Can Michele Tafoya Win the GOP a Minnesota Senate Seat?

0:01Everyone wants health care to be simpler and easier. That's why UnitedHealth Group is fast-tracking more than 60 % of children's procedures that used to need pre-approval. So more kids get the care they need when they need it. And speeding up procedure approvals and payments for more than 1 ,500 rural hospitals. So they can focus on caring for their communities. And that's just the start. Learn more at uhg.com slash access. From the opinion pages of The Wall Street Journal, this is All Things with Kim Strassel. With just two weeks to go to election, the GOP continues in a tough political environment, albeit with some interesting bright spots.

0:44One of those is the race for an open Senate seat in Minnesota between Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan and Republican Michelle Tafoya. What are the biggest issues in that race? How big is the fraud scandal playing? And can Republicans really win a Minnesota Senate seat for the first time in 24 years? Welcome to All Things with Kim Strassel. And joining me to talk all those questions is one of the candidates themselves, Michelle Tafoya, who has spent about three decades as a prominent sports broadcaster before taking her mic to politics. Hi, Michelle. How are you, Kim? Good to see you. Good. Where are you coming to us from today?

1:19I'm from the suburbs of the Minneapolis-St. Paul area today, right here in Minnesota, between many, many campaign stops. Good to be sitting down for a moment. I bet. I'm glad we gave you that opportunity. I am glad to. Thank you. I want to jump right in on the issue that I think has helped give the GOP an opening in a state where they have struggled to win statewide elections, and that is fraud. Voters have heard a lot about the Republican outrage over hundreds of millions of wasted dollars, billions, and what happened. Voters are outraged themselves. But talk to me specifically about what you think failed in Minnesota's oversight system.

1:58Well, there was no oversight. Or if there was, they turned away and looked. Look, they were either clueless or they were complicit. And either way, it's disqualifying. And I'll tell you, you know, the numbers are varying. We have at least hundreds of millions of dollars of fraud. At most, some estimates are up to$18 billion. And this is a state where we had already blown a surplus. We had an$18 billion surplus. It turned into a$7 billion deficit here in Minnesota. And Minnesotans pay some of the highest taxes in America. You kind of add those things together in one big stew, and Minnesotans are ticked off.

2:38They feel like, well, hang on. want it. You want me to stay here through the hard winters. You want me to pay the high car tab fees. You want me to pay all of these taxes. And yet you can't keep track of our money. So I think this is where the anger lies, in addition to which neither the governor nor the lieutenant governor nor the attorney general are taking any accountability for this. My opponent says, well, the governor said it was really in his purview. The thing about that, Kim, that I want to say before I finish this answer is that when they took office together eight years ago, both Tim Walls and Peggy Flanagan said this is going to be a unique partnership.

3:16She's not going to be one of those ribbon cutter lieutenant governors. She's going to be involved in policy, in hiring, in making major decisions. This is going to be a partnership. So she can't pick and choose which policies she's responsible for. She was right there in the room where all of it happened. Yeah, no question. She owns this. Yeah. But just to dig down a little bit, do you consider because I think there's just so much going on here. Was this fundamentally and primarily a breakdown in day to day management of the system or a failure of political leadership? Or was it both of those things?

3:51I think it was both. And mostly I think it was political. You know, there's there is a tape of our AG, Keith Ellison, talking to some of these fraudsters who were later charged and sort of promising a quid pro quo. I'll take care of you. You take care of me. So he says they gave him a$10 ,000 donation to his campaign. He says he sent it back, but he is denying any culpability. Look, there are so many strands to this. And gratefully, the feds have come in to pick up a lot of those strands and work with our U.S. attorney here in Minnesota, because I'll tell you what, this administration hasn't done anything.

4:26And that's accountability that they haven't taken that really has the voters upset. Like, why has no one been fired? The only real consequence we've seen is that Tim Walls was convinced to step out of his third term gubernatorial race because there was no way he was going to survive this. But Peggy Flanagan is asking for a promotion. Nobody else has been fired. Some fraudsters have been put in prison, but there is no way as the great Senator Rudy Boschwitz, one of our last Republican senators from Minnesota back in the 80s, said to me, $9 billion doesn't get lost without people knowing. So people knew.

5:01People knew. On the accountability question, a lot of these programs are actually joint partnerships between the state and the federal government. You're asking to go to D.C. to be the senator in Washington. What would you want the federal government to do differently to prevent a recurrence of something like this in terms of oversight or coordination between agencies or restructuring of these programs. I'm interested in the mechanics here. The first thing I think would be to let people know that if you are a guest of this country and you defraud Americans, you're going to be deported. There will be no questions asked.

5:36You're gone and there is no pathway back. And in Minnesota, we've had a hard time applying consequences to a lot of crime, but this needs to happen. Number two, if you're an American citizen and you defraud Americans, as a very good friend of mine in New York lost$90 ,000 of her personal wealth to another American citizen. No longer are we just going to call that a white collar crime. These need to have some serious mandatory prison minimums. That accountability factor has to be there. And the third part of it is what I think you're referencing. We cannot continue to just promise federal dollars and send federal dollars to states that don't have their fiscal house in order.

6:14If you don't have guardrails in place, if you don't have ways to have triggers for fraud and clawing back that money, you don't get the federal funding to begin with. I mean, these are common sense things that would apply in most businesses and in most family households. Why aren't we applying them in this case? A related question about what you would do in Washington. Everyone's talking right now about cost of living and voters don't really want to hear about macro statistics and GDP numbers and stuff. They're living this through grocery bills, utility bills, insurance premiums, housing costs.

6:49What would be the couple of things that you would prioritize if you went to D.C. to reduce those costs? What would you push or push the Trump administration on? Well, first and foremost, I think, you know, we have to look at the cost to Americans of this war in Iran, which is now going on seven, eight months. That was not what we expected going in. We were told it was going to be very short. And I believe that no president of either party has a blank check to wage war without the consent of Congress and the buy-in of the American people. And that includes Donald Trump. And so, you know, we're at a point now we need to end this and this quickly.

7:26We do need to end it strategically. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, but they also can't be in a position to take the world's economy hostage again, ever. So that's what I would like to see happen is to have this end quickly with those stipulations. When I'm sworn in, if I have the honor of being sworn in in January, we're going to be looking at close to a year at that point of this war. And I think at that point, then you're getting the classified briefings. You're talking to people on the ground in the area, the commanders. You're getting more information. But I would be inclined at that point to vote to end this war through a War Powers resolution.

8:00So that would bring prices down, I would like to think, very quickly with gas prices coming way down, which has affected so many things. I mean, we've got headline inflation and we've got core inflation, and they're two very different numbers. And I think the headline inflation with fuel prices and diesel being so high is really skewing things. If we fix that, I think that we feel immediate relief. Would you do that vote in January? And you have suggested you would. You just did here, too. Even if we had not concluded in a strategic fashion, if the job was unfinished and at what price demanded by Iranians?

8:35Yeah, I mean, those are the critical questions. And like I said, I would like at that point to know what the classified briefings say, to know what people on the ground are saying, to know where we stand. I'd like to believe that these sanctions we are imposing on Iran are eventually going to to break them. If we come out of there and we're saying, well, we have to end it, but they they still have access to a nuclear program. We've got to get something in place that puts checks on that. There is no question. And they cannot. they cannot have this command over the Strait of Hormuz. And I know that our Navy has been doing everything with the blockade to keep ships moving, but obviously it's not enough, right?

9:16So it's a great question. And I would like to think here we are, you and I are talking in October, mid-October. I would like to think by then that these answers are going to be coming because it makes it a much tougher decision to make if they still have access to some sort of nuclear program. On prices, would you push the president on tariffs? I would. Look, tariffs are not the victory here. Tariffs are a tool that we can use. I'll just use Minnesota farmers for an example. And I've been endorsed by the Minnesota Farm Bureau because they know I will partner with them. They have whispered in my ear, Michelle, we need access to more markets.

9:51We can't just rely on China to buy our soybeans. We're a big player in the soy market. And I know that. Now, you can use short-term tariffs to bring partners to the table and say, look, we've got to reframe this, or we've got to recreate this deal so that it makes it acceptable on both sides. I think both sides of the aisle, Kim, have failed on this. We have told our farmers and our innovators here that if we just have free trade, it'll be fair trade. That hasn't been the case. We have lowered trade barriers and had others raised against us. People have broken rules. That's got to end. And that's where I think sometimes, you know, these tough impositions of tariffs can bring people to the table.

10:33Right now with Canada, one of our major trading partners, that thing has to get fixed. I'd like to see Mexico wrapped up as well. I believe in Jameson Greer to get those things done. And I know I heard this morning that there's going to be more assistance to farmers as they face these unprecedented gas and diesel prices. That's all fine and good, but farmers want to earn their money. And so they want open markets. And so if it takes a temporary tariff to get someone to the table, that is a tool, but it is not the win. Longstanding, you know, long-term agreements are the victory. We're going to take a quick break.

11:07When we come back, a look at Minnesota's unique politics. Everyone wants health care to be simpler and easier. That's why UnitedHealth Group is fast-tracking more than 60 % of children's procedures that used to need pre-approval, so more kids get the care they need when they need it. And speeding up procedure approvals and payments for more than 1 ,500 rural hospitals, so they can focus on caring for their communities. And that's just the start. Learn more at uhg.com slash access.

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12:32Welcome back to All Things with Kim Strassel. I am here this week with Minnesota Senate candidate Michelle Tafoya. You just said something fascinating. You said, you know, Minnesota is unique. And I find Minnesota the most interesting state politically because it's just not like any other state, especially when it comes to voting populations and demographics. You've got this fascinating mix of labor oriented Democrats and rural populace and suburban moderates and the huge metro area. And party labels don't always really apply in Minnesota the way they do in other places. What do you think Minnesota voters want that neither national party is really getting right now?

13:16Well, they really do want accountability. They want safety. You know, we've had some crime uptick here that we presented a plan for with Somali gang violence. But, yeah, it is an interesting mix. And that, you know, when you travel the state, Kim, and you go up north to the Iron Range, they want mining. People in the cities say no mining. It's going to be dirty when they don't really have familiarity with the Iron Range like the folks up there do. You go to the southern part of the state that Tim Walls called rocks and cows, you know, and you think these people feel forgotten out here. So it is a very complicated, complex matrix of people with their needs and their wants.

13:57But I think primarily here in Minnesota, they have reached a limit of being so taxed and overregulated. And everyone wants prosperity, right? Safety and prosperity. That's what I want for Minnesota. I want them unleashed. Look, we've got the Mayo Clinic. We've got the University of Minnesota. We've got 3M. We've got the mining region. We have so much innovation in this state, but companies are leaving because they feel so frustrated and so bogged down by the regulation that this state has put on them. So I think we've got to clear some of that up for them and make it great and fun to be an innovator and a business person here again.

14:38You mentioned the Iron Range. And here's the interesting thing from a party politics perspective is Republicans have actually been making gains in a lot of Minnesota, including the Iron Range. You know, a lot of the different sections you just mentioned in the South with Northwest. But a lot of the make and break in Minnesota elections when it comes to statewide office is those suburban voters outside of the Twin Cities. And, you know, they're very unhappy at the economy at the moment. the war. They remain a bit wary of Republicans. How are you trying to reach those folks? Are you trying to reach those folks?

15:13And what do you have to do to convince them to take a chance on you as a Republican senator? Well, I think what they're hearing from me and what our message continues to be is I'm an independent thinker. I've said that I'm going to Washington to be an equal opportunity pain in the ass to corruption and corrupt politicians wherever they live. Do you have that on a yard science somewhere. Well, we got it out at the debate and I'll repeat it as many times as I have to. Look, I don't like corruption anywhere, anywhere by anyone. So if you're a Republican, a Democrat, whatever you are, and you're corrupt, that needs to be looked into.

15:50And that might include my opponent who whose net worth went up a thousand times in her eight years as lieutenant governor. So, you know, look, that needs to be looked at. And I think people, because they've seen this fraud so widespread here in Minnesota, they're starting to believe this isn't a one way thing. This is happening on both sides of the aisle. There is no question about that. And, you know, look, my independence from the president on questions like tariffs, like the war, like I'm a pro-choice Republican. I've said that very clearly, too. And so I'm not afraid to stand up to my party.

16:24I'm an independent thinker. I bring sober judgment and second and third level thinking to problems. Unlike, for example, the Paid Family Leave Act here in Minnesota, which sounded so lovely to Tim Walls and Peggy Flanagan, like this will be so nice of us. Yeah. But did you think past how nice it would sound and to the actual problems? The again, openings for massive fraud in this program, it is already unsustainable and we're not even a year in. So that's the kind of deeper thinking that we need when we get a bunch of people in the room. You expect smart results to come out of it, not just, you know, seat of the pants thinking.

17:01And so that's what we are promising Minnesotans. We're going there to represent them, not a party boss, not a party leader, not a lobbyist. I think you just put your finger on actually maybe one of the things that does unite Minnesotans is they do like independent thinkers. They have over their history. And that's what I find kind of curious about the support that does exist out there for your opponent, Peggy Flanagan, because she's definitely not an independent thinker. if you look at her agenda, is very much the Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren marching orders. She's called for dismantling ICE, taxing the rich, socialized health care, Green New Deal.

17:38You know, and those positions energize the Democratic base. But it could give pause. It should give pause to voters who are very unhappy with the course of both parties at the moment. What specific positions do you think that she would take to the Senate that Minnesotans ought to be worried about and know about? You know, she likes to use the word rubber stamp, and I think it's because she is so familiar with it. She has been a rubber stamp for Tim Wall. She will be a rubber stamp for the far left wing of the Democrat Party. She is using terms like genocide when it comes to Israel. She is using the Medicare for all, which is a complete and utter pipe dream.

18:21Can't can't afford it. She's contending that it's going to save us money and save lives. She's delusional when it comes to that. So those are two right off the bat. But yes, the Green New Deal, she says rip up ICE. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but it doesn't sound like a real bit of support for law enforcement. Again, I'll just say I am so proud to be endorsed by numerous law enforcement, whether it's the MPPOA, the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association, the Federation of Police, because they know and people here know they want public safety has to be at the top of the list without it, without national security, without feeling secure in your daily life.

19:02it gets pretty rough out there and it gets things sort of come into clear perspective that if you don't have public safety, you might not be able to have a homecoming dance. If you don't have public safety, they might have to take all the basketball hoops down at your playgrounds to keep gangs away. And so then your kids can't play basketball. I'm talking about real life things that have happened here in the Twin Cities in the last two weeks that make it very, this is no longer theoretical. This is very real for Minnesotans. So she's not really a public safety champion. We're going to take one more break.

19:35When we come back, what exactly does a winning Republican coalition look like in Minnesota? Everyone wants health care to be simpler and easier. That's why UnitedHealth Group is fast tracking more than 60 percent of children's procedures that used to need pre-approval. So more kids get the care they need when they need it. and speeding up procedure approvals and payments for more than 1 ,500 rural hospitals so they can focus on caring for their communities. And that's just the start. Learn more at uhg.com slash access.

20:13From the opinion pages of The Wall Street Journal, this is All Things with Kim Strassel. Welcome back. When we talk about ICE and we talk about immigration policy, border security, Obviously, everybody's really happy that the border has been secured. OK, and that was a big reason people returned Donald Trump to the White House. Now we have these ongoing questions about who's here and deportations and crime. Obviously, we're going after a lot of bad guys taking care of that. But one thing that I think has been a little lost in the shuffle, if you went to Washington, do we need broader immigration reform to deal with some underlying issues?

20:52I think there's no question that we need reform. because we're dealing with problems that have stacked up over the years. And I think that becomes overwhelming for people. Well, OK, so you always hear Nancy Pelosi and the like saying comprehensive immigration reform. I'm not sure that that's the approach, because now you're saying it's going to take us years to suss out what exactly needs to be done to craft this comprehensive top to bottom. I think that there can be some piecemeal approaches to this. And look, I know that even here in Minnesota, we have always had room for some number of vetted folks to come in and work for farmers, for dairy operations, et cetera.

21:36And I think that we can have that room still. Look, I look at this, too, from my experience adopting my daughter from Colombia, Bogota, and bringing her here as a legal immigrant. I'm the granddaughter of immigrants. We are a nation of immigrants, but we've got to be a nation of law and order. And I think those two things really strengthen one another. So we've got to do that. I think everyone can agree we welcome people, but we want to welcome people who want to live by our values and preserve American values. And we have seen a lot of folks here who have not done that. Murderers, child rapists, you name it.

22:15And those people need to go and they need to go immediately. And yes, as far as the rest of our immigration process, it needs a good look. It needs, again, sound thinking, a lot of smart people in a room saying what makes sense. And maybe we do this a piece at a time so we don't have to wait 10 years to get comprehensive immigration reform that would be nearly impossible to get to get through without a whole bunch of junk stuck in there. That is a very interesting approach. What's your strategy for a winning coalition? What are you most focused on at the moment? Are you trying to increase GOP turnout in greater Minnesota, as we were talking about the Iron Range, Central Minnesota, Red River Valley?

23:01Are you trying to reach those suburb communities? How are you attempting to get the votes you need on Election Day? Yeah, all of the above, Kim. And I know that sounds really like not an answer, but it really is. In 2022, the last midterm hearing, you likely have heard this number. We had 200 ,000 Republicans in Minnesota not vote. Oh, wow. 200 ,000. And you think about just the attorney general's race. Keith Ellison won by 8 ,500. And so when you consider that, I've been screaming that stat, just trying to amplify to every group that I talk to. We've got to get there. We absolutely have to get there.

23:41But honestly, we've got about a third of our population that identify as independents. And we're leading among those independents right now by double digits. And we're super proud of that because we feel like our message is getting out. So, look, I've talked to suburban moms and I'm going to continue to. I've been to Duluth. I've been to Rochester. We've been to the Red River Valley. Like I said, I went to Southwest, which is a whole separate region of people with their individual needs and wants. So we are talking to as many people as we possibly can. We are happy with the message that we've been able to put on the airwaves.

24:17And we're going to continue to point out exactly who Peggy Flanagan is and that for eight years, she has been second in command to Tim Walz under the most failed leadership this state has ever seen. I had a voter come up to me recently and say, this has been the worst eight years in Minnesota history. We have a lot of Democrats crossing over, which is really exciting to me. I've talked to them. I've met with them. They've donated to the campaign. They've appeared in commercials for us. So we're going after everyone. This is really an independent kind of campaign. And we're happy to be presenting that.

24:53Well, you just teed up a great last question that I had. Do you think you can pull off some ticket splitting? I mean, can you get voters out there that are maybe going to pull the lever for a Democratic governor, Amy Klobuchar, but maybe also pull the lever for a Republican Senator Michelle Tafoya? It's a great question. We are at the top of the ticket. The Senate race is at the top. So we really hope so. We think when they look at their choice at U.S. Senate, they're going to say Michelle is better for Minnesota and better for the United States Senate. And then they will go on from there. I was talking to my on-the-ground campaign manager here yesterday.

25:30She's been a part of many campaigns. And I said, is this split ticket thing, you know, for real? because I'm still, you know, Kim, I'm sort of a newbie at this. I'm an outsider. I don't know a lot about all the process. And she said, it is a real thing. And it's interesting if you just go around some of the neighborhoods in my area, you will see a ton of Michelle Tafoya for Senate signs and you will see Amy Klobuchar signs, not on the same lawns, but across the street from one another. and very, very, very few Peggy Flanagan signs. So that is telltale that someone will put a Klobuchar sign in their yard without the Peggy Flanagan sign is very interesting to me.

26:12Yeah, well, it's also very Minnesota to me. We will be avidly watching to see how this turns out in just a couple of weeks time. Michelle Tafoya, we thank you so much for coming on the show this week. We want to thank our listeners for tuning in. We are here every week. If you like the show, please do hit the subscribe button. And if you'd like to write to me, you can at atkim at wsj.com.

26:41Everyone wants health care to be simpler and easier. That's why UnitedHealth Group is fast tracking more than 60 % of children's procedures that used to need pre-approval. So more kids get the care they need when they need it. and speeding up procedure approvals and payments for more than 1 ,500 rural hospitals so they can focus on caring for their communities. And that's just the start. Learn more at uhg.com slash access.