From a Basement to a Billion Dollar Brand: The Greatest Founder Story You Never Heard

25:14And at that time I had realized and learned, because this is a new space for me, a new industry, but I learned that there was never a new brand that had only been in business for like a year and a half that was having the opportunity to enter into retail and the textured hair care space. And so because I never focused on going into retail, I really focused on just building and they came to me. And that's when I knew that I had something that people wanted to have a piece of because I was solely focused on building the saying that goes, you know, if you build it, they'll come. Yeah. That was literally like my, yeah.

25:52And you were going to say there's one other moment. Yeah. And then the other moment was when we actually launched into retail. So we launched in Sally's and I know it was a defining moment because I would never forget the date. It was February 19th, 2016. And we launched and we sold out. We only, they tested us in like 95 stores because that was a big test. Yeah, that's a big test. But the demand grew so fast that when we launched the day of, we sold out in two hours. And when we had, you know, our mavens, our customers going, harassing the store managers and calling Sally's corporate, demanding for Miel to have more door count.

26:31That was the other defining moment of like, yeah, I think we've struck gold. You've really did. So you're three years into the brand at that point. What did you and your husband, who's the COO of the company, what did you guys have to give up? Like I'm trying to understand the trade-offs because again, you're both working regular jobs for all intents and purposes. So to get you through that runway between this kind of small launch that you did of a hundred products through to retailers knocking at your door and then the launch at Sally's, like what did that take for you two to be able to get there?

27:07Yeah. So one of the sacrifices was, you know, we had, we were used to two incomes, you You know, being a nurse, I had a good salary. Him being an engineer, he had a great salary. And going down from two incomes coming in the household to one, because at that point I had left my job. So you decided I'm all in on this. Yeah, I decided six months after I launched that, you know, I decided to leave. Fair. There. I mean, it literally is life and death. It's life. Yeah. So I'm like, my job is too serious for me to, you know, try to sacrifice that. So I decided to walk away from my job so I can solely focus on my oil because my oil was consuming so much of my time and my brainpower because I was always thinking and creating in my mind of how do we, you know, attract new customers.

27:54So for us, that was the biggest sacrifice in the beginning was leaving a steady job and narrowing it down to one income. And then for my husband, when he decided to leave, because he still stayed on board for about a year and a half, because he's like, he really thought that he was going to, you know, stay at, he was working at UPS. I'm going to ask my best. He's like, I like what you're doing with your hair, but I'm not 100 % sure. Yeah, he's like, I'm staying here. I'm going to climb the corporate ladder. And he's like, you know, we'll have, you know, my corporate career to fall back on. And he was working nights.

28:24and it came to the point where like, you know, we were sacrificing sleep and, you know, time with our kids and there was just no way that we were able to like operate everything and still work corporate jobs. So he finally decided that he was going to leave and we were not paying ourselves at that time either. So. Wow. So how did this actually impact your personal finances? Oh, it was impacted a lot. Like our personal, we charged up credit cards. We went into like credit card debt because we still had to like maintain. And, you know, we tapped into our 401ks because our 401ks is kind of like what helps sustain us and got us over and also help fund a little bit of the business as well, too.

29:08So we hung on that until we couldn't hang on for any more. And then once we got the opportunity to go into retail, we started to see a little bit of profit from our e-commerce platform because our margins were like great because you're it's all you. You're not there's no middleman. So we were able to like use some of those profits to kind of like sustain us as well, too, until we got into retail. So when you get into retail, of course, they cut into your your profit margins. And then that's when we got into trouble. That's when you go into trouble. Let's talk about the trouble. Because before we get to the glory, we know there's an ugly part, the messy middle.

29:49The messy part. When the naivety is kind of over. So talk to me about what that looks like. Because I think that, again, we only see the really glossy part. We look at you now and, you know, incredibly successful family. Thank you. What did that time teach you? And what actually happened? Like how, because I'm assuming at this point, Monique, you guys, you're quitting your jobs. You clearly know that there's something amazing here. But at this point, you still don't really have like advisors and people around you. Like you guys are making it up as you go along. And when you make it up as you go along, you inevitably make mistakes.

30:26So what did that time look like for you guys? Yes. So, you know, we had one mentor at that time that we entered into retail, which happened to be our sales broker. So she was helping to broker the deals in retail. So she was kind of like a guiding angel in the beginning because she really helped educate us on the industry and retail distribution. Where'd you find her? So funny story, we found her through one of the beauty supply stores that we were selling at. It was like a smaller chain beauty supply. And we were selling so quickly out of her store that she was actually friends with our sales broker.

31:05She's like, I see an opportunity for myself. Yeah, she said, I see it. She said, I see. And it really wasn't for her because once you go into retail, it takes away from her business. So this was really just her genuinely wanting to help. That's so nice. And she said, I have this sales broker that she understands like distribution, Target, Sally's, Walmart's of the world. She can really help get you into these chains. And, you know, at the time, I was, I didn't know anything about retail. So I'm just like, oh, okay, great. Yeah, you know, people always talk a good game. and this is sometimes how we get in our own way because I was blocking that blessing because of my childhood trauma.

31:44Like just not trusting. No, of course. I feel like we were all raised not to trust somebody. Someone's coming to you with a big golden shiny thing. I'm like, what? Yeah, you're a little skeptical. Yeah, you're like, okay. Totally. Everybody can get me into retail at this point. So, okay, long story short. And also you don't know how it works, right? You don't even understand that to get into a target, to get into a Walmart that a broker is needed. And it wasn't my goal. It wasn't even my goal at that time. Like I was like, I'm going to go into retail year five. Yes. That was my goal. And so she asked me about maybe two or three times.

32:14Have I, cause she gave me Jermaine's number and she's like, have you called her yet? Have you reached out to her? And I'm like, no, not yet. So finally my husband, we're all on a call together. And my husband's an aggressive, you've met my husband. He's an executor. He's like, we got to get stuff done. And he gets on the call. He's like, you haven't called this lady that she's been telling you about. And I'm like, no, we'll get around to it. Like, we don't even know this lady. Like, how do we know that she can do what she says she can do? So my husband calls her and she flew in right away. She looked at our analytics on our back end e-commerce and was blown away by ourselves.

32:50And she actually did what the lady said that she could do. And she was almost like a mentor for you in the early days. Yeah, so she was like a mentor. So she came on board after we, you know, got it. hired her? Yes. Was she your first hire? So from, she was our first strategic hire. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Correct. That's unbelievable. Yeah. All right. So what were the mistakes? Because again, you're, you start to, you're in Sally's, you start to expand your retail footprint. You're obviously selling through your own direct to consumer platforms. When did it start to kind of go wrong? Yeah. So it went wrong because I think it's important for any founder, you got to know what's coming in and what's going out.

33:32And even though like that's not, it may not be your lane of expertise, you got to find the right people that understand that space and that are experts in that space. And, you know, ask a lot of questions and do as much research as you can to have a good set of understanding of like a little bit about what they do. So they're not like just blowing smoke over you. Right. And that was the error that we made because we had, you know, our accountant team that was, you know, doing our books as we went into retail and didn't really understand the space. So you have what you call trade spend in the retail space, and then you have your marketing spend.

34:13So the accountant that was working on, we didn't have a CFO. We had an accounting like firm. They were mixing our trade spend and our marketing spend together. So we thought that we had more money to spend in marketing than what we had because... So you ended up really overspending in marketing. We overspend like a lot. Yeah. Which warps everything, right? I think for anybody that's listening, this idea, because you'll be acquiring customers really quickly, but it means that everything that you're seeing isn't really true because you're overspending to acquire a customer. And all of a sudden the whole thing, like all of your data is out of whack, right?

34:49Yeah, our data, our books were trash. And that's what's so difficult. Because again, I think in the early days, I mean, I'm highly dyslexic. And so my first hire is always an internal finance person, because I don't know what's happening unless that person is sitting right next to me and translating it for me, because I don't see the numbers and I don't see the patterns in the numbers as quickly as somebody else might do. But I think that when you outsource that financial, you know, function in the beginning, you lose touch with it a little bit, right? That distance doesn't help. You need it like close to you.

35:24A hundred percent. And I mean, obviously we didn't know that. No, you don't know what you don't know. And so we were trusting this firm to manage our books and they were a firm. So not only were we clients, but they have many other clients that they were managing as well. So you also lose that like touch of like being close to the business. Like they're only doing what they're, you know, what they're receiving, but not digging deeper and asking further questions and not having relationships with the retail partners and the marketing consultant team that we were working at. So they're not even being very thorough and, you know, monitoring our spend.

35:56So that's why they ended up booking, you know, trade spend and marketing together. And so, you know, we realized that, OK, shoot, now we're in the hole and now where do we get funding from? And so our next step was we wanted to apply for a line of credit. So we ended up getting a line of credit from the bank. And again, we use our line of credit incorrectly as well. We had the line of credit, but not having the right people to help us understand and manage the line of credit. Does that make sense? Yeah. So now the money that we were in the hole with marketing, we're still spending, but we're spending and we're pulling from the line of credit.

36:33Which is costing you expensive money. Yeah. I mean, it's a slippery, slippery slope. It's a slippery slope and the line of credit should have been used to hold inventory. Yeah. So now we're strapped. We have all of this great momentum and the marketing works, right? Everyone knew about the brand and the brand was like exploding on the outside. Just costing you a gajillion dollars. But it was costing us. We were in the hole. So when you lift up the hood and you look underneath, you're like, whoa, like this is not good. This is not good. Did you ever feel like giving up? Like, was there a moment where you were like, I don't know what I'm doing and I can't do this?

37:08Absolutely. I felt like giving up at that point because when we use our line of credit incorrectly, you know this. Now that's my lifeline. Oh God, that's not working. And we put our house up. Yeah. So that's. Oh my God. I had like a sweat burst then. Like literally. But the great thing about it is I can laugh about it now. You're good, babe. So you can laugh about it now. At the time though, you're again, young parents, you've got this amazing opportunity and it feels like it's slipping through your fingers. Did nobody ever say to you, like, don't put your house on the line? No, no one ever said that.

37:44Which is so crazy because I remember like one of my earliest lessons was don't use your home as collateral. No one ever told us that. Which you said. And for us, that was the only way that we were able to get the line of credit. Right. We didn't have assets for them to like lend against. So our home was our collateral. And so when the banks are knocking at your door and they're calling your line due and they're threatening to take your home, that's when I'm like, okay, I don't know if we're going to make it. If this business is going to sustain this and that's how you know a good business, can it sustain under pressure?

38:29Can you sustain as a leader under pressure? It's a huge signal and a huge sign. So how'd you get out? Talk to me about what that looks like. Yeah. So how, so it's such an interesting story. So my husband and I, we were pretty desperate and we were talking to different investors and really just pitching our company because the company was doing great on the outside. So people were coming to you? Consumers, not investors. Not investors. No, not investors. We were pursuing investors because we need it. We were basically two,$3 million in the hole. And as an investor, that's not necessarily attractive, right?

39:10No. So we were, you know, pitching the bright side and the upside of the country, the not country, company, the future of like the, what Miel could be if you just believe in us and believe in our vision and believe in us as people. So we ended up talking to this one investment group that were, they were a newer investment, friends and family. group, they also had experience in our industry. So we felt some synergy there and we felt, oh, like you guys know what we've, what we've gone through. You know, the mistakes that we've made, like you understand, you can feel our pain because you've been there.

39:46And we went through, we'll get there. So we went through at least six months of diligence with them. And so they finally came back with an offer and they said, okay, we're going to give you$2 million, but we want 40 % of your company. So you didn't do that deal. Absolutely not. But here's, but it wasn't because I had the knowledge to say, no, I'm going to turn my back on this deal. We, we wanted to do the deal because we needed the money to survive. And so we needed more than$2 million. And for me, when they presented this deal, it was something in my spirit that didn't sit right, but it was like I'm fighting against my gut feeling of not wanting to do this deal, but I'm also fighting that we need the funds.

40:34Yeah, you're desperate. And so they ended up backing out. Thank God, because they said this investment, yes, this investment is too risky. We don't want to just pay for your debt. We want to invest in growth and we're not. They shall remain nameless because Because I wonder how they feel now. They know who they are. They know who they are. We know who they are. Let's just say that. But thank God you didn't do that deal. Because that is what we call like really, that would have been really cheap money for them. Oh my gosh. That would have been devastating for you. So cheap. And actually not even giving you the runway to do what you needed to do to get out of the hole.

41:13And not just giving me the runway, but also the expertise. Because I don't even feel like they were going to add value for like the future of where we want us to go as a brand. But this is really important, Monique, because again, when people take money, often it's, they go out and they raise in a moment of desperation, right? I don't think your situation is particularly unusual. And so that desperation really starts to cloud judgment. I love that that female instinct kicked in for you and you were able to say, ah, this is probably not right. And you procrastinated long enough that you actually put them off.

41:45But people don't really understand what good money looks like. So I'm assuming you eventually found it. So maybe you can talk a little bit like that because you, at some point, you did actually go out and raise money.

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42:36So after that deal went south and we did not try to force the deal back open, you know, we said we're just going to have to figure it out. And we went on a quest to talk to different investors. So what happened was Richard Lou Dennis, who was the previous founder of Sundial Brands, he sold Shea Moisture for like a billion dollars. He started a fund called New Voices and his fund was solely dedicated to investing in black women. And so I remember I met him in 2015 and we always just remained friends and very cordial. And I remember having a conversation with him a few years prior to all of this investment fiasco when he sold.

43:13And I said, wow, like I want to do what you've done, but I want to do it even better. Right. And he's like, I got you. Whenever you're ready, just like come and have a conversation. So I remember he said that and I called him up when we were looking for investors and I'm like, hey, let's just have a meeting. You know, we want to pitch to you. We're looking for investors. And we pitched to him the same pitch that we gave the previous investors that turned their back on us. And when we gave our pitch, he like literally looked at us and laughed and he was like, your problem, those problems are like been there, done that.

43:46Like he really understood to my point earlier, like he had built a brand. So like the problems that we were going through, sometimes when you are going through things as an entrepreneur, you think you're the only one that's going through that. Right. So it's always refreshing to hear someone has gone through something similar and they have made it on the other side of that. And he's like, look, you know, let's have a conversation. You know, I'm interested in investing and come to find out this is how aligned the story is. The banker that had been threatening us to take our home, our loan was in workout at that time.

44:22The workout guy happened to be college roommates with, like, I can't make this up. He happened to be college roommates with New Voices head of investments. And so when we had a conversation with him, he's like, I'm going to call so-and-so. I'll call my friend and tell him not to take you home. Exactly. You're like, please do. Let him know. That's my friend. I'll let him know we're investing in you guys. You're going to come good on the line. Do you know how much of a weight was lifted off of us just from that conversation? First of all, I can't even imagine. but it shows you the strength of business relationships, right?

45:00Because I always say, you never know where like the help is going to come from. And so - Never know, and that's why you always be nice to people. That's what, you've got to be nice to people. You've got to be nice to people and you've got to realize that actually your relationships are going to be in the strangest places. Like I've always made friends with the bank, with the factors, with the people, you know, it's like the less sexy people, right? Because it's like at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, that's your network. They're the ones who are making the decisions. They're the ones who can really help you in a bind.

45:29They're the ones that have seen it like all the way down to bankruptcy. So they actually understand the unlocks. They understand the ways. I mean, that's more of a relationship factor that happens, but it's like, you need those people. So let's talk about it. You take an investment. Do you remember how much you raised at that point? Yeah, so he gave us a new voices, invested 5 million. Okay. For 10%. Okay, so not two for 40. Okay, just saying. Thank you very much. Very decent. I mean, you see like a difference. And that's why like, you know, sometimes rejection is our protection because I turned around and had an amazing, better deal.

46:08Not just on the monetary side, but also from an experience side and an infrastructure point of view and somebody to guide you through what was going to happen next. All right, my girl, we've got better stuff in your story. So here's the thing. How many raises have you actually done for the company? Yeah, so we did a raise. We did 5 million for 10 % in 2020. So we closed like right before COVID hit. Boom. Thank you. Absolutely scary. Timing. So in COVID, we saw 4X growth because of that investment. And then at that time, I told my husband, I said, I think we should go for a raise. Because we had gone through such of a struggle trying to raise.

46:43And I remember my CFO telling me at that time when we were struggling, he said the best time to raise money is when you don't need it because it gives you leverage. So now we have 4X growth. Stop one second. Let's just rewind that for the people at home. Right? the best time because we spoke about the desperation moment. That's when people can and will just take advantage of you. It's when you don't need the money. And you have leverage. You have leverage. Yes. And so we became profitable for X growth. And I said, we should do a raise. And he's like, are you sure? I'm like, yes, we're going to do a raise because, you know, at that point, I started to see the trajectory of where I wanted to go.

47:19And I knew that I wanted to have an exit and, you know, having mentors like Rich Lou and seeing like the process that it took to have a successful exit. I knew that I wanted to start with private equity to help increase my value. So you're in learning mode the whole way through this journey, right? And I think that that's really important because even the way that you speak today, it's like, I knew I needed this. It's like, I knew I wanted private equity. I knew an exit was on the horizon. I knew like, so what does that even look like for you? Like how and who did you learn from on the way up?

47:50I study people. So there can be like a brand or a company that I become super obsessed with. And I'll study. I'll watch every interview that that person have done. I read every book, every article that that person has done. And, you know, I think I share this in my book and I think I told Rich this when he had sold his brand Sundial to Unilever for like a billion six. I put that on my vision board and I put my husband and I face over. I didn't do that. I did. Because I needed to see it. I said, this is what I did. I did a real vision model. I had to chop that guy that up. Like, I'm so serious about my visions.

48:29And so, yes, I actually did that. But that's a skill, right? Like, even when you think about this idea, because again, so many people struggle with finding a mentor. And so many of us don't have access. And so I think that I'm very similar to you in the fact that I made people my mentors who didn't even know about it. in my head. And as a result, I'm going to read everything. I'm going to be your stalker. I'm going to watch every interview. I'm going to watch the way you speak and the things that you've done. And I'm going to like dissect them because that is a really important part of it when you don't have the access.

49:03Yeah. And that's exactly what I did. Like, and I'm a very visual learner. And so, yeah, like Rich was one of my mentors because I studied his playbook and I did have the opportunity to have access and ask questions and utilize some of his resources. And, you know, I'm proud to say like, you know, and humble enough to say like, I don't know everything, but one thing I do know is I know how to ask a lot of questions. And sometimes if I don't know the right questions to ask, sometimes the best thing for me to do is just to sit and observe. Yeah. And watch everything. You don't need to have an opinion on everything.

49:34Like you don't have to be the loudest person in the room. You just have to be humble enough to know like, okay, what can I learn from each person in this room? Because I don't want to be the smartest person in this room. So he was an instrumental mentor. He introduced us to his investment banker and that's what positioned us to do our private equity raise. That was a six figure investment. And you know, at that time, no, I'm sorry, not six figures, nine figures, nine figures. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. So wait a minute. You did a nine figure investment. You went from raising five million to raising a nine figure investment.

50:09And please tell me at this point, are you taking some money off the table? This is not all going straight into the business. Yeah. So that was the great thing about the leverage that we had was because, you know, raising a nine figure investment and it was so powerful because I was the first African-American woman in the textured hair care space to raise that much. And I still maintain majority ownership. So I didn't even give away, you know, all of my ownership. I still had a lot of leverage. And because we were so profitable. Because you were so profitable. Because we were so profitable. And this is so important.

50:39It's like you had basically put money in the center of your plans. You had built a profitable company. And as a result, you were able to go out and do a further raise on your own terms and take some money off the table. Take that money off the table. Right. So that's like the really, like the kind of important parts. You take money off the table and you're also increasing the value for your company. Yeah. So none of the money that we raised from Berkshire went to our balance sheet. That was all secondary. I mean, first of all, like, what do you feel like in this moment? Yeah. So, um, and you know, Emma, to me.

51:12Were you still living in the original house? Uh, were we still? No. No. So you've moved out of the house that was going to be taken from you? No, no, no. I'm sorry. We were still in our original house. The house that they were trying to take. Yes. Okay. So you were still there and you get all this money. Yes. What do you do? What do you do? I felt like I deserve this. Yeah. You did. Because I worked hard for this. I went from the banks trying to take my house and threatening us for us to be homeless. to now taking money off of the table that was pretty life-changing. Like I felt like I worked hard for it and I earned it.

51:43Well, that's because you did. So I'm glad you felt like that. And don't nobody tell you any other way. No, no, no, no, no. All right. We know that you work with your husband. And so I want to ask you a little bit about that because, you know, I work with my husband too. And you're also a mother. And we need to talk a little bit about that. But on this business journey, you're now in this kind of beautiful position where you've taken some money off the table. You've de-risked what it is that you do. And you've kind of paid yourself for this like grueling journey. We sold to P &G 18 months later.

52:12Well, then that's enough. That's where I'm going. I'm going there because that to me is like why you are sitting here. P &G, for anyone who's sitting here thinking P &G, P &G, Procter & Gamble, a one of one. We talk about Unilever. We talk about Procter & Gamble. It's like when you create a company in this space, you are trying to sell it to one of a handful of people, Procter & Gamble being the gold standard. And so I wonder what that looks like for you because it is such an amazing moment, but it's not an easy moment to transact with a Fortune 500 company like that and thinking about what that means on the other side of your business.

52:53So can you just talk me through? Yeah. So when we decided to enter into a process to sell to P &G, we again hired another investment banker that helped prepare, you know, for, you know, what does a pitch deck look like? You know, what do we need to do to get things in order? How do we even pitch and have conversations with these strategic companies to get them even interested? The great thing about P &G was that they were interested. They had been watching us for a very long time. And that's why when I tell founders, when you are building a company, always build it like someone is going to buy you.

53:28Right, because you never know who's looking. So you have to operate like a Fortune 500 company. She's giving us the gems out here. I'm like, write it down. Another reason, that's the pen and paper time. It's like, write it down, build the company. Build a company like you are going to have it acquired, even if that's not your goal. And what do you mean by that? Like, talk to me about how you think about building a company like somebody's going to buy it. Yeah. Infrastructure and like systems and processes, you know, having the right people. Like we had to hire C-suites. Such as? Yeah. Such as, you know, a CMO.

54:04Like, I mean, of course, like I started the brand with marketing, but I'm not, I didn't go to school for marketing. I'm not a marketing expert. No, you don't have to build a five-year strategic market. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't know how to do that, but yeah. Why would you? I wanted to learn. Like the people that I hire, I want to learn from the people that I bring on board. A CFO was extremely important, right? Because we have to make sure that - Yeah, we're done with those old accountants. That's for sure. Yeah, we wouldn't know more. So we definitely had to have a CFO. We had to have a VP of operations.

54:33Like those were like some of the key hires because that was what helped build our infrastructure and prepared us to be ready for when a P &G came on board. We had to make sure that our manufacturing was solid. And we had multiple manufacturers, not just one, because you lose leverage. Again, you can't, you know, put your manufacturers against each other to have the best pricing so you can have the best profit for your company. You know, what's most important when we decided to partner with P &G is understanding, like, you know, does this company also support our vision and where we want to grow as founders and as a company?

55:08and, you know, do we have the opportunities to stay on board, to continue seeing the vision through? Was that always important to you? Because I think that one of the most extraordinary things is that you remain the CEO of your company. Still to this day. Still to this day, which is bloody unusual when you go into a big conglomerate like that, because usually there's some lovely Swiss man from P &G ready to be like, thank you, Monique, and we'll see you later, love. But I think that more often than not, when you get acquired, the original founder isn't always either fit for purpose or seen by the acquirer as somebody that they want to stay on and stay in that position.

55:47And so I think it's huge credit to you that that's the position that you're in. And we should talk about that a little bit. But I do love what you said about building the company to be ready for a potential exit. And that does take a different type of discipline and a different type of self-awareness and knowing that you don't know everything and hiring people that have been there before that have more credibility, more experience, you know, will be essentially friendly to that acquirer, right? Because there's so much that people look at in a business. Yes, you have to have a profitable company.

56:19Yes, you have to have a product pipeline that they believe in for the next, you know, five years or whatever it is. But they're also looking at what is the makeup of your company? Who's in there? Are we going to have to come into this thing and completely redo it? Or is there a team that we can rely on to take it into the next few years? Yeah, we had a well-oiled engine for them to come on board. For them, it was also them learning from us. You know, I knew that for me to be a global brand, like I wanted to have people that had a track record and building brands and maintaining their legacy and globalization, Right.

56:54And P &G had the infrastructure that I wanted Miel to have. Right. And what P &G wanted from Miel was the authenticity, the brand equity, the consumers, the innovation and the uniqueness that we brought to our community that wasn't able to be replicated by anyone else. And so it was a match made, you know, in heaven, like it was a great partnership. So, yes, when I came on board and when we sat at the table and negotiated, yes, it was me that had the leverage that was able to negotiate and say, I want to stay on as CEO because I want to see this vision until I'm ready and feel like you guys have it and you can take it and run with it.

57:34And they were OK with that because they saw value in what I was able to bring to the table. There's so much power and leverage and negotiation and sitting at the table and saying like, this is how I want my legacy to be continued. And if you can't follow and abide by this brand and the magic that we've created, then maybe you're not the right partner. And is that what you did in the SAG process? And that's exactly what I did, yeah. So give me an idea of some of those like hard lines for you. What did you really want in that process? And what were you able to negotiate for yourself and the company?

58:04So the first thing was I wanted to negotiate that I stayed on board as CEO. There was no part of you that's like, actually, I just want to like buy a house in Jamaica and leave. I just want to go and lie down. At the end of the day, like that gets boring. You know, I need constant stimulation in my brain. And then the second thing was I negotiated for our formulas to stay the same. This is your famous protection clause that you negotiated. Yes. And then for also our manufacturing to stay the same. So we did not change our manufacturers as well either. And there was no need to us. It wasn't broke.

58:36Like, we don't have to fix anything. And then the third thing was kind of like a mutual negotiation because I said to them, OK, it's great that you want to acquire us, but what can you do to support the community that has got me here to this date? And then they came back to us and said, I see that you guys are really passionate about your community. You have this nonprofit, My Health Cares. We are going to step up and donate$10 million to support your community for brown and Black entrepreneurs. I love that. I mean, I know you and your husband. In addition to the price, obviously. Yeah, in addition to that as well.

59:11And first of all, congratulations, because I think that's so incredible, A, for you to just share with everybody listening. And also the fact that you were able to align it with your broader goals as a family, because I know that you guys are incredibly philanthropic. And it is just amazing that you've been able to keep that as a kind of thread, even after the sale of the business. Let's talk about what happened after the acquisition because it wasn't all glory, right? It's like, so the investment bankers essentially do their job. Yes. The company is acquired by Procter & Gamble. You do remain in as the CEO and I'm assuming you were able to do the deal that you wanted to do.

59:54Yes, absolutely. And then it kind of goes a little pear-shaped as we would say in England. It goes a little sideways. Yeah, I mean, and you know, It's I expected it like I understood. You did? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah. Because I've seen like those that have gone before me and, you know, with them doing great things and the backlash. So I knew that it was coming. Right. And I said, I'm going to try to prepare as much as I can and try to be as transparent as I can with my community, because I do care about my community and I care about educating and helping people understand like the why behind this.

1:00:28And I really wanted people to understand, like, this is not just a win for me, but this is a win for all of us. This is a win for women. This is a win for black women. You know, like less than what is a 1 % of women receive venture capital funding. Like, so for us to have a step in this direction, like this is a win for all women entrepreneurs that are trying to operate and scale their businesses. And another reason why I wanted to partner with P &G was because the people that were around the table making these decisions, they were also people that look like me. They had such a diverse group of people, of C-suite executives that were key decision makers that were advocating for P &G to purchase Miel.

1:01:06Like just as much as we need women entrepreneurs, black women entrepreneurs in this space, we also need people on the other side of the table that look like us that can help tell our story for us when we're not present. And that was something that was so important to me because I said the next time when a Black woman sits down at the table or when my daughter sits at the table, she's going to have a better opportunity because of the doors that I've set down and opened for her to make that path that much easier. So that's why we have to celebrate it. Right. So I tried to do that. But still, you know, people attacked me.

1:01:39The criticism came. And to be honest with you. It came really heavy. It came heavy. Yeah, I mean, I think that this was a broader business story. This then didn't become about, you know, a black female founder that had done this unbelievable exit. It really came a broader story about a community that once supported you that essentially felt like you were turning your back on them. And as a result, really came at you. What do you think that we can do in terms of broadening our community's understanding? And what have you done? Because I understand like, and I don't mean this in a, it's not in a defensive way, but I felt like you were having to defend yourself.

1:02:21And, you know, and it was easy for me to say, I was like, fuck everyone. Like, what is she apologizing for? Well, I wouldn't say I was apologetic about it at all because, you know, again, like this is my conversations with God. And like, this was something that I prayed on. Like I wanted this for me and my family and my community. So I'm going to stand 10 toes down that my decision was a great strategic decision financially and strategically for me to ultimately recognize the potential of the brand and my legacy. So I'm a hundred percent certain in my decision on that. I will say that I had to ignore social media for a while.

1:03:01How long? I would say at least for the first like five days. And even now, like I still don't like read the comments because people still flutter in every now and then. I think what was the most hurtful was when we got a text for saying that our formulas changed and that they were causing, you know, problems with consumers' hair because of the acquisition. And you didn't make any formula changes? We did not make any formula changes. You really, you didn't make any formula changes? Yes. No, we did not make any formula changes. And so that's why I'm like, like, this is coming out of left field. Look, if we would have made formula changes, just like I told you we were acquired, I would have been transparent and told my community that we are changing the formula.

1:03:42Do you feel like it was malicious? Like people were coming out of the woodwork just to have another thing to say to you and it wasn't necessarily the truth of what was happening? I think the person that started that was being malicious. You know, that's just my honest opinion, right? And then people come on. Now, granted, you know, people do have issues with their hair. And, you know, I empathize with that. Like I understand that everyone uses products differently and may have different effects from the products. And I am here to help. Like, I'm not here to like pal on and, you know, add to the problem.

1:04:17Like people have to remember that I created this brand to create a solution for people that look like me that are suffering with hair issues. So why would I pivot my foundation and where I started from? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me. Well, not when it's been going so well. And, right. It's different if things are going really - Can we say that again? I think it's different when things are really going badly. You're like, let me change this. But you're like, I'm on a roll. Like, I just need to keep doing more of what I'm doing. So it feels - Yeah, so I had, like, I did a video. And again, I tried to be very transparent and explain to people, like, our formulas have not changed.

1:04:54We are still the same Miel that people purchased before the acquisition. And I'm not saying that women don't have hair issues or they didn't suffer. But what I am saying is that I am very transparent in our ingredient stories. And I love what I do. I use the products. My family use the products. Like there is nothing that I would ever do to sacrifice the integrity of our ingredients, nor will P &G ever do something like that. Like if anything, they have become more stringent and making sure that we are delivering the best effective products and ingredients. And everything for me has gotten better, not worse.

1:05:31I love that you say that. Look, what I really think came out of that situation, and I give you full credit for it, is that there was a hell of a lot more understanding because of the messaging that you gave, because of the conversations that were happening, even the heated conversations that were happening. So I actually think out of that became a new level of understanding of what it takes to build a business, what it means to raise capital, what it means to have a big acquisition, what happens on the other side. And so I think actually what happened was net positive when you have hindsight. I'd be rather you than me.

1:06:07But I do think that people have a much, much, much more open mind to understanding that that was actually a great thing. And because of you, Monique, there's like literally like a gajillion little girls that are out there and they go, oh my goodness, I could do that. And that's an incredible thing. They're putting me on their vision board and cutting my face off. Oh, cutting your face off. Absolutely. Here's hoping. So we're three years post acquisition now, is that right? Yes. And do you feel like you have a lot to prove when you think about the brand? Do you think that you've still, that you're still trusted and there's still something for you to prove or are you over that at this point.

1:06:44Yeah, no, I think that Myel is still a very trusted brand. I do feel that I'm still a very trusted founder. Because again, people know my character and my integrity, and that's something that you can't fake. No, you can't. So for me, I don't feel that I have to prove anything. All I feel like I have to do is just keep putting in the work and showing up with integrity when it matters most. Yeah. I want to talk to you a little bit about the money because I feel like it's so important. I wonder, first of all, you don't talk about how much money you made. Do you talk, do you give us a number? You don't hear it from my mouth.

1:07:18Well, here's what I heard for the people out on the streets. It's a lot. It's better. And actually, like I, I mean, so the people that I know, they say it was like close to two, not quite two billion, but like in that kind of region. And she's just smiling at me right now. So we're just going to keep going. Let me tell you something I know. I look at you and I'm like, oh my God, she's out here. She's spending, she's scapular, scapular, scapular. Amazing. I wanted to talk to you about your idea around money and how you think about money right now, because you live like a beautiful lifestyle, quite rightly, and as you should.

1:07:53I wonder, has making all this money made you more disciplined around spending money or are you just like comfortable spending bigger? Yeah. My relationship with money is that I respect money. Like I don't worship it, but I respect it. And money has given me freedom and opportunity. And I feel that money only amplifies who you truly are. It just has allowed more doors and more things and more freedom that I can do. And also for me, what I really love the most is that my kids have the freedom and a different lifestyle than I had growing up. And that is the most rewarding thing. It's like, they don't have to like figure out what they have to do right now for a job and a career in their 20s, my 20 year old, she can like really explore and really figure out what she's truly passionate about.

1:08:43And it's because of the hard work that I have done and the lifestyle that I have created for them. No doubt. I mean, the ability to give your kids a different life has to be so high on the list. Do you have an investment strategy once you get all this money in the bank? Yeah, I will tell you the funny thing. My husband and I was talking about this. I didn't realize that actually managing wealth is a full-time job. Oh yeah, do you remember? That was our first step of conversation. Do you remember? We had that conversation. Oh yeah, I was like, girl! Like you really have to sit down and have meetings with your team and be very strategic on like, where are you putting your money at in the market?

1:09:21What investments you're investing in? And like, we're meeting with our team. You know, they would like to meet with us weekly if they had it their way, but you know, we meet with them monthly just to make sure that we're on the right trajectory and that our investments are going in the right direction. It's another job. It is another job. Are you involved in it? Like, are you the type of person that is like, I need to be across there? So I'm involved and, you know, I'll be honest with you. I use AI to help me understand like the language because I mean, I'm not familiar with that. So I always, you know, I ask a lot of questions and I tell my team like to explain this to me, like I'm a five-year-old kindergarten.

1:10:01so I can like understand exactly like where our money is going. Well, there's a mirroring from the early days of your business, right? It's like you don't want to lose contact. You don't want it happening over there. Yes, so we're very close. Yes. With our team. Stay close. Yes, stay close. We've learned our lesson. You learned it. You don't need, no one needs to tell you twice. No, absolutely not. I mean, that's insanity. It is. When you think about your kids now, you're raising like very wealthy children. How are you encouraging and thinking about their relationship with money? Yeah, well, I first told my kids that like, you know, we have worked very hard for you guys to have this lifestyle.

1:10:35But I want you to remember, by all means, this is ours. We work for this and you have to go out and work for your own. My youngest daughter, we came here, we flew here commercial and she has her friends here. So I put her and her friends in an economy just to like teach her a little lesson. Humble, sometimes you got to keep them humble. And then I sat in first class and she's like, you know, I don't want to sit in economy. I said, I work to be in this seat. You still have to work to get to where I'm at. So I want to keep my kids humble. Yeah, you get in the back of that plane and you will be fine.

1:11:07And I mean, of course, I do believe in rewarding them like they they have been rewarded like they fly private jets and, you know, they have a lifestyle. But I always remind them and keep them humble. Like the only reason why you have this is because of the work that we've put in. So in order for you to sustain this, what work are you going to do or what thing are you going to create so you can sustain the lifestyle when you become older? And so my oldest, she has, you know, her own career path that she set out on. She's, you know, an amazing full time content creator and college student. And so to see her like following my footsteps and like she has this like business and she's going to school for marketing.

1:11:48And, you know, because, you know, I am bored and I don't have a lot to do. We started a new brand called Wynn Athletics, a new fitness facility. And so now she's my marketing assistant. So she's assisting with that. So now we're building a whole new family business as well. So I just want them to see, like, you can create something in your mind and actually build it. Well, more than anything, they watched it as kids, right? They saw it. They saw it firsthand. hand. They would have felt the anxiety of when it wasn't working and they would have seen the upsides and they've seen their life change and they knew their lives before.

1:12:24And so I think when you watch your mom and dad get up every day and go to work, that's better than anything you can tell them. You have the first seat of like experience, like one-on-one seeing that. Just before we ignore him completely, because your husband has been a huge part of the success of this brand and you still, he's still the COO and you're the CEO of the company. What's that been like actually building this thing together? Yeah. So I think that working with your husband can be your greatest strength, but also your greatest challenge. And for us, what works for us is respecting each other's roles and communicating, you know, always keeping God first and understanding that even though we may have disagreements, arguments or whatever, that is so minute compared to like the vision and the legacy that we're creating.

1:13:16So it's like, once you focus on like the overall vision, you can quickly come to a resolve after, you know, you like, get it out, get it out, say what you need to say. And like, how do we figure and work this thing out? And I think what's most important is that you have to protect your relationship and your marriage and know that your business is an extension of your relationship, but you too are the foundation. No, I mean, it's so beautiful. Every time I see you, you look so cute and happy together. Yeah, he has to, like, he knows that I'm always right. Well, there you go. That's, you know, happy wife, happy life.

1:13:54The company that you're running today, obviously it's very, very different from where you started. I think you have about 300 people in the business. A lot of people. What do you think about in terms of your leadership style and what's had to change, especially post-acquisition? Has that been a steep learning curve? So it has been a steep learning curve because what I've realized, even with the acquisition, is that, you know, not a lot of people are OK with change. But I think that's the one thing that's inevitable is change. Things are always going to change. And for me, being a leader has become more about clarity and consistency, even under pressure.

1:14:31and being able to show up for my team and still make decisions when things are uncertain or when things look uncertain for my team and still being able to empower them to operate in their gifts and encourage them. Also being okay as a leader that I may have encouraged you, empowered you and have taught you different skill sets and talents from working with Miel and you may take those talents and gifts to another company and that may be a competitor and also being okay with that people may leave when they don't get it and you being okay and not cracking under pressure or not allowing your emotions to distract you.

1:15:08Because when you build your company and you have people like, it's like a family. So you do have some type of emotional connection with these people. And unfortunately, like you can't manage and take ownership of those people. So I just try to empower them while they're under my leadership with the notion of like, I've given you the skills and tools that you need to thrive in any other environment that you go in and not being led by emotions, but being led by facts and being able to make sound decisions, you know, when my mind is clear. You've spoken a little bit about expanding the brand beyond hair care.

1:15:45What does that look like and what's the future? Yeah. So the future of Myel is to be not just a hair care company, but tapping into all aspects of beauty. So from skincare to body care, being like an overall wellness brand that focuses on a holistic approach to beauty. So more exciting. Like we have some really exciting like skincare, body care products that I'm super excited about that we've been working on for the past like two years now. Do you still get as excited as in the beginning? Like what is your part of the business that gets you like, you know, keeps you up at night and makes you excited for your job?

1:16:22Yeah. So I'm like all things marketing and like creative. So I'm still very excited over like innovation. And, you know, I love that P &G has allowed me to still continue to lead that aspect of the business. Do you feel like you have to keep saying to everyone, nothing has changed? I did at one point, but I no longer do because, you know, the thing is like people, people that are set in their ways that are going to misunderstand you, no matter what you say, no matter what you try to do to prove, no matter if you like take them to the lab and see where you source ingredients, they will still say, but it wasn't like that last year or you're missing angry.

1:17:03Like they're, they're still going to say that. So I'm like, I, I'm no longer addressing it. Like that can't be your job. Yeah. Like I have to use my energy in places that really matter. Yeah, you do. What kind What kind of impact do you hope your success has for other founders? I want the little girl in me that was hoping and wishing for someone that looked like me to just give them inspiration and to light a fire inside of them to say, you know what? you know, you have a dream and you can go out there and accomplish your dreams. You can go out there and be a world changer and create something and innovate and do something magnificent that the community and the people that are assigned to your destiny is going to thank you for.

1:17:50I feel like you're no doubt doing that. I hope so. Absolutely you are. What do you still aspire to? I still aspire to be disruptive and to challenge myself to tackle and enter into spaces that may be deemed impossible. And so I aspire to disrupt the fitness industry with our new brand, Win Athletics. Yes, I love that answer. All right, I'm going to take you to some rapid fire. I'm the worst at rapid fire because as everyone knows, I'm so long winded. So we'll see how rapid they are. All right, wrapping fire questions. What is one hair product that you never travel without? My rosemary mint oil.

1:18:32What's something you never feel guilty about spending money on? I never feel guilty about spending money on my kids. Are you a morning person or a night owl? I am definitely a morning person. What time are you up in the morning? I am up at like 6 a.m. Yes, an early one. Yeah. What is a book that changed your life? A book that's changed my life is honestly the Bible. that'll change yeah the book of proverbs a book of wisdom amazing thank you my darling this is heavenly yeah thank you so great if you're loving this podcast be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform while you're there give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend we'll be so grateful aspire with emma greed is presented by I'm your host, Emma Greed.

1:19:51Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Mecole, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website emagreed.me.