A chat with cult facialist and skincare visionary... Sarah Chapman

0:00Dr Sophie Shotter:This show is sponsored by Primadine, a clean, natural and science-based spermidine supplement that's been a long-time staple in my own longevity stack. Because studies suggest that through autophagy, spermidine increases healthspan and upregulates a range of health markers, from memory and cognitive function to heart health, hormone balance, fertility and even hair growth. Plus, you can be assured that all ingredients undergo rigorous third-party testing. Buy Primadine now at OxfordHealthSpam.com and use the discount code DrSophie, that's D-R-Sophie for 20 % off. This show is sponsored by Microbes, an award-winning liquid probiotic that's now a staple for me, because Microbes, with a Z on the end, is different.

0:47Dr Sophie Shotter:For one thing, they source directly from the soil on their Wiltshire farm, meaning more diversity, with at least 15 strains of good bacteria in every single shot. It's brewed so it can survive in the stomach and a remarkable 92 % of customers say it makes a difference. Plus they offer micro-friendly cleaning, gardening and even microbes for dogs. Buy now at microbes.co.uk and use the discount code SOPHIE20 for 20 % off. Hi, I'm Sophie and this is Age Well with Dr. Sophie Schotter, a space devoted to all things health, wellness and longevity. because for me, aging well is about looking and feeling like the best possible version of ourselves inside as well as out.

1:31Dr Sophie Shotter:So together with my producer Fee, I'll be deep diving into the latest research, sifting fact from fiction. I'll also be talking to all kinds of trusted experts tapping into their knowledge, along with bringing new conversations from a range of interesting women and men, finding out how they age well. So this is my show. Welcome along. And as always, thank you so much for listening.

2:00Dr Sophie Shotter:Sarah, you have a fabulous skincare range in addition to your flagship clinic Skin Assist in Chelsea. Like me, you've seen all the big skincare trends. Some have stuck and some, in my view, quite rightly haven't. So what are the skincare must-haves that you feel have stood the test of time in terms of either ingredients or protocols. For example, at the end of last year, we had a great chat with Professor Mark Birch-Machin, who's a specialist in molecular dermatology, and he mentioned niacinamide. But what's the ingredients that you just feel work and always have? Thank you so much for having me on the podcast.

2:38It's such a pleasure to be here and chat to you both. Well, firstly, I think it's important to say that we're never trend-led. I'm very specific about that. And it's a real core principle for me because I spent sort of 25 years or so treating hands-on in my clinic and I've seen so many fads come and go. So what I'm really interested in is long-term skin health and kind of evidence-based results and respecting the skin. But the ingredients that I would come back to sort of over and over again are the ones that have really been proven with true regenerative power, like retinoids, for example. And they're kind of unrivaled really for skin, aren't they, in terms of the data behind them and really encouraging cell turnover, stimulating collagen, improving skin tone, texture, etc.

3:23I'm also a big believer in antioxidants to really help to fight against oxidative stress and support sort of skin health against the environment. And peptides, which I know people are sort of talking about a lot more now again, but they've obviously been around for a long time. And we've used them since I launched my first products in 2008, but you can see lots of data behind them. And there are lots of different ones that have a slightly different effect on the skin, but you can really see the difference. And I probably say that lastly, in terms of ingredients, I'm a big fan of Amigas. So whether taken internally as fish oils and things or put externally in products onto the skin to really support sort of cell structure and hold moisture in the skin.

4:07So those would be probably the key ingredients that I would look for. And it's also about biological compatibility and the long-term skin integrity so that we're working in sync with the skin's sort of own intelligence rather than choosing something that's the latest buzz, which could come and then could disappear. You know, I think about sort of years ago when microdermabrasion was such a big trend in clinic and everybody was asking for it. And I was quite new with my facials, I think, at that point. but I refused to buy a microdermabrasion machine and do those treatments because I just didn't believe in it and so I had to turn a lot of people away so I think it's about really understanding what's sort of evidence-based and right for you and fits within your philosophy and I'm sure you would kind of feel the same that we see so many things come and go don't we?

4:59Dr Sophie Shotter:Yeah and like you trends I don't think are a good thing in this space. No, and I think you've got to sort of distinguish what's kind of marketing and what's the latest fad as opposed to what's real. And Sarah, hello. First of all, it's a pleasure to chat to you because I've had some of your skincare on my shelf years and years. So it's really lovely to chat to you. But I love your last answer. Are there any specific new or under the radar ingredients or technologies that you're excited about? So we've mentioned peptides and, you know, we had a great chat with Alex Steinhair recently about peptides.

5:33Dr Sophie Shotter:So you've been using them for a long time, as you've said. Are there any, because I still don't really get peptides, are there newer ones or any other new ingredients or tech that you are excited about? Yes, always. I think there's always a lot of innovation happening in skincare, particularly in the last five to 10 years. I launched my product 16 years ago. So, so much has changed in that time. and I think that what I look at a lot now is less ingredients specific but actually delivery systems and technologies so how can we communicate intelligently with the skin and there is so much more advancement in terms of delivery systems and encapsulations how do you get the ingredients into the skin to be more bioavailable to be utilized more and then with that obviously having a much better effect on the skin.

6:22So for me, I think that's probably one of the biggest advancements. And we talk a lot about the difference between kind of traditional formulations. So looking at some of our formulations or lots of others where we're using ingredients in a traditional way, sitting within the emulsion bases and how we're delivering those into the skin versus a traditional encapsulation, which is really protecting those ingredients from breaking down in the formula or too quickly when they hit the skin versus what we've used more recently, which is actually encapsulation delivery systems, where it actually takes the ingredients through the surface of the skin and delivers it to where you need it.

7:03So we've been working quite a lot with pharmaceutical drug delivery systems. So with laboratories, which traditionally are working more with drug as opposed to cosmetic to see how we can get some of the ingredients that we all know really have an effect on the skin, bypassing the skin barrier and actually deeper into the skin. So that sort of technology in skincare is changing so much and I think is fascinating and I think is moving forward. But I'm also quite interested in this whole trend of exosomes, which I think we're still very new to in terms of skincare. We know that they're those kind of nano-sized vesicles and they can act as messengers and they can really work to stimulate collagen repair, the skin, etc.

7:48But we use them a lot in our clinic treatments, sort of post-lasers and some of the more advanced treatments that we do. But we don't use them actually in our skincare formulations yet. But I've been talking a lot to some of the research chemists and they say, what we've got now is good, but there's some really interesting new exosome technology being worked on by the raw material suppliers that we'll start to see within the next year or so. and also exosomes quite interestingly I was at a wellness spa and I had some exosomes injected into my neck because I get a quite a sort of stiff sore neck probably all the facials I've done over the years and also some of it IV with some antioxidants and it really helped so I think there's the medical space of exosomes and I'm interested to see how it really converts into skincare.

8:38Dr Sophie Shotter:Yeah, I agree. It's an interesting emerging area to be watching, isn't it? We've seen you talk in interviews about skin health longevity. What are your thoughts around this push towards understanding the skin microbiome? And has new thinking here changed your mind about your exfoliation approach in any way? It's an important conversation, I think. And when we think about skin health and longevity, and we talk about this a lot, because I think back to lots of my clients who I've treated now for maybe 20 years, if I'd done things to their skin in those first five years that were just giving me quick instant results, then potentially their skin wouldn't be in as good a state as it is now.

9:17So that really looking towards the future and ensuring your skin and looking after skin health and longevity is really key. And the microbiome obviously is that sort of foundation layer of skin health. So it's protective, the microbes are acting on the immune system, inflammation and communicating in the skin. And it's a bit like I was saying earlier, I never really took on the microdermabrasion route because I thought that sort of disrespected the skin and was a bit more of a sort of skin punishment. And so I think the consciousness about skin microbiome means we're thinking a lot more about the barrier repair and how we're sort of really protecting the skin on that sort of basis, whether it's through stressful times or if people have done things to their skin that they've had reactions to or seasonal changes.

10:05And we also look at how we can create emulsions and formulas that are like lamella structures. So they're compatible with the skin so much because they mimic the skin layers and looking at how the gut, the skin, the brain axis, the connection between all of those and the microbiome in the gut, we know there's so much more of a connection within us now. So we're constantly sort of looking at that and looking at how to get the exfoliation that we need on the skin but doing it in a much more controlled intelligent way which is why I've always used more acids or retinoids in a very gentle way to get exfoliation not really scrubs or physical particles because I think they can destroy quite a lot of what's going on in the surface of the skin

10:49Dr Sophie Shotter:completely agree I'm all about the acids but again doesn't necessarily have to be harsh yeah there's some amazing gentler options aren't there yeah you can see a real difference with them it doesn't need to be hugely powerful and inflammatory on the skin you can do little and often and see incredible results the other thing that I really focus on is not sacrificing experience for efficacy whether that's in a facial or whether it's with a formula so texture smell pleasure they all matter as much as the results so we're sort of really committed to this sensorial science if that makes sense. And I think that's very rare to find in effective skincare to find products that really work and have science behind them that are also a joy to use.

11:37I think that's true and that was really my absolute focus at the beginning. I'd worked with lots of kind of you know doctory led brands that were great in performance but just lacked the beauty of some of the late maybe the French aromatherapeutic brands and I sort of wanted to put all that together because I really think that when you use a product you want to get the result for your skin but you also want to enjoy the experience when somebody comes for a treatment sometimes they'll walk in and they'll really want something that's very targeted for skin result but quite often they'll walk in and within five minutes of consultation you realize actually they need nurturing touch smell and they need to walk out feeling better about themselves so it's so in synergy those two things together I don't think they can be separated.

12:22Dr Sophie Shotter:I'm working my way through the range and what I find interesting is that you've really evolved your skincare products beyond the heroes we came to know you for. I'm intrigued by the ingredients so the stem cell elixir has these collagen boosting peptides and growth factors you've even got a retinoic like tripeptide for deeper skin damage as well as visible signs of aging and this is great again because we talk quite a lot about peptides actually in skincare and how underrated they are. I think they're only just emerging as something that many professionals, let alone consumers, are really intrigued by.

13:01Dr Sophie Shotter:I also love that you, for example, get people to freshly mix your stem cell collagen activator with this proprietary delivery system using, again, really sophisticated peptides but also various botanical stem cells. Can you give us a quick overview of the range and hone in on maybe your three bestsellers. Yes, sure. Interesting products you picked there as well. That's because you're interested in the same kind of ingredients as me because we know they work. So, I mean, my brand really, and when we're talking about products, we kind of, if we look at it overall, we sit where kind of advanced science, sensorial luxury, and then clinical expertise unite.

13:40So it's all those elements. And we sort of say we look after you and your skin by focusing on the physiological and psychological aspects of skin health. We mentioned earlier, actually, in terms of peptides, we've been using those since my very first products that I launched in 2008. So it's interesting that they're now becoming quite a buzz. And if I look at the range, we don't focus on sort of skin type, we focus on skin conditions. So you don't sort of find a range for oily skin, a range for dry skin, etc. in the kind of classic skincare way. We're much more about your skin changes. It evolves day to day, month to month, year to year.

14:21And you've got to cherry pick really and sort of customise your routine. But we talk about sticking to cleansing and prepping, serums, elixirs and moisturisers. And And of course, you need SPF as well. So my three top products, interestingly, are three of the very first ones that I launched in 2008. So the product that I'm most known for is something called Overnight Facial, which was one of the first products we launched. And ever since we launched has been the number one hero product. And it's essentially it gets described as eight hours sleep in a bottle. it's where I was using eight or so different products in a treatment to massage I created overnight facial to encompass all of those actives including retinoids peptides vitamins but also lots of omega oils and plant-based oils so that real fusion of the science and the botanical to give you that facial massage in a treatment room and then it's about how can you do that at night so it works for you while you sleep.

15:24And that one really, I think, represents the sensorial science perfectly because it smells and feels amazing, but it also really delivers results on the skin. So overnight facials are number one. Second is Ultimate Cleanse, which is a sort of luxurious balm to oil cleanser. Completely melts makeup, even over your eyes, removes sort of pollution and SPS, but it really starts your cell receptors to start thinking about the kinds of ingredients that are coming in serums. We've got Damaxyl peptide in here. You've got skin brightness. You've got lots of things that start those processes of communication.

16:01And cleansing, we know certainly as facial therapists or skincare experts are so important, cleansing, to get that right. Because if you strip the skin, your skin's constantly trying to correct itself. So ultimate cleanse is probably our number two. And then eye recovery, I would say if I was picking a third product because for me, it's one of the few eye creams that really multitask. When I developed it, again, right at the beginning, there was products that could target dark circles, products that would target lines and ones that would do sort of bags under the eyes. And always looking at people and myself and thinking, well, we've all got a combination of all of it.

16:41We don't generally just have one. So I created eye recovery with six different peptides and also other technologies to really target all of those signs of tiredness or aging or whatever around the eyes. And that has stayed one of our most popular products as well. So Overnight Facial Ultimate Cleanse and Eye Recovery, I would say were the three for me that are those kind of real best sellers and heroes.

17:05Dr Sophie Shotter:And we're going to link into all of this in the show notes because the range is just beautiful. And I was lucky enough to have a facial at the clinic earlier on this year at and I know Sophie you're booked in too I have become obsessed with your rapid radiance cleanser and it's so interesting what you were saying about the senses because what I first noticed during the facial was how utterly magical it smells it's so beautiful and then the therapist explained that it contains a blend of these clays and lactic and salicylic acids and that I could even use it as a mask so I love how that product multitasks but what also struck me about my treatment was how personalised it was.

17:45Dr Sophie Shotter:So for example, the therapist recommended a bit of LED to calm the redness, which really did help. And I think people often underestimate or underrate facials. And I wondered what your views were on that. And yours too, Sophie, in terms of people underrating the power of a really good facial. I think that's really interesting. I mean, facials are becoming more and more popular, I think, to when I started many years ago. I think when I started, people would have a facial often as a treat. Now it's become much more of part of your well-being, looking after your skin, preserving your skin, as we're also becoming more and more conscious about doing that with our bodies and the complete sort of wellness piece.

18:25But facials can really transform two ways, the skin, but also the way that people feel. And I think that connection between your skin and looking good and feeling good and confidence are so key. So again, it talks about the psychological and physiological. I really believe in that when somebody comes for a treatment because they might walk in feeling really depleted or anxious or sad or kind of just disconnected. And an hour or an hour and a half of focused sort of touch and time is something we don't get anywhere else in life really because it's so busy and people can get up and leave the room feeling like a completely different person and of course we're also looking at skin and what we need to do for that in terms of its sort of skin health glow moisture if we're treating pigmentation breakouts any of those sorts of things as well so not just the kind of the well-being and pampering aspect facials of course can vary from simple to very technological as well

19:26Dr Sophie Shotter:yeah I echo everything you've said I love having my face touched to take the time to do that for yourself in amongst a busy life as you said combined with amazing skill and products to really get some lovely results for your skin I actually just today was filming an Instagram reel about the one treatment I'd have in the lead up to big events and it was a facial because a facial can be tailored to absolutely everyone and absolutely every skin and that can't be said of many things. I think that's true and that very bespoke approach is something that we really believe in we sort of train our therapists to think like sort of skin strategists it's not just a protocol and a process it's really very bespoke very targeted whether you're looking at them from a skin perspective or a behavioural perspective.

20:19Dr Sophie Shotter:Yeah, no, my therapist was amazing. And she also very kindly gave me a goodie bag with some samples. And I have to say, I'm in love with the whole range. As it turns out, it's my younger daughter. She has sensitive skin and she's been stealing the comfort cream de-stress. So I need to get that back off her. And I wanted to say that the Vitamin C Power One has given me the most beautiful glow. And also because I'm particularly interested in protecting my barrier function your r &r glow recovery cream has had an almost instant calming effect so i don't have any questions i just wanted to say thank you for reintroducing me to the range in terms of i knew some of the range but the newer stuff i didn't know so i just wanted to say thank you because the facial was great but also the samples were great too well thank you that's really lovely to hear thank you so here's a big one what's your daily routine morning and evening and are there any hero products or also brands outside of your own that you regularly use?

21:15I have quite a simple routine actually but I obviously have the pleasure of having almost my entire range in the bathroom cabinet so I tend to sort of customise and choose depending on how my skin's feeling but my kind of core products that I would put on for skincare in the morning are stem cell collagen an activator. The one you mentioned earlier, actually, Sophie, that has the separate stem cells that you break in. So it's super powerful rejuvenating. I also use another serum called Age Repair Concentrate and then Dynamic Defence Concentrate on top, which is the moisturizer and Skin Insurance Tinted, which is my sort of layer of SPF protection.

21:55And I'll also use eye recovery, which we just talked about around the eyes. So I tend to cocktail serums because depending on how the skin is. I like to sort of focus and target those. And then it's moisture protection and obviously treating the eyes. I don't really use other skincare unless it's something specific or I'm testing something. I might use, say, the XOE range if I've had some laser or something in clinic. And so I'm using the exosomes from XOE as that kind of preparation or post-intensive treatments. And then really I use other body products when I'm at home. So because we don't do a body range, so I use like a lactic acid body lotion from Environ called Dermalac.

22:38And then I'll use a body cream. And honestly, I'm quite fickle with that. It just depends what I've got. At the moment, I've got a real mix because I've got a La Mer body cream, a beautiful big pot of rich cream. And then I've also got some Naturium body lotion, which is really moisturizing. So I tend to be a bit more flexy with body, but on the face, I stick to pretty much my own. And that would be my sort of morning skincare. And then makeup wise, I tend to again, use a variety of brands, but I'm using quite a lot of Westman, Victoria Beckham and Hermes at the moment, which are all really nice, beautiful makeup to use, but I keep that quite light.

23:15And I don't know if it's interesting as well. I have a, my morning routine food wise is I tend to make like a miso broth at the beginning of the week and every morning the first thing I eat is miso soup which is quite unusual but I kind of got that from a spa visit years ago and actually it's really nourishing and it makes you feel really good so that's sort of in the morning I drink a lot of water and then in the evening I've actually I've always got like a two litre water bottle with me which everybody laughs at in the office in the evening I use ultimate cleanse to wash everything off which literally even if I've been doing something where I'm wearing a lot of makeup it will just melt it but your skin still feels hydrated and supple and bright and then again I'll put like stem cell collagen activator and then the overnight facial on so I tend to stick to fairly simple routine but I might switch that out for icon night which is our retinaldehyde cream at certain points so I tend to flex about and then before bed I always take I don't know if you take supplement wise but I always take magnesium before I go to bed and I've recently been using the rescue remedy drops they've got a night one which I bought a little while ago and I definitely think I get a different sort of dreamy sleep when I take those so I kind of tend to do that as my last thing sort of well-being wise

24:36Dr Sophie Shotter:before I go to bed I love all these I'm going to be writing down all these tips especially the Miso in the morning. Thank you so much for that. And this next one is a pretty tabloidy question, so apologies. But your celeb fans range from the Beckhams to Meghan Markle. And we know that you prepared Meghan and her skin before her wedding. Can you let us know what you did or what you focused on? Because of course, she looked beautiful, didn't she? She did look amazing. Yeah. I mean, we don't normally talk about what we specifically do on people, but actually really quite simple because Megan's got a very sort of natural approach to skincare.

25:10So I was with her the night before the wedding, so at the hotel. And a lot of all the products, great massage, which we talked about, that very hands-on facial, LED. But I was able to do layering and layering of serums and leave them overnight. So that's why the skin looks so dewy and plumped up. So all the drainage, all the massage, all of the treatment that we did. But then the fact that all of those products were left on to sleep overnight. So we really have the privilege of treating a lot of very high profile people and most of them it's not really out in the public domain and everybody has different kind of needs.

25:50And almost when we look at our customer base, we have a sort of group of people. They've got to look good for particular events or occasions. We'll be a different treatment to what we would do if we were looking after somebody who didn't need to do that. Because what we need to do is get the skin to the glowiest, dewyest, sort of tightest, plumpest that we can for a photo shoot or for filming or for something like a wedding. so we tend to use hands a lot in those cases and also the technologies of the products with some led which i just feel kicks the skin into that sort of extra level of radiance

26:27Dr Sophie Shotter:and you mentioned makeup a little while ago can you talk us through your desert island makeup i mean you mentioned brands but products what would be your top three makeup products that you rate? So top three things that I would kind of have all the time. I use a very lightweight sort of foundation-y base that's almost like a complete liquid from Chanel, which was part of their Vita Lumiere range, but I think they discontinued it annoyingly. So I'm trialling at the moment another one, which is called Les Beiges, which is very similar. So it's almost like putting something on which still looks like your skin and doesn't look like makeup.

27:08And I think that's really important. I'm not looking to cover anything up. I'm just looking to get that sort of glow. And if I don't have that, I'll just put our tinted skin insurance on. I recently went away actually for a short trip, four days or so, and I took with me one makeup item, which actually ended up being really versatile. And it was a Victoria Beckham stick. I can't remember what it was called but it was a sort of slightly pink peachy blusher type stick and I put it on my lips I put it on my cheeks and I put a wash of it just across the eyelid with no other makeup and I did that sort of every night for going out because we were away in Greece and it was an amazingly versatile product to do without any other makeup with me and then I would probably say I would always have something on my lips my lips would tend to get dry so if I'm away sort of in the sunshine I really like the SPF ultraviolet which is a tinted sort of pink I've got the pink one it's a pink sort of lip gloss with an SPF in it but if I'm choosing sort of makeup it's generally fairly simple and if I'm my general day-to-day would be a very light base a little bit of blusher some lips and some mascara so fairly lightweight.

28:23Dr Sophie Shotter:We also know that when you first opened a clinic quite a few years ago now. Your very first client was international royalty. You have a huge waiting list and yet you still treat most of your original clients from back in the day. How do you manage your time? Oh, time. That's one of those big questions, isn't it? It is a juggle, most definitely. I mean, in those very early days, I started facials at home and then I sort of set up one room, which then became three. And then I moved to my clinic and now sort of running this big clinic and then also the product range. But actually, I still see some of my clients that used to come and see me in my lounge at home from like a one bedroom flat.

29:04And I love seeing those clients because they all become friends. They know me so well. They'll see my team in between if I can't make an appointment with them. But I also feel like these clients are really my community and without them, I wouldn't have my brand. So I think it's really important to keep space in sort of my business life for them and I really do that so finding the balance is challenging I sort of I flick between the product business office into the clinic and but I think you just need to be structured but I'm also quite protective of my own time because I think if you don't manage to do that balance of everything then you can't do any of it very well so I somehow have found a way to just about juggle it all.