826. Why ‘The Wait’ Is Worth It: How To Thrive in Life’s Hardest Seasons

28:20It was a long journey. But in that weight, I really had God transform my life. My relationship with Jesus is the foundation of my life. And it's really shaped every area and every season of my life. And I feel like in those eight years, I discovered who God is and I discovered who I am in him. And I discovered that waiting is not like a curse. A lot of us look at waiting as like an awful thing. And that doesn't diminish painful seasons that we walk through. But I also think it's in painful seasons that God reveals himself the clearest, that he didn't cause the pain, that he won't waste it. And I can say that about my eight years of infertility, that I really wouldn't take back a day.

29:08I found work in the way I found, you know, worthy causes to sink my time and my investment and my love and my affection into. But I also found wonder that even before I ever had a baby in my arms, God really healed my heart. his love was enough. It assured me that I had a purpose here on earth, regardless of the outcome of this fertility journey. And I'm just grateful for that. And I'm passionate about it because I want people to realize right where your feet are today, not five years from now, not when you get the thing that you're praying for, the thing you're working towards, but right here today, there's work and there's wonder.

29:52And if we can have that perspective, it opens up our eyes, and the doors of our life to so much more.

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32:57So much here. I want to, I want to dig into, I think the first is just this, you know, labeling that sometimes happens when we're in a waiting period. I think specifically for you, I'm curious about your attachment to or how you were affected by the label of, you're going to have trouble getting pregnant, you know, or you're infertile or, you know, whatever, whatever the label was given to you, or maybe what your mind kind of manufactured. So I'm just curious how you wrestled with that and just really understood like your true essence rather than the label? It's such an important question. I think the label is one of the things I wrestled with the most.

33:44So you're right on when it came to my journey. I really didn't want to be the infertility girl like that. That wasn't going to be my journey. I was so, you know, turned off by that as far as like I didn't want people to know it's first of all, it's a private part of your body, right? It's a private journey, having a family, intimacy, all of these things are very, very personal. And so to share it publicly, it wasn't my first response. In fact, it took me six years before I shared it publicly. And a lot of what we do here as we lead a community of faith is public. But this was a part of my life that I really wrestled with God in.

34:29And I found him so patient. I don't know how you see God today. People have different views. God is my father. When I read scripture, I don't see a God that is condemning me. Yes, he convicts me because he wants me to be whole. He wants me to walk without any shadows of shame or fear looming over me. He wants me to live in wide open spaces. But scripture paints him as a father, a perfectly loving father. And so when I look over those years of waiting, when it was such a personal struggle, I only see his kindness that patiently waited on me, that counseled me, that made me feel so safe and secure as I took a close and careful look at his ways, as I examined his character, his nature, fell more in love with who he was.

35:20It changed who I am today. And I came to a place with that label infertility where I realized, and it was only through his counsel, right? Just trusting him, surrendering day after day, nothing pretty, nothing Instagram worthy, just real relationship, knowing the scriptures and knowing him brought me to a place where I realized I can let others identify with my pain without allowing my pain to identify me. That was a life-changing moment where no longer did the label affect any part of my identity. But I understood because of Jesus, I'm a daughter of God. I'm loved. I am known. His eye is always on me.

36:04I am seen. A lot of people live from a place where they need to be seen. And so you look to be seen by others. You look to be seen by your spouse or your family or the crowd or random strangers on Instagram. But there's something so much deeper when you know that God, your creator, his eyes are on you. It fills you with a confidence and a quiet and a calm that is stabilizing. And he gave me that assurance that I was seen. So I knew infertility is not my label, but I can share my pain and I can be the infertility girl so that others can identify with the broken areas of my life and find a God that brings healing.

36:46And so I think the labels and the weight is so key because you can get so offended and you can isolate and you can fail to even share your struggle with the people that love you the most because you don't want to be labeled. But if you could remind yourself that the people that love you the most are going to see you for who you truly are and that they're going to strengthen you, it will change everything. So powerful. Powerful. I think so many people, I felt this deeply when you said it. just so many people want to be seen and we're kind of spending, we are spending so much energy wanting to be seen in different ways, whether it's for our successes, for what we look like, what we do in the world, you know, what we give it's, yeah, it's a powerful, powerful shift.

37:34And I guess I would be remiss not to ask this question right in this moment, but because I want to go back to what I was going to ask, but this one, I think it's kind of a part B to what you just said. And that is for people who are curious about returning back to their faith, because so many people in our community have felt just a strain with their kind of original faith from their childhood and, you know, kind of had that like teenage angst of like, this is not me anymore. I reject it. We've heard so many stories like that. And both Krista and I have been very public about kind of our coming back to God.

38:20And I'm just curious, whether it's through people you meet, your own experience, or just what you feel God wants us to know is around returning to our faith. Because it's just so, so it is the foundation for all of these moments where we feel lost, where we feel confused, where we don't know. It's so important that you know that God is waiting to welcome you back into his arms. Again, the posture of the father, we read a story, you know, a picture of the father in the Bible of a son who goes off. And when he comes home, the father isn't, you know, locking the door and asking 10 questions before he lets him in.

39:12But rather the father sees him from far off and runs to the son and wraps his arms around him. And I just want to encourage anyone who feels too far gone, feels like you don't understand how far away I went. You don't understand. You know, I may not understand, but God knows you better than you know yourself. You got to let that sink in. You know, we can get really obsessed with personality tests and all of these things. But when you understand that there is a creator who made you and knows you better than you know yourself, you understand there is no lid to your personality. There is no lid to your future path or what he can do in and through you.

40:00The only thing that stands between is a stance of your heart. Is your heart open to him? Will you return back to him? I would say don't waste another minute. You know, open up your heart right where you are. Say, God, come back in. I have been searching and I have found nothing like your love and I need you. and make that picture that we read in scripture, your story that the father comes and wraps his arms and brings you into the house. And you are a daughter, you are a son. And the other thing I would say that is very counter-cultural right now is that like you really need a community of faith because your creators made you to live in community.

40:43You know, it's funny, like science always, you know, eventually breakthroughs are shared that reinforce just the way that God has created us. And I love the studies they've done on like New York subways, where like the people that just decided to talk to the stranger instead of reading their newspaper or like listening to their audio book, they are that much happier consistently if they actually engage in community. And alone, our faith can get really, well, you can become disillusioned. You can become isolated. You can come up with some crazy ideas. But in a community of faith, not full of perfect people, full of broken, jacked up people just like you who are working out their faith, who decide to forgive, who decide to move forward.

41:28In a community of faith, you're going to be stronger. And so I would also say start to look for a community of faith that is a good fit for you. My dad told me when I was young, keep it simple, Don Cherie. Talk to God. Read your Bible. And so sometimes we can make things more complicated. Life is not easy, but the path home is very straight. Open up your heart to God and seek him. He will respond.

41:58You mentioned earlier this idea of finding work in the weight. So I'm just curious what that really looks like and what it's looked like for you And for people who are trying to discern whether something is for them to work on or for them to let go of. Because I think sometimes we can hold on to something that's really not for us. And it could feel like work, but it's really not meant for us. So I would love your take on this, you know. Yeah, I think it's both, right? It's like in The Weight. There's a chapter in my book, Slow Burn, that's just called Make Space. because I realized in those eight years of infertility that like I've got some things that I'm like storing up that's taking up residence in my heart and I need to actually make room.

42:49I need to make room for like a miracle. I need to make space to see clearly in this season. I'm stocking up things in my heart for the next season when I have kids. But God, you want to do something in me right now. And so I think when it comes to the work, I often think of my heart like a garden, right? Like there's soil. Am I nourishing the soil? Am I feeding the soil? What seeds am I sowing? When I'm in the Bible, those are seeds of faith, of belief, of perspective shift. When I'm in community, I take the time to be around friendships that like speak life. You might need to let go of some relationships that are toxic because people's words impact you.

43:32No relationship is going to be perfect, but you need to align yourself with people who are pulling you up, that are speaking belief over you, that are speaking love over you, that celebrate in the weight. Celebration is one of the major ways we build our life in the weight. And so making space is as important work as cultivating what's there. And then for me in the eight years of infertility, there was just so much heart transformation. sometimes we think that it's through talking a lot talking helps but talking to the right people I'll make sure to qualify that but those quiet moments of introspection of meditation of being quiet with God of journaling so much can be worked out within you as you allow God to counsel you as you're quiet, that by the time it comes for you to have the conversation, the conversation is completely different because you already did the work.

44:38And so life is really fast paced in 2025. We are all gunning it. It's like, how quick can the workout be? How quick can lunch be? How quick can we get to the next thing? But if you want to find worthy work, it's like, what's going on deep in my soul instead? Like, what am I planting? What am I meditating on? What are the thoughts that are becoming not just thoughts, but a framework for my future? There's work as you wait. And I discovered that while I was waiting, like in many moments, God was actually waiting on me. I'm like, God, hurry up. I'm ready to have a family. But he's like, there's so much that I want to do in you so that when you step into that next season, you're ready.

45:19And the things I want to do in your heart today, if you'll let me establish some things, they're going to be permanent. you're going to carry that strength for the rest of your life. It's beautiful because you have this work of trust and surrender. I couldn't make myself conceive, like have a baby. I couldn't do that. Tried my hardest, but I could do the work of surrendering. God, I don't understand it, but I'm not going to waste the season. And when you do the work of surrender, all of a sudden, you have this wonder of, okay, because I've opened up my heart to this moment, because I'm being present, these mundane moments suddenly become miraculous through relationships.

46:04One sentence can change your perspective through opportunities, just a host of things you didn't expect because you're not focused on the next season. Your eyes are open to today. Yes. Can you share one or two of those things that God really worked with you on? Absolutely. I think that God really worked with me on just facing my fear. I've dealt with fear my whole life. In fact, I talked with a beautiful young woman last night at our church. We had a night of prayer and we were talking and she said the same thing that countless friends have said to me over the years and strangers. She just said, we're having trouble conceiving.

46:46It's been quite a while now. And I haven't been to the doctor because I'm afraid. And you can have a lot of reasons why you don't go to an infertility specialist. But fear is not a good reason. So I don't ever prescribe what people should do in their weight, as far as especially with the infertility journey, because it's so personal and it's so specific. I don't really get into that. But what I will tell you is if in any season of life, you're not doing something because you're afraid, fear minimizes and makes you live small. Fear is a prison cell, prison cell for your purpose. And so I've learned since I was a teenager, because fear has been like a chameleon in my life.

47:32It pops its head up in a lot of different ways. Just when I think I've like pushed back at that bully and put it in its place, it puts a new mask on. and it can parade as different, you know, oh, you're just concerned or you're just being wise. You're just this or that when really I'm afraid. And so I was just sharing with her my journey last night. I'm like, hey, don't let fear bully you. Whatever the doctor says, this is not your fault. It is not a label for you. And God is with you. You're not alone. But don't allow fear to pin you in a corner. And so that was one of the major battles of my life.

48:14And I realized that fear is a bully, but when you actually face it, it shrinks back immediately. And you can walk through fear. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden the fear is gone. It just means you can move, you can walk, you can speak, you can decide, and you can do it afraid. And the more you do it, the more empowering it will be for you as you realize the strength that you have inside of you. The other thing that I realized is that my ability to take quiet moments and to journal really allowed me to have a healthy perspective on my waiting season and really allowed me to articulate what sometimes even my words couldn't say.

48:55So I use my prayer, my journal, almost like a prayer. Sometimes I'd put just a quote, a quote I liked that I saw somewhere. Sometimes I would put a scripture that really spoke to me that day. Sometimes I would write a whole chapter. I would write my thoughts just free flowing. There was no template. There was no perfect plan for it. It was just a safe place for me to document where I was. And as I look back, that's probably one of the greatest gifts that I have because I realized those moments were holy with God and that he was developing a trust in him. He was developing an intimacy with him that is so simple.

49:30I just needed to like take the time. So now I just like, I have my journal with me right here in my bar taco bag, but I, I just carry my journal with me. And if as a young, as a mom with young kids, sometimes it's one sentence, sometimes it's not at all. But when I get a chance, I do it and I keep going.

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53:21Yeah, especially at a time now when, And, you know, there are just so many things like vying for our attention and we're so easily distracted, especially by what's on our phone or what people think or opinions or there's just a lot out there. And it's, you know, so much of it is beautiful. And I think a lot of it kind of takes us, walks us away from our own knowing and our relationship with God. So I just love, I love the emphasis on that because I know the moments where you have the choice to sit down and journal or not, or like, you know, dirty scroll, just kind of mindlessly or journal. And I know those moments and I'm like, um, but I always think about how I want to feel just a few minutes from now.

54:10You know, it's not like a year from now, but it's just a few minutes from now. And it's like just kind of giving a nod to like that future self from a few minutes from now. Like, I got you. We're going to sit down and do this. I know the sitting down is the hardest part. And I also love just the point about, you know, sometimes it's just like kind of a conversation with God. It's a prayer and it doesn't have to look a certain way. I think we get so tripped up with the perfection of connecting with God. We get tripped up by the perfection of prayer. And, you know, it doesn't have to be seated with your eyes closed.

54:46It can be on a walk. It can be in any moment at any time. And I just want to say that out loud for people, too, because I think we kind of create these blocks between us and God. And it really can be so simple and so very much in this moment. It doesn't have to be later when you have time to go to church. I think that is so powerful. it's so powerful what you're saying because we live in a society where you have to project so much and I would just encourage people push back against that hold some things that are sacred between you and God don't get into the urge to post it resist hold those moments with God between you and and when you write it down for me it it's so what you just said how do I want to feel in a few moments.

55:40You know, why do I go to the gym? Because it changes the way I feel. Why do I journal? It changes the way I feel. The power of journaling though, is that it really clarifies your memories because it's also been proven scientifically that our memories morph. And so writing them down allows you to hold to the truth of what you actually experience because our memories, they shift over time. And so when I go back, I know that when I tell you that God met me in eight years of waiting and that he healed me and healed my heart before I ever held a baby. I know that to be true because I wrote it down.

56:16I can show it to you that he proved faithful. And so when I return and remember, it gives me strength for the future. It's why we're taught that we should study history because if you don't study history, you're gonna repeat the same mistakes again and again. Well, you've got a history that we forget it because we don't take the time to actually like write it down. So it brings me strength for my future as well. I love that. I'm so curious just how, you know, having been with your husband since a young age and really grown up together, how have you been able to, in communion with God, like allow each other to change and really be

57:03dedicated to the other person's soul and not attached to the version that you met when you were this age or the version that you're experiencing now. I feel like I'm experiencing that kind of in the beginning stages because I haven't been with my husband for the longest time, but even in friendships, you know, it's like, I kind of have to reintroduce myself in certain seasons. So I'm just curious how you've done that with your husband over the years. All the way. Communication is your lifeline in marriage. Hearing each other out, listening to what the other person is thinking about and processing.

57:43You know, we're not each other's, we're each other's everything when it comes to, you know, just life and commitment and our vows and our family. that we would both have therapists. We would both be close with our families and have deep relationships. But it's important for me to hear his heart because he is a completely different person from when we met, you know, 23 years ago. I think when we first started out, probably for the first 10 years, you are trying to change the other person to be more like you, you know, even in the most ridiculous ways. Like I'm like, why do you not like mustard and mayonnaise?

58:23Like, you know, and he's like, stop putting it on my plate. Like we've been together for 10 years now. Like maybe stop trying. He's like, stop trying to sneak it into the recipes. Like I don't like it. There comes a moment in your relationship where you realize, yeah, I actually need to stop. Like I need to embrace who he is. And I appreciate that he embraces who I am and giving each other grace and celebrating your differences and understanding that you can both take different corners of this life and, and use your strengths to make both of you win. It is such a beautiful thing, but it takes communication because I can assume that I know why he did that.

59:07I can assume I know why he said that or why this went that way. It's not until I actually ask that I understand. And I have to be honest. A lot of the times my assumptions are wrong. And so I think walls go up when assumptions are made, when unforgiveness isn't chosen. If you're not going to choose to forgive, you know, and really have a talk about it, you're going to have a tough time staying together because any relationship between friends, with your parents, with anyone, it's going to require a constant forgiveness. Rich's grandparents always told us like, you know, the greatest decision you can make is to just be the one that says you're sorry first.

59:46Get back on the right page. Be the one who says, we got to talk about this, you know? And sometimes you learn different ways to express. I think in the past, you know, maybe 15 years ago, I would have been taking a lot longer to express. I would store it, store it, store it, store it, store it. And then, you know, like just absolute destruction with a barrage of words and emotions and feelings. And it's like, well, that's not healthy either. That's not really the point of patience. And so I learned how to express myself in the moment. And also, you know, we just have some ground rules. We don't yell at each other and people go, well, that's not how I was raised.

1:00:27And I understand that, but we're all learning and we're all growing. And we all have to understand until we die, we have the ability to choose. And so we don't yell at each other. It doesn't mean we don't have frustrations. We have disagreements all the time. We just have some ground rules that keep the disagreement, you know, in a proper scale, you know, when you look at our relationship. We don't yell. We don't ever use the word divorce, you know. If we need help in a season, we get help. We get a counselor. talk to someone. Like we are very careful about the words we speak over each other. Our words build our home.

1:01:13Our kids are watching us and we don't always get it right, but we are committed to growing. And I would say like, it is not a bad thing to turn into someone different as you age. It is a beautiful thing. As long as you're both committed to growing. I hope that Rich would say about me that I'm a completely different person, that the good parts of me, you know, that he loved in the beginning, that they're still the same, that I have grown, that I have matured, that I've gotten better. I can definitely say that about him. But we're not like, oh, we're here and we're going to be like this forever.

1:01:50It's like, no, we're continuing. The growth and bringing something new to the table is what keeps the relationship alive. You know, when I finally started working out last year after Richard told me for eight years that he thought it would be amazing for my mental like ability with the kids. And when I finally did it, he wasn't looking over my shoulder. Thank God because who knows if I would have been that gracious going, I told you, I told you, I told you. And he's like, you look great. Like you, this is amazing. I love, you know, like championing, celebrating. And so I think when it comes to marriage, celebrate what you want to see, just like you do it with your kids.

1:02:29They take notice and your spouse may not say anything, but they notice what you're celebrating. And I think just to that point, there's a beauty in allowing each other to kind of come to something, come to a realization, come to a change that needs to be made on their own. And we know this, but it's very easy to love someone and want that change for them because we know it would be good for them. But there is a beauty in trusting the timing that their soul is, is kind of choosing. And it's also a lesson. I think I've, I've learned this lesson of, you know, that is not mine to control. I can lead by example, you know, like that's really all I can do actually.

1:03:18There's no other way that I can really control the situation. So that's been really beautiful. And I think just, you know, what you were speaking to as far as forgiveness goes and, you know, just being respectful when there is conflict. I think that just speaks to the importance of being able to repair, you know, because things are going to come up almost on a daily basis, you know, not huge things, but they're just going to be things. And so, especially I think with kids watching everything we do, it's like, how do we repair? I didn't see that growing up I didn't see like super healthy repair it just kind of like fizzled off and I'm like how's everybody doing like are we good like what's the temperature in the house right now um and so I just think that's really beautiful and a great reminder that you know the intention in you know the respect and not raising our voices and listening is so that the repair can actually happen.

1:04:21Because if you're calling each other names and raising your voice and being disrespectful, it's really hard to repair. Like that's something that I would easily hold on to and feel like, oof, actually not ready to repair, you know? And so it's like that intention in the conflict has really great effects on how you repair and just how resilient you are as a couple. And I think kids, when they're super young, you know, as you get older, you start to see your parents in a different light, right? You realize that they're human, just like you, all of these things. But when they're young, they're incredibly impressionable.

1:05:00And so we try to stay really cognizant of like, if we're having a disagreement, it's not being fake to go, hey, you know what, let's, let's do a timeout. Let's talk about this later. Let's, let's have dinner together. Let's, let's do this. Let's do that. Because when they're very young, they, they don't know how to wade through all the vibrations that they're feeling. And so I know for me, when it feels like, ah, this isn't, this conversation is escalating, you know, it's like, Hey, let's take a moment. And you can even take some time to think about like what you're talking about, to think about like everything that's going on in your life and how maybe just the rough day at work that you had escalated it.

1:05:46You know, sometimes it's not even the thing that's going on. It's what happened before the thing. And you can just call a timeout and then you can say, okay, this is what I wanted to say. It's even been in a point with me sometimes where I write a letter. I don't know if you've ever done that, but like, I mean, I guess I'm a writer. I love to write, But like, I just didn't want to say more than I meant. And I wanted to say exactly how I felt. I didn't want to say anything with a slant on it. I didn't want to say anything with a certain tone. I just wanted to say it and say it the right way. And the last thing I'll say about this while we're talking about communication and marriage, it was a game changer for me when I came to the realization that when I share my heart with my husband, sometimes I want an immediate response.

1:06:38I want an immediate affirmation of what I've shared. If I can instead feel confident in what I'm saying and say it in the way I want to say it, with humility, with kindness, with confidence, with love, and then leave it there and just let him have a moment. We'll circle back to it. what's happened to me in the past, you know, is that I would say it and I wanted an immediate approval of what I said, agreement. Yes. Okay. You're right. And when I didn't get it, I said it all over again, just with more force. And then you say it all over again. And, and before you know, it's turned into something completely different.

1:07:23I've found a healthier approach in my marriage is to say what I need to say with love. and I love when he does this for me too. You know, we don't always get it right, but say what I need to say with love and know that he heard me and not expect an immediate response, but let him, so often I see the change, like without even circling back, I just see he didn't feel as attacked. He heard the words. He had the time to think it through and see it from my perspective. That's been a big learning curve for me.

1:07:58Lately, I've been paying way more attention to fiber and protein and realizing how hard it can be to hit those without giving up the foods that I actually love, like bagels and toast and tacos and all the bready things. So that's why I started swapping in Hero Bread. Y 'all, Hero Bread has changed my life, Krista's life. I just went to LA and she was all over Hero Bread. She was having the bagels every day with her lunch. She normally has a little soup. She had the bagels. It makes it so easy to upgrade everyday meals. So my avocado toast, the bagel sandwiches, the wraps for lunch without feeling restrictive.

1:08:37The texture surprised me the most, I think. It is soft, fluffy, and tastes like traditional bread. It doesn't taste like something you're like, hmm, this is like a really bad copy of bread. It's so, so good. You'd never guess. It has zero to five grams of net carbs per serving, zero grams of sugar, and is high in fiber. Plus things like their breakfast bagels have 19 grams of protein. Okay. That's a lot. That's amazing. Hero Bread has sliced bread, tortillas, which are some of my favorites, bagels, even small batch drops like their croissants, which are unreal, and biscuits. So whatever you're craving, there's an option that fits your goals.

1:09:17I'm excited for you to try Hero Bread. If you want to hit your goals this year without giving up your favorite bready dishes, Hero Bread is offering 10 % off your order when you go to hero.co, H-E-R-O dot C-O and use the code A30POD at checkout. That's A30POD at checkout at hero.co, H-E-R-O dot C-O. Lately, I've been craving more simplicity, not just in my life, but in my nutrition too. It's really easy to feel disconnected when your cabinet is full of random powders and supplements and you're constantly questioning the labels. But that's why I really love cachava. It helps me simplify and feel more nourished without overthinking it.

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1:10:46It's just rich. It tastes so good. It doesn't taste fake like other powders. They've done it right. So rewild your nutrition at cachava.com and use code almost 30. New customers get$20 off an order of two bags or more now through the 31st. That's cachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com. The code is almost 30.

1:11:13Oh, it's a big one. I totally relate. And I think so much of that is what you spoke to earlier, which is like, what is my fear in that moment? You know, because it's so much about how it makes us feel when they don't like validate us in that moment or say, oh, I actually really understand. man, here's what I heard you say, you know? That would be amazing, by the way. That would be amazing, just so you guys know. But it's so much about the way it makes us feel. And like, if we can provide that, if we can find that in God and just know that what we said was our truth, even if it wasn't perfect, and maybe it was a little emotional, but it had our truth and our heart in it, like that is enough.

1:11:56And they also are a completely different person and need to process in a completely different way. And yeah, it's been a learning curve for me too because I so desperately wanted my husband to react in certain ways to make me feel better. You know, I've been there. Very relatable. I would love to round out our conversation. You spoke earlier about community, especially when you were going through your eight years of infertility.

1:12:29just speaking to the people listening who, you know, I think people want to find their people. It doesn't mean they think the same way or look the same way or believe all the same things, but really just on like a heart level, want to find their people. And so what helped you to create community in seasons where you were waiting or you just felt like so much change was, was happening within you and around you, how did you create community? I think sometimes friendship comes in the most unexpected ways. I'm not someone, well, I'm a part of a large community. I have a lot of friends, but as far as like, you know, just, I'm going to use the term best friends.

1:13:14As far as really dear close friends, it would be my family and a few people, you know, it wouldn't be a ton. I find it's hard to keep really deep relationship with a lot of people. You end up telling the same stories again and again and again. And I have a huge family. I'm one of seven kids. So between my parents and my siblings and my in-laws, you add a few more friends to that and I am good. But I remembered when I moved to Miami, I knew no one. I was really grieving moving away from this community that I loved in Louisiana. And I started serving at church and I started like a small group and we would meet like every other week.

1:13:56We'd, you know, make nachos, sit down, have fun. At that point, I'm like 22 years old. We have dance parties and just, just being young women who were in a very specific season of our life, whether it was doing our nails at home or watching a rom-com or like, you know, going out to see an art gallery, whatever it might be. Like there was a group of women that I did not know existed before I moved to Miami, but I decided I was going to be proactive. And so I decided, you know what, I'm just going to open up my home and start to make some friends. And that was really through my church. I think that a lot of times we can sit on the wall and be like, I really want friends, but that person is too busy.

1:14:41I'd like to be friends with her. But it's like, there's, there's so many potential friendships. You can't just go, that's the one I want. And you have to be intentional. I'm not 22 anymore. My relationships aren't formed just by like a mutual, oh, cool, good vibes. I like you. You're super fun. We're in the same season of life. It takes me hard work, intentionality and investment. And I'm going to say sacrifice. Like it takes me sacrifice to maintain my relationships. Uh, I just flew with my eight month old to my best friend from college, her 40th birthday. Um, that was an investment. You know, I've got four kids at home.

1:15:22Like that's not a complaint. That's not a woe is me. Thank God I got to go. But you know what I'm saying? Like, Oh yeah, that's, that's a, that's a mark on your calendar. We're going, we're going to do this because I want that relationship to go the distance. And she has been such a rock in my life. I want to make sure she knows how much I appreciate her friendship in this slow burn and so many seasons of waiting. But I find that a lot of my relationships, it's not the frequency, but there are large deposits every now and then of, hey, we're getting together. Hey, we're going to catch up on the phone.

1:16:00It's no longer like, hey, is this a good time at this age? Like, I'm scheduling it. Hey, is tomorrow morning good? Like, I'm just trying to help people with some practicalities who feel like friendship is hard. It takes work, but the best things in life take work. So schedule the phone call with the long distance friend. Book the flight one time a year. Plan the meetup. get the girls over for coffee one morning or open up your home, you know, like get it on the calendar and you're going to receive the benefits, but you're also going to be a blessing to others, which will fill you with a lot of purpose.

1:16:39There's a lot of people that need the friend that you long to be. Yes. Yeah. I love the practicality to it because I think we just think, well, we should attract the people that we're supposed to be friends with. And it just should happen so naturally. And if I'm forcing it, then what does that even mean? You know, and people, we, we all have our own lives and it is about making that effort, putting it on the calendar, putting ourselves out there, going to the places that we love to be and introducing ourselves. And yeah, it really is kind of an, like unsexy in a way where it's not like the, the cool, like just be magnetic, like, and it'll happen.

1:17:20It's like, no, you really have to make the effort because relationships, relationships are work, you know, whether they're romantic, friendship, family, like they're the greatest vehicles for growth ever. So yeah. So true. They are the greatest vehicles. And I can say that the relationships on my journey of this slow burn of waiting, they have shaped me. It's like one conversation with the right person can just flip my perspective in a moment. It's unbelievable. So maybe you don't have those friends right now. Don't give up. Keep trying. I'm living in answered prayers today. My last question is just around, you know, when you finally get to or receive the thing that you're waiting for.

1:18:09Can you speak to just the essence of that, the realities around that, what you realized about the waiting versus the actual getting of the thing. I'm so passionate about this because it's a part that I don't think we talk about a lot, that life is tension. And if you don't understand that even when you step into your dream, you are going to live in a tension, it can be very disillusioning. I have a chapter in my book, slow burn that's just called living the dream because living the dream is different from dreaming it. When you are dreaming a dream, it's one dimensional. It's the highlight reel.

1:18:52It's a picture. But when you are actually living a dream, it is 24 seven, so many different facets, multi-dimensional difficulties and hardships and impossibilities and interruptions. And here you are living your dream, but it doesn't look like the dream you were dreaming. It's because you're living it. You're not dreaming it anymore. And if you don't realize that you're going to become disillusioned, you're going to become disillusioned. You're going to give up on that idea that you had in your heart to start that business. You're going to give up on your marriage because it's taking hard work and it is peeling layers of selfishness off of you.

1:19:32And it is causing you to do deep introspection and to have a lot of conversations. And if we don't understand that life is full of tension, just because you start to step into a dream doesn't mean that the tensions alleviate. No. As we mature, we learn how to live in the tension, not to jump ship when we feel the tension. And so I think that when it comes to stepping into having a baby, I've got four kids now. My responsibility didn't diminish. I didn't step into this, but, but my capacity is being stretched. And I know that you could say the same, like I, I am learning to do more with less. I am learning to be present.

1:20:15I'm learning to be engaged. I'm learning how to manage, you know, worry and fear and how to speak life to my spirit, not just to me, but over my children. I'm, I'm just still learning and that's life. I'm going to be learning for the rest of my life. So I would just say like the other thing that I would say about stepping into a season that you've prayed for is make sure that you don't forget what you learned during the wait. And that's why the work is so holy and so beautiful because when you do it with God, he does something permanent in you. He changes your character. He makes you more like him.

1:20:55And that is actually worth the wait. Because at the end of the day, whether I have a child, whether I step into another dream that's in my soul today, none of those things can fill the God-shaped hole inside of me. All of us were created to wait on God. And we have eternity seated in our hearts. We can't understand it, but we know there's more. And so that waiting that I step into, even after I have four kids, I'm still waiting on things because waiting is life. That waiting, just that longing, that inexpressible desire that even now I hold, I can get in the craziness of life and be like, oh, I need something else.

1:21:40I'll go get the fourth coffee. You know, I need something. Let me go get the other coffee. Let me go work out. Let me go do this. And we just think that if we speed up, we're going to fill it. I've learned to be still and to look to Jesus and to open up my heart to what he wants to do, because he is really the only one who can speak peace to my soul, whether I'm holding the miracle or waiting for it. Beautifully said. Such an important message for just our busy, busy lives. We have a lot of dreams on our heart, a lot of goals that we have. And I think a lot of people just find pain in the tension.

1:22:22And there's just so, so many gifts there. And I've experienced it myself. And I've just loved hearing your story. And the book is incredible. You should be so proud. I hope you're writing another one. Thank you. Thank you. I'm working on it. But it means a lot to me. I'm grateful that it spoke to you. Yeah, it's beautiful, beautifully written. And I just, yeah, I think in this day and age, I just, I so love reading what is written by like a passionate writer, if that makes sense. Yeah. No shade to any other version of that, but it's like, I just can feel it in your writing. So I appreciate it so much.

1:23:01Thank you for being here. Thank you for sitting down again with me. I felt like this was perfect. I so appreciate it. I'm glad I got to have two convos with you. Me too. And you're glowing. It looks like summer's been good to you. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so, so much. Okay. We will see you on the next one, everybody. Thank you so much, Dawn Cherie, for joining us. The new book is Slow Burn. It's available anywhere books are sold. We'll have the link in the show notes. Thank you so much. We love you guys so deeply. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for rating and reviewing and for getting the book Almost 30 Witches out now.

1:23:38Love you. See you on the next one.