Your Unhappy Brain Needs Some Assistance with happiness expert Mo Gawdat

32:09Is that true? It was given to me as a gift. And I, it's more sentimental than anything else. But my ring, yeah, I know I wear it. And the people from Aura, it's embarrassing. You know, they reached out and said, oh, we see Simon wears an Aura ring. and we were like, no, don't, no, don't, don't, no. I can't help. Exactly. How do I speak about this? It's dead. I don't even know where the charger is. I think so. I know the guys from Whoop very well. Yeah. And I think there is a use to it, you know, in terms of learning things about yourself that you may not be aware of. They're fun for a week. I think they're really fun for the first week.

32:50Or as long as they're needed. Or as long as they're needed. But then you need to notice. You need to notice the context change. It's like, you know, I used to use something called my fitness pad, obsessively measuring every calorie that I eat, right? After a while, you sort of know that this is a bit too much, this is a bit too little, you know? And after a while, you know, you're much younger than I am, but after a while you go like, and that little belly, it's cute. I'm happy with this, right? And honestly, and you see, once again, when I was in my teens, 20s, I was obsessed with my shape, right?

33:27When I was in my 20s, I started to be more obsessed with the health of my brain and how much I read every day, right? And then when I'm in my 50s, I'm really obsessed about, I'm actually undergoing a season change as we speak, right? So, you know, we said Saturday practice, stress is part of it, but also that reflection of what do I want? What do I want is so interesting. It goes back to the question I was asking before Why does it take loss? Why does it take tragedy? Why does it take sadness? Why does it take age For us to come to these conclusions? Why can't people in their 20s and 30s Live the life?

34:06Ali did Yeah That's the irony of this Oh my god This magical little child He did What did he have From six From His whole life it sounds like His whole short life His whole life He lived the life that you have learned to live in your 50s that took tragedy to get you here.

34:50literally number one. So when people come aboard, they already know the deal. It is every single day we're moving and shaking on a million things, juggling a ton of plates. But what I've learned, what really works for us in terms of people is that entrepreneurial DNA. When they come in and they start making moves, because it's really, it's what they know best, right? When you're an entrepreneur, you just get in, you start problem solving, start figuring it out. Those are the people that thrive in our environment. The ones that don't work out come from the legacy apparel brands when they come in and they're just like, this is chaos, guys.

35:24Like I can't thrive in this. And then other people come in and they don't want anything else but the chaos. They just love it because every day is kind of new. So you're capturing my favorite thing about the entrepreneurial journey, which is what most people don't realize is that being a small business owner and being an entrepreneur are not the same thing. You know, being a small business owner means you just own a small business. Being an entrepreneur means you're a problem solver. And there are entrepreneurs and corporations, right? It's a mindset rather than an ownership, you know. And what people forget is that if you're a creative person, creativity is finding order in chaos.

36:06Tragedy is an interesting one. You have to, you know, you have to make an... Or pain, pain. I call it a nudge. A nudge. Yeah, a nudge is, you know, when you're half American, half British, so you know both, right? In America, if a road is a little sloping upwards, right, and you're walking that road, that basically is what needs what America is so celebratory of grit, right? You need to try harder, okay? You come into the UK and it's all roundabouts, right? And the idea is you get into a roundabout. And sometimes you get in and you want to go out on the third exit, but life closes that exit, right?

36:52And so you keep turning in the roundabout, insisting to hit the third exit, but life is telling you, hey, you know, the force is open. Can you try that? And you keep saying, no, I'm going to, you know, go around and around and around until the third one is open for me because you're so stubbornly preoccupied by your current season, right? Life is telling you change of season, new exit, new life, new exploration, new experiences, right? And it's so interesting that when we continue to resist, life goes like fourth. Do you want to go from the fourth? Like fourth? And you don't. So it nudges the hell out of you.

37:33It gives you, it literally shoulders you out through a loss, through pain, through depression, through burnout, through, right? I love all of this. And you're talking about serendipity. You're talking about open-mindedness. You're talking about what happens when the plan doesn't go according to plan, which is, by the way, always, you know? Exactly. What's the joke? You know, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans. Yeah, exactly. You know, I'm with you, but I'll go back to the original question, which is, why does it take loss, heartache, pain, hurt, age, time to learn these lessons.

38:10And we know that that's not empirical because we knew that Ali didn't have any of those things to come to his magical disposition. What was it about this teenager who had such clarity of life and a calmness that was so attractive to people? It made him so loved and lovable. What, what is it? Why does it take, you see what I'm trying to get to, which is how can young people learn the lessons that we, that like, look, there's a good, you wrote a book about happiness because I have to believe in some part of you, you said, I don't want other people to go through what I've gone through to learn the lessons I've learned.

38:54So I'm going to write them down so you can learn the lessons without. but the question I get most believe it or not is why is your mission 1 billion happy not 7 billion happy or 8 billion happy interesting question right honestly because when you really think about it and simply because I find that happiness is a choice yeah okay you know I can you know I can tell you you can lead the horse to water yeah you can lead the horse to water but they're gonna have to choose it and it's foolhardy to say everybody and it's so arrogant to believe that everyone would make that choice I mean, when I go and speak in France or in Poland, I kid you not.

39:30The first question I get at the end of the session is, well, we get the logic is works, you know, but why? Why happiness? And I'm like, seriously? Seriously, people go like happiness is a sign of weakness. We're supposed to be here, you know, fighting it out. Okay. And I, you know, it's - But you don't question that. You don't argue with them. It's their choice. Yes. If you, if they can't. You shrug your shoulders and say. They can't make the choice. Live your life. Yeah. I, you know, I simply. You're not there to convince anybody. Exactly. I simply say, well, if, you know, I'm, I'm here to teach the technique if you so choose.

40:08Right. But that also applies to management and leadership. Yeah. Okay. It also applies to war and peace. unfortunately there are there is you know for some of us there is one a an arrogance that what you know is is true and two a refusal to uh to to to see the world from any other perspective okay and and you know three interestingly the drive to live based on that lack of awareness Okay. I don't remember who was it, Jack Welch or someone that used to say, you know, you hire people for three things, their passion and their energy and their intentions or something like that. If the third is wrong, the first two will kill you.

40:56Right. You know, basically, if people have the intention to walk into a company, and I hired people like that in my life before, where their only objective is I'm going to play politics and backstab everyone and go up the ladder, right? With energy and passion. And they're very intelligent and energetic and passionate and so on. They'll use their intelligence and their passion and, you know, not benefit anyone at all. Okay. And I think what we humans do in life is we do that to ourselves. We are told at a point in time that a lot of money in a Ferrari is something that you need to have, right?

41:33And some of us, you know, get to question that like Ali, okay, who's very reflective and, you know, who would look at things and go like, I really don't want a Ferrari. And I actually, you know, when Ali graduated, I was a freaking spoiled rich brat. And I love that boy. So I said, Habibi, do you want the car to go to university? And, you know, I have many, pick anyone you want. Or why don't I buy you a Porsche 911? Yeah. Right? And I, you know, I don't regret saying that now because I matured, right? But I love him and I have the money, so why not? Yeah. And he would go like, Papa, but how would my friends feel about that?

42:14Yeah. But I'm, you know, it's not something I'm passionate about. Yeah. But it's not something that represents me. Maybe if you're so generous, maybe I can take one of the four by four so I can put the band gear in it. And it is quite interesting that he had the awareness of who he is. And he had the willingness when I insisted many times for him to drive my fancy cars and take his friends along. And then his friends would go like, oh my God. And he goes like, I just didn't feel any difference. Right? He had the willingness to sit with himself and say, this is not what I want from life. And the season I'm going through now, after 58 years of success, okay, takes you quite a bit of courage to say, yeah, I have done a few things.

43:07And there are a few things I've never experienced. And there are a few things I'd love to enjoy. and there are a few things that I need to learn, right? And unless you sit down and find that, you're going to be the same until you're gone. There's a guest I had on the podcast named Angela Trimber. We haven't aired her episode yet, but one of the things she talks about is absolutely amazing. She had breast cancer. Yeah. And it was treated. Yeah. And everybody who had breast cancer, the other women who had it, who came to her and said, it comes back in two years. And so she suddenly had this horrible fear that it's going to come back in two years.

43:51And she talks about it as this kind of magical gift because, you know, when you're told you've got, you know, three months to live, you go bucket list. You empty the bank account. You travel the world. You go full bucket list, right? If you're told you have five years to live, 10 years to live, you're like, eh. I'll put it off I got I got time let's see yeah you know we'll see but two years was sort of this magical period because it was not enough that she could be complacent but it was enough that there was some urgency but not bucket list urgency the responsible urgency yeah and she's she's she just had this assumption that it's going to come back and she's going to die in two years and she started making choices the way that we she started living her life is I've only got two years to live yeah what do I want to do this or that?

44:39And it gave her a confidence and a direction in life. It never came back, but she continues to live her life with this idea that two years. And I thought that was such an amazing number, you know, because people like live your life like it's your last day. No, don't do that. Don't do that. I call that compartment too, you know, live it like it's your last day and live it like you have 10 years to go. It's interesting. Last year was a very challenging year for me. January, I lost my sister. And then my sister-in-law, but she really is my sister. You know, I met her for the first time when I was a young teen.

45:15And she really, truly was a sister to me. Then, you know, she had a heart attack next to my brother's bed who was suffering with cancer. Two months later, he was cured from cancer, but still left our world. He had an unexpected ulcer. and then two months later I lost my mom which you know you sort of you sort of think that you've now you know become strong enough after losing Ali and then life goes like no hold on I can I'll prove you wrong I can show you I can show you variety right and so I'm sitting with my one of my best friends Alexandra and Alexandra is Serbian so she's very direct yeah okay wonderful young lady who is so honest, so kind, you know, we love each other for, you know, 13 years, friends and so on.

46:10And so I'm sitting there with my philosophical face on saying, you see how vulnerable life is? And she goes like, you're going to be fine. You're not going to die. And I'm like, what? And she goes like, you're doing good in the world. The world benefits from you. You're probably going to live a little longer. It's like, Alex, you don't know that. And as I'm trying to explain, if you don't, you don't with my philosophical face, she says, but I can guarantee you, you have a few, you know, I have very few good years in you. I was like, what? And she said, you know, those road trips that you always talk to me about?

46:42Well, I can tell you, you have seven to nine years where you can take a long one in whichever car you want. And if you want to take it in a sports car, probably three years. So chop, chop. Very, very eye-opening. I'll tell you, I'll tell you that. I mean, truth is, I lived so many lives, Simon. It's just scary when you really think about it. But, you know, I'm Egyptian, born and raised in Egypt, public school, public university in Egypt. You know, I shouldn't have become the chief business officer of Google X. If you take any mathematical probabilities, it's close to impossible. And yet I lived and I lived a rich life and I lived a simple life and I've lived months of my year, years of my life where at the end of the month, we could barely make ends meet.

47:35And it is, I lived. And somehow in all of those lives, if you remember the only thing that we started the conversation with was when life was interestingly engaging. I don't wanna call it challenging. It's interestingly engaging where you sit down and you go like, how can I make this go the furthest for me and those that I love, okay? And I think the challenge is with experience over the years, fewer and fewer and fewer and fewer things stress you. Fewer and fewer and fewer things challenge you, okay? You know - Because you've been, it's familiar. You've learned it, right? Yeah, like, oh, this again, I know this one.

48:23I have seen this one, you know, This one is different, but it's the same fabric. At least I know how to manage my emotions about it and so on and so forth. Yeah. And the trick is when it doesn't become challenging, you start to get into those mind-generated depression causing. Yes. Right? It's not chemical. It's sort of self-imposed. Yeah. It's incessant thinking. It's mind racing. Yeah. Yeah. And your incessant thoughts start to take you into, you know, all those sorts of scenarios that actually have no bound anymore because they're not even bound by the physical rules anymore. Right. And that kind of experience is what I call a problem of privilege.

49:15Right. And when you have problems of privilege, that actually is the sign that tells you, hold on. You know, life is actually really good. I am really blessed. What do I want with my life? What do I want the next five years to look like? Do I want to do more of the same, get more of the same green back that I don't even know, it's just sitting in the bank somewhere, that I will never spend just to tell my friends that I made another deal, okay? Do I want to give it away to people and see the joy? I mean, just for everyone listening to us, your coffee can feed the family in Africa. right? I'm not talking about the very famous and rich who spend, you know, a few hundred thousand on their vacation, right?

50:03That few hundred thousand can save a village in Africa. And yes, I know, actually one of the things I've started to see recently, you know, I know that it's actually very difficult for us to imagine that those in Africa are humans too, or those in the Middle East are humans too, or those in Russia, Ukraine are humans too, right? And because we are so used to our own life getting into our cars in the morning and just going through what we believe is life okay and and one of the things i've started to see that is really thrilling my heart is finally the middle east is starting to show beautiful dances and music instead of angry save us okay so in the you know i don't know if you've seen in the last few days uh the lebanese posts are all about the rockets flying overhead while they're dancing in parties and laughing and saying life is amazing, right?

50:59They've been bombed themselves a few days back and they're like, yeah, some of us are lost, some of us are not. And we will live, right? And I think that idea of, can we look at each other and say, honestly, another Ferrari is not gonna be a big deal. But we're still circling the wagons here, which is that they have been bummed and they have had to face their own mortality for them to say, but let us dance. Let us dance. And so again, I'm going back. And maybe the answer is no, right? Maybe the answer is you can learn some from reading a book. You can learn some from listening to a podcast. Maybe a friend will say something to you that will give you a new perspective.

51:40But maybe you have to be punched in the face. All I can guarantee you is if you don't, if you don't wait until you're punched in the face and you change, you may not be punched in the face. You may not be punched in the face. So it's like insurance. Yeah, so I remember that I wanted to write Soul for Happy, my first book. I wanted to write it in 2011, okay? But I was chief business officer of Google. Too busy. Yeah, and I sit down and I start writing on a flight and then I go, I land on the other side and I have all of those deals and all of those clients and all of those meetings and all, right?

52:12And I delay it and delay it and delay it. And life keeps saying, write it, it's a good book. Write it. It's a good book. Write it. It's a good book. Until I, you know, I don't. I'm circling the roundabout. So it goes like, okay, you know what? Ali's leaving. You know? Now write the book. Now write the freaking book. Yeah. Right? What else do you need? And, you know, I know for a fact in my heart that maybe if I had written it, he wouldn't have had to leave. Okay? Because you wouldn't have had to learn the lesson. Because you wouldn't have. And that's very arrogant, by the way, because it's his life, not mine.

52:43But I can tell you that, again, it's quite complicated. I've had a very enlightening experience when I was 26. I had a near-death experience, right? Went all the way through that same exact description that I've never read before, but went all the way through the tunnel, if you want, the light, okay? Found myself in that peace and tranquility and truly, and, you know, as the kind souls, as they describe in near-death experiences, were walking in my direction. I was like, yeah, right. They brought me back and I was really angry with the doctor. Like I was really angry, like why? This is so lovely over there, right?

53:26And, you know, it seems to me in my unproven philosophy from that experience that we sort of always, all of us get asked if it's time to leave. But you didn't learn your lesson. I, something about me changed, but I didn't learn my lesson, right? Can you share some of the things that you've learned about this happiness practice that people can implement? Look, happiness to me is... I like the, I mean, I think, look, you said it, which is happiness is a choice. So number one is you have to choose that you want to be happy, right? So happiness is a choice and happiness is your default setting is the most important two assumptions if you want to look at them that way.

54:09So understand this, every child is born happy, right? So your default operating system is happy. Of course, some children may be exposed to violence when they're in the womb. Sure, sure. But if you're - All things being equal. Yeah, exactly. If you're just coming out of the box, unboxing a child, the child's default setting is happy, right? Right. It cries when it has a reason to cry. Right. Okay, feed it and it will go back to happy, playing with their toes, looking at the ceiling and that's it, right? you were that child too. And then as you went on through life, do you remember Supertramp? Of course.

54:52Oh, yeah. English. Oh, I know Supertramp. Breakfast in America is one of the great all-time songs. 100%. 100%. And Roger Hutchinson is an amazing artist. So they had the Logical Song. Remember the Logical Song? Yeah, of course. When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful. When I was young, it seemed like life was so wonderful. There you go. Yeah. And so basically when in my, in the depths of my depression years, I'm sitting in a cafe in Seattle. I remember vividly, I was working at Microsoft at the time and, and, you know, must have been on a Walkman or like a Discman or something. And I'm listening.

55:31And then this song comes along and it comes on and it says, when I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful. All the birds on the trees were singing so happily, you know. And then they sent me away to teach me how to be sensible, logical, responsible, practical, cynical, critical, and so on. And that's the story of your life. Basically, life as a child, when you don't overthink things, you're happy. And then you start to become cynical and critical. And you sort of learn to succeed in life. And we humans are very capable. You tell me the target is to succeed. They're like, yeah, absolutely.

56:08And most of us remember that, that you probably into your 20s, you were not that upset with anything. This generation is because of the amount of negativity we pour on them. So if you understand that your default setting is happy, then there is nothing you need to bring from outside you to find happiness. You need to remove shit to be happy. Okay. And that negation strategy is quite an interesting one. So that's good. Yeah. So I'm sitting there. I, you know, I basically take the rest of the day off and I start to look back at the things that, you know, I'm like, yeah, when I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful.

56:51So I keep going back. When I was 18, I was happy. When I was 16, I was happy. When I was four, I was happy. When I was two, I was happy. Right? There were things that upset that happiness, but I went back to happy. But this goes back to, I love this, right? And this is so actionable. I love this, which is it's the reverse of what most people do, which is they make a list of the things that they think will bring them happiness. But what you do is you make the list of the things that are causing you stress and you go about removing them. You remove the unhappiness. It's a removal process, not an adding process.

57:20And there is a reason for that. So good. There is a reason for that, okay? Nothing ever from outside you, this is, you know, rule number two or assumption number two. Nothing from outside you will bring you happiness. Why? because nothing has an inherent value of happiness within it. Right. Right. Take anything in life, you know, rain. Okay. Rain cannot make you happy or unhappy. Right. Right. If it's your ex-girlfriend's wedding, it makes you happy. There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing. Oh, yeah. No, inappropriate intention, desires. Right. So if, you know, if you want a classic car, I love to restore classics and I lose money on them all the time.

58:01You know, if you want a classic car to make money on it, you're going to be unhappy all the time. If you want a classic car because you love the art of restoring it, you'll be happy, right? If you want a classic car because you want to drive all the time without braking, you'll be unhappy, right? And everything else. If you want rain, rain makes you happy. If you don't want rain, rain makes you unhappy. So mathematically, that means the equation is not one parameter. It's not what life gives you. It's what life gives you in comparison to what you want life to give you. And so I wrote that in Solve for Happy, very clear, straightforward.

58:42I said, your happiness is equal to or greater than the difference between the events of your life and your expectations of how life should be. Say that again slowly. Your happiness is equal to or greater than the difference between the events of your life or more accurately, your perception of the events of your life and your hopes and desires and wishes of how life should be. Oh, so good. Right? Now, take that and apply it to every moment in your life you felt unhappy. Yeah. Okay. It wasn't because life was wrong. It was because life was not what you wanted to be. You know what that is? That's a six-year-old behavior.

59:19Okay. It's like, mommy, I want ice cream. Right. It's not the right time for ice cream. Mommy doesn't have the time or you didn't have lunch yet or whatever. Right. But you want ice cream. And for some reason, when you cried enough as a child, when you were miserable enough as a child, ice cream showed up or mommy tapped you on the back and said, come on, baby. Right? And we continue to do this, somehow expecting that life when we are upset is going to go like, yeah, okay, fine. Here's your ice cream. Right? Now, here's the trick. Life doesn't give a shit about you. Okay? Life simply is there to say, look, there will be a series of events.

1:00:03Some of them are easy. Some of them are tough. Some of them are enjoyable. Some of them you learn from. Okay. And it's your choice how to react to every one of them. It's your choice to choose your perception of the event. And it's your choice to set your expectations realistically. So you get stuck in traffic. You can choose a perception that says, I hate this. This is annoying. This is wasting two of my precious moments. Okay. I will be late to my event. Everything is, you know, is miserable. Or you can say, oh my God, I'm in a car. Oh my God, I'm in a city. Oh my God, there are no bombs on top of me.

1:00:44Oh my God, I'm not starving to death. Oh my God, I'm, you know, I am. This is the worst thing that's happening to me. Life is good. A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 100 % if this is the worst that's happening to me. OK. You know, it's a nice little it's a it's a hack because I know that when things go wrong for me, like somebody I'm in a restaurant that bring me the wrong meal. I mean, you know, whatever it is, stupid shit. Right. I know like, you know, and because we're all assholes to some degree, you know, the blood starts to boil over stupid stuff. And I say out loud to the person who's very often apologetic or something.

1:01:19don't worry you know i'm so sorry i'm so sorry and i always say if this is the worst thing that happens to me all week i'm way ahead of the game your hotel room's not ready i mean who gives a right the stuff that drives us nuts saying it out loud to someone it's not really for them it's for you if this is the worst thing that happens to me all week i'm ahead of the game you know and and immediately immediately you relax and by the way and by the way it is it is a it's a it's a it's a very actionable, meaning, you know, if you hear your brain saying, this is shit, okay? Ask your, this is, by the way, your brain's tendency because your brain is a survival machine.

1:01:56We use it to invent iPhones, right? But it is first and foremost a survival machine. It wants to know what's wrong with life so that it can work on it, right? Because what's wrong is what makes you unsafe, right? So when your brain tells you, as per its nature, you know, this, you know, the traffic is shit. Okay. Ask it and say, what's good about the traffic, right? What is good about this? And it will comply. First it will say, yeah, and London taxis are annoying. Now I asked you what is good about this. Yeah. Okay. And if you insist, so my practices, I used to - I can listen to Supertramp. Exactly.

1:02:35A lot of, a lot of, or I can sing it in my head. My practice used to be, you know, for every negative thing that my brain gives me, okay, it is obliged to give me a good one. So you play the game, it's like, okay. 100%. It's a zero sum. If you're giving me negative, I want positive. Play it. 100%. Now, but then I realized that my brain is quite a coward, right? So I started to, for every negative thing that it gives me, asking for nine. Nine good. Yeah, because that's the nature of life. By the way, if you take the mathematics of life, Yeah. How often do we suffer earthquakes as compared to how often do we walk on solid grounds?

1:03:14Right. Okay. How often do you get sick as compared to, you know, unfortunately some of us are maybe chronically sick for a long time. But for the majority of humanity, how long, how often are we sick as compared to how often are we healthy? Right. Right. In reality, it's not even one to nine. It's one to probably 99. Right. Okay. And then that's irrelevant, by the way, which strata of the society you're in. Yeah, that's everyone. Okay, that's everyone. I'll tell you a very interesting thought process to understand. If life is all about a survival approach, and you're able to sit in that car and tell yourself, you know, I'm going to be late for my event, so a future event, and torture yourself with it, or sit in that car and say, I'm stupid to live in this city or I should have left 10 minutes earlier.

1:04:08So a past event to torture yourself with. You know what that means? It means from a survival mechanism point of view, there is no tiger attacking you. Because if there was an actual threat, if there was actually something wrong with this moment, that in itself would take your mind away from all of those stupid thoughts. You would focus on the tiger. So the fact that you're thinking those negative thoughts is in itself evidence that right now is okay. How do little things factor in? Because I know one of the things that I do is I do this consciously, which is I try and pay attention to little things.

1:04:47And it's to the point now where it's almost automatic. And when I say little things, I mean like you have no idea how small, right? Like making breakfast in the morning, right? the sounds of putting the coffee in the coffee pot and filling up the jug and putting it on the coffee machine and the clinks and the clanks and the drags and the swishes I'm really present and attuned that I'm not just going through the motions of making coffee but I'm paying attention as if it's a choreography as if it's a piece of dance you have found the secret to life and these I mean I'm making coffee in the morning something I do every single day and I find joy in the not every day because then it'll become mundane right because i'm trying to avoid the mundane but every now and then i'll pay so much attention and i smile it i smile i found the secret to life do you have the same coffee every day yeah no i never have i never do that you mix it up yeah so every morning before i make coffee i spend 10 minutes trying to feel what i feel today and accordingly which coffee i want i make coffee coffee i don't i have the same coffee every day i have optimism coffee because i love it uh and i made it um but i uh um i make it differently there you go so it'll be the same coffee but sometimes i'll put it in the drip coffee sometimes i'll sort of let it all right sometimes yeah exactly so i i have different same beans a cafe press yeah and i don't know why it tastes slightly different it does but but sometimes it's just the thing that i feel like make doing A hundred percent.

1:06:22Now, so, so, so I, I say you found the secret to life. Why? Because, um, think about it this way, huh? We, we said now is always amazing. The problem with our, most of our unhappiness comes from that incessant thinking. Okay. That idea of living in the past or the future. Now there is an interesting exercise people need to think about. Uh, take any emotion and, and it's a very good exercise to reflect on with yourself. Take any emotion, you feel the emotion right now, but the emotion has a temporal anchor, right? The anchor, regret, for example, is anchored in the past. It's about something that happened in the past, right?

1:07:01Fear or anxiety is about anchored in the future. If you write them all down, you'll find that the majority of the emotions that make you feel negative are anchored in the past and the future. And the majority of the emotions that make you feel positive are in the present, right? Calm is in the present, You know, excitement is in the present and so on and so forth. Right. Now, it's quite interesting because past and future don't exist. Right. Past and future are neural constructs that you create within your own head. You cannot give them life unless you create them inside your own head. Okay. When yesterday happened, you called it today.

1:07:40When tomorrow eventually happens, you're going to call it today. You're always in the present. You're always in now, yeah. Right? Now, here's the trick. The trick is if you get yourself to that presence, to be here and now, here and now, most of the time there's absolutely nothing wrong. Unless you're in a war zone, unless you have a chronic pain, unless you have a, you know, you're going through a tough period of your time physically or whatever. Most of the time there's nothing wrong. And even in those periods, there's moments of rest and respite. 100%. Okay. And I'll come to that in a minute.

1:08:13But think about it this way. Now is always amazing. The idea of bringing yourself to the now is always bringing yourself away from the incessant thinking that's creating madness within your head. It's really important also, which is you're not saying this takes, you know, we're not, you're not saying you need a meditation practice. And you're not even advocating that somebody spend every Saturday until 2 p.m. You know, you're not advocating any of that. You know, I mean, it helps. It's helpful. Meditation is. Like all of these things are helpful. But for anybody who rolls their eyes and be like, oh, I don't have time.

1:08:44You don't. It's okay. It's okay. It's fine. Look, if you don't have time, then you probably need the meditation to learn to do it. Right. But, but, but, but the trick is this, that, and I, you know, because of my work, many of the top meditation teachers and Buddhist monks and so on are my friends. Sure. And they will always tell you meditation is like going to the gym. It's not like carrying something heavy. This is you prepare by going to the gym so that your mind learns how to focus on the present moment. Yeah. But meditation is not the objective in itself. It's the practice. It's the practice, right?

1:09:19But here's the trick. Have you ever felt that, oh shit, it's June, right? Yeah. Right? And then we say, my God, this year is going fast. My God, my God. It's nearly over. Yeah. Have you ever thought why that is? I guess because I'm too busy. Yeah, correct. No, too busy is a very interesting explanation. So I found, and I did that 2018 when I started to see this, and I apply it and I can guarantee you the last seven years of my life have been way longer than the previous 51. Because you're... Because you have to understand that... You're slowing down. You're only aware of the time you live. And if your day is filled with a calendar that's back to back to back to back...

1:10:03And you're always in your head. And the day is over. And you're always in your head. So even if your day is filled with a calendar that's back to back, but this conversation I will remember forever, right? Because I'm fully present in it. I'm listening to you. You're contributing. You're listening to me. You know, the sensations of being a little hot outside, but we're still okay. And if you completely bring yourself to this, time continues to stretch. So every minute that you live fully, okay, is a minute that registers as a moment of life. Every minute you live inside your head is a moment you'll never remember.

1:10:39One of the things that's really helped me is, and it took a while to shed the guilt of of wanting time to myself right because we're in a hyper productive you know you gotta if you're not using your time to make something do something achieve something hit some sort of then you're a loser right and uh and i would sometimes wake up pretty early on a weekend and i would sit in bed till noon and i'm i mean like so i might be woke about eight. So, and I'm talking about like, maybe I read the newspaper, maybe did the crossword puzzle, played some games. Maybe I made a phone call. I would sometimes go downstairs, get a cup of coffee and get back into bed.

1:11:15And when people be like, what'd you do today? Because it was like two o 'clock and I met somebody for, you know, for brunch or something. Um, I'm like, I, and I was, I'd be like, uh, I sat in bed and they're like, what a waste of a day. They would say seriously. I know. And, um, um, and then I got to the point and I would have this guilt and I got to the point where I was like, you know what? It's my life. It's my morning. It's my weekend. I'm allowed to do whatever I want. And if I choose to sit in bed all morning and do something completely that the world would judge as unproductive, so be it.

1:11:49And I got to tell you, I love sitting in bed all morning. I love it. I'll give you two examples. And so what? Or I could go do something, but it's like my activity is to be in bed. What is that song? Today I'm just not doing anything, right? The activity of doing... Nothing. Well, where nothing is the thing. Yeah, so I do 40 days of silence every year. So I just go somewhere and... All in a row? All in a row. Because I could probably do 40 days of silence if you added up my whole life. so you're amortized over the course of my life i've definitely i dare you i dare you if you try it don't do the monk thing don't go to a monastery where they wake you up at 4 a.m and i go to a beautiful nature place you know a converted barn somewhere and you know whatever right and uh i'm not very strict about it i listen to music i don't listen to lyrics right i don't follow up on the and I allow myself paper and pen and I write, okay?

1:12:55Believe it or not, almost every single year I've done the whole 40 days, I wrote at least seven chapters of a book, okay? And it happens in a very unusual way. The first week - But most people can't take 40 days off of life. Everyone can. No, everyone can. Everyone can, but not in the same - They can take a weekend maybe. You know, I was going to say not in the same consecutive way. Okay. So, you know, people almost dare me and say, I'm so busy. Okay. I'm really sorry. I'm so busy. And I go like, but Coldplay is going to be available next week. Do you want tickets? And they'll go like, yeah, totally.

1:13:34No problem whatsoever. Okay. It goes back to intentions. I have no time until I want to make time. Exactly. Okay. So what you're saying is find a reasonable amount of time that is reasonable for whatever the life you're living. So I suggest to people what I call the mini silent retreats, which is my Saturdays. Oh, perfect. You set your alarm until 2 or 3 p.m. and you have a half a day to yourself. Totally legit. Because that scares a lot of people to hear I have to be quiet and not engage with anybody from the time I wake up until 2 p.m. The minute you do that, you engage with who? Your brain.

1:14:07Right. And your brain attacks you. Right. And the whole idea is, so I call it meet Becky. So one of my famous techniques is I call my brain a third party name. Yeah. Right. So Becky was the most annoying girl in school. Right. So literally, you know, those people that walk to you all the time and just say annoying things. Yeah. And then walk away with no solutions. Yeah. Right. That's your brain. It's like, it's just, by the way, you're fat. Why brain? Why did you say this? Right. And the trick here is when you restrict Becky, when you restrict your brain, your brain pushes harder. It's a bit like that friend that takes you at 7 a.m.

1:14:46and goes like, hey, I have this great idea. Call me. And you're asleep at 7, right? Or you're doing something. And then by 9 a.m., they've texted you 60 times. And you go like, hey, I'm walking to a meeting. Can I text you back at 10.30? And they say, yeah, fine. no problem whatsoever. That's your brain. So what I do is I go to my brain and I go like, hey, by the way, part of Saturday, tell me all the shit that's going on. Tell me everything that's going on up there. I just love this practice. I've tried it in a mini way. So I heard Matt Walker, who's the sleep expert. Yeah. And when he talks about, because I struggle with my brain racing.

1:15:26Like I'm totally relaxed, not thinking about anything. The minute I turn out the lights and my head is in the pillow, okay, game on, right? and I can lie awake for hours and just over and over and I know like don't worry you'll deal with this tomorrow you can't fix it now it doesn't matter I can't turn it off then I heard him say and I tried it which is just write it down exactly and and so like I keep a little red flashlight that next to my bed so I don't ruin my night vision and I have a little pad and pen and all of the thoughts whatever they are just write them down and it is incredible how well it works it all just stops yeah it all just stops and and i even like tried to trick myself where i wrote them down that i tried to force myself to think of those same things again and it couldn't the brain couldn't do it yeah the minute they were written down and i realized it's spinning not because i'm actually thinking it's spinning because it wants to me to remember these things but if i write them down it it says i'm good yeah go ahead and go ahead and i go i go even further and so the fact that you're doing this.

1:16:25Yeah. I've done it in a mini practice. You're doing a much larger. It works so well. And it's funny. So, so, so there are two rules to meet Becky. Rule number one is you take every thought that your brain tells you. Okay. You write it down and you dismiss it. Basically you, you know, Hey, um, um, you know, you sit down and you go like, okay, go ahead, tell me. And it will say, yeah, I don't believe that thing that Simon said. And you go like, okay, you don't believe this, that Simon said, what else? And you keep asking the question, what else? With one rule that no idea is repeated twice. Okay, so 25 ideas later, your brain goes, and by the way, I don't agree with what Simon said.

1:17:07Brain, you said that before. Right. And I guarantee you, so I normally do that practice for 20 minutes, again, on a timer. Timers are very useful to tell you, not just when something ends, but by when it will end so that you don't end it before. Oh, you have to fill the time. You have to fill the time. So you can set a timer of like 20, 30 minutes. And you're not getting up. I do that when I write. So when I write, I write in 44 minutes and 11 second sessions. I don't know why, but I love those numbers. And so I set 44 minutes on my timer. And as long as the alarm didn't go off, I will not get up, even if I'm not writing a single line.

1:17:46Right, I understand that. It's a time to tell you to stop. It's also a time to tell you that you have to keep going. It's clever. Keep going, right? It's clever, yeah. So you set your timer to 20 minutes and you get your brain to tell you, hey, I don't like what Simon said. I like what Jackie said. You're fat, you're short, whatever, okay? And it keeps telling you that stuff and you just take it one by one until it starts to repeat itself. So when you call it out on repeating itself, I guarantee you just try it once. Normally around minute 11 or so. you go like so what else and your brain goes like um that's it really and it completely runs out of ideas okay i promise you this is as close to heaven as you'll ever get total silence it's not you're trying to stop your brain through meditation it's got nothing else it said everything and you have that now a rule that it cannot say them again right okay my god it is heaven right i'm doing it And then suddenly, a few minutes later, it starts to tell you nice things.

1:18:49Like, oh, that's really nice. It's run out of crap. It ran out of crap. It basically is struggling for your attention. And you're not doing anything about its thoughts. So it's afraid you're going to die. So it just constantly tries to tell you, give me more of that. Give me more airtime. Give me more attention. I'm telling you, they're going to kill all of us. Oh, fine. They are going to kill all of us. Okay, now the rest of the practice is actually quite interesting. So I normally spend the next 20 minutes looking at what I wrote down and you will laugh out loud. Like literally you look at some of those and go like, that is ridiculous.

1:19:26Like, how can you even think this? And you, you know, you visibly scratch it out. And so you get the dopamine hit of accomplishment by scratching out the negativity as well. And also you remind your brain so that when it brings it up again, you go like, but we scratch that one out. Right. Right. And then the ones that you need to do something about, put an action plan next to it. And somehow that one, yeah, that one practice, if you do that once every Saturday. I love this. It really changes everything. I'm doing it. Yeah, 100%. I'm doing it. But you see, again, it goes back to that whole idea.

1:19:57I'll be in bed all morning. I got plenty of time to do it. But what I was trying to say with my silent retreats is really interesting. You become more productive with silence sometimes. Yeah. You become more productive by doing nothing sometimes. Okay. Well, I also, I learned the value of negative space. And as a creative person, but this is everybody. It's not just creative people. It's everybody, which is, you know, I learned this a million years ago, which is our conscious brains have access to the equivalent of about three feet of information around us. And our subconscious brains have the equivalent, have access to the equivalent of about 11 acres of information around us.

1:20:33So when we engage our rational brains, when we weigh the pros and cons, when we access our expertise and we quote unquote think about a problem, we've got three feet of information. But when you quote unquote let go, your mind wanders. Now you're not quote unquote thinking, but your mind is ruminating. Your subconscious brain is ruminating, which is why we find solutions in the shower, when we go for a run, when we're driving in the car and we go for a walk and when you're not actively thinking. And so the value of the brainstorming session is not to solve the problem, it's to ask the question.

1:21:02But the problem is we've eliminated negative space. so when you're sitting on the subway going to work i'm on the phone correct when i'm sitting on the toilet i'm on the phone correct when i'm walking from here to there i want to see but yes i mean but we're all guilty of it right when one is sitting on the toilet it's not me like i mean i and i catch myself doing it i'm walking from here to there down the street and i'm looking down and it occurred to me just today coming to the studio i like walked a full block without looking up i'm like i could have walked into a freaking pole that i wouldn't have known yeah you know but the point is, is I've, I now work to add negative space.

1:21:38So I'll put in my calendar, do nothing. I used to have that. That was well, very well known about me and Google X because we had all of our offices were glass basically. So people would walk by me and I'm sitting in that glass cube, no phone, nothing on the screen, not talking to anyone. And do nothing doesn't literally mean do nothing. I could go for a walk. I could watch a movie. I can watch TV. The point is it's, it's scheduled quote unquote unproductive time as other people would define productivity yeah this is the most and so and what i'm just allowing my brain to do is wonder 100 w a and w o yeah you know to wonder and to wonder 100 you know yeah and because i as a as a person who who loves ideas i won't have ideas if i'm thinking the whole time and and and exactly so i i as a creative person which is ironic.

1:22:29Okay. As a creative. So I, I finish Google X 2018, Solve for Happy is now an international bestseller. Like by then it was half a million copies or something. Amazing. And, and, and now I'm like running my 1 billion happy mission, literally like an executive, of course. But that's not a good thing, is it? It's not at all. Right. And then someday, sometime in 2019, I text my team and I go like, guys, the season has changed, right? I'm not an executive anymore. I'm now a creative person that wakes up frequently at 3 a.m. Inspired to write something. But this is interesting, right? Which is you're now on the happiness mission, except you're treating it like an executive.

1:23:08And I know people who, you know, they run businesses about, you know, meditation or, and yet they're stressed out. And like the irony of all of these people I keep meeting who have these missions, and yet they are feeling the opposite of what they're espousing. And so how can you run your business more like a philosophical practice and rather than a business? Because you yourself know. It's an interesting thought, which moves the macro target to a micro target. So think about this. I can only do the absolute best that I can do every day. And if I directionally know where I'm heading, by adding those days up, I'll get as far as I can.

1:23:55So can I push you a little bit? Of course. What if there's no target? There is no target. There is an inspiration. Inspiration meaning one billion happy, I'm not gonna, I'm never gonna make a point. And you're not really counting because there's no way to count. There are ways to count because the mission is actually determined very clearly. And we don't, we're not measuring video views where we would have achieved a billion happy a long time ago. We're measuring people that get the message and then take an action. An action that is - But you can't calculate that number. You can estimate, right?

1:24:22You can, they either take an action by going and watching other videos. So I convinced you that you need to be happy so you start to look for other videos about happiness or you take an action by watching the video and forwarding it so you believe others will be happy. Right? Not great, right? I mean, forwarding it, boy, this guy's an idiot. And you calculated that as a win. Maybe. I did not go to that level of integrity and probably quite a few of them. But here's the trick. I don't measure that anymore. Why? Because for a fact, I know that I'm not going to get to a billion happy, but that a billion happy might happen after I die.

1:25:01Yeah. Right. And the trick here is what? If I can generate one more piece of content today or I can, if I can. It's about momentum. It's not about targets. Exactly. It's about constantly moving in the right direction at the best of your capabilities. I mean, there's so many little things that I've been learning. So, you know, I think of business more like exercise than I do like a project. Exactly. You know, which is you trust in the process and you'll get into shape. Just keep doing it and you'll get into shape. Don't worry about it. 100%. 100%. And you may get into shape a week later. And it might be quick.

1:25:32It might be slow. And sometimes you go, and sometimes it goes in and in. But you just keep your head down and just keep doing the thing. You know, and John Burke, who was a guest, who's the CEO of Trek Bicycles, he talks about Nick Saban's. Just play the play to perfection. Just do the thing you've been practicing and do it really well. And the score will take care of itself. And what you need to do is occasionally, frequently, if you can, sit down and review the direction. Am I doing this right? You know, am I putting my effort? That's it, right? So, for example, I... The score to me is something that you look up every now and then, as you said, directionally.

1:26:06It's like, am I heading in the... It's like the periscope. Yeah. You know, because if a submarine's under the ocean and the captain says, go do north, a submarine doesn't go do north. It zigzags. Correct. But every now and then they have to look at some sort of navigational aid or pop up with a periscope and be like, yeah we're basically of course keep going and and by the way ask the captain if north is still where we want to right right and and i think that's the trick like you take my social media presence for example yeah at the beginning i'm a very introverted person i don't want to be seen on social media ignored it completely then someone said you're never going to achieve anything unless you're on social media so i put my head behind it and i get to a few hundred thousand followers and then suddenly i realize i really hate this shit okay and honestly and and i'm you know i'm I'm very open with myself.

1:26:48I hate this shit. Okay. And so if I do this and it drains me, that's not good for the mission. So I realized at the point in time around 2020, I said, look, I'm going to be on Simon's platform. Okay. And interestingly, I have maybe total of 400 ,000 followers on all platforms. Okay. Big number, by the way, I should celebrate, but I get tens of millions of videos, video views on your platform on, you know, Stevens, I know you met Steven, right? You know, on others. And I'm there delivering the message. Sure. Not to my credit, not to my, like, I'm not going to make ad monies on it. I'm never, I was never about ad monies anyway.

1:27:27Sure, sure, sure. Okay. And I think that constant change of direction, telling yourself, I'm putting half a day, you know, of every day behind social media, I'm going to change that. The difference is you've moved from being target driven to mission driven. It's a massive difference. I mean, that's basically what's happened. But shouldn't we all be? I mean, yes. I've kind of made a career out of that. It's so mind boggling that people think that by focusing on making a little more money next month, you're going to be successful. Larry Page used to, you call it the... The founder of Google. Yeah, the toothbrush test.

1:28:06And you would go to Larry and you would go like, look, if you find a problem and solve it really well and keep doing it over and over and over, you're going to make a lot of money. It's not making money that is the target or it's not the promotion that's the target. It's I am doing the absolute best I can and it's eventually going to pay out. Well, I could talk to you forever, but I have to stop, which is a shame. Let's go for lunch or something. 100%. I wish I had got to meet Ali. Oh, thank you. you have by saying that uh send him a happy wish please you would have loved him honestly i mean i'm struck by a 16 year old getting that tattoo i'm struck by a teenager saying i don't want the thing i'm struck by uh i think you knew all the lessons before he left this earth and it he already taught you everything before it sounds like it's quite weird actually so we used to play video games together and ali of course was legendary i'm now quite serious but at the time i was sort of like heroic if you want and and he would teach me he would go like no no no no you know do it you don't you know that trick and so on but then sometimes during a mission ali would go, you know, sometimes you're in a mission and it's so difficult that one of us has to walk in, you know, kill 80 % of the enemies, but get shot.

1:29:47And then the other one, the silly one, would walk in and do the easy job. I think that's exactly what happened. He came, he taught me. And then at a point in time, he had to leave for the mission to actually be finished. and sometimes I think about how, you know, when you asked me at the very beginning, you said this tragic loss and I said I'm not sure I can call it a loss anymore because there was a point in time where I realized that if you knew Ali and, you know, if he was walking into the intensive care room or the operating room or whatever and I had told him, Ali, by the way if you choose to live we will have amazing times together if you choose to die 50 million people will find happiness he would have said kill me right now and with the certainty that both of us are meeting again i have to say this has been a hell of a game one that's worthwhile if you ask me we have a word in english for the person who runs in to take care of 80 % of what that needs to be done, knowing that the person gets the glory on the other end, you know, who finishes the mission.

1:31:03We have a word for the hero. Oh, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. I've so unsung. I hope to get no credit at all, as a matter of fact. One billion happy as the, we're a tiny team for people. The mission statement is very clear. we want to get a million people to champion a billion happy. I want to spend every dollar I've ever earned. And then we want to be completely forgotten. Okay. Which I think is the most difficult part of the strategy, if you ask me. This is why we're trying not to be on our own social media or trying to be everywhere else. And imagine if I finish my life a billionaire. Imagine if Ali, Ali's already finished his life a millionaire, multi-millionaire.

1:31:51Unbelievable. Mo, thanks for coming on. I so appreciate it. Thanks for having me. It's wonderful to meet you finally.

1:32:03A Bit of Optimism is brought to you by The Optimism Company and is lovingly produced by our team, Lindsay Garbenius, David Jha, and Devin Johnson. If I was able to give you any kind of insight or some inspiration or made you smile, please subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts for more. And if you're trying to get answers to a problem at work or want to advance a dream, maybe I can help. Simply go to simonseneck.com Until then, take care of yourself take care of each other.