Sen. John Cornyn on Jack Smith, Ken Paxton and the GOP Midterm Chances

0:01Everyone wants health care to be simpler and easier. That's why UnitedHealth Group is fast-tracking more than 60 % of children's procedures that used to need pre-approval. So more kids get the care they need when they need it. And speeding up procedure approvals and payments for more than 1 ,500 rural hospitals. So they can focus on caring for their communities. And that's just the start. Learn more at uhg.com slash access. From the opinion pages of The Wall Street Journal, this is All Things with Kim Strassel. The Senate takes up its final week before breaking for midterm campaigning with possible votes on data centers, stock trading and nominations, as well as a hearing featuring former special counsel Jack Smith.

0:49What messages do Republicans intend to now take up on the trail with them? Also, what's happening down in Texas and could that state really go blue? Welcome to All Things with Kim Strassel. And joining me this week to talk all things politics and policy is Texas Senator John Cornyn. Senator, it's such a delight to have you back. How are things? Just perfect, Kim. Actually, these are challenging times for everybody, but I'm doing great. Thank you for having me. You bet. Let's just jump in with a little hot off the presses news. You sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee, and on Tuesday, former special counsel Jack Smith appeared to answer for some of his abuses in his sweeping investigation of Donald Trump, including his decision to snoop through the records of members of Congress.

1:38I want to get your thoughts on his appearance, but just here's what struck me. I wasn't surprised much by what came from the dais. Democrats predictably praised him and recalled January 6th. Republicans drilled in with questions about his actions. But what really struck me was how poorly he performed. He seemed unprepared beyond talking points. He didn't seem to have any answers to basic questions. At times, he was blaming people who worked below him. You're a lawyer and former judge, and you in particular asked him some pretty probing questions about the Supreme Court decision on presidential immunity, the fact that a judge threw out his documents case on grounds he was improperly appointed.

2:23And his attitude in response to you was kind of like, well, you know, those people, those judges, they're entitled to their opinion. It was so haughty. In your view, what came out of this hearing? What was the benefit of this hearing? Well, he doesn't lack for self-confidence, that's for sure. I love these prosecutors, but sometimes they feel and sound a little self-righteous, and they don't really understand or not willing to concede the context for their actions. And in this case, as you know, Merrick Garland, the member of the President Biden's cabinet, appointed Jack Smith to investigate and prosecute a political opponent three days after President Trump announced for election in the 2024 election.

3:11You know, I think Jack Smith is certainly tone deaf. It'd be the nicest thing you could say. But who in their right mind would think that this is not a political act of warfare, I think, against a political opponent? All the other details aside, and there are plenty of other details, but I thought, particularly because, as you know, the independent council statute has had a rather checkered past and now has become the special council. But, you know, So there's this patina of independence on the part of the special counsel, but he wouldn't even admit that Merrick Garland could fire him at will, even though he's the one who appointed him.

3:48So I thought it was not a stellar performance. I'd love to get your opinion because you are a lawyer, a former judge, a longtime member of Congress. You understand the law deeply. Do you think the American people, the Senate, future administrations have maybe finally learned some lessons about the folly of just willy-nilly appointing special counsels for anything. I mean, when does this ever do any of us any good? Well, I think it was Winston Churchill that said something about humankind being unteachable. We seem to make the same mistakes over and over again. And, you know, if you go back, as I said, look at the Independent Council and then how those investigations sort of metastasized to cover anything and everything that they came within their purview, that was not good because there really isn't anybody who should be truly independent in a democratic republic like ours.

4:43And it really is more appropriate, as many scholars have said, that you have the accountability at the Justice Department, and that is the person who's ultimately responsible, and obviously the administration responsible for that attorney general. So this has been controversial for a long time, but we never in the 250 years our country has existed had an attorney general basically appoint a prosecutor three days after a political opponent of the incumbent president has announced for election. Not in 250 years. And I just think that was where he seemed incredibly tone deaf. Yeah, it was funny. As I was watching the hearing, there were numerous times where he repeated his talking point, no one is above the law.

5:33And I kept thinking, except apparently for you. So this week in the Senate, last hurrah before heading out on the campaign trail, a lot of last week was taken up with the ultimately successful passage on Monday of a college sports reform bill. There's been some griping even in your own conference as to why Congress is dealing with this question right now. But you were supportive of the bill. What's the case for passing it? Well, I do think it's a little unusual to be taking this up at a time when everybody else is talking about the cost of living and affordability. And we're going to get to that here tomorrow in some very important votes on the Stock Act, where it would prohibit members of Congress and their families trading in individual stocks while they're members.

6:22And also this Senator Husted's Data Protection Act, Consumer Protection Act, which basically makes sure that consumers will not have to pay increased electricity costs as a result of data centers in their neighborhood or in their community. So we're going to get to those, but it's crazy. The wild, wild west associated with college sports these days, even the NFL's got rules, and we have people, athletes, being paid millions of dollars and being subjected to unlicensed, unaccredited agents who, unfortunately, I think are in a position to exploit some of these young athletes who are not particularly sophisticated in the ways of the world.

7:05So I think it was worth doing. And I congratulate Senator Cruz and Senator Cantwell for doing it. But I think this is not what's going to decide the midterm elections. We're going to take a quick break when we come back. More with Texas Senator John Cornyn. Everyone wants health care to be simpler and easier. That's why UnitedHealth Group is fast tracking more than 60 percent of children's procedures that used to need preapproval. So more kids get the care they need when they need it. and speeding up procedure approvals and payments for more than 1 ,500 rural hospitals so they can focus on caring for their communities.

7:44And that's just the start. Learn more at uhg.com slash access.

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8:40Welcome back to All Things with Kim Strassel. I am here this week with Texas Senator John Cornyn talking about what's left to be done in the Senate. So on that Ratepayer Protection Act, this is essentially a bill that would ask that large consumers of electricity, those who are engaged in data centers, AI infrastructure, computing, that they pay for incremental upgrades to generation and transmission and distribution. It isn't a mandate. It gives states some time to decide if they want to adopt it. And this strikes me as, fair enough, this is a new world. We want some flexibility out there. And you'd think, in fact, the Democrats would want that in case some of their blue states want to go a different direction.

9:23Maybe even a tougher direction was some of this. And this bill did pass the House overwhelmingly, 417 to 3. And yet suddenly you now have Senate Democrats almost uniformly opposed. Explain that to me because I've got a feeling it has something to do with politics and not the policy here. This is all about Ohio. And Senator Husted is running for election against former Senator Sherrod Brown. And this is a real issue in his state as it is around the country. These data centers have gotten a bad name. That's another whole story. I don't think we can fail to compete when it comes to developing AI, especially against China.

10:06But I think stakeholders have to be consulted, and you have to respect the local consumers who would otherwise be asked to pay their price. This is something you may recall President Trump talked about in his last State of the Union speech. It said data centers would have their independent electricity generation capabilities so they wouldn't raise the prices for consumers. But there's also concerns about water usage, land usage, and the like. But to me, the bottom line is just as simple as you've got to satisfy the local stakeholders before you come plop down a big data center in their neighborhood.

10:40You just brought this up. Are Republicans panicking too much about data centers and AI? I mean, even in your own state, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, and I thought this was really unfortunate to see, he came out in favor of a pause in data center construction. We've got Republicans running around talking about bills to sort of hold back certain AI development. I mean, it strikes me, don't Republicans as a party of free markets have an obligation to be out there talking about the need to win the AI race, especially against China? and also explaining that these things that Americans now love and rely upon, podcasts like this and Zoom and calls and music stores, that all this needs this infrastructure.

11:26Yeah, I think both the data centers, the people who financed them and built them have done a bad job messaging, but it also goes all the way to the top. This is an area, though, that I do agree with President Trump on, that he said we can't hit the brakes on development of AI because obviously our competitors, namely China, will not. But we do and should remain sensitive to the concerns of folks at the local level. I was talking to one company just earlier today, and they said, well, we're writing checks, the bonus checks to school teachers in the school districts where they're being affected.

12:04And we're training people in things like to be electricians or diesel mechanics or HVAC mechanics. And these are things that we need if we're going to re-industrialize and build more things here in America. So I think part of it is just a failure to explain it. And some of it is just being downright oblivious to the local concerns. So I think this bill that Senator Husted has helps us reaffirm our commitment to make sure that how this affects individuals, and particularly on their electricity bills, is something we're paying attention to and willing to stop. What else are we likely, if at all, to see from Congress this week?

12:47You mentioned a stock trading ban, but there's also a nomination for a new labor secretary hanging out there, Keith Sonderling. What I certainly hope to see pass is a couple of Congressional Review Act resolutions that would end some Biden climate-related waivers for California, which are terrible for the shipping industry. But what else do you think happens before you guys get out of there? Well, all of those are on our list of things that we could do. And some of it just depends on how much cooperation we get. As you know, in the Senate, we are bound by rules which take longer than it otherwise should if a single senator decides to object.

13:27And then you have to file the appropriate motions and procedures, motions to proceed, closure petitions and the like, all that that most people don't care too much about. But that's going to make it challenging for us to get to that list of items that you mentioned. Particularly the nominations is, I know, tied up into a larger dispute. I think Senator Kramer and some others have some concerns that are unrelated to the nominee, but this is what happens when you only have a week in session and a whole lot of things to do. Well, you guys will also potentially have a lame duck session, but what happens in that lame duck may come down to what happens in the midterms, too.

14:10You see polling and memos and research that we mere mortals don't get to see. right now, what odds do you give Republicans of keeping A, the Senate, and B, the House? Well, sadly, I think the people who I read and who I trust think the House is in bad shape. In other words, we will likely lose the House. I hope that's not true. And I know the Speaker and others are doing all they can to prevent that from happening. But to me, the most important thing is we maintain the majority in the U.S. Senate. I was at an event last night honoring the legacy of Justice Scalia, 40 years after he took the oath and 10 years after he died.

14:52And, you know, I'm very proud of the confirmations of Justice Kavanaugh, Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Justice Gorsuch, all of whom I saw last night. And if there's an opportunity to fill another vacancy on the Supreme Court, I want to make sure that President Trump is the one being able to make that nomination and we have a Senate majority to confirm that individual. I don't know whether that will happen or not, but I think that's one reason why it's important to have the Senate majority. And we need a firewall, particularly if the House members are able to flip the House, and that's an important role the Senate could play.

15:30Tough subject, but Texas, I'm just going to address it. You were challenged in a primary by Ken Paxton, the attorney general, in a very bitter primary. The president ultimately endorsed him and he won. This is a guy with a lot of baggage and a lot of Republicans are turned off by him. Polls show him struggling against Democratic Senate candidate James Tallarico. And Republicans have already dumped more than$100 million into that race, money that could be going to other states. How big of a mistake was the nomination of Paxton? How likely is it that a Texas Senate seat goes blue. Well, you know, this is part of the challenge of our primaries and our runoff.

16:11We had 7 % of registered voters vote in the runoff, but I accept their verdict, and, you know, I've moved past that. But I do think that all of the things that we talked about in the primary basically are coming true in terms of how much harder it is to sell a candidate like the attorney general in a general election where you have independents and Democrats voting as well. And Charlie Cook, the political commentator, has said that really what we're seeing is an undertow, and that is not as many Republicans supporting the nominee as Democrats supporting their nominee. And, you know, I don't know what the turnout is going to look like.

16:52It's going to depend on the turnout. So I think there are a lot of questions. The attorney general has not led in any single public poll. The president's own pollster did a poll a week or so ago that showed him four points down. You know, Texas is still a red state and Republicans could rally at the last minute. So I don't know what is going to be the outcome, but I do know that it's costing a lot of money that could be used in other states because we have at least six other states where it's a lot less expensive than Texas to run. So it's a tough decision. It's not my decision, but it's a tough decision for the people who are spending that money and trying to maintain the majority.

17:35That particular candidate and race aside, just more broadly looking at Texas, there does seem to be, and this is the thing that actually worries me even more, you can have bad candidates, but when you see bigger trends, that's concerning. And there is some indication that Texas voters are more generally unhappy with Republicans. And for some evidence, how strong it is, I don't know. I point to the Greg Abbott race for governor. I mean, this is a proven quantity, a governor who's done a good job of shepherding Texas, been part of this huge influx of people moving into a thriving state. And yet he seems to be in a close reelection against Democrat Gina Hinojosa.

18:21What do you think accounts for that? What's happening? Is it that the state's moving or just the broad kind of public unhappiness right now with the state of costs and et cetera? I think the voters are in a sour mood and it's directly related to the price of diesel, the price of gasoline. And, you know, I think at some point after people have been in office a while, the voters become a little, they become a little stale in terms of the voters. And I think when voters are not happy with the status quo, then usually you want to be want to talk about how you're going to change the status quo. And it makes it harder for somebody who's been in office a long time to do that, because if you could have done it, you should have already gotten it done.

19:02But I think the governor is going to be fine. The challenge is, I think, going to be because we don't have a straight ticket voting anymore in Texas. We have a libertarian on the ballot in the Senate race. And the question is going to be, since the Senate race is at the top of the ballot and then the governor's race or the congressional races and then the governor's race is how many people will go ahead and vote down ballot. And having been at the bottom of the ballot before, you usually depend on the top of the ballot to turn people out and to get them to vote. And it may be some drop-off, maybe people pick and choose races.

19:38I've even heard the Texas Speaker of the House saying that we're seeing people split their tickets. We haven't seen that in a while. So I think it's going to be fascinating. I hope it turns out well, certainly. But I think there's a lot of factors here that are making this a very complex environment. That's a fascinating point about the top of the ticket. We're going to take one more break. When we come back, more on the Texas elections. Everyone wants health care to be simpler and easier. That's why UnitedHealth Group is fast-tracking more than 60 percent of children's procedures that used to need pre-approval, so more kids get the care they need when they need it.

20:18And speeding up procedure approvals and payments for more than 1 ,500 rural hospitals, so they can focus on caring for their communities. And that's just the start. Learn more at uhg.com slash access.

20:36From the opinion pages of the Wall Street Journal, this is All Things with Kim Strossel. Welcome back. Let's just assume Republicans do keep the Senate and they are that firewall you mentioned too, but you guys are all going to have one last session. Lame duck. You're going to come back. And just on my short list of things that have not been done, kind of got pushed aside here. Appropriations for fiscal 2027. You guys are operating on a continuing resolution that expires in early December. You guys never got a permitting bill despite claims it was pretty close. There's been unfinished work on a highway bill, a farm bill, FISA Section 702 is still nowhere.

21:16So what's at the top of the agenda when you guys come back? Well, I think keeping the lights on and dealing with the CR that expires, the continuing resolution on December the 11th is going to be job number one. But you mentioned a long list of things that need to be done. I've been a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee for 10 years, and the expiration of 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is a serious problem because it hasn't been reauthorized. And 60 percent of what the president gets in his daily intelligence brief comes from 702, and that's not been reauthorized. So we need to get that done in the lame duck.

21:53Permitting reform, you know, we talked a lot about building things and reindustrializing in America. This is absolutely critical. And Senator Capito and new Senator Armstrong, who's with us just for a short while from Oklahoma. And then Sheldon Whitehouse and Martin Heinrich have negotiated a package, but unfortunately, we're not going to get up to vote on it before the election. So that will be front and center in the lame duck. But I think a lot of this, as you might imagine, is going to depend on the outcome of the election. And certainly, if there are things that Democrats think they can get more of or do better with in January than they could in December, then, And, you know, they're not going to be cooperating and we're not going to be able to get that done.

22:36So, so much depends on this election. And I think that's going to determine, by and large, what it is we can do during the lame duck. Well, last question, sir. You have represented Texas in the Senate now for 24 years. I have always admired your work there. You are one of those members that puts in the work, digs into policy issues, cares a lot about some of the tougher questions like national security, intelligence issues. As you mentioned, you are also always a classy guy. And I just wonder, as you head into your last few months here, what will you walk away from this time as being the thing that you are proudest of that you did in your time in the Senate?

23:16You know, 24 years is a long time. And so looking back on it, you know, a longtime member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and we've talked about the Supreme Court and that legacy for President Trump and for the Republican and it will last a long time, certainly beyond my term in office. But, you know, the two things that I will walk away disappointed in not being able to accomplish is we're pushing$40 trillion in debt. And I think everybody realizes that we're probably not going to deal with that until there's a crisis of some sort. And that's, I think, really embarrassing and that's bad. And the other is the immigration issue.

23:55President Trump secured the border, and that's what the last election was about, and kudos to him for that. But some of the enforcement measures now, I think, where people who otherwise are living peacefully and contributing to our society, I don't think most people think that this should be a priority for deportation. So figuring some sort of immigration bill, which will allow us to deal with our workforce needs for sure, but in a more compassionate way, realizing that the border's been broken for a long time and we're not going to fix it in one fell swoop. Securing the border, yes, that's non-negotiable.

24:33But I think that's going to be another one of those areas where I believe disappointed we weren't able to do something more. Well, I will add to my list of attributes honesty about some of the problems that certainly do exist out there. Senator Cornyn, I want to thank you for your service. Thank you for coming on the show this week. We'd also like to thank our listeners. We are here every week. If you like the show, we sure would like you to hit the subscribe button. And if you'd like to write to us, you can at atkim at wsj.com.

25:33We'll see you next time. Learn more at uhg.com slash access.