EdTech Business for Sale – Architect Training Platform US$2.7M

0:00Hey, Michael here, welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous, the internets number one podcast about buying, selling and investing in small businesses. Today, myself, Chelsea Wood from Acquisition Lab and Heather Anderson went through a fascinating deal that is in the ed tech space. And we all love the business, but we hated one thing about it. So stick around to the end of the episode and you'll see what we think. Here it is. We'll set Acquisitions Anonymous. Hello, another episode of Acquisitions Anonymous. We don't have 100 % beard anymore. I'm thumbs downing on just the plus inventory alone. Are you ready to take a leap into business ownership, but you don't know where to start?

0:39Well, look no further than Acquisition Lab, the premier resource for entrepreneurs seeking to buy their dream business. Founded by Harvard MBA and acquisition expert Walker Deibel, the lab is your fast track to success in the search diligence and acquisition process. With hands-on support, world-class resources, and a community of like-minded entrepreneurs, Acquisition Lab gives you the tools and confidence to navigate every step of the journey. And we're proud to call Walker and Chelsea, the Lab's director, longtime friends of the podcast. They're passionate about helping entrepreneurs like you take the next big step.

1:09So don't wait to make your business ownership dream a reality. Visit acquisitionlab.com today to learn more and schedule your free consultation. And when you do, be sure to tell them the Acquisitions Anonymous podcast sent you. How's everybody doing? Wonderful. Pretty good. I'm here. I'm awake. It's early. I always get that out. uh chelsea what do you see in these days what's new in the world of business buying and entrepreneurship by acquisition uh what am i seeing these days a lot of deals still which honestly i kind of thought with the government shutdown things would slow down but they're not um so hopefully things speed up sometime soon with the government shutdown so that all these deals that are getting close can finish yeah and where where do you think we are kind of in the cycle maybe it's a question for both you guys like where are we in the cycle of kind of the the waves of hype around entrepreneurship through acquisition like do you think we're it's still cresting or how do you feel like it's going well if you judge by how many new people are selling the concept of it every day in my news feed um i still think it's it's growing right like it's it's it seems like it's being, I'm not gonna say pitched, but introduced, I guess, is a nicer way to say it to so many new audiences.

2:29Like I just got an email today from healthcare executives, like a conference with healthcare executives wanting to talk about buying businesses. I'm like, what? Yeah, it's reaching all kinds of corners. I would say, yes, I agree. The demand to be a buyer is continuing to grow. I'm going to be really curious to see the Lumos data. It uses the SBA data. They'll come out with it soon because the fiscal year ended September 30th. So I always watch how many SBA funded acquisition transactions there were year over year. And up to now, it had been actually pretty flat. So I want to see if that side is growing.

3:11You know, there's reason to believe it will because the average age of the business owner continues to get pretty up there now. I think it's almost 70 now for businesses under$10 million in revenue. So at some point, you figure more deals have to hit the market just because of the age of the owners. But I'm really curious to see what those numbers look like in the next few weeks they'll come out. Can I show you the greatest advertisement in history for entrepreneurship through acquisition? Yes. I don't know if you guys saw this, but Michael Dell congratulated JP Morgan on their new headquarters in New York and showed this picture.

3:51And I pulled it up on the screen. If you're just listening on audio, it is a picture Michael Dell put out congratulating JP Morgan that shows maybe 250 densely packed sardine style desks for people with four Dell monitors each and a Dell keyboard and a computer. And it looks like absolute hell. Like it looks like the last place in the world I would want to go work if I'm somebody. So anyway, I just thought when I thought of like, oh, you know what? This is a great commercial for owning your own business. I think with the increase of layoffs, we always see a huge uptick in people going, okay, I'm not going through this again.

4:32I'm not going back into the corporate world and then exploring acquisition entrepreneurship. So, yeah, I definitely think it's still, the interest is still growing. And with uncertainty, I think anytime, and with all the uncertainty happening right now, I think it drives people towards wanting to take control. I think that's why we did really well during COVID, right? Yeah. Awesome. Well, can I pitch you guys on this deal I found? See what you think. Okay. So this is an ed tech business. So it's an educational technology business and it's for architects. So it has five, it says here they have 5 ,000 students.

5:09I found it on acquire.com. $227 ,000 trailing 12 months profit and they have 200 courses. So they're asking, hold on to your seats,$2.7 million, which is 11.9 times profit and six times revenue. But it's growing at nearly 30 % year over year. so last 12 months they did 450 000 in revenue and they ran about 50 net profit margins 227 000 last month they did 45 44.5 000 revenue and maintain their profit margins so it's about a 50 net profit margin um so let me tell you about this okay it is a profitable online education platform for architects and design professionals that delivers live and on-demand workshops in ai parametric design, BIM, and 3D printing, bridging the gap between traditional schooling and future ready practice.

6:03With 200 plus expert led courses in a global community, it drives strong engagement and repeat learning. It's been bootstrapped since 2018 and blends B2C subscriptions with B2B institutional deals, producing 450 ,000 trailing 12 months revenue, yada, yada, yada at 28 % growth. It's ideal for a partner ready to scale partnerships, content, and marketing, and a smooth transition is offered. They have over 5 ,000 customers. It's a high margin digital product with a lean team, automated billing and delivery. They have 200 plus courses and high demand skills and a repeatable workshop playbook. They have a niche leadership as opposed to being a generalist kind of platform.

6:38So they just focus entirely on architects and designers, and they have a strong granted community. You could go into growth levers, new markets, conversion wins, sales hire, content SEO, and paid social, which leads me to believe Heather, when I see this, they may not have a sales team selling this thing. No, it doesn't sound like it. That's part of why they have such good margins, though. Yeah. So they sell subscriptions, one-off courses, and B2B licenses, and it's all based in the United States. The reason they want 12 times profit is their ASCII price reflects strong financial performance for approximately$400 ,000 in annual revenue and projected growth to over$5 ,000 per year.

7:20by the way i love how acquire.com makes the sellers justify their asking price when they list a price like kudos kudos to andrew and those guys for making this happen the business operates at a profit margin of over 50 percent has no debt and maintains low overhead um and then i think they just basically repeat this recurring revenue from memberships compromising 25 percent of total revenue this valuation aligns with a multiple of 10 to 12 times ebitda which is typical for profitable, defensible, and strategic digital education platforms and niche verticals. So, okay, I'll pause there. Chelsea, I went through that really quickly.

8:00Do you understand what this business does? Do I understand what this business does? I mean, I do, but I don't know if you do. I'm not in your head. Okay. Will you tell us? What is it in your word? So to me, I don't know if anyone's ever used like Skillsoft in corporate world, right? You would have a subscription and your leaders could go and get skill development. It feels like a platform specific to a subset, like they have a nursing one, for example, of a specific niche. You can go get continued education. I noticed that they did the B2B licensing, which makes total sense. I think it's hilarious every time.

8:35And I was just talking to a member about this with proprietary outreach, where it's always a 10X, always a 10X, always a 10X. Even when they say it's not a 10X, it's a 10X. And so, yeah, I mean, I would love a 10X. Would you like a 10X, Heather? Yes. At 25 % recurring revenue, I think that that's one of their many problems for, you know, asking that price. That's a little low, don't you think? 25%, you know, so the other 75 % of revenue, they've got to go out and find new customers every whatever it is, quarter or whatever they do. So I thought that was a little low. I like the business model, though, for the record.

9:17I think there's a lot of potential. Do I think it's a 10x? No, right? But I like that it's diversified. I like that they're tapping into the B2B licensing. I like the niche, right, niching down. Anytime you can get into continuing education, it's a good model, especially if you can get a B2B approach, especially if there's any kind of licensure, right, where specific training is required. healthcare, this kind of platform for healthcare is a great business. And so I don't mind it, as always. Every business is a good business if it has the right structure. And I don't know that I could justify over 10X.

9:57And what do you think the moat is here? Because couldn't someone else come along and prepare this kind of curriculum? And they've got to have a competitor is my guess. I mean, I think every business can be replicated, right? I just think that the amount of courses they have, right, the performance that they've gotten to shouldn't be downplayed, right? Because, yeah, I mean, anybody can spin it up. I think, does it say anything about the ratings of it? Like, is it highly regarded? Is it leading education platform into space? Any of that? Yeah, that's kind of what I'm looking for. They didn't really say what their differentiator was.

10:42Like if they're perceived as like the leading educator in the space, cool. That could be a higher value lever. Still not a 10x to me, but like that would be a making it a stronger business. um and i guess it depends like when i when i was reading about um like ai or no when it was talking about digital um 3d printing i think it was in there something like that it's like it just depends on how niche we're talking right like i know there was a period wasn't there something there but yeah 3d printing um parametric design like i would assume that there's a certain level of skill required background like it is for architects um and so yeah somebody could come and compete with you but it would take a while to get 200 expert plus expert led courses and and the community for whatever value it is yeah and i don't understand they say they they say they have a strong brand backed by parametric architecture and that's capitalized So I figured that was a proper noun.

11:46So I Googled it and it's like a, it's like a website for different types of tools, parametric design tools. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So, I mean, I think this is a testament to one of the, the, the huge benefits of having a verticalized business is somebody like me wanders in, and I've never looked at architecture as a business before other than written checks for it. and uh so there may be there may be this thing called parametric architecture that i don't know about um though then you click on parametric architecture and there's this thing called paa academy so i have no idea yeah i don't know anything about architecture i guess this this is not good well i think what's interesting i guess in the in the industry architecture i I rarely see architecture deals in my practice because it's so seller dependent, right?

12:45It's one of those kinds of businesses that they trade only once in a while and only like to a junior associate, usually. Someone that's an architect that's already been working in the firm. They have a really tough time with succession. So I wonder if there's a, you know, there may be a play here for an architecture firm that wants to become saleable one day. maybe this would be a good acquisition for some, you know, for a firm like that to kind of bring in some other revenue that's not seller dependent. That's a thought. I see a lot of professional businesses like that. A lot of professional services businesses where there really is no, they get themselves to a place where they would love to sell the business and retire, but they can't.

13:28The population of potential buyers is just so limited. They just can't do it. And architecture is one of those for sure. I see it in engineering services sometimes as well. I mean, I think the other thing about this business we have talked about, it's really small. Like in the grand scheme of things, I mean, a quarter million dollars is a lot of money, you know, in any world. But it's at this size where they're doing$500 ,000 in revenue and 50 % profit and expect you to trade off of that. And then like, how are you expected to hire good staff when it's all U.S. based? like i don't know i don't know how you run this business right it's like at the small scale where you can't pay up for great people and yeah it makes the 12 times profit even crazier well and i think small is okay right if you've got somebody that has connections that can step in and start like they can become the salesperson that hasn't been there and then build out a sales team to get themselves out.

14:28I think it's got potential for the right buyer. But it's still really small. Like I just had a member or no, he wasn't a member. He's somebody that was invited to join the lab and just keep searching on his own. And he was back having conversation about it. And you can go small. Like there's value in going small if that's what you want to do, but not like in his situation, he was just getting desperate, right? Like he wasn't finding anything bigger. And it's like, I don't love that small deals get a bad rap in the space. I do think small deals can be good for some people. Not that you're paying a 10x for it.

15:02But if you're the right person, like let's just say you're an architect with like heavy connections to the professional association or something that does licensing. I don't even know anything about architects. But you could potentially have a good strong connection to have a new channel of revenue. Right. And so you go in and you do that and you build it up a little bit and then you can start to replace yourself. And that's fine if you don't need a massive income. Right. if you're somebody that has low overhead as a human. But why would anyone pay a 10x on something so small? The economics would completely derail any success period.

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16:23So the really great thing too from the investor side is that CapitalPad takes care of all of the details that can get hairy with small business acquisitions. They handle standardized terms, standardized governance, standardized distributions all up front in black and white. Basically, CapitalPad professionalizes investing in small businesses and the returns can be really, really good. I'm so stoked they exist. It's founded by my friend Travis, who is a phenomenal entrepreneur in his own right. So if this sounds like something that's appealing to you, if you want to buy a small business and need capital, or if you want to invest in small businesses, go check out CapitalPad.com and tell them that Acquisitions Anonymous sent you.

17:07They've got 5 ,000 students. I would want to know, like, what's the TAM? You know, how many architects out there have to take this training? So then you kind of know, well, what's the growth potential, at least in terms of number of students? and then I was kind of just doing the math. They said about$450 ,000 of revenue across 5 ,000 students. It's only$90 per student. That's pretty low ticket. So I guess that could be good in the sense that maybe, you know, it's not a big number, so not that hard to get, you know, folks to sign up, I guess, for their training if it's good. But that would be my biggest question.

17:45And they didn't point it out. When you're asking over 10x, you would love to see a little bit more about why there's so much growth potential. That's the only reason you should pay that is if the growth potential is enormous. And what did they say? They were growing at 30%. I think I saw that. Yeah. That's, you know, that's good. I love 30 % growth, but that's not, you know, that's not what you'd want to see for this kind of multiple. Not to be mean, but like that's not that impressive when it's starting so low. When you're starting, you have high growth levels. But according to Google, there are 39 ,000 active license candidates in 2024 with a projected annual openings of 7 ,800 in the next decade.

18:33So that's, they've got 12 % of the architects. 5 ,000 is 12 % of the 39 ,000. But I guess the next question is, if we knew what they were actually training on, do all 39 ,000 need this training? Probably not. You know, if this is very niche-y, only the architects that work in, you know, that niche are going to need it. So, you know, there's growth. It sounds like there's growth potential, but maybe it's just, it's not astronomical. How does a seller like this come to the conclusion that the business is worth 10 to 12x. Having conversations over cocktails with people. That's what I see. They heard somebody else got, you know, had a software platform and some recurring revenue and they just kind of know those couple of elements and they hear that somebody got 10x and they don't understand the other reasons why somebody might've gotten 10x.

19:22That's my opinion. Yeah, it makes me feel kind of sad for folks because I know this list is going to be out there for a long time. It's not going to sell. I don't know. And I swear to God on everything holy that every seller that thinks their business is a 10x. It's even when you have conversations with them for months on end and they say no, at the end of the day, when you finally settle down on the numbers, it's anywhere from what, 9.6 to 10.2 normally. And you're like, I know. I swear we talked about this already. So I think it's something about how our brains anchor our values, like what we put all of our energy into.

19:57And even if we don't have a number in mind, eventually the number we settle on is 10x. It's, I don't know, there's got to be a reason why our brains do it, but it feels like it happens a lot. And it makes business brokers' jobs really difficult. You know, they take these listings when people are anchored to these unreasonable valuations, and they're taking a pretty good chance that they're wasting their own time, you know, the broker themselves. So, yeah, it is it is I think it's one of the bigger problems in the entire small business marketplace is this notion of anchoring to too high a multiple and brokers kind of enabling that.

20:36By taking the listing, I'm not saying no, you know, I'm not I'm not going to waste my time. So I just had a member going through that where the broker knowingly told the member that the seller's expectations were too high. It's like, well, why didn't you do your job? Why is it that a buyer now has to somehow navigate that? And I think that speaks to the quality of business brokers now, right? Like with the increase of interest in ETA, I feel like there has been an even stronger response to like, oh, I'll just broker deals if I can't find one. And I don't know that everyone truly understands what brokering deals means.

21:11It's more than just putting information on a PDF and sending it out to people. But it does a disservice to the sellers, to yourself and to the buyers when there's not realistic expectations set at the beginning. Yeah, 100%. And that's the primary problem is the valuation expectations. And the secondary problem is poor bookkeeping and brokers taking the listings without doing any diligence on whether the numbers they're looking at are any good. And so the buyers are having to spend the money and the time to then educate the sellers. If I were a broker, I would make my clients do a proof of cash before I would take a listing.

21:51It doesn't cost that much money. Yeah, it can be done quickly. It's like$2 ,000 to$4 ,000 max. And you can see, are you looking at a complete bookkeeping disaster, middle of the road, or super clean? And that makes a huge difference in valuation also. I think that's a great advice for anyone that's brokering deals that isn't like trying to do. I'm sure they're not listening to me, but. You should listen to Heather, please. Everyone listen to Heather. It would make life so much simpler for everyone involved and get deals done a lot faster and get, like, I'm going to say feelings not hurt. And I don't mean that.

22:23It's like the frustration of buying a business and that cycle that you get into when you're in a deal and then the numbers are half of what they said. It's an emotional roller coaster for everyone involved, seller, broker, and buyer. It is. Why not make life easier for everybody and just, I don't know, be more efficient? Yeah. What do we think would be a fair price for this business? $227 is TTM. It's got 28 % growth rate. I mean, I'd say four, four and a half max. Yeah, agreed. I would do four. Four and a half if I took not only 12 months. Like if I looked more at a historical performance, maybe.

23:02Because of the growth rate, right? It's not even a sustained performance at that level. So, yeah, I would say four max, four and a half. And then why would you sell it for four? You know, that's the other side of it. also this person probably doesn't sell because that is what it's worth. And if you can make $227 and keep kind of growing it without a lot of work because they've already put the work in, yeah, why would you sell it? Just keep it going. Yeah. And financing this? If it's a 4x or even a 4.5 and you put, you know, 10 % equity, 15 % equity, it would be a fine SBA loan that way. A lot of people come at me with, I heard SBA can't be used for SaaS and, you know, software deals.

23:42And I said, no, that's not true. The problem isn't that. The problem is the multiples, right? And you can pay whatever multiple you want. As long as the leverage multiple is in line with the cash flow, you can use an SBA loan anytime you want. It's just, you know, if you're going to pay these huge multiples, you're going to have to have a lot of equity. But sure, SBA loans work great in these situations if the leverage is about three and a half to 3.75 times cash flow. And recurring revenue is a beautiful thing. We like it. I wanted this one to be good, but standard good business, terrible price.

24:17Yeah. Yeah. I like the business a lot. Obviously, I have an online education company. Yeah, a million percent. All right. So where do you guys stand? Heather, it sounds like you're a two thumbs up. At 4X, I am. Anything higher, probably not. I'm sure we can crowdsource the 2.7 million. Everybody's really excited about ETA. I'm sure we could just pay cash at close for this lovely human. This is no worm farm. This is no worm farm. I do like this, though. I hope the seller is able to normalize their expectations, because I think there's a lot of buyers out there where they would like this kind of business, and some potentially that could add a lot of value to it.

25:02Yeah. Well, and the content's evergreen. A lot of this stuff is not changing over time. you know like basics of drafting and stuff like that that they're going to have in here like just really good and then it's easy to get the content done because you can find experts to build the courses for you pay them like it's a great business it'd be cool to partner with um high schools too like we have a high school here in town that's like a vocational high school um to try to get kids back in the trades and it would be interesting to to do some kind of partnering with with them um like our high school has all kinds of accelerated paths now to get kids you know to graduate sooner to have something specific that they're going into so i think it has potential it just needs to have the right buyer with the right price team size two to 20 i'd be willing to bet the team is two

25:59two to 20 that's funny hilarious okay uh so chelsea sounds like you're two thumbs down based just solely on price i'm two thumbs up for the right price but yeah two thumbs down on this valuation for sure yeah i definitely like this yeah just like a a i'm a bruised thumb up because the price is so crazy my thumb got smashed in a car door sticker shock it's real yeah that is what it is all right everybody thanks for being here uh great job ladies and uh we'll see everybody next week if you enjoyed this episode please share it with a friend uh we're continuing to grow the pod and word of mouth is the best way to do that so talk to you soon thanks

26:52Thank you.