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Animal Spirits Podcast - Episode 359: Fighting Inflation
Episode Overview In this episode of the Animal Spirits Podcast, hosts Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson delve into various topics, including the current state of the bull market, government debt implications, consumer responses to inflation, Wall Street dynamics, Bitcoin ETFs, housing market challenges, and cultural reflections inspired by Jerry Seinfeld.
Key Themes and Discussions
- Market Sentiment
- The hosts discuss the relentless nature of bull markets, comparing them to bear markets in terms of psychological impacts on investors.
- The S&P 500 showed a swift recovery, demonstrating how bull markets can often lack significant pullbacks, leaving bearish investors feeling sidelined.
- Government Debt
- A significant topic of discussion revolves around the increasing U.S. government debt, projected to hit $1 trillion in annual interest payments, raising concerns about sustainability and future economic ramifications.
- Consumer Behavior and Inflation
- Consumers are beginning to "fight back" against inflation, as seen in the decreasing popularity of brands like Starbucks and fast food chains, which are experiencing longer wait times and increasing prices.
- The episode references a Wall Street Journal article highlighting rising average transaction prices for vehicles and maintenance costs.
- Interest Rates and Economic Stimulus
- The hosts explore the dual nature of interest rates, noting how they can act as both a burden and a stimulus, particularly in the context of government payments to investors.
- There's a conversation about how rising rates have changed consumer behavior, leading to more cash accumulation and risk aversion among investors.
- Housing Market Insights
- The episode investigates the current housing market, highlighting the struggles first-time buyers face due to limited inventory and rising costs.
- There's a discussion on demographic changes and how they might affect future housing prices, which have skyrocketed in recent years.
- Cultural Commentary
- Michael and Ben touch on conversations surrounding Jerry Seinfeld's perspectives on the changing nature of work and the cultural shift in the value of money that began in the 1980s.
- The hosts reflect on the implications of consumerism and the prioritization of income over job satisfaction.
- Bitcoin and ETF Trends
- The episode dives into discussions about Bitcoin ETFs, questioning who the primary buyers are and the tendencies of retail investors during market fluctuations.
- Insights are provided into the contrasting behaviors of institutional versus retail investors related to cryptocurrency purchases.
Key Takeaways
- Market Dynamics: Bull markets can be psychologically challenging for investors waiting for corrections.
- Government Debt: Rising debt levels are unsustainable and could have long-term economic consequences.
- Consumer Sentiment: Consumers are beginning to push back against inflation through changes in spending habits.
- Interest Rates: Higher interest rates can lead to increased savings and risk aversion among consumers.
- Housing Market: Limited supply and rising prices continue to challenge first-time homebuyers.
- Cultural Reflections: Shifts in societal values regarding work and money have significant implications for future generations.
Conclusion The episode encapsulates a variety of pressing economic issues while providing insight into market behaviors and cultural shifts. Michael and Ben's engaging dialogue encourages listeners to reflect on how these themes relate to their personal financial situations and broader societal trends.
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Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Today's Animal Spirits is brought to you by Simplify ETFs, option-based income strategies, all the rage. We've talked about these before, but do your funds offer high yield at the expense of high return? Check out Simplify ETF's active income solutions that deliver risk-managed monthly dividends via diversified options selling across multiple asset classes, including equities, fixed income commodities, and even crypto assets. Visit Simplify.us for more info or to schedule a call with a member of their investment team. That's Simplify.us slash ETFs. Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing.
0:33Join Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, and watching. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ritholtz Wealth Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.
0:59Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. did you check out the doc this week? I sure I did. Why? It's super long. So it's 43 pages. So I'll keep the StubHub ribbing to a minimum. You don't want to do a 20-minute diatribe on StubHub again? So two updates. Number one. We lost them as a sponsor forever. Number one, apparently. So I'm on the phone because my tickets sold again. And I'm like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. How are my tickets selling again? How could you sell the same ticket twice? And I'm on the phone with them and I'm on the phone with them trying to figure out what's going on.
1:39And I, the tickets keep selling. And I'm like, wait, what is happening? What is happening? I'm like, take the listing down. I didn't do this. Why would I list my tickets seven times? So then literally my tickets were listed seven times. So while I'm on the phone with them, they kept selling and I'm like freaking out. So I had to delete them because apparently I don't know if there's a glitch in the app. I have no idea how my tickets got listed seven times. I certainly didn't do that. So they charged me the 900 that I mentioned last week. And then they also charged me 450 because one of my pairs, only one ticket sold.
2:10So I don't know what's going on. I think it's on the review, but needless to say, not thrilled with StubHub. Somebody emailed us. Time to retire from the game. We got a few emails that Michael needs a ticket broker. Guess what? Somebody introduced me to a ticket broker and the guy's wonderful. I'm never going through stuff up again you need a broker to manage all of your brokers a broker of brokers yes it's like you have like a fund of funds of different brokers i guess i'm not surprised no just just so when we go through bear markets they can seem suffocating in ways where like it seems like just relentless selling and it's like oh when is this ever going to end but it kind of feels like bull markets are similar in a lot of ways where if you're someone who's been bearish waiting for a drop stuck on the sidelines and like, I just want a better entry point when it, when the market finally, you know, rolls over and falls 10 or 15%, that's what I'm going to get in.
3:06And it's like this for the, it's not allowing you to happen sometimes. So the S and P is, this is the, but this is the thing about bull markets. They don't let you in. They don't, they don't give you the pullbacks that you're waiting for. So we're taping this on Tuesday morning, market just opened through Monday close. The S and P is back to down 1.4 % from the highs. Well, that was fast. Five and a half percent at the lows. So it's like, okay, here we go. We're going to get this correction. And then it doesn't happen. And that, that, that is too, why waiting on the sidelines can be so debilitating because it's like, when is it going to come?
3:43And obviously a correction is going to happen, but the waiting is the hard part. The narrative shift was interesting about why we got the pullback was because accelerating data, increasing rates, the two-year got above 5%. It's now back to 4.8. So that was the narrative for why price pulled back. And I think it was a fair narrative. I mean, we got the data and interest rates went higher and prices went down. And then we got some, I'm going to use the G word, some Goldilocks looking data of a slowing economy, some softer data, still okay, but just softer rates pulled back hard. And then the stock market re-accelerates.
4:24The narrative cycles are speeding up really fast too, because it's like one week it's geez, inflation is sticky and growth is ticking here to stay. Then the next week you get one jobs number and it's like, okay, things are slowing. This is, it changes so quickly. And that's the thing is the bond market doesn't seem like it's like predicting what's going to happen. It's one step behind and it's just reacting, which is interesting. It's not like the bond market is getting ahead of this stuff. It's okay. Speaking of the bond market, a bunch of people posted this chart from bank of America. Got an email the other day saying, Hey, I'm on the team at bank of America that makes these charts.
4:58Glad you guys use them. Oh, nice. It is. Wasn't that you said, like, you can tell who the charts come from by the look of them. Bank of America has distinctive looking charts. Well, guess what? So do we now. We're in the chart game. That's true. We do. Okay. Annual interest payments at$1 trillion and rising. And so this is projected interest payments. So it's like the previous 12 months of interest payments for the US government. So it's at$1 trillion in March. By April 2025, this is assuming rates stay stable. It just goes to the moon, 1.7 trillion. And then if we assume 150 basis point cut by the Fed, then it's only 1.2 trillion.
5:33But that 1.7 is the one that people look at and go, whoa. So if we stay in the current trajectory, which... I mean, you could use the word, you could use the unsustainable word. This is, you can't keep doing this, right? With no ramifications. I don't know what the ramifications would be, but you can't just keep, this can't just keep going vertical. Okay. So here's the, here's the other side of this is Bloomberg had this piece about how the government is paying out$2 million per minute to investors. So the liability of government, so it's essentially stimulus to investors. Yes. Right. And higher rates are stimulus.
6:06The$2 million per minute. I love these because when you're dealing in trillions, you can do this money any way you want. And you can make it seem it's crazy high. But they said last year, investors pocketed$900 billion in annual interest from the US government, doubly average over the previous decade. That's set to rise as over 90 % of treasuries now carry coupons of 4 % or more. In the mid-2020 - Two million per minute? Was that the number you mentioned? Two million per minute? Yes. So again, the other side of the liability of the government is an asset for people. And the thing is, with rates, you can never win because on the one hand, I did a tongue-in-cheek tweet about this, and I said, this chart is essentially a stimulus to rich people who own T-bills.
6:45But the other side of this is the 2010s where people say savers are getting punished. And asset holders are the ones that are making out like bandits it's because stocks are going up. So you can't win with the interest rate deal, I guess. Josh was on this pretty early that higher rates are actually inflationary and stimulative. But it's funny though. No one ever said this back in the 90s when rates were 5 % or 6 % for the whole decade. Why wasn't it inflationary then? Is it just because people have more money now? The rich people have more money? I think it's a combination of rich people having just, there's just more assets, number one.
7:20And number two, coming off a base of zero is a shock to the system. So in the 90s, what were rates in the 80s? We anchor. That's the part. Yeah, so coming up from zero, this is, yeah, it's different. So Bloomberg also has this cool chart in here that shows the margin of safety that now exists in bonds. And it's showing the amount of yields, very infaturities that they would need to rise for one year of losses to totally wipe out your income, right? Because in the 2020s, there was no margin of safety there. Yields needed to rise a little bit, and all your income is gone. This is great. This is a wonderful chart.
7:56Yields would have to rise 520 basis points to wipe out all the yield in two-year treasury right now. So this is a good way to, I think, through risk for a lot of people. But wait, but make the comparison. So for listeners who can't see this chart, in mid-2020, in order to wipe out a year of losses, the two-year only needed to go up 20 basis points, which is what happened in way worse, obviously. Yeah, the sensitivity to duration is way, way higher at lower interest rates, or there's no margin of safety. There was a huge margin of safety. So the five-year back then, an eight basis point increase could have wiped out the whole year's worth of gains.
8:29Now it's 130 basis points. So you wrote a piece, Ben, about bondholders and why they're not freaking out. Well, this is the answer. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. But just the, I'm trying to have a balancing act on the government thing, because as you say, everyone keeps saying this is unsustainable. It's unsustainable. but on the other hand it's also putting money back into the hands of investors so essentially it's but that's not a wash it's not a wash it's not a total wash but i don't know i i the unsustainable piece is the one that i can never wrap my head around because people keep saying this but i've yet to see a good reason like okay what what happens because we can literally print our own currency and and i think the the risk is just inflation which we already had yeah that but i guess the risk would be if we keep spending like this then inflation will stay higher.
9:16I guess that's the point. That's the risk. Mobison and Callahan had a really interesting article called Cost of Capital and Capital Allocation. Investment in the Era of Easy Money. So they looked back on... Sorry, not to throw shade here, but this is like the opposite of a BuzzFeed clickbait headline. Yeah. Right? This is for true believers only. Right? Yeah, this is airplane reading. And so... The thinking that interest rates are what drives decision-making, I think that's true for how people think about investing. And it's true for the mindset of investors overall. But if you're just looking within companies and how companies choose to allocate their capital, R &D, buybacks, dividends, whatever, the level of interest rates is shockingly immaterial.
10:11So they say surveys of executives over decades reveal that changes in the cost of capital have a muted effect on their decisions. This is relevant because in theory, the present value of$1 of earnings in perpetuity is twice as high if you discount it by the perceived cost of capital than by the hurdle rate. Counter to the assumption that lower interest rates lead to higher investment activity, investments are 24.5 % of sales from 2009 to 2021 versus 27.3 % from 1996 to 2008. only intangible investments are higher. So if you look, there's a chart investment. Those are completely different rate environments.
10:49What's that? Yeah. And those are completely different rate environments. So the point is that, uh, executives at these companies have a mental hurdle rate that does not change with interest rates. Interesting. Right. Yeah. They're like their minimum needed to fund this. It has nothing to do with the 10 year or the overnight cost, which is interesting. because in theory, in theory, it should be a big input, right? Because the dividend discount or whatever you're discounting, it should be a big input to the models, but they have mental models. It's different. That is interesting. You know, my favorite Eddie Elfenbein tweet of all time, my favorite mental model is Kate Moss.
11:31So let me just jump around for a sec. So Connor Sen tweeted, feel free to push back on this, but going back 50 years, most US recessions played out as an energy price shock followed by an investment collapse. We had the setup for that in Q2 2022, but that's long gone. So what's the thing going to be now? Like what's the thing that's, what's going to be the thing that slows the economy, drives us into a recession? I think that while we're on the topic of interest rates, low rates and high rates, as we just mentioned, matter a lot more to consumers and investors than they do to companies. And I think that the impacts of higher rates, there was like interest rates, the impact happens on a lag.
12:15I think that the impact of high rates can happen on a lag for capital allocation from investors. And so investors are just way more risk averse or the hurdle for investors, not executives, not companies, the hurdle for investors is absolutely way higher when rates are at 5%. I'm sitting on way more cash than I ever have. And I don't think I'm unique there because it's really comfortable, right? I'm not taking money. I'm not taking money out of the stock market and doing it. There's no hurry to get it invested these days. But my cash pile is building and that's not unique to me. And that sort of thing, that takes time to see the impacts of that.
12:56So that could be the thing that ultimately, And I know it's like a nebulous concept, but that could be ultimately the thing that maybe slows the economy. And that is the whole point. That is supposed to be one of the points of the Fed raising and lowering rates, right? If they lower rates, risk is pushed out on the curve. If they raise rates, it comes back in. Guess what? If I was getting 2 % of my cash, would this find a way into risk assets? You're damn right it would. Yeah. No, that's fair. The thing is, the recession question is a good one because we need to have some sort of excess to get the recession to happen.
13:29Beginning back to the energy point, I'm shocked that we didn't have an energy crisis after the war in Ukraine and oil immediately spiking$120 a barrel. It's crazy to me that it didn't happen. All of the ingredients were there. Yes, they really were. We got an email about Zerp. The nice thing about the Zerp era was that it at least felt like companies were trying new stuff. Now it's just about nickel and diming, raising subscription costs, fees, and shrinkflation. Stuff just feels so boring these days. I'm a 35-year-old millennial, and even AI is a fun gimmick for now, but I feel like our generation is just getting bored because we grew up on the Zerp products.
14:08Interesting take. Well, that's sort of the one's counter to the cost of capital thing. But again, I feel like we're talking about an isolation area. We're talking about like a very tight window of time. So this doesn't negate what Mobuson said. But to this email list point, companies are way more cognizant of the cost of capital because their stock prices was getting killed because investors were saying, we don't want these stocks. But you know what the big input is? It's not the cost of capital, it's the cost of labor. And I think one of the things people underestimate about the ZURP phenomenon is that all this stuff was happening is because labor was so cheap.
14:43So Matt Darling tweeted this. Muhammad Al-Aryan tweeted a post about how the cost of fast food is rising and people say this is the sign of a terrible economy and Matt Darling says no no no fast food restaurants are expensive as a sign of a good economy not a bad one yeah we want labor to be expensive fast food was inexpensive in the 2010s because of a slack labor market and I think this is something people don't realize is saying geez a burger at five guys cost me twelve dollars now the economy is terrible when the opposite is true. The burger was$5 in the 2010s because labor was so cheap. And now that people on the lower end are making more money, that's actually the sign of a strong economy.
15:20But it seems like the sign of a... So I think that's one of the reasons. The reason you got such cheap Uber rides in the 2010s is because people weren't getting paid a lot to drive Ubers. Right. Yeah, that's a great point. So I think that's part of it too. But that's why the economy is a balancing act. And it's never completely perfect in every way, right? It's like in the 2010s, it was, geez, the income inequality is crazy. It's like now we've kind of helped that a little bit. But guess what that means on the other end? And so it's a teeter-totter in a lot of ways. And there's just no perfect economy and there's never going to be.
15:56All right. So one of, I think I've mentioned this before. One of my favorite things about where we are now with podcasts and people having their own sort of media channels and just way more outlets is every time someone has a new book or a new project like a movie or a tv show they go on the tour and so the one who's been on the tour and even did an snl skit about this is jerry seinfeld did you see this he did like he did an snl thing about like on the snl news desk you know the weekend update he was playing a guy who's done too much press and he's he was on a million podcasts he was on all these interviews which is great because you get to hear Jerry Seinfeld wax poetic on this stuff.
16:33Sidebar, he did a one on one interview and I pounded the table on this, but no one's listening because no one watches Apple TV plus. But the Steve Martin doc was just, it's the best thing I've watched all year, like bar none. But there was a part in the, in the doc where they'd go back and forth and it was just Seinfeld interviewing Steve Martin about comedy and just these two giants of comedy going back and forth about their process and how they think about it. And it was amazing. I'm going to watch it.
16:59You Steve Martin is older. I mean, he's just to this gen. Nobody knows who Steve Martin is. Nobody under 30 knows who Steve Martin is. He's got the new show on Hulu. But yes, you're right. He's old, but he's a way more complicated guy than I thought. Anyway, so Seinfeld was on Neil Brennan's podcast called Blocks. And you're a big Neil Brennan fan, right? I still haven't watched his new special, but those guys are buddies. And I feel like when you're friends with someone, you, it's easier for you to, you know, be let loose and be a little more, you know. So Seinfeld was talking about him coming up in the comedy world and then how America has changed.
17:34And he says in the 1970s, he's like, everything changed from the 70s to the 80s. And he said in the 1980s, money became everything. And he said in the 70s, it was how cool is your job? That's all that mattered, right? If my job's cooler, if your job's cooler than mine, you beat me. And no one talked about how much they're making. And Seinfeld said one of his friends explained to him that in the 80s was the first time that young guys could make a lot of money fast. He said the people who were rich in the past were like shipping and iron ore people and like industrial, right? And then finance was born.
18:04And he said it has poisoned our culture to this day. He said he had some people over, some kids of his that he was, kids' friends that he was trying to explain to it. And he said, if your work is unfulfilling, the money will be too. And so he was talking about this whole thing about money. But I thought it was really interesting how he said like the 80s was the dividing line. And I think the reason for this is because that's when the finance industry really took off. Right? You couldn't before then, you couldn't really make a ton of money. Charlie Ellis has written about this in the past, how in like the 50s and 60s when he came into Wall Street, you didn't go there to make a lot of money.
18:32It was kind of tumbleweeds and boring. And I feel, you know, people always say the Gordon Gekko thing was part of it. But I think that's when Wall Street as finances and industry really took off in the 80s. And then tech has obviously taken the baton. So he's saying like that dividing line was like kind of one of the worst things that's ever happened to us because we just we worship money now. Yeah, that's a good point. But what turned it on to realize, like, I mean, just because we backed everything and securitized everything and made it, pushed paper on more. And I guess the boomers having more money.
19:07But it was an interesting take that he's like, it didn't really matter before. Speaking of securitization, I rewatched The Big Short, which I think a lot of people in finance have this thing where, like, finance movies just, like, maybe you just know too much. and when they play to the general audience, it's just like not as great. It's like how doctors and nurses don't like shows about medical shows. Yeah, so I didn't love the big show when it first came out. I rewatched it. Very good movie. Much better on the second watch for me. See, I didn't really love it either. So I rewatched it on the airplane, sort of in the background.
19:38It was good. So just getting back to how I think about cash and how other investors are thinking about it. Here's a chart from JP Morgan. Yeah, this is from Semblist. ratio of cash yields to S &P 500 dividend yields. And look at the ZERP era, right? Like just being forced out on the risk spectrum. And now, you know, there's that. So this is showing the ratio of cash is five times, four times as much as the S &P dividend yield. So it's whatever five times to one and a half times, whatever it is. So the ZERP era had all sorts of impact on investor behavior capital allocation from investors, not necessarily from companies.
20:16And now we're well on the other side of this. And if this stays high for a long time, cash being high relative to whatever metric you're using. Your point about corporations is one of the reasons that the stock market has been so good, especially the US stock market, because these CEOs are so much smarter than they were in the past about capital allocation. It's like, if the market looks like this, fine, we're going to buy more stock back. If the market looks like this, we're going to take out debt. If it looks like this, we're going to pay down debt. They're so much smarter now. As you say that, I'm just thinking about like, there's probably people listening that have just a million anecdotes of CEOs just acting like absolute morons.
20:50And I'm sure there are a handful of those situations. I mean, of course there are. But in general, I would think that that's probably a fair statement. That we know we're just better allocators, better business managers, better this, better that. We're better. Companies are better. Even with some of the mistakes these tech companies have made, there haven't been any huge missteps by any of these big tech CEOs. Right? The biggest thing Bezos has done is he got divorced and decided to start dating again. Like, whoa. I don't think that Tesla shareholders are thrilled with their leader. Fair point.
21:21Okay. All right. Fair point. Okay. Something we've been talking about a lot on this show is auto insurance. And I guess I get my insurance renewal once every six months. I don't know how often your broker gets a hold of you for your renewal. What's that you were saying about inflation not being a big deal? Okay. Okay, so from six months ago to now, well, let me, I'll give some comments. So what do you think my percentage increase was from six months ago for my auto insurance? Six months ago? Six months ago. 18%. 26%. But. That's karma. Why is that karma? You've been poo-pooing inflation. Not auto insurance.
22:04I've been on the front lines of the reporting on auto insurance. The thing is, though, so here's the here's the here's the coup de grace in Michael Batting terms. So it's 200 bucks higher. Is that really going to be the end of my life? It's it's like, geez, 26 percent. That sounds like a lot. It's two hundred dollars stretched over the course of an iPad. Well, since since the cost of everything else in your life is flat. No, two hundred dollars is not going to matter. I did search around. A lot of people said check Costco, check all these other places. And I couldn't really find a better price unless you I mean, you can you can change the coverage.
22:39Here's the thing. You value your time. You're a busy person. I value professional services. How much more am I paying my broker than by going direct to the company? I don't know. Do you know? No, and I don't care. Oh, okay. All right. There you go. But no, honestly, the thing is, and please feel free to send me emails. I could be way off. Is there an upcharge for broker services? Of course. Why are you saying of course? That person has to get paid. I'm the one who's going in and putting information myself on Progressive. You don't think that they have some sort of wholesale relationship with these companies?
23:14Do you think I'm paying that much more by going through a broker than I would? I'm sure it's not that much, but there's definitely a surcharge. Guess what? Happy to pay it. Convenience. Hey, that's convenience is a form of wealth. I said this recently. What's the other email we got here? All right. The real reason I wanted to write was that the insurance industry is far wilder than you think. Standard PNC businesses like Progressive or Geico are passing through huge price increases, but these price increases need to be approved by state regulators. In some admitted home insurance markets, large companies like Travelers are trying to pass through huge price increases because the catastrophes are much worse than they thought and claims have accelerated.
23:50However, the state says, no, that premium is too high. And then Travelers stops writing insurance in states like Florida because it does not think it is profitable. What happens when admitted stops writing insurance is that non-admitted insurance swoops in. ENS companies do not need to have prices approved by the state. They start insuring people and they can charge whatever they want. Anyway, Ajit Jain and Buffett were talking about this, that a lot of this is regulatory policy. Okay, that makes sense. I also think that to the point of this email, home insurance is probably a bigger pain in the butt for people than auto insurance.
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24:25I mentioned like my auto insurance went up, but at the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal to me. I think the home insurance, because it's more costly, that's the place where it stinks for a lot of people. So Jeff Winninger has a chart. Auto insurance inflation continues to outrun general inflation. So he's looking at CPI motor vehicle insurance relative to all CPI items, and it's skyrocketing. And then he's looking at a chart of auto insurance companies relative to the S &P 500, and they're also breaking out. I mean, they're beating the crap out of the index. Conor Sen tweeted, though.
24:56That's surprising because we had the data showing that a lot of these, the profits aren't that great for these companies. Well, the stocks look pretty good. Encouraging news on the auto insurance inflation front from Allstate. Higher premiums and slowing cost growth have improved profitability, making future large premium increases less likely. So hopefully, maybe all this is behind us. Okay, yeah. So progressive over the past year is up 68 % versus a 27 % gain for the S &P. I saw a great meme. You know, the midwit meme. So it's a bell curve and this is for cars. And on the bottom, it says net worth.
25:37And on the poor end and on the mega rich end is Toyota. The tails, right? The tails. Up top, the Midwits, it's BMW, Jaguar, Lamborghini, and Porsche. I like it. Change that to Honda for me, and I'm golden. I thought this was pretty good. I was thinking about people spending money on cars. Not to judge. People can do whatever they want, obviously, with their money. That's the one area where I judge people more than any other. For whatever reason, there's other stuff to judge on, but for some reason, the car is the one that I always look at. And I just wonder, like, how much is that person really saving?
26:16Well, it's interesting because cars are complicated because on the one hand, there are people that genuinely derive pleasure from driving the car, from getting in a nice car, from the social signaling of having the nice car. Right. And so it's complicated. Yeah, that's personality based. I don't get any of that. The only part you like about driving a car is calling the dealership to complain every five months because something goes wrong. But I saw somebody today, I saw an older gentleman get into a really nice and very expensive Range Rover. And I was thinking like, I don't know, are you like too old to be like, look how cool the car I drive is?
26:55But who am I to judge? What's wrong with having a nice car? The person likes the car, it's fine. Here's the thing. When you get older, you shouldn't care what anyone thinks about you. Like the whole middle-aged. But Ben, what if that's the point? What if this guy says, I don't care if you think I'm a prick for driving a nice car. I want to drive a nice car. I did well in life and this is the car that I want to drive. So there's that too. You got to respect that. Yes, I'm fine with that. I just, I'm okay with people driving expensive cars as long as their finances are okay. I just don't want to, I don't want to, that's the one pain point if you're complaining about finances that and you're driving an$80 ,000 truck, that's the problem.
27:33All right, I've been saying, why hasn't inflation changed any behavior yet? Like I've been waiting for this. Where is the consumer behavior? And the Wall Street Journal has been covered. It's here. And I think so the average transaction price on a new vehicle was 46 ,000, almost 47 ,000 in March compared with 39 ,950 three years earlier. Repair and maintenance costs up 8%. Insurance, obviously, as we've known, up 22 % to cope. Many owners are squeezing more life out of their vehicle. U.S. vehicle average age hit a record 12.5 years in 2023, increasing for the sixth straight year. So this was obviously in place before, and I'm sure the inflationary high cost of cars has increased it.
28:08The share of cars that are 10 or more years old climbed 16.9 % in 1977 to 44.2 % in 2022. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that cars are getting better too. We've talked about this in movies. Like when there's a horror movie and the slasher is chasing the person in the 80s and they try to start the car and go, and it wouldn't start. You don't get that anymore with a push button, right? The car starts. There's no cars out there anymore that have rust. It'd be funny, so now with electric vehicles, you turn the car on and you don't know if it's on. That's true. So imagine in a new horror film, the person gets into an electric vehicle and they turn the car on and off because they don't know if it's on or off.
28:45But except for in Audi, I'm not going to say Audi, these cars last longer these days. They're better quality in a lot of cases, right? You can drive a car 200 ,000 miles and it's fine. Here's another one from Wall Street Journal. Consumers are voting with their wallets and some of America's best-known food brands are losing. Coffee drinkers are leaving Starbucks loyalty program. Chips Ahoy cookies are lingering longer on the grocery shelves. Fewer customers are ordering fast food, drive-thrus and kiosks, pressuring companies such as Wendy's and McDonald's. So it's happening. So this is someone from Chips Ahoy.
29:14We have surpassed certain price points, and that is having a big effect. This person, you know, they interview the regular people on the street for the article. It's not that I can't afford it now. It's the frustration that the same meal cost double what it did. I've been waiting for this. It's finally happening. So this is, as far as inflationary signs, this is a great sign. Even if it's...
29:38Michael just took a sip out of like a giant liter of Starbucks. I was saying to Josh that my Starbucks habits have changed. I'm not, I was a 100 % of the year Starbucks drinker every single day. And I'm skipping a few days. I'm probably down to 90%. So I'm changing my habits. My wife certainly is not. But I think if this actually is a real thing, that companies are starting to feel it because they're talking about it in their earnings calls. If they are, even if it's only in the margin, I say that's a great thing. Oh, it's a great thing. For price pressure. Like this is a good news. This is good news for inflation.
30:15Consumers fighting back. Like we can actually have, let's do it. I was early to the front line of fighting back against Chipotle. I put my stick in the sand three years ago. Did I not? Yeah, I don't know. Isn't it impossible to fight against inflation? Like in places like New York and Disney, like you can't fight inflation there. No. It's like you kill a monster and another one comes. Yeah. All right. We have one emailer who is apoplectic that the media is not covering the rising prices and costs and inputs and all that sort of stuff in the healthcare industry. So let us disseminate the message on this person's behalf.
30:52Even after today's wage report, still nobody wants to call a couple hospital administrators just touched base with the crazy dynamic that has occurred since COVID. The largest employment sector in the country with one of the most profound increases in wages I have seen in the last 30 plus years. There has been more six-figure salary nurses created in the last three years versus any other job descriptions combined. Wow. Can't believe I've heard nothing from financial journalists about what is happening with healthcare wages. It's just ridiculous journalistic malpractice. Well, thank you for sharing.
31:21My other healthcare thing, I've been hearing stories from people going and getting testing done and all this stuff, and it seems to be like the wait times are longer and longer and longer. Can our health industry handle 70 million baby boomers who are going to need tons of medical care in the coming 10, 20, 30 years? Isn't that just going to overwhelm hospital systems in this country? Think about how long it takes and how bad the customer service is when you call a doctor's office for something. Like, has there ever been one good customer service experience calling a doctor's office? It's rare when it happens.
31:59No. So unless we have robots that are able to take care of baby boomers in their older years, because they're going to need quality of life, healthcare coverage. You know, that's the basic stuff. But all these other things, how are they not going to overwhelm everything? How are there going to be enough employees to help, and doctors and nurses to help all of the aging boomers? It seems like it's an impossible, right? Yeah, I don't know anything about that. All right. Good chart. What is this? Oh, lumber prices all the way back. Boy, this was a pandemic thing. We talked about this quite a bit back in the day.
32:30And how many builders are decreasing their housing costs because of this? Right. Approximately zero. Speaking of builders and houses, I sent you, Ben, over the weekend, a screenshot of a couple of homes listed in my neighborhood. it is i mean those are these are split levels houses built in the i don't know the 60s it's the one that you you always describe for us i'm not going to do it yes it looks but it looks like the the brady bunch home i guess you could say uh 2300 square feet being what were they 950 or something 979 i mean i don't know what they're gonna get but they're gonna go for over 900 and it's a travesty.
33:08It really is. Those houses. So this is a long time ago at this point, but when my mother died and we sold the house in 2011, we sold it for, I think, 475. You sold at the bottom, man. We really did. But whatever. But these houses should be, I don't know, I'm making this up, 700? And the people who are buying them, you feel bad for because it's like, they're at the stage in life where they buy a home and you can't say like, what are you doing, idiot. It's like, listen, we want or need to buy a home. So we're going to pay the going rate. That's the Jeremy Irons one, right? Yeah. We're selling to willing buyers at the willing rate or whatever.
33:48All right. Economy stuff. Matthew Klein had some good stuff for the overshoot. I just want to mention inflation rate has been sub 4 % for almost a year now. Surprising, correct? Like the, it's the volatility of it has, has gone away, which is, I think, interesting. So Matthew Klein says the best inflation hedge is a job. And he shows disposable personal income, consumer spending, and wage income only. And these three things, especially the last three years or so, just follow each other. So if you want to know why there's been more spending in retail sales, it's because people are making more money.
34:22But he says wages are starting to roll over a little bit. This is another good sign for inflation. And so he plots wages versus the PCE price index. And wages have slowly started to roll over a little bit. And again, I think this is another good sign for people worried about inflation sticking around and shooting back higher. Yeah, this is the thing. Yeah, so the thing is wages are inflation in a lot of ways. I mean, it's a chicken and the egg problem, but yeah. Black Friday savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to add new cordless power to your collection. Right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free.
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35:41Make your next cocktail with Tito's. Distilled and bottled by Fifth Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40 % alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly. Talman Swift tweeted, Torsten Slock with some more cool weekend charts. Inflation-adjusted pandemic savings are up big time for the middle class. In percentage terms, these folks that didn't get the 20 % raises or$15 an hour folks did fine, but between savings and smaller percentage bumps on much bigger base salaries, they're fine. So... I would love to see these numbers non-inflation-adjusted as well because it would show a huge increase in savings because right add 20 on these yeah but i guess yeah this thing people are worried like when are they going to spend their savings down and still i don't know i think this is the trigger point like this is the thing that people don't like to hear it's like no no net of inflation real wages are up and i mean there's there's caveats of course you know like it's not evenly distributed but that's the data yes all right headline from business insider the u.s economy is already in a recession and it's following the same path as China by becoming reliant on debt, veteran forecaster says, I didn't even need to click through the article to realize this.
36:53Okay. Here's my wall street translation. Veteran forecaster equals this person is very confident, but almost always wrong. And I, is that fair? It's, it's so funny. You mentioned that I, um, I listened to the entire Berkshire, all six hours of it over the weekend because I was all over the place for sporting activities. And it was so cold this weekend. I'm complaining. It's not relevant. So I had one AirPod in. So you're watching T-Ball listening to Warren Buffett. Literally true. That's actually a factual statement. So Berkshire sold 13 million shares of Apple. I forget what they're saying. 15 % of their position.
37:34And somebody tweeted, just as I suspected, just about Apple shares. And this was a person that I was like, wait, who is this person? This name sounds so familiar. And it's a person that's been bearish literally for as long as I can remember. And I Googled this person just to see. And there was a video in 2013, just like uber bearish on the stealth recession, whatever, whatever. And it's just amazing. It's not amazing. And we know why, but that there are actual people like this that are out there in the real world, just only seeing the glass as half on fire. And not to get too deep into the psychology of Uber bears, but what is this?
38:16Just the way that they were raised, their childhood? The internet and the great financial crisis and the pandemic. Those three things. Yeah. All right. Tracy Allaway, this is one of the great things about Twitter. You take the bad with the good, but here's one of the great things. So she tweeted, what just happened to construction jobs? So construction jobs collapsed. And Daniel replied, the real answer is most likely a boring one, volatility in survey data, especially for an industry cut of Jolt's openings, for an industry with a history of that volatility and Jolt's data. And then Nick Bunker said, plus one to what Daniel said, construction postings are showing a much smoother moderation and are still elevated.
38:59So the fact that like, obviously, a lot of misinformation and bullshit and toxicity and et cetera, et cetera. But this is one of the great things is that, you know, you can find the truth if you're looking for it. I like it. Yes. Like there's an outlier here. What's going on? And the good thing is, is that Tracy was asking a question like, what happened? She wasn't saying like, look at this. This is the end of the world. Right. It was like, it was actual question. All right. We talked last week about how older people are doing really well. Axios did one for average wealth for Americans under the age of 40.
39:32And household wealth for those under 40 is up 49 % from pre-pandemic levels, according to new analysis from the left-leaning Center for American Progress. Look at the dip this thing took from 2005 to 2010. It was basically cut in half. This is why, like, millennials versus Gen Z for who has it worse. Is this the stock market? Well, that was, back then, was the housing market. Oh. Right? Well. But. Okay. So what's the takeaway here? Young people are doing better than most people think, but they're still have a right to be angry because of the housing market. How's that? Yeah, fair. So I was driving in the car and Logan wakes me up, my four-year-old, and he says, daddy, print me something.
40:17So we're driving back home. And what did he say? Oh, he just randomly goes like out of nowhere, daddy. I'm like, yes. He goes, can stormtroopers talk? so we get home and he goes print me Darth Vader with stormtroopers so I went to mid journey and I typed in a coloring page this is exactly what I typed in a coloring page of Darth Vader with stormtroopers and 15 seconds later this popped up with three other ones that and so now they're like obsessed with this print me Bowser fighting Optimus Prime time that's the the crazy thing about kids is growing up in an on-demand world of play this song we went when we went to our airbnb in florida for spring break there was no alexa and my son is shouting hey alexa and i'm like george there's no alexa here stop stop yelling for alexa and like everything is on demand for them it is interesting and to see them when when they can't get it but that it's just going to keep happening yeah um all right let's talk about crypto for a second Jim Bianco posted a good thread.
41:24He said, a Citi study shows that investment advisors hold 35 % of all ETFs. The table shows the four largest Bitcoin ETFs, investment advisors hold less than 1 % of the new Bitcoin ETFs. Well, that's really surprising to me. So I'm sort of confused here because people are saying that May 15th is the date that 13 Fs are do for Q1. So I'm not sure where this data is coming from, but let's just go with it. So the ultimate point that Bianca is making is that these are not people that are buy-in holders. These are people that are chasing on the way up and they're going to panic on the way down. That's really the takeaway, I think, from him.
42:03He says, another sign of DJM retail is the dominant ETF buyer is the average trade size. This is good. This is good stuff. The blue is the average of the Bitcoin ETFs, which is just$14 ,000. That's the average trade size. That's less than half the next smallest, which is, I can't say, what is that? Whatever. So he's comparing the average size of Bitcoin with the average size of LQD, HYG. Basically, the ETF side advisors are predominantly using. So LQD, HYG. My counterpoint would be, don't you think ETF holders in general are stickier, hold for longer? Well, he's saying that the ones that advisors hold are.
42:47There's a chart, a great chart, cumulative and daily flows into all spot Bitcoin ETFs. Black is the price. Blue is the average purchase price. Red is the average purchase price, less GBTC. So he says 58 ,000 is the average purchase price or 10 % below current levels. And his basic premise is that they'll dump at the first sign of trouble. I think that's what he's trying to say. I would like to know what the level is for that. Well, he says there's a wide range for Bitcoin. He's showing 58 ,000 is the average purchase price. Bitcoin as of this morning is 63 ,400. So we get like a 20 % dive. People are gone is what he's saying.
43:25A lot of these people. Yeah. And I don't know. We'll see. He might be right. I'm not sure. Interestingly, BlackRock finally did have their first day of outflows. This is a headline from CoinDesk. Leading record$563 million exit from US spot products. Interestingly, look at this next chart. GBTC daily flows. It's just been an absolute rush for the exits until, I don't know why, maybe this is just a reallocation type of thing and this should be a blip, but there was an inflow last week. What if it's just grayscale executives who made so much money off of the fees? just to screw with people. I doubt that.
44:06Michael Santoli had a good play, good take on Bitcoin. And he's kind of saying like, whatever people insist crypto is, a store of value, a claim on a scarce digital resource, real estate, a fun spec, since mid-2023 is traded purely as the next big thing along with AI play. So he puts Bitcoin and NVIDIA on the same chart and they more or less follow each other. And then he puts MicroStrategy, which is levered Bitcoin, on the same chart as super microcomputers. And they essentially follow each other. So isn't that, at least for now, a good way to think about crypto is that it's just, it's a risk on super beta play.
44:41And that's like the, and it's a way to access that beta at all hours of the day. Right? If you want risk really on, it's in crypto. I think that's a good way to look at it. Fair? Yeah. All right, let's get into real estate. Jay Parsons tweeted this. Interesting stat from Freddie Mac. even with higher rates and sticky prices, first-time homebuyers remain the dominant force in the for-sale housing market, representing 58.2 % of all home sales. I think it's actually purchase applications. But if you look in 2017, it was 56%. 2020, it was 55%. And then in 2024, it's 58%. So regardless of what's happening in the market, you mentioned corporations don't really care about interest rates.
45:23Homebuyers don't really care about interest rates. Would you say that home sellers care more than home buyers, at least now in the current environment? Yes, because home sellers are either with a low mortgage or without a mortgage. So giving that up is very difficult. So I was looking at the numbers here just to think through the supply dynamics. So 1.1 existing million, 1.1 million existing homes for sale right now, right? Out of a population of 336 million and 158 million employees, people employed in the US right now. Okay. In 1999, there was 2.2 existing home sales, double the amount. But there was 278 million people in the population, right?
46:03So 60 million fewer people, and there was 30 million fewer people who actually had a job. So that's like the supply thing. So it's not only that there are fewer homes. There are more people too, which makes this dynamic even harder for people to find a house. But also another wrinkle is people are staying in their homes longer. Yes. So it's just like a dwindling supply, which is not. So someone, last week we talked about 30 returns in stocks, bonds, and cash. Remember I had that chart? Someone said, what about houses? So I pulled up Y charts, case show national home price index. The past 30 years ending 2023, housing prices were up 300 % in the 30 years.
46:47So that's 5 % a year almost, a little less than 5 % a year. Higher or lower than you would have assumed. With the caveat that the returns aren't what you actually experienced when you buy a house. There's leverage and all that stuff. I thought it was interesting. Lance Lambert showed home price growth by decade. He shows the 90s, 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s. We've essentially pulled forward a decade's worth of gains already. It was wild. What a chart. Wow. Do you think that means is a baseline assumption that prices will kind of stagnate here or kind of follow inflation from here. Would that be a reasonable thing to say?
47:28Or is that too hard to predict? Were house prices too cheap?
47:35Based on demographics and the number we were building and guess. I mean, we could easily just do like a simple adjustment, like the national home price divided by the national income or something like that to maybe like. Well, obviously based on, and I was arguing this for years. Remember I kept saying housing prices based on interest rates where they were are still relatively cheap. Remember people were saying housing prices were expensive before we had this whole thing. Remember having those arguments back in the day, pre-pandemic? No. Okay. I've got the receipt somewhere.
48:0820-city case-chiller price. This is from S &P. February, year over year, housing prices are up 7.3%. So that little blip we had of falling housing price, I think they fell 2%. Wow. Gone. All right. A bunch of people sent me this one. From uncharted territories, it's a substack. The guy says, why I don't invest in real estate. He's making the bear case for housing. So he's showing the real price index going back to the 1870s. It's probably Shiller data. It basically went nowhere on an inflation-adjusted basis until the 50s, and then it skyrocketed from here. He's also showing world population in 1945 has just gone parabolic, right?
48:50We've taken off billions of more people in the world. His whole thinking behind why he's bearish on housing is population is going to slow and that we've been in an aberration for the past 70 or 80 years for housing prices. So is this like a bearish sentiment going out like 50 years or is this a near-term thing? That's the thing. You'd have to think that this is a longer-term play. Right. There's a bunch of other charts in here on population growth and demand and fertility and urbanization. And so this is not like a perma bear account, as far as I can tell. He lays out a bunch of stuff in here that kind of, and I'm still not sure that I buy it.
49:28Because you're right. 50 years out, if population is dwindling or slowing and fertility rates are slowing, I could kind of see it, but I feel like the, the way that we view the housing market has completely changed. Oh, I hear that cling clinking on your hybrid floors. A few people made the case for carpet with us. That's one of them. Remember we said, why would anyone get carpet in their house anymore? Oh, cause my dog. Cause you don't hear your dog like clopping on the floor. I need to know what she is at all times. A few other people said the reason for carpet is they don't want to be cold with their feet when they get out of bed.
50:05That's the reason you get carpet in a bedroom. Okay, that's fair. Not bad. So anyway, what do you think about this as a bare case for housing that population is going to slow? I don't know. I didn't read the article. I don't know. That's a big, big, big topic that I haven't thought much about. I kind of think much like Seinfeld said, the world of money changed in the 80s. The housing market changed too. Like, I don't know. People in the past didn't. It was a whole different ballgame in terms of housing. That's the way I look at it. All right. Here's something I don't buy. Survey of the week. It's been a while.
50:40New DCG poll. Let's say one in five battleground state voters consider crypto a key issue in 2024 elections. I'm sorry. Did Bitcoin do this poll? I mean, my dad has occasionally asked me about Bitcoin. And I mean, for him, it's just, it's who, well, you're, you're in a, you're in a swing state. Is your dad, is your father one of the five? Certainly not. No, maybe I'd love to see the average age of the people I asked with, but yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to say no. All right. We got an email. We asked about refried beans last week. This is interesting. It's a mistranslation of the Spanish verb.
51:26What does that say? Refrar? I can't really read this. Yeah, refrar. It looks like it means refried to English speakers, but it actually means well-cooked. That's pretty good. Mystery solved. All right. We asked about astronauts. Was that last week too? People said Chinese space travelers are called taikonauts from the word space, from the Chinese word space and the Greek word for sailor. Indian ones are called viomonauts who says i i honestly would have assumed literally everyone who goes to space or is in a space program is called an astronaut but why are they called cosmonauts did we get to the bottom of this i all these countries have different words for for an astronaut okay which is kind of funny because space travel is something that was invented in the last 70 years i'm surprised that they didn't all just say like this is the word right we always we always complain about languages.
52:17Like why do we, why are these? Yeah. Well, come on, everyone, astronauts are on the same level here. So I was talking about how Josh said that Kazam was a fake movie and it's actually Shazam was a fake movie. So I got an email, we got an email, something called the Mandela effect, which is this thing that like everyone believes to be true, but it's not. And there's some mind blowing shit in here. Did you take a look at this yet? No. All right. So, so let's go through it together. So I pulled out a bunch. people remember a 90s movie in which Sinbad played a genie right Shazam not a real movie I remember the Shaq one not the Sinbad one okay well all right uh Jiffy peanut butter doesn't exist what do you mean the name of the peanut butter is Jiff oh yeah I guess I knew that you did I thought it's called Jiffy wait there is a jiffy one isn't it google it right now oh okay all right this is a little bit less mind-blowing but still the cereal is called cap in cap in cap in crunch not captain crunch okay i knew that okay hannibal lecter never said hello clarice in silence on the lambs see there's a skippy peanut butter that's a skippy but the hannibal lecter never said hello Clarice.
53:35So people just use that in there. Okay. That makes sense. I can see that. Um, interview it's so, so it's called interview with the vampire, not interview with a vampire.
53:50Okay. I a hundred percent said interview with a vampire. That's not what it's called. I'm sure I did too. That, you know, that movie kind of, that was not like a staying power movie for as big as the actors were in that movie, right? True. Well, it's not a great movie. Luke, I am your father is not a real thing. Okay. Darth Vader never said that. He said, no, I am your father. Did you know that? Okay. Blame that one on Tommy boy. All right. Here's the last one that really blew my face off my head. South America is not actually directly underneath North America. Did you know this? It's way Southeast.
54:24Look, look at this picture. Okay. I guess I've never really thought about it before. But yeah, if you had asked me, I would have been wrong. I pretty much thought it was directly below Mexico and to the left. Okay. That's a pretty good article. All right. You read this one because this is the best email we've gotten in a long time because just nailed it. So somebody said flag football coach. I coach flag football because Ben brought up the different types of sports coaches. Not sure about the other sports, but flag is for a particular type of coach. So the coach that he describes is the coach of my flag football team.
54:56And I love this guy. We've all had this coach. We have this coach too. He's a great coach. All right. Guy who never played a down of football, but has an NFL playbook for the team. It's literally a three ring binder, right? Yeah, literally. This guy always amazes me. Most leagues only allow one or two hours of practice per week. Yet this guy literally calls out 30 different offensive plays in a 50 minute game. What always amazes me is that the kids who are between eight and 13 end up confused or just don't understand. So they all end up running routes, running go routes half the time. And the QB just heaves it up.
55:23If there is one type of person who should not coach, it's this guy. These are not NFL players, and a guy shouldn't get to love his fantasy of being Andy Reid with kids who can't process and comprehend a tenth of what is being thrown at them. All right, so my son is in a six - and seven-year-old league, which we have to retire from for the remainder of the season because he broke his hand. And it's not like he even broke it doing something cool. You know how the kids before practice screw around and pull each other's flags off for 10 minutes? Yes. Like idiots? Yeah. They were doing that, and he fell and broke his hand.
55:51Yeah. That's how Kobe broke his leg. They're playing Sharks and Minnows before the game. The coach for five minutes in the huddle explains the play and then they break the huddle and then he has to explain it again for where to line up. And then it's like, we're going to do a triple reverse here and they end up running. It never works. Just literally put the kids behind the guy with the ball and hand it off. Yeah. Yeah. That's all you need to do. Okay. As promised, parents you see at a youth sporting event. I've got a list here. Oh, man. Okay. I've got a long list. I've done a lot of sports. Okay.
56:20This is probably one of my favorite ones. Just the happy to be here person. they're just there to socialize with their parents they're not really even paying attention to the game they're kind of just chilling okay i kind of like that person i have one foot in that camp except for the socializing part all right the go is really hard the refs people that's a tough look especially when a lot of the refs are like younger kids that's not great um this one my kid is really better than they are like i think my kid is better than they are and so you're constantly complaining about the coaching oh so like if the if the kid is striking out it's like he was hitting great all week he was hitting great all week yes uh the other side of this is the the parents who really do have the best player on the team and constantly brag about them like listen we know your kid is the best player you don't need to reinforce it right this is a good one and i don't mean to stereotype but this is a lot of moms the parent who doesn't know the rules because i never played the game before like what is that and someone has to explain like actually that's that's how it yeah uh okay the jerk who always comments on other kids play right like if someone and you like if the kid kicks into the wrong soccer goal and they go oh you can't do that right uh there's obviously the parent who lives vicariously through their kid because they were never good at sports uh the dad who tries to make jokes at other people's expenses that like rarely lands right like the parents don't really know each other they kind of know each other i mean at the games uh there's a tailgating parent who has like the best setup of chairs and like tents and stuff right like they go way all out, like the benches out the ass.
57:48Wait, hold on. To that part, have you ever seen the chair inside a little tent? Like a personal tent? Oh, yes. Like your single, yes. And it just gets in everyone's way. For when it rains? For when it rains? That's a good tent. All right. The coaching your kid from the sideline? Like, Timmy, center it! Center it! So I experienced that big time for lacrosse this weekend. There's parents that yell the entire time at the kid. The kid clearly cannot hear them, and they're just screaming. yes the entire time at a seven-year-old yes yes and the going too hard on your own kid is a bad one too like that's just like that like you cringe at that like what are you doing what are you doing yeah uh okay i get this occasionally secretly terrified your kid is going to be the one to mess up like if they're on a pretty good team you're just like just don't mess up just like don't be the one who screws it up i think and mine is like i i was probably way too hard on my daughter when she like or too into it and now that like i've got three kids doing this and i've seen come up like I'm the I don't care about the outcome I just care about my kid like if they like are not screwing up and they're trying their hardest that's all I care about yeah I'm a few years behind you so I think that like with the seven-year-olds it's just like not that serious I don't think there's there's not too many psychotic parents yet I'm sure I know it's coming but that's true right yes I we've started to get into that as we do like club soccer and stuff but at this point it's just cute and fun you know yes all right Rex Ben what do you got by the way good list.
59:13Credit to you. Yeah. They had an Albert Brooks profile on Atlantic about how he is the godfather of Rarigan comedy, which is interesting. And you would never really think of him that way, but they said he's repeatedly turned down various Hollywood luminaries who asked him to star in their films. Parts that went to Tom Hanks, Billy Crystal, Robin Williams, and Steve Martin. And in several cases, all the destructive of their career. He was offered the role in Big, When Harry Met Sally, and Dead Poets Society. Oh, wow. And I guess just didn't want it for whatever reason. Okay, I finished Fallout, which again was a Josh recommendation for us on Amazon.
59:47I really liked it. There was enough mystery that I'm excited for season two. It could have been one season show potentially. And I was surprised how much I liked this show. It felt like a movie that was made into a TV show. Okay, eight episodes? Yeah, my wife and I flew through this one. Okay, I mentioned Sugar before, which is the Colin Farrell one on Apple. Nobody's watching Apple. Next. No, well, I got to talk about this. for the three people who watch this show. Spoiler alert, if you're watching this show, all three of you. Wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Before you spoil it, is this a show that I might be interested in?
1:00:20No, because I'm going to explain it to you. So if you're going to watch the show, turn this off now because, okay, so. Pause, pause, pause. Let people get their phone in their pocket. All right, go ahead. So Colin Farrell, and I'm a big detective guy, private detective. I read all the private detective books. So it had all that stuff. It was like a noir kind of show. And he is really into movies and he likes to drink and he's kind of mysterious. And it's like, oh, he's looking for a film producer's long lost or lost granddaughter. And there's all this stuff going on. And like the plot is like kind of like, yeah, it's kind of seen this before.
1:00:50At the end of the last episode, the sixth episode, he's kind of this mysterious guy who think he's like this part of like a global spy network. And this is like his thing. He takes a shot into his neck. And the reveal is, again, this is literally just a private detective show for six episodes. The big reveal is he's an alien. what i kid you not the biggest w2f tv show reveal i've ever experienced that's where i left this show off was it did you like it he turned like green and blue did you like it or did he laugh i i i was i don't know what my reaction is i have to watch it now but it's i'm like that's a choice okay very crazy all right one more my son after he broke his hand we're watching Netflix movies all day.
1:01:38He likes crappy action movies. So we put on the Great Wall for him on Netflix. Don't think I've ever heard of it. 2015-ish maybe? It bombed. But it was Matt Damon, Pedro Pascal, who's the This Is Us guy, been in a bunch of stuff, and then Willem Dafoe. So pretty good cast, right? It's like a mythic, legendary tale of monsters that attack the Great Wall of China back in the day. And I guess this is just a good reminder that even really good, talented people can make really crappy stuff because it is awful. Pedro Pascal is not on. This is us. What do you think? What's the show called? The apocalyptic one.
1:02:15What's it called? We're old. Yes. Last of us. Last of us. Okay. Close enough. I rewatched on the flight. By the way, one thing that I didn't say about Los Angeles, the traffic, the traffic is out of control and for no reason, not for no reason. so we're it's a parking lot and there's traffic in new york city and there's traffic in a lot of cities but not like this where it's literally like that's why the weather wears off because the traffic the traffic feelings you get are worse than the weather feelings are good not true but i get it uh traffic's traffic's traffic is one of the my biggest pain points in life i i wouldn't be able to handle constant traffic all the time oh it's miserable so why was there so much traffic because a guy was getting a ticket.
1:03:03Now, I was joking about this with Michelle, busting her chops. Michelle is our advisor in Los Angeles. And she's like, well, did you look? Like, well, of course I looked. I was going a mile an hour. I had to look. You know who I blame? You blame the people in front who first started to look. You blame the top 10 % of the, the first 10 % of the traffic causers. It's their fault. If you're in the back, what are you going to not look at a principal? People can't help it. We really can't help it. Just keep driving. It's the other thing where you see an accident on the other side of the highway, and it slows your side of the highway.
1:03:34Yeah. That I get. Listen, accidents, if there's multiple, but for a person - No, I'm saying if it's on the other side of the median. It doesn't even impact you. Yeah, I get it. No, you look. You look. Yeah, but you don't slow down. Eh, a little bit. Okay. Rotten Tomatoes released the highest rated movies of all time. Now, this is as reviewed and selected by Rotten Tomatoes critics and users, and we know how the tomato meter works, all right? So don't at us. We understand. let's just run through the top 10. Ooh, LA Confidential is number one. That is a great movie. I mean, number one is nuts. Very good movie.
1:04:07I wouldn't put it in a great category. But it sort of makes sense because who wouldn't vote this as a great movie? You know what I mean? Like it's like, I think what this list means - It's not controversial. What this list is measuring is just, these are unanimous great movies. Okay. Right? All right. Number two, The Godfather. Number three, Casablanca. Could you just watch Casablanca already? I watched half of it. I couldn't make it through it. I can't. Old movies, I can't do it. Like, eh, I couldn't do it. Sorry. Seven Samurai? I never heard of that movie. That's from 1954. Parasite, Schindler's List, Top Gun Maverick.
1:04:39Okay. Toy Story 2, Chinatown, and Rounding Out number 10 is On the Waterfront. Again, a 1954 movie. I feel like you can't retroactively rate these movies. Because the only people who'd rate movies from the 50s or 40s are people who really love them. So you can't. Those don't count. That's a good point. You're right there. All right. I rewatched. So I saw once upon a time in Hollywood when it came out five years ago and I ate an edible, um, which was my mistake hand up because it's not the type of movie that I thought it was. And I'm, I'm, I have a low tolerance. I'm like a 2.5 milligram guy. And I think I might've done five.
1:05:12So I was a little bit zonked and the movie was just slow. I don't think I've ever heard a good story about edibles before. Like I took just the right amount and I had a great time. You never hear that story. 2.5 is just the right amount for me. For me, I have a low tolerance. And so it just wasn't what I expected. I was miscalibrated. And I just, I didn't get it. I didn't enjoy it at all. I rewatched it on the flight, having just come from Los Angeles. Like, you know what? Let me fire this up. And now that my expectations were reset to the proper calibration, I really, really enjoyed it. Sometimes it takes some time for the movies to sink in, right?
1:05:44Yeah, what a hell of a cast. Oh my goodness. I love that movie. I think it's great. Late Night with the Devil. Ben, punch this up. I got a lot of emails when this movie came out. That sounds like a Michael Batnick movie. Are you seeing this? Of course I'm seeing this. So this actor is phenomenal. What's his name? He's a big that guy, but he's better than that guy. David, I don't know how to pronounce his name. Das Malkian? He looks like he should be in a horror movie. But you know this guy. He's been in a million things. So this movie was interesting, effective, worth watching, but I'm just not sure.
1:06:18It's Tyrese Maxey in the front, Tobias Harris in the back. I'm just not sure. and these sort of movies are very difficult to land the plane on. But if you're a horror fan, it's on Shudder. Is it a great movie? No, it's not. But would I recommend it if you're a horror fan? Yeah, good enough. Lastly, speaking of horror. You need to have two, like Rotten Tomatoes has their own scale, critics and fans. There need to be a Michael Batnick scale of like an actual decent movie regular people would see versus like the deranged movies that you watch. No, but I do that. I do that. I do that. I adjust. Like I said, like Barbarian, like you don't need to be a big horror fan to enjoy Barbarian.
1:06:53Right. You and all your degenerates that email us in all these times with these crazy movies. Like you guys have your own movie scale over here. Talk to us. You don't need to be a big horror fan to love Talk to Us. Did you see that movie? Or Talk to Me? No. Great movie. Okay. Another great movie that you probably need to be a horror fan, I guess. I don't know. This is borderline because it's pretty demented. Did you see Hereditary? You've seen Hereditary. No. What? Horror movies just don't do it for me. No, personal preference. I don't, whatever. Doesn't do it. Um, I, I, I, I only had the reaction cause I, I swore I thought you did, but Hereditary.
1:07:24Uh, I think it was on TV and I was just, I just caught like 20 minutes and it's been a while since I saw it. What a great movie. What a great movie. A great movie or a great demented movie. No, it's a great movie. That's why we need a scale. Okay. It's a great movie. Hard stop. The hardest of hard stops. All right. We went in an hour 11, man. We covered a lot. Good times. You're happy right now. You got a lot of your Knicks gear on. Are you just wearing around town smiling at all the Knicks fans? I love it. Listen, I never got on a thing now. I never left. Like during the dark years of Jerome James and Eddie Curry and the Zach Randolph years and the Marbury and then Steve Francis and the Jared Jeffries years and the Bargnani years and through it all, I never stopped.
1:08:05Like were there seasons where I probably only saw 60 games instead of 80? Yeah, but I never left. So it's been, my dad took me to the garden when I was, I think, probably seven years old for the first time, six or seven. So I've been going to Knicks fans for 30 years, and it's been 30 years of just pure, pure shit. Just nothing to look forward to. You were a buy and hold investor through the last decades. Decades. So I don't know what this is like. Like game six, when we beat Philly, like that wasn't fun. It was just a lot of anxiety. It was stress, and I've never felt that as a Knicks fan. So these are new feelings, and I'm enjoying the ride.
1:08:43I can't wait until we hear a story in two months about how your ticket broker stole all your money but until then Animal Spirits at the Compound wait what is it? Animal Spirits at the Compound News.com personal emails, personal responses thank you for listening, we will see you next time
From the publisher
On episode 359 of Animal Spirits, Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson discuss: the suffocating bull market, the other side of government debt, Jerry Seinfeld on when money changed everything, consumers are finally fighting back against inflation, Wall Street translations, who is buying Bitcoin ETFs, the bear case against housing and much more!
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