Glucose Goddess Turned Sugar Hacks Into an 8-Figure Business (Jessie Inchauspé)

16:48Emma Grede:I learned about sugar. I learned about blood glucose levels and what that meant. I learned about omega-3s, about fish, about meats, about what are carbs. And so he really shaped my early understanding. But at that point, I was 14. I didn't think I would do anything with glucose. I just was sort of remotely interested and my family got a bit healthier. But the passion didn't come from there. The passion really came from the glucose monitor experience when I was in my early 20s.

17:13Jessie Inchauspé:And so for you to go into mathematics and then have this degree in biochemistry, you were obviously naturally very academic and very gifted as a student and you wanted to do well. I'm so interested that you just decided to go in those directions because they're traditionally such male-dominated fields. And I'm interested, like, what you would say to young women now that are exploring that type of career for themselves.

17:37Emma Grede:Listen, I believe there's nothing better than being a female in a scientific or male-dominated field. It's so cool to be one of the only women in that class where you're learning about, you know, algebra. And it's a lot of men. And then there's the three girls sitting together. and you just feel like you have to find your power and you're the underdog. And it's very exciting and very interesting and very motivating. And the reason I went into mathematics, I didn't like math. I just didn't know what to do with my life. And so my stepdad, again, gave me a very good piece of advice. He said, if you don't know what to do, do the hardest thing you can.

18:15Emma Grede:That's gold. Especially for studies. I think this is very applicable because...

18:20Jessie Inchauspé:Because it's almost counterintuitive thinking because I feel like if I hadn't had a clue of what I wanted to do. I'd have leaned into the thing that I was really good at and that would have been easiest for me. Exactly.

18:30Emma Grede:But the problem is, if I had done a degree in, I don't know, history, you know, age 19, discovering a passion for health after breaking my back, I could have never gone into biochemistry. So that math degree kept all of my doors open. And having done that math degree gave me quite a lot of power later on in my career. Because when you're a young woman and you look like I do and you're like cute, you're like, ha ha ha. and you say you have a degree in mathematics, all of a sudden - And your shoes have ears. Yeah. All of a sudden people change how they perceive you. Because I've often been underestimated in my life.

19:04Emma Grede:Often, often, because I'm friendly. I come off as nice and non-threatening, whatever. And so I've been underestimated. Even today, a lot of people think I'm just an influencer. They don't realize what I've built. Which is wild and so insulting given how -

19:18Jessie Inchauspé:But you can't control that. No, you can't. I mean, and listen, there's this other part of you. I swear that I found you through looking at outfits of yours because you're always like, she's in a whole mew mew get up. You've got an amazing shoe. And maybe I was just like looking at the outfit and then kind of tuned in and started listening and saw a graph that drew me in.

19:36Emma Grede:Well, that's exactly what I wanted to accomplish, Emma. Jump down, babe. That's exactly. The reason I wear all these looks is because I believe that what you wear tells a story and draws people in and makes you less threatening. So I want the outfits and the universe to be fun and colorful and friendly. So you come in and then I talk to you about blood sugar levels, something really unsexy and kind of boring, but here you are because I was wearing a fun outfit and now you're watching my video and I can teach you how to feel better. Yeah. I mean,

20:04Jessie Inchauspé:that a hundred percent worked for me. Amazing. Definitely worked to me, but I feel like it's really interesting because you've spoken about this publicly that you are a biochemist and you're not an influencer. Why is that so important to you to be so forthright about that?

20:18Emma Grede:Because it's the truth. I don't influence by sharing my personal life. I am not influencing. I'm sharing science. That's what I'm here for. For me, influencer is more personal. I think when I'm a biochemist, I'm a teacher. You know, it's not about me. It's about the content. I'm teaching. I'm offering interesting, helpful information. I'm not influencing by sharing my personal life. It's very different to me. It's very different. I agree with you. It's education.

20:48Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah. Every time I watch you, I feel like I learned something. And this through line of everything that you've done in your career is, you know, your books are so unbelievably brilliant because they break down these really complicated subjects in ways that are not just teachable, but it's like you can take that stuff into your life. And I wonder when you did that first book, like what was your aim right then? Like what were you trying to do?

21:16Emma Grede:I think I have a lot of empathy for people going through difficulty with their health. And I really feel like I can connect and I understand what people need and how to meet them where they are. So what I was trying to do is I was trying to make a book that was going to become a solution for people, a guide. I understand who this person is that I'm talking to that I'm writing for I really deeply do I think maybe because I struggled so much and I know what it feels like when you're just just feels like everything is so dark it's so dark you're lost you don't know where to go and those are the people that I make my content for and when I was writing my book I was trying to make it both informative but also full of heart and love and I put a lot of stories and they're my personal anecdotes.

22:02Emma Grede:And I, I try to, you know, not use mechanics such as guilt or fear mongering. And I, I just, I wanted to make something that felt really cozy and helpful, like a warm blanket, helping you get from zero to one with your health.

22:17Jessie Inchauspé:So talk to me about that first moment when you started to feel like what I'm doing is working, you've got the book deal, you write this book, it actually does become a bestseller. and as somebody that has, you know, the kind of education that you do, you've then got this platform that's starting to become a thing and you're getting noticed. You've got the book that's starting to blow up. Did you have a plan at that point? Did you, is this the point that you went, all right, I'm going to start to build something?

22:45Emma Grede:No plan. Intuition only. I just felt like, okay, it's too much for me to do all the research I'm doing, plus all the posts, plus try to manage the interviews coming in. So I just needed to hire one person. And I was like, okay, I have this much money in my bank account. And when I signed my books, I didn't take the money personally. I thought I'm going to form an LLC because let's see what happens. So the book advances went to the LLC. I hired one person. It was just one step after another. And people kept trying to give me advice, you know, investors and people with big companies do this, do that.

23:17Emma Grede:Do you really want to be a CEO? It's not a good idea. Or this is not a business, blah, blah. I just quieted everything and did what my heart and my intuition told me to do. What did you have to learn about money that science didn't prepare you for? Oof. That money is energy. When I got the book Advance, I was getting stored energy. And it was my responsibility to decide how I was going to spend that energy. And I wanted to keep going further. Because even though I didn't have a plan for a business, I wanted this message to become so well known that everybody knew about the glucose hacks. The money was energy.

23:53Emma Grede:And I was trying to really, really use it as sporadically and smartly as possible. Again, it's a very different situation. If you raise money, you can go faster, bigger. I had to make every decision very carefully. And we're talking, you know, I was dealing with like tens of thousands of dollars, not millions of dollars. So every decision, every person, I learned everything just by doing it and by trying and by failing every single day. And even today, you know, when I launched my first product, Anti-Spike, my supplement, that was really intuition. I felt like people wanted something that was going to help them with their glucose spikes, but I didn't have a business plan.

24:29Emma Grede:So I just looked at the best science and I put the best molecules together and I made a really expensive product with really bad margins, but really bad margins. And everybody in the supplement industry was like, wait, what did you do? I was like, oh yeah, I put a reducose and naryamine the same product, they're like, that's way too expensive. Why would you do that? I said, well, because it's the best. They're like, yeah, but it's not a good business. I don't care. I don't care. I'm making the best product.

24:55Jessie Inchauspé:So I just went for it. Is there, is there a belief system there? Because I, I always believe like you make a great product, the customer is going to come, like you can figure the things out afterwards.

25:06Emma Grede:Yes, I believe that as well. Yeah. I believe that as well. I'm not cynical. I think that people want the best products and no shortcuts will ever pay off. So if I had taken shortcuts, maybe the business would be bigger today, but I'm proud of every single thing that I've made. And I followed my intuition for ultra high quality decisions at every turn. Ultra high quality.

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26:49Jessie Inchauspé:That's a really great way to frame everything that you do, because it comes across, right? It comes across in like the content, the captions, the way that you write the books, the way that you put yourself together, the way that you've framed this new product. It's like, I'm going to make an ultra high quality decision at every turn. And that's going to pay dividends. I'm obsessive. I want to make perfect stuff because I believe in them. It's so interesting because I feel like great founders are always a little bit obsessive. They're as obsessed with the product as they are, with the packaging as they are, with the overall output and the messaging.

27:27Jessie Inchauspé:And you have to. I think you have to.

27:30Emma Grede:Every day as a founder is a punch in the gut. So if you're going to keep going, you have to be obsessed. You have to keep getting back up, but it's not centered. The text is not centered. That's how I feel most days. But you have to. And I think that's driven me. And I had opportunities to quit every turn. But this sort of spiritual thing, I kept coming back to it. I felt like I was on a mission. Talk to me about those opportunities to quit,

27:52Jessie Inchauspé:because I think that what we see is this like ascent, right? That you've kind of gone on a tear and you've had this like tremendous acceleration in this part of your life and career. What have been some of the setbacks? What are the things that behind the scenes we wouldn't have seen or heard about?

28:11Emma Grede:Well, because I don't have a structure, I didn't have a structure in place of a big company and investors and a roadmap and quarterly results. My business was just being fueled by my energy and my motivation. So the weeks where I didn't feel very motivated because everybody on the internet was trying to take me down, I felt like the business was slowing down. So I've always had this push and pull every single day, every single week. I don't have a big support system in terms of the company. It's just me driving it with my passion. So the opportunities to quit, I mean, man, just being on social media, you want to quit every single day.

28:49Emma Grede:It's rough.

28:50Jessie Inchauspé:How have you learned to deal with the trolls, the haters, the nonstop opinions? right in your shit, right in your comment feed?

28:58Emma Grede:At the beginning, I was taking a lot of good criticism and feedback because I didn't really understand what I was doing. Like I needed feedback from my users. Again, people were like, I hate it when you say this. Don't say this. You know, if you're talking about somebody who's diabetic, don't say she's diabetic. Say she has diabetes. I had to learn all these things that I didn't know. I didn't know a lot of stuff. Or type 1 diabetics, you know, people with type 1 diabetes saying, oh, wearing this glucose monitor is offensive. Like, don't do that. this is our glucose monitor. It's not cool. We don't feel good about it.

29:27Emma Grede:I had to learn a lot. And the criticism taught me a lot. But today I've heard it all. So it doesn't really touch me anymore.

29:34Jessie Inchauspé:Is there any part of you that shied away from some, because I feel like you've been out there and you've openly criticized oatmeal, granola, drugs like Ozempic as an example. Have you ever been nervous when it comes to like challenging at least big food companies and big farmer.

29:51Emma Grede:Yeah, for sure. I mean, those are huge mammoths. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. With a lot of money, with way more money than I will ever have. And big teams of lawyers. Yeah. But this is what I have to do. Like if I didn't want to make anybody upset or ruffle any feathers, I would not be able to do what I do. My entire job is telling you they're manipulating you with the marketing. This food is not as healthy as you think. This drug is not solving the issue. it's masking the symptom. I have to go up against it. So yeah, of course it's a little bit scary, but you got to go. It's war, baby.

30:27Jessie Inchauspé:It's war. But I love that that's your attitude because I speak to so many female founders and it can be very intimidating when you cross a line knowing it or not. And there's, you know, a legal letter that lands on your door or something that kind of threatens you. How have you dealt with those things? Because I know they've kind of hit you. I cry.

30:48Emma Grede:Get a good crying, you know? I love a good cry. I love a good cry. I love a good cry.

30:54Jessie Inchauspé:I'll cry sometimes when I'm not sad. You know, just to like... Just for fun. Yeah, just to cry. Not in the camera or anything. I hate that shit. But it's like, I love a cry.

31:05Emma Grede:So healthy. And then I have to find my center again and remember what I'm doing and remember the mission and what I'm here for because those things can knock me off course so hard. And then you're like, wait, why am I doing this? Like, is everything I'm doing wrong? And I just have to keep coming back to myself. And over the years, the muscle has grown stronger. So now I can come back much faster. I don't have a secret like magic solution for this. It's tough.

31:30Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah, but isn't that just the point that I think so many people want to understand? Like, how do you get more resilient? Well, you get more resilient.

31:36Emma Grede:You have to do it. You have to do it. Okay, story, story time. First time I gave a public speech was at 23andMe. I was an intern. I had just joined. Two months into the internship, I have to present in front of four people. Four people. I prepare my presentation and I get into the room and I turn the slide on and there's four colleagues of mine from my team. And I just totally black out. I could not get a word out. I'm like, um, um, um, um. And my other colleague had to take over my presentation. I just collapsed. Panic attack. Totally. In front of four people. Today, you can put me in front of 100 ,000 people.

32:16Emma Grede:I'm not scared. Why? Because I kept going back to that horrible thing. It's like push-ups, Emma. Oh, yeah. The only way to get better at push-ups is to do the push-ups. Same thing. I wanted to get better. It was so hard. But I think about maybe four years in, then I wasn't scared anymore. But it took four years of a lot of public speaking and learning the presentation by heart. Every sentence. This is where my academic brain worked. And was helpful. I learned my presentations word for word. And one hour presentation. Word for word. The whole thing. Memorize. Everything. Because I was so terrified of going in front of these people and talking about glucose.

32:52Emma Grede:I learned everything. Every single word. And I rehearsed it in my flats. That is so unbelievably impressive. And I would film myself. Everything. Because that was the only way to get through the anxiety and the nerves. And today I don't have to do that anymore. But you don't have any anxiety or nerves anymore. Nothing. I love it now. I love it. I'm like giving a big audience. She's like, give me that audience. And you know, I get on stage and I'm like, hey guys, hey, how's it going? You know, hey. She's like, pew, pew. Exactly.

33:16Jessie Inchauspé:But at the beginning, I was faking it. Faking it. I'm a sweater. So I will, I don't ever look like I'm a sweater. I mean, I'm always shiny, but it's like, I will sweat through that entire clothing outfit. And everyone come off the stage and people are like, you, that was great. And I'm like, oh my God, like get me a towel. Like, I'm just like, but are you scared? No. Not at all. Did you just sweat? No, I just, that's just what, that's my reaction. I just like sweat out. But it's like, again, I could go in front of a huge audience, but it certainly wasn't always like that. I just practiced and practiced and practiced.

33:51Jessie Inchauspé:And unlike you, sadly, I don't have that academic brain, but I'm really good at freestyling it. So I would just have like the one lines of like each paragraph and I go there and then I can just like figure the rest out. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I only need the headlines. I'm like a headline. I have the bullets and I can do the 20 bullets and then I'll just like fill in the gaps. Well, I wish I could do that.

34:15Emma Grede:That would have saved me a lot of violence. No, your way is better because, you know, every now and again you'd be like off with the birds. But it's violent.

34:23Jessie Inchauspé:It's a violent process to get better at stuff. First of all, I love the way you frame things. It's violent. It's violent. It's violent against yourself. Yes. Like you have to go against everything that's natural to you. You have to face the fear and you have to sweat your way through it in my case. But it is, it's violent. You have to kind of enjoy the process a little bit. Yes. And I feel like, I mean, I've spoken about this so much, but it's like, I look for the fear now because I know once I get on the other side of the things that really scare me, there's such good stuff there. And it's really, really hard.

34:58Jessie Inchauspé:But then when you're on the other side, you're like, I did it. I just took me three years, but I did it. I want to talk about hacks, but there's these hacks, like there's such a huge buzzword and you have these glucose hacks that you've kind of got and you've owned. I want to really understand like, why was it important for you to frame them that way? Because I think I'm very good at

35:21Emma Grede:marketing. Yeah, because it's really central to your work, right? And marketing is not a dirty word here. Marketing is how do you turn something into something people want and people understand. So I had all this science. I had these hundreds of scientific papers. And I felt like, how do I make this into something that people are going to understand and are going to connect with? So it was the hacks. But they didn't just drop out of thin air. It was actually when I was writing my first book that I thought about this concept of turning all this data I had amassed into these hacks. And I thought 10 is a great number.

35:52Emma Grede:So I put together 10 hacks. And it just worked out. It was amazing. I have a brain that understands how people change their behavior and how I can get through and cut through the noise and give them tools they can actually use and remember. So the hacks are the core of my work. And throughout all of my career, it's always been about hacks. Easy stuff you can remember because I'm obsessed with behavior change. And it really shows. I love it.

36:16Jessie Inchauspé:It really shows. I love it. What do you think are the top hacks that work for you in your life right now?

36:22Emma Grede:having a savory breakfast, never having anything sweet first thing in the morning. Oh, they don't like that in America. No. This is the most difficult hack, Emma. This is the hardest hack with the biggest payoff. It's the hardest hack with the biggest payoff.

36:40Jessie Inchauspé:Yes. So when we talk sweet, all right, let's just like talk about sweet a little bit. You know, because fruit is sweet. Fruit is okay. Is that a no two?

36:49Emma Grede:Fruit is okay. Okay. It's okay. as a side dish. Not optimal. It's okay. For taste, for enjoyment, for pleasure. Your savory breakfast needs to be built around protein. You need to start the breakfast with protein. Maybe it's eggs, maybe it's a Greek yogurt, maybe it's protein powder, maybe it's nuts, maybe it's leftover salmon from last night. Protein. If you want... Don't make me have dinner for breakfast. Yes, Emma. Do you want a sharp brain? Yes. Do you want to feel like eagle-focused energy all day? Absolutely. Then you got to have a savory breakfast, girl. And then if you want something sweet, have it at the end of the breakfast.

37:26Emma Grede:Okay. Just try it because the payoff for your mental clarity is so humongous. It's like walking through a mirror and going through another world. It is literally a different world. Sweet breakfast or savory breakfast. Why? Because the sweet breakfast creates a big glucose spike in your body. That leads to inflammation. That can lead to brain fog. And it kickstarts a rollercoaster of crashes all day and you spike and two hours later you crash as your blood sugar comes down and you're tired and you want more sugar and you're exhausted and the brain fog and the fatigue and then you go back up with more sweets and back down.

38:03Emma Grede:I think single-handedly having a savory breakfast has helped me with my career more than any advice I ever got. Wow. 100%. All right, what's the second most important thing that we need to know? The second one, oh, that's tough because they're all competing. Okay. I would say having a veggie starter before dinner. So typically people have dinner and dinner is going to be the biggest meal of the day. That's the meal where you're coming home and you have more time and you're eating a lot. Now, the problem is if you have a big spike at dinner, your deep sleep during the night is going to be messed up.

38:40Emma Grede:So you're going to wake up and feel less rested. So how do you counteract this? You start your dinner with a veggie starter, meaning a plate of vegetables. It can be anything. Broccoli, it can be salad, it can be tomatoes, carrots, whatever your favorite vegetable is. You can have it raw, cooked, boiled, baked, anything you like. Grilled. The vegetables contain fiber. And if you have fiber at the beginning of your dinner, it's going to create this protective mesh in your intestine. Fibers are a superwoman. We The beginning of your meal creates this mesh. Whatever you eat afterwards will go more slowly into your digestive system and into your bloodstream.

39:19Jessie Inchauspé:So it's not that you're trying to trick me into eating less of whatever the rest is on my plate. No. It's about this seal.

39:24Emma Grede:I want you to eat more. I want you to eat more with the protective fiber in place.

39:30Jessie Inchauspé:Oh, Lord. All right. So I'm going to have a savory breakfast. I'm then going to eat veggies before my dinner. What's the other thing? Because I want like the boss girl diet. You know, I want the one that's going to give me maximum energy. That's not going to let me crash. That's going to keep my brain like on fire. You know, it's like, that's the diet that I want.

39:50Emma Grede:Then in that case, you're going to be snacking throughout the day probably.

39:54Jessie Inchauspé:Oh, good. I do. Yeah. But I'm a really good snacker. Okay. So here's my thing. I love nuts. Yes. Perfect. Okay. So up there. It's perfect. I'm an almond girl. Perfect. 10 out of 10. Thank you very much. Perfect. The perfect snack. And I do bone broth. Yeah. Very good. I don't really have a sweet tooth, except I do like a very, very good chocolate. So for that to happen on a weekday, I have to be extremely pissed off. I'm very regimented with my diet. And I just don't really leave much choice there. Because my way of controlling things is to not have choices. I just eat what I'm given. And it works for you.

40:35Jessie Inchauspé:And you're a boss girl. Well, you know, we try to be. But I'm like, you know, I like a sandwich as much as the next person. And so if I'm given the choice, I'm going to say, I want a sandwich. If somebody just is like, this is what your lunch is today. And it just is in front of me. It's like, I'm going to eat the protein and veggies.

40:53Emma Grede:I think one tip that I would give is that throughout the day, you might be tempted for sugar, for chocolate, for a donut, for those little dried mango stuff we had on the table before. Then I was like, no, no, no. Anything sweet throughout the day. It can sort of help you go through work because you feel like it gives you a little energy boost to eat something sweet. Actually, the sweetness is giving you dopamine, which is the pleasure molecule in your brain. But it's not giving you energy because it's probably creating a spike, which then leads to a crash. So what do you do? You do what's called put clothing on your carbs.

41:28Emma Grede:So anytime you eat carbs, example donut, example chocolate, you put some clothing on that. So almonds are an excellent piece of clothing to put on your carbs because they contain protein and fat. And so as they mix with the sugar in your stomach, they're going to slow down the glucose spike of the sugar. So you can still have the donut, the chocolate you like. If you add some clothing to it, it's going to affect your brain, your energy, your performance and your cravings less.

41:53Jessie Inchauspé:So this is what I love about your advice, because I feel like it is realistic. I'm not never going to have a donut. A donut is delicious, but there's a way to have a donut.

42:02Emma Grede:It's all about the way to have the stuff that you love with less impact on your body. And there's so much we can do. A donut first thing in the morning for breakfast is 100 % different from the donut you have after your dinner where you had a veggie starter. Completely different impact on your body. So you're happy for me to have the donut later?

42:19Jessie Inchauspé:Yes. That feels so counterintuitive. That feels like a donut at night is just going to like sit there and, you know, not do the right thing for me.

42:27Emma Grede:If you have a veggie starter before that dinner, you're going to have a smaller glucose pack from the donuts. If you have the donut for breakfast on an empty stomach, first thing, you're kicking off an entire day of glucose rollercoaster. And then you feel like crap. And so you can't do the stuff that you want to do because you feel horrible in your own body.

42:43Jessie Inchauspé:So what do you do if you don't want to walk around with a glucose monitor? Because I look at those, you know, people with the glucose monitor. Those people with the glucose monitor. That's what I think. I'm like, oh, I'm not dating you. I'm out of the dating game, thankfully. But, you know, to me, I'm like, oh, like, really? Are we doing that? I think we are. Always. At least for two weeks. She's like, yes, I think you are. We are. Do it for two weeks. Once. Why?

43:09Emma Grede:Because you're like, do it for two weeks and learn about yourself. Exactly. Okay. You don't have to wear it all the time. Okay? Just do it once. Learn about yourself. See if your glucose levels are steady. See what spikes you, what doesn't. And then you're good. If you don't want to wear one at all, intuit into your own body. When do you feel tired? When do you have cravings? These are the two main signs you're having a glucose crash after a big spike, okay? It's the fatigue and the cravings. Keep a little diary or just feel into it. And I promise you, if you switch from a sweet breakfast to a savory breakfast, those things will be much, much, much better instantly.

43:43Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah, I mean, listen, I've really have become obsessed with my health over the last few years. There's something about moving to LA that'll do that to an English girl. But I also think about my health as an investment. when you have four kids and you have businesses, like there is no choice for me. And the reason that I started to follow you and I started to become so interested in this is because I know the difference. Like I feel it so intrinsically in my skin and the energy levels, but I feel like we're all looking for a clear out of the information. And I think what I love about what you do is that it's really understandable and it's really science-based, but there's no clutter there because there's so much information out there.

44:27Jessie Inchauspé:And what I want are like, as you say, it's like the 10 things that I need to do and the things that are realistic.

44:33Emma Grede:And they work for everybody and they're not a diet. I see the hacks as like little fairy godmothers that you have in your pocket that you use whenever you can, whenever you want. You can't fail at the glucose hacks. It's about using them as much as possible whenever they call you whenever they're easy to do. And even if just one time this week, you think about, okay, I'm going to put clothing on those carbs. Even just one time, that's better than doing it zero times. Yeah. You can't fail. You see what I mean? You can't fail. These are just principles like brush your teeth and wear sunscreen. If you don't brush your teeth one night, you're not going to wake up the next morning and be like, oh damn, I forgot to brush my teeth last night.

45:10Emma Grede:I can never brush my teeth again. I failed at brushing my teeth. No, but just brush your teeth that day. Same thing with the hacks.

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47:55Jessie Inchauspé:I've heard you say that people discover their true self. Like once the symptoms start to subside, like what did you discover? What do you, what do you have that, you know, can lead people into thinking that this is the way forward in their lives?

48:11Emma Grede:I discovered more resilience because my brain felt weak. I was struggling with mental health, with mood swings. I felt fragile. I felt fragile in my body and in my brain. And so I wasn't taking many risks. I wasn't doing things that scared me because I just didn't have the resources because I was concerned that I was going to feel anxious or depressed or I had this very intense mental health condition called depersonalization, which is when you feel like a stranger in your own body. It's horrible. What did that stem from? My back accident, I think. It started developing about six months after the accident.

48:54Emma Grede:And when I look back, I think it was probably some sort of PTSD from being scared of dying and not having the tools to process the fear. Yeah. And so I would feel like a stranger in my own body. It was horrible. It was just so scary. And so my brain was broken. And the glucose spikes were making it worse. And it took me almost a decade to figure it out. And so when I studied my blood sugar, then I got a bit of resilience back and I could start building my health back up. It was not all about glucose. Glucose was the first step. It gave me a little bit of strength. that I needed to then go after the stuff I wanted to do.

49:31Emma Grede:So what I tell people is, if you could feel better than you currently do, then try the glucose hacks. Because most of us have glucose spikes and we don't know it. And the symptoms we feel on a daily basis, like maybe it's acne, maybe it's PCOS, maybe it's fatigue, maybe it's feeling addicted to sugar. These are all messages from your body. Symptoms are not something to suppress. Symptoms are something to look into. There are messages your body speaking to you. And often your body's like, can you please start with keeping your blood sugar levels steady? Because this is not helping.

50:02Jessie Inchauspé:I've heard you speak a lot about the links between fertility and glucose and your glucose levels. Is there, I mean, I'm assuming because it's you, there's a lot of science behind that.

50:12Emma Grede:Yeah, absolutely. So one of the most common reasons for infertility today in females is polycystic ovary syndrome, PCOS. And in many cases, PCOS is actually a symptom of having high glucose levels in your body. Why? Is it really? Yeah. Because high glucose increases this hormone called insulin in the body. And insulin is there just trying to manage glucose levels and get those glucose levels back down. But they also impact female hormones. And they increase testosterone in a female body. And so PCOS is often a consequence of having too much testosterone because of too much insulin, because of too many glucose spikes.

50:54So that's why so many women who use my glucose hacks, all of a sudden their insulin comes down, their testosterone comes back to normal and they ovulate again.

51:07Emma Grede:That's insane. Yeah.

51:08Jessie Inchauspé:That's so crazy.

51:09Emma Grede:I had no idea. I mean, is that like a widely known thing? I think it's getting more widely known. And scientists believe that about 70 % of PCOS cases are due to this glucose, insulin, testosterone.

51:23Jessie Inchauspé:It's like an amalgamation of symptoms, right? It's like, it's not a thing, like a disease. It's like a lot of different things that play out. Yes. And we diagnose it as such. And in 70 % of the cases, PCOS also is happening with high insulin levels and is due to that.

51:42Emma Grede:So PCOS is, as you said, it's an umbrella term for symptoms that all stem from a hormonal imbalance. Yes. And again, in 70 % of cases, that hormonal imbalance is linked to high insulin. So you got to get the insulin down so the hormones get back into their normal ranges. And to get the insulin levels down, you get the glucose down. So you got to understand the few steps. So it's not super easy because sometimes you might know about the insulin. And so you might take a medication to get insulin down, but you're not fixing the root cause. Or for example, you might go on the birth control pill to manage PCOS, but the pill is not fixing the issue.

52:16Emma Grede:It's sort of masking the symptoms for a little while. And then you get off the pill and you want to have a baby, but you're not ovulating anymore. And so you realize, oh, that pill didn't fix anything. No, so you've actually got to go down and fix this root cause. And listen, this is not always the case that fixing glucose fixes PCOS, but in many, many cases, in the majority of cases, it does. That is crazy.

52:38Jessie Inchauspé:I mean, you've just had your own little baby. Yeah. Eight months old, a little boy. So sweet. I think for so many of us, having a baby is a time in our life where everything changes. Your eating habits, the time that you have, how much you focus on yourself. What was the experience like for you and what kind of came out of it in terms of you having this new health experience and life on the other side of having a baby? I can't believe I had a baby. I'm like, what? What just happened?

53:11Emma Grede:I still feel like that 12 years after the first one.

53:14Jessie Inchauspé:I'm like, are you guys mine?

53:17Emma Grede:I mean, I think I'm still in process with it. It's hard to say. I found it.

53:22Jessie Inchauspé:First of all, eight months in is basically a newborn. Basically. When my kid was five, I was saying, I just had a baby. Like it's, yeah, eight months is like a newborn child.

53:31Emma Grede:Yes. I found it to be much harder than I thought it was going to be. I thought writing a book was hard. But this just changed everything. And it's just so much love and so much focus. And now my heart lives outside my body in him. That's how it feels. And I've also had to manage my company and finish writing my book, Postpartum, which was hardcore. I don't know. It's focused me a lot. It's focused me. I've had so much time before. I didn't realize how much time I had. I was like, what was I doing from like 6 p.m. to 11 p.m. every night? Like, what? I was just chilling. What are you talking about?

54:09Like, what are you talking about?

54:11Emma Grede:So it's made me much more focused and it's made me happier also. And I always had before, I think this sort of 10 % of my emotional state at all times, which was a kind of 10 % of maybe longing or a little bit sad. And I'm French, you know, melancholic. Like, oh, should I do something different? Like, is my life not great? Blah, blah, blah. And that's just gone. Yeah, searching, searching. And I feel like that's gone. I don't have that sort of mild chronic depression anymore. Because I have purpose, you know? And it's not the same thing as purpose with a company because the purpose of the company he comes and goes every day.

54:50Emma Grede:And again, it's hard with him. It's just, it's so clear. It's clarified everything. It's made everything much harder, but everything's so much clearer.

54:57Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah. And also I feel like there's something to be said of like, you know, you have a mission and a purpose for your company, but now there's like a reason to be doing all of that stuff. It like somehow crystallizes everything. How has it changed for you? Because obviously you are running a company with a lot of different pieces and verticals to it. How have you been able to you know, come into mothering and still be this entrepreneurial? What does that look like for you?

55:24Emma Grede:I just do it. I don't know. I don't have a magic solution. It's just hard. I just work more, longer hours. I'm more efficient. I delegate more. I do more on my phone. I'm better at multitasking. And I thought motherhood might make me a bit softer in terms of my business. I thought maybe it's going to slow me down. And it hasn't. It's made me more hungry. I don't know why. I can't explain it. I just realized I don't have much time. Yeah. And I want to do a lot of stuff. And I have a lot of people to serve. So I just got to be better, more laser focused. I make decisions faster. I'm rearranging my team much quicker than I would have in the past.

56:06Emma Grede:You know, I don't let things linger for more than a couple of days. I'm like, I got to change this. I don't have time. I don't have time.

56:11Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah. Everything feels so much more finite when you have kids, right? Yes. You're like, these 45 minutes better be used wisely. Exactly.

56:20Emma Grede:These 12 minutes before he wakes up from the nap, you betcha I'm going to do this. Yeah. And I think I'm more efficient today. And I think I'm actually delivering more today than I did before I was a mom. Isn't that incredible? It's incredible.

56:33Jessie Inchauspé:It's absolutely incredible. Do you feel the same? A million percent. I always talk about this moment. The first child I had, I remember sitting in the hospital bed and feeling this surge of like, I've got to get back to the office. You know, it's like, I've got to get back to work because somehow there was a reason for doing all the things that was beyond it just being about me. And I also think it's such an incredible example for your kid to see you so, as they get older, so passionate about something and to care so much about something. I mean, that's like, for me, all it boils down to, I don't really like what my kids do, you know, and what they become.

57:07Jessie Inchauspé:I don't care, but I want them to care about something as much as I care about what I do. And that's all that I can hope for them, you know, which is the best thing in the world. And they're seeing it. I mean, they're watching you. So talk to me about the product that you've just launched, because I feel like the product kind of came out of like one of your big, probably most famous hacks, right? Absolutely.

57:29Emma Grede:So one of the most famous hacks was have vinegar before eating something sweet. Because vinegar contains an incredible molecule called acetic acid. We love her, which slows down digestion just a little bit. And as a result, when you eat carbs, they arrive more slowly into your bloodstream. They turn to glucose more slowly. But people kept telling me, vinegar is disgusting. I need to drink vinegar and water? What are you talking about? It's gross. I was like, oh, no, it's okay. You'll get used to it. And people kept saying, can I take like a supplement instead? And there was nothing that really was a good alternative.

58:08Emma Grede:Like a vinegar supplement was not delivering the same molecules as the vinegar itself, not the same quantity and quality. So I got into research. I looked for two years through all the scientific studies, and I found these incredible molecules, plant molecules that I had never heard about before, mulberry leaf being the main one, and then a molecule that comes from lemons. And I called up the suppliers and I was like, you have incredible clinical trials showing that these molecules reduce glucose spikes because they interact with the enzymes in your belly. And I was like, I want to put them in a product.

58:37Emma Grede:and give it to people and call it anti-spike. And so I just did it. I knew nothing about the supplement world. I didn't partner with a company. I was just going to say. I want to be very clear here. I built the whole thing myself. All internally. Manufacturing, logistics, sourcing, everything. Wow, you are a crazy lady. I love you. I'm a crazy lady.

58:58Jessie Inchauspé:Because I'm sure you'd had offers on offers on offers. Like, put your name on this product. We're developing something. You can take some equity. I got an offer.

59:05Emma Grede:And you decide to do it from scratch. Six months before I launched Anti-Spike, I got an offer for$300 ,000 to put my name on a supplement and just sell it as my own. And I didn't take that. Didn't fancy that? No. I felt like if I did that, that would be the last thing I ever did. Because it would just collapse everything. I would not believe in what I was doing anymore. I would just sell out. And I never wanted to do that. So I built it all internally. And then I told my team, oh, and by the way, we're going to launch in the US, Canada, all of Europe at the same time. Did you go out and raise money?

59:36Emma Grede:Nope. all bootstrapped. So I took all the money we had in the bank to buy the inventory for anti-spike. And I took a bet. I had no, I had no market research. I had no idea how much people were willing to pay for it. It was all intuition. I just did. I was like, it's going to cost$59. Like literally that's what I did. No, you did not. I promise. And I had no understanding of how this supplement world worked at all. I was like, okay, well, you know, the raw materials are very expensive, but if I sold it for$59, like I can make this much money on each bottle. That makes sense. and I'm going to launch in the world because my entire community is all across the world.

1:00:09Emma Grede:And so it was me and my little mighty team of four people and we just took it on. Really? Yeah. How is it doing? It's doing great. It's doing great. That's crazy. Because it's the best product on the market for glucose spikes.

1:00:23Jessie Inchauspé:Let's talk about this a bit because I love this idea that like, you've got this fantastic business because it's also like a cost of entry, right? Because you have a reputation, you sell a lot of books. So it's not like you're just coming at this and being like, oh, let me just like figure it out because it might not touch anything else. This is core to the principles of things that you talk about. I buy something from you, it needs to work. It needs to also not impede on the rest of the businesses. So you must have felt so much conviction, but like taking all your money and going, okay, I'm just going to go.

1:00:56Jessie Inchauspé:That's like, that's crazy.

1:00:59Emma Grede:I know. And I listened, I just did it. I just felt like it was the right thing to do. and I should have and you did the right thing to do like when you look at it when did you launch? We launched two and a half years ago two and a half years ago and we had all these problems because the production was delayed and so I was doing pre-orders and I told people it's ready in a month actually it was ready in four months and it was just so stressful it was just awful awful awful and now so in terms of my business so the books are a big source of revenue the supplement as well I also do speaking but not so much it's not core I'm not like a speaker I do this like three four times a year and I'm launching another product.

1:01:34Emma Grede:I'm launching what I believe to be the best protein powder in the entire universe. And how are you thinking about ownership of these things, Jessie? What does this look like for you?

1:01:42Jessie Inchauspé:What do you mean? Like, do you own it? Do I own one? Like the brand and the like Glucose Goddess is yours, the product is yours, or do you take investment and you take partners?

1:01:51Emma Grede:I have no investments, no partners. I've bootstrapped everything from that first$60 ,000 advance in the first book. Never took an investor.

1:01:59Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah. That's so wonderful. Thank you. Do you see a time, and this is very dependent on your vision, do you see a time where you're like, there's a time for investment and it just isn't now? Or what's the plan?

1:02:10Emma Grede:Yes, probably. Probably if I do something with more CapEx, I don't know. Like, you know, I could open maybe a restaurant chain or something like that. And I would not just have enough cash to do it myself. So in that case, maybe. But I love my freedom. And you know, at the beginning, I was telling you, people were like, raise money, a million dollars, and do a tech company. And every time I went to VC to be like, I have this idea for glucose spikes. I have no idea what I'm building, but do you want to invest? They were like, yeah, we'll take 20%. And I just felt in my body the constriction. You're going to own 20 % of this, but it's mine.

1:02:40Emma Grede:I don't want to give it away because it's not just a business. It's my life. It's my purpose. So I'm so glad that I was able to stay free. I wanted that freedom. And today we don't even have offices. We're all remote. I don't have meetings. I hate meetings. We have one weekly meeting. That's it. And then I just call people and I'm on WhatsApp all day. I do not want meetings. I do not want anybody taking any freedom from me. And that's so important. So that's one of my core values, freedom. So I don't know if I would want investors. Maybe I would if it doesn't feel like I'm giving my freedom away.

1:03:14Emma Grede:So maybe the right partner.

1:03:15Jessie Inchauspé:I think that you have such unbelievable clarity around what you're optimizing for. At the end of the day, if you're optimizing for freedom, then you're building the absolute right structure for you to have the ultimate amount of freedom.

1:03:28Emma Grede:But I think one day it'll make sense. Like if I keep going and if I really keep going to my ultimate vision, I think I will need an investment at some point. Well, when your freedom starts to get restricted.

1:03:39Jessie Inchauspé:Yes, exactly. When your business takes over and you're like, I'm feeling so free anymore. Exactly. So I might be close to that point. Yeah, we'll see. Listen, and when it comes, it comes. But I think that what's so impressive about you is that you have core principles. You're like, I am optimizing for this thing. this is what's important to me right now. In the beginning, that was about democratizing this message and this information that you had. And now it's about being able to do things on your own term as a mother. Make the best things. Yeah. And that is so clear. It's like this quality, the freedom, being able to, you know, take what it is that you've learned and gift it to the world.

1:04:18Jessie Inchauspé:And I feel like you're doing all of those things on your own terms. Who is, who's helping you? Who advises you? Is there anyone that you've been able to lean on? And I've heard you say a couple of times in this conversation, you know, people have tried to give you money or tried to come into your business. Is there anyone that you rely on?

1:04:35Emma Grede:Absolutely. It's people I meet throughout my career. It's, you know, I think you're amazing. I hope I can call you one day and be like, Emma, can you give me advice about this? You can call me anytime. It's people that I've met throughout interviews, throughout podcasts, at conferences, and I just call them. And I'm like, hey, I'm having this problem. Can you help me out? And it's that community. I don't have like a mentor. I have a network of incredibly smart people who sometimes are okay giving me 15 minutes of their time. And that's the biggest gifts I can have. First of all, that's amazing

1:05:05Jessie Inchauspé:because I feel like we have this obsession right now of finding mentors. I never had a mentor either. And often people will come to me and say, hey, could you be my mentor? And I'm like, just use this 15 minutes that we've got to ask me a question because I don't have time to be your mentor. But we're in front of each other right now. And I think it's fantastic advice that to use whatever you've got in front of you, to use that 10 minutes that you have backstage with someone at a conference, or you meet somebody on the street, or you're lucky enough to be introduced to somebody. It's like, use whatever is at your disposal to get the information that you need and figure it out.

1:05:42Jessie Inchauspé:Absolutely. Have a crack. You did the first thing. Parts of it worked, parts of it didn't. As you move into this second venture, you're doing things a little bit differently. It's your own learned and lived experience.

1:05:54Emma Grede:Completely, completely. And I was alone at the beginning. I didn't know anybody in the space. I didn't know any other entrepreneurs or people making content on the internet. And so I grabbed information and advice wherever I could find it. I just grabbed it. I didn't have the big structure in place of like, this is going to be the business and I have this board of advisors and these mentors and now I'm ready to go. Ah, no, no, no, no, no. No, it was the other way around.

1:06:17Jessie Inchauspé:I have a feeling that when you're ready for it, there'll be a big long queue out the door of people just being like, this shit is the real deal and we can improve these margins. I'll call you Emma. Just let me know, girl.

1:06:33Emma Grede:They don't call me 80 % for nothing. Totally, totally. And you know, I'll feel it maybe one day, but for now it's working and I'm happy.

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1:09:11Jessie Inchauspé:When you think of like the great voices in your space, in health, in wellness, in science, like who do you want to be mentioned alongside? Like who are the heroes and the people that you think about?

1:09:24Emma Grede:Oh, that's such a beautiful question. You know who are the real heroes? The people who do the scientific studies that nobody knows about. The ones we don't know their names. In my latest book, in my acknowledgments, the first sentence is thank you to all the researchers who've done these studies because they're the real reason this work exists. I'm just a translator of their amazing work. I'm not in the lab doing the studies. They are. Hundreds, thousands of researchers and scientists across the world. They're the real heroes. I'm just here making it useful for people and translating the complicated scientific jargon into something that we can actually use.

1:10:00Emma Grede:But without them, I'm nothing. Without them, any scientific creator online is nothing. So shout out to all the people in the labs doing the work, right? Because they're the ones that are finding the answers.

1:10:12Jessie Inchauspé:No, and I love that you say that because these are the unsung heroes. And when we think about what's happening, you know, I'm not going to go off on a political tangent here. When you think about what's happening to research budgets and in the biggest universities in the land, you know, that is the type of work that is under threat. And we don't hear about it or speak about it nearly enough. But as you quite rightly say, nothing that you do and you communicate so beautifully would be possible without that foundational work, without the work of these unsung heroes that are doing, you know, the most important work to bring humanity and, you know, take us forward.

1:10:51Emma Grede:And these are a lot, this is long work. Like many of these studies take decades. Totally. It's not seasonal like what I do. No, no. They're there working on the same thing for 10, 15 years. Oh yeah. It's tough. It's rough. I was working in a lab doing my master's degree in biochemistry. I was like, I just don't have -

1:11:11Jessie Inchauspé:Don't you love just throwing that into conversation? I was, you know, working in a lab doing my master's degree in biochemistry. I wish I could say that shit.

1:11:17Emma Grede:I might just say that one day. Try it on. Try it on. And I realized this is not for me. Like I got to be, I got to be talking to people and making daily content that I can iterate on. I don't have the patience. I don't have that kind of brain. You have a different kind of brain. I have a different kind of brain. An equally brilliant type of brain.

1:11:34Jessie Inchauspé:We got to know our specialties. Damn right. Yes, we do. I mean, you want, you know, information around glucose and glucose habits to be as common as any other health information. And I feel like you're really doing that. What's the ultimate goal for you?

1:11:50Emma Grede:I think for my work on glucose to become obsolete. So I want to be useless. I want glucose goddess to be useless because everybody knows this stuff. That's the goal of that original idea about glucose. And then personal goal, just want to be happy and use my talents and have a bit of fun and feel like I'm being stretched and I'm doing violent things and improving. I want that. But for the glucose idea, you know, I kind of, I'm very spiritual and I kind of - I feel like you need to T-shirt. We need like doing violent things. Totally. I just, as a little reminder. I love that. It's so good. But I had a sort of a quote unquote conversation with the glucose idea recently because I was asking her like spiritually, like, did I do a good job?

1:12:33Emma Grede:Like, do you feel like the work is done? And she was like, yeah, yep. You're pretty much there. So I made all this content. I made the books. I read the books. The hacks are out there. They're spreading because they work. So people tell their friends and their families and they become, no, everybody knows about the veggies first thing, for example, or, well, everybody. Way more people than at the beginning. Or the savory breakfast, the clothes on carbs, etc. So I feel like I've done a pretty good job. And so now I think I'm going to use my same talents to evolve Glucose Goddess into another direction.

1:13:02Emma Grede:And maybe, maybe she's not going to talk about mental health, which is such a big topic for me. Maybe. That's what comes next after Glucose? I think so, maybe, yeah. Because Glucose Goddess, what does this brand and company do? we make science accessible? And nutrition was the first topic. But now what's the evolution? Where can we go from here?

1:13:20Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah. And I feel like so much of your work and what you've done has been a springboard from actually things that happened in your life that came from real

1:13:27Emma Grede:adversity, right? And your best customer is the person you once were. So I was thinking, I would love to do something for a very specific audience, people in their early twenties who've had spine surgery. Seriously. Because I felt like I love specificity. There's nothing better than a real niche audience. So maybe that's what I'm going to do next with glucose goddess. I don't know. I'm just saying this. We'll see what happens. What's your like broad aspiration?

1:13:53Jessie Inchauspé:Like if we were to fast forward 30, 40 years, what would you want to say?

1:13:59Emma Grede:What would I want to say? Where would I want to be? Yeah. I want to be still writing books. I love the violent process of writing a book. It's very violent. I still want to do the same thing, I think. And I don't know. How lovely is that? Yeah, I don't know, Emma. I don't have, I'm just following my intuition and where the energy flows. I don't know. I don't know where I'm going to be. I don't know. I'm not locked and I'm free. So who knows? Maybe I'm going to be like a expert parachutist. I don't know. because I'm wearing a top that so I honestly don't know but I love what I do I feel so fortunate that I built this beautiful company and this mission so I just want to keep going and see where it takes me and keep having a relationship with this work because it is a relationship but I don't know we shall see we shall see

1:14:50Jessie Inchauspé:we shall see girl we'll be watching exactly we'll be watching I mean congratulations I'm so impressed with you and I think it's so nice when you meet someone that you're like, you know, watching and following and then not fucking disappointed. You're so lovely. Thank you, thank you so much. Okay, now all we need to do is a few rapid fire things. All right, let's do it. What's something you ate recently with zero guilt?

1:15:15Emma Grede:I never feel guilty about food. Oh, that's freedom. And I don't think you should. Because if you're eating it for pleasure, eat it for pleasure. If you're eating it for health, eat it for health. Just be aware of what you're doing. that's about as French an answer as anything could ever get let me tell you

1:15:33Jessie Inchauspé:I think there's just some countries in Europe that have ways of like answering things like France is one of them Italians have the same actually sweet like my husband will say it'll be whatever it is what kind of fucking answer is that like don't ever say that to me

1:15:48Emma Grede:again don't be listen to answer your question very French even though I eat everything without guilt The most recent thing I've eaten entirely for pleasure. So I'm in LA right now, obviously, because we're in LA. But you know Van Leeuwen's, the ice cream place? Oh, yeah, it's good. It's a good one. I love them. I love Van Leeuwen. So I got, so they're out of my favorite one, which is the chocolate fudge brownie. And I'm so pissed off. And I go on Uber Eats every day. I'm like, is the fudge brownie back? And it's still not back. And it's been three weeks. So I got the cookies and cream tub. And I ate the whole tub because I had to find, get a chocolate fix.

1:16:18Emma Grede:That was my most recent pleasure purchase. That's your vice. It's a chocolate fudge ice cream situation. With chocolate sprinkles on top and like chocolate brownie. Okay, Haagen-Dazs, if you're listening. Treble chocolate in it. Okay, Emma, Haagen-Dazs used to have this flavor called chocolate midnight cookies. That's acceptable. And they discontinued it. I loved that flavor.

1:16:38Jessie Inchauspé:Thank you. Why does that always happen? Thank you. Why do they discontinue things? Listen, business idea. Yeah, let's go. Okay, reviving discontinued ice cream flavors. Oh, please. And can we also do foundation shades? Because I swear to God, if we could do ice cream and foundation, I'd be really happy. That's perfect. Let's go. We'll be the discontinued company. I love it. Just a whole bunch of shit that's been discontinued. And we can go out on social and ask people like, what was discontinued and what can we bring back? Emma. It's so business, babe. Girl. Billions of dollars. Let's do it. Let's do it.

1:17:16Jessie Inchauspé:Done. it'll be called Greedy Glucose. Oh, nice. Greedy Goddess. Greedy Goddess. Greedy Goddess. That's the name of the company. You heard it here first. That was such a good flavour, man. It was a good flavour. If you were stranded on... Sorry, I didn't see this question. This is a good one. If you were stranded on an island, what foods would you hope grew there?

1:17:41Emma Grede:Spaghetti. No, actually... An ice cream. Okay, and I scream spaghetti. Eggs. Because, let's be serious for a second, eggs are an amazing superfood, Emma. They contain protein, healthy fats, choline for your brain. They're proper. So actually, if I was stranded, I would hope some sort of animal food would grow there, which would mean I could survive. Because if there was only bananas, I would not survive very long. Because you need protein to survive. So I would hope there was a protein tree somewhere. A protein tree. Yeah.

1:18:09Jessie Inchauspé:Just a couple of random chickens running around. Describe being a mom in three words.

1:18:15Emma Grede:Ooh. Ooh, happiness, hardcore diapers.

1:18:22Jessie Inchauspé:That motherfucking diapers.

1:18:25Emma Grede:What is a book that changed your life? Seeing is forgetting the name of the thing one sees, which is a biography of an artist called Robert Irwin. And I didn't understand art before. And that book made me understand art. Very niche, amazing book, beautiful. So this guy was obsessed with making art that didn't need any of the normal props that art uses. So like a frame. And then he was like, how can I make art without a frame? And then he thought, a wall. How can I make art without a wall? Light. Can I make presents as art? So he stripped everything away. It was incredible. I'll send you the book.

1:19:05Emma Grede:Such a good book. I love it when people come up with a book that I've never even heard of.

1:19:09Jessie Inchauspé:Yeah. It's a very good book. Because I read them. I stack them up. You do? Do you actually? But most people come out with like very similar books, but that's a great, great one.

1:19:18Emma Grede:And he's so obsessive. Like he would spend years figuring out what exact type of screw to put in the back of the canvas so that the canvas was so perfectly flat that it almost merged with the wall. Obsessed. So cool.

1:19:31Jessie Inchauspé:Obsessed. All right. Last question for you. What is something that you aspire to when you were starting out that you no longer aspire to?

1:19:42Emma Grede:I think I aspired to pleasing everybody or making everybody like what I was doing. Because I'm a good girl. I'm a recovered good girl. So at the beginning of the glucose, I was like, I'm going to make something really great. And everybody's going to love it. And we're all going to be a happy family. And today, I don't aspire to that anymore. I aspire to serving the people that are ready for this information. and if you're not ready, it's okay. That's like a mic drop right there.

1:20:13Jessie Inchauspé:Amazing. So good.

1:20:19Jessie Inchauspé:If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. A Spy with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Executive producer, Ashley McShan, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reece-Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren LaGrasso. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black.

1:20:55Jessie Inchauspé:Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

1:21:37Emma Grede:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard this Air France message. From now on, enjoy complimentary high-speed Wi-Fi powered by Starlink, available in all our cabins. Stay connected to the people and things that matter most. Your emails, your music, your current favorite series, or even a live sporting event. With Air France high-speed Wi-Fi, bring your world on your journey. Elegance is a journey. Air France. Available on certain flights. Progressive rollout in 2026. reserved for Flying Blue members, the free loyalty program.