781. High Achieving, But Still Unhappy? The Reason Will Surprise You

27:08Well, you know, I'm glad you brought up cities because I think a lot of people do feel that way when they're in cities. It is literally a rat race. There are rats and it is a rat race, you know. And I think people end up feeling like initially excited to move to a big city or to have the, you know, the good fortune to work in a big city, they've made it. But then they go through this existential crisis if they haven't gone through one in adolescence, right? And they're just like, well, wait, so I worked hard just to go to a small box and stare at a screen while I eat food that's not good for me, you know, that I can't even afford, you know?

27:46So I'm seeing a lot of this, especially in people who are in Gen Z, you know, because they have, you know, they don't have the opportunities for creating as much wealth. And I don't even think they, the majority of the Gen Z clients I work with, I don't even think they really want wealth. They just want to have like a decent living where they have, you know, balance, right? But they can't even obtain that because the financial system isn't the way it used to be. The job opportunities are not there. So they feel in particular, I think, hopeless. Like, why am I doing this? You know, what was the point of going to school?

28:23Why even move to a big city? Why, like, they lied to me about my dreams, you know, it's not real. So I'm seeing a lot of anhedonia and a lot of like early burnout, you know, in these populations. There's a fast turnaround in terms of starting a job and then leaving a job, you know. And so I think that talking about this is not just important from a, we all deserve of a happier life standpoint, but it just makes society better when we feel fulfilled, when we are able to access joy. We stay around longer. We pour into our communities. We connect better. And I think every industry is impacted when there's a lack of joy.

29:04Yeah, I completely agree. I'm a millennial. I feel like millennials, correct me if I'm wrong, feel that like pressure and you speak about this in the book not about millennials specifically but I feel this the pressure to have it all and just how it can correlate with that just intense pressure it's like a you know it's a pie in the sky vision of having it all but is it realistic and what do we have to do or sacrifice to get there um yeah I'm I'm wondering if that's like a an outdated dream, you know, and what can be more realistic? I guess, what would you say to someone who's kind of bringing you that, that like that frame of mind as they're approaching their life?

29:53Yeah. You know, I do a lot of content on generations and I'm an elder millennial. So I'm like right on the cusp. Totally. And I think that when you look at generations, at least for in my practice. And I treat people of all ages. My youngest client is four and the oldest client is 89 because I do some dementia research as well. So boomers, their parents raised them in this survival mode. Their parents survived war and financial uncertainty. So it was more about like, let's survive. Let's do what we can. Less about like pleasure, more about let's just make to another day, you know? So there's less of a reflection.

30:35And not to say that all boomers are this way, because there are some boomers who are very in touch with their psychological status and are insightful. But largely what the Pew Research shows is that they were, you know, in survival mode about like, you know, producing and saving, you know, for the next generation. Gen X, they were raised in like, you know, capitalist boom, all about like the shoulder pads and the nice cars and the wealth. And like, it was the first time there was a cell phone that you could put in your car, right? Stocks and bonds and so forth. So it was really about accumulation and less about reflection, but more about individualistic ideas.

31:16Like I want to take care of me. I want to thrive. Whereas millennials, well, we're the first to have the internet, You know, we're the first to have access to information. So there's this reflection, this psychological insight that started happening with our generation. And we were mounted with student loan debt. Like we didn't have the freedom that Gen X had. On top of it, we were entering the workplace as women, right? And we were not being offered leadership positions, but we couldn't slow down because we had to pay off our loans. And then we delayed having children because, you know, we can't afford them.

31:59But then we run into fertility issues. So it's a very daunting, I think, generation because we were faced with a lot of problems that the people before us didn't have. And we're faced with the internet, the nonstop access to bad news, but also access to information, right? And I feel like Gen Z, they, you know, face this other issue. They're digital natives and they've always had a phone. They've always had access to information. So they can't turn it off. And partially that's a bad thing because, you know, they feel as if they're constantly traumatized. They're getting that tertiary trauma. But it's a good thing because they have more access to people within their generation.

32:39And so they tend to not see differences the way that other generations did. Like they don't really, when they date, they tend to date across races, across religions. They're more accepting. And for them, it's more about, well, I don't want to just be happy on my own. I want my whole community, my tribe to come with me. So there are positive and negative experiences in each generation. But I do think that millennials were hit hard with like the you should want to have it all, but you really can't. Yeah, I know. I've had to like reprogram that.

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35:41Go to absorbmore.com. Use the code ALMOST30 for 35%. And also, I think, you know, we want it all now. You know, there's that like immediacy that we crave and we forget that hopefully life is long, you know, and it doesn't all have to happen in your 30s or 20s, you know, whatever the belief is. Yeah, I'm curious about, you know, I was explaining to you kind of our core demo, you know, transitioning from their 20s to their 30s. And people have been with us throughout our life of almost 30. So they're in their mid 30s ish. And I'm curious what you've seen around that time, that late 20s transition.

36:28So we kind of like look to the astrological aspect of Saturn return, where a lot of things in your life kind of come into focus that might not be aligned and you kind of have to like look at a lot of pieces of your life and reevaluate. So I guess as a therapist, as a psychiatrist, do you feel like there is something happening pretty consistently around that time? Yes. I do think that there is this pressure and shame to check boxes. That's been consistently as people approach 30. And, you know, it forces people to make the wrong decision. And I've seen this. And in therapy, it's interesting because you're not allowed to like, be like, that guy is such a jerk.

37:16Like, what are you doing? Yeah, totally. In your mind, you can say that. But when they finally break up, you're like, yes, you can't show that either. You're like, oh, okay, let's get you through that. But, you know, it's so... You can't say told you so?

37:32you bet to the best friend got it okay yes but like you know i see it all the time i see really terrific people and terrible jobs and terrible friendships and terrible relationships because it's pressure to have this picture of happy and i i try to help my clients reframe what happiness is because what i what i tell them is happiness is an idea and joy is an experience and when they When you can grasp that, I think it really shifts things. So when you think of happiness, a lot of people will say, oh, happiness is when I finally finish grad school or get that job or have the partner or have the baby, have the family, right?

38:12But joy is like, when I was lonely today, did I connect with a loved one? When I was tired, did I get a rest? When I was thirsty, did that drink quench me? You know, it's these experiences that in research, when we add up the points, that makes joy, right? So if happiness is a state and you may never get to that state, then for many people, they may never be happy, right? They're searching for something. And the research shows us that when people chase something and they think, oh, I'll be happy when? They end up not being happy even when the when happens, right? Then it's on to another one. So try to incorporate your joy today.

38:51So when I reframe that with people who are very goal oriented, like, you know, by 30, I want this and then I want to pay off my loans and this. I'm just like, well, what did you do today to increase your joy? And if you think about it, okay, yesterday I only got one point, but today I'm going to try to get two points and maybe tomorrow I'll get three points. It's a shift. Then it's like, yeah, I did obtain a goal. I did make it to that goalpost. And I do feel as if this is possible, right? and tomorrow's not promised. So if you are delaying happiness for something that's happening in the future, that may never happen.

39:28It's not promised to any of us. Yeah. I really relate to, I feel like I had that in my twenties where I just had these like grand goals and like I was putting off my happiness until those were achieved or I got, or I found my person, you know, and I think motherhood has actually helped me to find joy and just like literally hour by hour. Yes. Because you kind of have to be so present. Things change on a dime. And it's helped me so much to really just, I think it's almost like zooming in to zoom out is kind of how I'm seeing it where you zoom in the moment by moment, but it helps you to kind of have perspective on like what's really important actually, what's like really bringing me joy.

40:17I didn't realize that, you know, taking five minutes to make my own coffee and sit down and look out my window is actually something that brings me a lot of joy. I didn't even give myself the chance to experience that before, you know? Yeah. So I'm glad you brought that up. And one thing I wanted to talk about, because our audience is so inclined to explore their spirituality, so we're pivoting just a smidge, I find that, you know, leaning into whether it's spiritual practices or just like letting my curiosity kind of lead me in that direction has brought me a lot of joy or levity. or just helps me to have a bit more perspective rather than being so in the mind and just kind of analyzing myself in my life.

41:10And I'm curious your thoughts on spirituality being a way, another way to distract, another way to spiral, to become obsessed, to not actually look at the thing that needs to be looked at. Because I've had maybe in my life once or twice, but I've had many friends who have found spirituality in their own way and it's become destructive, you know, and almost like feeding the beast. I don't know what to call it, but yeah, it's just a really interesting time we're living in where spirituality is such a thing. It's so like such a trendy thing in a lot of ways. Shouldn't be. But I agree with that. I mean, I, so my, my, my father is a pastor.

42:02I grew up in a, in a very spiritual church and, um, and I ended up studying when I went to Duke for undergrad, I studied religion and chemistry and biology, like doesn't go well together at all. I like the balance though, to be honest. But the reason I did that was because I used to believe that, you know, you had to choose one or the other. And now I know that two things can be true. But what's interesting about spirituality is that, so there's something called, you know, faith and then ritual. So many people, when they become spiritual, they confuse the experience, right? You know how I said joy is the experience and then the idea is happiness.

42:46They confuse spirituality with ritual. And so they get distracted. And in their minds, if they stick to this idea and they do these things, they are being spiritual, but they're not because they're not being present. They're getting caught up in ritual and the things. And it's really superficial. It's about sticking to a practice because for some of them, they haven't completed anything else in life. This is the one thing that they can complete. So it's also become a goal. It's become that idea of happiness for them. And they're not really tapping into it for purpose. They may be overindulging in the ritual to avoid, right?

43:29So that's their form of overworking. You know, I've seen this with a lot of people who just manifest till the day is over. And it's like, well, what has changed? But boy, they know how to manifest. So I think anything has the potential for that. When you think about artists, and I've worked with artists, they can either be in that movement when they dance or they're just hitting each mark perfectly, right? And, you know, we can enjoy things, we can experience things, or we can just have an idea of it. And I want you to really challenge yourself there. The same with parenthood. You know, I treat children to adults, to elders.

44:14And when you're a child therapist, very often you have to meet with the parent. And I see the parent who's like, I just want to be a good parent. But it's the idea, right? So they're doing all the things, but their kid has no idea who they are. Their kid doesn't feel seen. There's no connection because they don't realize that you don't have to be perfect. In fact, all the experts will say, don't be perfect, right? It's about connection. It's about experiencing parenthood, not being the perfect parent. And that shift is, people need reminders about that. That's why Therapy isn't just one session and you're healed, right?

44:49It's so easy to fall into that pattern of doing, right? You're a human doing instead of a human being. Instead of being that parent, connecting and attaching and, you know, going through it together, you're just performing. But in your idea, that's what a good parent is, right? So the same thing can happen with spirituality. Yeah, it's, yeah, I love the way you describe that, the ritual. because I think it's really easy to become or to continue to be busy. And now we have that layer of like showing people through social media or whatnot. So it's like, I'm meditating, I'm doing all this. And then our image of ourself is like kind of reflected back to us, but it's not really real and it's not really the experience of it.

45:39It's the idea of it's really such a trippy, It's such a trippy thing. As a therapist, I guess, what do you recommend to your patients who you find are negatively impacted by social media? Like, what do you recommend? What are you seeing? Because I think a lot of us are experiencing that, but like cannot look away and cannot disconnect. Yeah, it's really difficult. I mean, so I can identify with the experience versus the idea throughout my life. You know, like when you're high functioning, you don't just go back to regular. It's always a journey, right? What you learn, but then you realize you fall back.

46:28And so a regular practice for me, not just with my clients, is to do a check-in where I'm like, am I experiencing or am I idealizing? And I have to do this all the time. Like even with socials, when I first started with my students, I was like, well, this has to be perfect and this has to be evidence-based and I got to write the right captions. And I was like, well, this is no longer fun. You know, like if I'm overthinking it like this, then it's no longer me experiencing joy trying to educate. It's me having this idea of perfection. So I had to shut it down. But I go through those phases as well.

47:04So if I'm going, I'm able to therapize myself sometimes. I'm in therapy too. But like if I go through this, then imagine what an adolescent goes through, a young adult goes through, right? And so you have to continue checking in with yourself. You really do have to ask yourself simple things like, am I experiencing life or am I living towards or working towards an idea, an ideal? And so check in with yourself that way. I used to be that parent who was like, I got to put my kid in the ballet, the swim, the piano, this, that, and have to show up. But then my kid was like, wait a second, this sucks.

47:39Like, I don't get to see you. Like, my schedule is just tired. I remember one day my daughter when she was seven, she was like, mommy, I am tired. And I was like, you know what? I'm tired too. We just stayed home. We skipped it. I was like, sorry, something came up. But you know, you're constantly learning from people around you. Even in my lab, my lab, my team would be like, you know, we're killing it. You know, we're getting all the studies, but we are burnt out. And it's like, oh, wow. So then no more studies, you know, like listen to your environment because this high functioning behavior is contagious.

48:11And the way that joy is contagious, this high functioning, overworking, overdoing, working towards ideals and not experiencing, that's contagious too. Yeah. I want to talk about, you mentioned check-in just now, but you also describe various check-ins that we can do, the physical check-in amongst others that I want to talk about. because this is something I try to do just checking in on my like the vitals, which you describe in the book, but it's been so helpful because as a mom, like I am no longer very aware of like, when was the last time I had a sip of water? Like, did I eat lunch today? Like my brain is just not quite back yet to be functioning on all cylinders for everyone.

49:07So especially myself. So can we talk about those vital checks? Yes. Yeah. So, you know, your doctor will tell you, make sure you're sleeping, make sure you're moving, eating things that are healthy for your brain and body, right? These are all important. And I go through all of those things because sleep is necessary for cleaning out, you know, these things that build up in your brain that impair your thinking. It's important for mood, for just about everything, for your immune system. And then movement is so important. And not everyone likes to exercise. You know, I say that any movement, as long as it feels authentic to you, is healthy.

49:46And so I'm from a Caribbean background. So we have something called Carnival every year in Trinidad. And you see people moving and whining. And, you know, there are some early studies that are showing that that movement side to side actually is a form of bilateral stimulation. So that's why it feels so good. Yeah. You know, you see the people booty dancing on shows. I know, but it feels good, right? Yeah, totally. And then, you know, I introduced new vitals in there, not just the typical, you know, food. With food is very important, you know, the processed foods. We know what that does to our body and inflammation.

50:19But, you know, technology, that's a vital that we don't really pay attention to, at least we did it in the past, I truly believe that in the future, there's going to be a section of the DSM-5 dedicated to tech use and how it impacts our mental health. But we're not designed to be looking at screens when we're all day long. We're just not designed to be standing or sitting in one place. And there's a whole center called the Stanford Zoom Fatigue Center, where they look at the impact that Zoom has on your brain. And what they found is that when you're looking at yourself as you're talking to yourself, it's so unnatural.

50:59Totally. That it actually makes people anxious. Cause I know like if I, cause I draw my eyebrows, I have very little eyebrows. I'm always like, wait, did I draw that right? Like I'm distracted. You're like, what did you just say? Sorry. Oh my gosh. That is so real. Sometimes Kristen and I will take off our own camera thing, like in our purview, because it, it can, you're just staring at yourself literally. Literally, you don't even realize it. Yeah. So when I give talks to corporations, I'm like, you know, older generations are like, oh, it's very rude to turn the camera off. I was like, actually, no.

51:30Yeah. It is mentally draining to look at your own face that much. So you should encourage this because the younger generation is like, I'm not going to go on camera. Yes. And there's this disconnect between the generations. Like, that's so rude. I would never do that in my day. And it's like, actually, they're right. You know, we all need a break from looking at ourselves. It's not healthy. and also just the fact that we have our phones with us at all times. What makes a drug addictive is how immersive it is, how seamless it is to access it, and how accessible it is. And social media is all those things.

52:05We always have access to it. It's so easy to get immersed in it. It's so seamless now because of the internet. And recently there was a study that came out that, and they took adults away from seamless internet, meaning they had like these phones that were not smartphones. They were like, you know, the flip phones. They were actually happier. Like the amount of improvement in their mood was similar to what you would see with an antidepressant. So being on these screens all day is literally robbing us of our joy because we're not engaging in things that where we get dopamine in many ways, right?

52:38You're getting dopamine one way on a screen, but when you're out in nature, getting it in a multidimensional way, when you're talking to someone in person and not looking at a screen, you're getting this hormone increase and biochemistry that's happening when you're in person with someone. So we're robbing ourselves of natural, whole joy when we're on our screens all the time. And then the last one or the last two in my vitals are work-life balance, which kind of feeds into tech and also relationships. And no one pulls aside and teaches us how to love. Like they just don't. We just follow what our parents do and then we repeat.

53:14No one teaches us how to be a good friend, how to weed out toxic individuals. But having toxic people in your life, it is draining to your life source. And being lonely and not having good connections is the equivalent of like smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. So really pay attention to the quality of your relationships. What are you seeing as like some patterns or common just ways people are just feeling a little bit disconnected in their relationships at this point? Well, the anhedonia is big. One of the symptoms on my anhedonia rating scale on my website is when you're intimate with your partner, you're just kind of can't wait to get it over with.

53:57You know, like that's something that whenever I say that in a conference, people start laughing because they're like, oh, I know what that is like. Like, you know, the other one is like, you can't really, you don't want to be around people anymore. Like you're getting annoyed when you're with people. You'd rather just be home, you know, binge watching TV. And also, you know, one of the risk factors for high functioning depression that I found is something called masochism, which is a term that was taken out of the DSM, which is the Bible of psychiatry. and they took it out in the 80s because before they used to label a lot of women as being masochists if they incited violence on themselves so it's a victim blaming thing right so masochists were labeled as people who self-sabotaged who bend over backwards but also incited other people to treat them poorly so there's there's good reason for it to be taken out masochistic personality disorder, but there are still masochistic traits.

54:50And now we call them people pleasing, right? And, you know, if you find yourself constantly sacrificing your happiness for others, feeling unworthy of enjoying praise, feeling unworthy of enjoying things that you worked for, you know, like not acknowledging that you deserve better, these set you up, you know, for high functioning depression, because you're essentially overworking, letting people walk all over you, you know, delaying your own happiness. And it could be related to trauma because we know that people who have unprocessed trauma feel as if they don't, they're not good enough. They internalize shame and blame, but it could be related to other experiences in life, you know?

55:35So that's why it's important to not just know the signs of high functioning depression, but understand what possibly contributed to it. Because when we know, when humans need to know, When we don't know what's causing something, when there's uncertainty, we're anxious, we're afraid, and we act out. We act in ways that don't necessarily serve us. So knowing the potential causes is so powerful. And is this chronic? Like, will this have the potential to always come up? or is it something that if you're aware of it and read this book and just really give time and attention to it and take it seriously could be gone?

56:19It's a work in progress, you know, because when you have developed a certain pattern in life and a certain way of behaving, that stays with you. And if you're not constantly doing the work, you're going to fall back into the patterns. And that's why I put the very simple five V's in there so that it's easy to remember. Most of us have five fingers, some of us don't, and that's okay. But I use five because I think about it as like we all have the DNA for joy. And if you do one of these five a day, you don't have to do more than one or two because that's overwhelming, then you can access joy. It's within reach.

56:57So validate, that's the first V. Validate how you're feeling. Accept how you're feeling. Don't just say, oh, I'm fine. You know, how are you? Say things like, I'm burnt out. I'm depressed. You know, I'm feeling lonely, frustrated. Accept and acknowledge how you feel because people with high-functioning depression, they push it down. They don't want to feel. But if you don't feel, how can you heal and process, right? And the second is venting. So how do you express your feelings? For some, it's talking, you know but if people aren't comfortable with talking prayer writing in a journal singing painting however you want to express it whatever feels authentic to you the third is values and I call these things that are priceless not with price tags you know we always chase these things but at the end of the day you're not going to be like I want a Birkin on my deathbed you know you're going to be like I wish I had done things with the people that I loved and I wish I had supported more causes I felt strongly about, or I wish I'd spent more time in nature, things like that.

58:00Things that give your life meaning and purpose, not things with price tags. And then the vitals we talked about, tapping into those every day. And then the fifth is vision. So we don't tend to plan our joy. We're constantly onto the next, right? We get our kid to school and then we're onto the next task. But like you do, sit and enjoy your coffee, right? Sit and enjoy your beverage, give yourself a pat on the back. Say, I did that today. You know, like, let me savor these small moments. And then, you know, things that require celebration, try to plan them. You know, we want to have things to look forward to so that we don't get stuck in the past.

58:36And that's the fifth via's vision.

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1:01:31The values. I feel like any time I'm asked to like share my values, I'm like, I have them. And also, how would you guide someone in just getting clear about their values? Many times people don't even remember what lit them up or what gave them purpose because their trauma buried their memories, right? So in some of my clients, their background's so like hazy. They're like, well, I don't remember. So we try to work back to that time when they were at whatever age it was that they used to have, you know, passions and purpose. And we try to figure out what happened around that time. Was it like, you know, someone bullied you or did your parents go through a divorce or was there a death?

1:02:16Was something traumatizing there? And then many times we can find that, right? And then we start tapping into that slowly. So, for example, you know, there was a client I worked with who she used to like to go camping with her family and then they got a divorce and then she didn't want to go camping anymore. But she was living in a big city. She had it all. You know, she had things with the price tags, but she didn't feel a sense of purpose. So we tapped back into that memory and she realized that, oh, I really haven't been spending time in nature. And so slowly we would, you know, work on her getting out to the park or, you know, doing more things with nature, buying plants.

1:02:52And then she found that like slowly every day she was getting points of joy by having some interaction with nature, right? She wasn't all cured, but like it was something she could tap into. With other people, I have to use more concrete type of exercises, especially if they can't access those early memories. So we may look at pictures of famous people together or public figures and then they, you know, pull out the ones that they admire. And then I ask them to talk about each person. What is it that you admired, right? So if it's someone like Maya Angelou, they're like, you know, she was a survivor and she wrote beautiful words of encouragement.

1:03:28So I'm like, oh, so you value inspiration, right? Was there ever a time maybe that you felt inspired or you inspired others? So we try to use these creative ways to tap into what gives your life meaning and purpose. Because when you are so busy and you don't reflect, sometimes you need like these very concrete methods. And I know not everyone has a therapist, right? There's only one psychiatrist for every 30 ,000 people in certain parts of the country. So I wanted to put tools in the book that people could potentially tap into, you know, when they're working with their coach or whoever it is they work with.

1:04:03So they have these concrete tools so that they could tap into the five E's if it doesn't come automatically to them. Super powerful. The feel to heal triangle. I guess what's the more professional way of saying that? Yeah, it's the cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah, there you go. Can we talk about that? Because I think, you know, it's I don't know if it's kind of the self-development speak of like you got to feel it to heal it. And I think I don't know if people actually know what that looks like or what that means. And I think at least in my experience, I've been kind of overwhelmed by my feelings a lot of the time.

1:04:46and they just take me on a ride. And I'm like, I don't know where this is taking me. And it's kind of confusing. So can you walk me through that? Yeah. So the cognitive behavioral therapy triangle typically looks like the thought is at the top and it's this thought that you have, and it could be a thought of like, you know, I'm not good enough. Right. And then that thought of I'm not good enough, that stems from this core belief of being unworthy, leads to feeling shame or sadness or anger, whatever it is that you feel related to that thought. And then that may lead to behavior. So let's say if you feel like you're not good enough and there's shame, then you may withdraw, right?

1:05:32That's your behavior. Or if you're feeling frustrated, then that may lead to behavior of like lashing out, you know? So the thought feeling behavior triangle is the classic model. But what they found, the researchers in CBT, was that sometimes we spend so much time on our thoughts. And if you're a particularly anxious person or like a control freak or you ruminate, then it's not healthy to spend time on the thoughts. You end up thinking more instead feeling, right? And again, people with high functioning, they tend to overdo, overwork, and not feel. So for people who have a hard time accessing feelings, I told them to flip that triangle on its side and try and tap into the feelings.

1:06:20And so in my book, I present a bunch of feelings because again, sometimes people need concrete examples, especially if I'm working with the neurodivergent folks who need that visual aid to identify their feeling and to really understand the nuances of feelings, right? Because many people who don't take the time to acknowledge feelings, they have something called alexithymia where they don't know how to describe their feelings. It's very like black or white. Oh, I'm sad or happy. There's like nothing in between. So tap into the nuances of your feelings, right? And try to go from there. Start to feel and accept how you feel and then see how it changes your thinking.

1:07:00And there's a new field called metacognitive therapy where instead of us trying to change the thought, so like in CBT, the classic model, you try to change the thought. Well, okay, what's the argument that you are unworthy or what's the argument that you aren't unworthy? And so you're being like this little lawyer in your head and you're, you know, setting this thought on trial. That's how I explain to my patients. rather than spending so much time trying to change the thought, let's let that thought sit there and just go through the feelings, right? So you're acknowledging the thought is there and you're not trying to change it and you're just, your two things are true.

1:07:34The thought is there, but I'm just going to be present in what I'm doing right now, not trying to change that thought. And for some people, that's very powerful to like, okay, that thought of being unworthy is there, but I'm still going to continue, you know, reading my book or I'm still going to continue eating my meal and I'm going to go through the feelings of it and it's going to go away. Versus if I tried to change that thought, I'm actually getting more dysregulated. You know, I'm actually getting more frustrated. And so for some people that could be very powerful. So that's why, you know, I say like understand the science of your happiness because there's so many ways to go about one problem because that one problem is so different for each of us.

1:08:14Yes. Yes. The individuality, I think, is something I've been thinking about lately where, you know, we're kind of like, quote, prescribed things online where like we can see someone talking about it and be like, hmm, maybe that's me, maybe that's not. But we kind of jump to the universally prescribed solution and it might not be for us. And then we get more frustrated and then we feel like we're, you know, we can't be healed or whatever the thought or story is. So I love this approach to people's individuality. Um, do you feel like you are seeing more of this high functioning depression now than ever?

1:09:02I do. And I think what's happening is that, you know, we didn't process what happened in 2020. And it's frankly just been like bad news after the next, you know, it's like a wave. I describe it as like a wave of like, okay, we had 2020 and then we're told not to be around people. Then we're told people were safe. Then we're told they were not safe again. And then there were these police brutality and political uprising and wars and then political instability. It's just like, well, what's next? So we're just kind of pushing through it. We've become so numb, just from not processing trauma because it's just been so much of it.

1:09:39And we're numb because there's just too much access to information. We're always on our phones. So there's many ways to be numb these days. And I think that people are just like getting by. And that's why it's so pervasive. So tapping into yourself as a human being and understand the science of your happiness is so important. Like you said, many of us will like see a catchy meme or a video and be like, oh, that sounds good. And we try and we're like, oh, that didn't work. You know, maybe something's wrong with me. But no, it's because you were applying a tool without understanding the science of your happiness.

1:10:12So what were you aiming the tool at? You were just aiming it in the dark. first get to know you based on these principles, right?

1:10:23And then start to do the work. And it's okay if it's not quick. It's all about the points, right? Those little points every day, you know, not the idea, but the experience. Yeah, this is profound. And I think a lot of people are nodding their heads off. And people are absolutely not alone. You know, I have absolutely felt this in my life in different seasons. And I think I felt a lot of like shame around it or denial around it at times. And it's just always been easier for me to just keep on plugging along knowing that it'll probably get a little bit better at certain points. But I just really appreciate this book, this approach, this, yeah, recognition of the individuality and

1:11:18the embracing of the process of it, not just the quick fix and just the diagnosis. And then here's the step-by-step. It's really like, who are you? What do you need? What's specific to you? So amazing. Thank you so much. This book is much needed, much needed. What is your hope? for this book, the life of this book and how it reaches people. Well, thank you for having me. It was so much fun. So fun. I would say that, you know, given your audience is mostly women, like women are twice as likely to have depression and anxiety than men. So like, it's not just you. You didn't do anything wrong. You know, think about your biopsychosocial.

1:11:58Biologically, we have estrogen and progesterone going up and down throughout our lives. When we go through our first puberty, when we go through postpartum, when we go through perimenopause, those are vulnerable pockets. 80 % of women experience sadness, the blues, right? That's a lot. But then we're told we're supposed to be happy when we have a baby, right? Perimenopause, for many of us, starts in our 30s. Wow. And we don't even know what's happening. We're like, oh, I guess I'm just old. I can't hang anymore. No, that's perimenopause. Your sleep isn't going to be as deep. You don't have the endurance, right?

1:12:33hormones are real. So like, that's why I want people to understand the science of their happiness because the science of a woman's happiness is going to be different than a man's happiness, right? Depression symptoms may look identical, but the science behind it is different. So you're going to take better care of yourself when you're going through perimenopause. You're going to take better care of yourself when you're approaching your period, right? You're going to be more compassionate towards yourself and not like overwork yourself when you're going through these very vulnerable pockets of your life, right?

1:13:00And I hope that people start to be kinder to themselves and modify their lives and how they approach life and living when they fully understand their own science. Yeah. Modifying life. Yeah, man. Just thinking about postpartum and just how real that is. Oh, yeah. It was real. And I just stopped breastfeeding and that little pocket, you know. It's a roller coaster. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm glad you said that about the stats with women because, yeah, if I'm thinking about the men in my life, I'm like, there's a stability to a lot of people that I'm like, how? How'd you get that? Yeah, that's really good.

1:13:43But once a month we go through, you know. Yes, yes, of course. A roller coaster. And we just like, everybody does it. All women go through it. You know, it's like, just get over it. No, like for some of us, it's very painful. Yes. And the world is not set up to, the workplace isn't set up. The world is not set up to support that cycle. And men have that 24 hour cycle that the world's like, yeah, we got you. No problem. Go home at 5 p.m. It's like, yeah, it's pretty wild. Well, this has been so enlightening, so important. I appreciate you. You're so, I just, I love listening to you. I think you bring a lot of humanness to this topic.

1:14:25I think sometimes it's a scary topic and a clinical topic to dive into, but there's so much humanness. So thank you. Yeah. It is a human experience. Yeah. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you all for listening. We'll see you on the next one. Bye.

1:14:42Thank you, Dr. Judith Joseph. The book is high functioning. You can get it anywhere books are sold. Thank you so much for listening to Almost 30. Topics like these, you know, are really important that we talk about. Um, there are a lot of just really amazing, successful, beautiful people in our audience who, um, really deserve that, that deep joy. You know, I think we are all, most of us coming out of the boss babe era. So I can imagine like the trickle down effect is some of this, you know, high functioning depression experience, but there is a way. There is a way. I'll get you guys posted with my own diagnosis.

1:15:21I love y 'all so much. I see you later. Bye. Thank you.