Rob Lowe Names Names: The Power of ‘Screw It’

7:57Simon Sinek:right

7:58Rob Lowe:or when they need money

7:59Simon Sinek:right and I was like

8:01Rob Lowe:well it's neither for me yeah and I don't care what people think because I think I have something to say and I'm on my third book when where how did you develop the case of the fuck it's like where did it come from like was it instilled in you and

8:15Simon Sinek:your parents or did you like did you survive the the career near-death experience and realize you survived so you'll be okay kind of thing if you talk to my family particularly my brothers they

8:25Rob Lowe:say they'll tell you I always had it yeah and I think where are you in the pecking order I'm the oldest okay i mean i i think i think i've always had um a lack of fear around like sort of ambition audaciousness lack of fear how whatever flavor you want to describe it's that same ingredient i think

8:50Simon Sinek:i've i kind of was born with so what so give me an example of something that a risk you took and it didn't work out and it was like oh well give me one just give me one i got a bad one um

9:01Rob Lowe:agreeing to do a song and dance number to open the academy awards disaster i i wish you had

9:09Simon Sinek:talked to me before that i could have advised you against that what would you have said other than it's a horrible idea horrible idea okay so can you sing and dance let's start there i can

9:21Rob Lowe:I'm an actor who sings.

9:22Simon Sinek:Okay, so you're a double threat.

9:24Rob Lowe:I can sing as well as Russell Crowe. Let's put it that way.

9:29Rob Lowe:No disrespect to Russell Crowe at all. But not - I mean, Kiefer Sutherland tours a band. I think I could go up and do a duet with him.

9:38Simon Sinek:Okay, so you decide - I mean, I'm no Bacon Brothers. So you decide to do a song and dance for the opening of the Oscars.

9:45Rob Lowe:Can't dance, really.

9:46Simon Sinek:Okay, okay.

9:47Rob Lowe:I mean, I didn't get Footloose for a reason.

9:49Simon Sinek:For a reason, right. and it doesn't go well is what you're saying it doesn't go well it doesn't go well

9:58Rob Lowe:that there was an open letter to the academy the next day signed by like paul newman and gregory peck and like this was an affront to our sensibility how dare you i mean i looked i looked out in the audience and i saw oh it was the night barry levinson won 10 academy awards for rain man And I literally saw him mouth, what the fuck?

10:25Simon Sinek:It didn't go well. Okay, so you come off stage, you're fully aware of what happened.

10:32Rob Lowe:Here's the other part. You got to have, there's a reason why a lot of actors are egomaniacs and self-centered narcissists. Because you have to have a little bit of that to inoculate yourself to the indignities. that happened daily in a career where you're marked to market every single day.

10:54Simon Sinek:Right.

10:55Rob Lowe:So that part of me was like, fuck Barry Levinson. What does he know? Do you know what I mean? And then so you go, you go backstage and then you sit there and you're in the green room and there's Lucille Ball telling you that you're a wonderful dancer and singer.

11:14Simon Sinek:She's making fun of you. No, she loved it. Oh, really? No, she legit. But she's also a comedy genius.

11:20Rob Lowe:God damn it. I always thought she liked it. Fuck. You've totally rewritten my own history, Simon. The history I tell myself is that -

11:31Simon Sinek:Lucille Ball loved me.

11:32Rob Lowe:Is that everybody hated it except Lucille Ball.

11:34Simon Sinek:Yeah.

11:34Rob Lowe:Now it's just everybody hated it, including Lucille Ball.

11:37Simon Sinek:No, she loved it. Because she's a comedy genius.

11:39Rob Lowe:God damn it.

11:40Simon Sinek:She legitimately loved it. Young man. I didn't know. So Lucille Ball loved it. But okay, so once you, and then you read the open letter that it's an affront to the academy and all our sensibilities. So is that a humbling or do you have a sense of humor about it? Like, this is what I want to understand, which is I want to understand like if there are these peaks and valleys and, you know, you have a healthy narcissism or unhealthy.

12:04Rob Lowe:I've been diagnosed as a benevolent narcissist.

12:07Simon Sinek:Is that a diagnosis?

12:09Rob Lowe:Well, that's what Rashida Jones says. And I think she's actually a learned woman.

12:13Simon Sinek:Okay, so you're a benevolent narcissist, which means that you can take these situations and do you actually, does it hurt or is it funny? Both. Simultaneously? Yes. So is that the reason that you've been able to maintain a career for so long is because you have a, as healthy as your ego is, you also get that it's a joke, it's a game. 100%. Like you're a caricature of yourself at times.

12:41Rob Lowe:Well, that's why when, like, one of my favorite things that I've ever done was the Comedy Central roast of myself.

12:51Simon Sinek:Right.

12:51Rob Lowe:It's brutal.

12:52Simon Sinek:Why do people agree to that?

12:53Rob Lowe:Well, see, that's just the thing. It's like, so I told Cheryl, I said, they've come to me. Your wife, Cheryl.

12:59Simon Sinek:My wife, Cheryl.

13:00Rob Lowe:They came to me, like, four years in a row. And I was like, I'm not doing that. And then I remember Justin Bieber did it. And he is a huge star. I was like, you know what? If Justin Bieber can do it, I can do it. Competition. And fear of being public. Right? It's everything you've said about me. And Cheryl goes, I won't let you do it. You're going to be humiliated and nationalized. That ship has sailed. That's what I said. I remember I said to her. And she goes, well, are they at least going to pay you? And I go, yeah, they're going to pay me over a million dollars. She goes, oh, you're doing it.

13:42Simon Sinek:Everybody's got a price.

13:43Rob Lowe:Everybody has a price.

13:43Simon Sinek:What's the price of humiliation? Turns out it's about a million dollars.

13:46Rob Lowe:It's about a million dollars for about five hours work.

13:48Simon Sinek:Yeah. I would put up with a lot for that.

13:52Rob Lowe:I mean, who among us? But that said, I've never had more fun. Never. Never. It was so fun. And they eviscerated. Our good friend Maria Shriver I invited. and she sat there and there's a look, you can watch it on Netflix to this day or wherever the hell it is. The look of horror on Maria Shriver's face as I'm getting dissected.

14:23Simon Sinek:I wish I had watched this as prep. It's so brutal, but it's - So where did you learn that? Did that come from being punched in the face a few times and learning, like, was that natural or did you, what I'm getting at - What I'm getting at is can the rest of us learn? You are, you know, black belt, jujitsu, you know, your ability to weather the punches. And the question I'm asking, the reason I'm going down this path is can the rest of us learn to withstand humiliation and I don't want to say, you know, failures, but sort of like. Failures. Humiliations and failures.

15:01Rob Lowe:They wrote an open letter, Simon. Paul Newman wrote an open letter.

15:04Simon Sinek:Okay, so how did the rest of us learn to build the muscle of humiliation, to withstand humiliation of failure? Because ultimately it's good for growth, mental health, and career longevity. So I want to know where it came from. I mean, I think it's competitiveness.

15:23Rob Lowe:Like, I'm down, but I'm not out. Right? You see it with athletes all the time. Literally, they're down by X amount of points.

15:31Simon Sinek:But what's going through your head when you're down? because the difference between a great athlete and just a very talented athlete is the mental game, not the physical game.

15:39Rob Lowe:Well, it's like somebody they say what makes great shooters is they forget the last bad shot.

15:43Simon Sinek:Yeah.

15:44Rob Lowe:So, I mean, they literally are impervious to the fact that they've gone 0 for 18.

15:48Simon Sinek:Yeah.

15:49Rob Lowe:They get the ball. They're not going, oh, what if I go 0 for 19? They're not. I mean, that's a real thing.

15:55Simon Sinek:I've been talking about this thing recently. I heard this guy talking about he wanted to understand what makes the best tennis players the best tennis players and what he discovered is the top five are always in the top five and like the next 20 25 are like circulating in the 20 that's right so what he's asking is like what distinguishes the top five from everybody else it's not diet it's not it's not discipline it's not training all those things are equals what he discovered was the top five tennis players love the game they love the game so when they have a great shot like they'll they'll win the

16:26Rob Lowe:point and they'll say to themselves oh i love this game and if they miss the point they go missed it this time but just you wait and what that does is it reduces stress and saves energy

16:37Simon Sinek:and so individually it doesn't do very much but over the course of an entire game what it does by the end they have more energy and they have lower stress and so they can win at the end because they're just so much more relaxed and have much more physical energy than their opponent who's stressed out and and and tense and all the rest of it and tight and so i'm wondering if it's something similar to that which is when you get when you when you get on your heels when you win you're like oh i freaking love my life i love my career i love this crazy business and when you get hit on your heels you go like oh that sucked but i'm coming like is it the same that's what i have the same joy that's what it feels like that's exactly what it feels

17:16Rob Lowe:That's what goes through my mind, what you just described.

17:19Simon Sinek:So that to me is learnable, but that to me is also to see it done in a career that's not athletics. Because athletics, it's immediate. Point, point, point, point, game done. Right? I find it more interesting in what you're doing because it's less immediate. And you have to actually, because those down periods can last weeks, months. Years. Years. Years. And to be able to maintain that attitude of I'm coming back and be able to look past the fact that it's been a year and you've been out of work.

17:49Rob Lowe:There was a time in my career where I hadn't been. Do you remember these things called magazines? Do you remember those when those were out?

17:55Simon Sinek:Yeah.

17:55Rob Lowe:So there was a time when I hadn't been on the cover of a magazine, which is, you know, as silly as it sounds, a great barometer of your cachet and your industry popularity. Yeah. And I hadn't been on a magazine cover in 10 years. Maybe. be and i was like i'm back i'll be back and then what it was and then there was another five or six year period not and then back again and i always wanted to be on the cover of vanity fair because that really meant something that was when i came up like that was only the biggest stars right got on the cover of vanity fair and i never got it never never never never got it and not only did I not get that I didn't get very many at all and then I ended up getting the cover of Vanity Fair and it wasn't for acting it was for my writing it was that they excerpted my first book and that which I always took kind of talk about you can have all your plans but the universe has something else like if you'd have told me you're never going to get the cover of Vanity Fair as an actor but you're going to get it as an author I'd have been like what?

19:00Rob Lowe:but that's what happened

19:02Simon Sinek:but it was still the attitude of I'll be back I'll be back, as Arnold would say. But I am fascinated by this, because you come from an industry where the egos are fascinating. Fascinating. Fascinating. My point is, you could make a study. You're one of the very few actors who's had a career across so many decades that you, I'm very curious how the industry has changed. Oh my God. When you were an A-lister with all the magazines and paparazzi following you around then versus now, Like what has changed of the personalities? What does it take to stay in this business? What does it take to get into this business?

19:39Simon Sinek:Has anything changed? The people who made it then, could they make it now? The people who made it now, could they have made it then?

19:44Rob Lowe:This is a five-hour podcast question, and I'm happy to go into it because - I'm fascinated by it.

19:52Simon Sinek:Okay, well - For me, I'm a culture guy, and I'm so curious how the culture has changed of show business.

19:59Rob Lowe:So in no particular order, because I'm not sure of the things I'm going to talk about, which is more important.

20:04Simon Sinek:Yeah.

20:04Rob Lowe:So I'm just going to start talking.

20:08Rob Lowe:Today, the audience is interested in you to the extent that they like you and are invested in who you are. As a person. Behind, off screen. As a person, as a brand, as your thing. So compare that to when people loved Paul Newman or Marlon Brando or Lillian Gish. They didn't know fuck all about any of those people. No parasocial relationships. Nothing. By the way, if you wanted to see them outside of what you paid in a movie or a TV show, maybe maybe you saw them at the oscars or the emmys today they if you're not and and really what it is is it's so audiences need audiences need authenticity today they value

21:11Simon Sinek:authenticity above all else all else so before they were they were actors they had a job now you have a you have a brand you're managing and that makes that makes it sound is that right yeah

21:22Rob Lowe:Yeah, but it makes, yes, but that phraseology through no fault of your own makes it sound more icky than it is. Because when you realize what's underneath it is people in a world where literally you don't even know what the truth is anymore. If you get a whiff of authenticity, that is huge to people. Because you're the same on camera than you are off camera.

21:48Simon Sinek:I mean, talking to you now, like you and I should have shooting the shit before we turn the camera. It's the same, the same cadence. It's the same personality. You don't turn it on for the cameras. I mean, this is what you see is what you get. Is that what you mean?

22:02Rob Lowe:100%. And that has always been my, a little bit of my secret sauce. It hasn't always worked in my favor. I won't name names, but people can do the math. I came up with a bunch of guys all about the same time, same looks, same level of talent. and one became a gigantic, gigantic, iconic movie star. But the way that that person did it is they were a different person in private than they were in public. And I've just... Which works for a while. Which I just can't... First of all, I don't want to live like that. Yeah, yeah. But like, I just couldn't do it. Do you know what I mean?

22:45Simon Sinek:The reason I keep scraping this, why I'm fascinated by this, is less about Hollywood, but more that I see that Hollywood and sort of show business is an exaggeration for real life. Yes. Everything's exaggerated. Yes. And I think lots of people live lives where who they are publicly and who they are privately and who they are at work and who they are at home are, we're all slightly different, of course. Yes. You have to be. But there are some who are very different. and um and i think the concept of authenticity is something that we want at work we want from our friends we want from our companies and it's and we're we're pushing it and so i like looking at hollywood for the lessons because everything is so exaggerated it makes the lessons easier to see so when you see somebody who's so diametrically different publicly than they are privately like what happens here and how does it why does it crash and and what kind of what kind of skills does it take to live an authentic life?

23:38Simon Sinek:And so is it just flexing the muscle of learning to withstand humiliation? Is it what we were saying before, which is love of life, joie de vivre, like I love this and don't worry, I'll be back tomorrow. Is it that kind of grit? Like I'm trying to discern the lessons.

23:52Rob Lowe:It's all of that. And then the other part is owning your flaws and being aware of what your blind spots are and realizing that those can also be your superpowers.

24:05Simon Sinek:How do you define authenticity? When you say that the audience these days, the people are looking for an authentic personality, what does that even mean? The term is so overused.

24:15Rob Lowe:You know what it is? It's like, what's the classic thing is what is porn? How do you describe it? You know it when you see it.

24:23Simon Sinek:That's not enough.

24:24Rob Lowe:Or like, what is modern art? You know it when you see it.

24:26Simon Sinek:Yeah, but that is an answer people give because they are struggling to find the words to find it. If you can see something, you can define it. If we know what it is and we know what it isn't, then we should be able to... Like, is the Sistine Chapel modern art? Clearly not.

24:41Rob Lowe:But what if it's a feeling? Because it's a feel. It is a feel. It's a feel. Like when you're with somebody...

24:47Simon Sinek:How do you know a dog's a dog? You know it when you see it? No. It's furry.

24:51Rob Lowe:But you're not getting a feeling off the dog. You're not getting a feeling off the dog.

24:55Simon Sinek:What we're talking about is a feel. Okay, so what's the feeling? How can we tell people be authentic if we can't tell them what to do?

25:03Rob Lowe:I can tell you exactly. Do not self-edit. There's practical shit that I have had to learn.

25:11Simon Sinek:So what does self-editing mean? So if I have, like in this conversation, if I have an instinct, something funny, I'm saying it, I'm thinking it and saying it before I've even registered that it's going to happen.

25:24Rob Lowe:As opposed to, I haven't even thought about it. It came from somewhere and I just blurted it out I've lived parts of my life where In a talk show format I wouldn't say anything Until I had thought of it How's that going to play Is that off the topic we're on Is it too mean All of those things I don't have any of them anymore When did that go away? When David Letterman fucked me When I did An appearance on David Letterman and he fucked me. There's a thing called a pre-interview, right? Do you know what a pre-interview is? Where you, and I get it. I have now being a podcast host. I don't have this because I invite really good people.

26:10Rob Lowe:I don't have a machine where I have to have fill time. But if you do, you're going to run up against people who have nothing to say.

26:17Simon Sinek:Right.

26:17Rob Lowe:And so as a protection mechanism, these talk shows have a pre-interview process. You get some actor who does another ass from a hole in the ground. they've you know they don't know what the fuck they're doing they've got to promote a movie they're boring they can only they're funny if somebody writes for them right and now you got to be out there so they have a pre-interview where you kind of agree on what the stories are going to be and if they say this you're going to say that and they do well they can't totally can't yeah

26:39Simon Sinek:totally can't yeah and we can tell 100 yeah it's like comedians doing bits instead of answering

26:44Rob Lowe:questions so i and and we did it and letterman's public producer was like obsessed with a story that I told them that I knew was stupid. But they were like, say that story. Make sure you tell that story. Dave loves that story. I'm thinking to myself, I'm having this instinct. This is not a good story. I don't even get it. The only reason I mentioned this story is because they put me through a two and a half hour pre-interview for an interview that might be three minutes long. And by the way, the message of that is you're boring. you have nothing to say keep talking eventually we're going to get to a story that's worthy of the great David Letterman

27:30Simon Sinek:right so

27:34Rob Lowe:I come out and I'm and they've got me do you remember the Warner Brothers cartoons when like Bugs Bunny would fuck Porky Pig's head up so much they'd pack different suitcases on top of him and spin him around and then he'd walk right off of a out of a window of a hotel and fall to his death that was me they're like here do this take that and remember this if dave says this you say that and remember the one story and then i'm out there i tell the story it's a long story and they're like really tell the story i tell the story and by the way the story was about going camping with my dad and um we had to fly on a plane and a bush plane and they let me fly it and i put us in a in a loop and that was it there was no end there was nothing I finished the story to crickets which I kind of knew were coming dead long dead air silence and Letterman looks at me and goes you know what you seem like a good kid after the show you'll come up in my office and we're going to work on that story fuck me

28:36Simon Sinek:wow

28:39Rob Lowe:and so was it what I learned from that yeah is I'm going to trust my instincts. I'm going to say what I want when I want.

28:51Simon Sinek:Yeah.

28:52Rob Lowe:Because it couldn't have gone worse.

28:53Simon Sinek:Yeah.

28:54Rob Lowe:Checking the boxes.

28:56Simon Sinek:Right. So even if you trust your own instincts and it fails, you're still at ground zero. And it turns out, guess what?

29:02Rob Lowe:I've got good instincts.

29:04Simon Sinek:Yeah.

29:04Rob Lowe:Because guess what? You can't be a good actor without good instincts.

29:07Simon Sinek:Yeah.

29:07Rob Lowe:You can't. Can't. You cannot.

29:10Simon Sinek:It's what we work with. So you learn from the humiliation to say, you know what, I'm going to trust my instinct and tell my own stories. That's right. And so how do we teach someone to trust their gut without having to get to the point where they get? So have you been able to teach your kids? Have you been able to teach your friends how to develop this muscle other than trust me, this is what happened to me. Don't make the same mistake.

29:40Rob Lowe:I mean, it's like, for example, if I were talking to a CEO of a company and it was about like, how can I be better talking at a retreat or how can I be better in interviews? Right. Which I would say highlight your fears, your flaws, what you like, the very thing that you don't want to talk about is the very thing that you need to talk about that makes you interesting and makes you relatable. And, you know, I, I think that get off script, do something unexpected, do something unexpected.

30:30it by telling it first of all it takes courage a friend of mine so the word vulnerability and

30:37Simon Sinek:being vulnerable has is now overused to the point where i'm not even sure anybody knows what it means and worse to mo to many people the word vulnerable is equated with weakness that's right my friend i love this she doesn't use the word vulnerable she for all the reasons she hates the word. She uses the word available, which I've really taken to, which is make yourself available, right? Like make yourself available, show people that you're, that you are available to, to, to talk about your mistakes, that you're available emotionally, that you're available, you know, to show your humility and the courage it takes to be available, to make yourself available, because to be unavailable is nothing but walls and smoke screens okay so let's talk about something that's adjacent to that like people always say the thing i like about rob is he

31:31Rob Lowe:doesn't take himself seriously i hate that as much as i hate the vulnerable thing because i do take myself if i'm not going to take myself seriously who the fuck is going to you're not a character no but you know what i mean but they use it all the time but what they're saying yeah yeah i'm I'm willing to discuss and not hide my flaws. Yeah. I hate the phrase he doesn't take himself seriously. Yeah. To the contrary, bro. Take himself really seriously. I mean, I've worked on myself. I'm not running nilly-willy around the fucking world, but the notion of being self-deprecating. Let's talk about that too.

32:13Rob Lowe:Because again, if you watch all of my heroes would go on talk shows and be so funny about themselves Burt Reynolds fucking Kennedy's press you ever seen John Kennedy's press conferences oh they're amazing they're like one man shows he gets up there and he's making he's taking the piss like the English would say taking the piss out of himself that to me is so much more attractive than someone is trying to show you how cool they are all the time

32:43Simon Sinek:yeah Yeah. And I think it's relatable. I mean, because we're all bundled. It's much more relatable when people are self-deprecating or at least willing to point out their flaws because we're all bundles of insecurity. We're all imperfect. And when somebody presents themselves as perfect, it actually makes them very difficult to relate to.

33:00Rob Lowe:Yes.

33:01Simon Sinek:You know, where when somebody shows us.

33:04Rob Lowe:Well, because we also know. We also know it's not true. Going back to. Yeah. So, you know, it's not authentic. Yeah. You immediately know, well, they're not authentic.

33:10Simon Sinek:Okay, so going back to what it takes to be authentic. So being authentic means willing to make yourself available, willing to show who the real you is. And that means talking about mistakes, fears, anxieties. I mean, you, and I think having a healthy sense of humor about oneself is a sign of great self-confidence, not the opposite. Remember, we all went to school with the kid who could dish it out but couldn't take it.

33:34Rob Lowe:Yes.

33:35Simon Sinek:And I have great respect for the kids who can dish it out and who can take it. Same. Right? And that's right when you see, I'm just thinking of some like Peyton Manning. Yeah.

33:45Rob Lowe:Or you see these athletes, you see certain athletes who get into a broadcast booth and they're just kind of, because they're scared and they're trying to be perfect and they have an image to maintain and whatever. And then you get a guy like Peyton Manning just like making fun of his forehead, making fun of himself. And like, well, I wasn't exactly the most nimble guy in the pocket, but this guy over here, like that's, we love that. We love that kind of stuff. And I think that the great entertainers and the great public figures always knew that. And my guess is that's something that everybody could learn from a little bit.

34:18Simon Sinek:Is there a line, though? Because we live in a world where authenticity, and now I'm putting it in air quotes, is performative, right? Where there's some social media influencer or just somebody on social media. Oh, yeah, the fake man of the people stuff. Not just fate man of the people, but just the how many takes do I take talking about how I'm struggling with my dot, dot, dot. You know? Yep. And it's like, how do we... By the way, if I were running straight inauthentic man of the people game on you, which is the thing, I would have showed up not only without the makeup and hair people, but I would have showed up making sure you are very well aware that I'm such

35:05Rob Lowe:a dude. dude, I'm just a regular guy, man. I'm a man of the people, dude. I'm not even sure I brushed my teeth today. I could have run that one on you.

35:17Simon Sinek:Yeah.

35:18Rob Lowe:It's complete bullshit. It's just a different type of bullshit.

35:22Simon Sinek:Yeah. Has social media kind of lost the plot? Is it just becoming our new entertainment? Is it just the new theater where it started off as people telling their real stories and now it's people telling their real stories-ish, but it's scripted, it's lit, it's angled it's you know i know where to put the is it like everybody like everybody knows what their angles are everybody knows to lift the camera a little high everybody knows to put the light behind the photographer like everybody knows the basics some people know more than the basics

35:51Rob Lowe:my favorite is watching people pose for selfies on the street and like every single person now knows what only we used to know right you know like the the olsen twins when they you know they They did what they did famously. They created the prune. Do you know what prune? Men don't have to do it, but gals, if you get your picture taken, people say, say cheese. I don't get that. Never mind. That doesn't. But if you go prune, you say prune, you get you get cheekbones. The perfect. You get trout pout and cheekbones. See, the fact that I know this and I'm willing to share it openly.

36:27Simon Sinek:You're like the magician revealing the secrets.

36:30Rob Lowe:Well, I have. I have. I have red carpet looks. I've got Man of the People, I've got Blue Steel, and I've got Iconic.

36:38Simon Sinek:You have names for them? Yeah. Can you? Right now? Yeah, Man of the People, please.

36:46Rob Lowe:Man of the People is when you see Tom Cruise at the line reaching out to sign thousands of autographs. He's doing Man of the People. Okay.

36:57Simon Sinek:Blue Steel?

36:58Rob Lowe:And then Blue Steel is where... The red carpet. You've got your angles. You're doing your angles. Step and repeat. Yeah, you've got... Rob, over here. Rob, over here. It's that one. You want to show the watch that they've lent you. Yeah. And you need to show that because otherwise you're not getting a watch lent. So the question is, how do you get your hand up here? So it has to be you're caught mid move like this. That's iconic. Yeah. Also looking up and off is always... The presidential photographs are always hopefully looking off to the horizon. But the horizon is not down here. horizon's up there so you're looking up to horizon and um so yeah those are those are the three the best is i i told chris pratt that with mutual friends with pratt and early on when he was just becoming a movie star he literally called me he calls me rollo rollo i'm in the car i'm on the right car what are the three what are the three again man of the people iconic and what's the other i go blue yeah yeah yeah okay thanks rollo but this is the point which is you

38:02Simon Sinek:understand it's an industry it's a game it's a game there's a there's a goof there's a rule role to play yes and if you play a role with a nudge and a wink this is the secret to longevity which is take it you take it seriously really seriously but not but not too seriously well

38:18Rob Lowe:you know it's not self-important it's not self-important and the other thing is like i see there's another there's another thing that actors do where they go they want you to think like you know i didn't do up this tie because you know i'm i'm above all this yeah yeah yeah you know this this this premiere that i've flown to france to do yeah and this tux yeah that i've either bought or rented or had fitted yeah but i'm above all i'm kind of above it yeah and and you can tell you know why because my tie's because i because my tie's loose see just so you know It's all bullshit.

38:55Simon Sinek:It's more bullshitty than doing your fucking tie-up. You are going back to that tennis. Now everybody is out there Googling.

39:02Rob Lowe:I'm going to get a phone call from Joaquin Phoenix immediately.

39:06Simon Sinek:That tennis analogy is.

39:09Rob Lowe:Premier, bro. You know you're there. You know you're there. I know you're there. Everybody knows you're there. You don't mind pissing people off.

39:18Simon Sinek:You don't mind pissing people off. or do they or do they just know that you're having fun they have to

39:24Rob Lowe:listen if somebody if the shoe were on the other foot I'd be like I fucking love dude

39:28Simon Sinek:if you're being made fun of you're relevant

39:30Rob Lowe:I'm watching Family Guy because we can't make fun

39:32Simon Sinek:of Lillian Gish

39:33Rob Lowe:she's dead can't make fun of dead people

39:36Simon Sinek:okay fine bad example okay so

39:38Rob Lowe:I'm trying to okay well you know I gotta surface so I'm watching Family Guy with my boys they're probably 10 and 11 dad you gotta watch Family Guy you gotta watch Family Guy funniest show ever I watch. It's not the first episode I watched, but it's funny. It's a really funny show. And I'm watching it, and then there's an episode where Stewie, the crazy little baby, goes to Hollywood. And he's in a makeup chair, and this flamboyant man is doing his makeup. And the scene begins with Stewie going, oh, please, just let me do one more. Can I do one more? And the makeup guy goes, of course, you can do one more.

40:16And he goes, Rob Lowe.

40:19Rob Lowe:and he goes straight and she goes no i never would have known it to look at him and i thought it was the greatest it's amazing and i called seth mcfarland yeah i go dude that's the fun and we became friends and i've done a bunch of family guys and we've worked together a bunch but he's gotten a lot of phone calls that were how dare you how dare you

40:42Simon Sinek:but to be made fun of means you're you're relevant you're in the zeitgeist because nobody makes fun of people unless they're you're making fun of the has-been-ness of them you know yeah i'm not taking which is which is mean-spirited i can take a fake-ass shot at joaquin phoenix because he's one of my favorite actors right he's one of my favorite actors one of the greatest actors we

40:59Rob Lowe:ever had right he can still do his tie-up but he's a great actor yeah if you weren't in show

41:04Simon Sinek:business what would you be doing i may not be in show business after this interview that's that's true you didn't go to college you do like that could not be more clear he clearly did not go college no no you yeah i didn't oh oh yeah but the the i don't mean it in a in a mean way i know i'd be just like i'm like serious like you have been an actor your whole life like what else could you do nothing nothing like if this doesn't work out oh bro i can't change a light bulb if this doesn't work out this is it for me

41:40Rob Lowe:my dad used to say when I was 12 he used to say tons of supportive shit like this you either better grow up to be a movie star or a prince

41:53Simon Sinek:and royal family wasn't available

41:55Rob Lowe:I tried

41:57Simon Sinek:go on

41:57Rob Lowe:Princess Stephanie I dated her for like five years five months whatever felt like five years I tried I was like you tried prince I tried I'm not cut out for it. I would have liked the diplomatic community. That would have been great, like to have the pouch that you can put shit in all over the world and park wherever you want, just like in a red light, just get out. And I'd have built for it.

42:23Simon Sinek:What was it about?

42:24Rob Lowe:A lot of long, late dinners with people that you don't want to be with, and nobody works.

42:30Simon Sinek:But you have long, late dinners with people you don't want to be with.

42:32Rob Lowe:Is there anybody else I can trash in this podcast?

42:35Simon Sinek:I mean this is like this is the episode we can call it the one where Rob Lowe trashes everybody who ever am I trashing? no you're not we're having fun and we're doing authenticity we're doing authenticity we're pointing out the obvious we're pointing out the things that everybody already knows I think that's what authenticity is right which is like why are you pretending to be perfect we all know you're not because we're not we all know that everybody else tied the tie for their tuxedo. We all know that you didn't. Like either a stylist told you that would look cool, you decided it would look cool, or it's an affectation.

43:14Simon Sinek:Or maybe it's really your personality and you don't want to be at the thing and you're begrudgingly there.

43:18Rob Lowe:Which is a thing. Which is a thing. I get that. I get that. I do get that.

43:21Simon Sinek:And all you want to be is an actor, but your contract says you've got to go. That's real for people. You've got to go do the press.

43:28Rob Lowe:I have respect and empathy for that. There's a lot of actors who... I just want to be really good.

43:31Simon Sinek:They begrudgingly go on the talk shows.

43:33Rob Lowe:I have total respect and empathy for people who are not...

43:38Simon Sinek:They're not marketers.

43:39Rob Lowe:And they're not comfortable in that lane. And I understand that. I really, really do. But I also understand it's a part of the job. So for me, it's way... Like meeting people on the street. I love people. I love meeting them. I love talking to them. It's way easier for me to take a picture, to say hello, than to say,

44:02Simon Sinek:I'm sorry, I don't take pictures. Yes.

44:04Rob Lowe:I've seen people do that to kids in a wheelchair.

44:06Simon Sinek:Yeah.

44:07Rob Lowe:I've seen it with my own eyes. And when I go, what's that about? They say, if I make an exception here, I have to make an exception for everybody. And I've just made a rule. I am not taking pictures with people. I'll say hello to them.

44:21Simon Sinek:Yeah.

44:22Rob Lowe:I'll have a conversation with them.

44:23Simon Sinek:Yeah.

44:23Rob Lowe:And I get the end of the day, take the fucking picture and move on.

44:26Simon Sinek:Do you want to hear the best story I heard? I just heard this last night. so Paul McCartney arguably one of the most famous people in the world right no one's Beatles proof as he said it's amazing that's what he said yeah no one's Beatles proof and people come up to him they muster up the courage to come up to him and back in the day before there were cell phones you know can I can I take a picture with you can I take a picture of you and he would always say the same thing I'm terribly sorry I'm happy to talk to you I'm happy to chat but I don't take pictures. If I take one, it'll be madness. It'll be a feeding friend.

44:59Simon Sinek:Yes. Totally understand that. Right. And he just, as a rule, Paul McCartney doesn't take pictures. September 11th happens, and he's down there, and there's some firemen, and he goes down to them and says thank you to them, and they say, can we have a picture? And he says, of course. Right? And there's a restaurant that wanted his picture, and he wouldn't take a picture, but he gave them the picture of him with the firemen. Right? He's at the restaurant and somebody comes over to him. The table says, Mr. McCartney, it's my wife's birthday. All she would love, she's a huge fan. Please, can she have her picture with you?

45:37Simon Sinek:You know, he goes, I'm sorry, I don't take pictures. He goes, but your picture, that's with firemen. I took that with firemen, but I'm sorry, I don't take pictures. I'm terribly sorry. I appreciate you asking, but I'm sorry, I don't take pictures. Paul McCartney gets up to walk out of the restaurant, walks over to the table and sings her happy birthday. Okay. That is better. That is better than a picture. That is a story.

46:00Rob Lowe:That's amazing.

46:01Simon Sinek:There's something about a photo. It's irrefutable evidence that you can share with everybody of the mall.

46:09Rob Lowe:I get why people want photos.

46:10Simon Sinek:No, no. I have photos with people. Like I don't get starstruck with many people, but there are some that I really,

46:18Rob Lowe:I did one with Paul. The last time I saw Paul, the last time I saw Paul was at his last concert and he just showed up to the VIP. I said, I said, and it's in my last book. It's a picture of me standing there. And he's got the look of like, get it over with.

46:32Simon Sinek:But I made it. But it's your picture. You know what?

46:34Rob Lowe:And here's the thing is.

46:34Simon Sinek:Because you have to.

46:35Rob Lowe:Are these guys? The other thing is.

46:38Simon Sinek:But there's a level of celebrity that is, it's otherworldly of which he is one of the. Yeah. The other one was Redford.

46:45Rob Lowe:I did it with.

46:45Simon Sinek:Yeah.

46:46Rob Lowe:Where I was like, I just, I don't give a shit. I'm taking a selfie.

46:49Simon Sinek:But I think it's fun when celebrities are starstruck by celebrities. Yes. It's like, we are the world they're all like i can't what like they're all looking around my favorite documentary it's an amazing documentary why was dan acroyd there that's what i say i could have

47:00Rob Lowe:been there i was i'm gonna go i'm sorry it's 1985 yeah you were hello i know the fuck it really made me request like really and we know you can sing and and i and we know i can fake sing yeah and there's no bigger springsteen i was in the cut i was like but then again madonna wasn't there either

47:21Simon Sinek:Were you at the Emmys? That was the American Music Awards. Oh, it was the American, okay. Because they were all there because... Dan Aykroyd wasn't at the American Music Awards.

47:32Rob Lowe:I still don't know why... Was he supplying the drugs?

47:34Simon Sinek:They never touched upon it in the documentary why Dan Aykroyd was there.

47:38Rob Lowe:No.

47:39Simon Sinek:Does Dan Aykroyd know why Dan Aykroyd was there?

47:40Rob Lowe:Maybe it's a blues... He does have Blues Brothers. That's a real thing.

47:44Simon Sinek:And he can sing. He's the Blues Brothers. They're the real sold out arenas. That's true. Okay, I'll give him that. Yeah. And it was at the time.

47:51Rob Lowe:I feel better about myself. Okay. Thank you.

47:53Simon Sinek:Yeah, that's right. You didn't have a Blues Brothers type film and you weren't selling out arenas for your singing.

47:58Rob Lowe:I was fake playing the saxophone and saying almost fire at that very time.

48:02Simon Sinek:Did you at least take some training of where to put your fingers or were you literally just making up whatever? A little bit of both. A little bit of both. I'm always fascinated how much effort celebrities or actors, not celebrities, actors put in for a part. Like you have to learn the violin. Yeah. And you can tell if they're getting it, they're just making it up.

48:17Rob Lowe:And now with AI, you don't need to do any of it. That's true.

48:19Simon Sinek:Have you done fighting scenes? Sure, lots of them. Like, are you good? Like, how many skills do you have?

48:25Rob Lowe:I have, oh, do I?

48:26Simon Sinek:That you'd never thought you would have.

48:28Rob Lowe:Can I tell you? Can you sword fight? Can you shoot a gun? My abilities are literally a mile wide and an inch deep. Like, I've played so many doctors. Like, if you were to, God forbid, have a medical emergency right now, I could, I'm almost certain I could almost save your life.

48:51Simon Sinek:I mean just before we turned on the cameras there was some smoke across the street and you literally said I've played a fireman don't worry it's okay it's white smoke yeah I mean you literally you literally did the I played a doctor on tv and that's the beauty of

49:07Rob Lowe:what I get to do is I learned so much I have I have a lot of knowledge no actually I legit want

49:13Simon Sinek:to know I want to know the skills you have you we know you can act we know you can we know you can

49:17Rob Lowe:shoot guns, ride horses. You know, I could put the fucking... I was watching Mission Impossible. Like, oh, they're going to put the pen in his lung to let the air in. They did it. I'm like, I've done like rescue people.

49:31Simon Sinek:What skills do you have that are applicable in the outside world that you learn because of a film or a TV show? So riding a horse, got it. You could ride a horse not on screen. Shooting a gun, great. You could shoot. Could you pick up a gun, assemble it, and shoot it? Yes.

49:47Rob Lowe:blindfolded okay that's a skill i could um if you were to tie me up actually no later we'll talk later um turn off the cameras if you're if you're if you're to tie my hands behind my back and tie my feet and throw me into the deep end of your pool i could survive that's good like a navy seal i played a phony baloney navy seal yeah and so they so you went through the training for a few

50:11Simon Sinek:Yeah, buds. Yeah, exactly. A little bit of buds.

50:13Rob Lowe:Yeah, totally. So I can do ring pickups. I can do a lot of - What's a ring pickup? Ring pickup. They don't do them anymore. They're too violent even for the Navy SEALs, but you would surface in the middle of nowhere and you would tread water and put your arm in like a sea thing. And then a Zodiac would come ripping down and would catch you and just flip you up into the - That sounds awful. And the Navy SEALs only do it once. What you do in the movie, you're doing it 14 times. what movie was this that you played a Navy SEAL? A terrible movie called The Finest Hour. Before Chris Pratt cornered the market on military entertainment, there were only very few Navy SEAL movies.

50:53Rob Lowe:And like I would go to Bud's and they'd be like, I love your movie. I'm like, it's the only, it's really, there's only been two Navy SEAL movies. It was bad. Called The Finest Hour, bad. But again, the gift of that movie was that I got to learn a lot about that world and make a lot of friends in that world and have a little footprint in that world.

51:10Simon Sinek:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really one of the best things about the crazy life, which is you get to meet some amazing, amazing people. Yes.

51:16Rob Lowe:Yeah, for sure.

51:18Simon Sinek:Yeah. So Paul McCartney is one of the highlights of your career meeting Paul McCartney.

51:22Rob Lowe:Cary Grant. You know, all those. Mick. I mean, you get to meet your heroes. There are very few people that I have an attitude. They always say,

51:31Simon Sinek:don't meet your heroes, though.

51:33Rob Lowe:I would say, don't get to know your heroes.

51:35Simon Sinek:Okay.

51:36Rob Lowe:Meeting is one thing.

51:37Simon Sinek:Okay.

51:37Rob Lowe:Like I'm friendly-ish with Bruce Springsteen. He's my favorite. He's my guy. And it's gotten, like, I know him enough now. Like, it's like, you just, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's hard to, like, cry when he's singing The River when you're going to go pizza with him later. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, it gets hard. Everybody needs to be a fan of somebody. It ruins the magic.

52:04Simon Sinek:I remember the first time there was this magic trick that I loved, super simple card trick that a friend of mine used to do. And I begged him to teach me so I could do it for other people. And he quizzed me. Why do you want to learn it? I said, I want to learn it because I want to give other people the feeling that you gave me. He's like, that's a good reason. I'll teach it to you. And he taught me the trick and it completely ruined it. Because it's not magic. It's just a trick. And now that I knew the trick, I lost the magic.

52:31Rob Lowe:Don't lose the magic.

52:33Simon Sinek:Don't lose the magic, right? Don't lose the magic. And I think this is to your point, which is you can meet your heroes, just don't get to know your heroes, because it turns out they're people. And you said the song loses its magic because you know the person.

52:46Rob Lowe:Yeah. Some people can transcend it.

52:48Simon Sinek:Because awe of something or someone is a magical thing. Yes. The best. And you never want to lose all because that's jaded.

52:57Rob Lowe:Yes. Yes. I'm definitely not jaded. I mean, it's weird. I'm cynical, but I'm not jaded.

53:03Simon Sinek:Yeah. Is that even possible? No, no, I think so. I think, and it goes right back to where we started, which is you have joy. You have unbridled joy for life. You have unbridled joy for your career, for your craft. You have fun and you take it seriously, but I think what you teach us, and this is what I'm getting from you, what I'm learning from you, you just can be very serious about something and have a lot of fun with something simultaneously. Yes. You can take life very seriously because life is serious and you can have a lot of fun with it and you can have the struggles and you can talk about your fuck-ups and you can talk about your own demons and you can have fun in all of that as well.

53:41Simon Sinek:There's absurdity in all the struggle and there's realness in all the fun.

53:46Rob Lowe:Like when I talk about drugs and alcohol, there's nothing more serious than that. There's nothing more serious than if you know someone who's suffering, really suffering with drugs and alcohol. It's as serious as anything out there. Right. and when I talk share speak around the country which I do a lot there are big time laughs big time in that because if you can find humor in that you can find humor in anything and there are plenty of people who can talk very movingly and you get a lot from it and you're crying the whole time that's not why i got put here i got put here for to to inject a different thing into the conversation and and and i it's taken me a lot of years to to learn it and to learn that like to the extent that anybody has a secret sauce i think maybe that's that's mine

54:47Simon Sinek:stephen colbert says you know you can't you can't be angry or sad when you're laughing I mean literally the most difficult times where we're struggling or in sad if somebody can make a joke like humor matters it's a salve it's a balm and you can't be angry and you can't be sad when you're laughing

55:10Rob Lowe:I remember we talked it's so weird that my grandmother keeps coming up in our talks but when you were on my podcast we talked about my grandmother and I'm just remembering when she passed away I was blessed to be at her bedside and she when she finally passed away there's that moment like now what happens and a new nurse came in and looked at me and literally over my grandmother's not even still warm body produced a pen and paper and said could I get your autograph she's handing it over my dead grandmother's body and i remember going yeah i i i don't i don't sign in pen

56:01Rob Lowe:what are you gonna you know what are you gonna do right you can get angry but right you have to see

56:05Simon Sinek:the but this is the point this is one of the things that i really have i really appreciate about you which is you you see the absurdity of life and the joy of life woven in it's part of it right like like it's all woven it's it's a tapestry and and it's all for fun and i think this is what authenticity is and i think the reason you don't get in trouble when you say some of the things you do is because people know it's it's just it's life and you're just

56:30Rob Lowe:pointing at it i'm never saying anything that isn't i mean i'm like anybody i'm capable of saying things that aren't true i'm capable of lying all the things that human beings do because were flawed but when i'm doing that thing it's i'm they everybody knows that you're just having fun that the one they know that i'm right but the the other thing that about longevity and like you know i did television when movie people didn't do television like i host a game show that would be career death like and and i'm sure there are probably some actors i don't think Daniel Day Lewis is looking to do a game show but what I when they came to me with it the reason I did it was I just come off of doing a one-man show being in front of a live audience with stakes like actual it's live to tape there's no second tape there's a hundred regular folks that you have to interact with you don't know what they're going to say you know what it's a free shot on goal all the time there's money at stake that changes people's lives and you're the quarterback going do we need to be funny now do we need to be to embrace the drama oh do i do have to reset how much money we played and it's all happening all at once live in this enormous set and it is so exciting it's so exciting and it's not at all what i thought it would be and yet it's more than I thought it would be.

58:02Rob Lowe:And it's a part of entertainment that I'd never been in.

58:07Simon Sinek:But this is, so we talked about this. So you were a movie actor where it was career death to do TV, you did TV. You're a movie and TV actor where it's considered sort of career death to now do a game show. What is the reason you take these pretty extreme pivots where the common sense of the industry is you probably shouldn't try that. Like what is the appeal of doing something so out of, you know, sort of off the game plan of the career? Or maybe that is the career plan.

58:38Rob Lowe:I like to think that I, because I can smell bullshit a mile away, I can, and I hate artifice and pretension. So if you take those things out, then all of a sudden, you're not judging a game show negatively. And I know what it means to people. Like people watch the floor in a way that they don't watch anything else I've ever done. I have eight-year-olds watching with their parents. I love that. That does not happen. They're not all getting together to watch Euphoria. Right, right. They're not. And the parents aren't there watching The Summer I Got Pretty or whatever the fuck. Yeah, we live in a world in which everybody goes

59:27Simon Sinek:to their separate room to watch their TV shows. And rare are the shows that a family comes together and sits on a couch and watches together.

59:32Rob Lowe:And when I get that and I get it all the time, that means a lot to me.

59:36Simon Sinek:Rob Lowe, you are uniting families.

59:38Rob Lowe:I'm bringing back the family. You're bringing back the family. One quiz show at a time.

59:43Simon Sinek:One quiz show at a time. Doing the Lord's work. That's right. Of all the characters you've played, who's your dream intern? Who's your CEO? And who's getting fired? Oh, wow.

59:54Rob Lowe:Dream intern? I'm Chris Trager, Parks and Recreation.

59:58Simon Sinek:Who's your CEO?

1:00:00Rob Lowe:I'm going with Sam Seaborn. He was running the White House, effectively. Who's getting fired? Oh, 100 % my character I played in Californication, Eddie Nero. He's getting fired. He's going to HR immediately.

1:00:16Simon Sinek:You've worked with your son. What's one piece of advice you'd give someone about working with family?

1:00:21Rob Lowe:Do it whenever you can. It's the greatest gift.

1:00:28Rob Lowe:the shorthand, the pride.

1:00:32Simon Sinek:Is it strange playing a character with your son playing a character? Yes. Who's, I mean.

1:00:40Rob Lowe:Yes, very much so. And then you can't help yourself. And also just accept the fact that you lean into the fact that you're still dad. Like his thing is he calls, he would never call me dad on the set. It was always Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob. as if I was, as if everybody didn't know. I want to go, hey, they know.

1:00:57Simon Sinek:Right.

1:00:59Rob Lowe:But we would be in a scene and I would just be thinking, I don't like his hair like that. He needs a haircut. Do you know what I mean? Can't help yourself. Yeah, I can't help myself. Or like, I'd be like, I think he needs to engage his core the way he's standing here. So, and then we ended up writing that into the show. Unstable, still streaming on Netflix. Two seasons available.

1:01:22Simon Sinek:Anything that you've learned career or personal that just help you get through the day and make life a little easier?

1:01:32Rob Lowe:Live in gratitude. Manage expectations.

1:01:38Simon Sinek:Yours or other people's?

1:01:40Rob Lowe:Mine.

1:01:44Simon Sinek:Rob, such a joy. So fun. You're so fun. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

1:01:49Rob Lowe:No, it's great. Thank you.

1:01:50Simon Sinek:A Bit of Optimism is brought to you by The Optimism Company. and is lovingly produced by our team, Lindsay Garbenius and Devin Johnson. If I was able to give you any kind of insight or some inspiration or made you smile, please subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts for more. And if you're trying to get answers to a problem at work or want to advance a dream, maybe I can help. Simply go to simonsynic.com. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.