Why This Baseball Team Has a 4.2 Million Person Waitlist With Savannah Bananas Founder Jesse Cole

20:28Jesse Cole:And it's a bigger picture. And even after a tough loss, you look around and see a sold out crowd and understand they came for that. As opposed to, if you go watch your favorite team, at the end of the night, they lose. You watch people leave that stadium. They're upset. They're angry. I don't ever want to have people leave a stadium or event feeling that. I mean, look, what you're doing wouldn't work in professional sports. You have the freedom to do these things. We could never make professional sports as fun. Yeah. But I think there's pieces that can. Go on. You can break down the barrier between the fans and the players.

21:01Jesse Cole:Why do you have to have so much of a barrier? You know, people don't realize our players go and meet the fans for hours. When the gates open at 2 o 'clock. I was blown away by this, that a game started at 7 p.m. But the gates open at 2. At 2 o 'clock. That's unheard of. And there's thousands waiting because the players, the first impression matters. Yeah. The first thing they see, we do a big opening. First thing they see is all the players greeting them at 2 o 'clock. They sign till 3. Then we do an hour and 15 minute show out in front of the stadium. and then at 415 we do our big march this is where both teams our band all of our cast we go through and march through 10-15 ,000 fans and we make sure we feel it we know they're here for us they're not necessarily are you going to get a single are you going to strike a guy they're here for this experience they're here to meet you and when we get on the stage and do the big opening at 430 it's very clear who we're playing for what did you learn from PT Barnum I mean you look at him it's promotion he was the greatest people always say you know Jesse could you do this right now without social media you know people know us a lot because of social media with 35 million followers.

21:57Jesse Cole:But like, yeah, P.T. Barnum didn't have social media. What people don't realize about marketing, I've learned this over the years. Everyone's like, oh, you guys are good at marketing. I'm like, we spend$0 marketing. We invest everything in the experience and we capture that and share that. Make your experience so remarkable that it does all the marketing for you. And so what P.T. Barnum did the exact same thing. He made sure when you came to his museum, you were gonna see things, you were gonna feel things that you've never seen before. And people leave that museum and they tell everybody. And with Jenny Lind, he created a whole story about her.

22:30Jesse Cole:And when she came overseas to perform, she sold out everywhere and people didn't even know who she was, but he created stories and started talking about her, not just her music. He could build and promote. And then she performed and people were blown away. And then they kept coming back. And so P.T. Barnum was the greatest promoter, I think, of all time. And then Walt Disney is where my biggest inspiration is. And his vision was a different level. What did you learn from Walt Disney? Well, he said it's kind of fun to do the impossible. And Walt was told every step of the way that he couldn't do something.

23:00Jesse Cole:But he saw a better way by putting himself in his guest shoes. You know, you can't do a full-length animation film. You can't do sound. You can't do color. Amusement park? What are you talking about? He went to all those amusement parks. Yeah. And everyone said, you can't do this. Look, they're dirty. They all have the same rides. It's not a good experience. Yeah. Because that's the exact reason why I'm going to do it. And they told him it's going to fail. They said, why are you putting all this money in landscaping and a castle? and these, you know, there's no money. There's no money there. He goes, no, I want to create an experience that is truly special, makes you feel something.

23:31Jesse Cole:And Walt said, you know, movie theater, once you do something, it's done. He goes, the great thing about Disneyland, it's a living, breathing thing. It'll never be complete. We will always plus the show. And so that was great because he learned, you go to a movie theater, the show's over. It might be dirty, how people treat you. He goes, what if when you have one entrance, which everyone said, can't do one entrance, Walt. You got to have them come in. I want you to see the berm, see the flowers, come out and then see Main Street, then the castle, the music happens, and then you're going to feel this.

23:57Jesse Cole:He mapped it like a movie. So that's what we try to do every night when people first come to our stadium. We map the feeling till the end of the night with Stand By Me, which is one of the most powerful things. All the cast, all of us arms around each other, the band playing in the middle, we're singing Stand By Me. It sounds kumbaya, but it's a moment. Again, you feel together and you've gone through a whole experience. That I love. You know that Walt Disney was so obsessed with it. Do you know why there's the huge berm, you know, in front of the entrance at Disneyland? Well, I mean, it's trying to block out the world and make you feel like you're a part of it.

24:28Jesse Cole:Right, which I love. Like once you're in, you can't see out anymore. And there's no newspapers in Disneyland. Yes. You feel like you're in the world. Because you don't want any access to the outside world, which I love. Yes. You wanted to create this escape. And do you know what the garbage cans at Disneyland? The spacing. The spacing. So what they did was in the early days of Disneyland, the Imagineers, they would follow guests. so if they had garbage in their hands they would count how many steps they would take before they finally got fed up because they couldn't find a garbage can and just threw it on the ground and i don't remember the exact number but let's say it's 27 steps so they put a garbage can every 23 steps yeah walt said he had a hot dog and so he walked with a hot dog once he was done with the hot dog so he worked with him yeah i mean and he used to time the rides he would time every ride you know he went on the jungle cruise once this is crazy jungle cruise and it was supposed to be seven minutes.

25:13Jesse Cole:It was four and a half minutes. Boy, he was upset after that. He went to Dick Nudis and he said, what's going on? It needs to be seven minutes. And so they made it seven minutes because they were trying to rush and get more people in. He goes, no, I want them to feel the full experience of it. And he always said, whenever I go on a ride, I'm always asking, what's wrong with this thing and how it can be improved? People might say, oh, that's a pessimist. Nah, nah, that's the way of looking. How do you make something truly great? And so that's the way we look at everything with our shows. I love the obsession that you have.

25:38And again, you know it's for people it's not for a bottom line you built a business for a human being and the irony is is every business is for a human being you know whether you're helping people be entertained or you're helping people solve a problem or you're helping people enjoy something or make their lives a little simpler like whatever it is there's a human being at the end of every single every single business and how do you make them feel and how do you make them feel and it is amazing to me in this day and age of engineers and AI and everybody forgets. And this is my big complaint about AI as well, which is everybody forgets there's still a human being interacting with it.

26:13Yes.

26:13Jesse Cole:Yeah. Well, and again, that goes back to the mindset that you're feeling alive, like it's human, human connection. As we get in the future, I think as AI gets more, people are going to be more hungry for the human, human connection, the real connection where you can just have something, you walk away and you feel alive. I'm in one financial meeting a year. It's less than two hours. It's in November. Our CFO shares where we are. I look at it and say, good. I have no interest in that. And again, we run an airbed with nothing. And so when you learn, you go through it, you experience it. Like, no, I'm going to create a billion fans.

26:44Jesse Cole:I'm so focused on the next, you know, it's like, you know, public next quarter. I'm focused on the next quarter century. What can we build? What can we grow? Where can we bring joy to places that people expect? And the youth and the kids. I have a seven-year-old son who every day he picks up a yellow banana ball which is our banana ball and he's doing tricks he's out in front doing tricks and they call him mav trick his name is maverick and it's just so fun to watch that joy and i think kids used to have that even more they'd play more outside like there's a whole big future world where i believe we can bring this where people think it's just a show to a game to joy and so i think people think of the next chess move we're going to make i'm trying to see the whole chess board Do you have fear?

27:23Yeah. What are you afraid of?

27:25Jesse Cole:I'm at my worst when probably the gap in the gain mindset when we work so hard to nail something and it can go wrong. And I have this expectation of this amazing performance, this amazing show. That's when I'm at a tough point. I have to believe that the yellow tuxedo is in part branding, but also in part a reminder to you that you have to be this persona. 100%. Because if you just show up in a jersey and jeans. Or a buttoned up suit trying to be professional. This is as much a reminder to you when you see this ridiculous color that you're wearing. You're like, I got to be yellow all the time.

28:02Jesse Cole:The origin of this came from P.T. Barton. He was putting on a show. He wore the tails. He wore the hat. He's putting on a show. But for me, it is permission for our team to have fun and not take themselves too seriously. If your owner is in a yellow tux top hat when it's 100 degrees and he's throwing out. Technically, it's a bowler. Yeah. You're right. And he's. I mean, I throw Dolce and banana underwear into the crowd. Like literally everyone thinks they're getting a t-shirt and it's actually our banana logo on the crotch. And I throw it to a grown man that's getting way too excited for a t-shirt.

28:30Jesse Cole:I get it to him. And then he's putting on the Dolce and banana where it's on the video board. Like if I'm throwing out Dolce and banana in a yellow tux and I'm the owner, everyone else can have fun and not take themselves too seriously. So yes, there is a method. And that's why we all dress up and have fun. It's just, it's play. It's joy. It's joy. Yeah. I think I fear if you go deeper than that, I go to fear. It sounds trite, but irrelevance, feeling like we don't matter. I feel what we've done, we've put so much effort into, and something happens where it doesn't matter to people anymore. It doesn't have that same emotional connection.

29:06Jesse Cole:It doesn't have that same love and passion behind it. I fear losing that, losing that. But not money. Oh, no. No, money's not. It's never been a thing for me. I didn't pay myself my first three months when I was 23 years at the gym because there was no money in the account. My dad taught me to try to save. So I saved some money. I lived through that. We grocery shopped with$30 a week. I did a 2026 fans first report, like a shareholder letter, but I did to the fans. And I shared everything, even where we're investing money, where we're going. And it's like, I just want to put accountability and responsibility to WeWork for you, even though I don't have to share that publicly, there's no reason to share any of that.

29:51Jesse Cole:I guess I have a fear in 5, 10, 15 years that where we are right now, I hope we're at this level of emotional connection, joy, people feeling a part of it, pride. We are at such a unique level. We're playing. We did the Superdome two weeks ago. We found out that we were the only sporting event in history, in history of the Superdome, to sell out back-to-back nights with 140 ,000 fans. Only like Taylor Swift, Rolling Stone, like only a few concerts have done it we're at a very unique spot right now i don't want to look in 10 15 20 years and feel like we can't make that same type of impact so where what's the vision for 10 15 years from now like you're not you're definitely not doing the same thing you have to yeah you have to continue reinvent so i think a lot of people think about where their current customers are i think about where our future fans are you know i've been inspired by disney so what you know they created disneyland where's our world is there any sports and entertainment world we're building all these characters, singers, performers.

30:43Jesse Cole:We did a cruise ship. We sold out a cruise ship, which makes no sense for a banana ball. We did it because constraints foster creativity. What if we have to now entertain for five straight days with no banana ball? What could we figure out then? And so we did for five days. And actually the last day, which was crazy, we couldn't get into port, Simon, because the fog. So we had programmed four or five days perfectly. We had everything. And then they couldn't get to port. So we have a sold out cruise ship, 3000 people, all of our cast and Emily, who's championed this project. She goes, all right, let's go 8am.

31:12Jesse Cole:So we get together, everyone. We planned 17 hours of programming from new shows, new musical numbers, new Q and A's, new sessions of banana ball on the court. And people left at around 1am. We were the last ones off the ship at 1am. And the feeling of pride and fans said, we are so glad that we didn't, they missed their flights. They missed everything because they were all leaving that day in the morning. Right, right, right, right. We got so many letters of appreciation and gratitude. They said it made the cruise ship because of all the extra obsession of programming and details. And when I look at moments like that, I say, well, how else can we entertain?

31:47Jesse Cole:Is it a theme park that we build that's in our own worlds, each one party animals and the tailgaters and the firefighters and the coconuts and the bananas. We create something truly special. We're creating original music. We're doing all these things that we can create. And so, yeah, I see us more in the ethos of a Disney that we are an entertainment company. Youth, banana ball, bringing that to kids all over the world that they can play and not be afraid to celebrate and do walk-ups and dancing and do trick plays, not be afraid about what people think and say about them. This is a world where you can have fun.

32:15Jesse Cole:And so I think there's a lot on the table. It's just what can we try and experiment with to get to that next at bat and keep getting to that next at bat. Timing matters, right? Because Walt Disney opened Disney World in the 50s and it was post-Depression, post-World War II. There was new wealth in the nation. And there was an entire generation that had missed out on their childhood. That's how they felt. Like they went from the Depression to the war. And this was a place that they could escape the pressures of the real world and disappear for a while. It's somewhat classless. It's sort of for everybody kind of thing.

32:49Yeah, 100%. And so the question is, could Walt Disney have founded it 20 years earlier or 20 years later? Who knows? But timing's a thing for a lot of companies. What is it about the times we live in now that makes the bananas so important?

33:05Jesse Cole:Like, why now? We learned to create moments. You know, we followed a Saturday Night Live model and how every night we're doing brand new things that are timely, that are relevant, that are trending. And we're able to do create those moments. And so we've been able to grow rapidly. I mean, you know, we only sold two things when we started. But now, like I said, we're going to be approaching 40 million followers. But that's the shows. Yes. But I mean the enterprise. Would it have worked 30 years ago? where are people's heads that that you fill a gap you give an escape you give somebody you giving a family something that like your moment is now what do you think i think that we are living in disconnected times i think that families struggle to come up with things to do that make them feel like a family you know there's a tv in every room at least when we were younger there was like the tv in the tv room and that was it you do it together You either watch the same show or you don't watch TV.

34:01And maybe only mom and dad had a small TV in their bedroom. And then we also have personal screens. And so I think it's a time of extreme disconnection. I also think what we were talking about before, which is the hyper competitiveness of business, which is growth for growth's sake and I'm better than you. And the idea of doing something for the sheer joy of doing it and the sheer passion of doing it, that there is no necessarily a finish line or a goal that you know you've won when you've hit this dollar or this number of followers, hit your metric. I mean, it's sort of corny, but it's the joy of the game, right?

34:34So I think the time is right now for what you do.

34:38Jesse Cole:But what the question is, it's like what Bezos used to always say is, you know, everyone asks what's going to change in the next 10 years. But he said, well, what's not going to change? People are going to want things faster, a wider selection and better prices. What's not going to change? So what you just brought up right there, the question is, will that change in the next 10, 20, 30 years or will it even grow even stronger? I think it's to your favor. Yes. Because I think it's getting worse. Yeah. I mean, not to get dramatic, but if things continue as they are with AI and social media and there's no significant restraints or constraints, or interventions or re-understandings how these things impact our lives.

35:19My prediction as AI grows, you'll watch the suicide numbers go up, right? The more that AI becomes integrated in our lives and AI become friends in our social lives, watch the suicides go up, right? That's the metric to watch. And I think that what you do is profoundly the opposite because suicide, again, I know this is dramatic for what we're talking about, but suicide is a response to loneliness and feeling unseen, unheard, misunderstood. And you're creating the exact opposite. You're creating togetherness. You're creating joy. You're creating feeling seen. And I love that your players were almost all, it'll change, but almost all rejected.

36:07They're not rejects. They were just rejected. And they felt like rejects. and you've given them a second lease on life that they have found out that they're talented and that they're gifted and that there's even more joy in doing something else still in the thing that they love, which is baseball. But professional players would dream to have this kind of response, especially a second tier or third tier player who's not, you know, Otani or something. And so I think what you're doing now, and it's one of the reasons I'm such a huge fan of yours, is more important now than ever before. You're making families drive somewhere and have an outing.

36:47And by the way, it's not like a Disney vacation, which for some families is a year's worth or two years or three years worth of savings to go on that week vacation. This is a reasonably priced on purpose experience.

37:00Jesse Cole:40, 50,$60, no ticket fees, no convenient fees. We pay your taxes, I mean, intentionally. And there's no open market, so the tickets don't spike. And I know you've put a lot of effort into, you know. We built our own secondary market at all face value, which is unheard of. Yes. And thank you for taking on Ticketmaster. Thank you so much for taking on that monopoly. Your time is now. And I'm glad you're seizing it. Well, thank you. I think that's a huge responsibility. And I think because our group has purpose in why we do what we do, we show up to every stadium. The first thing we do, we get together.

37:35Jesse Cole:We go to the upper deck, the furthest away seats. And we talk to them and say, we put ourselves in our fan seats, say, how are we going to make this experience special? We always break it down on fans first. And at the end of the night, we talk about the stories, the moments that truly matter. And I hope as we grow, that continues to not be taken for granted. And it's understanding why we do what we do. And it's the feeling. And you mentioned the players, but we have 150 cast members. We have so many former pro wrestlers that have now become part of our dad bod cheerleading squad, the Manannas, or have become part of the beefy boys on the tailgaters.

38:12Jesse Cole:And they never fully made it. And now they're here and they're entertaining in front of thousands. Which is what they wanted to do. They get to entertain thousands. That's what they wanted to do. They get to feel part of something and proud and doing things. I mean, yes, the Manannas dancing to Beyonce on the field. They probably didn't have that on their bingo card, but they're doing it. And fans are going nuts and wanting pictures and signing autographs. I'm watching regular, you know, just our cast members or people in merchandise and tickets. They sign autographs. Think about that. The idea of signing an autograph and that people, you go and go to your job and during your job, people come and thank you and ask you for their autograph.

38:46Jesse Cole:You know, I'm very fortunate as the owner and my wife, we get a lot of the recognition, but nothing makes me feel more fulfilled than seeing our people get that every single day on the job. But this is, again, I know this is a broken record, but I can't stop, but I'm like running other businesses through my head as we're talking. So airlines put all the attention on the front of the plane and for the most part, ignore the back of the plane. You're going to the nosebleeds and trying to understand the experience. And you understand there is a front of stadium experience that is different and better and you're closer.

39:19And you don't take that for granted and you get more by being in front, of course, because you paid for it. Like nobody minds the front of the plane, but not at the expense of the back of the plane. Nobody minds front of the stadium, but not at the expense of the back of the stadium.

39:30Jesse Cole:Everyone's on the first class experience. They focus on that. Right. And I think to, sure, you have a focus on the front, but again, not at the expense of the back. To go to the back and say, let's make this experience wonderful at this price range, at this distance. How do we do that for you? Is unheard of. Well, thank you. It's rarely heard, I should say. A term that you hear our team often say every day is win the upper deck, win the upper deck. But it starts at the top, Simon. I think this is really important. Like if we just talk about it, every night I'll spend two to three innings in the upper deck.

39:59Jesse Cole:We all pass out roses to little girls. So imagine you're sitting up in section 562 and a three-year-old girl is getting a rose from a player, myself, our cast. And then I do the sing-off there. So instead of just be easy to just have the whole stadium sing and be on the field, I get in the section 527 with them. And it's so amazing because they feel as soon as we walk up there, they're blown away. yeah and but for us again we feel more purpose because it's like these people these fans have waited two three years for tickets it's there that's crazy that's what that's our wait list is that long they wait two three four years they get their chance if they go up there they don't get to feel that interaction you know we say every night is someone's first show yeah every single night and so if it's their first show there how do we make sure it's special and so we always at the end of night what are the stories from the upper deck what do you guys what do you guys do what was special do you know tim harris no he's the former president of the la lakers okay for many many years yeah and tim nobody knows who he is yeah you know he doesn't wear a bright yellow suit uh tim would go to the to the nosebleeds in the arena yeah and he would always look for a father and son right he wants that bond because he knows that somebody worked hard they wanted to take their kid out and for the most part that's what they can afford is the back of the arena and he'd look for that relationship and he'd sit down and he'd see a couple and he would talk to them and you know it's just a dad who wants to take his son and he's like come with me and he would just slip them two tickets and he would put them courtside I love it he would give them an experience that only sort of money and celebrity gets I love it by the way he never sat courtside he could every night if he wants he doesn't he sits up a little bit because he wants other people to have those seats what he's doing and he's very open about it is he there's no financial interest to the team there's no ripple effect whatsoever it's that he wants to use his bully pulpit and his influence to create a magical experience for a father and a son yeah i'm gonna tell you one more disney story i love this man i love this is one this is one you don't know okay um i had the opportunity to give a talk to the imagineers which is the greatest fun right to meet the people who make the rides design the the parades everything physical the Imagineers do, right?

42:12They were asking a lot of questions about the why and I decided to do a little exercise out loud for fun just to let people see how it works. So I picked a random guy in the audience to do this exercise with. I picked some gray hair because I figured he had some tenure. And what I didn't know that I found out later is that his nickname in the company was Ice Chips because he's a cold bastard. Oh, geez. Okay? I didn't know that. So I pick on Ice Chips And I don't think he knew his nickname either. And I started asking him questions, things like, tell me something you worked on that like filled you with joy and love.

42:52That there was a new ride that they had built. And he went to the opening day to see the ride and just check that everything was okay. and he saw there was a guy in a wheelchair with his son waiting in line to get on the ride. And he said, you know, at Disneyland, they obsess about accessibility, not because they're trying to meet some ADA requirements. And people who are in wheelchairs will find it unbelievably easy and seamless to go to Disneyland. And he says, there's a reason for it. He says, everywhere you go in the world, people see a guy in a wheelchair and his son. That's how the world sees that scene.

43:38Only at Disneyland, he said, only at Disneyland, we can only see a father and his son. I mean, I'm crying now. I'm choking up now. The room, there was not a dry eye in the room. And by the way, this was a long, drawn out, beautiful story. I'm telling the quick version. And in an instant, everybody understood why he was so hard to work for, because for him, that was the standard that you want to make this guy feel like a father, not like a guy in a wheelchair. And after that, everybody wanted to work for him because the stakes were high and the standards are high. And I think that the reason I tell you this story is that's what Tim Harris is doing on a very small scale.

44:29That's what you're doing at a very large scale, which is you're not making people feel like a bottomless wallet. We're going to charge you$15 for a hot dog because we can. you know it's one of the things that I love that Arthur Blank does over in his stadium because he owns his own stadium over in Atlanta he's the owner of the Falcons and the soccer team as well which is his rule is if we give you a license to sell your wares your food and whatever in the stadium you have to charge the same price in the stadium that you charge outside the stadium

45:09Jesse Cole:of course makes a lot of sense a hot dog should be a couple bucks not$30 yeah it's amazing And, but this is what you're doing at a massive scale. You know what the pricing for hot dogs and burgers in Savannah is? What is it? It's free. Free? Every ticket in Savannah, because we control the whole experience. Right. Includes all your hot dogs, your burgers, your chicken sandwiches, your soda, your water, your popcorn, your dessert all night long. Wow. I assume you don't have control of the local stadiums when you travel. No. Which sucks. We can control the tickets. Yeah. Most of them. Right. And so then you think about Walt Disney that you wanted to control.

45:44Jesse Cole:So when you look at the future of where we go, how do we control the entire experience? Parking now. People charge more for parking than our tickets to the games. And so when I think about that, that hits me in my core. I mean, I was sending messages today to all of our team about this. How do we stop this? What do we do? How do we take control? Because just like what you shared, it's like it's controlling the entire experience. So when a parent, we could, if we charged what our tickets can go for and what they on the second market to$300. It's another hundred million. It's dramatic. The numbers are staggering.

46:18Jesse Cole:It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We're serving 3.4 million fans this year. I want to continue to serve more fans. How do we do it without raising prices? Our president always like, Jesse, we gotta, you know, but I'm like, find a way. Let's find a way. Let's keep it there and find a way. And what people don't realize is our fans support us with merchandise more than anyone would ever imagine because they want to wear the logos because they feel pride in who they represent. We don't have sponsorships like everyone else. we don't do TV rights like everyone else we keep every game free on YouTube it is an obsession and it's hard and there's other places to make money as you said merchandising if you do a good job people will the fans will pay it by the merchandise the business is extremely healthy yeah but what could it be dramatically more yeah but then every day you'll lose a fan every single day every day I want to create a fan it's a different game you play and it's a long game right because you're not there yet it's not old enough yet but when I was your age my dad took me to bananas games and I'm going to take you to a bananas game.

47:10Jesse Cole:Yes. And it's interesting. And it's boys and girls and it's a family thing. It's not just a sports thing. It's an entertainment thing. It's amazing. The other day, so we have, before our game, we did this first game in 2016, our first year, we have a banana baby. So we have a baby go into a banana costume and lift it up and all the players in the whole stadium is going, nah, Savannah, and it's kind of a ridiculous ritual to start the game. And we've kept it every day. It's been a tradition. One of the first original banana babies now just went to our banana ball youth camp. They're going to all the games, literally a baby.

47:39Jesse Cole:And so for the last 10, 11 years, they've been apart and their family travels around the country to come see shows and to see going from banana baby to now part of it. It's just, it's on the way. And that's what I hope. It's a nostalgia in 30, 40, 50 years. And this is what I appreciate about you as an entrepreneur more than most businesses, which is most businesses, there's a fear that if we don't cash in now, we're going to lose the customer, right? So let's max out the number of amount we can get because you never know, dot, dot, dot. where what you're saying is, what's the lifelong value of a family?

48:11It's generational wealth. It's generational income, rather. You know, subscription is the obsession of every business now. These are basically lifelong subscriptions because people will come as much as they can for the rest of their lives and buy the merchandise and watch the games. And they travel around the country.

48:25Jesse Cole:They have signs with all the places they've gone. It's like, I learned this from the Grateful Dead. The Grateful Dead. I mean, the deadheads, they travel around the country. And they gave up. They let them record, which was crazy. Let them record the music. They brought their own sound to control the experience. They started the first newsletter. The Grateful Dead did things for fans that even now, 30, 40 years after Jerry Garcia is done, they were still selling out everywhere because they built that fandom. Yeah. I don't even think about generational, like the value. I think of it as like, how do you continue to create fans in these moments?

48:52Jesse Cole:And when they think back in 20, 30 years, wow, I remember when I saw it, it was here and now it's here and it just keeps improving and it keeps feeling something. And so when we did pricing, we were made aware that our competition for similar product was charging things like$1 ,100,$1 ,200,$1 ,500? We could. And the pricing we said is we want everybody to have access to our stuff. And so we said, what would a college kid be able to afford even if they went, but they could afford it. I love that. And that was always our standard. It would hurt, but they could still afford a college kid buying it.

49:24Like that was always like our pricing model.

49:26Jesse Cole:Yeah. And if you do it well enough, you'll have enough people that want to be a part of it. See, that's what like, we, a lot of like, you have like a golf tournament, for instance. And they're like, oh, you know, we lost our sponsor. We're not sure if we're going to be able to do it again. Well, then your tournament's not good enough. If people won't pay for it, your tournament is not good enough that you need a sponsor. Oh, we need a sponsor to be able to do this. Create something so good that people want to invest in. We never hear complaints on pricing, on our real pricing. Because it's, again, we keep it at a price that we feel - It's accessible.

49:53Jesse Cole:It's very accessible. Yeah. And so I just, the whole mindset is like, again, we have to figure out ways how to serve our fans in unique ways and more. Tell me one fan story, a specific fan story that when you think about it, it is the most emblematic story of what you're trying to create for Bananas. Like when you think when you're trying to explain to a new cast member, a new team member, what we're trying to do is this. Let me tell you the story of X. This captures it better than any of the story. Oh, geez. I mean, there's a lot of stories, but I go back to the root. So when we started our first seven years, Simon, we called every single fan that buys a ticket and thanked them.

50:30Jesse Cole:we did this up until about 150 ,000 fans. Now we do it sporadically because we're serving 3.4 million, but we call every single fan just to thank them and got a lot of voicemails, but they'd get a voicemail from us. And now we do it during Christmas time. We thank people that buy merchandise and we like our players, our team, our cast. It's part of what we did. So I said first year because we were fighting for fans. Remember, we only sold two tickets at the beginning. I go, guys, anybody who wants to even buy a ticket from us, we are genuinely appreciative because they're giving us a chance. And so we're calling fans and we're into the season.

51:00Jesse Cole:You know, the first show happened, a lot of craziness, but we start selling out games. We're doing well. We're still calling our fans. So even our interns, first day there, we're calling fans to thank them. And an intern was with us, Barry, and he sees like nine tickets. Like that was a lot of tickets back then. Someone bought nine tickets, like a family bought nine tickets. And he called and they didn't answer. And he came in and I was like, hey, just try again later. We want to really make sure that they're appreciative. So he tried the next day. They were coming to a game this coming week. And the dad answered the phone and he goes, I'm so sorry.

51:30Jesse Cole:You know, we have seven kids. We're not gonna be able to go to the game. My wife just tragically passed away. Seven kids, dad. And so I remember Barry, I remember vividly, he goes, Barry goes, I'm so sorry. You know, he's a 23-year-old intern. He goes, I'm so sorry. You know, is there anything we can do? He's like, no, no, but appreciate it. Thanks, quick phone call. Barry walks into my office. He goes, Jesse, this is what happened. He goes, what can we do? One of the best leadership advice I learned from the first owner that I worked for when I was 23 years old. I'd ask him crazy ideas like, hey, what about a midnight madness game?

52:02Jesse Cole:What if we did this? What if this? And he'd always come back to me and say, well, what do you think, Jesse? And he empowered me as a 23 year old. So in that moment, I just turned head on and I said, Barry, what do you think? He goes, Jesse, we got to do something. And I go, all right, well, what can we do? He goes, well, how can we get him out and really do something for the kids? And I go, well, what else do you think? Keep going. He starts writing all these ideas. I go, call him, call him back. And when you give him something, and say, we'd love to take care of your kids and create a special moment.

52:28Jesse Cole:So he called the dad back and the dad answered. And he said, you know what? It would probably be good to get the kids out of the house. So Barry gave him his number. He said, as soon as you show up, just give me a call. Showed up, brought him in. He had the front row of seats and Barry had merchandise and all these things for the kids. But then as soon as they sat down, all the players came and they just spent time with them. This was before the gates opened, just 20, 30 minutes. Players just, these are all college players at this point just spending time and throughout the game the players would come up and sit with them and celebrate with them and they stayed till the end of the game which back when we played traditional baseball didn't happen at all no one stayed till the end of a baseball game they stayed till the end of the game they stayed till the end of the night the players had moments we gave them some things and um the father the dad said to barry that was the last gift my wife gave our kids i could never imagine a better gift and the kids walked out and now they they've become a part of our family when they come to the games and we do a lot more now and a lot more details but when i think back to a 23 year old intern fulfilling a whole night going the extra level and having the seven kids there and seeing that impact and now that they've become lifelong bananas fans banana ball fans i just think about that he put it together the players were involved the cast was involved they stayed till the end we created a moment and it was it It was pretty special.

53:46Jesse Cole:What was your childhood like? I was an only child. My dad was an only child. My dad's dad was an only child. My dad's dad's dad was an only child. So many generations of boy only child. I was a kid trying to make my dad proud. And I'm still that kid trying to make my dad proud. My parents got divorced. How old were you? Eight years old. And yeah, baseball was everything. Me and my dad playing catch and being a part of the game. And so now he travels around the country and is able to see what we do. and so there's a lot of stories of my dad that mean a lot and you know I grew up outside of Fenway and I had a dream to play at Fenway Park play for the Red Sox and I was a shy introverted kid when I grew up crazily now I mean it doesn't yeah it doesn't fit me at all I was shy and introvert I was scared of everything but my dad won an opportunity for me to be honorary bat boy for the Red Sox and I was sitting in the dugout by myself alone and one player came up a sad dad next to me and it was a hall of famer Lee Smith and he spent 20 minutes with me and just talking to me.

54:45Jesse Cole:He could have been warming up doing it. He saw me alone and he spent 20 minutes with me. And at that point I told my dad, I said, dad, I want to play baseball. I want to play for the Red Sox. And I didn't realize that point, but Lee Smith gave me my first fan's first moment as a five-year-old kid. And what's crazy. So after that, I started playing baseball and my dad always tells the story. He said, just, you know, whatever you came up, I used to yell. I was so nervous again. I'd say, Jess, swing hard in case you hit it. And every time I came up to bat, my dad would say swing hard in case you hit it and that's been a mindset stayed with me and three years ago we got a call from the national baseball hall of fame and they said we can't ignore the savannah bananas anymore not exactly how i expected to get that call but they said we want to honor you guys and have an exhibit for you and invite your fans your players everyone and so we show up at the national baseball hall of fame hundreds of people cooperstown cooperstown wow and we show up there and the first person they're greeting me was hall of famer lee smith and he had the picture from when I was five years old there.

55:44Jesse Cole:And the reason why we were in the Hall of Fame is because we were fans first. And I learned that from Lee Smith as a five-year-old. And it's changed everything. So it's full circle from that shy, introverted kid to now realizing it's a much bigger purpose. You know, we've been talking now for, what, the better half of an hour, I guess. And the thing that is consistent in the specific stories you tell, I mean, you tell two stories of loss. Yeah. you tell the story of being a shy introverted kid you tell a story of sitting on a bench by yourself yeah you tell stories of going up into the nosebleeds um you tell stories of players who were rejected and had their dreams dashed and it's it's they're all the same story they're the story of how the world makes us feel they're the story of having something taken away from us yeah the story of not being able to participate because of cost or or ability the stories of being sidelined or put on the side it's and you're telling the story of self-worth and it's not enough simply to say you're worth more it's what inside that counts sure sounds great totally true yeah but the reality is we're social animals and we do need external reinforcements and you can have all the confidence of the world and if the world rejects you it's gonna hurt 100 so it's pollyanna to simply say it's just about looking inside yeah yes do that yeah and the world matters yeah and in all of your stories, it's filling this void to make sure that every single person feels included.

57:39Jesse Cole:Yeah. Can I share one more? Yeah. Because that I think epitomizes what we do is we want everyone to feel a part of something. And especially when maybe at a point in their life, they weren't. And I don't know if there's a root of me or something in there, but that we all feel that way. And so we had a young man our first year who wanted to get a job with us. His name's Reggie. and he called every week. Hey, it's Reggie here. Just want a job. And they go, Reggie, the job fair is in April. He goes, okay, I just really, really want this job. He called every week, spoke to someone. So finally he shows up at the job fair and he's got a big smile and we're like, all right, Reggie, we're going to find something for you.

58:17Jesse Cole:And so, you know, we had him help out and greet fans and, you know, help with trash and do all different things. And so every day he showed up to the ballpark with a big smile, every day. He was more noticeable than me in the yellow text because he was walking around. he'd say it's a great day for a ball game even if it's about to rain like every day reggie said it was a great day for a ball game best spirit and then so after three years he said jess uh just want for the first time uh just want to let you know that my birthday's on a game day just want to let you know and he tells that he proceeds to tell everyone on our staff that his birthdays on a game day so finally his birthday comes we have a big pep rally with all our team getting ready for the night and we bring him over and we start singing happy birthday he goes for me of course Reggie it's for you and so we had we had cake and we have had balloons for him and then I said uh hey Reggie one more thing and I learned this from Steve Jobs always have one more thing I said Reggie come down to the dugout right before the game sure whatever you need I'll be there I'll be there comes down to the dugout before the game this is in Savannah so sold out crowd 4 ,000 fans everyone's standing the band on the dugout the players are lined up you know running to the starting lineup so the tunnel everyone runs through the tunnel batting first for the bananas batting second for the bananas everyone's running through the tunnel going to the line and then we say last but not least fans you know him you love him let's hear it for reggie he throws his arms up like this runs through the tunnel high-fiving everyone and at the end our coaches they are waiting for him with a jersey with his name on it puts the jersey on him and he goes to the line for the national anthem with all the players you can see a tear coming down his face at the end of the night he stayed in the dugout the whole game so he's in the dugout the whole game he's having the time of his life with the guys the end of the night he said it was on the best days of his life so I thought all right this is great the story's over but it wasn't so the next day the players come to me said Jesse uh we loved having Reggie in the dugout he was bringing energy we felt like we were playing for him we were giving everything we have for him so we'd like him to be a coach for us I go a coach Reggie and they said yeah we wanted to be a coach for us and he really wants to make his special drink for us i go what is his special drink he goes he won't tell anybody what's in it i go what is he giving you guys and he goes i gotta i gotta find out so i go over to reggie i go i go what's this special drink he goes you mean reginaid i go whatever whatever he goes i can't tell you what it is i go reggie you're serving our players i need to know what it is he goes promise not to tell anybody oh yes he goes it's uh water ice and Gatorade mix.

1:00:45Jesse Cole:I go, keep going, Reggie. You're good. Keep serving. I hear good to go. So what happens is, so what's crazy is now Reggie, after the games, he's signing more autographs than everyone. He's out there meeting people. He's signing autographs. Now he travels around the country with us as our motivational coach. He gives pep talks to the guys. Every couple weekends, he breaks it down at the end of the night. He goes, stay tapped in, stay locked in, stay accountable. he gives a pep talk and everyone starts chanting and reggie people might say oh you empowered him he empowered us and every day we see reggie and his smile and his joy before every game i'm out there dancing on the field with him and it's a moment and what we've been able to do that happened 10 years ago that now is continuing i feel so much pride in the reggie and the reggies in the world.

1:01:35What was the name of the Red Sox player sat next to you? Lee Smith. I mean, your whole being is Lee Smith. You are become Lee Smith. I mean, you are seeing the lonely kid, or the kid who wants, or the kid who's trying, and you're sitting next to them. I mean, that's basically what Savannah Bananas is, and it's who you are. And that's why I, in our cast, we

1:01:54Jesse Cole:stay till the last fan leaves and signs autographs, even with security kind of pushing us out. We stay till the last fan because we don't want everyone to feel not included. Where's that picture of you and Lee Smith? Oh, I have it. I mean, it's at my parents' house right now. It's obviously social. I have it at the neighborhood. I mean, because that to me is like, that's - It's a little five-year-old kid with a hat pulled up like this. But that's the story, right? Yeah, it's everything. I mean, the five-year-old you is in the nosebleeds. Yeah. And five-year-old you is calling every day. And five-year-old you just lost a parent, you know?

1:02:25And somebody is willing to just take time out of their moment when they don't have to. 100%. And it's one of the most important players on the team. who just comes and sits next to you. It's just, it's the most human, beautiful thing. I mean, it's coincidence that it's baseball

1:02:41Jesse Cole:because you happen to play baseball. It's our platform. It has nothing to do with baseball. Yeah, it's, you mentioned that we had$5 bleacher seats. Me and my dad, we would sit up in the bleachers up at Fenway and that's where we was$5 back then right when we started. I remember those feelings. And I think that everyone wants to feel something like that. I want you to be wildly successful. I mean you are wildly successful I want it to be bigger and I want it to last for a long time because it's so pure and what you're building is so pure and as I said it's so necessary for the times we're living in and I want I want your success you know for better or for worse people will follow you if you're successful not just that you're nice or fun and the fact that the model works I'm hoping it spurs other other properties to be born that are so obsessed with fans like you are and building it for the long term life of the fan not just for the short term gains of the ticket or the upsell.

1:03:34Jesse Cole:But it's tough, Simon. See, the thing is, is because if you don't feel the short term, it's really hard to keep going. So like you say, long-term fans over short-term profits, there were no profits in the beginning. Yeah. Well, I think that's why you don't fear it. Yeah. I mean, every successful entrepreneur I know who's done anything worthwhile either came very close to or completely failed. And losing everything. You know, I was there. I mean, I hit very near a rock bottom. You were there on the air mattress. And I think what ends up happening is when you get to that point, You don't fear it as much.

1:04:03It's not fun. I never want to go back to that place ever again. I hated it. But at the same time, I survived. Yeah. We say this all the time, get to the next at bat. When we fail something, get to the next at bat. I love what your dad said. Just swing, you might hit it. Swing hard in case you hit it. Swing hard in case you hit it. And every day, that's the mindset. I mean, that's the mindset. It's not wait till you get the perfect pitch. No. It's swing hard in case you hit it.

1:04:26Jesse Cole:Well, you think about it. Who had the most hits in Major League Baseball was Pete Rose. he had 2 ,000 more bats than anyone else that ever played the game. You know, it sounds so simple, but people are so afraid to keep coming up to bat and swinging hard because the way failure at this huge pedestal, it's like 2 ,000 more bats than anyone else. And then who struck out the most? He's a Hall of Famer. It's Reggie Jackson. Well, the year Babe Ruth broke the record for home runs, he also broke the record for strikeouts. And I think when Hank Aaron came next, like when Hank Aaron broke the record for home runs, I think he broke the record for strikeouts also.

1:05:01It's crazy. So all these guys who hit home runs, they all strike out more than anybody else. That's why I push our team every night

1:05:07Jesse Cole:to do 10 to 15 to 20 new things because I know we're going to fail at 5, 7, 8, 10 of them, but there's going to be a few that are gold. And that's how you keep, that's what excites me because you can find the gold in all the other ones you try. It's fun. So inspiring. Jesse, thanks so much for coming in. What an absolute joy. Lots of lessons for us too. There's a lot of stuff I filed away where we can plus one ourselves. That's good stuff. Thanks, Simon. So good. A Bit of Optimism is a production of The Optimism Company. Lovingly produced by our team, Lindsay Garbenius, Phoebe Bradford, and Devin Johnson.

1:05:40Subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts. And if you want even more cool stuff, visit simonsynic.com. Thanks for listening. Take care of yourself. Take care of each other.