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25:03And why was this? Like it actually all makes sense. Because the other test is one of the tests in my kind of validators. Does the inverse of it make you really uncomfortable? people like if we figured out one of your values and i created this archetype that was the opposite of it i said lindsey how does it you're taught you're at a party let's just say you're someone who's gratitude is a value or again one word so bad but like always be grateful or something like that right you're at a party and you're talking to this guy and he is telling you about his trust fund and how his mom's coming to work and all this stuff that is like anti-gratitude and the person's face just gets like tense.

25:44And they're like, yeah, that is the opposite of my value. So when values are violated, like we just feel that at our core. Do you feel like there's, because it, what it sounds like to me is like kind of this like rediscovery of who you really are and, and how you want to show up to your life and like what you'll be available for and not. Yes. And has that always been since you've incarnated on earth or is it like, is there a certain age at which it becomes your values? Cause like, could a 10 year old have values that, that survived their whole life unevolved? Or is it like, Hey, after 18 or after 25 when your prefrontal cortex comes online, you'll be able to define your values.

26:42I've generally seen that they stay the same for most people. Hence they, unless they have some formative experience, right? Your partner or someone, you get cancer in your 20s or 30s and health may become the most important thing in your life. But they are, they're not at birth. I think they are forged. We all have these experiences and these experiences affect us differently. And there's things that, again, we want, we long for it and we want the same. and or like it was painful and uncomfortable. Ironically, it might become a motivating force for us to do good, even though it's painful and uncomfortable.

27:16And I'm not a therapist, so I'm not in the ever – I'm not going back and litigating it. But it's like, look, you were alone a lot, and now you started this after-school program for kids. Like that's awesome. You made a really meaningful contribution out of that. But I think it's in these like formative years and formative experiences that people have. And when you generally figure it out and you look back, it's really cool to do. I just watch a click in people's head and they're like, oh, like I was literally doing this work with someone from a leadership standpoint. She was going through a divorce.

27:52And I was like, these are two of your core values. And I just she had this look. And I was like, what? And she's like, my ex is like the opposite of two of these. And I was like, that doesn't surprise me. That's really hard. You know, we can talk about, we talk about the big three. Like you can be with your partner. You can, and I never, I did not understand this in my twenties. Like, cause I think we look at compatibility from activities. Do we like the same things in the same books? But when you start having kids and you start making a life together, it's about those big decisions. My wife and I are super different, different interests, but about the big things were generally always on the same page.

28:31If you have a couple of things that are misaligned, but if you have like an opposite magnet all day long and you're like, this person is about the long term and this person is about living in the moment and this person is about spend it and this person is about save it. Like that gets hard. Oh, yeah. And so with couples in particular or even in your own experience, how do you bring this to the table in conversation? You know, because it does feel it's like this concept. and then obviously you're helping us to define it in a very specific way and just bring it in tactically to our lives but how have you brought this into conversation like with your wife for example yeah my wife i joke so we also we got it we also we also did i actually shouldn't the full values and i will not push her to do that but we did this why exercise and and actually very much uh that is like the dominant core value for a lot of people and so her why is better way and mine is, sorry, hurry-wise right way and mine is better way.

29:31And those are like super like problematic in certain circumstances. So we use that language. She'll be like, do me a favor. I just planned our whole weekend. Like don't make it better. Like don't, we could do differently. Don't whatever. And a lot of times I'm like, there's not really a right or wrong decision here. Like just it's pizza or Chinese food. Like go with it. Like she brings that sort of apparatus, really good decision-making apparatus to smaller decisions. So I think if a couple did this work and said, look, here's my list of core values, here's my list, they would be able to identify these points of conflicts.

30:07And I would say you can probably tell why people are fighting, right? You can tell that, hey, look, most of our fights come from this sort of in the moment. And like, look, I grew up, you know, with a mom who is sick and I have this live every day. And this person grew up, you know, poor and they really have a kind of save for the future, you know, mentality. And so, like, we are we are kind of struggling here. There was a story I heard on this from two soccer players who were dating to the women's soccer players. And it was a great story because I think it was a values. And she said, look, like we fight like our fights are over this takeout food.

30:43because she wants to order a lot because she grew up in table where there wasn't enough food. And like I grew up being told not to waste. So like we finally came to this deal. You can order whatever you want and whatever, but it will become leftovers and we will eat it over the next two days. I thought that was a really good example because like, look, we're not going to change. You know, we're 30 or 40 year old fully baked humans at this point in your 20s. If you really want to make some changes, let's acknowledge these things and where there are potential areas. of, of concern. Yeah. I had a similar moment with my husband where, um, he grew up, uh, with a single mom, incredible mother.

31:25Um, but, and I grew up with both parents and I feel like they were able to create some experiences for me that maybe his mom didn't have time for. She was working full time. And so we were going to Florida to visit a friend and I was like, can we go to, And I'm not like a Disney World person. But I was like, we have a son. There's always one. I'm like, can we go to Animal Kingdom and just, you know, whatever? He's like, yeah, yeah, of course. Like, that sounds good. But I wasn't feeling the passion from him. I was like, and he was, it was like a Thursday. He still had work to do. And so he was like in the room a majority of the day, like doing work.

32:03And I was pissed. I'm like, I'm going to not be a part of this and see this. And, you know, isn't this so cool and whatever. And we had to have a come to Jesus moment. because he was like, first of all, I have to work. And so we could have done better communication around that, I guess. He's like, but also I didn't grow up with this. I didn't grow up expecting this or experiencing this. And so I actually don't think about doing this stuff. I'm glad that you do because that's a part of what you're bringing to our family too. And he might have a value if you get what you get. Yes. And that's just.

32:34So I'm thinking about the values now in that situation. And it's like so, it's probably something that sits under that for him. where, you know, you get, you don't, you don't want things, you know, needs or wants or something like that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I think I saw my dad in particular overcompensate with those types of experiences, but kind of lack on say the emotional that I think his mom gave him in abundance. Right. So it's like, so interesting. Yeah. The stuff it, it, it, again, I, I, I run a professional service business for 20 years. Like at that point, you're like almost a therapist because it's never a product issue, right?

33:13It's only people. And this stuff carries through to people. Like, so here's an orientation I've seen, particularly in the workplace. So people who, and a core value, they have a core value of trust or relationships based on trust. Now I've learned from doing this for a while. When I kind of sense this out, I will say to them, Lindsay, I'm not gonna ask you what it is, but did you have a violation from trust at some point in your childhood? Because this seems strong for you. Usually tears rolling down, ash in face. Again, it doesn't matter to me what it is, I just know we're on the right page, right?

33:44So here's how this shows up as a 20, 30, 40, 50-year-old leader in the workplace. They sort people into can be trusted or not trusted. And the feeling that someone cannot be trusted is deep and dangerous, right? It's primal. Like, not being trusted is how I get hurt and how I get blindsided. But they're putting people into, you know, this bucket and they're throwing people into the penalty box without a key. And the people on their team have no idea. So an HR person, I once commented to me, she's like, oh, when I explained that I knew this person was a trust person, they'd had some, she's like, I was always so confused.

34:21Like they were in love with this person one day and they weren't the next day. And so this is the steering wheel driving. And this is, you know, you not driving. So what this would look like in my ideal world. And when we taught it is like, hey, Lindsay, you just did this work. You have a core value of trust. what would be really helpful is to go back to your team or people when you hire and be like, look, trust is really important to me in a relationship. And when you miss a deadline, when you show up late, when I can't find you at four in the afternoon, we work from home, like it sort of causes like issues of trust.

34:54And by the way, trust is really hard to repair with me. So if you feel that I'm distant, feel that I'm aloof, there may have been a violation of trust. And by the way, I give my trust wholly, but once it's broken, it's hard to get back. So come talk to me if you feel that. That's taking – again, we're not going back. We're not litigating. This is how this person has showed up in the workplace for 20 years. This just might be the first time they understand how to use it to their advantage. So having conversations and basically like outing themselves in a healthy way. Yeah. Right? And then asking for what they would need in order to – It's like how to manage me, right?

35:32Yeah. Like how to manage up. Look, my dominant orientation is find a better way and share it. You would not want to come work on my team if you're someone who likes the rule and let's do the same thing. Like fighting words to me are that's how it's always been. So I would just tell people that. I'm like, look, if you want stability and calm and predictability, that's not my – if you want new and growth and creation, that's much more my leadership style. We had someone who did this work and figured out that growing up they had a parent that had some mental health issues. and that parent just couldn't read a room and like was always saying the wrong thing and just really like embarrassed them.

36:10And they love this parent, but they realized like, oh, like self-awareness is like a really important value for me. Like this is an anti-value. And so when people on their team flashed anything of self-awareness, they would get all over them. So they didn't realize it. So she was psyched. She took her values, went back to her team, gave a whole presentation. It's like, look, I'm free to be me. This is me. This is how you manage me. These are my red lines. These are my triggers. And we actually managed the performance of all those leaders over the next three to six months. And they markedly higher scores.

36:41And they felt great about it. They're like, look, I'm just, I finally get to be like, this is who I am. And like, I'm probably not going to change unless I really want to. The change is not, the change is I'm going to be aware of this and lean into it. I'm not going to try to make it that trust is important to me, you know, at this point. It's pretty baked in. And I had someone once tell me he had sort of a make sense of thing why and or a core value. And, you know, what he said was like, look, I had a very abusive stepfather. And like every night for me it was like how much did he drink? Do I get him to chase me?

37:17Is he going after? So his like that's just he looks at situations and has to figure them out and make sense of them and analyze. Like that's what's comfortable to him. And that came from a crazy story that he shared with the group. Wow.

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41:13In the workplace in particular, so we're talking about leaders. I feel like everyone has that self-led aspect of their role in an office or a corporation. But if we're talking about someone who has a boss and that employee is working on their own values and getting clear about them, how do we communicate that upwards? So there's an interesting example back to that trust thing. In that case, you'd probably go to your boss. So trust people actually tend to overwork to earn each other's trust because they don't know how to communicate that. So you might say to your boss, hey, look, trust is really important to me.

41:54So I need to know that you have, you know, that I have your trust. And if I don't have it anytime, like, I'd love you to tell me or, hey, look, I'm really motivated by figuring out better solutions or whatever. So I'd like the projects where, you know, we're doing this. I mean, people moving people to their strengths. You need to I play tennis and I like the analogy like in tennis, like you got to be aware of and mitigate your weakness or a good player will go at it. But we're trying to go to our strengths. So you're trying to say to your boss, hey, look, here's what I do really well. or here's what you can count on me for.

42:25And so keep this in mind when you're picking who does what. If I knew someone on my team had a core value of include all perspectives, I would not be like, oh, can you do me a favor? Were you going to make a unilateral decision without talking to anyone? Literally, I'm asking them to do something that is inherently painful for them. But I would then ask them to be like, look, actually, we need to figure out when we're going to do this office party. So can you figure out the date that works best for everyone and kind of come back to me. And they'll be like, awesome. Like, I'm going to get everyone's feedback and I'm going to synthesize it.

42:57So just starting to understand, and any good leader should want to put their team in situations that they would do well. So if you're telling someone, here's what I do great and here's what I don't do great and they don't care, like, it's probably not a great boss. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever, I'm sure you have, but worked with someone in a leadership position where you're like, how the heck are you a leader? here? And then have you had success in kind of bringing this type of analysis and just defining the values into their realm? Because I'm sure it happens more often than not, but I'm always curious, are they able to be penetrated in that way?

43:40Yes and no. Again, people change if they want to. So I think when people realize that something is bad for them, they will make a change, right? And they'll say, look, this is a problem. I think when they don't or they perceive it's an external problem. So I've seen both. I've seen people really lean into this and understand and be like, you know what? I don't want to switch to this job or I'm not good at this. I've seen people fight it and make the same mistakes and think that if they just change their job, this issue will go away. And I've seen this enough to be like, no, this is who you are.

44:10This is how you show up. I remember someone recently who sort of like, I had been kind of telling them about this for a while. And then they finally came to me at the end, almost before like it was too late. And they were like, I kind of think like, this is hurting me. And it was kind of a little too late at that point. And then it was interesting, even after they left, we continue to find problems that were part of that same manifestation. You know, they either trusted too little or put too much and trusted too much or didn't trust enough. Do you find that, so these are personal values that are obviously applicable both in personal life, work life.

44:55And friends, yeah. And friends. Friends, family, and business. Yes. And do you feel like people have a propensity to be able to hold those values better in certain realms over others or it's when you get them defined and clear and specific that it's able to just kind of penetrate all? So that's a great question because, and I always say like, as much as we all love Jerry Maguire, like a lot of the work I've done, like people figure this out and they're like, wow, my company doesn't match my values. They've got kids to feed. They've got bills to pay. Right. So we'd all love to drop the mic and walk out.

45:30But I think, I think people particularly in the corporate realm, like if your friends don't match your values, if your community, we forget about community and the big three a lot. Like I, community matters a lot, right? So if you say, look, let's say you're someone that had a health scare and health is really important to you and you live in Newcastle, England, you know, and they go out to the bar like eight hours a night, you're not going to go out to the bar and not drink, right? Or it's not the right group or friends for you. You need to be somewhere where the default activity is outdoor or exercise or otherwise.

46:03So, you know, obviously we can change our friends, we can change our partner. Like these things have costs, values, decisions are some of the hardest ones. They tend to be the more painful in the short term than just going along with stuff. And, and, and it's very well over time, particularly when you make hard decisions that are values aligned. Work is tough. If you don't work for yourself, right, you don't get to choose who you're working with or how. I think you can try. I always say this, you know, I wrote another book about the worst employees are not the ones who quit and leave. They're the ones who quit and stay.

46:37My advice to someone would actually to be the employee who quits and stays and says, look, I'm done at this place. Like it doesn't align with my values. I just may be here for nine months while I look for something that does, but I've emotionally made the decision to move on because my work here makes me feel shitty. Like, and I'm asked to do things that just don't feel good. And if you, if you're asked to go, a lot of people say, well, what happens if you go against your values like all the time. Well, you're going to do two things. You're going to feel pretty crappy. It's that sort of like, you know, grading, uh, on the chalkboard, or you're going to subjugate your values, right.

47:15And kind of put them in the back of the closet. And then it's probably going to have a blow up at some point, right? Like with your partner, if you sort of like, we're just not going to deal with this huge values misalignment we have. And then it's going to like come out in the, it's going to come out in the future. Um, I've always said similar in a company about just more direct conversations. Have you ever, anytime you like don't have the little conversation and you hold on to the thing, it always comes out. And then when it comes out, you start with, and then four months ago and then two months ago and then a month ago.

47:44And so I joke why I think it's bad in the workplace to do that, to not tell people real time. I'm like, let me, any of you in a relationship ever had that come out? And has ever been a good conversation when you start? Cause you're like, wait, three months, you were pissed at me three months ago and six months ago when I was doing that. Yeah. And also like the body keeps the score, you know, I feel like the body really like kind of holds on to those moments, those feelings in particular. And I've had those moments where I just swallow and I'm like, oh, that's not going to be good for my body. Like, you know, it just over time it can, I've seen, I had, um, there was a period of my life in my twenties in particular where I just felt like I wasn't speaking my truth.

48:27Yeah. You know, I was just kind of, I was a recovery. And that's common at that time. Very common. People pleasing most of my life, like very polite, good girl, yada, yada. And it was just, it was coming to a head at that time. My skin was flaring up. I was just like, I felt like inflamed. Like it was like hot. It was like something inside of me was just cooking. Discongruence, yeah, yeah. And wasn't able to flow out of me. And so when I started in small ways, you know, over time and it compounded to like actually just say the true thing in moments in my relationships, skin cleared up, inflammation went down.

49:04Like I just felt better. I felt like I looked better, more healthy. Like it was just wild to me. That was a moment in my life where I was like, wow, okay. Like if you feel like you were just biting your tongue or just kind of swallowing something and not saying the thing or not actually making a decision based on what I now know is your values, like it's going to have a consequence. Yeah. There's a Gandhi quote. And to me, this is like he says that happiness. But to me, it's the essence of thinking about the people, you know, living in line with your value. Yeah. Is what you're thinking. You know, he says happiness is when what you think, say and do are all aligned.

49:41Right. Think about how the people we know, they are thinking one thing, they're saying that. That's really exhausting. Oh, my God. It's so exhausting. Versus to be like, look, what's in my head is the same thing that I say and the same thing that I do. And I'm worried about where we are in the world today because I think we are – and social media and the college campuses and a lot of the stuff that just doesn't make sense to me. We are getting very tribal, right, where we are joining a cause and I'm like, these people actually mean you harm. Like, you know, and you are, but you're joining and taking their banner and their flag.

50:13And because that feels like fun to be part of something, which I get. And we had COVID. Right. But generally, like, if you were anchored in your values, you would be like, that is not me. Like, I'm not, I can say no to that cause or joining that thing. I know everyone's doing it, but that doesn't make sense. I just said, I value truth. And these people are lying. Right. I just said, I value being kind to all humans. And they're telling me that one type of human is horrible. Like these things don't – they don't make sense. And I – you know, people are – you're very worried more I think in your 20s and your teens about what other people think.

50:49I think that's what we're losing now. I think people could anchor in these values and figure it out. They'd be like, oh, like here's what I should do there. Or I should say no to that. Or this is why that feels a little bit like I feel yucky. you sort of said you know doing this how are you because i'm curious just for like our kids like how are we teaching our kids values i hear it i'll see little clips on instagram like my values in our home or this and our we say it every night but i'm like how do we really get through to our kids on this level and have them feel good about their own values and actually make decisions based on them, not need to follow the crowd or their friends?

51:31I think it's, yeah, you don't want to make this way too complicated, you know, for kids. But I think talking them through when you feel strongly about something, when you feel righteous, like, why is that? And that's okay. I think family values are great for little kids. And I think kids should be part of it. Like, what do we the glazers want to be and say? And values in organizations and personally, they substitute for rules, a lot of arbitrary rules, because the combination of values make up a whole bunch of things. And so we did it with our kids and they had like, what do we stand for? And, you know, I've heard families who say we, the X's, we tell the truth.

52:04That's just, you know, how it is now they can be more one word, but, but again, our family kind of values are, um, be happy and healthy, be respectful, responsible, and resilient and, and be kind. Right. So there are these three. And I always say like, like some of my son, it was always like, can I have the third cookie? You know, my answer would be like, but that's not healthy. Like, you know, we talk about healthy. And still one of my most proudest moments as a parent was when for one of my children, I won't name it, but the teacher used four out of the five family values to describe the kid in the report card that they sent us.

52:40um so it's it's we're all kind of like animals right we're training we have a puppy right now we're training a dog it's like you you you do what's rewarded and you do you same in organizations and what sort of punish you move away from so i think making these family values fun and then at some point also saying but look like you've got your own values and you're your own person and what does that look like and feel like you know probably they kind of need to be a teenager but But one of the favorite family value stories I heard was this guy was telling me his daughter, and this is just so much better than arbitrary rules.

53:16It just really is. Again, if I ever hear that my kids are not respectful or other kids are not respectful, it's just a like, it's a real trigger for me. But his daughter was going to prom and they were kind of negotiating over curfew. And look, a lot of parents would say your curfew is one o 'clock, right? And this dad took a different approach. She's like, look, you know that like it's a night. There's a lot of people out. Your mom and I, you know, are going to be worried. We're going to be up. So like I want you to pick a time that you think is reasonable because we're just not going to sleep really well until you're home.

53:50And maybe he was thinking 1 o 'clock and she was like, I'll be home by 12. But rather than it being an arbitrary rule, he sort of explained the like, hey, look, we care and worry and that's why. And she picked a different time and it sort of brought her into it. So the more discussions you can have with your kids, again, we the Smiths don't lie or we are kind to people. That's different than like you broke a rule, you broke a rule. You know, this is an arbitrary rule. Yeah. It makes them like an active participant and reflective, I think. Because if it's like this is what we do as a family, it's not just kind of like you did this wrong and now you have to fix it.

54:27And your kids should get old enough where they start calling you out on your – that's when it's fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. You're like, was that a white lie, dad? Or is that a, you know, and then that's an interesting discussion. Like, do we always tell the truth or do we save people's feelings in these cases? Like, those are kind of interesting discussions. But I would make the kids part of that, you know, and there's an age when they can do that.

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57:13yeah because i think one of the most heartbreaking things that i've experienced both as a child but then as a an adult and just witnessing it and realizing it and therapy is like when a parent wants to drive home of value on their kids and they don't live by him. Yeah. You know, over and over. And then the kid is leadership too. Right. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's, it's just, I think for the child, I'm sure it's heartbreaking for the adult on a subconscious level and that eats away at them. But then there's also the child not seeing that example and that discussion of like, no, we, we, we stand by that, you know?

57:51And then it's confusing. It's like, wait, so you don't do it. So I have to do it. Like, it's so confusing, you know? And, but I just love this approach because it's like actively participating together, actively holding each other accountable, making it more of a positive spin rather than like. Those should be discussions and you should, I think maybe it would help. Maybe it would make the parent behave better if they felt like they're watching. And I've been telling them this because once that's broken, like in any leadership, that credibility is gone. And by the way, that violation of trust or honesty goes to become that value or orienting thing in that person's life where they will never trust anyone again who says one thing and does another.

58:36So they will have some sort of authenticity oriented value and they will be incredibly skeptical for the rest of their life of anyone who speaks from a pulpit. Yeah. Yeah. Metaphorical pulpit, not actual pulpit. Yeah. That's so, so true. Okay. So just to kind of round us out, can you walk me through like how we begin to get really specific? Yeah. I'm nervous. Okay. So again, in the book, you can follow the character and in his discussion with his mentor, like you'll see it, but it really starts with these six questions. These six behavioral-based questions that are designed to look at the times in your life when things were great and things were problematic and what do you want said about you, your eulogy.

59:24And I have all these questions at robertglaser.com slash six, S-I-S. You can just go get them. So you would take these six answers to these six questions and you would answer as much as you can, as you could. Then you would take all these questions and you would start to look across these six pieces of paper with crayons or whatever is color for themes because the same things will come up over and over again. They've been designed to kind of find experiences that are highs and lows. And there's opposite, like what's the stuff you really can't stand about people and you'll realize the inverse of that is something that you value.

59:57And so you start kind of taking those lists and then kind of circling all the green things and moving them to a new – I have a green theme here and I have a red theme here and I have kind of an orange theme here. And then the really different thing, and this is all in the book or the course or whatever, is this concept, this kind of core validator that I have. And this is the thing that people tell me. Because a lot of times people just give you a keyword list and they're one word things. The keywords you can pull into this to be like, these five things that I said in the red thing, like, what are they?

1:00:28So what you're trying to figure out is the theme first. You got to get the right, this is cart before the horse. A cool sounding name for the wrong theme doesn't help. So the core validator, which is the way you run this against this, is first, like, is it something I can make a decision on? Do I feel like this theme is something I could look at and say I should do this or not do this? And then the second question is, does the opposite of this make me really uncomfortable, right? Does it make me frustrated and mad because that's the sign? So those are kind of like do I have the right theme? And then when you get into the wording, when you get into like, hey, there's this better or how do I get from like better or improvement or whatever and to find a better way and share it, there's another two questions.

1:01:11And you say, look, is it a sentence structure? Is it kind of three to five words, not one word? So it's more unique and not everyone can say it. And then could you objectively rate yourself on it? Could you say like I'm doing a good job on this or not? Because that's how I feel like core values in the workplace. You should be able to be on your performance. It's like, I have value of long-term orientation. I really struggled in our business after COVID because it was like one chaos after another. And I used to work on the six to 12 months ahead and we could only plan like two months ahead. And so I was like, look, I'm actually not getting a lot of focus on the long-term time.

1:01:46And so I'm frustrated. So when you take all those answers, you do the themes, there's a lot more kind of stuff in it. And it takes a little bit of time. And you run them through this filter and you do a really kind of good job of running them through the filter, you will end up with these things that are decision-making rubrics, which, again, can help you. Like, is this the right partner? Is this the right job? Is this the right community, you know, for me? How many people live in a, you know, super political, polarized community? And they're like, I kind of really value all perspectives. Like, I don't kind of want to be in a – and community could be my eight blocks or it could be my town.

1:02:24But I don't, you know, I actually want to talk to different people. I don't want to be in a place where it's like I got to show which team I'm on, you know. And so that is the general process. But it all starts with those kind of six questions. And I know a lot of people, like, they're not going to do all of the work or whatever. And I'm like, look, do me a favor because it's really cool for me when people post these on LinkedIn. Grab a cup of coffee. Go on the six questions. Robert Glazer, I'm a slish. Just answer them. Answer them. Look at the answers and see if you're like, huh, like some interesting stuff.

1:02:54came up there. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to do robertglaser.com slash six. Six. Okay, great. Great. Do you feel like, so we have our personal values. Do you feel like if you lead an organization in some capacity, that organization should have their own values? And do they have to be similar to your personal values? Like how does that work when you're It depends on if you're the founder and CEO of the organization. I think if so, there are going to be a lot of direct dotted lines, right? But those are supposed to be shared values amongst the team. So they're not going to be perfect, but they're going to be aligned.

1:03:33You're going to build this in the model of what's important to you. So when I figured out my sort of core value of respectful authenticity, again, I'm the person, like a friend or whatever. Like if you want someone who's going to tell you what I want to hear, you know to call Steve or Sarah. Like I'll tell you like the truth in a nice way. And I had one of those conversations last week and I felt really good about it because that's in my zone of doing it. Right. So you're going to kind of have that orientation, you know, around it. And then you're going to kind of just make those decisions and move forward with it.

1:04:09Is there any, because we're in this like social media world now, do you have anything to say about like core values in social media? Your experience, what you're seeing, is there like a gap there? Yeah. And I realized I forgot the end of your last question. Let's jump back quickly. So if you're the founder, they're going to align. The company may have stated core values. The actual core values may be different like Enron. And so I think you need to be like, are these compatible? Sure. It's a good test of like, do I value the same thing? Yeah. The social media thing is interesting. I think the social media allows us to sort of point and shoot and duck.

1:04:55And that's where a lot of the problems come from where you can probably do something that's pretty incongruous with your values and then kind of hide. Yeah. Rather than having to sit down or being called on it or a discussion or someone to be like, hey, dude, that is not like who you have told me you are on your brand. And so I tell everyone, like, do not get into a Twitter war or LinkedIn war. Like, you will be pulled into the mud, right, and not in it. So social media doesn't – I was listening to one of your episodes. You were talking about this with a guest. Like, it doesn't – there's nothing it makes better, really.

1:05:30Like, you're hiding behind it. You're not having a real conversation. It boils things down to characters and incendiary things. there's so many people for whom like I don't think they would ever say something in person that they would do on there and so that's making you a little bit someone you're not I was I wrote a post on this I was commenting I had a couple people I have my newsletters on Substack and I have a paid thing and Substack's like a well-known thing you can unsubscribe it's super easy and I get these letters we're like I can't get out of this I'm trapped or whatever I'm like let me fix that for you like definitely there's like a hundred like unsubscribes on every email and whatever.

1:06:08So two people in a row, like I credited them, wrote them a nice note and said, fix this for you, by the way, like, you know, I didn't hear anything. And so some of my team was saying, would you do that? If you walked up at a customer service desk and you said, this is my problem. And you yelled at them, Michael, let me totally fix that for you. Would you just like walk away and not say anything, but we'll do it online. So I don't think online communication is a little bit of an oxymoron. Again, I think it is stoking. Tribalism is the opposite of values, right? So tribalism, unless you share the values of your tribe, is that I get pulled into something.

1:06:41I feel like I have to be part of the movement. Like I, I either am in it or I'm out of it and it encourages no reflection back on like, is this, how do I really feel about this? Yeah. The individual and yeah. Cause it's like, we're at a time where we're coming out of the pandemic. Yeah. And like the loneliness epidemic and then people want to be a part of a group and then they feel a part of a group, but then they're like so far from who they really are. But these group alliances, and I won't get into politics, but they make no sense. Our face value, like why are you? But it's like a mechanism.

1:07:17Yeah. I mean, we can have an offline conversation. Well, it is. This is really important. Core value decisions have consequences. And you don't get any credit when the river and your boat are going in the same direction. You get credit when you turn your boat up the river. Like it's easy when they're going in the same direction. And I'm writing a piece for Harvard Business Review on this. And one of the examples I use is the 37 Signals Basecamp guys. I don't know if you know who they are, but they're a very well-known software company. Basecamp's a project management tool that people have been using for 10 years.

1:07:46They've eschewed every, they were first at remote work. Jason Fried and David Heinemar Hansen, they were first at remote work. They raise no venture money. They have a small team. They do all the opposite of the things. In 2022, as sort of peak, we'll call it political activism at work was taking over, there was politics in their company. And they looked at them personally and they believe in like fairness and inclusion. And they were like, these, like what's going on now is like, like I would rather not work here than, than, than do this. And they basically were like, look, we are not going to do politics.

1:08:21And this is in the middle of everyone doing politics. Wow. No politics at work. This is before Elon Musk owned Twitter. And Twitter was used as like an agent of cancer. Like the world came after them. They told them, you're going to be on the wrong side of history. You don't get this. 30 % of their people left. But then two weeks later, their revenue wasn't very different. And then suddenly, resumes are pouring in from people who don't want politics at work. Four years later, these guys still don't have investors. They're making a ton of money. Their business is doing better than it's ever done.

1:08:52Their employee engagement's higher. And people are calling them and being like, guys, we were wrong. Now, there are a lot of businesses that waded into this stuff because they just felt like they had to. And those businesses are a mess. Their performance is a mess. And they try to appease everyone. And so, but I point that out because they almost lost their business, right? But they believed in it so deeply and personally that they were like, we'd rather go home than continue to do something in the workplace that feels so personally inauthentic to us. That's, that's a core values decision. I'd say so.

1:09:26Yeah. That's super powerful. Wow. Yeah. And I feel like we're kind of, you know, it's still happening, but I do feel like we've kind of come up for air a little bit where we're able to kind of like see the fog has like lifted a little and we're able to kind of see and feel that and the effects of it. And I hope we're kind of walking back to ourselves and and this will be incredibly helpful in defining defining our values to stand by them but um this has been amazing thank you so much for being here and the book is incredible and i love the different format i'm someone who has like you know the stack of self-help books lots of non-fiction story it's so yeah and it's really a beautiful nice read i finished it really quickly and um yeah this is something that i just ordered for my husband and And it's a great conversation, too, to bring into your home, I think.

1:10:19I'll send you both the course. The course is connected to the book. If anyone orders the book before it launches or during launch week, they can have the course. And it just kind of will coach you alongside of it. Great. Great, great, great. Thank you guys for listening. All the information to get the book is in the show notes. Get it right now. It is out right now when this episode comes out. Thank you, Robert. Thank you. For the best. Okay, see you later. Bye.

1:10:46Thank you so much, Robert Glazer, for joining us. The new book is called The Compass Within. I am so excited for you all to get it. You can go to robertglazer.com and also robertglazer.com slash six to get those six questions to start defining your values. All right. We will see you on the next one. Thank you for subscribing, rating, and reviewing. Send this to a friend. Talk about your values together. Maybe you guys can have a values night where you're going through some of these exercises. It's a beautiful conversation starter. So enjoy. We will See you soon. Love you. Bye. Love you.