890. Emotional healing after betrayal + heartbreak

0:00So my most recent encounter with, let's just call it what it is, betrayal trauma, was the very end of my marriage. And it wasn't something that I had suspected leading up to it. When the person closest to you turns out that here's how my nervous system is interpreting it, is no longer safe, you start to wonder who else isn't safe. He was the same age as me. I was 41 at the time. He basically rejected me based on the fact that I was 41. and he's like, I don't want to get married and have kids right away. Mind you, we never talked about getting married or having kids. He said the fact that we're both 41 makes that a challenge.

0:35For so many women and very powerful women who have so much and are so successful and make stuff happen, it is almost the more vulnerable thing to say, I want love because you can't control it. Because I mean, all my women that I work with that are successful and single, it's the one thing in their life they cannot control. They get the job, they get the money, they get the friends, they get the body, all of that, whatever. And it's so tough because it is that thing that is so out of your control.

1:14Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. Hello everybody. Hello Krista Williams. Hello. I'm Lindsay Simsek. Hello. We have at Almost 30. This is a conversation with Lindsay Swartz of Powerhouse Women. So I had met Lindsay over the years, and it's just so interesting that women kind of weave it in and out of my life, but they kind of land as a friend at the perfect time. I did Powerhouse Women last year, and it was one of my favorite events I've ever spoken at, truthfully. She just does them so well. It was so stunning and beautiful. It was. And it was cool, too, because everyone was very genuinely having fun and enjoying themselves.

1:46I was just so impressed about her, how she's so clear and streamlined in business. So she has powerhouse women, which is an event for like 800 women. She does in Arizona. Then she does a mastermind and then she does a few other things, but she's just very specific about who she helps, how she helps them. She's very focused on her mission. Like it's very inspiring how she moves. And so I had done that event and then we had stayed in touch. She actually had got divorced, I think around the same time as me. And so we had always related on that, especially dating post divorce. So when I saw her recently, she's like, girl, we have to like go in on dating post divorce.

2:19and in some of the conversation today we talked about that so whether you're going through a breakup or post-divorce you know this is a really great conversation for that but we also talked about expression and authenticity and um also like changing your life at any moment and she's at a point now where she's completely rebuilding everything like herself her relationships her business and it's been so inspiring to see her because how she's decided to show up in that season is by going online and being really honest and vulnerable about it. This is Lindsay Swartz and she does Powerhouse Women event.

2:54It is in Arizona. It's going to be happening again this year. Highly recommend it. Like if you're a female founder, if you're someone that's building a business, it was easily one of my favorite ones I've done. So it was really good. Amazing. Okay, everybody enjoy this one. We'll share all information on the other side. We love you and enjoy enjoy it is so weird because when you're in it and when you're going through the rock bottoms and the grief and the unknown and all of that and even still to this day it's not like I have full clarity on my life but there is a part where you're like I wouldn't change that and I'm very grateful for that and I'm okay with that I guess for you when you were in your like really tough lowest moments of of this process of shifting your entire identity and who you are did you ever feel completely lost or did you always feel like this was happening for a reason I feel that's such a good question I remember feeling equal parts I mean the lowest devastation I've ever felt betrayal and just how unnerving that is it made me question like who I could trust maybe question like my ability to trust myself and like the decisions I was making but I also had this other part of me that felt so sure that I was being guided and I I can't explain it other than that there was just a part of me that knew I was being ushered into the complete unknown something I'd never experienced before but I also felt guided and was it just like seeing 11 11 on the microwave some days some days that got totally you're like hey man at least i'm not on the edge at least i'm not you know with gas in the car just trying to end it yeah but there were so many moments where i did question that it wasn't a consistent i remember one of the hardest moments was actually last year at this time and i think because i don't know if you went through this at all because of how much personal development i did i had like a timeline for allowing myself to be sad and then i was like i need to get over it of course i need to you know grow my business i need to do all this and i just kept getting pulled back into the energy of like this isn't complete yet there were financial things there were legal things and i remember getting a really big gut punch financially that felt so unfair and it felt i could tell the whole story and people would agree that wasn't fair you shouldn't have had to go through that you shouldn't have had to pay that money etc and I remember having just like this I have these moments where my higher self like really grabs a megaphone and thank god she does because I sat there and I I'm a Capricorn so I also that's I'm very stereotypical Capricorn like I'm going to make something great out of my life and I knew that I would so I sat there one day and it was like in the gut punch moment of realizing this still wasn't over.

5:53I was still entangled in a way I didn't want to be with something I just wanted to heal and move on from. And I said, okay, I know myself well enough to know that 10 years from now, I will look back and I will be able to see this was a gift. I may even say that was the best thing that ever happened. Like I will have created a life because I'm committed to doing that, that I'm really happy with. And it'll probably free me up to create all these beautiful things and have a beautiful relationship that I didn't realize I was missing. So I said, okay, I know, like when I think out 10 years, I see that.

6:24That's going to be how I see this season. What would it take? And I remember specifically asking myself, what would I need to give up right now in order to feel that way in a year? Because I could tell there was just something I had like my identity hooked into. It was a kind of like a sneakier form of being a victim. and as I started to unwind that the answers I really didn't want to hear it was it was things like I would have to give up my story that I'm right and this person is wrong huge and I had to sit with that for so long like that wasn't just the awareness and then I just am willing to give that up but I did the fucking work I have done so much work around that and the frequency I was going for is I knew that when I sat there on my high horse and thought well I'm so right and this person is so wrong and this isn't fair I didn't feel free so I knew that there was something more for me to give up there was something more for me to address within myself and I knew that like the frequency I was looking for was this internal freedom that was the the best way I could describe it in words and to look back now a year later there's still moments that I will get kind of hooked into something but the amount of freedom i created for myself shows me that we really can collapse time like when we're going through an identity shift i know you talk about this a lot there are ways to collapse time it just usually involves looking at where you are the perpetrator the one who's keeping yourself in some form of the suffering and the moment i put that on someone else is the moment that i give up on my power mm-hmm i think a lot of people in life i'm thinking about some of the older generations of like boomers and stuff who are who live their entire life in this dynamic like I know one of my dear friends her father is forever in the victim dynamic of his mother being bad his mother being mean his mother being all these ways and a lot of that generation is stuck in the victim of something and how that can literally run your entire life and be this aspect of your life that just keeps you from this new opportunity and keeps you from this new part of your process and so much of my healing has been finding relief in where I could be wrong and I think that's also the codependent part of me like making the codependent work for me you know what I mean because when you're codependent you're like how am I wrong yes how am I wrong here like yeah like how can I work on myself like what's wrong with me like they're mad and having a bad day I'm like I'm doing something wrong and so there's also like that part of me I've made work for me where I'm like, what did I do to attract this, to like create this?

9:04And I'm so grateful you have friends like this. I have friends like this too. Like I had, you know, my, my most recent situation, one of my dear friends, she's like, I just want to know what about you is attracting this? Like not for one second was she like letting me be in like, you know, she's like, girl, I just want to know why you're cute. I'm like, I know, like, what is it about me? Because if we think about it from like a level of healing and development, if you are in a situation you are getting something from it you are getting validation you're getting victim validated you're getting you know you're ignoring your life you're ignoring your purpose you're ignoring your bigness you're ignoring your power like there is always some benefit that you are getting to being in any situation safety control whatever and so when we look at that it can be such an unlock for that next level for you on the path of like healing from betrayal because that's like very specific and i've been betrayed many times and i've i was kind of working on my betrayal wound recently it's a very different type of wound because it's like yeah it's very different I feel like it it for me felt like um when am I safe unexpected like it's like I think for me made me very hyper vigilant of things of what's going on here for with the phone what's what like the phone was always my like portal for hyper vigilance what's going on with that phone like I had found so much stuff over the years on phones how do you like how did you work with that?

10:24So my most recent encounter with, let's just call it what it is, betrayal trauma, was the very end of my marriage and it wasn't something that I had suspected leading up to it. So it was more of an acute experience that did play out. There were things that I started to feel and know and intuitively could tell we're off and then to be able to match that with physical evidence in a weird way was so validating because again when i really peel back the layers one of the the biggest impacts was it really messed with my ability to trust the people in my life yeah when the person closest to you turns out that here's how like my my nervous system is interpreting it is no longer safe, you start to wonder who else isn't safe.

11:15And that part was really, really hard. I went through a full year now looking back of realizing that even in my closest friendships, there was a part of me that was hypervigilant, maybe isn't the same energy, because I've been in that energy before as well. It was more of a fierce self-protection. So even friends that were like you you seem like you're okay are you actually okay it felt really hard for me to allow myself to be supported because i just truly felt my nervous system felt like i did not know who i could trust yeah totally that was the biggest mind f of all of it because like now looking back at how dysregulated i was for an entire year plus just like not having a sense of grounding because we sold all of our real estate I was living in an Airbnb I was like the hottest homeless person in in Phoenix for a couple months because I just was I was like not even grounded in a physical space so I felt I think that was the hardest part to heal from so I had to start to create so I found a like a living environment and created a place that felt very soothing like I'm starting to build that back I'm working with all the weird woo body workers to like really get back in into my body and regulate my nervous system and just understand that it took a while to unwind the part of me that didn't feel safe anymore.

12:44And even still, you know, it did impact friendships and that part was hard. It was hard to see who, you know, especially when you're with someone for so long and a lot of your friends are other couples, to see that like when something like that can happen to you, it starts to like subconsciously trigger, I think, in other people like, Like, well, if that can happen to them, could it happen to me? And without even meaning to, I think people just distance themselves because that's a lot of energy to be with. So it felt it was lonely in a way, but it kind of had to be. And the way I look at it now is there were parts of that healing that no one could do for me.

13:23I knew that I could either go in search of the temporary soothing of, I have so many wonderful women in my life that would have filled me back up with all of the every form of validation I was craving. But I also knew that the healing comes from turning toward the pain. So I really let myself go through the healing process and allow my intuition to guide me in it. And it looks so different day to day. But I do think that, you know, when I look back now and the reason that I can say that I wouldn't change anything, my deepest wound was abandonment. even if an abandonment specifically the deeper layer of it was that I wasn't enough sexually interesting so had let's let's say the relationship ended with a conversation he came to me and said hey I'm not happy it wouldn't have actually triggered the wound that needed to be triggered in order for me to get to this level of healing so in a in the most fucked up way ever it's like I hear you I wouldn't be this free if I didn't go through what I thought was my worst fear would I have chosen it at the beginning of 2024 no but 2026 b wouldn't go back and change it you know so that's just such a weird duality and I think that the further I go in my own healing the more I realize that nothing is black or white there's just so much gray it's there's so much nuance I might feel that way today tomorrow I might call you and be like scratch all of that from the record yeah i totally regret it all uh-huh and just allowing myself that freedom yeah you know especially going through something like this as someone who has somewhat of a public profile feeling like i had to have myself together or i knew that was just going to add more pressure that i did not need that would just slow down my healing so i really let myself go through this in exactly the way that I needed to.

15:20I reserve the right to change my mind on all of this. And it has created the most beautiful, delicious relationship with myself, the deepest relationship I've ever had with myself. And I know there's even more to discuss. Yeah, I always say, I'm like, I just forget. If I say something, just forget about what I say. I'm like, I want you to take what I say very lightly and then like very seriously and lightly at the same time. Just like forget about it the next day. Let's just start over. Like I don't want to be held to anything. um yeah but betrayal is I feel like betrayal is of all things such a nervous system thing because it's that you know immediate response trauma unsafe and that an unsafety hits on the deepest parts of our wounds of attachment and so it's in the moment when you realize you're being betrayed or something's happening that you have that it gets stuck it's like oh not okay and also it's like I think for me my thing was listening to my intuition like so much listening to your intuition I mean gosh if I didn't know I was psychic then I mean I should have because you know you just know weird stuff don't mess around don't know a spiritual woman just don't do it do not do it like we will find out I would even know when a woman would walk in the room that he would find attractive I would feel his energy shift I'm like oh yeah like yeah I would be like oh your energy just picked up and like you know all of this stuff but betrayal is such a hard one to to get with it's such a vulnerable thing to talk about like not being enough sexually and I think there's probably so many women that feel liberated by you saying that you know by that like freedom of like whoa that's how I feel like and honestly I think with the world today don't get me on my soapbox about porn but like I think with the world today there's just so much in the sexual realm that is so overwhelming and now so crazy and so out of hand that women I think are getting the short end of the stick in so many ways with their body with the fact that men are having their desire for intimacy met in some short ways etc and so I can imagine that doesn't help this day and age that type of feeling what was that journey like for you of healing that you know and and how has that been for you and really coming into the space of like knowing you're worth more than just that but also knowing that you're enough for that as well yeah it was the deepest wound it also then became the the biggest fear I had about dating again yeah mine was really rooted in the fact that I grew up in the church I grew up not with really strict religion imposed on me I think I internalized a lot of it I'm a Capricorn I'm also the oldest daughter very internalized good girl so you give me a rule i will follow it like i prefer if you give me rules that i can follow and something i can measure myself against so that internalized even to the point where you know i waited until marriage you know did i have other experiences prior to that yes but like you know when you're trying to do it the technical way and you're like okay i'll wait till to do like that you're like i soaked 50 times like i was like i'm just gonna if i close my eyes yeah yeah Yeah, yeah.

18:28But I had, I had like come out of a relationship that was pretty toxic in college. And that was the imprinting relationship of this not enoughness. Because it was with someone who just constantly was trying to push my boundaries that I didn't have my voice or my power intact to be able to just say, well, clearly then this relationship is misaligned. It was just a lot of like push-pull dynamics over four years. and then when that ended I think even just meeting then the person that I married maybe a year later it felt like someone just so safe yeah like it felt like someone's safe but because I didn't know how important that sexual chemistry and that piece of it was to me I think I was now looking back and understanding so much of what I understand about the nervous system I was looking for safety and I found it with someone that I don't know like we we have we always had a beautiful like friendship dynamic one of my favorite people on the planet I wouldn't have married him if I if I didn't feel that way and I think just our own wounding made us both very avoidant of having hard conversations of bringing things up when it was like hey I would like more of this so it's really kind of hard to build a truly fulfilling physical relationship on that and then I just got wrapped up in building my career and now looking back like that was that was where I turned to for fuel and validation the more that there just seemed to be this disconnect so then in having the relationship end that way it was especially triggering because I had started to be more vocal I was starting to really find my voice and saying you know hey I'm noticing there was like a search for Pornhub on your phone I want to be really clear like I desire to have sex like what can we and would try to bring it up and it just I think seeing so much of where the disconnect was came down to the fact that neither of us were taught like how to have honest conversations and so it didn't go well and then it just led to more disconnection so then having that be the result I remember in kind of like the you know if we're in the this is a made for tv movie and we're like in the moment of like okay now the affair is out in the open and I'm just sitting there with a blank stare on my face processing it something came out of my mouth that shocked me because i do consider myself really like confident and i worked so much i built so much self-trust i built so much self-worth but i sat there with this blank stare and i just remember saying who's gonna want me and i think that was my indication that there was such deeper work to do i don't i don't think i could have even put the label of like self-worth on it at that point but similar to you I did a lot of you know healing and inner work over the next year and a half eventually did put myself on an app and felt really good I think the reason I had a great experience with it with the dating apps was because I was at a pretty secure place within myself but then as we know then you get into a dynamic with someone and feelings start to develop and that all goes out the window so it really was I mean the first relationship I had to end I'm circling all the way back to your question um I really called in the perfect person to help me number one heal a lot of that I realized no I'm actually really good at this like I don't need any meaning sexually I don't have anything to worry about it is more about compatibility it's about like being the woman that I am now to be comfortable enough to express what I want and then in micro ways one of the reasons that relationship ultimately didn't work out where there were ways that then I wouldn't fully say what I wanted in all areas right or I I just realized how much the moment I felt some attachment I started to filter everything through the lens of well who do I need to be so that this person stays and I was catching myself I was clocking myself doing it I think I just want to land on that for a second for everyone listening because that's the question that we all that's the thing that we all do who do I have to be for this person to stay yeah that's what women do who do I have to be for you to stay what do I have to do what I have to say what I have to look like how much do I have to negotiate how much do I have to cross my own boundaries how much how little do I have to say how like it's like who how can I juke and jive for you to stay and almost everything in your relationship and patterns that you're in are because of that question yeah almost all of them and you shared a lot about this before because actually when you and i met i was still married you were just starting to do more of the deeper healing work around sexuality i remember that was one of the things that i really remember about that first conversation we had we were at an event together and you know I think it just kind of stayed with me that there was deeper programming that was at play so the other yes I think I skipped over really the answer to the question because the yes the relationship that I inevitably called in was a big part of that healing but the work I did on myself actually what happened is I'm like my mom doesn't listen to your podcast so I'm like but I always you ever feel that way when you're sharing things that I know will really help people but then I'm like I really everything but I really hope this this is okay to share but um again my mom doesn't listen to this podcast so it'll be fine but my mom came to visit me for for I think it was five days and you know we hadn't spent one-on-one time together like that in a while because usually even if I would go home to visit it would be my sister would be there my dad and we were watching the show love on the spectrum did you watch this amazing so there's the one character i think danny is her name love her queen she just wanted to get laid she did and we wanted it for her yes and i was sitting there my mom and i were watching it that week we like binged the whole season and i just observed how uncomfortable my mom was with her expressiveness about sexuality and she would say things like oh what she's just so obsessed with sex and I just noticed because here I am now in my healing girl era and I was like that is imprinted into me that discomfort with my body that discomfort with women expressing themselves so what was so beautiful is you know I had her here for five days so I'm being directly triggered and I was doing like I'd go to bed and I would do these like subconscious reprogram.

25:16I love like the to be magnetic program. So I would do like the subconscious reprogramming on like going back and imagining having like a sexually empowered woman as a mom. And I just was kind of playing just for funsies to see like I knew that this was coming up for a reason. And this was also my biggest block. So it was right after that, that I think like the universe just kind of started to speed up in me then now putting myself in like a more vulnerable position to now start interacting with the male species which was horrifying at first like I was so I hadn't dated in 25 years I didn't know how to talk to him then I was so I was like hello it was so bad and I would be out at places and I'd be like only this one person in the very far right corner over there that I think is with his wife is able to talk to me I was like everyone else don't fucking get near me like it was so specific and I'd be so weird like i was such a fucking weirdo i would just be like oh yeah you know like i'm like oh man and it was yeah it's such a hard because i think i had also been from the midwest where there's ideas about sex ideas about dating and very many ideas about men and women so it was like i i'm a one way with my man and my husband but i don't talk to other men i don't have i'm not friends with them i don't flirt with them i don't engage with them so i had like shut off same the male species i don't have male friends and like i really don't have male same attention in my life at all even friends husbands are like we may be connected on social media but it's just exactly that same boundary was always there same so i never had that didn't really know how to so i was like hello like how do i honestly the way that i did it for anyone that's starting to date after a long vian relationship i just started flirting with like my uber drivers my baristas my air one cashiers like who are now like obsessed with them i love like just people you'll never see again that's very low stakes very it was just i want exactly i got the ball rolling with low stakes i started to get some easy wins yep some little you know some like nods in the the bucket so that i could acclimate what it felt like to talk to men and have them be normal i also realized and actually when i work with women i talk to them about this i was also going to men like validate me like I wanted something from them I want you to validate me as someone to date and I'm looking for your approval or I'm scared you're going to reject me so I'm going to reject you really fast and I went up with this this whole dynamic instead of being like this is a human I'm a human yeah how are you as a human so I would almost like take that they were a man or a man out of it and just be like what's this person what's up with them how can I talk to them like how can I be normal because I think when you're looking for a man to validate at you or like either reject you or accept you like you're gonna lose every time but you weren't conscious of it were you because that was happening for me so subconsciously maybe I was conscious of it because I was like what is because I'm always you know asking myself of like I think there was one guy who was it there was one person like one man that like really helped me see where I was like what is what's going on here what am I doing and why why can't I be normal and I was like what is because what so what's the part that's coming forward and the part that's coming forward is like do you like is that little girl from high school or college Ohio that's like what like do you approve of me or disapprove of me and I'm you know if you disapprove I'm your you suck and if you approve that's good yeah and seeing every man is like are you my husband like it would be like if you're not my husband go away and I'd be cutting out the entire male species you know of of the thing but it's like you had to start somewhere yeah yeah i so you know we we were joking yesterday we filmed for my my podcast about like under finally becoming aware that i had kind of like this fantasy of being saved the business version of that is like i just want someone to discover me like give me my own tv show like yada yada and then dating was i i would joke like i think i'm just waiting for him to show up on my doorstep so like hand on the Bible I'm doing all this reprogramming while my mom is in town it's like the day before she leaves I walk out my door and I literally bump into my pretty attractive neighbor who was also like a doctor like all these things on paper that you're like that that's a pretty good way to start testing the waters like this flirty little banter conversation leads to like hanging out a few times to the point where I was like and I was texting my girlfriends after I was like I don't know what that was it was like there was flirty vibes but I can't really pick up like I can't tell so like when it's amazing whenever I flirt with anybody I text all my friends like I just flirted with someone what does this mean it's like you being a human and having a good conversation exactly but it was like it was wild just to see I think I'm I'm bringing that up to parallel like when you're doing the inner work you get these opportunities to them practice it and it doesn't anchor in until you get the it really was it was like in that it was like a two-week kind of encounter where eventually he he was the same age as me I was 41 at the time he basically like rejected me based on the fact that I was 41 and he's like I I wanna I don't want to get married and have kids right away mind you we never talked about getting married or having kids he said the fact that we're both 41 makes that a challenge like you're just on a different timeline than me and I was like sir you're you're a doctor you know women can have kids much later in life but what was so beautiful again when I look at everything this is and you're we have that same ability to self-reflect at like what is this showing me about me yes because immediately the way that I went into that same like I'm gonna now project you harder and I had this whole oh and you're ugly as shit I was like wave I was like wave finger waving and then I realized like what actually was the breakthrough for me there was to number one be with the fact that what someone else you know says about me thinks about me actually all that matters is how I feel about me so is this opportunity to take something that could have been I didn't even get far enough into like thinking about dating to think about that like maybe I would my age would be too much whatever so all of a sudden I was confronted with it and I was like oh this is the point like this is actually the moment we don't get to just heal in in a silo we have to meet these moments where we go nope I'm not gonna buy into that belief yep and so I just said I wish you well I hope you find everything you're looking for and then it was not that the next day I was like you know what I'm so proud of myself like I remember I woke up I had lunch I had lunch planned with a girlfriend I put on a great outfit and I just was like no without with or without someone else's validation like I am doing things right now actively that make me fall more in love with myself and it was in that energy that then I ended up meeting the person I did date for a little while but it was like I wish I could go back to a former version of myself and even just see it's like in all these little moments where you do you notice that like something flares up in you you either feel really rejected by someone or they're pointing to like the very thing that you're insecure about and that you feel like that's the reason why you're not getting their love and attention but it was like in those moments when i noticed my tendency to you know i remember just like going on a rant i was like these unhealed boys out here and i was like no what's like what is the honest truth right now and i softened into my heart and i was like that hurt like my i'm i'm a little sad that person didn't even take the time to get to know me and that that hurts because I really do want love and I remember something so powerful in me shifted because you're right it's like especially like we are very powerful women we're building things of our own it's so easy for me to be in that in that energy where it's if I imagine it if I imagine receiving that energy like it's not very welcoming it's like I've had to learn to soften into the places yes and be honest with myself when something really hurts and notice how differently i feel like i engage with the world when i allow myself to feel all of those feelings yeah 100 and actually saying you know i've in communication like with family with friends with people you love it is actually a very simple but powerful practice to just say ouch like when someone says to you like ouch like that hurt like it actually doesn't need to be super complicated but i had a situation like that happened this like man through this matchmaker or something reached out and we were like talking and then he was like or maybe it was like one app I was on for a bit when I was on the apps and he was like you know I realized you know with your age like I want to be dating for four years and he's like you're so impressive and so amazing but with your age I want to date for four years and then you know I want to have four kids and so I'm just trying to think with timing and all that like da da da and I was like sir you never asked me if I wanted I was like I was like sir we have yet to break bread did you say that I hope you did we have I literally said we have yet to break bread we've never met one time and you're already like rejecting me for the future life that we could have with four kids what are you actually talking about you think girls are crazy no not normal like and for someone to be that rigid yeah of like you know got this age and it's like I hope you find your woman that's on that same exact path find you a virgo find you a virgo that's gonna be like i got you with that that can be a thing for women of of timelines and it's interesting because i felt like men are more obsessed with timelines i think than i've which isn't that interesting because in my experience other women probably have a different one but yeah not to say that women don't have them but yeah that was an interest that was an interesting encounter and just so eye-opening I think to even in that situation noticing how much I wasn't listening to how I actually felt around this person it was more of like this dopamine rush of feeling like someone was giving me yeah male attention that I hadn't had and didn't I was like back to middle school didn't know what to do with yeah so just like and but I had to get out there I had to do that.

35:40I had to then go through the first like what felt like significant relationship post-divorce, learned so much about myself. And it's just I feel like in a way every single one is teaching me and showing me something about myself that is make it's making me a better friend. It's making me better in my business. And, you know, I just think there's there's so much pressure to not just to create this perfect life like when I think about as an entrepreneur it's like you reach six figures and you got to reach seven it's this and that and it's like the pressure to have this this perfect relationship when maybe some of us really are here to experience ourselves through different relationships like how beautiful will it be if we get to say like okay I was married for 13 years most of it was so beautiful and what if I have another relationship that's 10 years like i god willing if i get to live as long as i hope i get to live i might be someone who's here to love a few different people and that's been hard for me i think to wrap my mind around partly because of the abandonment wound work i'm still doing but also just culturally coming from the midwest you know it's just like i'm my parents are still married 40 plus years would i want their marriage, I wouldn't want that marriage.

37:03That wouldn't be the right marriage for me. So it's this interesting time of now recalibrating after a significant breakup that just felt like it reopened the wound to challenge myself on what I, like what pressure am I putting on myself and what is that blocking me from? I always get curious about with the, yeah, that thought of like, is it my deepest truth to want a long-term forever my life partner or is it my deeper truth to want to have multiple great loves in my life? I've become a little bit of a supplement skeptic lately not because I don't believe in them but because I started asking is my body actually absorbing any of this?

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38:27Start taking supplements your body can actually absorb. Go to absorbmore.com and enter almost 30 at checkout for up to 35 % off your first order. That's absorbmore.com and enter almost 30 at checkout for 35 % off your first order. you know because I'm like am I short changing myself if I say I want a lot of long you know I'm open for that like I actually am like what is the truth of my desire I think I don't have access to the truth of my desire because I don't have the belief that there is a relationship that could be your whole life that will be like fucking amazing and just get better and better and I've had so many people expand me in that like I've talked to so many amazing people that I've just been like oh my god it gets better better all this stuff but it's like in my truth I'm like I don't know if I necessarily believe and all I want is just like greatness in my life and freedom in my life so I'm like however that can be experienced feels like it but I wanted to talk a little bit about like visibility and relationships because I think we as women you know we can hold back when we're in relationships or we can perform or we can present and I think when you're someone that has a social media presence or you're on social media or even like people that are just on apps or dating right now like it very much has to do with the internet so you might be performing on your stories you might be performing in posts and you might be you know like doing certain things online that would be inauthentic what was sort of your journey with like social media in this process of dating as someone that's a public figure and being like seen in grief but then also being seen in your new relationship?

40:04I made the choice not to share the new relationship at all. It was only about six, seven months long. So it felt and especially since there there was a tie in with me having more of a public presence to the betrayal that I experienced that it just and I shared that with the new partner right away that, you know, I I was going to keep this private. I wanted to keep this part of my life private for now and was really respectful of that. He didn't really have a public presence. But I was asking you if you thought that had to do maybe more of what you've experienced around that, even living in a place like L.A.

40:44So I live in Scottsdale. I didn't really think about it much. But the healing journey part of it, I went through most of that completely offline. I mean, people knew that something was going on. I was sharing and just saying, hey, I'm really going through a big season of change or I'm going through things that I'm not ready to share about. And I just really honored that. I let myself really go through it privately, really pulled back from social media. I was barely posting on my personal social media for almost two years. I would do like shared posts with my business account or my event when that was coming up.

41:17I would promote it. But I wasn't sharing personally. I mean, really until like a week ago. I finally, I think I just reached this point where I realized that I know that one of my callings here is it has to do with my voice. It has to do with being able to transmute things that I've walked through in a way that helps others see perspective. I don't think I'm necessarily like my greatest calling is to be someone who is like a teacher, mentor, expert. I really think I'm meant to walk through really hard things as I'm going through them in whatever way I feel safe doing so, sharing more of like a here's a real-time perspective.

42:01And that's hard because I, for the most part, have built a platform, if I'm being honest, wanting to only share the things that are tied with a pretty bow, the healing that's fully finished, not being as vulnerable with even just like right now allowing myself to be more vulnerable and put it out there publicly like I I would love to share my life with someone I would love to build a life with someone I love my life as it is and it feels really vulnerable to to like say that and declare it that this is something like I don't have handled and I just noticed how free I felt when I allowed myself slowly to start sharing in that way and maybe that's not everybody's journey but But I know that like right now what I'm craving is real.

42:46This is why I've always loved you. This is why we've always gravitated toward each other. It's like the people who you know when you're with them, you feel in their energy. They're being, it's congruence. It's like they're saying out loud what's congruent with how they feel. Even if they're not telling you everything that's happening, you deepen your trust in them because you can feel that there's a resonance. Even if they're not saying, here's what's going on. It's, I'm really walking through something. I'm going to share it when I'm ready. And that has given me so much permission to never, ever feel like I have to show up and have it all together when I absolutely don't.

43:25So interesting about the congruence and feeling comfortable and safe and that I've been like doing research on psychopaths because I had a shaman tell me that I was, I attract psychopaths in my life, which is great. So I was like, okay, what are psychopaths? I was like, I don't know if that's true, but basically within psychotherapy, when they talk about psychopaths, people can actually feel and sense when they're with a psychopath because there's incongruence to what they're saying and how their body and their energy is in responding. So there's actually, to pull it back, is a lot of research that says that people can tell when people are out of congruence.

43:58So people can tell when someone isn't being real, when what they're saying isn't what they're thinking or isn't what they're feeling. And so having that ability to have like a settling into this is the truth of how I feel this is what I'm saying this is what my my body is resting upon is so essential to like deep meaningful relationships and having like the power in the room because even if like you say to someone like how's it going if you're like they're like good they're like good good good good you're like something's off but like I'm doesn't seem good yeah you're like you're like I'm not but if someone's like you know what I'm like I'm a little off right now it's like thank god thank god because that's what I'm sensing that's what I'm feeling and now you're calling it out and now I feel closer to you so the more people lie the like further you feel away from them but with social media and like being seen I mean your first post and then you even did one again recently like where you were just like I want to be seen in the in-between I want to be seen in the messy that is so much of what people need to hear right now and need to see I think especially in our girl boss world where there's so many women they're like six seven figures all this kind of stuff like you being like I this is my process what was the edge for you in doing that and walk us through kind of what was like the inspiration between behind being like I'm gonna allow myself to be fully seen online I feel like what was happening is I was coming into such congruence with myself being more honest than I ever had in you know the healing journey even just coming back into like a relationship with feeling my own body yeah that when i went to post like i would think to post the way that i used to which was coming from a heart-centered service-oriented place it wasn't like i was trying to be something totally i didn't know i was totally i was maybe not fully sharing yeah but i paid attention to how other people perceived me or what they said about what you know case in point i remember 2024 when everything was unraveling I hosted what ended up being my biggest event ever there were 800 people I remember getting messages of people being like you're crushing it I see your event meanwhile it's the day after the event I am sobbing in the I had to go and like clean my belongings out of the home that we shared and like things that I knew I wasn't ready to share it in that moment and I just remember feeling like ah this feels so sticky because I know I'm not ready to show this to people yet but I'm just aware that like people see I think it's because we automatically make conclusions about how awesome other people's lives are without even them needing to show us much that the moment someone interrupts that with like yeah this part of my life is great and here's something I'm actively struggling with right now in this moment not the thing I overcame 10 years ago it kind of like breaks us out of that like hypnosis hypnosis is a great way to put it right putting them on a pedestal yeah so as i was thinking about coming back to social media i was feeling like really prompted like i said mainly because i know a lot of my purpose here has to do with using my voice but every time i would go to share something i just i couldn't it was like a block because i just felt what i now realize is i know that like the energy and how it feels when i'm being fully congruent and honest and when it's it's just a little bit shinier i'm putting a little fairy dust on top of it right because i don't want to like be really real about the fact that this fucking sucks or this is like it's also self-honoring sometimes to not yes i do agree you know i do agree you're like sorry this isn't baked enough for y 'all i don't know and i do agree with that because this is now two years later of being in this process so i was meditating one day i i shared this story with you and asking i was like okay you You know, I get a lot of intuitive downloads when I meditate or, you know, journal, have like my morning practice.

47:49And I was asking specifically like for content ideas for business. And I said, you know, I'm really ready. Like show me what to do. It was kind of like one of those. Show me what to post and I'll post it. And clear as day got kind of like the intuitive ping to publicly declare online that I am single that I am really intentionally open to love this year and I just remember I was like you no no because it was like that's not what I asked for I asked for what's gonna grow my business and it was very clear it was like uh-huh and proceed and so I just sat there noticing how much resistance I had to it noticing all the things like what if this person sees it what if that that's like so cringy what is this judgy aunt who I don't even care about her opinion gonna say It's like all of it.

48:38And in that moment, new, it's like whenever you feel that much of a visceral reaction to something, of course, there's a breakthrough on the other side. So I sat on it all day. I mean, I had meetings and things like that, but I knew that I felt into how it would feel waking up the next morning, not having taken that action. And I was like, what, honestly, what's the worst that could happen? So I gave myself one record, no, like one shot, one kill. Wow. Recorded it once. Knew I did breath work before because I wanted to feel connected to myself. Yes. I wanted to experiment with sharing something that felt so raw and so vulnerable.

49:16Like because to me it's like sharing something vulnerable in business isn't as vulnerable as like literally sharing my heart and saying this is what I desire. And you know it was this whole video that I recorded and posted it. It was it was love. I have so many amazing women in my life like got immediately like the most amazing comments and that's great but it even that aside how I felt once I allowed like the complete adrenaline rush to go through my body like I physically felt unsafe being that exposed and I think this is important to talk about because if you're online if you're creating content if you are resonating with what we're talking about of bringing more authenticity the part of you that wants to keep protecting and controlling how others perceive you is gonna see that as a threat.

50:03So it did. And, you know, I really worked through that with all the tools, went and moved my body, literally went to the gym and picked up like the heaviest weights that I could and got it out through a workout. And then waking up the next morning and, you know, my girlfriends were texting me. They're like, no warning. You just hard launched that and no warning. Like, you know, they were just like, how do you feel? That was like so bold or whatever. And I just said, you know, what's the best part about it? yes like the intention was to state that I'm one of the things I want is to call in love this year like I didn't heal this hard to not go after every single thing that I want and I do want deep love and connection I know that I am here to experience that and in the immediate aftermath it wasn't about like oh did your dms flood with men they didn't I mean they didn't totally they didn't just spoiler alert they didn't um for anyone who's like oh yeah it's just easy for you um i had never loved myself more like i got the very thing i got more connected to what love feels like and therefore i know i'm one step closer to that but also do you know how many like female followers came from that unintentionally that wasn't that wasn't the intention but I just think it showed me and it gave my nervous system new safety in the fact that, you know, it actually doesn't even matter if people liked it, didn't like it, are laughing behind my back.

51:33I did it. It felt really vulnerable and I still love me. I'm still here with me. Nothing, I didn't get the immediate outcome that I'm saying I want, nor was I expecting it, but that doesn't matter. I love me. like I'm holding me and so there's so much about this this phase that I'm in right now that I that I do know that I meant to share more about because it's the thing that a former version of myself would have believed you're not supposed to say I mean another one is I'm completely was reset down to zero financially and I think as someone who has like a publicly very successful business now do I have my business do I do I have the ability to generate more income of course but like to sit and that was like the next thing that I shared it was like this is like I'm normalizing starting over at 42 years old I'm starting over relationally I'm starting over financially like in every sense of the word every part of my life was completely reset down to zero and I actually find that i do truly find that exciting are there moments that i slip into like i have to really notice when i'm getting flooded with like fear projection thoughts yes that still happens but i think the biggest thing i can say back to your question is just that i feel so free because i realize now i'm not just putting out a version that i'm hoping other people like i'm just putting like the realest version of me out there in ways that feel authentic i'm not sharing everything but it's like that's all we want is i want i want to build relationships in my business i want to build relationships in my personal life based on allowing people the opportunity to love who i really am not just the parts of them that i was showing them before so i think that's where social media can actually be a gift you know one of my favorite pastors he says god could not god cannot bless who you pretend to be so you got to be yourself for god to bless you and it can be it's funny because i think when i think about fully expressed and like women being fully expressed in the work that i do like women kind of go to like okay how can i be on stage how can i be like top podcast host how can i be like doing all this stuff and it's like it actually happens in micro moments of the moment you're not going to use a filter or wear no makeup or say the thing you're afraid or like like fullest expression of self happens in the micro microdoses like you really have to microdose it because you as that example you did a microdose more of a macro than a micro but you did a dose and then your part was like I am fucking not cool about this this is whatever and you being able to regulate and be with that part allowed you to increase your strength and fortitude for bigger yeah and that's why you got more followers that's that way you got more people but what can happen is if you do the micro you do the macro dose and then your part comes retaliating back at you and she's like this sucks this failed i'm scared you know then you can stop and then that can keep you from it so it's so important from a nervous system perspective from a parts perspective to do it in doses and like metabolize what it feels like to be seen because for so many women you know throughout history and then also in past lives it was not safe to be seen it was not safe to be visible it was not safe to be exposed and in this lifetime there's so many reasons why it's not and so it is very normal and natural to have to expand your capacity for visibility in your life and to be seen and okay and I also think there's something psychic and psycho-spiritual about social media and you can feel the energetics of eyes and of perception and of people perceiving and feeling into you and I have felt energetically more energy come to me when I've had moments like that you can kind of feel it in your field a little bit more and so there is in the work that I teach it's like a spiritual fortitude to visibility that's also important because this isn't just anything that I'm doing with any woman that I work with is not just surface level it's always like what is the deepest level of this and spiritual aspect and there is that level where you're like yeah there's I felt you know there's a lot of eyes there's a lot of attention there's a lot of whatever and how can I feel comfortable and confident in like who I am and how I'm showing up um I love how you two like explained how you expressed the desire for love and I think it's so interesting because for so many women and very powerful women who have so much and are so successful and make stuff happen they it is almost the more vulnerable thing to say I want love because you can't control it that's so good I didn't really think of it that way you know for because I mean all my women all my women that I work with that are successful and single it's the one thing in their life they cannot control yeah they get the job they get the money they get the friends they get the body all of that whatever and it's so tough because it is that thing that is so out of your control and I remember in my path of my process I was single for the first year and then I dated for like a year before I was with with my um partner and then I remember it was like a week before we got we got together I was like I'm ready for my man I'm ready to date someone but all the time before even to men I was dating I was like I'm just having fun I'm just enjoying myself and I and I was not claiming my desire the truth of my desire and I remember I had a friend one of our Ashley Stahl one of our friends she was like girl she's like chick I don't know why you keep doing this she's like you're the deepest woman I know and you just keep acting like you like want to just hang out she's like literally like I don't know what like kind of world we're living in and I was like dang that is so real you don't even want to do that with your friends no literally I'm like I'm like I'm whatever it's like it's chill and um and it was so true and it just gave me permission to be like no I want deep love and intimacy and I think what's scary about that is maybe not having it maybe it's delayed maybe it's you know not coming and all of that and you just kind of like feel that feeling and so what for you did it feel like to finally settle into the reclamation of that desire for love especially when you know by society both of us like we should be married with like three children by now yeah and making sourdough right now right now god bless people who make sourdough by the way it's just i like to eat it i um so what i realized about myself that i ended up sharing my update video wasn't what people would think because what it made me confront was how much i don't like to be seen trying yes i don't like to be seen publicly declaring what i want i didn't make that connection of why the the love part felt so vulnerable it wouldn't have felt vulnerable to state like oh i want i want to grow my business to xyz this year that wouldn't have felt that vulnerable.

58:27And it was, it was this awareness that I probably shortcut the things that I am allowing to come into my life by not being really, being honest, being bold enough to say this is exactly what I want. And also knowing enough about masculine and feminine dynamics to know what I've had in relationships before, what I would like to experience, what I'm working on embodying, is that I want to know what it feels like to, again, allow all of me to be seen and experienced and allow myself to be more in the receiving mode of it. And at the same time, I also acknowledge that there's, it's like the, I always think of the movie Hitch.

59:14Do you love that movie as much as I do? Where he's like, you go 90 and then they come 10. It's like, you have to, I do think there's a part, like we have to state our desire. we get the cosmic ball rolling. So before for me that was joining a dating app. I remember being like this is going to be my way of signaling I'm open and I knew right now I don't want to spend the time and energy on apps maybe I'll go back to them again but that was what I was meditating on in that that morning and it one of the things then was like great here's another way to do it. So I looked at it more as this trust exercise of saying I'm putting this out here who knows what that's going to lead to or where it'll go or what'll come from it.

59:55Business or personal, it doesn't matter because I was putting out there exactly what I wanted and that's not something I would normally do. So I think when we do take bold action, especially that goes against the norm of our conditioning, that's where magic happens. I mean, I feel like the most actually in dating is you going against whatever your ego doesn't want you to do. So like so often with women that I work with it's like they're like no I'm not getting on the apps I'm like you got to get on the apps that's how I knew I needed to because I was so literally to it same for me I had so much judgment and I'm like okay that means I'm going on them apps and then for some of the women that are like on the apps I'm like you're going to get off the apps and you're going to trust it's like really like you need to be given and like prescribed the exact thing that you do not want to do that's making you so uncomfortable that you have judgment about that you like it's not even like because you're not trusting your intuition it's just like I feel like for me and dating I had to break my ego around stuff around like apps around whatever just had to like cut and it gave me so much more grace and compassion for people that like we're dating and we're on the apps and like an understanding of that world but after at a point I was like god no more I'm not doing this anymore I was like you're gonna have to bring them in other ways and you know god did but also because I had opened up my field to welcome men in and that's another thing too is you can date not on the apps but you have to be open in your field yes you have to be open and available for and and when you're open in your field if you are you know open you're gonna have a lot of men come approach you talk to you whatever and it's your you know your job to say yes or no to the ones that you want um and to discern so it's not just like a one-way thing but what would you tell for a woman that wants to be more visible she wants to be more seen she wants to be more heard like what advice would you give to her i love what you said and what i teach too is the micro dosing aspect of it because wanting to be more visible there's so many layers to it right it's the why is it are we wanting to be visible because we didn't feel seen before i think the more you heal the different layers to come to visibility with the cleanest possible energy but also just give yourself grace that none of us did that at first we were all just totally posting posting and praying totally me at the club literally me with like bottles of domperion in miami it was like my little fitness influencer era like my avocado toast oh yeah of course same me too i was like this is a stunning graffiti wall i mean do you please and let me put mine was like oh yeah the colors were insane but i missed those days like it was so nice i was like this is a stunning landscape picture and now every photo is like this is my face it's like no sick of it but you You know, for me, I think it's been the depth of the healing journey, doing the inner work that you talk about so much, to get to the point where I am good with me.

1:02:52It's like realizing how much of visibility in relationships, in social media, in my business is filtered through like, no, am I good with me? So I could, it was a cool experience to put that vulnerable video out there. And I even had people make kind of shitty comments like, like, I saw your video. you know just things that like triggered the part of me that was like i told you not to do that yeah and just getting in those moments to be like am i still good with me do i love me do i love her courage like i would i would bend the bitch watching the woman put that video out there wishing i could have so giving myself opportunities to experience a new reality a corrective experience realizing that the more I build my own reverence for myself my trust for myself my ability to know that love or not I've got me has given me so much freedom to show up in a way that I is congruent with how I want to show up and that's all that matters at the end of the day I just think I'm going to take this year to I'm going to do this in my business I'm going to do this online I'm going to do this in my personal life it's like no if I'm having fun doing it if I love that piece of content if I like I I love editing reels like to to music to like where things just like it drops and then you like get on stage it's literally crack for me that is that's my nightmare I am just gonna let myself have so much fun so much fun because also I think that that goes back to the authenticity piece is like when you are you know you're experiencing someone who's having fun they feel like they feel good with themselves you're drawn to it and I don't have to manufacture that I think before I was always trying to like man you not manufacture but like almost dissect what's the formula how do I get there it's the inner work surprise it's like the lesson is always do the inner work everything else gets easier I think what I I loved what you said where you looked at the why first of like why do you want to be seen invisible and actually that's actually like a lot of it's funny because I'll do that with women that I work with and it's funny because that sometimes takes us to a dead end which breaks a lot of momentum in what way like if you're like if you ask a room full of women why do you want to be visible barely any of them know barely I've I've rarely had them know and if you give them time they will know because I want to share my story because I want to you know whatever and people find answers any answer is fine it's just most people don't know why and and there could be a not knowing why from a soul perspective of it's the true heart's desire of your purpose and destiny pulling you forward and then it also could be your inner child that's desperately trying to be seen by you so there's you know sometimes unconscious and then conscious ways to be seen but I think and so the way that I think the why is so powerful what you're talking about is because I always like to go with like how can you just be you and if that makes you more visible that makes you more visible yeah and like you just becoming I'm becoming visible to this part of me that like has this expression you're becoming visible to yourself there was a part of me that wanted to be seen I let her be visible I let this imperfect girl in process girl in progress be seen in the world and that is like that magnetism of you looking at yourself and saying I love you I like I'm here for you is the magnetism that gets true visibility and that's how you can also have visibility that's safe because if it's your inner child looking for visibility it's always going to find the way that it's going to be it was wounded you know you're not enough you're not pretty enough you're not whatever like so you're just gonna have this wounding pattern but if it's the integrated part of you that's like I'm just so desperately I'm so desperate to just be in more congruence in more honesty in more truth in more of my integrity with this that's like where you can really go and that's like the point where visibility becomes like the ultimate easy thing to do the ultimate like the most fruitful thing you can do and then the most serving thing you can do um and so I'm really excited to see like I was so funny like I mean it is crazy because I saw both pieces of content I was like this is so magnetic like so magnetic like and I was so inspired because I'm like yeah I'm visible and I'm expressed and there's levels to my expression I think actually in my relationship in my personal life I'm way more expressed than I am online and I think people would think that's crazy but I I know that to be true interesting yeah I you know so much of what you just reflected back there too about the why I've been playing this game with myself of really like checking in before I post or sometimes even like before I record and just saying why am i doing this yes what is it and and so then sometimes it'll be like i want to share this x message okay how do i want it to feel and why do i want it to feel that way and for me again now i kind of have a baseline of what it felt like to it's like to go just beyond what my identity that loves to control how i'm perceived in order to feel safe yep what she feels comfortable with So is it, okay, now you're going to post and you're going to just be fresh from the gym and you're not going to have makeup on because you're 42 and you have thoughts about like your face when you see it without makeup.

1:08:15So it's like, can I just keep pushing the bounds of like where what's being triggered is my own inability to be good with myself and finding the part that's triggered, realizing what's actually coming up. And so I'm almost just using it. And I think that's what people ultimately will resonate with, is I'm using it just as my platform to do that deeper inner work within myself by pushing the limits of what I am willing to be seen doing. Is it I'm willing to be seen trying? I'm willing to be seen in like an aesthetically less perfect, less curated way? Is it what I'm saying? Is it the vulnerability?

1:08:55And then for me, the other opposite end of it is allowing myself also to be seen in my full joy, in my full light, because that also has been really uncomfortable for me because I fear that it's going to trigger other people. So just realizing how much time I was thinking about other people's experience with something I was sharing versus my own and realizing all that I was doing was I was not looking at the fact that I was being triggered. I was being triggered by myself. And the more I'm focusing on that and how it could contribute to someone else by pressing against those edges of what feels fully self-expressed.

1:09:32It's been an interesting – I feel like it'll open up a lot for me in a lot of areas of my life, but it's been really profound over the last two weeks or so, just really leaning into that. Yeah, I'm going to do – it was funny. I'm recording an episode today on social media as like shadow work because you're like, oh, I can't be seen in process. Oh, my age, there's something wrong with me. like oh like for me it's like oh I don't look good or I look don't look perfect or I didn't say this clearly you know what I mean it's like my everyone's are different too I have to be perfect I have to be smart I have to be I have a friend who like she's like I literally don't care what I look like and I know I always seriously sound smart I just care about what my outfit looks like interesting right no it's crazy I'm like my fantasy would be that like I'm like she's I would literally I'm like she's like no I never listen to what I say I know it's good I'm like I'm obsessed with you like you're my queen but then it's just seeing an outfit she's like oh my god this outfit sucked I'm like what and that's interesting too is like noticing what you're either triggered by or inspired or expanded by in someone else so yeah that's like your intuition saying I want growth there totally like I want to just be okay with everything that I say and trust that it's good and trust that it's like clear and I think mine would be and you know 82 percent of women stop themselves from going for what they want or you know putting themselves out there because of their looks because they're thinking they're fat or they're not attractive and I think for me that's so much of my work is like how can I just fully accept myself how I look who I am on the internet you know I think that's like so dumb but it's like 101 my stopping point sometimes you know I think for a lot of women it is well think about I mean never before in history have we had this much visibility of ourselves?

1:11:18I mean, when I'm on Zoom every day. To be a cave woman. Girl, I know. No mirrors. Yeah. Dream. Dream fantasy. Every once in a while you gaze in the pond. You're like, sis, you're like, who is that? You think it's like God. You're like, yo, that's God like talking to me. Like that would be a dream. A dream. A dream. But nowadays I'm looking at my little box on Zoom. I hide self-view. Life hack. Hide self-view so you're not looking at yourself. You can't be looking at yourself on Zoom all day. No, no. That is like cruel and unusual. Yeah. What are you looking forward to now? Like what do you think is next?