In short
Animal Spirits Podcast Episode 424 Summary
Episode Title
Wall Street Strikes Back
Hosts
Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson
Release Date
August 2023
Sponsors
YCharts and Vanguard
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Key Themes and Discussions
- AI's Impact on Economy and Stock Market
- AI's Role in Economic Recovery: Discussion on how AI spending has played a significant role in supporting the stock market and the overall economy, especially in light of inflationary pressures.
- CapEx Growth:
- Major tech companies (Microsoft, Alphabet, Amazon, Meta, and Oracle) projected to spend $150 billion in 2023, $250 billion in 2024, and forecasted $320 billion in 2025 on capital expenditures.
- The “MAG7” companies' CapEx increased by 40% in 2024, compared to less than 4% for other companies.
- Labor Market Insights
- Job Market Statistics:
- Recent BLS reports indicate revisions in payroll employment, with significant downward adjustments, creating concerns about the labor market's strength.
- Vibes vs Data Debate: The hosts discussed the contrast between public sentiment (vibes) regarding the economy and the statistical data being presented.
- Real Estate Trends
- Housing Market Dynamics:
- Reports indicate that approximately half of U.S. cities have falling home prices.
- Michael shares personal experiences regarding the selling and buying process of homes, including the pressures of current interest rates and housing inventory.
- Investor Behavior
- Rise of Retail Traders: Notable increase in retail participation in futures trading, with a 56% growth reported among retail traders in the CME.
- Trading Volume: The largest trading day for SPY since April, indicating increased volatility and profit-taking behavior among investors.
- Market Sentiment and Performance
- Investor Psychology: The hosts touched on how recent market behaviors might signal a shift back to more active trading strategies and less passive investing.
- Historical Context: Comparison of current market situations to past events, pondering whether similar outcomes could occur.
- The Carvana Comeback
- Discussion of Carvana's price surge from lows, raising questions about investor behavior and whether this kind of volatility is beneficial or detrimental to market perception.
- Billion-Dollar Job Offers
- Discussion around significant job offers, including Mark Zuckerberg's offer to acquire Thinking Machines Lab for $1.5 billion, reflecting the competitive landscape for talent in AI sectors.
Key Takeaways
- AI spending is reshaping market dynamics, with significant implications for economic recovery and corporate strategies.
- The housing market is experiencing a shift with falling prices in many areas, while investor behavior is evolving with increased retail participation.
- The hosts emphasize historical context while analyzing current market sentiments, suggesting that past market behaviors could inform future predictions.
Recommendations
- Personal Anecdotes: Michael shares humorous insights from his life, including personal stories about his home selling process and experiences with his children, adding a relatable aspect to the discussion.
Conclusion This episode of Animal Spirits provides a thought-provoking analysis of the current market situation, blending economic data with personal experiences and broader societal observations. The interplay between AI advancements, investor behavior, and the labor market offers valuable insights for listeners interested in understanding the complexities of investing and economic trends.
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For further exploration, listeners are encouraged to check out the hosts' blogs, subscribe to their newsletter, and send feedback or questions via email.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Today's Animal Spirits is brought to you by Whitecharts. It's that time of the year where we talk about how fast the summer went. I can't believe it. You can't believe it. Let's move on. If you want to communicate with your clients about all of the crazy things that have happened in the first half of the year, why chart size you covered in their mid-year reset, which is their 2025 halftime report deck. All right. So basically free resource, tons of visuals, helping your clients understand what actually drove markets in the first half of the year. What could be in store for second half? Everything's a second half story, right?
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1:35Institutional quality in this context is meant to convey a level of professional rigor and expertise combined with low costs. To learn more, visit vanguard.com. All investing is subject to risk. Investments and bonds are subject to interest rate, credit and inflation risk, copyright 2025, the Vanguard Group, Inc., all rights reserved, Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.
1:57Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing. Join Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, and watching. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ritholtz Wealth Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.
2:27Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. It is the first week of August. This is usually the time of the year when everything slows down. It seems to not be happening at all this year for our business at Red Holt's Wealth Management, which is a reflection of the economy and the stock market. Obviously, the stock market itself has been interesting, to say the least, over the last week. We're still manufacturing. I know manufacturing is down, but not with our merchandise. Ben and I are rocking new shirts, the Grand Rapids Hedge, limited edition. Literally, we only printed a limited quality.
3:06It's the hottest shirt in West Michigan. And I want to give a shout to Weston who suggested this idea. So I took it. I typed it into ChatGBT. I said, make me a shirt with a title wave that says Grand Rapids Hedge. I think I said to him or maybe a Nicole account member. And they said, why not just a bush instead of a tidal weave? Because, you know, the Rapids. And I said, eh, bush looks better. And that was it. Took two seconds. So if you are listening early and you go to idontshop.com, you won't see it because it goes up at 9 a.m. Eastern, Wednesday morning. idontshop.com, Grand Rapids Hedge t-shirt.
3:44So we're getting our flooring done in our house, and everything's just a big mess. Like, all the flooring's ripped up, and they're putting stuff in, and it's a big pain. But every morning, I kind of have a meeting with the guy who's running the show. He kind of states, hey, today we're going to do this, we're going to do that. Are you actually like, do you know what he's talking about? Or is this like the oil stick in the car and you just know what he's talking about? I'm just curious. Like, when are you going to have the, when are I going to see some more progress? But because we're leaving the house at 8 a.m.
4:12to get out of their way and kids are running around. And I walked to meet him this morning. He's like, what's up with the shirt? What does that mean? That's take too long to explain. How did you explain it? I was like never mind it's just a thing don't worry about it yeah we're so we're a month out from future proof now I feel like we haven't really pushed it as much maybe we don't even have to anymore because it's taken on a life of its own but we're getting very very close and I think it's worth mentioning that because it's gotten so big like there's actually a cap this year right people who can come because we don't want people to stay like an hour away so there's what is it 5 ,000 people that are coming that can come and we are I don't think we can announce the musical act yet I don't think it's public yet but next week and I will just say this we've had some bangers last year we had third eye blind uh and was that did x ambassadors open for them was that the year before I can't remember no that was a year before okay well anyhow I'm telling you this is going to be the best concert in the history of future proof i was last year i can't but yeah it's gonna be awesome i cannot wait i cannot wait yes and we're we're doing animal spirits live right this year like in the afternoon one of the last sessions of the day right into cocktail hour our own cocktail hour i think okay it's gonna be excellent Yes.
5:42And I've already, I've gotten a ton of messages from people saying, hey, this is my - Sounds like two or three. Yeah. Well, you know, listen, I'm not a big LinkedIn message guy. Like once a month, I'll go look at all my messages on LinkedIn. And I just saw like five or six saying, hey, I'm coming to Future Proof for the first time this year. All right, that is a relative ton. Right? That's a lot. Yeah, so sign up. FutureProofHQ.com. All right, I feel like for the past 18 to 24 months, people have been kind of skirting around the idea that AI essentially and the AI spend essentially saved the stock market and saved the economy from a potentially worse outcome from the inflation and all this stuff.
6:24And it was like a, it was a handoff. Like the reason the soft landing happened is because of AI spend. But it feels like this is the week where everyone finally put numbers to that. Like we've seen some charts, but it just seemed to collectively everyone kind of went, oh my gosh. Yeah. It really is. Yeah. But wait, I just want to give credit to Josh. He was early to that. Yeah, Josh was the one who was saying, like, ChatGPT saved the stock market. Because that was 2022. And I'm pretty sure, like, in mid to early 2023, when that was still sort of like a joke, at least it was said a bit tongue-in-cheek.
6:55100 % right. It's unbelievable. Yes. And the market sniffed it out, right? So this is from Luke Kawa at Sherwood News. This is showing Microsoft, Alphabet, Amazon, Meta, and Oracle. And this is like each step is just a little higher in terms of spend. And then... Wait, I don't think you described what it's showing. It's showing the 12-month forward estimated CapEx for these five companies. I think the reason why this all came together this week, the way that it did in terms of the narrative, is because we had earnings from these companies, right? And then the juxtaposition of that and their commitment to spending with softer economic data really, as the dude said, tied the whole room together.
7:38So the Financial Times did Meta, Google, Microsoft, and Amazon. MAGA stocks, is that it? They said they spent a combined$150 billion in 2023, $250 billion in 2024, and it's forecasted to be$320 billion this year. It's just unbelievable. This is another crazy one. So spending by the MAG7, this is in terms of R &D and CapEx, was up 40 % in 2024. For the other 493 stocks, CapEx increased by less than 4%. so they're like they're they're spending gobs and gobs of money the wall i wonder if i wonder if this the well not i wonder uh it remains to be seen if the all of the capex that the hyperscalers are spending is going to translate into productivity gains for the other full 93 right that's the question yeah that would be the great thing right if if if you're one of these other companies who didn't have to do the spend but you still got the efficiency gain so this from RenMac, I think, is sneaky, like wonky chart of the year.
8:37Not just chart of the year, like it's only for wonks. But they say so far this year, AI CapEx, which we define as information processing equipment plus software, has added more to GDP growth than consumer spending. And when you consider the fact that consumer spending makes up roughly 70 % of the economy, this is an insane chart. Absolutely insane. Like history book kind of level chart here. Yeah. It shouldn't be this way. Some more context on this. Cali has another chart similarly showing the inflation-adjusted change by GDP component of AI and tech investments, which you just mentioned, versus consumer spending.
9:18And the change so far, AI is up$152 billion. I think this is year over year. Versus consumer spending is up$77 billion. Now, it doesn't mean that AI spending is more. It just means that the change is greater. Or the increase, right? Which is still wild. It's still insane. Callie wrote, last quarter, consumer spending totaled$16.4 trillion. So let me set this up. The question now is like, can we have a softening economy, a weakening consumer, without a commensurate softening in the stock market because the hyperscalers are powering so much of this? And maybe. Well, I don't know. We'll find out.
9:57But Callie said, last quarter. Which is kind of what we did have a little bit in 2022. The economy softened a little bit. They started spending. Well, the stock market got killed in 2022. Wow. Oh, okay. Right. Last quarter, consumer spending totaled$16.4 trillion. While AI's contribution to GDP, calculated as business investment in information processing equipment and software, was about$1.4 trillion. All right? So$16.4 trillion consumer spending,$1.4 trillion in terms of AI's contribution. So consumer spending dwarfs it. Yes. But that's still an insane number. It is. It is. AI investment is still peanuts compared to the sheer power of our financial decisions, even if it has technically grown more in dollar terms this year.
10:37So Callie is, it sounds like Callie is skeptical that we can - She's doing the denominator blindness thing. She's saying like, put a denominator on this. Yeah. But also, like I know we're gonna talk about this later. The question is, all right, so consumer spending and the economy is slowing down a little bit. For sure. But is it rolling over? Is it going to contract? And we'll see. That's the hard part. Oh, this is a wild chart. This is from Joey Politano. Data center versus office construction. So U.S. office construction spending. When the charts come together like that, that's just, that's all you do.
11:21Versus data center construction spending. And they are almost touching tips, which is remarkable. Look at the chat GPT launch there. Yeah. Do you have anyone in your life who can't say Chet GPT, who always says Chet GBT or Chet GTP? Do you have anyone in your life that does that? Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay. I got a lot of that. So Paul Kodrosky did this piece on AI spending, and he has this great chart that shows infrastructure capex as a percentage of GDP by era. And he shows the railroads in the 1800s, which was like 6%. That's one of the history's unknown bubbles. I wrote about it in my Don't Fall For It book, that the railroads are this massive, massive, and it was one of those bubbles that really helped people because they laid so much rail down that it helped people go from city to city and move and all this stuff.
12:08So then he shows telecom that bubbles and then data centers. And data centers are getting up to like 1.2 % of GDP. So listen, my problem with this is I don't want to be one of those experts on an earlier version of the world where you go, listen, every single other time this has happened, it's led to a bubble and then a washout. You, you know, even if the investments pay off as they did in the dot-com bubble. I know we all have the talking points. Yeah, they, they, it could turn out that they overspend by a few hundred billion here or there. And then that leads to a washout. Then what? Um, so that would be the historical playbook of listen, expectations get too high.
12:44They spend way too much. Someone starts pulling back spending and going, wait a minute, we spent way too much. Even if this AI stuff works, what if we just overspent by like$400 billion and didn't need to spend that much? then there's a washout. And then they still, maybe the MAG7 still has AI supremacy. That would be the historical playbook for how this plays out. And even if it doesn't have to be a dot-com washout, it could be a, listen, some of these stocks fall 30, 40, 50 % again. That would be the historical playbook. Is that too easy at this? Because I feel like a lot of people think, no, no, no, no.
13:17It's a simple baton handoff. The AI spend happens. You get the ROI. These companies keep going off to the races. what's more likely? Lay that out one more time. So the two options are overspending, expectations too high, you get some sort of washout. Like the dot-com bubble? Not even that level. I can't imagine that. I don't think you can say we're going to have an 85 % washout. That's ridiculous. These companies actually make money. Yeah. They didn't make money back then. So that's the expectations too high. You get a washout in tech stocks. Option two is no. They spend all this money. AI magically works.
13:55ROI. Boom. I think that we perfectly throw the needle. That seems unlikely. All right, let me offer up a Grand Rapids Hedges and wearing the shirt. Okay. At some point in time, I guarantee expectations will get ahead of ourselves. I don't know when that's going to be. Are we there? Are we past there? Maybe. NVIDIA, for example, which by the way, I sold two tranches and I will be out this week. I don't want to be greedy. I'm up 80 % or whatever it is. NVIDIA is... See, you're doing the ground protection. I'm holding on for a bubble. Yeah. This is unlike... We've like switched roles here. Usually, I'd be the one selling.
14:34NVIDIA is... Todd's on us a chart. And he says, just about a 1 % difference separates NVIDIA from the entire healthcare and industrial sectors. I mean, come on. Can it go to$5 trillion? Can it go to$6 trillion? Can it go to$10 trillion? I don't see why it couldn't. So the most likely candidates - But it's almost bigger than every industrial and every healthcare. I'm sorry. I, you know, all right, that's just me. The most likely candidates for expectations have gone too high in spending is, it's just, it's Facebook or NVIDIA saying like, listen, we're pulling back a little bit. Those are the two most likely candidates, correct?
15:11That would cause the market to really roll over. It's going to be Facebook or Microsoft, Meta or Microsoft or Google. Yeah, I guess Microsoft. But listen, I have no, like you and everybody else listening, who knows where we are. Yes, but that's a historical playbook. And my line of thinking is it's almost too easy to follow the historical playbook, isn't it? Yeah, I get that. It really is following that to a T. Well, I also think we're very focused here on the stock market. I know you and I have been using ChetGPT more and more in our daily lives and some of the tools that are coming into our industry.
15:47I think because we're so focused on the stock market, I think maybe we're losing sight of the fact that it really is magic. Matter of fact, Robin was telling me about something that she used yesterday and she couldn't believe it. And we were talking like, yeah, it really is magic. And every single executive at all of these companies are saying that this is the biggest revolution of our lifetimes, biggest technological revolution, far bigger than the internet. And I think that we maybe speak too much about the market and not enough about like the way that these my question is in terms of changing the world and but how do they make money though like how are they going to make money on this well chat gbt just disclosed their revenue i think they're raising 40 billion at 300 billion dollar valuation and the growth numbers are insane so the other thing is there are no counterfactuals but josh mentioned the point that like 2022 this thing really turned the ship and stopped us and helped us off landing.
16:46But the trade policy stuff, the trade war that happened earlier this year, if take away the AI capex, if that doesn't happen, that downturn is probably worse and we're probably not back to all time highs. Yeah. But then you start doing the takeaway, takeaway, takeaway, takeaway. Yeah. But this is a one variable thing you can say like this, this thing really saved us probably from the trade war because AI kind of trumped Trump here. You would think. You would think. There's a lot. There's not a whole, not to say that, you know, the economy is like unraveling. I think that would be a stretch, but housing is frozen.
17:19The economy is not really growing. Yes, that's a big piece of it. Like, how could you have a recession in housing for three years and the economy is still fine? AI, right? So here's a question that people have been positing lately. Did I use that word correctly? I think so. That sounded really smart. If, let's say, interest rates fall in a meaningful way, go from like 7 % mortgage, I know they're falling already, but go to like 5%, is that actually bad for the stock market if rates fall? Because finally, a lot of this money that's been locked up goes into down payments and goes into housing, and it doesn't go into the stock market anymore.
17:54So could falling rates be bad for the stock market? No. No. Okay. I mean, yes, we've heard from listeners. That's a galaxy brain take. There are people that are putting their, what would be their house down payment into the stock market. And maybe at the margins, that's propping up some of these stocks. But the idea that rates are going to fall and all the money's going to come out of the stock market to buy real estate, come on. Right. It's a little too cute. It is. Sometimes those cute things are the ones that get you, though. All right. Carvana is absolutely insane. We talked about Open Door a couple weeks ago.
18:34Carvana was down 98.99 % at the lows. And it was a meme stock. And the funny thing is, it's still not back to the levels of the meme stock that it was at in 2021, early 2022. I thought it meant, no, it made an all-time high. Did it come back? Okay, maybe my charts will. So it's up 9 ,000, 10 ,000 % or something from the lows. Do you think that this kind of price action, when people see this is actually a bad thing for investors to see. Because they did like, okay, just bottom fish. It's simple. Like this is, this is an outlier, obviously. Yeah. The answer to that is this bad for investors is it depends, right?
19:18It depends on the investor. True. I just think seeing this kind of, this is, this seems like a once in a lifetime kind of move. I think you're right in the sense that everybody who is in the market knows about Carvana, and it will encourage people to look for the next Carvana. If that's what you're asking, I think that's fair. Have you looked at the Peloton chart lately? Like, Peloton is - Peloton's pretty good, right? I mean, it's a stock that's still 96 % off the highs. I don't know how you get it. I don't know how - Credit to Eric Jackson for holding on. At least I think he did. I don't know how you have the stomach to make a 9 ,000 % return.
19:58Can you imagine? If I buy a stock at a dollar and it goes to two, I am doing backflips. Right? It goes to three, I'm buying a yacht. Speaking of backflips, my son has the ability to do a backflip on our trampoline. That's impressive. That takes balls. It is because I don't have the, you need to something in the back of your head that like, the switch doesn't go off and it just shuts off and lets, because like my brain. The danger switch, right? Like I can land on my neck. So my, yeah, I've joked that my son is going to be the kid in high school where they say, Hey, George, go do this. And he'll be, okay.
20:31Run through a fence. Yeah. Yeah. He'll be that guy. But we, we, our favorite thing we put on our back of a pontoon this year is a diving board. I think I sent you some videos. It's awesome. It's a total game changer. It's a diving board on a boat. And he tried to do a backflip. I've been goading him into it all summer going, dude, you can do a backflip on the trampoline. You have to try to do it on the, on the boat, on the diving board. I guess this isn't a very good story, but maybe I'll send Duncan the video to show. But he gets halfway around and you can see his face like, oh no, I'm not going to make it.
21:03And it's like the oh no song. His body just kind of stopped in midair and just whap. And he's like, see, that's why I don't do it. All right, I tried it. All right, so on Friday, it was the biggest SPY volume day since April's tariff tantrum. $86 billion is a good size freakout, double any other ETF or stock. Why was this? I think this was the combination of data slowing and maybe Trump firing the BLS, head of the BLS, and also a combination of just profit-taking. I don't know. We've gone straight up, and any excuse to freak out, investors will take. And that was like a, what, a 1 % down day or whatever?
21:52I think it was ended at 1.5%. I do think that I'm a little surprised that we haven't had more flash crashes. That just because of the way the market structure is these days. But isn't it less, not less. I feel like in 2010, I don't know, I'm making this up. It was a lot of algos. And not to say there's not a lot of high frequency trading today. There is obviously. But do the retail investors and their participation make flash crashes less likely now that they're 25 % of volume? I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I just think there have to be air pockets. That's just my line of thinking. Why? Because? Because of how fast things move.
22:35I mean, I guess we kind of did have a couple flash crashes when the market fell 5 % back-to-back days. It was orderly. Yeah. I don't know. It's orderly. Don't worry. Our colleague and the writer of Abnormal Returns, Tadis Iskanta, and I have been talking. And we've been going back and forth in this for years blogging about it. I think he was the first one to write it. He's always been in the corner of there's never been a better time to be an individual investor in terms of the access you have to strategies, the low fees, the ease of access, zero-dollar trading commissions, all the great stuff that we have.
23:07Do you think anybody would describe, any average investor would describe the market that way? It doesn't feel like it, right? Maybe just because of the nation's discourse? Yeah, but if you just think about how easy it is to invest versus how it was in the past when in the 80s and 90s, you'd have to literally go down to a brick-and-mortar building and write a checkout. And then a few days later, they'd buy a mutual fund for you and charge you a 6 % sales load or whatever. Now you fund your Robinhood account and you're trading five minutes later. So I think we've got a case of Wall Street striking back.
23:35It's not necessarily just Wall Street, but it's also people's behavior. So this is from Barron's. During the second quarter, CME reported more than 90 ,000 retail traders, a 56 % increase trading futures for the first time. Fifth consecutive quarter of double-digit growth. And they say this is an incredible feat for any business, but especially for an established exchange. Major borses tend to rely— Borses, great word, right? Don't use that very often. Major borses tend to rely on market volatility and well-established customers for growth. So they're saying, listen, retail traders don't typically trade futures.
24:07The fact that they are is kind of insane, and this is unheard of that this is happening. Actually, let's do a plug. We're doing a talking book with CM. I'm very excited to talk to them. Yes. As a shareholder, but also I'm curious about what's going on here. Yeah, I want to hear about this. All right, so here's a cool chart from Twitter that I found. Robinhood generated$265 million in options revenue this quarter. That's a quarterly record for the online brokerage platform. The Wall Street Journal had a piece, and it says, in this frothy market, it's boom times for brokers like Robinhood. They show trading revenue at Robinhood surged 65 % in the second quarter from a year earlier.
24:41But you know what's funny? You said it's Wall Street back. Like, Robinhood is like, or got started as like the anti-Wall Street. I guess when I'm saying Wall Street back, and I want to throw in things like private equity and private credit, interval funds, and all this stuff. Just, I feel like we hit a low point of passive investing and low fees, and now it's back to insane activity. And this is just good for Wall Street being back in terms of being the middle man. How about this, Ben? And taking a cut. Everyone's back. Everything's back. If you're not back, you're in trouble. I saw Baltrunas tweeted last week that ARK just had a record inflow in a single day.
25:15like if you're not back now you might never be back it is kind of crazy they they survived like an 80 % washout ARKK right yeah and people kept I know people finally took some money out but more or less people kept putting money in and they're fine I think they're having a good year this year they're up yeah they're up 30 % this year so that that's snapping I just think the Wall Street comeback thing is just like as a middleman Wall Street finally is like oh we're back we're making money again on this stuff where for years and years, it was lower fees and lower. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right.
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25:49Here's another example of everyone being back. Balchunas. Balchunas is so back. He's on fire this episode. He tweeted two different YieldMax ETFs in the top 10 in one day flows. Never saw that before. That's crazy. So ULTY. What is that? Is that? Let's see. Is that what I think it is? Ultra option income. Okay, I don't even know what that is. That's not what I thought it was. All right. And MSTY, I think that's the month. Is that the micro strategy? Anyway, those were in the top 10. Yeah. Yield max micro strategy option income. Okay. Those are in the top 10 in daily flows. It goes VOO. This was a day last week or two weeks ago.
26:34VOO, XLF, ULTY, VTI is on the list, and MSTY. So it's funny. ULTI is one of these ones where there's, I get, I'm sure, I'm sure they're selling these really short dated options or whatever. It says the dividend yields 112%. But then if you look at the performance of the price chart, obviously it goes down because you're just relying on the income. Um, even on, I don't think this is like the dumb money that people think it is. I think that, I think that there is obviously, obviously an element of people. I think, I think this is dumb money. Sorry, man. This is dumb money. No, hold on. Hold on. Let me just make a case.
27:10obviously 100 % yield of course this is dumb money obviously there is an element of people that don't understand what's happening here and think that this is like alchemy but i 100 % yield oh my god yeah but all right fine let me say this i would i i would bet that the percentage of people who understand exactly what they're getting is higher than you would think that's all i'm saying dumb money outweighs the smart money in these funds though of course i'm just saying there's more people i would some people understand more people who know what's going on yes just go into go into your these things with your eyes wide open yeah no but the retail crowd is much smarter than it used to be oh that i agree with yes the people who want yeah there are people who do understand this and maybe like jump in and out of these things depending on when the payouts happen and yeah i that's that's fair i've been saying for years that the retail money is not dumb money anymore they are now the smart money all right so let's talk about the economy um arnie tedeschi The 253 ,000 two-month downward revision to payroll employment is the largest since at least 1979.
28:15So, you know, legitimately not great. Cali has a chart showing the three-month average of non-farm payrolls. Not quite negative, but falling sharply. I mean, I don't know how else to describe it. The economy is slowing. So every time this has happened, and it feels like it happens once every six months, call it, for the past three, four, five years, people freak out. Okay, this is it, and then it doesn't happen. When you say people freak out, you mean like people on Twitter, or what do you mean exactly? Yeah, the macro people, just like, okay, this is it. Everyone, Matthew Klein didn't seem to be worried about it.
28:52He said the job market is still strong. The U.S. economy, here's his take. Like the U.S. economy slowed the first half of 2025, but not enough to raise the unemployment rate, hit wage growth or make a dent in the worsening inflation picture. This is not a crisis, even if the situation is marginally worse than at the end of 2024. So I keep I've been saying for a while now, like, what if all the slowdown we keep seeing is just normalization? Yeah, but hang on. No, who's saying crisis? No one's saying crisis. But I think every time that we see a slowing, people kind of just get nervous and go like, what if this is actually it finally?
29:25what if this is it? It never seems to kind of come. Obviously, one of those times is going to happen. He's saying the change in net immigration has been massive and could explain most, if not all, of the observed slowdown in aggregate real growth rates and payroll unemployment. Oh, okay. But that's a real thing, right? Yeah. And he's saying, like, the employment-to-population ratio for 25 to 54, which is prime-age workers, has essentially been the same since 2023. Now, he's saying, listen, the administration's response to these numbers is a crisis, however. firing the head of the BLS and saying, I don't trust the numbers.
30:00It is kind of funny how all this information we have in the, like in the past, no one ever would have thought to even think about this because no one was smart enough to even really explain to these, that's a few wonky people, how this stuff actually works. Right. People kind of just take it at face value and be kind of naive. Yeah. Now everyone's an economist. Yeah. And so now that we have more information, more information actually makes people less trusting. And it's funny, people are more trusting of vibes now than they are of data, even though there's more data than it's ever been before.
30:28So Chamath, for example, tweeted, non-farm payrolls are total garbage. So I asked Grok, which, okay. Anyway, Andrew Cohen responded, I worked at BLS for years and can tell you that revisions are completely legitimate. many field reported stats simply come in late after the close of the month. Would you prefer that they just ignore the newer stats that come in? In fact, as a senior BLS economist, I myself led a study to detect any systematic direction of post-publishing inflation revisions. So to see if there was like any shenanigans or nonsense. It was a perfect bell curve, a normal distribution centered around the mean of 0 % revisions.
31:13So some on the high end, some on the low end, but all in all, it's a wash. Economists take their responsibility seriously. There is no political bias, just the facts as well as they can be calculated. So he responded to himself or quote tweeted himself and said, wow, these comments are blowing up. This is Andrew Cohen. What y 'all don't understand is the number of economists and analysts involved in producing BLS statistics and revisions. in order to collude or fudge the data, literally hundreds of people would need to be in on the conspiracy. But amazingly, there has never been one leak. Take off your tinfoil hats and look at reality.
31:51I'm glad that he spoke up and said something, but think about, I guess I look at the revisions as like they're trying to get the numbers right. Just think about how complicated a 30 plus trillion dollar economy is. To think that you could have these real-time statistics of employment for 300 plus million people or whatever, it's not realistic. Yeah. Anyway, needless to say, firing the head of the BLS for revisions is, in my opinion, very dangerous. Yeah, of course it is. But I just think people saying this is kind of banana republic stuff, I don't think there's so much data now and other ways for people to understand what's going on.
32:34you can't lie to the economy eventually. All right, so there's a story in the Wall Street Journal, and I keep wondering, like, is this weakness actually real this time or is it just vibes again? And they have this story said, American consumers are getting thrifty again. And they interview all these people about what they're doing. And they talk about how CEOs of Chipotle, Kroger, and Procter & Gamble are telling investors that their customers are more strapped or appear to feel that way. There's a lot more consumer anxiety, says Dirk Vandeput, chief executive of Mondelez. So they make Oreo cookies and Ritz crackers and something called the junk food my kids eat.
33:08Or consumer preferences changing and people don't want that shit anymore. That's possible. But it reminded me of this story from 2022. Remember this one? Wall Street says a recession is coming. Consumers say it is already here. Shoppers are getting squeezed and the money is disappearing fast. It feels like a boy or cried wolf moment. And I wonder if you're better off when trying to think through the economy, if you're better off being late than being early. Like everyone wants to be early. Yeah. And calling it ahead of time. There's no glory in being late. Yeah. But I wonder if being late is the better option.
33:38I don't know, man. I think a lot of these articles, like, you can find any number of people all over the country who are always experiencing what looks like a recession to them. Yeah. There are always industries and people struggling. And they are in the business of getting subscribers and getting people to click. And I'm not trying to paint all this with a broad brush that media is all fake and all that sort of stuff. But I think, yeah, I think a lot of this stuff you got to take with a grain of salt. All right. Hey, you said it right that time. Thank you. We don't do a lot of victory laps here, but I'm going to take a victory lap.
34:11Go ahead. That I predict this. Yeah. Mohamed El-Aryan. Per the Financial Times, chart below. U.S. wage growth for the lowest paid has now slumped below that for the highest paid. Why didn't he need a considerable inequities, inequalities in total pay and wealth? Hashtag inequality. He still uses the hashtags. Hashtag economy. Hashtag wages. I love Muhammad he is the Magic Johnson of finance Twitter oh yes that's a good call but I said people are going to be nostalgic for the 2021 2022, 2023 economy at some point that everyone hated at the time there's going to be nostalgia for that period of high wage growth and the ease of switching jobs and finding better employment and higher wages he's saying listen it used to be that the lowest wage quartile was getting the highest growth in wages.
35:01Now they're the lowest. This is a bad thing. People like you were saying, no, the other thing was a bad thing when growth was too high. But I'm just saying, it's going to be... Wait, what are you saying you were right about it? I said people are going to be nostalgic for that high wage growth period, even though everyone hated it because inflation was high. But where's the proof that you were right? He's saying, listen, because at that time, the lowest wage cohort had the highest wage growth, and now they have the lowest wage growth. because guess what happens? We're back to normal. Higher wage growth for people who make more money.
35:36And he's saying, oh, this is bad. It's inequality. I think, all right, I guess we'll rehash this debate. I think that soaring wage growth, which directly drives inflation, is bad for the nation because people adjust to their pay raise immediately, but they don't adjust to how expensive everything is. And then people get pissed off. I think we have conclusive evidence that what I'm saying is true. Yes, because, yeah, wages are, I did that. Prices are, no, you did that. Exactly. Yes, but I'm just saying, people are going to look back at that period of high wage growth and, like, you could make more money just by switching jobs.
36:11They're going to go, oh, my gosh, that was glorious. But, no, at the time, people hated it. Hated it. So, billion-dollar job offer. I missed this article. This is a real thing? Mark Zuckerberg offered to acquire Thinking Machines Lab and recruit its employees, including Andrew Tulloch. Zuckerberg offered him a package potentially worth$1.5 billion, but the guy declined. All right, can I say one thing about this? In terms of like looking back on this as a holy shit, that was the craziest thing ever moment. Wait a second. I remember when Mark Zuckerberg declined a billion dollar offer from Yahoo.
36:47And I remember when Instagram sold for a billion dollars. There was 11 people at the company and we all thought it was the craziest thing. And I remember when WhatsApp got sold for$23 billion and it seemed like the craziest thing. Why is this any different? So this guy's, this Facebook, Zuckerberg is offering to buy this guy's company for a billion and a half dollars. And he said, no. So? No, he's just an employee there. He doesn't even know him the company. Someone else owns the company. This is just, I think that's the difference because it's wages. It takes money to make money. Am I right? Yeah.
37:21Honestly, they're the canary in the coal mine eventually. They have to be with the much money they're spending. I don't know. I think it's crazy. I feel like that guy's on the benefit of the doubt now. Like he knows a lot more about his business and what they're trying to do than we do. A couple of schmoes wearing these dumb t-shirts. But it really is insane that he tried to pivot his company in three, four years ago to the freaking metaverse. Remember that? The picture of him in the metaverse. They should just change their name again to like Facebook AI or something like Facebook FAI book. You know, I don't know.
37:55credit to him though. He, he pivoted off. And he pivoted again. Credit to him. remember when people were buying real estate in the metaverse, that was an actual thing that actually, that actually happened this, this decade, people were buying real estate in the fucking metaverse. You still have that parcel. Uh, yeah. Right on the lake. Uh, you just effing. You never effing. Uh, cause I was so stupid. There's just, there's been a lot of dumb stuff that's happened. All right. This is from census bureau, census business, bureau business trends. If you can believe that I don't, which shows the percent of establishments using artificial intelligence in production.
38:30And it's only, it's not even 10 % yet. Like to say that we're early is an understatement. It has not even begun. I think there are a lot of civilians who just don't interact with it much at all yet. I would say nine out of 10 people don't. Right. Maybe more. Yes. And it's going to be, it is funny because when people finally do interact with it more, it's going to be just keep getting better. So they haven't gone through all the phases where it didn't work very good. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about crypto for a second. So Asnes tweeted, he said, for anyone who thinks today's markets are normal or just normal, I remind you that the market cap of Fartcoin is still$1.4 billion.
39:10And then he quote tweeted himself and said,$950 million. The error is coming out of the Fartcoin bubble for now. See, this is the point that I was making about market caps. This is not a market cap. There is not a billion-dollar market cap in Fartcoin. I understand supply, price, blah, blah, blah. It's not a billion dollars. It's just not. I agree. We are butchering market cap. We are saying, all right, stocks, crypto, shares, coins, price, times. It's not a market cap. It's just not. So one big whale. I'm not saying it's not dumb. Like that, I'm not. Yeah. But all right. So one big investor in Fartcoin goes to sell and the whole thing collapses, right?
39:47Now, not knowing anything about the supply and distribution of Fartcoin, if there were one big whale in Farcoin. And I don't know if there is or if there isn't, but yes, if there were one and Farcoin any coin who tried to sell$70 million, I'm pretty sure that they would find out very quickly the market cap is not the market cap. All right. This was interesting from Will Clemente.
40:08MicroStrategy bought, he quote tweeted this, MicroStrategy bought 21 ,000 Bitcoin at a price of 117 ,000. Wow. So he quote tweeted and said, But Saylor bought$2 billion and Bitcoin barely moved. Galaxy sold$8 billion for a whale and Bitcoin barely moved. That feeling when you realize Bitcoin is a real liquid micro asset now. Right. There's not, these big moves don't move the needle anymore is what you're saying. He said that he did some work with somebody else, Ox Ben Harvey recently, and found that the Bitcoin treasury companies are about half a percent of daily price impact on average, maxing out around 10 % on days of heavy sailor buying.
40:46The market is just much bigger now. It is funny to think that a lot of the volatility of the past, whether it was on purpose or not, was probably being just pushed around. Remember, it felt like people could manipulate the price in the past, and that is not a thing anymore. That's where you had air pockets. Balchunas tweeted, US crypto ETFs took in, this is insane, $12.8 billion in July. the best month ever $600 million a day about double average as a group that's more than any single ETF did including the mighty VOO most all around I mean that's that's unbelievable $600 million a day it's not stopping huh um all right I would love to get a I would love to see a breakdown I know you can't do this because you don't know where it comes from how much of it is new money versus how much of it is coming from the exchanges and stuff.
41:42And it doesn't really matter. But I would love to see how much of this is. I think a lot of it is new money. Saying, all right, this is real. Speaking of that, this seems very important. JPMorgan Chase and Jamie Dimon have been pretty vocally anti-Bitcoin. JPMorgan Chase and Coinbase launched strategic partnership to make crypto buying easier than ever. So this is what the report says. The initial phase of the partnership includes new features for mutual customers, including direct bank to wallet connection. Through JP Morgan's secure API, Chase customers will be able to seamlessly link their bank accounts to their Coinbase wallets.
42:18That seems very significant. Transfer of Chase ultimate reward points. Chase customers will be able to transfer their reward points to their Coinbase account at a one-to-one redemption. That seems very significant. This marks the first time a major credit card rewards program will be used to fund a crypto wallet. And then lastly, beginning this fall, the ability to use Chase credit cards on Coinbase. For the first time, customers will have the ability to fund their Coinbase accounts using Chase credit cards, which seems significant. You might say dangerous or crazy, but whatever, it's happening.
42:48This is a big deal. This is a very, very big deal. I thought you could use credit cards on Coinbase before. No, debit cards. You couldn't? Oh, that's right. Okay. But with all the money going in ETFs, I just can't see how much trading on Coinbase still matters as much anymore for retail. I think it's still very big 24 seven. But also why use cash to buy crypto when you could use credit? Am I right? Worry about it next month. That's that's next month guy's problem. The reward points thing makes sense to me. I am a big believer in just using all your you saved your reward points, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
43:22It's funny you mention this. I was talking to my friend at the beach over the weekend. He has 700 ,000 chase points and another couple hundred thousand delta points. I'm like, dude, what are you doing? What is this? The inflation is being it's like he's hiding his money under the mattress. The inflation is eating away at that every day. I think it's an OCD thing. He just can't bring himself. He like, he's still paying for vacations with fiat. I'm like, what are you doing? Why? Because yeah, those points are worth way less over time. Yeah. These age like a rotten diaper. Spend it. Yeah. Use it.
43:49Just get it back in cash. So let's talk real estate. Somebody has a chart showing the percent of US cities with falling home prices. It is about half. Yeah. About half. Lance Lambert tweeted. That's a meaningful number. Yeah. Lance Lambert tweeted, the estimated number of U.S. home buyers and sellers actively in the housing market. And not surprisingly, especially during the post-pandemic period, buyers outnumbered sellers by almost two to one. And now there are allegedly more sellers than buyers. I was curious how they measure this. And we don't need to read it, but we'll link to this in the show notes if you want from Redfin.
44:26Yeah, they have their own. But here's the thing. Are these sellers, and they've been waiting, they've been on the sidelines, because they've had the 3 % mortgages. Are they willing to lower their prices a lot though? That's the question. Like if they still have the 3%, are they just, are they testing the waters or are they actually going to be willing to lower the, because I would love to, if I was in the market, I would love to just throw low ball offers all over the place and see what hit. Because I wonder if a lot of them are going to be like, no, I'm not lowering my price. I'm ready to share my housing story in a second.
44:56But before we do that, he also shows that he breaks it down by zip code. because obviously real estate is a very local phenomenon. He shows active housing inventory for sale compared to pre-pandemic levels. And he shows... This is what we showed before. It's all the west and the south and the southeast. Is that what we were showing before? This is... This is just the number of housing units for sale pre-pandemic versus now. So there's more houses for sale in Texas and Florida. All right. So it's showing way less inventory in the Northeast and the Midwest and more inventory in areas that people flock to like Texas and Florida, right?
45:37Yeah. That's what this is showing. So if you were a baby boomer, we'll get to the condo thing in a minute. Condos on the streets. Now is the time, like if you haven't bought a condo in Florida, now is the time to do it if you're retiring. Because people are unloading these and can't sell them. Oh, really? Well, so this is from the Wall Street Journal. They say the condo market is floundering. Four charts that explain the downturn, and I put a few of them in here. What's the story here? A lot of it is like these assessments they're getting and the insurance. So look at this price change year over year.
46:09Condos are falling way faster than single-family homes. Single-family homes are still seeing growth. Condos are now falling in price. And they say that just the premium for condos is falling fast because they're getting all these assessments and people flock to them too. So if you want to buy a condo, now is the time to do it. Like people can't sell condos, especially in Florida. The market is just totally dried up. And so people are, they said that's the place where people are offering concessions when you buy because they have these assessments and these insurance from the new, because all the condo buildings had to get up the code and offer these special assessments.
46:43And they're charging people a ton of money to live there still. All right. So you spoke about low ball offers and are people lowering their prices? So, so this is from Redfin, although via daily chart work, although the median sale price hit a record high during the four weeks ending July 20th, it's up just 1.6 % year over year compared to five to 6%. So new home price, I'm sorry, not new home prices, home prices are still hitting all-time highs, but the rate of price increase is slowing down dramatically. So I sold my house and it is wild how the story of me selling my house is a story of how life works with everything in terms of just like all of these things that had to happen for this to happen.
47:23The butterfly effect, if you will. So I bought a house in Long Beach. It's a decent movie, by the way. I enjoyed it. Thumper. Remember that character? I bought my house in 2020. I had a single tenant in Long Beach. Sold it in 2025. Was not planning on selling it. I thought she was going to stay there. She told me like a month before her contract was to be renewed that she was leaving. And I'm like, oh my God, I got to find somebody. Let me just sell it. Done with this. had she left or had she not left abruptly, obviously, well, not obviously, I wouldn't have had, it would have been much more difficult to have the cash to buy the house that I'm buying.
47:59So there was that kicking it off. Then being on the beach with my friend at the time that I was where the Zillow notification popped up. And he said, like, he like gave me permission to buy this house. I was not even, it was not even a thought in my mind that we were going to leave. Right. I was thinking about like, Oh, I can't leave. Like, Hey, I love my house, speed, mortgage rates, blah, blah, blah. And so if I was anywhere else in the world, I would not have been moving. So anyway, on the story of selling my house, we have a great house. It is a - So you're saying, sorry, it was serendipitous the way things worked out for you to buy a new house.
48:35Yes. Like everything in life, right? Like every - A lot of things, yeah. And so I was pretty curious to find out what it would be, the price and everything like that. but my house is a colonial and in my town that is a rare rarity most houses are either high ranches or splanches which I'm not quite sure what the difference is but whatever or a split level I don't know if those are all the same thing splanches that's a new one to me okay yeah I don't know for some reason it just doesn't click on my brain I'm not sure how many days did it take from when you listed to when you sold it was less than a week right yeah so we had an open house and Robin for some reason we have like seven ring cameras in my house so I felt like I was like the NSA like spying on these people I was following them from room to room.
49:17I was like, shh, listening, these are the buyers. So we had six people show up to the open house. We got two offers and that was it. Now, part of it is time of the year, right? I think like the buying season is more in the spring. Part of it is the price of the house, but most of it is interest rates. We spoke to a lot of people in the community, friends of ours that would have loved to buy our house because like it is it's it's a one of the bigger houses it's got like the open concept i guess is what they call it um but most people can't afford to get out of their mortgage obviously did you guys highlight the mudroom right away beautiful colonial brand new mudroom yeah um so anyway only but only two offers and That was it.
50:09Now, slightly over ask, but that was it. Two offers and nobody even saw the house after that. I think we had one showing. That was it. So no buyers. So low supply of house, but low supply of buyers too. Now, I guess on the flip side, like all you need is one buyer. Right. It doesn't matter how many offers you get. You just need one buyer. But I was very surprised. Maybe I shouldn't be in hindsight, but I was very surprised at the limited number of interest. And again, it's not rocket science. It's just interest rates. It makes sense. So anyway - It is one of those things too where you think you know what your house is worth, but the market is going to determine it for you.
50:45Yeah, I got very lucky because there was another house. I was recommended to list at$100 ,000 less than I actually listed it for. But I saw a house pop up on the market about the same time that we were going to sell ours that was listed for$100 ,000 to$200 ,000 more than mine. And I think my house is nicer. So I said, thank you, sir, because they gave me the cover to raise the price. Anyway, so now we've got to pack and move and everything like that. But you know what? I'm excited to purge. We have so much junk. Feels good. We have so much garbage. We haven't gotten... So our kitchen is still full of stuff that we got from our wedding.
51:20That you never use anymore? Or just like, I'm ready for new plates, I think. I'll just buy new glasses on Amazon. I don't care. Just throw everything out. Yeah, I agree. Start over. Yeah. Anyhow. Exciting. All right, that's the story. You're going to be in Newhouse by when? Before school? That's the story. Probably not. Probably after Future Proof. Yeah, that's a future you thing to worry about. Yeah, I don't have to worry about it now. How are you going to pack up all those books over there? Those are not coming with me. Get rid of all your books. I'm saying goodbye to the books. Bring them to the library?
51:55You know, they don't take donations. Really? Yeah, I ask. I mean, I will donate them somewhere. But I'll keep... I don't know. I'll keep some. All right, real quick. There was another one of these. I thought it was from last year. Someone sent me this, and it says, millennials are richer now, so why can't they stop worrying? I'm like, wait, we already read this before, but it just came out. This person says, you only have to watch the big short ones and go, oh, my God, it just makes you jumpy. And then they also said this 45-year-old lawyer in Boulder, Colorado, is a homeowner with ample retirement savings, but worries his wealth could suddenly disappear.
52:28He keeps an emergency fund that covers expenses for years. They're saying there's still millennials who are scarred by the great financial crisis. All right. Well, how about this? Pretend you're a reporter. Ask me a question. I'm a millennial. Okay. How are you feeling? I'm feeling great. I just bought a house that financially makes no sense compared to the mortgage that I have today, but you only live once. I want to be on the water. I'm optimistic about my future ability to pay for this house. And so, yeah, I feel very blessed. Thank you. Says Michael Barrett. In early 2025, the average net worth of millennials and older members of Gen Z was 31 % higher than baby boomers and 20 % higher than Gen X was at similar ages.
53:05So yeah, you're doing fine. You're ahead of the game. Thank you. I thought this was good. This, maybe this is, we've been talking a lot about the definition of wealth and some people are saying, sorry, sorry. There will never be an article where it's like, Hey, millennials are actually okay. Right. People are feeling good to read that. That's true. Yeah. It worked out. Sorry. Sorry about all those articles. It actually worked out. Yeah. That's social media. Um, this is interesting. So someone says, Hey, hello, Ben. I think it's a DM. Holy crap. I realized something while I was listening to one of your podcasts this morning.
53:31It was said the middle class has the most of their wealth tied up in housing. It popped into my head that my 401k IRA Roth IRA is now worth more than my house. I guess this makes me upper middle class. By the way, I live in Oklahoma city. Love your work. Um, that's a pretty good definition. Is your, is your portfolio of, is your portfolio of investment bigger than worth more than your house? That's a pretty good definition of wealth, right? I would still, there's still some geographical stuff in there, but if we have to ascribe some sort of line in the sand, I think that's pretty good. All right, real quick plug, since people said we don't do enough self-promotion.
54:03At the Unlock last week, just type in the Unlock at YouTube. I talked about the 4 % rule of Bill Bengen, who came up with the rule on his own. I think it was actually 4.15 % in this original paper, but the 4 % rule. This is a topic that has come up more and more because all the baby boomers retiring need to figure out how to spend their assets. Very good. Go give it a listen. All right, let's talk streaming stuff. there's still something off about Netflix shows I don't know what it is I don't know if it's because they're algorithm based or it almost feels like it could be AI but we tried to watch this untamed show with Eric Bana where someone falls off of a mountain and they try to figure out who it is and it just it's like they get good actors they had a Julianne Moore, Kevin Bacon show earlier this year my wife watched and I tried to watch it with her and it just it feels like a computer made it up and their algorithm made it up you're right and it is and it does because I've heard many people say this.
55:00They genuinely write scripts and make TV such that you can be looking at your phone and still get 90 % of it. That's the thing. We turned it on and both my wife and I are on our phones and I'm like, why are we watching this if neither of us are watching it? Right. Let's turn it off. But that's how they make it. So you're right. It does feel hollow. And I feel like when's, okay, here's a good metric. When's the last time you saw a show on Netflix that you said, I can't wait for season two. That's true. It's funny. Even Squid Game, which I really liked. When season two came out, I said, eh, don't eat.
55:32I never watched it. Okay. So every show. There hasn't been a show there. I'm sure there's an exception. But for example, FUBAR is the poster child of this. So I very much enjoyed season one to the extent that you could very much enjoy this completely trashy garbage action show. I don't even know. I don't know what that is. It's Arnold. Okay. That's all you need. I thought that was a movie. I didn't realize it was a show. All right. So, what on Netflix tweeted, as predicted, FUBAR has been canceled after two seasons. And my thinking is like, why did they make season two? Now, they know their business better than I do, but I didn't watch season two.
56:07I had no interest in season two. Viewership fell 76 % from seasons one to two. And they will learn. And I bet you there will be way less shows, way less seasons two on Netflix. But the problem is, once you have a relatively successful season one, like obviously you want to do a season two because it's, you know, cheaper, cheeser, cheaper, convenient, maybe less risk. But you're right. They do feel hollow because they are. Yeah, that makes sense. But I just, I can't do it. All right. The Wall Street Journal had this piece about goodbye, gentle parenting. Hello, F around and find out. And it says, parents are ditching a softer approach to childbearing that has dominated the culture and taking a harder line.
56:46It's funny to read this because it's just talking about how we were parenting when we were growing up. Wait, is this true? Are we turning on the Wall Street Journal? I know it but it's talking about this woman who said like her son was spraying her the water gun at the campfire and she's like stop and he wouldn't stop so she threw him in the pond or something oh I like that yes and it says it's this idea that parents can ask and warn but if a child breaks the rules mom and dad aren't standing the way of repercussions it is funny because this is just this is how parenting is supposed to work I agree like you're not supposed to let your child run all over you yeah but it probably does happen more often than you think what like this the nice parenting.
57:23Oh, it's okay. Don't you see that when a kid does something like you're at the pool or whatever and a kid does something and the parents are right there and don't do anything? Yeah, it drives me nuts. I am very much a, no, if your kid does something, you fix it. Yeah, if my kid's doing something, I run over. Hey, stop that. My son was, they're playing the beanbag toss game at the ice cream place the other night and they're throwing the beanbag pallet things at each other and I'm like, stop. Someone's going to get hurt and he's shucking them and I'm like, stop. Last night, we were at Point Lookout, which is a, there's a restaurant on the water and there was a kid on the beach throwing sand, not just at the kids, but there's like a doc that goes over the beach and he was throwing sand at people who were eating and this one guy turned around and goes, he's like literally shoulder shrugging.
58:10He's like looking for the parents. Like, how is this happening? How are you like your five-year-old just chuck sand everywhere? Yeah. I like this idea. Like do something. There's a lot of people who just don't do it. It's kind of funny they have to have a story about it um all right i got one quick midwest midwest nice story my wife is gonna hate me for telling it but i gotta tell so we order food from a counter at our like our our boat club and the kids love it because they can go they have our name on account and they just go and they order and they can get ice cream or whatever we tell them to always order and like a month ago the kids ordered and it was kind of busy but not too but usually the food takes 15 minutes it's mac and cheese and chicken nuggets and sandwiches right it's pretty easy um but we waited like 45 minutes for the food and the kids like dude what's going on where's our food so i go up and ask.
58:51And I, hey, do you have our order? And they got our order wrong and they messed it up. And my wife is like, you can't do that. You can't, you're going to make, you're going to, we're going to be the jerks that ask. And I'm like, no, no, you have to ask, right? Wow. That is, your wife is very nice. So she's very Midwest nice. And so it happened again this week. And all these people who ordered after us are getting their food and I'm starting, and I'm getting hangry and I'm like, can I just go check please? And she, no, we don't want to be those people again that do it twice. And so we wait and wait.
59:17And finally she goes and checks and they had lost our order. How long are we talking? Like legitimately? 45 minutes. Come on. Yes. You waited 45 minutes for chicken nuggets before you got up? Yes. And I, and my wife was like, no, I'm sorry. 15 minutes. She's like, you can't be the one person who does this and we get a reputation. And I said, why can't you just ask him? I said, hey, just checking on the status for order. And, and she got mad at me. Like she got mad at me ahead of time, even telling me because she knew that I was right. Like, don't be such a jerk about it, you know? I'm just saying we should have checked.
59:52Sometimes you can be too nice because you don't want to become a Karen or whatever. That's what her worry was. I get it. You know, you get mad at people that take their time in line. I don't know if, I think I forgot to mention this to you. Maybe I did. People at the movie theater. Did I do this last week? Okay. I'm sorry. If you are in line and there's a line and you go up, you can't be looking at the board figuring out what you want. You either want popcorn or you want something else. Yeah, you should have your order right here. I mean, come on. You should have been looking the whole time. You want popcorn, you want nachos.
1:00:25Get your fat ass out of the way and move it. So the same thing is true at fast food or something. You can't get up to the counter and ask a question. Like you have to know what you're getting to order. All right, let's do some recommendations. I feel, I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing every new movie I see, but I've just seen a lot of really stinkers lately. And I feel like a lot of the TV and movie podcasts don't want to be critical of TV and movie, of actors and movies anymore because they have them on their show to promote it and stuff. So they can't say, they can't be truthful. Unanimal Spirits were truthful.
1:00:54And I saw two really weird movies and I didn't like them. Okay? I watched Friendship with Paul Rudd and Tim Robinson. I like Tim Robinson. His show is good. He's from Detroit. Right? I got to represent. It was way too weird. I was really excited about this one. Like I give this a 4.2. I turned it off halfway through. Okay. I tried it twice. So I'm thankful that you did because I saw your score and I, and I've been, I've been made to watch this movie. So you lowered the bar for me. Um, I enjoyed this movie. This is definitely not a you movie. You don't, you don't like weird movies. It was, it felt like he was in a different movie than everyone else in the movie.
1:01:30That was the point. It was, the point was like, listen, I, I, I definitely, I chuckled at a few of his lines. Like some of his lines were funny. It just, it was so weird. It wasn't, it was just way too weird for me. I didn't get it at all. This is the type of movie that you either enjoy it or you hate it. I don't think anybody would see French and would be like, yeah, it's okay. It's polarized because it's very strange. I'm sure there were people who really liked it. I just thought it was terrible. I did like it. I think, honestly, you lowering the bar so much helped. So thank you. And there were still a few lines of his that he said that I chuckled about.
1:02:03But I'm like, it felt like he was in a different movie than everyone else in the movie. Yeah. I also, I enjoyed the aspect of like middle-aged dudes meeting each other and the awkwardness of like. Yeah, that, that, the beginning was. New guy, group of friends. Yeah. And I want to see what went, but fair enough. All right, 28 years later, I have to take Umbridge with this. This was a good movie. What did you not, I mean, then why did you, why did you watch it? I enjoyed the first one. I liked the second one. I really liked the first one. Well. Listen, I know Danny Boyle. I saw this in the theater, so I had a different experience than you did.
1:02:38I know that Danny Boyle does bizarre movies, but it felt like it was five movies in one, and what the hell with the ending? The ending was a little bit odd. The ending I didn't love too much. It just, the movie was way, like I thought the stuff at the beginning with the dad and the son was good, and then I just thought it just, it went off the rails, and it was just kind of like a, huh. I just thought it was weird. I gave it a 4.9. Sorry. I loved the first one. All right, stick to coming-of-age movies. Get off my lawn. These are not for you. All right. I rewatched the original Happy Go More because I wanted to see it's been so long I've always just caught the clips I wanted to see like I didn't like the sequel at all I thought it was an awful movie and there was a great video online of someone like everyone you know who's trying to say it's not that bad and talking about oh the cameos and the friend is like well yeah was it a good movie but yeah they had a cameo and Sandler's the best but was it a good movie but in just he's always just nice to everyone was it a good anyway so I rewatched the original and I still just died at everything the entire movie it just it still worked so well and it just made me mad again that they even made a sequel but i get why they did it finally um i have to explain 1980s movies my daughter because we watched karate kid this week we're still in our sports kick and uh she's like she she liked it but she's like why what's with like the cringy music in the montages and the there was just parts of 80s movies that you just have to get over the cringe and she's like why did why was this some of this stuff so cringy.
1:04:04And I was like, that's just, that's the 80s. They didn't know any better. No one knew any better. I mean, the 80s is such a long time ago for a child. It's like talking to us about the 60s when we were kids. It's a foreign land. But she still liked it enough where she wants to watch the second and the third one. So did you see any movies this week? I see nothing in here for you. I watched Friendship. I'm surprised. So you liked it. I did. I enjoyed it. I'm not listen it is a very particular cup of tea so I'm not like flabbergasted that you didn't like it I understand exactly it's like people who like to drink Sambuca or something like oh come on it's not like that no I don't know I'm saying some people like it most people don't so Robin is getting very fed up with my Godfather obsession okay because because I rewatched the first one that last night she walked in and I was watching Godfather 2 she goes oh no no no no and she turned it right off you have to do back to back that's what I do Well, I have to finish Godfather 2.
1:05:02And then I have to watch the offer because I finished the Godfather audiobook. And then that will conclude. And I listened to the rewatchables, obviously. I liked the offer. The offer was too long, but I liked it. That'll conclude my Godfather experience. All right. I am pretty dry. No TV shows, which, you know what? It's enough already. I could use a break. Yeah, it's a good break. All right. Grand Rapids Hedge t-shirts at idonshop.com. Check out the Unlocked. Do you have another live show this week? I do. I'm talking to Wes. So Wes Gray... Launched. Thank you, Ben. We have a channel for advising on YouTube.
1:05:35West Gray launched their 351 exchange ETF to arousing success. $450 million launch. Unbelievable. Tax alpha is so hot right now. Yeah, it really is. Speaking of which, we talked to Alex Morris for Talk Your Book. But I don't know. This is not tax alpha. This is like diversification arbitrage, I would say. Okay. Tax arbitrage. Yeah. Tax avoidance. Legal. Email us. Animalspirits at the compoundnews.com. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Appreciate it as always. Love your emails. Talk to you next time.
From the publisher
On episode 424 of Animal Spirits, Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson discuss: how AI bailed out the stock market and economy, a history of capex bubbles, the Carvana comeback, investors are trading everything, the labor market debate, vibes vs. data, $1 billion job offers, where home prices are falling, Michael buys a new house, condos are crashing, FAFO parenting and more.
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Ben Carlson’s A Wealth of Common Sense
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