790. The Dating Advice No One’s Actually Giving You with Case Kenny

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29:27They absolutely are. We're human beings. We're relational beings. But yeah, I love the perspective of just kind of opening up the aperture to light. There's so many things around us that we can find love for and find the beauty in. And it literally kind of like trains yourselves to like recognize it. So when I was single for such a long time, I was like, I had to do just this, understand what in my life did I really love? Why did I love it? And then it almost like helped to train me when people would come in and I would date. And then eventually my husband came in to actually recognize what that feels like, rather than like, I think this might be the one or not sure.

30:10I'm thinking of like, kind of all the external things that I think I should believe about love. Rather, I'd like really felt into what does love mean for me? Yeah. And that's the most important step. Because if you skip that, how do you know if that partner is right for you or not? Like the whole thesis of the book and like my whole ethos of relationships is the lens that you need to look through is, does this person make me feel like more of myself? That's the question, right? And it then begs the question of, do you know yourself? And if you've always been dating to be liked and validated, and because that's what you do, and because you want to have kids and because you want to start a family, you've likely skipped that stuff.

30:51The most important lens to be able to look at this person and say, is this person right for me or not? It has to go beyond like, do we get along? You know, do we laugh together? Important things that are maybe symptoms of them seeing you. But if you don't know yourself, how do you know if they amplify that sense of self? Like in the book, I referenced the work of James Hillman, The Soul's Code, which he talks about your essence. Like we all have an essence about us. This is a thing in us that was there from the day we were born. It's something that might make us feel weird or too passionate or too intense or quirky or an outsider.

31:26There's something about each one of us, not pandering with a statement like that, but there's something about each one of us that's got a spark to it, a little bit of pop and pizzazz. And we work a lot in life to bury it and dim it in light of being liked instead of being seen. and he likens it to the idea of like, it's an acorn inside all of us and you plant the acorn and you could hope that it'll become a banana tree, but it won't. It needs to become an oak tree. And eventually you will realize that in life, hopefully sooner rather than later. And it's your job to step into that essence sooner so that you could say, does this person amplify that essence?

32:01But like, what is the essence? I mean, that becomes the question and that work kind of has to be done on your own independently. And the amazing thing about your person is they will certainly help bring out the final form of that. I talk about that in the book, the idea of chiseling away. And I call it the, it's called the Michelangelo phenomenon about how it brings out the final form of your ideal self, your ideal essence. But we had to start there, like cart and horse type conversation. Definitely. What was your definition or idea of love that you kind of were bringing to this work when you first started?

32:40That's a good question. Yeah. I mean, it was probably more along the lines of like, it's just something you do. Like it's the expectation. And I think that's why like a lot of my aversion to commitment was within the context of losing my independence. Yeah. I think that's so many men and women. It's a classic male. Classic. I'm a tortured man type. It's crazy. Don't tie me down. I can't do this. I have to get on my horse and explore the West. But I genuinely had that attitude. And chapter one of the book is about how the right person enhances your independence. And I referenced the idea of the dependency paradox and child rearing and upbringing with your child, that the closer your relationship is with your child, generally speaking, the more independent the child's willing to be because they know that mama's got their back.

33:30Dad has their back, right? It's, you know, biologically almost baked in. But I always thought that when I came across that, I was like, well, shouldn't that be the case with a relationship that not codependence, but the healthy kind of dependence that when you know your partner, you're that close with each other, that you should have independent interests, independent hobbies, independent essences. And that's the beauty of life. And I'm lucky to have found that with my partner and my girlfriend of the way that we are quite independent, literally with kind of, she's a DJ, right? And like, we're just independent creatively, but also soulfully.

34:05And just like, it's a beautiful thing that made me realize that my entire thinking in my twenties was wrong. And, you know, I think it's, it's tough. It requires a lot of vulnerability on both halves because I think a lot of people nowadays see independence and they're like, whoa, something's wrong with the relationship. Why is he out at dinner and she's doing this or she's in Vegas and he's like, whoa, it's like, what's going on here? So it's, it's, I think requires some rewiring of this social aversion to independence. So I've, that was probably operated from that a lot in my twenties and use that as rationale for repeatedly starting over and just like letting relationships die.

34:44I think that was my kind of classic MO of like not wanting to hurt her feelings. So just like, yeah, let it fizzle, which is embarrassing in retrospect, but probably came from that belief. Yeah. And it's also just on that point, you know, when you don't lean in, in those moments of like, I think either this is not working or we could actually improve this. It requires you to be very honest with yourself, very honest with the other person, have the language. And so a lot of people don't have that or don't want to do that or think it's just too much in the moment. It's very like it can be overstimulating, I think, to people who have been avoidant.

35:27But, um, it's really great practice for when you're in the relationship that hopefully will, will last a long time because that happens all the time and it actually strengthens, you know, your connection. Um, I was, I was going to kind of add onto this conversation around kind of that avoidant, anxious attachment style that seems to happen a lot with men and women and typically being the avoidant, but I know that is not true across the board, but where, you know, I think women, very generally speaking, I'll speak for myself. I, I felt like I was just chasing after the feeling and the feeling of being validated.

36:21and I was not actually taking in the behavior in front of me and how they were making me feel, even though I was chasing the feeling. So when their behavior was making me feel terrible, I was not registering it as actually, this is not healthy and this is not my person. Like let's, let's pivot or move on. I was almost idealistic and like just wanting to almost like change them and fix it so that it could become that. Do you find that a lot where people go into relationship wanting to change the person in order to kind of fit their ideals, even though it's like totally not a match? Yeah. I think that's human nature.

37:04Like we want the potential so bad that we're willing to sit in the muck and we want to earn it in a sense. And, you know, we've confused We've used a lot of concepts, namely like sacrifice and compromise, which are fully required of you in a relationship. But we skirt the line so much so between compromise and like self-betrayal that it becomes conversations like that. Likely because to your point, it does become a chicken and egg conversation around the feeling and the choice. Right. Like many smarter people than me have said that love isn't just a feeling. It's a choice. It's a behavior. It's the small things that make you feel a certain way.

37:40But the chase of feeling inevitably sets you up to fail. It's like I always talk like my goal in life is not to be happy because that is a crumbling foundation on a house. There's so many things that will make you unhappy that are out of your control. So to make that your north star of, you know, am I happy or not? Is life good or not? Is inevitably it's not going to be. And then you just devolve. So, yeah, I mean, I think the relationship has to be looked at through the lens of choices and behaviors. And then looking back, I mean, I think the most powerful thing we have are our past relationships, what we learned and specifically the promises we made from them.

38:20And then to say in this moment with the way that I'm compromising, is this the opposite of what I promised myself I wouldn't do again in the future? Like that has to be the barometer for self-betrayal, the line between those two things. And yeah, I think it's obviously nuanced and depends on the scenario to say like, yes, this person, you know, maybe does need some time. And I think, you know, to your point about tough conversations, I think one of the most essential conversations to have that a lot of people don't have because it seems like if you have to have this conversation, then the relationship is flawed at a fundamental level, which I don't believe is true.

38:58And it comes from the idea that, like, when you enter into a relationship with someone, they are trying their best to love you in a way that makes you feel loved. Right. And because you have that connection, they're genuinely trying to do it. But most people operate from the love that they want to receive. And so they give you that love. They give you the love that their former partner liked to receive. So we're talking about love languages, gift giving, the things that I like to receive, I give to you, hoping it's what you want to receive. The love I give to you is the love that my ex received and she liked it.

39:27Fantastic. More often than not, it's not going to land with you, but you recognize the effort and you know, you see that I do want to make you feel loved, but I'm missing the mark. For you to have a conversation with me and say, I know you love me, but I don't feel loved by you. What an emotional conversation that seems so selfish. It seems so selfish to say that. But I think the healthiest relationship is built on the back of a conversation like that. Your willingness to say that and not throw the relationship out because you have to say it. And then his or hers response to it and say, okay, well, then tell me how you want to be loved.

40:04Tell me what makes you feel loved and to have the ego removed from it and then have your ego removed from it in a way that isn't like, well, I shouldn't have to tell him. And then if he's doing it, he's just doing it to appease me. Like a lot of this little conversations, I think the context of a conversation like that is everything. And I feel like we don't get there or people don't even have the self-awareness to know that this doesn't make me feel loved. Like I should feel loved by this. You know, he's, he's given me gifts and quality time, but like to actually sit and say, well, it makes me feel loved.

40:37It goes back to the conversation of the essence. So I think all in all, like we have to be willing to sit in that on both sides and not be threatened by a conversation like that. Yeah. Being in, in relationship is so much about like taking the ego and being like you over here right now, like we are, you know, where you truly listen, you truly kind of, um, You're not listening to like just react in a moment. You're listening to truly feel into, okay, maybe I've been missing something or maybe, you know, maybe this is kind of bringing up something that I've, I've experienced in the past and I really haven't like tended to it or, you know, done it a different way.

41:19It's, yeah, it's removing the ego in so many ways. Um, yeah, I love the love languages example. Um, and just being willing to have that hard conversation. And, um, we talked about this a little bit on the podcast, just kind of that, the, the mark of a conscious, let's call it conscious relationship. We talk about that a little bit where a conscious relationship isn't going to be the relationship. That's like, wow, everything is just smooth, perfect. There should be that level of peace and feeling of home, I believe. And it's also going to be a safe place for like a lot of learning and challenges, you know, and within that container, you're able to, to work through them.

42:11Um, have you had, I'm curious just about your own personal experience with finding and being in a relationship where you feel like it is really rooted in being yourselves and feeling secure and safe with one another. But did you have like that kind of tipping point moment of like, oh, wow, this is like what it's really like to be in a relationship like this? Oh, for sure. Well, I would say two things. For one, off the piggyback of the love languages, like I when my girlfriend and I first started dating like three years ago, I would always to show my love for her. I would always give her books because to me, it's a very personal, I see you thing.

42:55Totally. And I just kept giving her books and books and books. And then one day she was like, yo, stop giving me books. She's like, I can't read it. She was like, yeah. I was like, what is it? It was so funny. But it was in that moment where I was like, whoa, like that was like more honest than anyone has ever been with me. And it was a very eye opening, like, whoa, like this is really cool. Like we could have this conversation and I'm not, I wasn't offended by that. I feel like younger case would have been like, well, you like that's crazy. Like I put so much effort into this. Like you take it.

43:24And I don't know. Maybe that was just like my growth. But like that was a big catalyst for me. And then I think also like with our relationship, it like really snapped my eyes open to the fact that like the purpose of life and the purpose of love is playfulness. And I really think we've lost sight of that plot. Like things are very serious. Totally. And everything is serious. The economy and politics and the world and people and everything is serious. And it should be, I suppose. But like love, I think, should be the one area that maintains its playfulness as best we can. And not only because that sounds like a nice thing, but like there's a lot of research and science around like what drives attraction and what makes resilient partnerships.

44:07and it is so much so around playfulness, shared and created humor, not just like laughing, like with my joke or your joke, it's like creating humor together, shared moments of these emotional bids for connection. Like that has to be the context of a relationship. And I think with Emily, my, my partner, it was like, wow, like, like I wrote it in the book. And then I was on a podcast with a comedian the other day and they were just like dunking on me for saying this, but I wrote in the book that we're silly gooses. He was like, you actually wrote that? Yeah, I did write that. But I mean, it's true.

44:41Like we don't like we take our love seriously and each other and our commitment, but like everything else is just through the lens of humor and playfulness. And then the last point to your question is like, I, you know, I think a lot on like words and language and like poetic expressions, but like the idea is like the love that you deserve is where you feel like you're coming home to yourself and someone else at the same time. This idea of home, safety, peace, vulnerability, playfulness, like that being the essence of a relationship, but it's both of those things. Again, back to yourself, you're coming home to yourself.

45:15You're not getting distant from yourself and you're coming home to someone else as well. Like, I think that's like a nice image of the environment where you could have these types of conversations where playfulness can flourish. Yes, totally. My My husband's definitely taught me a lot about playfulness. Nice. And in conflict too, where we can have a really like serious conversation where, you know, we do our thing. And also a few hours later, we can kind of be like bring humor into what we just talked about, meaning kind of bringing the like heaviness of it. Because sometimes I can be so judgmental or critical of what I'm dealing with or unable to really get.

45:59And I think he brings into the room just this like, you know, sometimes it is kind of silly. Like at the end of the day, like these are very human things and it's not to like, you know, lessen their importance. But it's also just like we're humans. It's all good. Like we can kind of move on and not feel like this is defining us for the next month. But that's a beautiful sentiment too, because that's a reflection of what I think allows for you to be playful, which is simplicity. Like a healthy relationship unlocks a level of simplicity that you just don't get in life without the right person. So like this is why relationships are important because suddenly you have this person where life is simpler in the sense of it's us.

46:43It's we. It's we make a decision together. Yes. We've got each other's back. like that kind of simplicity, I think it's not as much guessing and complication. Exactly. And when things are simple, things are funny. Yeah, a hundred percent. I have so many of my dear friends that are moving through pregnancy right now. I actually have three of my closest people in my life that are moving through pregnancy. And it's been so beautiful to see how intentional they've become about their body and the way they're choosing to support themselves the way they're choosing to nourish themselves lindsay as an example she truly is like doing like eating sardines eating like liver and so seeing her use ritual and just like support her body in the best way she knows how it has shown me how powerful and how great of a brand ritual is because i trust her so much she's reading every label all the time so you can really fully the trust Ritual for your brand to support you in your journey of pregnancy.

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49:39And like you're, if this is your person, you know, and you're together for a long time, it's like, I think humor also just like creates a momentum in the relationship where holding on to and not letting things go brings a heaviness and kind of a stuckness to it. And like the humor just injects kind of this like life and fluidity. Um, but I love that. Um, you mentioned this earlier, earlier, but I wanted to kind of pick it apart just a little bit more, especially for the girlies out there who are feeling like they are on their independent tip and men or, you know, the partner they are seeking need to kind of like live up to like where they're at.

50:27I think a lot of women in our audience feel like they are on their, you know, health game, spirituality, spiritual journey. They are like just up leveling, up leveling. Right. Um, and I, I believe many of them want to find someone who's like quote on their level. Can we, can we bring some like realness to this? Because I think sometimes, and I've done this in the past when I was dating, I set these expectations that no one's truly going to meet. So what would you recommend for someone who is like really feeling incredible single, doing the work on themselves, feeling like they want to attract someone at that level?

51:10Is that possible and what can we be very realistic about going into dating? I think it's absolutely possible. Um, you know, I'm not a big like gender war guy, but I, I don't think there's any denying that like men are increasingly falling behind in a sense. Like the, you know, women are more educated than men. Like they're like, there is a major shift as far as like what's, what's going on with men. And I'll leave that there. But I would say that for context, like it's a totally fair thing to be like, I am leveling up here and it doesn't seem like my potential partners are. I don't think that's filled with as much ego as some people think and say.

51:48I think that's a fine statement. I think where things get tricky is when you do have expectations that are aligned with very specific things that kind of cloud your judgment. So I have a chapter in a book where I talk about dating from expectation and dating from standards. And my whole pitch was don't, I say have no expectations, but high standards, not low expectations, because that's weird. No expectations. Expectations in the form of things like how fast the relationship should go, dare I say how tall someone should be, things like that, more like superficial timing, boxes-related expectations.

52:27Just from the observation, of course, that I think you talk to a lot of people and there's so much anecdotal evidence around the he wasn't my type, she wasn't my type. I thought this, but this is really what drew me in. So I think really try to remove yourself from the expectation game and lock yourself into the standard game. And standards should come from the way that you're uplifting and upgrading your life and operate from there. I think that's fine. And I would honestly leave it there because I think, of course, you can absolutely find someone on your level, but make sure the concept of level is is not grounded in ego of like well i'm making a hundred thousand so they need to be making this and that like yes okay well so i what i hear is ambition is important to you when we can look at ambition through the lens that isn't just measured by a number things like that and so i just yeah i just i hate people getting grasses greener syndrome based on expectations and based on like a little little push of the ego um so i think yeah it does require some reflection, but you absolutely can.

53:26And you know, my whole pitch is create a life you love and love will meet you there. Wishful thinking, perhaps maybe a little bit, but I genuinely believe it not only from the anecdote of like, people are drawn to energetic, radiant people who are locked into loving life. And there is also science behind that. Like I talk in the book about how overwhelmingly so you are more likable than you think you are. It's called the liking gap And overwhelmingly so, non-conforming traits are attractive. Namely, the thing that you think makes you too much, too this, too that, maybe too ambitious or too up-leveled in your life and I need to chill out.

54:03That is the thing that will make you attractive. So I think pump the brakes. Create a life we love. Put yourself out there. Date from standards, not expectations. And then love will meet you there. I think it's a healthy mentality. It doesn't force anything. and it creates all, it does help you also create the most important lens, which is that of reciprocity. Here's what I bring. Here's what I give. Is there a version of that? That's given back malleable, but is it given back? I think that's a healthy mindset. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And, um, I think creating a life you love also just totally changes what you believe about yourself and what you deserve.

54:40Like you said, it's just, it completely shifts what you're attracting. It's a, it's a little magical. And the moment you're like, wait, I'm actually attracting people who like respect me and are like, you know, kind of in a, yeah, it's, but that's like, it's like the purpose is to love your life. Yes. So if the purpose is to love my life, then someone who comes into my life should help me love my life more. But if I'm not loving my life to begin with, then how will I know if that person's helping me love life even more? And most likely, if you don't love your life, you're waiting for the person to come in to make your life better.

55:12And then that creates, I think that's a great topic too. I talk about it again with language. Like we, we have this language built around. I want to, I want to build a life with someone. I think that's fine. I love this in the book, right? It's like, cool. Building a life is a beautiful sentiment and you are building a house, building a legacy, building memories, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. But the subtext of the word build is that if you need a partner to build your dream life, what does that mean? You're doing in the meantime, you're not capable of building your dream life on your own. Sure.

55:40If children or partnership are part of that, that's important to go after, but that's not the totality of building your dream life. So I say in the book, it's like, let's drop that kind of language. And we, we, you build your dream life on your own and then you find someone and you do life together. And again, that sounds like a small thing, but I think subconsciously it's really important. You put so much pressure on yourself with, I want to build my dream life. Well, I need the partner to build a dream life. It just becomes this scarcity mindset, this rushing mindset. So I think locking in on build my dream life, do it with someone else, amplified by someone else.

56:15Yeah, completely. You also talk in the book about embracing a little chaos, which I thought was interesting. Can you describe what that means? Yeah. I mean, from my own anecdote of many reinventions personally, career-wise, relationship-wise, it's like clarity comes from the chaos. Clarity doesn't come from comfort. clarity doesn't come from choosing the same thing over and over again. I mean, I'm a big proponent of doing opposites. Like if you are frustrated and you're like, there's no good this or every date I go on is bad. That's a fair statement. I wish that wasn't the case. Can we inject a little chaos into our process?

56:53Can we do the opposite of what we've been doing in the sense of if you've been saying no to coffee dates because you feel like it's a lazy endeavor and men need to take you to a Michelin restaurant. Let's just try the opposite of that. If you've been dating a certain type, try the opposite of that. If you've been locked in a certain routine and diet and workout, just inject a little bit of opposite into that. It's not in the book because recently I came across this. There was this social scientist who was really interested in what separated swimmers across talent, what made one swimmer an Olympian and what made one swimmer stuck in in D1 and also what made an average, you know, 34-year-old weekend swimmer average.

57:35And he looked at all of their efforts over years, and he hung out with Olympic champions, college all the way down. And his anecdote, and I'd have to dig into the study specifically about where he got this data to support it, but he said that he found on average that an Olympic champion swimmer didn't train more often than an average swimmer. what the difference was is that the olympic champions trained differently they did just entirely different training regimens and they had very different mindsets towards the the sport and uh that sounds like a crazy thing to claim that like if i was a swimmer that on olympic like ryan lochte michael phelps i trained the same amount but they trained differently but that that was the claim of the study it was really interesting um so again i think in the terms of different like what can you do differently how can you inject a little bit of chaos good chaos chaos that gives you clarity that could only benefit you and I think sometimes that's exactly what we need we need to shake things loose a little bit we need to shake ourselves loose maybe it's from expectations what a first date should look like how fast the relationship should go who we should say yes to who we should say no to just open yourself up a little bit and see what happens.

58:49Yeah, I completely agree. I remember in dating, I, I was dating this or chasing after the same type of guy for a long time in the same context, whether it was like, I worked at bars in New York city when I was in my mid twenties. And so we would meet there. Um, or I would kind of fall into the, uh, only doing dating on apps for a period of time worked in some cases, not in others, but I would, I knew that it needed to change. It just wasn't working. And when I opened up to the possibility specifically to step outside of my list, the surface level part of my list, whether it was height, what they did for a living, where they're from, yada, yada, yada.

59:34I mean, I met some amazing people and like, if they would have walked into the room, I would have been like but then we sit down and we talk and we connect i'm like oh this is where the attraction is it's not in the typical guy that i'm attracted to and it just taught me so so much about like letting go of what i've grown up to think is going to be like my person my prince charming even like my life yeah i never expected to do what i do be where i am like any of it i I did not plan. You know, I think a lot of people are nodding. Like I thought I was going to be married by 26, have kids by 30, you know, and it's totally different and it's so much better.

1:00:19Yeah. And I think the same goes for dating. Add that to the pile of anecdote that I hear. Yeah. It's always true. And I think there's a beautiful reflection in that too, because you met some of these people when you opened yourself up to opposite and different. Yes. And they weren't permanent soulmates for you. No. And yet here you are able to reflect upon those temporary people with lightfulness. and cheerfulness. But I think that is a somewhat unique trait in that we have this mentality where if they didn't become your soulmate and you didn't lock them in, that that whole experience is in the dumpster.

1:00:52And, you know, I think a lot of that comes down to just like our aversion to nuance and like be sitting in the discomfort of in-between experiences. And just like we want to label good and bad. But I think, and I always forget his name, there's a French philosopher who says cheerfulness is the most certain sign of wisdom. And I think cheerfulness in retrospect is such a wise, emotionally mature mentality to have, to be able to look back at a relationship that didn't go the whole mile and to still say, oh, that was a beautiful experience. I really liked that memory I had. And even if the relationship ended in a dumpster fire, to be able to look back and say, man, I really liked the way we were on date one.

1:01:31I didn't like what became of it and there was nothing redeeming of it. But like that mentality, I think it's so rewarding because it opens you up to appreciating love, temporary love. And I think without that, you just become very closed off, very outcome driven, and it robs you of this beautiful thing of life of giving love, receiving love, not being permanent, but still appreciating the memory. I talk about it in the book, the way that we think about memories, the peak end idea, the way that we evaluate the peak or the end and we construct worldviews on it. I think it's, to me, it's the ultimate endeavor of patience and cheerfulness.

1:02:08And yeah, I think it would benefit everyone. So, I mean, what you said is beautifully described anecdotally. And you, you describe it in the book as just that failed love moving you forward. So we think it's like failed and it didn't work out, but I think that's where it switched for me, where I started to recognize that one, I'm working on myself and I'm attracting a different type of person. or I'm like able to recognize a different type of person coming in. And I was also just appreciating things about people that I appreciated about myself. It was like this tandem thing happening. I was like in therapy and I'm also sitting down with people I never thought I would date and appreciating things about them that before I probably would have thought were annoying or whatever.

1:02:55And you would just dismiss them. Yeah. And it was, and I think the key was literally being reflective after the fact and being like, wow, I actually loved how he, he was such a good listener. Or I loved how he asked me questions and was like so engaged or, you know, how he kind of led and planned the date, but asked me, you know, what I was interested in, just little things that like told my brain, this feels good. This is like what we truly like and what makes us feel seen, et cetera. Um, and then I was able to recognize it in like my person, if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

1:03:33I mean, I think what you just described is, is curiosity, which I think is a, is another quality that we lose sight of when we're so rushed ahead. I had a call yesterday with a friend a little younger than me. And, uh, he's, he's got a date this week with this like 10 out of 10. And he was like, you know, what do I do? First of all, I'm not the right guy to give you like, here's what to say. I was giving him some funny jokes that I thought were funny. But I was like, I said, dude, like, don't overthink it. Just be curious. Yeah. I was like, I wasn't like ask her questions because women want to talk about themselves.

1:04:07Like be curious for two reasons. One, it's a sign of respect. And two, you are here to see if she's right for you. You're not here just to assume that she's perfect for you because she's hot. Like you are there to be curious for your own self. So like curiosity going both ways, I think is like the ultimate way to enter into a relationship because it removes the expectation. It opens you up to everything you just mentioned and it allows for connection. I think it's a beautiful mentality to operate from instead of Lord knows what mentalities we're operating from nowadays of suspicion and cynicism.

1:04:44So what you're saying just reminds me that like, we're bringing this energy to the date. So it's not just in the like postmortem that we're like, suck, whatever. It's we're actually in the moment, bringing that energy to the experience of we're judging. We're kind of seeing if they tick certain boxes, uh, they're not this. Like, I remember this very clearly. I feel like, no, two minutes in. Okay. And I would not, it's not to say that they were my person, but I would just write them off so soon and it's not doing me any good or giving them an opportunity to be themselves, to be comfortable because I'm already like onto the next.

1:05:25So I think just remembering that too, where like they're just like our essence, we bring wherever we go. We bring that energy of like what we're expecting, kind of what we feel like they're not hitting in the moment. That is felt, I feel like. Yeah.

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1:06:16I was needing to hire someone for Kajabi within our business to help us do Kajabi. And so I saw this little profile, said, oh, she seems like a great fit. We got on a call. She was incredible with Kajabi. She was so incredible. Whether you're a smaller business or if you're growing really quickly, their business plus gives you an access to the top 1 % talent on Upwork with AI powered shortlisting that can match you with the right freelancer in under six hours. So this saves a lot of time. This is actually what I've been doing because it does take time to find people. It does take time to vet people and it's kind of a thing, but I want you guys to be outsourcing more so you can enjoy your life.

1:06:52You can do what you need to do and you can grow your business and still have time for freedom. And Upwork is that place to have that. At Upwork.com right now, you can post your job for free, what you're looking for, who you need to support you. That's upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to grow your business. That's upwork.com. So living in Los Angeles, I have so much access to supplements, to all the thing. But I remember over a year ago, finding the absorption co and using their little packets. I use restore energy, calm and sleep all the time. And I remember really thinking about the brand and being like, this is a genius idea because no one really asks about absorption of a supplement before buying something.

1:07:32So for a supplement to actually work for you, your body needs to actually absorb it. And that's completely, for me, changed the way I think about my routine. The Absorption Co. is so great because they're focused on solving the biggest problem in supplements, which is low absorption. Most supplements absorb at less than 16%. So much of what we're actually taking never gets used by our body. One of the things that I use and really feel a difference in is their magnesium. It is my number one stunner of all supplements. And I've also added their berberine into my routine. This is for metabolism, blood sugar, and craving support.

1:08:08Most berberine actually doesn't absorb. It's like 1%. So I love that they're really focused on making significantly more bioavailable berberine. So start taking supplements your body can actually absorb. Go to absorbmore.com and enter code ALMOST30 at checkout for 35 % off your first order. That's absorbmore.com, enter code ALMOST30, and check out for 35 % off your first order. I agree. I mean, it comes back to the curiosity, date to be seen, not just liked. To quote my friend Jillian Tarecki, who you probably know, she talks about how the purpose of a relationship is to make you happier, not happy, right?

1:08:49So we're operating from a perspective of knowing ourselves, having happiness, amplification of that as opposed to dating from zero and hoping for completion in the form of some intense expectation or some intense role in their life. So I think, you know, operating from what you already know with experience and with curiosity, it just, it makes it more enjoyable. Yeah. um okay I I wanted to ask as a last question um there's this like thing I think people do when they're dating I did this where I'm like simultaneously trying to open my heart but then also protect my heart and then there are times when I feel like my heart's closed and I don't feel anything.

1:09:38And it's just this kind of like, what is safe? What can I do? What is the proper way to kind of approach dating and relationship as it relates to kind of that heart space, that vulnerability, that just tenderness?

1:09:56What do you have to say about that? I have a lot to say about that. I think I understand that. Of course, right. When you've had your heart hurt, when you've been betrayed, cheated on, broken, 180'd, like your human reaction is, how do I avoid this experience in the future? Of course, it's like evolution. It's why we're here. It's how we survived. And I think the mentality that most people take in the face of that is, hey, moving forward, I only give what I get. I only match. It's catch flights, not feelings type stuff. And I think that's really harmful towards ourselves when it's acted upon in a certain way.

1:10:33The whole I only match what I receive mentality I think is really, really limiting in the sense of we think it protects us, but it just makes us more passive. I think there's a huge practical upside, practical upside for being the first person to give love, to give energy, to give enthusiasm. You lead with it. Yeah. Then you see what you return and then you can match or move on. But you lead with it for two reasons. One, the more aligned reason being show yourself that you're in charge of your own life. You're not going to wait around for someone to give you interest. You're going to throw your whole self out there and you're going to see if it's given back to you.

1:11:08And if not, you're out. But also like when you give love and enthusiasm right off the bat, you are collecting data quickly. You are creating a new lens to evaluate this person. Are they on my level? Back to your other question. When you give love and energy and enthusiasm, you say, OK, let's see if they've got the sauce or not. As opposed to the alternative of only matching, you are delaying that so substantially. It seems so silly to me sometimes. And I think you take that mentality and you park it next to a mentality of recognizing that, yes, okay, you've had your heart hurt and you are hurting.

1:11:44And there's a certainly timeliness to that, right? So take your time. But then from there, it's like you have to ask yourself, is love worth the risk of having your heart hurt again? And if the answer is no, then you're probably not ready to date and you have to find a reason to say, yes, it's worth the risk again. And I think there's a certain mentality that you have to adopt of wiping the slate clean the best you can to not project to other people, to not allow for that illogical space between your reality and the reality you want to live. And I think you bring those two mindsets together, the practical of I get data quicker by giving myself and giving my heart again.

1:12:22And then also the deeper of can I wipe the slate clean and not believe that a future person will hurt me in the same way? I think that's really the only way to move forward. Yeah. And it's tough, of course. I think it takes time and you shouldn't force yourself and you should date from a perspective of why am I doing this again? I see a lot of people like, ouch, that hurt. Ouch, that hurt. Well, I'm just going to keep swiping. Like, let's take some time here and really understand why we're doing it. of talk in the book about asking people why you're dating. And surprisingly, people don't have great answers.

1:12:56It doesn't need to be poetry, but I think a lot of people date from a scarcity, from a that's just what you do, from I don't want to be alone. Like, are you dating from fear or are you dating from love? It's a bigger topic. Love of yourself, love of life, love of amplification, love of abundance, like these kinds of topics. Or is it from fear, fear of being left behind, fear of being unlovable. I think a lot of those things fuel a lot of these like avoidant dismissive mentality. So somewhere in there is an answer, but I think it borrows from creating a new balance in your life, a balance of bringing no bullshit mentality with you from your past, but willingness to put yourself out there and be the first, be the first person.

1:13:39I think that is like the ultimate life. Then you get the truth quicker. Yes. And isn't that what we're after? Why are you delaying the truth if it's going to hurt you regardless or annoy you regardless definitely frustrate you regardless and i like in one of your recent podcast episodes you were talking about just like like put put out the truth asap you know like kind of come to the table like this is this is who i am or this is like my my vision for the future like even going so far as that and i think a lot of women are afraid to do that because they think they're going to be too much oh but it's like i hear that so much be clear at least at this point in my life where i'm like in my 30s in late 30s and i'm like yo to my girlfriends i'm like be up front and what i've seen in three girlfriends that i can think about the top of my head they have found their person you're a wealth of anecdotes that support all this stuff it's crazy they're getting married like they're because they were like i want kids yeah this is this is i i would love kids in the next two years.

1:14:44I have a dream of this. And the partner then shared theirs. And then they're able to kind of see where there's a match, where there's more conversation to be had. It's just, oh my God. So much less bullshit. The entire endeavor of dating is to get to the truth faster. And I always say that like honesty, passion, intensity, clarity, it's a filter for the wrong people and a magnet for the right people. Like always every single buying because the whole point is to be is to get people into a category of really should be yes or no sometimes in the maybe but like get as much information as you can as possible as you can and then yeah i'm like the the women who date men notes of the fear of being too much or coming off as too intense so like what is your objective with that then if you're unwilling to disclose that you're gonna like trick you're gonna lure them in and then spring it upon them i think subconsciously women are afraid to put that out there because they'll scare them away.

1:15:41A lot of women are. But if that would scare them away, they'd be the wrong person. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's easy for us to say this. But I also think the other practical takeaway there is like for women, be upfront about what you want. The right guy is going to receive it. Also, just very anecdotal. And you don't have to be like simping for your man. But like give compliments. like I spent a lot of time on Reddit, which I think is, I don't know. I see it as a reflection of like average people. And there might be spectrums of that. But like I see thread after thread after thread of men. There's these threads where men are like, tell us about a compliment you received.

1:16:19Men, they're like, oh man, I had one back in 1995. Like men don't receive compliments that often. It's just, it's just different for men. Maybe they don't deserve it as much. Who knows? But like you give a man a genuine compliment, it's going to land with him. So, you know, I'm not saying this along the lines of like trying to game and like trying to win someone over. But if like you really like a guy and you're up front with what you want, throw him a compliment and see that puppy land for you. And it doesn't, you know, it doesn't remove the male-female lead and chase dynamic. You can give a man a compliment and still be the one being chased.

1:16:54I think women should try that more often. absolutely I mean I have a shirt that I got in like 2007 that I still wear because I got a compliment on it like people remember it's like falling apart people it's true men remember it so and even in in my marriage I'm like it really it goes a long way because you can get into such a like just a routine of like doing things the same way and like really missing moments to appreciate and moments be like wow actually just because you do that all the time doesn't mean like i can't be like you know i love when you do that yeah you know what i mean yeah it goes a lot and that's what's going to keep a relationship together like yeah like i talk in the book about the difference between consideration and declaration consideration is something like that a small little compliment or me doing something small around the house or just small things declarations are the go on a big trip to celebrate our anniversary or like a big dinner big loud things that sometimes people, you know, will put beside love bombing, but like the majority of a relationship needs to be built on small in between moments, moments of consideration.

1:17:59So I think the more that we can practice that type of behavior, giving and receiving the, the more resilience the relationship is going to have. Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay. Case Kenny, I could go on forever. This has been so fun. No, it's been great. Congratulations on the book. The book is out now, the opposite of settling, you can get it anywhere books are sold. And I would love for you to read the quote. Right. So I wrote you a quote. I like to do this with people I appreciate. So I just, I feel like this will, will land with you. I just wrote, and you can keep it. Uh, I wrote there's magic in people who embrace being a hot mess of happiness instead of trying to be perfect.

1:18:37Certainly something I've, I've heard you talk about before about the chase for perfection. Yeah. And I think the idea of being a hot mess of happiness is like a, you know, similar to what we're talking about with chaos, finding clarity in chaos, happiness and being a hot mess. I think that's a beautiful anecdote. I'm obsessed with that. And it's so, so freaking true. It is so true. I'm going to frame this. I've loved my time with you. Thank you for being here. Thank you. The book, who's this book for? Who's picking up this book? It's for anyone who wants to be a little bit more optimistic in the search of love and And in their current relationship, if they're in a beautiful one, celebrating the real purpose of it to remember the sales pitch of its amplification of your life.

1:19:24And, you know, if you're still in search of love to come back to yourself, build a life you love and then to have love find you there. Yeah, it's definitely for both. Both of both. Awesome. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for listening. We'll see you next time. Bye. Thank you so much, Case Kenny, for joining us today. The book is The Opposite of Settling. It is out now. You could follow him on Instagram at case.kenny. And thank you so much for listening to the Almost 30 podcast. We have new episodes every single week, every single week. So please subscribe where you listen to podcasts.

1:20:00It means a lot to us. And if you loved this episode or any other that you've listened to on Almost 30, share it with a friend, share it with a family member. It's always so fun to start a conversation based on something that you were listening to. and I think it just brings and add a texture to a relationship where you can kind of go deep and we go deep here as you know so uh we love you we will see you on the next episode bye