My incredible chat with Jo Woodhurst from Ancient and Brave

0:00Jo Woodhurst:This episode is sponsored by Nuance Paris, the French specialists in next generation anti-aging and one of the best kept secrets over in France, now available here in the UK. I've recently discovered its award-winning beauty tech with the Nuance LED masks designed to restart cellular function, perfect for this time of year. And I'm now trialling its stunning skincare range, blending premium natural ingredients with highly concentrated, scientifically proven actives. The result is an award-winning range that's suitable for all skin types, even the most sensitive. head to Nuance spelt n-o-o-a-n-c-e hyphen paris.com and get 15 % off with the code dr sophie this show is sponsored by microbes an award-winning liquid probiotic that's now a staple for me because microbes with a z on the end is different for one thing they source directly from the soil on their wiltshire farm meaning more diversity with at least 15 strains of good bacteria in every single shot.

0:58Jo Woodhurst:It's brewed so it can survive in the stomach and a remarkable 92 % of customers say it makes a difference. Plus they offer micro-friendly cleaning, gardening and even microbes for dogs. Buy now at microbes.co.uk and use the discount code SOPHIE20 for 20 % off. This show is sponsored by Primadine, a clean, natural and science-based spermidine supplement that's been a long-time staple in my own longevity stack. Because studies suggest that through autophagy, spermidine increases healthspan and upregulates a range of health markers, from memory and cognitive function to heart health, hormone balance, fertility, and even hair growth.

1:38Jo Woodhurst:Plus, you can be assured that all ingredients undergo rigorous third-party testing. Buy primidine now at oxfordhealthspan.com and use the discount code DrSophie, that's D-R-Sophie for 20 % off. Hi, I'm Sophie and this is Age Well with Dr. Sophie Schotter, a space devoted to all things health, wellness and longevity. Because for me, ageing well is about looking and feeling like the best possible version of ourselves inside as well as out. So together with my producer Fee, I'll be deep diving into the latest research, sifting fact from fiction. I'll also be talking to all kinds of trusted experts, tapping into their knowledge, along with bringing you conversations from a range of interesting women and men, finding out how they age well.

2:26Jo Woodhurst:So this is my show. Welcome along. And as always, thank you so much for listening.

2:39Jo Woodhurst:joe we love the ancient and brave range and there are several formulations we want to talk about firstly creatine i hosted a media event in november and one of the guests caroline idians aka caroline circuits was extolling the virtues of creatine and it's the most evidence-based supplement probably nowadays but there has been some backlash in some quarters in terms of managing liver and kidney health what's your stance on all of this i'm really glad we're talking about

3:07Dr Sophie Shotter:creatine first of all because i think it's one of those ingredients that is finally getting the spotlight that it deserves and especially for women we worked with caroline circuits as well when we first launched in creatine and we were so happy that so many women of a certain age as well are turning to creatine to support their lifestyles. And as we said, it's one of the most well-researched, effective, safe supplements that we have going. So when I hear about the backlash about kidney and liver health, I think it's a little bit to do with a misunderstanding and context rather than creatine itself being dangerous.

3:46Dr Sophie Shotter:So in terms of liver and kidney worries. I think this comes from looking at lab markers out of context. Creatine increases creatinine in the blood. And creatinine is that marker that we use to screen for kidney issues. So when someone takes creatine, their creatinine levels will or may, I should say, go up slightly. And on paper, without looking at anything else in context, that might look like kidney stress, but actually it's just reflecting that you are taking more creatine. So your body's filtering that through as a waste product, essentially. So I think that's where the kidney bit comes from.

4:25Dr Sophie Shotter:And for the liver context, it's really down to that our liver does make creatine, first of all, uses key amino acids, arginine, glycine, methionine to create creatine in the first place. But I think historically when people have been taking probably too many supplements as well as creatine, and I'm thinking about extreme bodybuilders in this context, there's been some historical case reports about sort of liver health there. And then obviously if somebody has significant liver disease, they're always advised to avoid unnecessary supplements because they don't want to place extra strain on the liver.

5:05Dr Sophie Shotter:So again, I think it's more precautionary rather than an established danger. And I think it's really easy for us to think about creatine as this white powder that we get in supplement stores, but it's actually a compound that our body makes. And it's known to help improve muscle strength, our performance, maintain muscle as we age, which is so important. As you know, losing muscle as we age can be really detrimental to our health and especially for women during perimenopause and postmenopause. and really interesting recently the research is all about brain energetics and cognition I think that can be really interesting area to look into especially the brain under high levels of stress sleep deprivation so really when we think about creatine we're thinking about that cellular energy not just sort of how Jim Rose might have used it once in back in the day.

5:57Jo Woodhurst:Very useful thank you so we think that true collagen is one of Ancient and Brave's best sellers. Dr. Sophie's episode on collagen over two years ago remains her second most listened to ever episode. So it's always good to have another perspective. We thought, can we do some quick fire collagen questions? First of all, what type of collagen should we be using, marine or bovine?

6:22Dr Sophie Shotter:Honestly, and we have done studies on both, I would say choose either. And here's what matters the most when it comes to collagen. So it's got to be high quality, hydrolyzed collagen peptides. They've got to be clinically validated as well, which we've done. Easy to absorb is really important. So a certain Dalton size and crucially, and I think this is really important and often not represented enough, is that you need to be taking it consistently. So for choosing marine or bovine, there's some very slight subtle differences, but the main thing that you need knows that both of them work.

6:58Jo Woodhurst:Okay, thank you. And what should we be looking for on an ingredients list when choosing a collagen supplement?

7:04Dr Sophie Shotter:So for me, it would be 100 % collagen peptides, nothing else. I think honestly, the fillers, the sweetness, the flavours that you're getting in a lot of collagen formulations, they can do more harm than good than when we're looking at the whole point in collagen in the first place. Ideally, you want it backed by clinical studies, ideally responsibly sourced as well so thinking about msc certified when you're looking at marine collagen for example which is the highest level of certification for free swimming wild caught fish finally vegan collagen is this viable yeah it's an interesting one right because plants don't

7:43Jo Woodhurst:make collagen so kind of a trick question but we wondered about your response i just i think the

7:49Dr Sophie Shotter:best way to support the body to produce its own collagen if you are plant-based is using the building blocks it needs so the amino acids that you find in greater quantities within collagen vitamin c and then lots of antioxidants will be really supportive for the whole process it's like the next best thing instead of collagen and i would say that studies on lab-based plant collagen they're just they're still emerging they're interesting so watch this face i'm particularly

8:15Jo Woodhurst:really interested in postbiotics. In fact, I did an episode on it a few months ago. What's exciting you about postbiotics?

8:22Dr Sophie Shotter:Anything we should know? Yeah, I listened to your episode, Sophie, I thought it was brilliant. And you did really give the 101 on postbiotics, which would be really great for anybody to listen to, to really understand. So I think postbiotics are super interesting because as you mentioned in your episode, they're that beneficial compound, so the healthy bacteria in our gut microbiome produce. So things like short chain fatty acids, peptides, lipids, all these signaling molecules. And these have really profound impacts on our gut so they can help to strengthen the gut barrier. Interestingly, and this is where we really play a role here at Ancient and Brave, is the support of immune balance.

9:03Dr Sophie Shotter:So Dr. Jenna Machoki, who pulled this formulation together, She is an immunologist by trade. And so this immunobiotic function of the postbiotic that we use really interested her. And what is really sort of cool about them as well, beyond these amazing benefits, is that they're really stable. So we use one that has been heat killed, which means it maintains all the beneficial sort of components of the postbiotic. it maintains them so it doesn't get destroyed through heat you know if you're not refrigerating them properly it gets through the digestive tract and all the digestive juices so it stays really intact and can withstand all these difficult environments if you like which means that you can use them really simply so we've put ours in a formula which is again a powder to add to your tea or coffee or drinks and again you can take it consistently meaning that you're going to get more benefits from using it consistently and easily over time.

10:06Dr Sophie Shotter:But for true biome, we're looking at the whole environment that is within your gut. So we've taken something that's called the terrain theory, and that's the idea that it's not just the bugs that we need to keep adding into the gut, but the environment itself that we want to help rebuild and nourish and make really resilient. So alongside the postbiotic in there, which is having this really cool communication effect across the gut we've also used things like l-glutamine which is going to further strengthen that gut lining so like the home of your microbiome and then we've included phgg prebiotic fiber and that's what is helping your internal garden to grow so it's like the food for your bugs and really feeding what's already there as well which i think is really cool so yes i think the postbiotics are super interesting and i really definitely think this the way that the research is going to continue to go in the gut health space.

11:03Dr Sophie Shotter:But for me, it's that 360 approach, which I find really sort of supportive for people.

11:08Jo Woodhurst:Yeah, it is really interesting. And it does seem really exciting. It seems that cacao in various formulations is certainly following me all over the internet. I guess it's my algorithm. This seems like maybe a really simple question, but can you offer a little primer on cacao? And is it really high in caffeine or have I got that wrong?

11:27Dr Sophie Shotter:Yeah so it's kind of I'd say moderate in caffeine it does have a little bit of caffeine in it and so that can offer this kind of gentle stimulating effect gently increasing your alertness so if you're very caffeine sensitive it might be something you want to be aware of but for perspective there's around something like six milligrams of caffeine in the scoop of the cow whereas if you're having a cup of coffee it's like 150 milligrams of caffeine so it's a really tiny amount compared to coffee so if you're looking to switch or move away from coffee a little bit it can be a really nice alternative but I'm glad you asked for a primer cacao because it's literally one of my favorite ingredients to use and our cacao collagen that we have at Ancient and Brave is one of the most loved sort of formulas that we have as well so I see cacao as one of those ingredients that is super nourishing it has so many nutrients in there but it's also an opportunity to reconnect with something kind of ancient within ourselves at the same time because it's been used for thousands of years I think when I last checked over the numbers it was about 4 ,000 to 5 ,000 years ago that they've seen cacao being used within the Maya and Aztecs and it wasn't just enjoyed a hot chocolate or a chocolate bar, it was revered as part of their ritual and ways of living.

12:54Dr Sophie Shotter:So it's particularly rich in minerals, which is the first thing. And I think as a society these days, we're quite mineral depleted. So this is a really exciting opportunity to add more minerals into your diet in a really delicious way. It's high in magnesium, so important energy, mood our muscles our nervous system it's high in iron which i think is especially important for women because that can be a nutrient we often see quite depleted or especially fluctuating anyway it's high in zinc and then lots of polyphenols and flavanols as well which play an important role in things like our circulation our cognition our skin health for those antioxidants and then it's got these really cool compounds which give you the feel-good feels so there's like a cocktail of natural compounds, I would say, that support our feel-good pathways in cacao.

13:47Dr Sophie Shotter:So serotonin and its precursor, tryptophan. It's got something called theobramine in, which is this gentle half-opening stimulant as well. So it's really known as this good mood food. It really gently shifts our emotional state in a really beautiful, supportive way.

14:06Jo Woodhurst:And I'm going to give you the same question for electrolytes. What's the case for using these?

14:11Dr Sophie Shotter:So when we talk about electrolytes ancient and brave, often in the modern world, they sound quite modern and technical. And there's lots of different approaches to electrolytes, some of which can be really supported if you are sweating a lot, for example, and you're losing naturally a lot of the electrolyte minerals in your body. We've taken a really gentle approach to electrolytes. And the reason being is for most of human history, we would have naturally consumed lots of different minerals like sodium, potassium, magnesium from mineral rich water sources and from our diets. So drinking from fresh streams or springs, eating food that was grown in soils which haven't yet been depleted, we would have had naturally much higher mineral rich diets.

14:57Dr Sophie Shotter:And hydration isn't just about water, it's about water and the minerals that's how kind of nature intended it to all work together in your system then when we fast forward to modern life we can see that our soils are depleted of minerals i'm not actually having a lot of mineral dense foods anymore because we're having kind of higher levels of processed foods our diets just aren't kind of balanced in the same way that they once were we're often filtering our water as well which definitely isn't a bad thing and i really recommend people to do because I think we can really sort of take a strip a lot of the sort of bad guys out of the water by filtration which can be really helpful but we really need to then put the minerals back in somehow too and then all the like modern day trappings as well so travel poor diet medication busy lifestyles these can all increase our mineral loss and electrolytes are really there to help you hydrate at a cellular level so they help to regulate the fluid balance in your body.

15:56Dr Sophie Shotter:They enable things like nerve signaling. They help transport nutrients in and out of cells. It's really important that we have the minerals and the water there at the same time. So our approach to electrolyte use is a really gentle sort of re-nourishment of minerals in the body, but also you can use them at very specific times as well. So like I said, if you're sweating, think hot yoga, summer, sauna, those kinds of things. Travel's a really big one as well it can be extremely dehydrated if you're doing a lot of air travel even stress can really increase our mineral excretion so kind of gently dehydrating the body in those times of life as well people who fast as well they can find that they're losing minerals or can be quite dehydrated and even in our menstrual cycles a certain times of the month where our fluid balance changes so it can really kind of support in those ways thank you electrolytes is one of those that i actually

16:50Jo Woodhurst:has been on my radar but I haven't sort of explored too much so thank you that's actually super useful and we would also love your views on hydrogen water we're giving you all of the questions here Jo sorry we're testing you because I think there's some growing science with this

17:07Dr Sophie Shotter:I'll be completely transparent I'm not an expert on hydrogen water because this is very kind of new to market but it does look quite interesting and for those who don't know it's basically water that's been infused with a molecular hydrogen. So this tiny kind of neutral molecule that can diffuse rapidly into your cells. And where the interest comes in is that it's, or research at least, is suggesting that this hydrogen water can act as kind of like a selective antioxidant in the body, which is super, super interesting. And so that in turn could maybe support recovery from exercise, longevity, you know, all the things that we think about, you know that an oxidative stress can have an impact on so i think there's some studies that are emerging that do look good quality they are kind of still in the early days now but they're looking at things like reducing markers of inflammation supporting metabolic health cognitive function and where i think that i'd like to understand more of the evidence is if hydrogen water is better than the foundational practices that you can put in place to support your antioxidant activity so i'm thinking a diet really rich in polyphenols and colorful plants is it better than using vitamin c you know good movement sleep breath work reducing auto-processed foods all of these things that really do support our antioxidant activity in the body we don't yet know that it could be a nice addition to all of those things if it's within that kind of your if it's accessible to you and available to you I think but for me as a practitioner in you know as a nutritionist when I was working in clinic the first step was just to get people to drink more water and the majority of people that I worked with that was like a really kind of significant first step for people to do.

19:07Dr Sophie Shotter:I think it's really underestimated how impactful it can be to just increase your hydration in your body. You're drinking more water, not coffee, fizzy drinks, you know, teas, juices, but actually drinking water. And then the second step is to filter your water and remineralize your water. And then the third step would be, you know hydrogen water if you're curious if it fits your budget if it interests you and you want to see how you feel with it I think at that point and you're already doing the foundational stuff of actually drinking more water and filtering it then I think yeah it could be interesting

19:42Jo Woodhurst:yeah I was going to say I don't think I'm actually drinking enough water let alone making my water smarter so that's probably a really good point but yeah thank you I think you're not alone Fiona definitely not magnesium is something we also talk about a lot on the show we previously interviewed Caroline Allen from Bean Minerals and she explained that when it comes to magnesium, bioavailability is key. So how quickly and completely we absorb the minerals we take. Apparently, depending on the form, most mineral supplements have between 15 and 40 % absorption, which is why bean minerals comes from humate, this dark crystalline substance found in deep soil.

20:19Jo Woodhurst:What are your thoughts on all of this and magnesium and minerals in general?

20:23Dr Sophie Shotter:Well, magnesium, if you can have a favorite mineral, would be my favorite because I've definitely seen a supportive, it's been so supportive for so many people who I've worked with personally. And I've definitely seen from my work with Ancient and Brave how many people are coming back to say they're feeling so different from supplementing magnesium and even just focusing on more magnesium rich foods in their diet as well. It can have such a meaningful impact. And the reason being is because we can so easily be depleted of magnesium, our busy lives, our sleepless nights, stress, caffeine, sweating, depleted soils.

20:59Dr Sophie Shotter:Even, you know, if you're eating a really balanced diet, you could struggle to get optimal levels of magnesium just because of the way that our soils are these days. So personally, I think it can be a really supportive part of your toolkit to managing sort of the stresses of modern life and I agree bioavailability is absolutely key when it comes to any supplement I would say where you're going to part with your money you want to make sure that it is able to get to where it needs to go in the body interestingly I think the fact about the 15 to 40 percent absorption for magnesium I think that is more associated with really poor soluble inorganic forms of magnesium so a good example magnesium oxide and you find these in quite low quality supplements often used as fillers basically because you can reach the elemental magnesium level that you want to be able to sell the product but is it actually getting into your body is a different question i think fulvic and humate minerals can be really interesting i love the way that they're kind of nature inspired you know that they can across the cell membranes and enhanced absorption in the ways that they do, I think would really reflect how we as humans would have historically had minerals.

22:13Dr Sophie Shotter:So I think that can be really cool. We've looked at it in a slightly different way. We definitely think that looking at bioavailable forms are really important. So when you look at magnesium in nature, it's never found just on its own as a free mineral. It's always bound to something like an organic acid or an amino acid. so we've used things like glycinate malate taurate citrate which are these amino acids or organic acids that it would be bound to within food so it kind of replicates how we would have had magnesium through food and i think that can be really helpful for people we've put ours one in a capsule form and we also have magnesium within our true nightcap formula as well in a powdered form so the powdered form one is a really delicious tasting lemon ginger alongside some of the nutrients and then our capsule form just means that it can be very standardized you have an exact kind of dose per capsule which is where I think sometimes a little bit why you might not choose sort of for bulvic or humate is that sometimes it can taste quite strong can be quite earthy which for some can be a barrier for others you know they don't don't mind and second is that standardization so making sure that you're getting the same dose each time can be a little bit different but yeah I think equally, I think they're really interesting way to look at minerals.

23:33I love the fact that you have a favourite mineral supplement as well.

23:38Jo Woodhurst:Spoken like somebody who truly does work in nutrition, a friend of mine puts MCT oil in her coffee. Can you do a little MCT explainer as well? Because this is another product that like creatine, like collagen is still getting a lot of traction at the moment?

23:55Dr Sophie Shotter:Yeah, I put MCT oil in my coffee too. Ah, okay, tell us why. Yeah, I do. For me, I use it definitely as like a pre-workout. I found it really supportive in there. But let me explain what teas are and then it might help understand why I add it to my coffee as well. So it stands for medium chain triglycerides and MCTs are these kind of perfectly sized molecules of fat, which the body is able to absorb and utilize super quickly because of the size that they are. So instead of going through kind of the complex digestion system, it goes straight to the liver to be absorbed and utilized. And then they're converted into ketones.

24:39Dr Sophie Shotter:And ketones are this really efficient, clean fuel source that the brain and the body really loves to use so having mct oil in your coffee so alongside the caffeine as well can be quite supportive for those who are looking for that energy you know be able to have a smoother sense of focus and endurance so that's why i really use mine is for that endurance factor using the ketones as this efficient energy source before i have a workout i've really noticed that I can not only sort of really get the most out of my workout, but really enjoy it as well. I find that I don't hit the wall as much as often as I used to.