How to Build Something Meaningful From Your Worst Chapter (Sarah Jakes Roberts)

23:57What are those two versions of Sarah look like? You know, I'm probably more from my heart when speaking and more from my mind when doing the business side of things. Are you comfortable in both? Yes. If there is more discomfort on one side, it's probably more the hard side because I'm introverted and I don't necessarily, I don't like speaking. I've just been through a lot and then you're exposing yourself to so many people. So I am protective, but I do on the, on the mind side of things, on the business side, I had to become intentional because nobody knows what this is, but me and people can come in and they can project their ideas of what it can become, but it's going to take it away from what I know it's supposed to be in my core.

24:34And I have to answer it for what I did with this influence, for what I did with this call, for what I did with this purpose. Are you the driver of the strategy and what you want it to be? I feel like I know what it is. It's hard to explain. I have a sense for what Woman Evolve is supposed to be and how it resonates with those people. But I don't always have the talent or the skill set to translate what I feel into meaningful impact. That's interesting. What do you mean by that? You don't have the talent and skill. I love to hear people talk about what they don't have because everybody always talks about what they do have.

25:04So my husband on the business side of things, when we started bringing in larger contracts, I knew where the limits needed to be, but I didn't know how to communicate that to partners in a way It still honored the fact that we wanted to be in relationship, but also created some strong boundaries. And so I depended on him for that. My friend Jason is an incredible visual director. I know what I want it to feel like when the women come into the room, they need to feel fun. They need to feel love. They need to feel the theme really infiltrate everything that they touch. He can execute that in a way that I can't.

25:35So I see myself as someone who understands the vision of what it's supposed to be, how it's supposed to show up. but the actual execution of it, I don't necessarily have the gifts and talents to do that in some arena. Also, I would just think about you as an excellent CEO and leader because, and here's one of the things that I love to talk about all the time, that as a woman in a leadership position, we always envisage that we need to have the answers to absolutely everything, that you need to be the best. And actually you need to be great at what you're great at. And then you need to find all of the people around you to do and execute the rest.

26:07What you are is just an excellent leader. You're an excellent CEO. It doesn't mean to say you need to be, you know, you don't need to do the books. You don't need to do the finances. You don't need to do the visual. You need to have the vision and tell everybody where to go. Well, thank you. I want to create space for the best to be the best. And so my goal is to attract the type of environment and culture that makes it easy for people who have a gift and a talent to come in and to be able to really expand it and magnify it in a way that is ultimately meaningful for the women we get to serve. Do you have lessons in leadership that you feel like over the years, like what has changed in your style of leadership and how you come into the kind of business of what it is that you do?

26:53For sure. I think when I first started, I would just take whatever came my way and whatever people said I should do. And I was finding myself like overwhelmed and not really being clear about my message, my brand, my desire to show up in the world as directed by what I believe my sense of calling is. and now I feel more agency, more of a sense of ownership to say what I will do, what I won't do. And I think one of the greatest things that I've learned as a leader is to not apologize for what I don't know. I think that there's this temptation when you're finished, like accepting whatever comes your way, that now I'm going to overcompensate and know everything and do everything.

27:29And I feel like I have found the way to balance, like this I'm really strong in. I know this for sure. I know that for sure. And the things that I don't know, I don't mind not knowing because it doesn't change who I am in the equation of things. And I don't have to know something that I don't know. My father taught me, he's like, you only don't know once. So if you're ever in a room and someone's talking about something you don't know or something you don't understand, if you ask, you only don't know once. And then from there, you're able to add to your knowledge. That's some good advice. Isn't that great?

27:55That's such good. He should do something with his life. He should do something. What's he doing over there? I want to talk to you about money, my favorite subject. You grew up in, as you say, a house of faith. And I guess that that would have given you a very specific relationship with money. And I just wondered how it shaped your idea of money and how you think about wealth and earning money now. My father is more of the variety of like, I have money, you don't. We're rich. Oh, yeah. That don't have nothing to do with you. Like I said, my parents were on government assistance when I was born.

28:34And so I've seen their life grow and evolve. But I think like a lot of families and cultures like mine, my parents were so busy surviving and trying to make the money that they didn't have time to talk about it. So we didn't have a lot of conversations about finances. My father would be on don't ask me to borrow any if you have already spent the money that you had from your paycheck. So I feel like we learned a lot of things on our own or just by watching them. And so I've had to manage my relationship with money from a sense of like, if I don't talk about it, then I'm not going to be able to negotiate for what I need in this moment or to get what I need the truth from other people.

29:13That's the other thing about being in a position. I think this may be true in every field, but I think when you're in a position of faith, like people want to offer you something in exchange for what you've maybe done in their lives with your messages. and I want to know what it costs for real because, you know, gifts are nice, but I want to know what it would really cost for me to put this CV on if you weren't here. And so I've had to have some intentional conversation with people about like, give me a realistic view of what this costs so that I can plan for longevity and not just for this season.

29:43Has there ever been any conflict in you about essentially making money from a faith connected business? For sure. I think one, even though like when you're writing books, the resources come from the publisher, there's this fine line of wanting to make sure that my ancillary businesses, which do bring in revenue, doesn't look like I'm taking it from people. And I think that there are some legitimate concerns and legitimate ill practices that have taken place that has created distrust between people and faith leaders. And so I've constantly tried to position myself in such a way that I am able to sustain my life and the things that we have going on in our lives outside of resources or donations from other people.

30:23I've always tried to make sure that that was a part of what we do because I am relying ultimately on the gifts and talents that God gave me just like everyone else has. And I want to make sure that we're leveraging them with responsibility.

31:15I want to talk a little bit about your family life and you as a mother because it's such a huge part of who you are. When I was doing my research, I kind of counted like six kids in a blended family. But let's kind of take me back because we know that you're a teenage mom. I think your eldest is 23 now. Malachi? I mean, the idea of a 23-year-old son when you're younger than me is mind-blowing. Yeah, it really is something. I just wonder like what he has taught you about yourself. Because obviously, you know, it's like, you know, motherhood teaches you so much. but this particular child must have taught you maybe more than the others.

31:55I don't know. Malachi has made me believe that I wasn't as bad as I thought I was because I think I spent so much of his childhood feeling like I'm just such a terrible person, such a terrible mom. He deserves so much better. I could do so much better. But he has some of the most beautiful memories of his childhood. Like he texted me today, he was eating an orange and he was like, this reminds me when I went to summer camp and you packed me this huge lunch. I got to feed all of my friends. And so even though I felt disconnected, and distant, he was still getting a part of me that felt like the best part of me, even though I didn't know I was doing my best, which I think is such a message to women who are trying to do it all.

32:32That in those moments where you're hard on yourself because you feel like you're falling short, that these children are, they're grading us on a curve. They're grading us on a curve and they don't know any different. And if we can give them the love that we have, if we can give them the presence that we have, even as we're growing and changing, that it's enough. And as we grow, the more that we give them, that'll be enough too. But I don't think I was as bad of a mother as I thought I was as a teenager. How does that make you feel? Thanks. Don't do it, Emma. Listen, girl, this is our second time talking.

33:03You're not going to have me crying. I'm going in. Because I just, I understand that. Like I understand living with a feeling of how you assumed it was going to be and almost like that becoming your reality in your head because you were like, I had him so young. I am a bad mom. This, you know, and then the idea that he can turn around and say to you, I have great memories. Like that's a big deal. I think the idea that as for me, the idea that I didn't want to mess it up, like so many of the choices that I made was because I didn't want to mess them up. I didn't want to mess them up. I think being driven by that made me show up for him in a way that kept me from messing it up.

33:47And I feel like if it really matters to you, even if you don't know what you're doing, the fact that you're trying, I think they pick up on the effort. Yeah. They pick up on the trying. And I think that that can give us consolation as we mother and navigate uncertainty. Oh, my kids should be so happy with me. There's so much effort. It doesn't always work out exactly as I want it to, but the intention, I actually think that, I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say that, that your kids will pick up on the effort and the intention, which for any mother out there who is just doing her best is huge.

34:26I believe that. My son's in his 20s, but if you think about it, even as we think about our parenting dynamics, like the things that we penalize our parents for the most is like, it's like you didn't try, But then you can tell when they did try. You know when they were trying. They were trying. And I think that a lot of times we end up with parent ones because it feels like you didn't really try. Even when your best wasn't enough, we can at least reconcile the fact that, hey, at least you gave it your best shot. It's the not trying at all that I think leaves us the most wounded. Like you could have at least tried.

34:57Facts. Facts. The idea that they can actually feel the effort and the intention is a really big and really huge takeaway that I hope anybody that's listening to this really can double down on and understand. Because if you're doing your best, that might be all you have to give. That's it. That might be it. I was interested in your parenting philosophy because you've got a lot of children. You have like, so you've got your first kid you had as a teenager. You then have a second kid. You then have three in your current relationship and one that you had together. Yes. So I'm counting. It's a lot of things.

35:33It's six. It's six. And with everything going on, have you adopted a specific parenting style, parenting philosophy? Like what what is happening? What does your family look like? You know, the way I try to parent and the way I was parented, they don't they don't go together. Oh, good. That was my next question. Let's talk about that. And I had to see. And the problem is that I was formed in a form of parenting that is so counter to the way that I want to parent, that I have to remind myself when parenting my children to not turn into my parents when parenting them. Because my parents, they didn't really care about your feelings.

36:09You know, they cared that you did what I told you to do. And I find myself, when my children think I care about their feelings, and I led them to believe that I cared about their feelings. But Emma, sometimes I don't care. And that's the problem is they think I care when I don't. And so I'm having to create space for their feelings while also creating space for my own in this dynamic. Just let's pause there for a second, because I feel like this generational divide is so real, right? Let's just be fair. Like, never in my life of my entire childhood did my mother care about my feeling toward a certain situation.

36:47And I thought they were wrong until I started hearing these feelings. And I was like, that's why they didn't care. They knew it was a slippery slope. And they said, we won't do this. We owe the boomers an apology because y 'all had it a little right. Because now I find myself having to care about things I don't care about. So here I am after the longest day known to man talking about what happened on the playground. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I don't care. Absolutely. And I don't care that you don't want to do your homework and that you don't want to eat these vegetables. But, you know, I'm trying to, like, care in a way that I haven't.

37:21And that's interesting. My greatest philosophy about parenting, beyond like don't let these kids kill you and don't let these kids take you out, is create space for you to be a person in the midst of it all. Because kids are selfish by nature. It's okay. The moment they enter the world, everything centers around them. But if you do not begin to introduce that you're tired, that you have vulnerable moments, that you're afraid sometimes, then they will think that you are superhuman instead of just a super good mom or a super good parent. And I want them to know that sometimes it costs me to show up in the way that I do.

37:57That I'm not always in a space where I can take on everything concerning you that I need time to. And so I'm trying to introduce them to who I am as a woman, not just who I am as their mother. I mean, bravo. First of all, you're speaking to the start with yourself lately. So I am. Yeah, because when I read your book, I was like, Emma, you were like, the family chapter starts with you. I don't know if you edit it properly. You like to start family. I learned a lot. No, your book, it really helped me tremendously with business and with family. Well, I'm so happy that you say that. And I think it's a really important point that you make because if you don't reinforce the idea that you are something other than a mother, you kind of set your entire family up to see you, but nothing other than a mother, right?

38:44And so you have to kind of take responsibility for that too. And I feel like so many of us make ourselves indispensable to our family. We make our households incapable of running without us. And then we wonder why everybody's looking to us to do everything. For sure. And so I think that when I think about start with yourself, it's that, you know what? Everybody in this house can pick things up from the floor and everybody can make a dinner and everybody can contribute. And so the idea that the mother is going to just be there to constantly service the needs of everybody really dissipates when you've taught everyone that that's not how it is from the get-go.

39:21And so I think that there is so much that I always want to do, but I don't need everybody else to want me to do it too. So for me, it's just about being really honest about, you know, everybody contributes to this. It's not like mom number one and then, you know, like a bunch of children. It's just not how it works. That's my first sign that I need to make a pivot with that my life has gotten imbalance is when my children start asking me to do things that is perfectly reasonable for them to ask me to do, but that irritates me. So like if they start asking me what's for dinner, I know that like, okay, I've moved into this space where I'm allowing like everyone to rely on me so much so that when they ask me a simple question, like what's for dinner, I'm annoyed and irritated.

40:04I got to feed you. Can I get a drink? Can I get a snack? I'm like, yeah, wait a minute. You know what I mean? And so allowing them to like, you know, I'm like, I need help. I need support or We're going to have to, yes, I have to reorient them. Yes. But, you know, I think the other thing is a lot of times, now this is going to be deeper. You ready? I think that when we have had moments like I've had, where we have struggled with self-esteem and low self-worth, it is affirming that the world only spins if we're in the center of it. And it can be edifying for us that everyone needs us. It makes us feel valued.

40:37It makes us maybe stressed and all of those things too. But we kind of like that this world will fall apart if I wasn't in it. And I do think that there is a need for us to de-center ourselves and to not need the world to revolve around us if we're really going to experience the type of liberation that allows them to, one, grow up and be self-sufficient, but also for us to be affirmed outside of what we do for other people. We have to remove the need for other people to center themselves around us. I mean, a million percent. And not only that, but the ability for you to be able to meet yourself in the highest possible way, you need to not be dragged down by all of this stuff that everybody else can help with.

41:17So it's like the two things are, we have to remove our ego from any of that situation and really understand like, what is the goal? Not just for me, but for the entirety of our family. Like that's a really key thing. I want everybody to feel like they have a position and a job and a role in this family. And I don't want to have to carry that. God forbid, if anything ever happened to me, I always think like, I want my kids and my husband to feel like they understand what is required, that they are part of like what has built this and that it doesn't live and fall with me. I always try to have a level of honesty about the things that I am not doing.

41:59Because when you work as much as you do and you have all of those kids, like something gives. And I talk about trade-offs all the time. Do you have trade-offs? Are there things that you are just not doing that other moms might be like, I do that all the time. What are you not doing? I don't cook as often as I should. We definitely have support in the kitchen because it's a lot of work and a lot of mouths to feed. That's a lot of food. I don't do the laundry. This is what I started doing when I started growing in the area of revenue. I started asking myself, how much of this am I doing that someone else could do that would not necessarily damage my children?

42:39And they do not care whether or not I fold their clothes. No. They don't. No. They do like to have clean underwear, though. And we like them to have clean underwear. I prefer it. But who cleans the underwear? There's a little negotiation there, you know? And so it started like we would maybe a laundry service for just a few things. But then we've been able to evolve that as well. So, yeah, there's definitely some things that I'm not doing. And then there are other things that I absolutely have to do. I will die on a hill about getting them kids to school in the morning and picking them up. We all have our hard and fast.

43:14Like, this is my thing. I must see them. I need to see their attitudes before they go to school. And I need to see their attitudes when they're coming home. So when I'm on a trip like this, their sister's picking them up, which is like their older sister's like the next best thing to have a mom look at them because I know that she'll take care of them. But I don't play about being with them. And can I tell you, I think not even basing it on income, because part of what low-income families are able to do that often middle and upper-class families don't do is low-income families. they work together in order to facilitate someone's going to school and like we all did back in the day exactly and so I think that we have an opportunity to also make sure that we are allowing people to help us people who say things like if you need anything let me know that we don't want people to feel like well I don't want them to think I'm not being responsible so I don't want to ask for any help so important is help that there are literally government assistant programs to help caretakers have a day out so that they can take care of themselves instead of taking care of other people.

44:10And so I also want to just challenge people to not think that help is limited to certain income brackets, that there's often community support and there are often programs that exist to help people of all income spectrums to be able to get help and support that they need. But you still got to be open to taking the help. But you got to, and admitting that you need it. Admitting that you need it is a huge, huge thing. Yes. And let me tell you who else you need to help you. You need your husband to help you, which takes me to my next subject, which is the whole marriage and the business and the partnership because you work with your husband.

44:40And one of the things that I wanted to ask you is that for women that have fought so hard to become their own person and to have their independence, what does it look like trying to actually build alongside somebody? You know, Emma, I tell my husband all the time, I'm so submissive. I'm so submissive. I say that because he has wrestled with me. If you have to tell him, I feel like it might not be true. I'm like, you know what? I am blown away by how submissive I am. It really is. You know, and he giggles. I'm not sure what the joke is. It's hard, especially like, I'm going to talk to you like I would talk to like one of my homegirls, right?

45:17When you have had somebody play in your face and play with your time and play with your body and your mind, the last thing you're going to do is let somebody get over on you again. Let me just let me just lay down. Do you think? Absolutely not. Right. And so I think I got married. I was like, I love him, but like, I'm never going to let anybody play in my face again. But what I realized is like having someone reflect your face is not the same as someone playing in your face. And so I had to learn the beauty. How long did that take you? Well, we're 12 years in. So 11 years and six months, you know, you know, it's hard.

45:55I was so busy trying to protect myself from him that I didn't get to experience the beauty of who he is. And so trusting because of my faith, we had this like what God has put together, let no person tear apart. And I didn't want to be the one who was tearing it apart. And so I really had to trust that God would allow me to be in partnership with someone who could help make my life better. Even though I had experiences where I put myself with someone in the past and it didn't make it better. So there is a humility. There is an awareness. is, that's the other thing is, I recovered so hard that I didn't think I had any flaws.

46:31You know, after I went down in the dumps and came up like the phoenix that I believe that I am, I said, wow, you really are that girl. There are very few things wrong with you, and if they are, they're in your past. Then I meet Prince Charming, and Prince Charming's like, your shoes off, and I'm like, sir, I prefer to be barefoot. And he's like, okay, well, your wig is still the eye prefer my wig tilted. Listen, I will take that off for you. Like I've seen that cell phone site. And so I missed out on the opportunity to like really have meaningful feedback that can make me better. And so when I learned to like at least take his feedback, even if I took it with my eyes rolled and then like, you don't know what you're talking about.

47:10I'd like take it into my closet and be like, well, let me look at it and see what he said. And I would see opportunities for me to grow and opportunities for me to change. And I learned to come to a space where I realized we really are on the same team. Now his delivery may be different from mine. His perspective may be different. We may have to learn how to communicate things, but I know that he's for me. And knowing that he is for me has been one of the greatest gifts that I think that I have been able to offer to our marriage because it has changed the way that we communicate. But it is hard to be in partnership after you've been wounded and hurt and to allow someone into the most intimate parts of your life is challenging.

47:47But when you really trust that that person is there to make your life flourish and they have evidence of it, right? because we're not just talking about words. I looked at the way that his evidence showed up. We were just dating. He lived in California. I lived in Dallas. It was my daughter's first day of school. He flies into town for her to go to her first day of school. You know what I mean? There were these little things, these little signs along the way where I said, I can trust him. And most importantly, you can trust yourself again. And I feel like, yeah. You can trust yourself again when you've made poor decisions in the past.

48:20You don't trust yourself. It's not about the other person. That's always what I feel like when there are tough relationships, when there are infidelities, when you feel like somebody has played in your face to use your words. It's not just a mistrust of the other side. It's a mistrust of yourself. Like you are like, I didn't see that. I didn't understand that. I allowed that to happen to me. So you have to build that trust of yourself. Do you trust yourself now? Yes, I do. I trust myself to do the best that I can with what I know and to recover from what I don't know.

49:06Where does the kind of past creep up with you? Because one of the things that's so extraordinary, first of all, you have a marriage and a life and children with your husband. You also work together. We do. which completely like just adds, you know, little spice and fire and all the things to the dynamic. How have you kind of reconciled both of those things? I think, and we're both drivers, right? So when we work together, we play a game called How Low Can You Go? Yeah. Oh, please tell. Okay, so it's like, you know, here's what I think should happen, but hey, I'm going to toss it over to him to see what he'd like to see happen.

49:41He tosses it back to me like, that's a great idea. Here's another perspective that could help take this to the next level. So we're always trying to like honor one another's contribution because we are both the drivers. But I also think that we recognize that we have different strengths. And so he's very macro. He can see the big picture and to see the big vision. I can see some of the roadblocks we may encounter in the executing of those ideas. And that happens like the same way our family exists is the same way that our business relationship exists. And so he may have this idea like, hey, the family is going to run a 5K.

50:14And I'm like, that sounds like a really great idea. in execution, that means we need to start training three days a week. We need to change the nutrition. Like I'm the one who's going to say like, okay, we need to, this is how it's going to filter out. And so that, that same thing exists in our business. And so, um, and I've also learned to communicate to him in a way that allows our ideas to really be platformed properly. I don't, it's, it's a dance. It's a dance. It's a dance. He doesn't care. There are certain things that he, I know he doesn't care about. And there are things he knows that I don't care about, but we have to keep one another informed about those things that the other person doesn't care about because that gets tricky too.

50:50So tell me like if there's a big decision in your business that would affect like thousands of people, who wins out? Like who, what happens in those situations? That we, we both win. We have to, if there's something big, we have to both agree about the decision that we're going to take or we don't do it at all. Oh, I like that rule. Yeah. Yes. The smaller things is kind of like, Hey, I think that's going to be a loss, but that's up to you. You know what I mean? It's your L to take or we'll take the L together. You know what I mean? But while we're taking the L, I'll be telling you, hey, we didn't have to take this L.

51:22But the big things we have to be on the same page about. It's a good rule. I really, I think, and I know that that works. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about legacy because you obviously, you know, your father is one of the most famous pastors in the whole world. And when I think about about the idea that you are, you know, in some extent following in his footsteps. I wonder how you make it yours and how you're thinking about what you want to take from what you learned and what you saw growing up and what you might want to leave behind and what's in your future. I don't know if I think about that much at all, to be honest.

52:05Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I don't think about how to make it mine. I just am me and I bring me to it. and whatever happens from that place happens from that place. But I think that, you know, I've grown up in this shadow my entire life. And I think that there were moments where I was like, I'm going to be myself. I'm going to have distinction and I'm going to force myself to have a carve out. And I think in the process of doing that, I just wore myself out. And so now I just focus on like, what is true for me? What is authentic to me in my delivery and my studying in the way that I connect and relate to people.

52:40and in the process of doing that, people make whatever choices they make about whatever lane I'm in or whatever it is they see. But I want to be able to lay down at night and say that I was true to myself and true to what I possess. So how do you think about constantly being a woman who is evolving? Well, as it relates to the speaking and being able to talk to people, I really look at them. I think in a world where we can become consumed by seeing people as figures and numbers that we miss out on the opportunity to really see them. And so when I'm in a room and I'm speaking, I'm looking at what moves people, what resonates with them to really see them as people.

53:21I'm asking myself when studying, what does this mean to the guy who sits on the second row? What does this mean to the person who's going to watch this on YouTube? One of the beauties of social media, and it's got a lot of complexities, but one of the beauties is it allows you to see how people think, how people receive what's happening in the world. And so I get to ask myself, how does this message translate to all of these different people that I get to be exposed to? And I think that that evolves me as a woman. You know, I am in a position where I get to meet people in some of their most vulnerable moments and some of their most vulnerable dreams and aspirations.

53:55And the fact that they would trust me with that makes me want to be as well-versed as possible about the obstacles they face, practical, emotional, spiritual, and to give them the types of tools that empower them to take agency in their lives. That's part of the reason why I've gone back to school is to understand what interventions work, which ones don't, and how do I create the types of programs that allow people to really feel positioned to grow into the best versions of themselves. And so I see my teachers as the people who are on the streets as much as my professor, as much as it is my Bible and the books that I read.

54:28I've got teachers everywhere. I wonder what you still aspire to and for in your life. I aspire to take the large impact of Women Evolve and to funnel it down into local expressions that are well informed about the obstacles and barriers that exist within certain communities and creates the type of programmings and tools to help those who are marginalized to move into a position of power. I think a lot about AI and how it's going to impact a generation of people who may not be as educated or may not have as much access to technology as it changes. And, you know, no matter how far removed you think you are from that, it's going to impact all of us.

55:13And I want to give them the best shot possible at having a life of, you know, stability for sure, but also wholeness and healing. That's a really big aspiration. I know I've got to funnel it down. No, I've got it. I mean, if anyone can do it, you can do it. Thank you. All right, we're going to rapid fire. What are you watching or listening to right now that has nothing to do with faith? Oh, um... Oh, one second. Oh, Lioness. Oh, there's something spiritual about Lioness, though. I don't know. Does it have something to do with faith? Because my girl is at her doing the Lord's... No, okay. Lioness.

55:53We just binge watched Lioness at Paradise. You know, Emma, let me tell you something. Place, as a girl who grew up in church, particularly black church, we find something spiritual about everything, okay? We just be like, I feel a little oil on that. That's what we say, okay? I'll be watching shows that happen, don't have anything to do with it. Let me tell you. You'll be like, you know, I can see it. Honey, if I bite into the right morsel of food, I would be like, Holy Ghost, right here. Felt it right here. So, you know, everything's going to be a little spiritual for me, but Paradise and Lioness is probably taking over right now.

56:27First of all, that's just a great answer. And I feel like that about almost every meal I have. What is your morning routine on a Sunday before you preach? I get up. Well, no. When I first, when my alarm first goes off, I keep my eye mask on for a minute and I sit there and I breathe. And I remind myself of what day it is because sometimes I don't even know what day it is or what is expected of me during the day. but I invite the peace of God and the presence of God into my day and ask that I can be a reflection of God in everything that I do. That's before I step out of the bed. I love that. Yeah.

57:04What's the last thing you searched? Oh, I don't know. What's the last thing I remember? Be honest. Because the most random things are in my search history. Oh my gosh. I'm going to have to give you the most random. My husband and I were looking up something random. I can't remember what it was. I don't know. Probably something about a wash and go hairstyle. See, because my daughter wanted to get her. She wanted to. Let me tell you, you know, I wear a lot of wigs. Yes. I've mentioned. And so my hair is usually braided down and have seen. We have seen. My hair is usually braided down. But every now and then, my daughter, I let her take her hair out.

57:50And she's been wanting to do a wash and go. And I really thought that doing a wash and go was like washing and going. And what I learned is that the people are lying on the Internet. They're lying. If you should trust anybody, it should be the people on the Internet. I don't know why y 'all calling these things a wash and go. It's very much like you've been washing. Stay home before you go anywhere. And so I probably— We don't have time for it. No. Absolutely not. No. No. Hard no. No. No. So don't, don't search that. What's your top guilty pleasure? Oh, a Starbucks cookie, a chocolate chip cookie from Starbucks.

58:23Oh, really? It's terrible. Emma, it's terrible. How often do you allow yourself? What's the indulgement rate? Well, OK, so here's the thing. People say that like, you know, nutrition, if you do like 80 percent good and 20 percent bad. So 80 percent of my day is good. That 20 percent I save. So, you know, is it every day? It could be. Possibly. Yeah. I mean, I understand that. I used to work with this guy who, and he was like a junior guy in the office and we'd all be around and the girls and we'd be having a treat. And he used to walk past our desks and say, it's not a treat if it happens every day, girls.

59:05And I just remember you. It's so inventive. Someone hurt him. I want you to be free from that. I want freedom for you. Leave us about 20%. All right, last question. What is a book that changed your perspective? And, oh, I was probably supposed to say the Bible. I thought you were going to. Oh, I thought TikTok was saying the Bible. But no, no, no, you can choose any book that you, any other book. Okay, Permission to Feel by Mark Brackett. It was life-changing for me. I had gone through this. My book hit the New York Times bestseller list, and my friends and family, they were all excited, and I just did not care.

59:43And I realized that there was something wrong with me. where I wasn't able to feel moments accurately. And that book really helped me a lot. Wow. Thank you, my love. This is heaven. Thank you.

59:58If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. You'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Executive producer, Ashley McShann. Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reece-Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Lagrasso. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black.

1:00:34Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

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