NASCAR's Kurt Busch Remembers His Brother Kyle

0:00Wherever you are in the world and in your grief, I'm glad you're here. You're not alone. My guest today on the podcast is NASCAR champion and Hall of Famer Kurt Busch. He's grieving the recent death of his younger brother, NASCAR champion Kyle Busch. On May 21st, 2026, Kyle died from severe pneumonia that progressed quickly into sepsis. He was just 41 years old. Kurt was born six years ahead of Kyle. Their dad, Tom, worked as a mechanic and raced locally, passing on his racing knowledge to his sons. Kurt and Kyle were fierce competitors when they were racing against each other, but they also cheered each other on.

0:39Kurt retired from full-time racing with NASCAR in 2023 after suffering a concussion the year before. He's still an active driver, however. Kyle was married to his wife, Samantha, and they have two children, Lennox, who's four now, and Brexton, who's 11 and is already racing. I sat down with Kurt Busch in Washington, D.C. You were six when Kyle was born. Yeah, we're six years apart. Oh, man, I thought I was going to be an only child. Now you're here. Were you always interested in racing? Oh, yeah. Our life, cars. Cars, cars, cars. My grandfather, who I never met on my dad's side, he was a used car salesman.

1:18I didn't know that. That's cool. And then my dad, he was an auto mechanic and a tool salesman. And then he had his street rods, and then we had his race car in the garage. So there's always cars to touch, feel, and work on. In the 80s, all my buddies in Vegas, I grew up in Las Vegas, they all had dirt bikes. I'm like, Dad, Dad, maybe Christmas, can I get a dirt bike? I really wanted a dirt bike too. Right? On Christmas Day, so I go out in the yard, and there's this go-kart. It's all shiny and orange and looks awesome. I'm like, man, I wanted a dirt bike. And he said this to me. And I didn't quite comprehend it at that age.

1:53I was seven or eight. And he said, son, you're going to live a longer life on four tires than you will on two. And that's where it started. How did you actually start racing? My dad let me drive his race car when I turned 16. And then we built the car, and then me and my dad raced together. It was like just father, son. You would race against your dad. Yeah. And I beat him in my second race ever. We started traveling around. And it was like when the bushes showed up, everyone's like, oh, we're running for third now. Right? I mean, when we went to the track, my dad, it was no social hour. It was, we're here for the trophy.

2:28We're not here to make friends. And so that was instilled in me and it got instilled in Kyle as well. Just all those years, it was like he was putting me through this racing education that I didn't even think that it would turn out the way that it did. When was your first professional race? I was 19 years old. The race was live on ESPN. This was the big moment. And I won that race. And then my name just like, you feel this aura of, who's this kid? What's going on? And I'm racing in the Cup Series by 22 years old. Wow. When did you notice Kyle's interest? Or was it just always a given? Everything that I did, he wanted to do just as good at the same time.

3:09Even though he's six years younger. Yeah, I'm 19, and he's watching his older brother on TV winning races, and he's just starting out. Age 12, I think, is when things opened up with the little legend car races. What are legend car races? They're motorcycle-powered cars. It's a great, great spec division car to learn how to race in. I mean, it'll go over 100 miles an hour. Wow. My nephew, Brexton, he's 11. This is Kyle's son. Kyle's son. He's already racing in those legend cars. Wow. Just imagine your older brother's doing all this, and he's 12, and he was just as fast as me when I'd come back and race a few of those legend car races.

3:50At 12, he was just as fast as you in racing legend cars. Yes. How was that possible? He was watching me. He's working on the cars, just doing everything, but he's doing everything just at turbo speed, following me. I got him in the truck series at age 16. He's racing in professional ranks at 16. So that's where we're a little different. For me, I was flunking out of college, got an opportunity to race, and I won in this race at Vegas. And I just got out in victory lane, and I'm like, this is what I got to do. For him, it was just fast track just to get to where I already was, which was in the NASCAR Cup Series.

4:27I just caught a lucky break. For him, I think he was hell-bent on getting there. In 2001, you had won a race, and I think you said something to the effect of, like, you think I'm good. Wait till you see my younger brother. I did what I could everywhere I went to leave a bridge open and to leave a road paved for him to go through. There was times when we would have some, like, heart-to-heart talks. He'd be like, man, my first ever NASCAR race, they booed me because of you. I'm like, well, you'll make your own name, bud. So there's a little bit of that friction of the sibling rivalry when he first got the cup.

5:06He felt like he was in your shadow. Yeah, and I gave him a tainted name because I was having some feuds with some rival drivers. And the fans, they were booing me. It was all right. But his friction with people and his tenacity, mine was aggressive. His was doubly aggressive because he knew he was that good. For people who don't know racing, he was known for his attitude. He was known for saying what was on his mind. And he had no recoil with it. He was fine with it. He didn't care. He didn't care. He took the black hat and rolled with it. There's a video of you two. This was in 2012. I'm just trying to play this.

5:48The engine stayed together as we were overheating all day long. Just all the guys, man. This is a great day for Monster Energy. And this guy right here, I'm so proud of you. You proud of me? You all right as a driver? You scared the hell out of me, but you made it happen. That's all that matters. He told me what to do driving like at lap 40. And I was like, here we go. Here's the owner telling the driver. Get on the wheel. How to drive. So, no, just got to thank Monster and Tag Heuer, our guys at Toyota. This was an unbelievable race. And the fans here are nationwide. It's a great series to run, and I'm happy to run here this year.

6:19Half the season with Kyle.

6:26You can feel all that joy, right? And then I turn to see you, and I'm like, damn it, yeah, he's gone. I keep trying to go back to those memories of good when people ask me about things or want to talk. That's one of our biggest highlights together, just that project of building a team, building it from scratch. That's where it really starts hitting, is that was the start of something very special. In 2015, Kyle narrowly beat you in a 1-2 finish. Oh, Sonoma, yeah. In Sonoma, yeah. Was this after his accident? Yes. He broke his right leg and left foot at Daytona. I mean, the crash looked really bad.

7:08Oh, dude, it was horrendous. I mean, it was like 100 yards that he got to run at a straight-up concrete wall that wasn't protected by a safer barrier. So he gets hurt in February, and then his son is born in May. And he goes to rehab, and he pushes himself, and he's back on the track in June. Hmm. I think it was like his third race back. I was on the gas to catch him and I ran out of laps. I got to his rear bumper on the last lap and I probably could have like thrown it in there just to try to see if I could wreck him. To wreck him? Yeah. Yeah. Like actually wreck him? Yeah. And then I'd get the win.

7:48But it was one of those moments of he went through all this and he's already back to winning. it was like a slingshot moment of just now he's going to the stratosphere on who he wanted to be in this sport and ended up winning the championship that year let's just watch that end yeah so there's kyle and then i'm in the red car chasing him down yeah for this young man and this road course you're pushing hard on the brake pedal you're on the gas road courses are very physical and he and his foot was one of the things he was still in somewhat of a soft cast. Yeah, I guess I wasn't that close. I needed one more lap.

8:33No crutches necessary. Kyle Busch wins at Sonoma. That was the first time you finished 1-2. Can you believe that? Only four times that we finished 1-2. I'm out close to 800 starts. He was going to get to 800. Four times. I would have thought there would have been dozens of opportunities for the one two finishes there was a race where you guys collided yeah that was back in 07 and and i read you stopped talking to each other for like a year afterward he said that i wrecked him i'm like you wrecked me and then you look back at the footage and you can you can take it from both sides i read that it was your grandmother who kind of said all right enough you guys yeah grandma did want a peaceful thanksgiving she's like you guys need to just Bury the hatchet.

9:18She didn't want punching at Thanksgiving. Yeah. We were able to get through Thanksgiving, but it was still a little bit of friction. That's when he was starting to come into his own. He was just dominating. That's when I think we found another chapter in our relationship. He's going to big time. And I was proud of him. I was starting to concede like, all right, he's going to double my stats. He's going to triple my stats. How was that realization for you? That was tough. I had to grow up and go, you know what? You helped him, but you're not as fast as him. Every athlete goes through it. But here we are, just two blue-collar kids out of Vegas.

9:57My mom and dad, Kyle will be in the Hall of Fame one day. They have two Hall of Famers. When all this started out was, it was just a hobby. When you were inducted to the Hall of Fame, which was in January. January of this year. Kyle introduced you. I just want to play what he said. I couldn't be more proud of my brother, Kurt, as we're just two kids from Las Vegas, Nevada, raised in a blue-collar, hardworking family where hard work wasn't optional. We were taught to grind it out and to make it happen. None of this came easy, and in this sport, it shouldn't. And watching Kurt believe in himself long before the results ever showed up has been an incredible experience for me to learn from.

10:42He earned every bit of this, and I'm so proud to call on my brother. It is now my honor to officially induct Kurt Busch into the NASCAR Hall of Fame. Again, it's just so tough to see him and hear his voice.

11:03And he did it so well. I'm just very thankful that we had the ride that we did, you know? for me this year I mean these highs of Hall of Fame induction the lows of my brother and last year in December I lost a good friend Greg Biffle and his family his entire family was killed in a plane crash yeah so in the last year you were inducted to the Hall of Fame yeah your brother died and your best friend just I'm trying to grieve in ways to help people my mom my dad and Samantha. Samantha's his wife. Samantha Bush, yeah. And, you know, our crew guys, Kyle's crew that's around, it's just, I try to do it where I'm not biting off more than I can chew and back off a little bit.

11:55Like I'm doing another extracurricular race in Washington, D.C. and running a different old car of mine. And when you race your old cars, you have all those old memories of what that car drove like and what it felt like. and so it gives me that release but then I'm just trying to help everyone get through this and share stories and it's not going to get any easier but time will help heal and I'm trying to teach my parents you're gonna have to talk about it and people are going to come up and share their stories I mean even the dry cleaning lady in North Carolina where I live been going there for 20 years she's Kirk come here she's I lost my younger sister around your age I had no idea but it's These are those discussions that are part of therapy.

12:41I feel like this little therapy session has helped. I haven't talked about Kyle much. You haven't talked much about him? No. Because it's too painful? I'm 600 texts behind, and I'm a guy that usually goes to bed at zero. Wow. And I try to connect with people that reached out, and you only can do so many in one day. And some of those are from months ago? Yeah. From right after. I have a nice therapist that I worked with towards the twilight of my career. On just things sports-wise. And retirement is approaching. Has therapy helped? It has. I embraced it a few years back. Whereas the younger teenager, 20-year-old, 30-year-old, nah.

13:28But I've had a really good group of people around me since. And it gives me that advice to help others. Did you know that Kyle was sick? I didn't know that Kyle was sick. I had heard that he asked for a shot at the Watkins Glen race, I think like two weeks before. I know through my physicals and his physicals and NASCAR, we both have arthritis and gout and struggle with sinus issues. I struggled quite a bit, needing prednisone, needing a steroid shot. And so I know he probably went through the same thing. So there was that race where he was driving and he said on his radio, I need a shot after.

14:12Yeah, it was most likely a sinus shot of some sort. But I didn't know he was sick. People around him said that he had a little cough here or there. He won a race the Friday before. He was opening a go-kart track somewhere in North Carolina with his son, Braxton, on Tuesday, the day before. there was no signs of what this led to he was in a simulator practicing it's a normal routine now for cup series guys on wednesdays to spend a couple hours in the simulator and what happened so he's just doing his normal session session ended around five and he gets out and goes to the bathroom and starts coughing and his crew chief crew chief is kind of like your wife at the track it's your best friend you take care of each other and you share a lot of secrets with your crew chief and creature said yeah all right and then when he went into the bathroom Kyle was sitting on the floor with his back up against the wall he said you don't look so good Kyle's like no yes I need to call an ambulance Kyle said yes that's something that athletes don't do Nobody shows weakness.

15:27You know, that type of person. And for him to say that, something's wrong. An ambulance gets him, gets him to the hospital. Things are stabilized. Meanwhile, I turned my phone off that evening, and I didn't hear about anything until my dad is calling my girlfriend's phone at 4 a.m. And that's when I learned it. I rushed straight to the hospital. it's just how fast things changed man it's not fair like what i saw happen in a 12-hour period is unfathomable inside of a horror movie it wasn't like we lost time it wasn't like we didn't have good care you know just one in a million and it's like no no we'll be right back with more of kurt bush I'm Dr.

16:20Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. Journalist Robert Kolker is going to join us to talk about his new book. It's called The Vanishing Family. It's a pretty stunning medical mystery centered around a potential tipping point in dementia research and Alzheimer's research. A nice thing to hit on would be the difference between Alzheimer's and dementia-related memory issues and typical age-related changes. First of all, it can be challenging. In some ways, it's sometimes even more challenging in someone that you interact with on a regular basis. For people who you don't see regularly, sometimes you can see the significant change in them if you haven't seen them for a month or a couple months, whatever it may be.

16:57But when it's sort of incremental in your own family, it can be hard. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts. Were you able to be with your brother at the end? I was. Samantha, my mom. My dad didn't want to go in. My dad wanted to remember him in his eyes the way he wanted to see him. I respected that. I understand that. When other team owners started to come to the hospital, NASCAR executives came. And then a couple of his best friends came. That's when it starts getting real. It was tough. Did he know how bad this was? None of us knew. It happened that fast. You didn't know that that was the end?

17:58The sequence of events is just, it's horrific.

18:07He didn't deserve this. I'm here to help with where I can. Samantha's got the toughest job right now. Were you able to talk with him at all?

18:25I know he could hear me.

18:29I read a number of people in the NASCAR and the driving community said it made them kind of rethink their own attention to their own health. Just taking it more seriously. It's a big eye-opener. All of us feel the pressure of making sure that we stay in the seat or stay in the car to race. Because if we're out, a young driver might jump in and win the race or do better. We're all independent contractors in NASCAR. If you're not in the race, you can't win it. I mean, early on, my second year, I hadn't won yet. And I felt like I was just going to get cut. And I'd be out. It's pretty tough in certain situations.

19:05Kyle was already thinking about his own retirement. and turning to coaching his son. Yeah, we talked about it quite a bit. He was on a nice five-year plan because Braxton is five years away from being 16 and racing professionally in the truck series. That was the goal. And Kyle wanted to drop back off of cup and run trucks full-time. And actually, he wanted NASCAR to change the rules so that as a cup driver, he could still be eligible for a truck series championship. If he could have won the truck championship, Yep, this one gets tough. He would have been the only driver in all of NASCAR's history to be a three-time champion in a top three series.

19:47And then he'd have the truck ready for Brex. What's it like to see Brexton racing? It's so cool. His racer craft and how he talks, it's like Kyle. I see a lot of him in him. You do? Yeah. He's going to be a ball of fire. He's on the fast track, more so than even Kyle. Really? Yes, and he loves it. He's into the data. He pulls up his little tablet, and he's like, Uncle Kurt, check this out. I went above 100 miles per hour my first time. And he's just seniors going through, and he pulls up the setup. I told him, like, hey, what happened with that purple car? I'm like, isn't that the kid that's 15?

20:23He goes, yeah, but I'm better than him. Something Kyle would say. You know, Samantha and Kyle have raised a great young man, and with their daughter Lennox as well. Kyle and I talked years ago that when Braxton was going to be getting a little older and racing more on the asphalt tracks, I said I'd be more involved. And this was his first year of racing on asphalt. And now this happens. It's not what I had planned or he had planned, but I'll do my best where I can as Uncle Kurt. You want to be involved? Oh, absolutely. NASCAR did a tribute of the Coca-Cola 600 and I just want to play some of that video

21:16this is the missing man formation I've never seen that before

21:23literally I've never seen that before it's just like wow our family grew by millions right there in that moment it felt like with all the people watching. Yeah, and that formation, I had never seen that before, gone anywhere. And then with the eight that they sprayed into the infield grass, you know, with my brother's date on there. I didn't want to go. You didn't want to go? I didn't want to go to the tracks too soon. It didn't feel real. I'm glad we went. I needed to be there for my mom and my dad. Samantha, Brex and Lennox, I was thankful for that moment with NASCAR. As soon as I turned around after this, all the drivers wanted to come up to me.

22:10I went, of course, thank you. This was rough. It's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot to deal with. Yeah. I didn't even realize, you know, I didn't want to look back. I could feel the presence of everyone behind us. I just didn't want to look back. It was still just in shock. It was still like we're all in disbelief. And I think we're all finding the best way we can to battle through this. Does it feel real now? Yes. Yeah. And that's where I've had some conversations and went and grieved and went and raced some races. And then seeing Braxton race, you know, that was tough. What helps? Different conversations help, you know, therapy and going to the track and people give you a hug.

22:54and some people want to talk and some people just give you that soulful feeling of condolences without saying anything. It helps to go to the track, though? It's not too painful? It helps, yeah. Can't go too much. Too much exposure to it is like just being out in the sun and you get sunburned type feel. I had that happen a couple times. Now I've learned, okay, it's enough. I need to go home. It's just so vivid at the track because everybody has a number eight or an 18 or I was at a Cubs game recently and this whole guy has an M &M's jacket. My brother's racing sponsored jacket and I had to go up to him.

23:32And he goes, your brother personally gave me this jacket. No kidding. Seven years ago or so. And he pulls it up on his phone. This nice little guy, like 70 years old. I wear this everywhere. I'm out on a tour on the mall here in Washington, D.C. And this young girl comes up and she says, sorry about your brother. My father was one of his first jack men on his professional race team. So there's going to be those signs. And it's a matter of just taking it in and just take a deep breath and be okay. The first time you got in the car after he died, a race car, was that difficult? I actually got in the car like a half hour before our practice session just to sit there and have a little chat.

24:18Chat with? with myself and with a prayer with him. Do you talk to him?

24:27It's when I'm getting in the car. I just check in.

24:35Because racing, what I'm doing right now, in these vintage races and these extracurricular-style races, I'd love for him to be out there with me. Once Brexton gets to be that age, I would have loved for all three of us to go out there and race. I wonder if getting into a car will be the place where you feel your brother. It's primarily been around the car. It has been. Yeah, and it's almost like if I make a mistake on the track, I'm going to get scolded. Because he would have seen it, you know. Stepping into a vehicle, getting on a racetrack, you can feel him there. Three or four times so far this year, yeah.

25:11It's just because it's so strong right now. It's so new and still so much of a feel of disbelief. It's only been a few months. What do you hope the grief becomes in your mind?

25:27I already know that he's the winningest driver in NASCAR. Everyone knows it. And the legacy that he's left behind with the amount of drivers that he has coached and the amount of crew members that have worked for him or raced with him. When people tell me stories on how he affected their life in a positive way, it helps me move forward. You like that. It helps. Yeah. Yeah. But only so much ahead of time. It feels like dinners have been more intimate with my parents. Advice that they had heard from a racing team owner that lost their son, that holidays are tougher, birthdays are tougher. August 18th it's now Kyle Busch Day 8-18 yeah it's just gonna hit harder for a while and different is there anything else you want people to know?

26:24I just love the phases that we went through as brothers you know we're six years apart and when you're teenagers six years is an eternity of being apart and then you get to your 40s six years is like six days you're the same right i loved how we went through these phases even on the racetrack of the sibling rivalry was real then helping each other with sponsorships and you know the key things to make us stronger that we didn't tell other racers you know about this track or this moment or this and then racing on track it was like we were the same mindset and the same thought process on where to make passes and how we drafted with each other i just loved our synergy on the track and then the evolution that we went through and towards the end it would be like we'd both take the driver's suit off our back and lay it down for the other other brother And the biggest thing that I miss is just that banter and the unspoken words when we would race each other, the back and forth.

27:40I mean, my last win at Kansas Speedway, 2022, my brother's second. And there was one big slide that my brother missed on taking the lead. And I could see it. That was his chance, and now his tires are toast. And when I caught him in the next set of corners, it was almost like he knew he was done. Go ahead, brother. You get him. I couldn't get him. He yielded. You won't really see it if you pull up tape. Fans can't find it. Team owners and the data, maybe. But you knew it. He yielded. And I was able to win that race. And I called him afterwards. I said, thank you. He goes, I know. I know. Those are the things I miss the most.

28:26And that's my last NASCAR win. He helped me win it. I didn't know this until you were just talking. It's like a secret language or a feeling that only you and Kyle could understand between you on the racetrack. It wasn't spoken, but through the brotherhood and the feel, you just knew you were communicating with each other. It's a form of communication without words. And that's a bond that you and he share that no one else does. now thank you you picked up on it it it's hard to describe and it's beautiful it is it's poetic in a way to feel that and not even see like him but just know it's like a mind meld that you can't share with anybody else it is an unspoken language we're pretty tight on track and i could feel it what a beautiful thing to have had it was pretty special but thank you I haven't really talked about him much and I appreciate this it's therapeutic in ways it's really lovely to learn about him and about your relationship winning us brothers in NASCAR history took two of us to figure it out thank you if you have thoughts about my conversation with Kurt Busch that you'd like to share you can leave us comments at our grief community page at cnn.com slash allthereis.

29:55And if there's something you've learned in your grief you think could be helpful for others and or just want to talk about your grief experiences with us, leave us a voicemail at 404-827-1805. On Thursday, September 10th, I hope you join me at 9.15 p.m. for my streaming show, All There Is Live. It's on every other Thursday. You can watch new episodes live on cnn.com slash allthereis. And it's free on our community page for a week after it airs live. Thanks so much for listening.