you can do one more and he goes roblo and he goes straight and she goes no i never would have known it to look at him and i thought it was the greatest it made it's amazing and i called seth mcfarland yeah i go dude that's the funny and we became friends and i've done a bunch of family guys and we've worked together a bunch but he's gotten a lot of phone calls that

40:40Simon Sinek:we're how dare you how dare you but to be made fun of means you're you're relevant you're in the zeitgeist because nobody makes fun of people unless they're you're making fun of the has-been-ness of them you know yeah i'm not taking which is which is mean-spirited i can take a fake-ass shot at

40:55Rob Lowe:joaquin phoenix because he's one of my favorite actors right he's one of my favorite actors he's one of the greatest actors we've ever had right he can still do his tie-up but he's a great actor

41:02Simon Sinek:yeah if you weren't in show business what would you be doing i may not be in show business after this interview that's that's true you didn't go to college you do like that could not be more clear he clearly did not go to college no no you yeah i didn't oh oh yeah but the the i don't mean it in a in a mean way i know i'd be just like i'm like serious like you have been an actor your whole life like what else could you do nothing nothing like if this doesn't work out oh bro i can't change a light bulb. If this doesn't work out,

41:36Rob Lowe:this is it for me. My dad used to say when I was 12, he used to say tons of supportive shit like this. You either better grow up to be a movie star or a prince.

41:53Simon Sinek:And royal family wasn't available.

41:55Rob Lowe:I tried. Go on. Princess Stephanie. I dated her for like five years. Five months. Whatever. It felt like five years. I tried. I was like. You tried Prince. I tried. It wasn't. I'm not cut out for it. I would have liked the diplomatic community. That would have been great. Like to have the pouch that you can put shit in all over the world and park wherever you want. Just like in a red light. Just get out. And I built for it.

42:23Simon Sinek:What was it about?

42:24Rob Lowe:A lot of long, late dinners with people that you don't want to be with. Yeah. And nobody works.

42:31Simon Sinek:But you have long late dinners with people you don't know be with.

42:32Rob Lowe:Is there anybody else I can trash in this podcast?

42:35Simon Sinek:I mean, this is the episode we can call it, the one where Rob Lowe trashes everybody who ever, yeah. Am I trashing? No, you're not. We're having fun.

42:45Rob Lowe:Okay.

42:45Simon Sinek:And we're doing authenticity. We're doing authenticity. We're pointing out the obvious. We're pointing out the things that everybody already knows. That's the thing. I think that's what authenticity is, right? Yes. Which is like, why are you presenting to be perfect? We all know you're not. Yes. Because we're not. Like we all know, we all know that everybody else tied the tie for their tuxedo. We all know that you didn't. Like it's, it's a, like either a stylist told you that would look cool. You decided it would look cool or it's an affectation. Or maybe it's really your personality and you don't want to be at the thing and you're begrudgingly there.

43:18Rob Lowe:Which is a thing. Which is a thing. I get that. I get that. I do get that.

43:21Simon Sinek:And all you want to be is an actor, but your contract says you got to go. That's real. That's real for people. You got to go do the press.

43:27Rob Lowe:I have respect and empathy for that.

43:30Simon Sinek:There's a lot of actors who begrudgingly go on the talk shows.

43:33Rob Lowe:I have total respect and empathy for people who are not...

43:38Simon Sinek:They're not marketers.

43:39Rob Lowe:And they're not comfortable in that lane. And I understand that. I really, really do. But I also understand it's a part of the job. So for me, it's way... Like meeting people on the street. I love people. I love meeting them. I love talking to them. it's way easier for me to take a picture to say hello than to say i'm sorry i don't take pictures yes i've seen people do that to kids in a wheelchair yeah i've seen it with my own eyes and when i go what's that about they say if i make an exception here i have to make an exception for everybody and i've just made a rule i am not taking pictures with people i'll say hello to them yeah i'll have a conversation with them yeah and like at the end of the day take the

44:24Simon Sinek:fucking picture and move on do you want to hear the best story i heard i just heard this last night so paul mccartney arguably one of the most famous people in the world right no one's beatles proof as he said it's amazing that's what he said yeah no one's beatles proof and um people come up to him they muster up the courage to come up to him and back in the day before there were cell phones you know can i can i take a picture with you can i take a picture of you and he would always say the same thing i'm terribly sorry i'm happy to talk to you i'm happy to chat but i'm i don't take pictures if i take one it it'll it'll be madness it'll be a feeding friend yes and um totally understand right and he just as a rule paul mccartney doesn't take pictures september 11th happens and he's he's down there and there's some firemen and he goes down to them and says thank you to them and they say can we have a picture and he says of course right and And there's a restaurant that wanted his picture, and he wouldn't take a picture, but he gave them the picture of him with the fireman, right?

45:24Simon Sinek:He's at the restaurant, and somebody comes over to him. The gentleman says, Mr. McCartney, it's my wife's birthday. All she would love, she's a huge fan. Please, can she have her picture with you? You know? He goes, I'm sorry, I don't take pictures. He goes, but your picture, that's with firemen. I took that with firemen, but I'm sorry I don't take pictures. I'm terribly sorry. I appreciate you asking, but I'm sorry I don't take pictures. Paul McCartney gets up to walk out of the restaurant, walks over to the table and sings her happy birthday. Okay? That is better. That is better than a picture.

45:59Simon Sinek:That is a story.

46:00Rob Lowe:That's amazing.

46:01Simon Sinek:There's something about a photo. It's irrefutable evidence that you can share with everybody of the moment.

46:09Rob Lowe:I get why people want photos.

46:10Simon Sinek:No, no. I have photos with people. I don't get starstruck with many people. But there are some that I really...

46:18Rob Lowe:And by the way, I did one with Paul. The last time I saw Paul... Yeah, you have to.

46:20Simon Sinek:The last time I saw Paul was at his last concert,

46:23Rob Lowe:and he just showed up to the VIP. I said, please... And it's in my last book. It's a picture of me standing there. And he's got the look of like, get it over with.

46:32Simon Sinek:But I made it. But it's your picture. You know what?

46:33Rob Lowe:And here's the thing is...

46:34Simon Sinek:Because you have to.

46:35Rob Lowe:Are these guys... The other thing is...

46:38Simon Sinek:But there's a level of celebrity that is... It's otherworldly, of which he is one of the...

46:43Rob Lowe:Yeah, the other one was Redford I did it with.

46:45Simon Sinek:Yeah.

46:46Rob Lowe:Where I was like, I just, I don't give a shit. I'm taking a selfie.

46:49Simon Sinek:But I think it's fun when celebrities are starstruck by celebrities. Yes. It's like, we are the world. They're all like, what? Like, they're all looking around the room. My favorite documentary. It's an amazing documentary. Why was Dan Aykroyd there?

46:59Rob Lowe:That's what I say. I could have been there. I was, I'm going to go. I'm sorry. It's 1985. Yeah, you were. Hello. I know. The fuck? It really made me request, like, really go back. And we know you can sing. And we know I can fake sing. Yeah. And there's no bigger Springsteen. I was in the cut. I was like, but then again, Madonna wasn't there either.

47:21Simon Sinek:Were you at the Emmys? That was the American Music Awards. Oh, it was the American, okay. Because they were all there because... Dan Aykroyd wasn't at the American Music Awards.

47:32Rob Lowe:I still don't know why... Was he supplying the drugs?

47:34Simon Sinek:It never, they never touched upon it in the documentary why Dan Aykroyd was there. No. Does Dan Aykroyd know why Dan Aykroyd was there?

47:40Rob Lowe:Maybe it's a blues, he does have Blues Brothers. That's a real thing.

47:44Simon Sinek:And he can sing. He's the Blues Brothers. They're real like sold out arenas. That's true. Okay. I'll give him that. Yeah. And it was up to time.

47:51Rob Lowe:I feel better about myself. Okay. Thank you.

47:53Simon Sinek:Yeah, that's right. You didn't have a Blues Brothers type film and you weren't selling out arenas for your singing.

47:58Rob Lowe:I was fake playing the saxophone in St. Elmo's Fire at that very time.

48:02Simon Sinek:Did you at least take some training on where to put your fingers or were you literally just making up whatever? A little bit of both. A little bit of both. I'm always fascinated how much effort celebrities or actors, not celebrities, actors put in for a part. Like you have to learn the violin. Yeah. And you can tell if they're getting it, they're just making it up.

48:17Rob Lowe:And now with AI, you don't need to do any of it. That's true.

48:20Simon Sinek:Have you done fighting scenes? Sure. Lots of them. Like, are you good? Like, how many skills do you have?

48:25Rob Lowe:I have. Oh, dude.

48:26Simon Sinek:That you'd have never thought you would have.

48:28Rob Lowe:Can I tell you? Can you sword fight? My. Can you shoot a gun? My abilities are literally a mile wide and an inch deep. Like, I've played so many doctors. Like if you were to, God forbid, have a medical emergency right now, I could, I'm almost certain I could almost save your life.

48:51Simon Sinek:I mean, just before we turned on the cameras, there was some smoke across the street and you literally said, I've played a fireman. Don't worry. It's okay.

49:00Rob Lowe:It's white smoke.

49:01Simon Sinek:Yeah. I mean, you literally, you literally did the, I played a doctor on TV.

49:06Rob Lowe:And that's the beauty of what I get to do is I learned so much. I have a lot of knowledge

49:12Simon Sinek:I legit want to know I want to know the skills you have we know you can act

49:17Rob Lowe:shoot guns, ride horses I could put the I was watching Mission Impossible put the pen in his lung to let the air in, they did it I've done rescue people

49:31Simon Sinek:what skills do you have that are applicable in the outside world that you learn because of a film or a TV show So riding a horse, got it. You could ride a horse, not on screen. Shooting a gun, great. You could shoot. Could you pick up a gun, assemble it, and shoot it? Yes.

49:47Rob Lowe:Blindfolded.

49:48Simon Sinek:Okay. That's a skill.

49:49Rob Lowe:I could, if you were to tie me up, actually, we'll talk later. Turn off the cameras. If you were to tie my hands behind my back and tie my feet and throw me into the deep end of your pool, I could survive.

50:04Simon Sinek:That's like a Navy SEAL thing.

50:06Rob Lowe:I played a phony baloney Navy SEAL.

50:09Simon Sinek:yeah and they so they so you went through the training for a few days yeah you did a little

50:12Rob Lowe:bit of buds yeah totally so i can do i can do i can do ring pickups i can do a lot of what's a ring pickup ring they don't do them anymore they're too violent even for the navy seals but they you you would surface in the middle of nowhere and you would tread water and put your arm in a in like a sea thing and then they as zodiac would come ripping down and would catch you and just flip you up into the that sounds awful and the navy seas only do it once what you do in the movie you're doing it 14 times what movie was this that you played a terrible movie called the finest hour before chris pratt cornered the market on right on entertain military entertainment um i i there were only very few navy seal movies and and like i would go to buds and they're like i love your movie i'm like it's the only it's really there's only been two navy seal movies it was bad called the finest hour bad but i but again the gift of that movie was that i got to learn a lot about that world and make a lot of friends in that world and have a little footprint in that world yeah

51:10Simon Sinek:yeah yeah that's really one of the best things about the crazy life which is you get to meet

51:14Rob Lowe:some amazing amazing people yes yeah for sure yeah who's who so paul mccartney is one of the highlights of your career meeting paul mccartney cary grant um you know all those mick i mean it's you get to meet your heroes there are very few people that i haven't had they always say don't meet your heroes though i would say don't get to know your heroes okay meeting is one thing okay like i like i'm friendly ish with bruce springsteen he's my favorite he's my guy right and it's gotten like i know him enough now like like i don't like it's like you just it's you don't even think it's like it's hard it's hard to like cry when he's singing the river when you're going to go pizza with him later.

51:59Rob Lowe:Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, it gets hard. Everybody needs to be a fan of somebody's.

52:04Simon Sinek:It ruins the magic. I remember the first time there was this magic trick that I loved, super simple card trick that a friend of mine used to do. And I begged him to teach me so I could do it for other people. And he quizzed me, why do you want to learn it? I said, I want to learn it because I want to give other people the feeling that you gave me. He's like, that's a good reason. I'll teach it to you. And he taught me the trick and it completely ruined it because it's not magic it's just a trick and now that i knew the trick it i've lost i lost the magic don't lose the magic and don't lose the magic right and i think i think this is and i think this is to your point which is you can meet your heroes just don't get to know your heroes because it turns out they're people and and it you said the song loses its magic because you know

52:45Rob Lowe:the person yeah some people can transcend it because all all of something or someone is a

52:51Simon Sinek:magical thing yes and the best and you never want to lose all because not that that's jaded

52:57Rob Lowe:yes yes i'm definitely not jaded i mean it's weird i'm i'm cynical but i'm not jaded yeah is that is

53:03Simon Sinek:that even possible no i think so i think and it goes right back to where we started which is you have joy you have unbridled joy for life you have unbridled joy for your career for your for your craft you you you have fun and you take it seriously but and think what you teach us and this is what i'm getting from you what i'm learning from you just can be very serious about something and have a lot of fun with something simultaneously yes you can take life very seriously because life is serious and you can have a lot of fun with it and you can have the struggles and you can talk about your fuck-ups and you can talk about your own demons and you can have fun in all of that as well there's absurdity in all the struggle and there is realness in all of the in all the fun

53:46Rob Lowe:like when i when i talk about drugs and alcohol there's nothing more serious than that there's nothing more serious than if you know someone who's suffering really suffering with drugs and alcohol yeah it's as serious as anything out there right and when i talk share speak around the country, which I do a lot, there are big time laughs, big time in that. Because if you can find humor in that, you can find humor in anything. And there are plenty of people who can talk very movingly and you get a lot from it and you're crying the whole time. that's not why i got put here i got put here for to to inject a different thing into the conversation and and and i it's taken me a lot of years to to learn it and to learn that like to the extent that anybody has a secret sauce i think maybe that's that's mine

54:47Simon Sinek:stephen colbert says you know you can't you can't be angry or sad when you're laughing I mean literally the most difficult times where we're struggling or in sad if somebody can make a joke like humor matters it's a salve it's a balm and you can't be angry and you can't be sad when you're laughing

55:10Rob Lowe:I remember we talked it's so weird that my grandmother keeps coming up in our talks but when you were on my podcast we talked about my grandmother and I'm just remembering when she passed away I was blessed to be at her bedside and she when she finally passed away there's that moment like now what happens and a new nurse came in and looked at me and literally over my grandmother's not even still warm body produced a pen and paper and said could I get your autograph she's handing it over my dead grandmother's body and i remember going yeah i i i don't i don't sign in pen

56:01Rob Lowe:what are you gonna you know what are you gonna do right you can get angry but right you have to see

56:05Simon Sinek:the but this is the point this is one of the things that i really have i really appreciate about you which is you you see the absurdity of life and the joy of life woven in it's part of it right like like it's all woven it's it's a tapestry and and it's all for fun and i think this is what authenticity is and i think the reason you don't get in trouble when you say some of the things you do is because people know it's it's just it's life and you're just

56:30Rob Lowe:pointing at it i'm never saying anything that isn't i mean i'm like anybody i'm capable of saying things that aren't true i'm capable of lying all the things that human beings do because were flawed but when i'm doing that thing it's i'm they everybody knows that you're just having fun that the one they know that i'm right but the the other thing that about longevity and like you know i did television when movie people didn't do television like i host a game show that would be career death like and and i'm sure there are probably some actors i don't think Daniel Day Lewis is looking to do a game show but what I when they came to me with it the reason I did it was I just come off of doing a one-man show being in front of a live audience with stakes like actual it's live to tape there's no second tape there's a hundred regular folks that you have to interact with you don't know what they're going to say you know what it's a free shot on goal all the time there's money at stake that changes people's lives and you're the quarterback going do we need to be funny now do we need to be to embrace the drama oh do i do have to reset how much money we played and it's all happening all at once live in this enormous set and it is so exciting it's so exciting and it's not at all what i thought it would be and yet it's more than i thought it would be and it's it's an error it's a part of entertainment that i'd never been in but this is this is i so we talked about this so you were a movie actor where it was career death to

58:13Simon Sinek:do tv you did tv you're a movie and tv actor where it's considered sort of career death to now do a game show what is the reason you take these pretty extreme pivots where the common sense of the industry is you probably shouldn't try that like what is the appeal of doing something so out of you know sort of off the the game plan of the career well or maybe it is the career i like to think that that i because i could smell bullshit a mile away i can and i hate artifice and pretension

58:54Rob Lowe:so if you take those things out then all of a sudden you're not judging a game show negatively and i know what it means to people like like people watch the floor in a way that they don't watch anything else i've ever done i have eight-year-olds watching with their parents i love that that does not happen they're not all getting together to watch euphoria right right they're not and the parents aren't there watching The Summer I Got Pretty or whatever the fuck. We live in a world in which everybody goes

59:27Simon Sinek:to their separate room to watch their TV shows and rare are the shows that a family comes together and sits on a couch and watches together.

59:32Rob Lowe:And when I get that and I get it all the time, that means a lot to me.

59:36Simon Sinek:Rob Lowe, you are uniting families.

59:38Rob Lowe:I'm bringing back the family. You're bringing back the family. One quiz show at a time.

59:43Simon Sinek:One quiz show at a time. Doing the Lord's work. That's right. Of all the characters you've played, who's your dream intern? Who's your CEO? And who's getting fired? Oh, wow.

59:54Rob Lowe:Dream intern, Chris Trager, Parks and Recreation.

59:58Simon Sinek:Who's your CEO?

1:00:00Rob Lowe:I'm going with Sam Seaborn. He was running the White House, effectively. Who's getting fired? Oh, 100 % my character I played in Californication, Eddie Nero. He's getting fired. He's going to HR immediately.

1:00:16Simon Sinek:You've worked with your son. what's one piece of advice you'd give someone about working with family

1:00:20Rob Lowe:do it whenever you can it's the greatest gift um the um the shorthand the pride uh is it strange playing a character with your son playing a character yes who's i mean yes very much so and then and then you can't help yourself and also just accept the fact that you lean into the fact that you're still dad like his thing is he calls he would never call me dad on the set it was always rob rob rob rob rob as if i was as if everybody didn't know i want to go hey they know right um but we would be in a scene and i would just be thinking i don't like his hair like that he needs a haircut do you mean like help yourself yeah i can't help myself or like i'd be like i think he needs to engage his core the way he's standing here.

1:01:13Rob Lowe:So, and then we ended up writing that into the show. Unstable, still streaming on, on Netflix, two seasons available.

1:01:22Simon Sinek:Anything that you've learned, a career or personal that just help you get through the day and make life a little easier?

1:01:27Rob Lowe:Hmm. Hmm. Um, live in gratitude, um, manage expectations.

1:01:38Simon Sinek:Yours or other people's?

1:01:39Rob Lowe:Ah, mine.

1:01:44Rob, such a joy.

1:01:45Simon Sinek:So fun. You're so fun. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

1:01:49Rob Lowe:No, it's great. Thank you.

1:01:50Simon Sinek:A Bit of Optimism is brought to you by The Optimism Company and is lovingly produced by our team, Lindsay Garbenius and Devin Johnson. If I was able to give you any kind of insight or some inspiration or made you smile, please subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts for more. And if you're trying to get answers to a problem at work or want to advance a dream, maybe I can help. Simply go to simonsynic.com. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.