Trump Says He’s ‘Banning’ CNN, MS NOW and Politico from the WH

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0:44There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Good evening from the newsroom. We're tracking two breaking stories tonight. One, an unfolding protest at the Kennedy Center. The other, a presidential ban from the White House for CNN. We begin tonight at the White House. The President of the United States announcing today with no warning that he has banned CNN from the White House along with MSNOW and Politico.

1:18He announced the ban in a social media post that read in part, I am proud to announce that effective immediately, I'm banning fake news CNN, MSNOW, who recently changed their name from MSNBC due to lack of viewership and credibility. and Politico from the White House as a result of their constant reporting fake news. He went on to say other fake news media outlets to follow. He later spoke about the ban from the Oval Office, and we're going to play some of what he said in a moment. But first, just to make two things kind of clear. First, no actual journalist or news organization wants to become the story.

1:49The job, our job, and there are fewer and fewer outlets doing this, is to report what is happening, to try to make sense of it, present various viewpoints about it. President Trump has now thrust CNN into the headlines and announced a ban from the White House, which is often referred to as the People's House, a symbol of our democracy that belongs to every American, not to any one president. Secondly to the accusation of fake news, CNN has released a statement. It reads, CNN stands fully behind our White House team and their fair and accurate reporting. We have a right under the U.S. Constitution to do that reporting without hindrance or interference from the government.

2:22Should the ban, which President Trump threatened to go ahead, it would be an illegal assault on that fundamental and constitutionally protected right. Now, the president was repeatedly asked about the ban by reporters at the event in the Oval Office today. Sir, Mr. President, earlier today you posted that you intend to ban CNN, Politico, and MSNOW from the White House. Yeah. Every president takes an oath to uphold the Constitution, which includes the First Amendment. I do, too. How do you justify such a ban? Much more so than you. because they're fake news. You get so tired of reading and seeing fake news.

3:01When you look at CNN, it's just fake. You need a free press. You need a fair press and an honest press. What are you doing this ban now? Is there a particular reason? No, no reason. No, just because... No, it's really just cumulative stories over the last two years. They purposely write negative news, And they do that because they want to try and diminish the Republicans and a Republican administration. The freedom of the press is enshrined in the First Amendment. Thank you for telling me that. Are you trying to intimidate the press from doing its job? No, no, no. I dislike dishonest press, like you.

3:41I think you're terrible. But I dislike dishonest. I like to see honest press. Well, for that last reporter, Catherine Lucy of Bloomberg News, It is not the first time the president has lashed out at her specifically. Back in November when she asked him a question you may remember about his connection to Jeffrey Epstein, he cut her off and said, quiet piggy. As far as CNN reporters, I should note that they were not part of the pool of media sign to cover that event in the Oval Office today, but they continue to report inside the building and the White House grounds. And our CNN senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes, who joins me now, she is still there on the north lawn of the White House.

4:15So, Kristen, you're still there. Is there any clarity on what this ban actually means? No, Anderson, we still don't have any idea what this will actually look like. And I do want to make clear, when you talk about the pool, we are talking about the TV networks that are on a rotation, on a schedule, that they are the ones who film it for all of the TV stations. That's why sometimes you see me in there asking questions. Sometimes you see, as today, another network in there asking questions. We're not scheduled to be part of the pool today or through the weekend. So we're still unclear what is going to happen next.

4:49President Trump was kind of asked the logistics of this during that Oval Office meeting, and he didn't seem to quite understand the question, meaning he was asked specifically, are you taking away their press badges? Are you taking them out of the pool? And he said he was going to take the ban as far as it could go, that he didn't want CNN, et cetera, in his office. He didn't want them here. But again, we still don't have any clarity or understanding from the White House how they or President Trump intend on handling this. And as you can see, we're actually one of the few media outlets that is still here reporting.

5:25Everyone else has gone home for the night. President Trump is not here. He is in Sterling, Virginia on his golf course for a political dinner. But they have not offered us any clarity on what exactly this means. All right. Kristen Holmes, I appreciate it. Thank you. Good to have you there. Joining us now, former federal prosecutor Jeff Toobin and CNN senior political commentators Anna Navarro and David Urban. So, Jeff, is there a way this, I mean, is there any way this ban from the president is constitutional? Well, Anderson, you know, I'm usually wary about making ironclad predictions, but I'm going to make an exception tonight.

5:59This is never going to stand up in court, in part because the law is clear, but in part also because the federal district court in Washington just decided this exact case a couple of years ago. In 2018, as you may remember, our former colleague Jim Acosta had his press pass, his hard pass, his permanent pass to the White House removed by the president because they didn't like his coverage. And the federal district court in Washington, a Trump appointee, said you can't do that. He said, in part, the president can't pick and choose based on content, based on the reporting he doesn't like. But also, he said, you can't just remove a government benefit without due process.

6:44And so under both of those grounds, the Jim Acosta ban was overturned. And I expect that this ban, however it actually works in the real world, will be overturned by a court very promptly. David Urban, as someone who worked for President Trump, advised his campaign. Is this what do you think of this? You know, Anderson, to just point, I think the president and, you know, I come on here every night and say we could be we should be talking about a lot of different things today. For example, instead of talking about banning the media, the president does have good news. There's a report out. The U.S.

7:18Census Bureau put a report out that said poverty rates in America are a historic low, all time low in the United States. As a matter of fact, real wages, real medium household income jumped 2.6 % to$87 ,000, the highest inflation-adjusted level since census records began in 1967. The lowest poverty rate in America since 1967. He doesn't seem to care. And instead of talking about that like all day and crowing about that great news, we're talking about this. And nobody in America cares about this. They care about how their lives are affected and spreading the good news. If he wants good stories, talk about good news.

8:00Anna, President Trump said today there's something wrong with a country that can allow people to write purposely negative stories. It seems like the First Amendment protects exactly that kind of speech, critical reporting, regardless about how the president, this president or any president, because pretty much every president probably has had some dream about removing reporters from the White House. Anderson, it's actually the opposite. There is something wrong with a country that does not allow for critical things to be written. And I know this because I fled one of those countries. I fled communism in Nicaragua.

8:32And I live here in Miami, which is full of people who fled communism in Cuba, fled communism in Venezuela. And let me tell you, one of the first things, and I don't say this lightly, I don't make these similarities and comparisons lightly. One of the first things that communist dictators, dictators of any ilk, do when they get to power is attack the free press, censor the free press, and try to silence the free press. And what Trump did today, what he's threatening to do today, is not coming in a vacuum, right? One of the first acts he took as president was to ban the AP because they refused to go along with his insanity of capriciously renaming the Gulf of Mexico.

9:10It's the banning of reporters from the Pentagon. It's the berating of female reporters constantly. It's the ruse that he played on the media when he got on that catering cart on Air Force One in Turkey. It's over and over and over again, the attacks on the press, the hour-plus speech he gave at the White House Correspondents' Dinner against the free press. You know that line he uses where the press is the enemy of the people? I have heard that line before from Ortega, who calls the press and his opponents enemigos de la humanidad. So people have to be very careful, and we have to condemn it. And I would ask Republicans, I would ask Trump supporters to think to themselves, how would they feel if any Democratic president, if Barack Obama had suddenly capriciously banned Fox News?

10:05How would what would they be reacting? We can't make this partisan. We've got to make this about American democracy, American values and the First Amendment. Yeah, she's referencing Manuel Ortega, who was the leader of the Sandinistas back in Nicaragua. Jeff, I mean, if the ban is reversed by the courts, would those news organizations be reinstated at the White House immediately? Immediately. Immediately. I mean, you just can't do this. I mean, this is so obviously unconstitutional at both levels as a violation of the First Amendment and a violation of due process. You know, I would like to see what the rest of the press corps is doing, whether they are going to show some solidarity, because this is an attack on all journalism.

10:47It's not just an attack on CNN, MSNOW and Politico, because if a president can assert that sympathetic coverage can be allowed, but coverage you don't like can't be allowed, they're coming for you next. In fact, the president said in his statement that more more to follow. So, you know, I can't be as as articulate and passionate as Anna was. But I think she is so right about this is what happens in authoritarian countries. It's not this is a pretty bipartisan. This should be a bipartisan issue. And as the president likes to say, we'll see what happens. Yeah. You know, I just say, Anderson, real quickly, two points there, Jeff.

11:33The White House Correspondents Association, Jackie Heinrich, who's the president, put out a statement condemning the president's actions. So we'll see what follows up on that. And number two, simply by banning people from showing up does not mean that the coverage stops. The coverage will continue. The coverage of the Pentagon continued. People are not allowed in the building, and yet the coverage continues. But he wants to influence that coverage by weaponizing the FCC, by filing frivolous lawsuits, by extorting money out of networks, by threatening them verbally, by berating and attacking the journalists.

12:06He wants to influence that coverage. I would submit this. The way you influence coverage is you bring reporters back behind the podium, back into the communications shop, and you talk to them, and you share more information, and you help shape the story from within. You don't ban them from the building. But David, it's interesting because they've already done that. And, you know, they brought in a whole range of, you know, I don't know if they're influencers per se or people from the sort of non-traditional pro-mega outlets into the White House press corps, you know, giving them access at the Pentagon, giving them access.

12:41They're in the briefings, all of which, you know, is was commented on, but, you know, has been going forward. And they're certainly getting their message out. Yeah, no, Anderson, what I mean is if you're fearful there's going to be a bad story, right, you talk to the reporter. That's rule number one in communications, right? If you think someone's going to write a bad piece about you or your issue, you bring them in and you talk to them. And so by locking the door and keeping people out, you're not going to get better. Right, but has he always been this thin-skinned? I mean, obviously he was used to getting he was used to getting he was used to getting, you know, positive coverage when he was just, you know, sort of, you know, the larger than life businessman in New York where the stakes weren't that high.

13:26Well, listen, when I think the president, look, when he saved Woolman Rink, remember back in the day when in Central Park, right, the president came in and swooped in and is Donald Trump and was the hero of Central Park. I mean, that's the kind of I'm not sure he's a hero of Central Park. Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure. Well, I'm not sure that's the one you want to bring up. You want to focus on the skating rink of the Wilman rink in Central Park. Yeah, we're talking about a skating rink, okay? There's five men for whom he asked for the death penalty that would disagree with him being the hero of Central Park, David.

13:54Anna, you're proving his point right there. There was a good story about Donald Trump saving Central Park, saving the Wilman rink in Central Park. And so I think that's the kind of coverage he wants. But you don't get that coverage unless you engage with the media. You tell your story. If you push back on narratives that aren't favorable. He's certainly engaging with the media. He's calling them piggy and insulting women primarily. David, you get good stories by being a good president. If you are throwing a temper tantrum and wanting to demolish the Kennedy Center because your name is not on it, you're not going to get a good story.

14:29If you are hauling regular Americans into court and accusing them of vandalism because your pool guy screwed up the repair work of the reflecting pool, you're not going to get a good story. You get good stories by doing good things, behaving like a decent human being and being a good president. And I just I just I'm violently agreeing with you in terms of there's good news. The president should be talking about every day. Good things the administration is doing every day. He should be focusing on those, not the reflecting pool, not the Kennedy Center. Talk about the economic issues that everyday Americans care about.

15:04The administration is doing well. Jeff, I want to give you the final thought. Well, I just want to notice, and, you know, my pal David, you know, he's treating this like a media management story. And this is not a media management story. This is a government censorship story. And, you know, that's what this is about. This is about the government telling which newscast, which broadcasters or which newscasters can cover the stories in the way that they want. That's what this is about. It's about government censorship. And, David, you shouldn't be talking about media management. You should be talking about what this is really about.

15:43But, Jeff, it's not censoring. Listen, we can still write. We can still talk. CNN is still going to cover the president. It's still going to happen. We're not going to be in the room. I mean, it's trying to it's trying to eliminate access to the president by these reporters so that they're not confronted. He's not confronted by, you know, a female who is asking him direct questions. Listen, Anderson, I'm not saying it's good. I wouldn't advise it. No, I know you're not. I think I think it's I think it's just bad politics. And I would talk about, like I said, talk about the positive things. Not like you want to you have positive stories.

16:16Talk about the positive things you're doing. David Urban. Thank you, Jeff Toobin and Navarro as well. Appreciate it. Coming up more on the Trump White House ban from a Democratic senator who calls it the behavior of an authoritarian. And later, exclusive reporting sources say a faulty U.S. intelligence report generated with the help of AI almost started a war, according to one source, between the U.S. and China. Details on that.

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17:40Our breaking news tonight. President Trump says he is banning CNN, Politico, and MSNOW from the White House because he says he doesn't like how the news is being covered. A reporter to remain at the White House tonight, at least, and when asked about it this afternoon, he threatened to ban other news organizations as well. Joining us now is CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter. Has MSNOW or Politico, have they commented? Politico has, saying in a statement, we will continue to fairly report on this White House as well as future ones. I thought that was a nice touch. and will vigorously defend our First Amendment rights.

18:08That's code, of course, for we're already on the phone with our lawyers. And certainly that is going on this evening. MS Now has chosen not to respond with a statement, in part because I'm told they didn't want to engage in what they consider threat by tweet. That's what the president was doing today. But there was a message sent to the White House correspondents and reporters there saying, of course, management has their back and they're prepared to take action if necessary. So you see all three outlets preparing the same way. And the White House Correspondents Association, they put out some sort of a statement.

18:34Yes, saying that there's solidarity here. And we've seen that from places like the New York Times as well tonight. The New York Times saying, quote, this is another attempt to restrict Americans' knowledge about their own government. And I think that's an important point here. It's not just about the White House. It is about the government writ large. We've seen other efforts by the Trump administration to restrict access, most famously at the Pentagon, with Pete Hegseth pushing reporters out of the Pentagon complex. And yet some of the most important stories reported by the American news media this week have been out of the Pentagon, out of the military.

19:02Those photos published by CBS and ABC of destroyed U.S. air bases. These reports from CNN about this incredible threat about AI. So we continue to see so much great reporting being done, sometimes from the outside instead of the inside. It's a reminder that access is important, but it's not the only way to cover this government. And journalists every day are coming up with more information, whether they're on the inside or the outside. Brian Stelter, thanks very much. Appreciate it. Joining us now is Democratic Delaware Senator Chris Coons, ranking member of the Select Committee on Ethics. Senator Coons, I'm wondering what your reaction was to hearing the President Trump's banning news organizations.

19:40Anderson, this is blatantly unconstitutional. The president's already lost several cases in court where he tried to take away press passes for individuals like Jim Acosta, for outlets like the AP. And as was just being discussed, months ago, Secretary Hegseth threw out of the Pentagon much of the press that otherwise previously had daily regular access to the Pentagon. We're in the middle of a war. It's been going on seven months and it's going badly. The president just wants to control the coverage of his presidency. The best way for him to get better coverage is to stop doing things that are immoral or illegal or unconstitutional or just downright foolish, from his ongoing tariff war with Canada to his failed war in Iran.

20:30So, frankly, I'm wondering tonight, Anderson, where are the Republicans? All of us in Congress take an oath to uphold the Constitution. institution, you couldn't have a clearer violation of the First Amendment than the president of the United States throwing a fit in the Oval Office and saying, I don't like the coverage of this outlet, this outlet, this outlet. You're out of here. That is what an authoritarian does. That's not what an American should do. And in Congress, we should be speaking out loudly against this prior restraint on a few specific news outlets because Trump doesn't like the coverage he's getting.

21:09President Trump was asked what this ban would mean in practice, and I just want to play what he said. A very simple ban. I don't want him in my office. I don't want him here. I would say the ban would go as far as you can. And if they could straighten themselves out, you know, if they could straighten themselves out, I'd love it. I'm not even sure what that means, how they straighten themselves out. But what do you think happens now? I mean, I assume this will end up in court. Yes, absolutely. Look, the outlets that were restricted from access to the Pentagon have been litigating that issue for months.

21:49And that's part of what's going on here. Press outlets, instead of dedicating the time and resources to fully covering what's happening, whether it's the critically important upcoming meeting with Xi Jinping, the urgency of dealing with AI, or a story that broke today about highly classified F-35 parts being somehow misdirected by Lockheed Martin and possibly taken by China. Instead of covering those stories, or just covering the rise in the cost of gas, news outlets have to spend money and time litigating to make sure the president respects the First Amendment to the Constitution. Have you, you talked about, you talked about Republicans.

22:33Have you heard anything from Republican colleagues in the Senate? No, I haven't. And I was looking right before we came on to see whether there's been any public statements. Look, in some previous incidents, for example, where the FCC commissioner was threatening to take away the licenses of certain news outlets because he didn't like their comedians making fun of Donald Trump. There were some Republicans who stood up and said this is just unconstitutional and should stop. I would like to believe some will. But look, Secretary Hegseth is someone who has over and over shown he's more interested in fighting culture wars than winning real ones.

23:15He was just this week talking about the importance of grooming and height to weight ratios for the service members who will be attending his annual status of forces address. So I'm not expecting that either the president or the secretary are going to reverse course. And my hope would be that some Republicans will stand up for the Constitution and push back. How much do you think this is an attempt just to distract by the president? I mean, he knows, obviously, so it'll, you know, It'll grind through courts. It'll take time. Maybe it plays well with some people in his base. And it basically distracts from the war, which is obviously not going the way the president wanted it to go, even though he still calls it a war.

24:01Other people in his administration, including the secretary of war, suddenly seems to not want to call it a war. I mean, think about that. The man who is supposed to be so manly that he's changed the name from secretary of Defense to Secretary of War, even though we've lost 18 service members and hundreds and hundreds have been injured and there's been billions of dollars of damage to American facilities and bases, planes and drones, the Secretary of Defense can't call it a war. I mean, that is striking. And to your point, Anderson, President Trump has a long practice of trying to change the news cycle, doing things abruptly to distract.

24:42Here in Delaware, the price of gas just shot past $4.40 a gallon. It's gone up something like 50 cents in the last month. And now that the Houthis, an Iranian proxy group based in Yemen, have largely taken over control of the Red Sea, Iran and its proxy, the Houthis, have control over an even greater part, two really critical pinch points of the global supply chain by which oil and gas and fertilizer move throughout the world. So prices are going to go up even higher. I find it stunning that President Trump would rather have us talking about his unconstitutional ban on three news outlets than the ongoing news about our domestic economy and this war with Iran.

25:29But that may be the choice he made today in order to get this news rather than worse news on the news tonight. Senator Chris Coons, I really appreciate your time. Thank you. Up next, the latest on AI. I'll speak to New York Times columnist Tom Friedman about his new piece titled It's Already Too Late to Stop the AI Threat. And later, we'll take you a lot of the Kennedy Center where protest continues against the actions by the Trump administration and the possibility of him tearing down the Kennedy Center. We'll be right back.

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26:33Exclusive reporting tonight from CNN. Sources say a faulty intelligence report generated with the help of an AI chatbot set off a chain of events that nearly ended in the United States boarding a Chinese-flagged vessel, which could have obviously created a very large-scale international incident. The intelligence report circulated this spring in the middle of the Iran war claimed the Chinese ship was transporting components of nuclear weapons program. Sources say U.S. military aircraft were in the air to act on the information, but before the operation began, officials dug deeper, learned of the role AI played in the development of the report, and found that the chatbot had inaccurately identified the material the ship was carrying.

27:09The report, according to one of the sources, was entirely false, but quote, quote, according to this person, almost started a war. Joining me now on New York Times Foreign Affairs columnist, Tom Freeman. He's the author of The World is Flat, A Brief History of the 21st Century, among many others. His latest column for The Times is, it's already too late to stop the AI threat. Tom, why do you think it's already too late? Well, Anderson, I wrote this column with my technology tutor, Craig Mundy of Microsoft, was formerly head of research and strategy there. And we're really dividing the AI challenge into two broad buckets.

27:45The first bucket is about all the technology, AI technologies, that have already proliferated around the world. They proliferated because they leaked out of the big AI companies, the Anthropics and the ChatGPTs in testing. And they leaked because of Chinese open weight, kind of open source equivalent of AI systems that were spread out in the developing world. And then people take those Chinese models. They go through a process of kind of miniaturizing them so they can actually work off a small rack of servers or a laptop. And between these two processes, you have basically a huge amount of aberrant behavior already happening.

28:26It's too late to stop that. And for that, we need right now an immediate U.S.-China collaboration on cyber technology to put up walls, harden each of our infrastructures against the AI threats that are already out there. Then there is the larger problem of these AI models, the big ones you know, ChatGPT, Gemini, Anthropic, and their Chinese equivalents, that are now reaching stages of autonomous learning, basically. that they're also we've had numerous examples of them breaking out of their shackles, as it were, and doing really disturbing things, hiding their work, going past boundaries that their designers said they shouldn't do.

29:16It's both these problems together, Anderson, and they cannot be solved by one country alone. And what we are saying essentially in the first bucket of problems, the stuff that's already out there, that seems it. Do you think that's an easier deal to make with China and maybe get the Trump administration to try to to to help with, which they've shown no willing interest in otherwise? Well, it's one of the things Craig and I were advocating in this column and have been basically for the last two years. You know, China's head of military intelligence actually made a statement last week. Very unusual.

29:55Someone you don't hear from often. And he said basically two things. One is these AIs are a threat to the Chinese Communist Party. I mean, think about it, Anderson. What if you're a Uyghur opponent of the regime? And with a laptop and a simple Starling connection, if you can get a hold of one, you can take down the water system in a Chinese city. So this is a real problem or engage in fraud or engage in all kinds of misinformation. At the same time, though, he He said China's competing with the United States. And so we don't want to fall behind them either. So they're conflicted. We're conflicted in the same way.

30:32But at some point, Anderson, we're both going to have to realize that we're in a new world. It's going to require new rules of geopolitics. That AI on the loose in the wild is going to threaten the stability of both of our countries much more than we will threaten each other. We're going to learn that early or we're going to learn that late, Anderson. But learn it, we will. Now, think about it just from the point of view of trade. AI is a unique technology. It's like a vapor. It's going into everything, into your watch, into your glasses, into your refrigerator, into your toaster, into your car, and into your next hip replacement.

31:09If the U.S. and China can't trust each other's AI, what's going to happen? In five years, all we'll sell them are soybeans and all they'll sell us is soy sauce. because AI is going to be in everything. So sooner or later, we are going to have to come to terms with coming together around protections on this issue. You know, Yuval Noah Harari has, I saw him talking about this a while back. One of the things he said is the argument is we can't trust China. We can't trust human beings in China to make some sort of a deal, which is in their interests as well as ours, but we are trusting these beings which people we don't know are creating in labs, and we are trusting them that they are going to act appropriately when we don't trust other human beings, which is a little weird when you think about it in those scenarios.

32:02Weird. Well, you hope, one can only hope that we will wake up, and China will wake up, the problems and the challenges are on both sides, and realize that we have made ourselves godlike as a species, okay? We have done something that only the creator had done before. We created a level of intelligence greater than the creator endowed us with. We've disconnected intelligence from human biology and now made it something that machines can do. We have become godlike as a species. We can now part the Red Sea, Anderson, just one problem, without the Ten commandments without the guidelines the rules and norms we need to govern these behaviors and either we're either going to come to terms with this before some great crisis or after and so when people sell me china this and america that and we're competing people don't understand we're in a new phase of human history okay we are here for something really really big And if you try to understand it and treat it as some conventional geopolitical problem, what you're going to end up with is a Chinese AI system and an American AI system.

33:16We're not going to trust each other. And then how are we going to trade with each other? And what's that going to mean for the global economy? Thomas Shreven, it's a fascinating article. I appreciate it, Thomas. Thanks very much. Up next, protesters gathering outside the Kennedy Center in D.C. their message for the president who is threatened to tear it down if he can't make renovations and add his name to the building. And later, the surprising revelation in day one of testimony in the murder trial of a former American Idol contestant who is accused of shooting his wife to death and trying to cover it up.

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34:40Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. More breaking news tonight. Several hundred demonstrators have gathered for what organizers are calling hands around the Kennedy Center in Washington, the protest over President Trump's takeover of the performing arts venue, his threat to rip it down if renovations can't be made, and his glorious name put on it. The president talked about that again this afternoon. I think the Trump administration should be recognized as having saved the Kennedy Center because nobody else can do it.

35:20In point of fact, Congress has allocated money for renovations. Democratic Ohio Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, the lone Kennedy Center board member fighting the president's efforts in court, shared those details when I talked with her Wednesday night. He is saying that he will shut it down or even tear it down if he is not recognized for raising money. $257 million was allocated by the Congress. It doesn't matter who advocated for it. The Congress voted on it and its taxpayers' money. Meanwhile, the Kennedy Center laid off more than a dozen additional employees today, and Arsalan Serfati joins us now from there.

35:59So what has it been like tonight at the protest? Well, Anderson, this is largely the aftermath of what was a very boisterous and large protest outside the Kennedy Center. There are many hundreds of people gathered here. I'll take you through some of the people who are remaining. Many musicians, as you can see, many people carrying their instruments. There was a lot of artists singing. There was a piano out here. There are many people dressed up in costumes. A lot of signs, obviously, against what's happening at the President's Center and specifically focused on President Trump, directing their ire on President Trump, saying, do not demolish the Kennedy Center, demolish Mar-a-Lago.

36:40no kings, you are no JFK. So the message here from these protesters really loud and clear. They are worried about the destruction of the building. They are worried about the deterioration of the reputation of this building and the future. Many people out here are people who used to work at the Kennedy Center just a few moments ago. I saw a woman now in her 60s. She worked at the Kennedy Center when she was about 25 years old and she brought her ID from And when she was at the Kennedy Center and she looked at the building, she started crying and she had tissues wiped away tears, Anderson, because she said it's just horrible and heartbreaking what has happened.

37:16This building has largely become a symbol in President Trump's second administration for his imprint that he wants to make on D.C. And many people out here protesting tonight do not want to be in that in that argument anymore. They want this to be remedied. Of course, this is making its way through the court. And I want to point out just today, you know, you can see all these protesters here. Many of them have gone home tonight. On the other side, you have visual reminders that this is a building really hanging in the balance. Frozen, you have the tarps up from when they removed the name Donald Trump off the side in the summer.

37:52You have security guards now wearing construction hats, white construction hats with Kennedy Center on the side. That is because this building has been closed for one week that the officials here say is temporary. And they say it is because of the safety of the building and the renovations and the maintenance that they want to fix. Anderson. Yeah, Selina Servati, thanks very much. Before airtime, I spoke with political historian Leah Wright-Rigueur. How do you think historians are going to look back at this mishegas? You know, I think this is a perfect metaphor for the relationship that Donald Trump has with America.

38:34That, in fact, they'll look at it as kind of the rantings and the ravings and the behaviors of a would-be king who decided that if he can't have his way, that nobody can have their way, that everything has to come down to destroy it. And so it's not just the Kennedy Center. It's also all of Washington, D.C., but it's also all of the country. So we're seeing this over and over again. And I think historians, but I also think other scholars and really the people, the public, are going to look back at this and say, this is Trump's real legacy, tearing things down because he can't have his own way.

39:09I mean, it seems such a petty thing to want your small name on a big building and to want your name on everything. I mean, obviously from a, you know, yeah, he used to be called a great branding, you know, marketing person and put his names on buildings. But and many of those buildings took those names off. But I mean, on whether it's on money or on phones or now it's on the Kennedy Center, it just seems such a strange obsession. It is an obsession. It is the obsession. And it probably dates back to feeling kind of, you know, Trump has had experiences with the Kennedy Center where he's talked about not feeling welcomed, not feeling like it's his space and so wanting to market.

39:52But one of the things that we see with Donald Trump is that it's not small for him, that he wants to put his name on everything. The Institute for Peace right now is going through a whole legal issue with the president because he wants to put his name on that. He wants to put his name on the arch. He wants to put his name on stakes, on books. I think you also bring up an interesting point, which is he wanted to be embraced by that community of the Kennedy Center. He wanted to put on shows and, you know, have touring productions there and be lauded from the stage, and that didn't happen. In fact, people refused to perform.

40:32There does seem a certain, like, peak about it, a certain anger he has about it. or embarrassment? Well, I think it's a little bit of both. And so there's this idea, I think, originally when Trump comes in and he reestablishes the board, right, he fires all the board members, he fires half the staff of the Kennedy Center, he appoints his own people. He then kind of lavishes praise upon himself, where he says, you know, oh, I'm being generous. I'm being a patron of the arts. But then he begins to say, these are the kinds of arts that I want to see. I don't want to see that woke nonsense. I don't want to see that diversity stuff.

41:06And it completely sidesteps the actual mission of the Kennedy Center. The protests that we've been seeing, activists speaking out in support of it, do you think it makes a difference? I think it makes a really important difference in a couple of different ways. The first is that one of the protests is being led by Kerry Kennedy, or she's actively involved at least in advertising it. And that's important because she is of the Kennedys. She has made a statement about, on behalf of the Kennedy family, actually many people from the Kennedy family have made statements, but she is leading the charge really in saying this cannot be allowed to happen.

41:43But the other thing is that we've seen that legal judgments and legal decisions in this case haven't actually stopped Donald Trump. His name has still gone up in the building. The scaffolding has still gone up. The building has been shut down. And so the protesters actually play a role in physically protecting the building. So it's not just about drawing attention, but it's also true that the president is not beyond going in the middle of the night and knocking the entire Kennedy Center down. He's done it with the East Wing. We've seen it with the reflecting pool. So there may come a point where the president of the United States decides enough is enough.

42:21I'm going to tear down the Kennedy Center and there's nothing anyone can do to stop me. That's the role that protesters actually play in protecting the space and that ground. Leah Wright-Rigueur, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Well, coming up, opening statements and a bombshell revelation of an affair in the murder trial of Caleb Flynn, the former American Idol contestant accused of shooting his wife to death.

42:47New developments tonight in two legal cases we've been following closely. Just last night, we reported on the former American Idol contestant who is on trial accused of fatally shooting his wife. Prosecutors laid out their case today with new information saying he had a mistress at the time and that they have text messages where he allegedly expressed his desire to kill his wife. Meanwhile, two weeks after the triple murder trial, Lindsay Clancy, who was accused of killing her three kids, we're finally learning or hearing from the holdout juror whose lone vote to convict Clancy results in that mistrial.

43:16Joining me now is CNN's Gene Cazares. Let's start with the Caleb Flynn trial. A mistress for many years. The prosecution said in opening statements, 100 ,000 text messages in a year before she died. Wasn't this guy a pastor, allegedly? Yes, a music pastor, a man of God. That's right. Then that's what he's professed, besides the American Idol, crediting his wife for getting him there. But the prosecution said that the theme of text messages to the mistress were that he hated Ashley. He wanted her gone. He wanted her dead. He wanted to be with the mistress for his future. Here's an example, because this all happened on February 16th, early morning hours.

43:542.31 is when the 911 call was made. Just a couple of hours before, he texts a mistress, according to prosecutors, I choose you. I'm free. Actions will come tomorrow, February 16th, a day I will never forget. Now, this is high stakes because this is aggravated murder, the highest count in Ohio. And the defense is saying, and the defense showed, that when law enforcement came a couple hours after this, he's frantic, he's emotional. They have to call an ambulance because he can't get control, and he says there's an intruder. An intruder came and broke in and shot her, and he's gone, and I couldn't see him.

44:31Prosecutor says, we've got ballistics, we've got DNA, we've got his electronics, we've got his Apple Watch, we've got his iPhone, we've got his earbuds, and we are going to show that everything he said is a lie. My defense says shoddy investigation. They can't prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. We'll see. And what's the development of the Lindsey Clancy trial? We're hearing from the juror. It's a big development because we've heard from the 11 jurors, not all of them, but we've heard from a lot of them saying that the holdout juror wouldn't deliberate, wouldn't follow the law, wouldn't follow the instructions.

45:01I mean... They said he had reasonable doubt but still wouldn't... Exactly. Exactly. Here is what he said. For the first time, he came out with a statement. We want to show everybody here. He said, I didn't have any doubts. As I tried to explain different possible theories during deliberation, I kept getting cut off as if I had doubts based on the evidence present. Based on all the physical evidence, key witnesses and what the prosecution presents, I thought it was enough proof that she, Clancy, knew exactly what she was doing and planned. So he's really denying the idea that he had reasonable doubt.

45:41What he appears to be saying is that he deliberated, like you're supposed to do, and he determined that the prosecution had proven their case. So what happens now? Oh, the 29th of September, mark your calendars, in court, we're going to be in Massachusetts. The defense is going to want to try to get all of these charges dismissed outright because they believe the mistrial should not have been declared, that this juror should have been questioned in court. Prosecution and defense, are they talking? He said it on your show, the defense attorney, Mr. Reddington, that he would engage in conversations with the prosecution.

46:17So will there be a plea deal? Will there be a conclusion to this? Or will there be a retweet? Yeah, I mean, the defense attorney was saying he's open to some sort of discussion, but no jail time is what he said. Exactly. Prison time. Exactly. And manslaughter is probation until 20 years. So we'll see. It'll be very interesting. Well, we'll be watching Gene Cazares. Thanks so much. Appreciate it for the update. I want to tell you about the the streaming show that we have on. I want to tell you about my my grief show that streams every Thursday night. You can watch it every other Thursday night on CNN dot com slash all there is.

46:58and also want you to know about where you can watch CNN programs and other special programming on demand on your TV, computer, or mobile device anytime, anywhere with an all-access subscription. Scan the QR code on your screen or go to CNN.com slash watch to learn more. That's it for us. The news continues. The Source starts now. Observe. The North American Dad. 50s. Great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana. An offer appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles, and says, Dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling. No hassle.

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