How to Create What People Actually Want with Erin and Sara Foster

23:48We're not trying to be famous. We're not just trying to be these LA vapid reality stars. Like that's not who we are. And so then we made this comedy about two girls who are these vapid reality stars trying to become famous. We took the thing that we were so scared people were thinking of us. And then we just decided to be in on the joke. And that's when everything shifted for us. Everything. Because all of a sudden, I feel like you were seen as that you were in on it. Like it wasn't happening to you. You were like, we're going to take this and we're going to create from it. I think when you have low self-esteem, which I really suffer from low self-esteem, Erin does not, which I think is amazing.

24:25I think you're so afraid for people to think that thing about you that you think about yourself. When Sarah says she has bad self-esteem or low self-esteem and I don't, it's not that we don't have the same initial instinct of like a negative voice around something about ourselves. It's that I hear the negative voice and then I push past it. Or Sarah will let that negative voice control what she decides to do. I don't. I hear like, ooh, I think that's like a bad picture of me. And then the second voice is like, I'm not going to live like that. Put it out. I feel exactly the same. It's not like I don't have the bad days.

24:58It's just that I am resolute that that is not going to be the thing that stops me. Exactly. It's like, I've got to go past that.

25:08When we started developing the cotton range at Skims, we could have just made one great cotton fabric and call it a day. Most brands do, but cotton behaves differently depending on how it's woven and what you're wearing it for. And treating it as one category just leaves way too much on the table. And that's why at Skims we built four. We have everyday cotton. It's the most structured, designed for intimates. Cotton jersey, that's just softer for more relaxed everyday pieces. And cotton rib, it has a closer, more sculpting fit. And then you've got lightweight cotton, which is built for warmer months.

25:41The piece I've been reaching for as we head back into the back half of the summer is the cotton jersey t-shirt. It's soft, it holds its shape, and it works with almost everything, whether that's under a blazer or for something more polished with denim for the weekend. It's one of those pieces where the fabric does most of the work. That's what I appreciate about the cotton range, the same fabric cut for whatever moment you're in. Shop everyday cotton and all of my favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. And after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select podcast in the service day and make sure you select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

26:16Hey there, it's Jill Schlesinger. I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves and your money is going to move. We're going to help you make better financial decisions. We're going to call out the BS you're finding all over social media. We're going to give you actionable guidance to make your financial life clearer, less stressful. We're going to answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of your financial life. Follow and listen to Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger wherever you get your podcasts.

26:51Something that I have wanted to talk to you about for the longest time, because I know that you went through talking about pushing through things. you went through 20 rounds of IVF. And you did all of that while you were creating Nobody Wants This, which arguably is like the biggest, most successful, brilliant thing that you've done. And I just wanted to understand, how were you able to do those two things and hold those two things? Well, it was going on over the course of like seven years. So it wasn't, you know, it was sort of, it sort of just became a part of my life, you know, because you think, I'm going to get pregnant.

27:26I'm going to try to get pregnant. I had frozen my eggs like three times before I even met my husband just because I was almost 36 when I met him. And I only got a couple eggs each time, but I thought like, you know, it's not the insurance policy that most women think it is. Now there's a little more awareness around it, but the likelihood of that egg working is just very low. If you have 10 eggs frozen, they're sort of just like empty little vessels and you have no idea what's inside them, how good they are, or what's going to take. Like it was a shocking number of cycles that I went through. And I guess to answer your question, there was a point where it was like my whole life was wrapped up in getting pregnant.

28:07And I was so sick of thinking about it and sick of talking about it. And it was hard for the people around me because there's not really anything you can say that will help. I started telling everyone like, please don't ask me questions when I go to the doctor. Like there's only really one update to give you. Yeah. Which is I'm pregnant or I'm not. And I promise I'll tell you if I'm pregnant. it. But until then, I can't say like it grew three centimeters or the eggs or whatever. What she went through is you're downplaying it. It was gnarly. It was gnarly. It was. It was bad. I mean, I had no idea that you were going through, you know, I'm not one of your closest friends.

28:39I had no idea that you were going through that. And so from an outsider's perspective, it was kind of unimaginable that as you were having all this success, you also had this like hardship. And then I remember actually just reading your caption because I was like, oh my God, like she's had the baby. And I read that caption and I was like just stuck in my seat because I was like, wow, 20 rounds and what that takes. Like it really is extraordinary. It did really, really shift my perspective in my life because there was this thing that I wanted more than anything. And I've wanted to be a mom since I was like a teenager.

29:14Like I've always been very clear. When Sarah had her daughter, Valentina, and I was what, like 26 or 27, and Sarah was never the mom that was like into, you know, kids' birthday parties and stuff. So I'm like, I'm taking her to the kids' birthday parties. I had a car seat in my car when I was single in my 20s. I'm like, you got music. You're that auntie. Yeah. I'm like, and by the way, that's when our relationship actually really changed when I had kids because we were like, well, she can't be mad at me for that long because she wants to see the kids and you know I'll keep the kids from her if she's a bitch to me.

29:45Yeah, if she's a bitch to me, I'm like, well, you're not going to see the kids. But the point is, is that there was this thing that I so deeply wanted and the universe wasn't giving it to me. Every single round was worse than the one before. I mean, there are times I woke up from anesthesia and they're like, there actually wasn't any eggs in there at all. And I'm like, sorry, I was doing medicine for a month and there's nothing in there. Like it was real lows, right? There were no highs. There was all lows. But never once, never once as all of her friends around her, pregnancy after pregnancy, she always was happy.

30:18I think I even said to her once, I was like, wait a minute, is that hard for you that your friend is now like complaining that she's pregnant with number four and it was unexpected? And she's like, no, like I'm happy for them. Oh, I don't know how you did that. You showed up to every baby shower with a smile on your face. You never were like, poor me ever. And I think that's why the universe ended up giving you that thing. I don't think that that person's pregnancy is stopping me from getting pregnant. So they're not connected, right? I really was just focused on what my journey is. Why is this not happening for me?

30:47It definitely sent me down a non-toxic journey. I stopped wearing nail polish. I stopped eating certain foods. I started drinking certain foods. I started, I did every method. You know, the problem with trying to get pregnant is that every method tells you that the other method is wrong. So one person's like, if you aren't drinking the pregnancy smoothie, you can't get pregnant. The other person's like, if you eat cold foods, you're never going to get pregnant. So now I can't have the smoothie. So you're doing so many things and everything makes you feel like you're doing something to stop you from getting pregnant, whether it be the food you're eating, the things you're putting around your body, or that you are thinking about it too much.

31:19All of it is your fault. Didn't you love when people are like, just don't think about it. Yeah. It's a really mean thing. Please don't say that to people. Ladies, never say that. What do you think going through that? And I don't want to spend too long on this because I know it's a very sensitive subject too, but I'm just interested to understand what going through something like that does to you in terms of your perspective, how you think about your life, your business, the importance of everything that you're doing? Was there a big shift for you? Yeah. I mean, there was a point where I thought, okay, I might never have the thing that I want.

31:52Am I going to let it ruin my life? Like I have to be able to be happy without this thing. I have good people in my life. I'm, I'm, I have an amazing husband. I'm in a happy marriage. I have a great family. Like I love my nieces and nephews. I don't get to decide, right? It's not up to me. So if it never happens, I'm going to be miserable forever. Like I didn't want that to be my fate. So I do think that you can apply this to many situations in your life, which is, yes, there's a thing you want. Yes, you might never get it. Are you going to let that stop you from having a good life? I do think that we decide what's enough and we decide if our life is good or not.

32:31Like you can decide you're the luckiest person on the fucking planet. And so can the person next to you, like you decide. I believed when I was living in a tiny rental house and couldn't get pregnant that I really did have the best life. And now I'm living in my dream home with my child and my husband. And yes, I do think that I have a perfect life, but I also felt that way 10 years ago. Abundance mindset. I feel really lucky to be here. There she is. And you old scarcity over there. Yeah. Look at Sarah just struggling. I got nothing for me. I got nothing for me. I'm so sad. I want to switch up a gear because I think one of the things that you guys have is like such a clear like brand point of view.

33:13It's very clear who you are and what you stand for. Basic bitch. You said that, not me. Absolutely not. No, but I think like as a person that comes from like a marketing point of view and someone who is very planned about everything, by the way, It would like, if you two were my clients, I would find it so easy to like map out. Here's what I think you should be doing. And here's where you guys are going to be successful. Will you help us? Anytime, just let me in. But I wonder like when, like at what point did you guys really start to trust the thing that people seeing you? I still don't. I still like think to myself, I'm like, what are we doing?

33:51Well, people really respond to the fact that you two are yourselves. Yeah. Right. I think that's what you have. Like, I feel like it's very believable. I don't look at you guys and favorite daughter and be like, they're not wearing that. But we're both head to toe. No, but I believe it. And I know it to be true. But it's like, I feel like the stuff that the thing that you do really, really well is being yourselves. And so I wonder, is there at some point where you were just like, we're just going to fucking lean into that? I mean, it's pretty freeing when you, and it's like, we didn't invent this.

34:19Everybody knows what's the thing you would try if you weren't afraid to fail, right? Like we all know that. But I really do think once you realize that nobody is thinking about you or watching you the way that you think they are, once you stop and go, no one actually is watching. Just go do your thing. Go be you. Go try. I have an amendment to that, though. Yeah. Even if they are watching, who cares? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because sometimes people are. Sometimes people want you to fail, right? Sometimes people are applauding the thing that didn't work. So it's like, okay, so what's the worst thing that happens?

34:49We fail. Everyone sees that we failed. It goes up in flames. okay, then what? Like, am I going to die? I agree with both of you entirely. And it's something that I wrote about so much in my book because the fear that holds us back is like so, it's so stifling. It's so stifling. But once you get to that point where you're like, oh, you know what? I failed. Everybody saw. And guess what? I'm still fucking fine. And I still have it in me to go again. That shit is freeing. What it does is it actually builds confidence. It builds the ability for you to understand that shit's not going to kill me. Yeah, it builds confidence.

35:25It really does. Because you don't wake up confident. You actually learn confidence through going through shit and it being just fine. And it's not just work-related. I mean, it's being rejected by love, right? It's having someone look at you and go like, I don't find you attractive. It's someone looking at you and I know that's never happened to you. It's someone going like, I don't want to be with you, right? I don't feel the same way as you do. Whatever it is. Just never responding. It reminds you of your humanity. It's like, oh, okay, you didn't have the same experience that I had. You don't feel the same way that I feel.

35:59You don't want the same thing that I want. It's like, it creates this new version of yourself that I do believe is the same thing you're using when you have to push through discomfort in your career. 100%, but how do you get to, and how have you two got to the point where you've been able to control those emotions and understand that about yourself? I don't think we do. No, I don't think we do. I don't think we do control it. But I'll tell you this. We're lucky to have each other. I always tell my girls, I'm like, guys, I don't want you to go to college because the thing you're going to major in is going to be the thing that you end up doing.

36:32I want you to go to college because I want you to meet your people. I want you to meet your future co-founders. I want you to meet your future... Future co-founders. I know. Can I tell you, I knew you were going to pull her on that one. I know, but I say, but that's, I'm not just saying that... I want you to go to college not to learn what your degree is in, but so you can start a business with somebody. Well, to just meet your people, whatever that is, your lifelong friends, the people you're going to start a business with, the person that's going to hire you. Like you need to go meet your community because I think we are all sitting here knowing without our community, we're nothing.

37:04That's it. So I tell my girls, that's why you go to college. Like, I don't know. Maybe that's bad advice, guys. I also tell them to use AI when they're doing their homework. So Erin goes, Sarah, that is, you cannot. I was telling my 15 year old, I was like, girl, go on chat. You did not tell us to go on chat. She couldn't figure this thing out. I go, girl, go on chat. And is that terrible parenting? No, it's not terrible parenting. My point of view is that like, I'm for myself concerned about my level of thinking. So it's like, I don't do anything first on chat. Like I'm going to think it through.

37:42I'm going to come up with my own shit and I'm going to use chat to make the thing better. You want to preserve your brain cells. I want to preserve my brain cells and I want to preserve my ability to come up with new shit. Totally agree. That's not an idea machine. It's just a betterment machine. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to come up with some good shit and you, Gray and Lola, need to come up with good shit and then you can use AI to check and to make it better and to tighten it up. Sarah's doing it in a different way. It was mad. Well, do you know what? It was mad. I won't judge you on mothering.

38:09I don't care if you do judge me and I don't care if you judge me. I really don't care. I said this on the podcast. I was like, I know I'll be judged for this. I know people are going to have a thing to say that's going to make me look like a bad parent. That's okay. I'm interested in that. Because I do feel like the, well, especially you, Sarah, basically. You've like, you say shit all the time, right? And people come back at you and they're like, oh my God, I can't believe she said this. I can't believe she expressed this view. And I remember a specific conversation with you because our kids go to the same school.

38:37And so we have these things every now and again where you'll text me and be like, what do you think about this? And I'll be like, I don't know, what do you think about it? but you're not one who holds back. Like what happens when you face that backlash, when you get the opinion on your opinion, like how do you deal with that? Look, I'm not going to lie. I think for a bit, I was like, I don't care. Nothing affects me. It's cool to care. You know, I think for a long time, I thought it was really cool to not care. It's not cool to not care. It's cool to care. I do care. I don't want people to not like me.

39:07For sure. I don't. But I, it is very hard for me to not say how I feel. I just got to stay my course. And the second that I start shaping my brand, my persona, my whatever to fix it, you're not going to make anyone happy. I can say one thing and then I'm going to have 10 people go, yes, girl, yes. And then I'll have 20 people be like, she's the worst. I just can't think about it. Are you ask her, do you say, hey, should I post this thing? Should I say this thing? I mean, listen, because we are so enmeshed, because we are so entwined and things are bigger than us. Do you know what I mean? We don't need Netflix coming for us.

39:44We don't need... There have been a few things where I said... Tess like, hey, Sarah, can you take that down, please? Yeah. Can you just simmer down, girl? Yeah, no. You're like, that's my livelihood, Tess. Yeah. So I've written her saying, I gotta say, I gotta say, blah, blah, blah. Maybe it's not the best time. Let's let the Emmy nominations come out. And then I'll post. But for the most part, we really do let each other... I usually just say, If you can just get the grammar correct, then I'm good with you posting whatever you want. Just sell that shit from me. Look, I think I don't connect to people who are so focused on being liked by everybody.

40:20That doesn't connect me to you. It might work for everyone else in this room, but for me, it doesn't make me connect. I'm not going to look at that person and go, you know what? I trust you. I want to buy what you're telling me to buy. I want to go do that thing you're telling me to go do. If you stand for nothing, it's just not for me. Do you think about it in the context though? of your brand? Like, is that part of the authenticity that you're going to say what you think and have those moments of less popularity? Oh yeah. I mean, I think because we're outspoken on certain things, we've lost podcast listeners.

40:49We've lost favorite daughter customers and that's okay. Have you won anything? Have we won anything from that? Has anything come from - I think so. That's a good point. Yeah. I mean, listen, people stop me on the street all the time and they go, I just wanted to say, thank you so much for saying that thing that I think, but I'm too afraid to say. Yeah. That happens to me a lot. And yeah, I mean, I have a lot of Jewish people come up to me and just appreciate support that's unpopular. And it means a lot to them. Erin's a Jewish woman and she's, you know. Converted Jewish woman. Converted. Yeah.

41:21No, I understand that. I mean, I think that when you say something that chimes deeply with people, I have been speaking nonstop in the last few months. And if somebody else feels like, do you know what? they're a three hour mom too, then they will come up to you and they will say, Hey, I can't believe like you said that thing. And that really made me feel seen and it made me feel validated. And I never thought about even moderately saying something for the controversy. And that's really what I'm trying to ask. Like, do you get to the point where you're like, you know what? I'm going to say that thing because actually it's going to increase sales.

41:52That's going to get me visibility. That's like, I wonder if that ever happens that way around. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, by the way. And I think a lot of people do that, but I'm asking like, Like serious stuff. I should probably be more. There's not a lot of strategy going on. Yeah, I'll do. But look, people are addicted to being mad right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that there's a lot of bad things happening in the world. We all know this, right? I think everyone is on high, high, high vibration and not always in a good way. And people are addicted to being mad. I'll catch myself sometimes going down because the algorithm is too smart.

42:24It knows when it's getting us. It's very powerful. It's so powerful. So I'll sit there and I'll scroll. And by the end of it, I'm furious. I want to go fight someone. I'm like, I am so, I get it. And I'm somebody who's even keel. I'm pretty, I'm just saying, I'm not like a psychopath, you know? So I can see myself how I can get, I can see what it does to everyone else who has a smartphone, who has access to all of these apps. But no, I think we're just living our lives as honestly as possible. And however it affects, you know, the bottom line is how it affects it. But it's not something that we - It's less strategic than that.

43:00I'd say there's no strategy. There's no strategy. Yeah. So let's talk about the things that have strategy because you have a lot of success. How do you think about, because again, you do lots of things that are very different. Do you divide and conquer? I want to understand like the crux of your partnership and how you think about the brand versus the fund versus the podcast versus the writing and the show. What does that look like? A lot of dividing and conquering. A lot of dividing and conquering. I was just saying the other day, the way that the name Favorite Daughter came about is so indicative of our partnership, right?

43:32It's just, so here's how it happened. So like 15 years ago, we needed to come up with an LLC for some paperwork with our sisters, right? And Erin didn't even tell anybody. She just went to go sign the papers. This was not an LLC anyone will ever see or know about or anything. And she was like, oh, favorite daughter, right? I don't even think - I just named a favorite daughter because you just needed a name. You could have named it. Well, no, every, you know, our dad would joke with us that each one of us was the favorite when the others weren't around. Everybody's family does that. A joke. You could have named it carpet.

44:03Yeah. No one would have ever known. A little more clever than that. So when it came to the t-shirt collaboration, we were putting 15 different captions, sayings on t-shirts and sweatshirts. Like there were a million. And I said, oh, wait, remember when you did that thing, whatever? That's cute. Should we do favorite daughter on one of the t-shirts? And Erin goes, no. I was like, that's stupid. Erin goes, I was like, it's too cutesy. It's like a little girl. Like, I don't know. It's like for kids or something. We have our edgy queen over here. So funny. Edgy queen. The edgy queen was like, I want it to be like, yeah, I'm going to die with my cats.

44:43Life is miserable. Metal. Metallica. And I was like, I think it's, I think we should do it. And she was like, no. And I was just like, okay, put a little heart on it. And I was like, go to town girl. It was one of 15. How many of those t-shirts? $2 million. That's actually fucking insane. Of the t-shirt. That's insane. Along comes the opportunity to actually create a brand. Tell me you got a lawyer at that point. We did a lawyer. Well, we got a lawyer, but very smart people that we trust very much said, this should be a licensing play. A, this should be a licensing play. Or B, go raise your own money.

45:17Don't give away 50 % of the company in a joint venture off the bus. You can go raise money. 100 % of the people we asked who are in the know told us not to do this. Do not do this partnership with Centric. They said, do not do a 50-50 joint venture.

45:35There's a certain kind of home that just feels calmer and a lot of it comes down to how the kitchen is set up. The tools you cook with, the pieces that you leave out on the counter and the visual noise that you're waking up to every morning. Our place has built a whole brand around getting that just right. The newest release is the 13-piece cookware set, which is a smart way to upgrade the whole kitchen at once. It includes two of their iconic always pans and two perfect pots that replace a full stack of cookware. And they've made it$150 less than buying the pieces individually. So the math works, but the real reason to consider it is that everything actually fits together as one considered system, not a mix of things that you've picked up all over the years.

46:16Our place is a female founded brand designed in Los Angeles with over 80 ,000 five-star reviews. Everything they make is beautiful enough to leave out on your countertop and their cookware has been made without forever chemicals since day one. Upgrade your kitchen with Our Place today. Visit fromourplace.com slash aspire and use code aspire for 10 % off sitewide. That's f-r-o-m-o-u-r-p-l-a-c-e slash aspire and use code aspire for 10 % off sitewide. With a 100-day trial, you can try it completely risk-free. Earlier this summer, I was back home in London for a couple of weeks. It was a bit of everything in the best possible way.

46:55We celebrated my daughter's 10th birthday with family and friends, went to the tennis, even managed to do a few touristy things at the Tower of London and taking my little one to the theatre. I even squeezed in Women's Hour on BBC Radio 4. There were long catch-up dinners with friends and just stretches of lounging around and reading. It was properly hot the whole time, which is not exactly London's speciality, but it did make it feel like summer. And after that, we've headed back to Europe for a longer stretch with the family. Now, between all of it, I've been away from my base for a lot of the summer.

47:25And I know so many of you are doing or have done the same. And that is part of what makes Airbnb so smart. If you're going to be away for a while, listing your space on Airbnb is one of the more useful things you can do at that time. It fits into how you're already living and can even help you bring in some extra income towards future travel. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.

47:52I love a 50-50 joint venture for obvious reasons. Absolutely. Because you've got to know what you don't fucking know. Exactly. Right? It's like you guys knew what you were good at and you could have your partner, I'm assuming, doing all the shit that you don't know. We're not going to move your view right. The entire back office infrastructure belongs to your partner. Correct. And you guys make the creative decisions. We do what we know how to do and they do what they know how to do. We are not in Portugal or Turkey or sourcing new things, moving factories when all the tariffs are happening. We're in the know.

48:23Well, by the way, you and I were texting about tariffs. Yes. So it's not like you're completely out of the... No, no, no. It doesn't mean that we're removed from it. It means the people that we are partnered with have taught us how to function on that side of the business. The business wouldn't exist without this partnership. Has it been a good partnership for you? Incredible. Incredible. Talk to me about the business. Where is the business now? How is it doing? Incredible. I mean, look, we're going to be five and a half years old pretty soon. That went quick, didn't it? Yeah. It feels like it really did.

48:49We're going super hard in growth this year. We want to open more stores. We were always told for so long, don't open stores. We were told for so long, D to C, D to C, own your customer. Do not like have other partners. You have to have almost an equal mix, as my experience. You have to have it for visibility. You have to have it. It's free marketing. I would love to say that it's 70-30, but it's 60-40. I would say 60 for us. 60 for us. But honestly, I think if I'm really honest and I look at the businesses that I'm involved with, the more mature, the more it evens out. Like it starts over here where you're like 90 % D to C and over time it kind of flattens and that's just the way of the world.

49:31And I think if you look at all of those incredible D to C brands that maybe we were envisaging when we started, Everlane, Orbi, like, you know, like all of those companies, It's just like, it isn't what we thought it was going to be. And I think the brands that are winning right now, it's like their distribution. You need the distribution. But also, you know, it's important to say that we didn't start this business and then walk away. We don't let any single piece of this business get away from us. So tell me what it's like working with a partner like this. What's the reality of your business relationship?

50:01What have you given up? What have you won? We haven't had to give up anything. I mean, the truth is they want to make happen what is important to us. And then they teach us what is not possible and what's possible. So we understand the margins. We understand the bottom line. We understand how to make things profitable, but they understand what our wants and needs are. So we don't ever, ever take our eyes off something. So if we say like, we really don't like the idea of that fabric content, or we really don't like the way that that looks, or we really don't like how that fits, or we don't want to go into that category too fast, then they slow down or they speed up.

50:29Then they switch things around. Like they come to us and say - They defer to us on everything. Yeah, they say we need to make two new hires. Are they driving strategy? Both. It's a true JV partnership. It really is. I talked to our CMO five times a day. Amazing. I don't. No, but this is the divide and conquering. So here is the beauty of our partnership is we would not have as many favorite daughter customers if we didn't have Nobody Wants This. So, and there would be nobody, like Erin and I sold Nobody Wants This under a little small production deal that we had at Disney five years ago. It's important to know everyone passed on Nobody Wants This.

51:00We pitched eight things and they were like, it was called Shiksa. It wasn't even called Nobody Wants This and she was going to star in it. So it's like - R.I.P. it all worked out it all worked out no but I think what's really interesting is it was so clear to me how that the vehicle of the show was going to have this like positive effect on the business I think there's a misconception around how much favorite daughter is in Nobody Wants This there is very little favorite daughter in the show I mean there's enough there's enough I think what happened is you two as business women were elevated through the show and all of a sudden it was like oh what else are they doing oh, favorite daughter.

51:38And so I don't look at that product placement. I just think you were credible. Sometimes it's written about that we're smart because we put favorite daughter in Nobody Wants This. And the truth is, I was really careful and it's why I feel like the need to say it is that, you know, there could be a conflict of interest there that I was really mindful of, which is that there is a costume director on the show. She decides, you know, what she thinks all the characters should be wearing. Of course, I make the final decision about what I like. But every single time that I'm sent five look options for every character, for every scene, which I do look at and I do choose.

52:12I know if there's favorite daughter in one of the five. Absolutely. A hundred percent of the time I choose the one that I think that they look best in. And nine times out of 10, that isn't favorite daughter just because that's how it goes. And it doesn't make a difference to me. I always want what's best for the show. So there's no like agenda of pushing things together if they don't naturally fit. I think that's clear. Yeah. It feels really clear. What is the ambition? for the brand? Like I know you say you don't have big strategic plans, but like, is there something that you guys are specifically working towards?

52:44Are you working towards an exit? Are you working to just grow for you? Just trying to take money out of the company every year so you can have a nice life. I mean, look, we want to open, I think we want to have 10 stores. The goal is 10 stores in the next, you know, 18 months. Like we want to go quickly. And we think in categories too, handbags are coming out. Launching handbags. We launched shoes. We have, um, we have other categories that we're working on that we try to roll out slowly and responsibly because sort of to your question of when does it get away from us? The answer hopefully is never because then it won't feel as congruent as it does today.

53:17You know, the reason why the brand feels like us is because we have our hand in everything. And if we let it get away from us and somebody else is making those decisions, I do think that that's when things start to feel like they're making cheaper decisions and that things don't feel as authentic anymore. We don't want it to get away from us. So we really want to keep it in our control as long as possible so that it feels authentic. I also feel like there's some judgment when, and maybe it's just with women, I don't know, but there's judgment around, yeah, I'd love to be acquired. Like there's nothing wrong with being like, I'd love a windfall.

53:47I would love favorite daughter to get acquired one day. That is my main source of income. So I sit here, it's my main source of income. Yeah. I mean, we have obviously other channels, but favorite daughter, that is my main source of income. So favorite daughter is profitable and actually paying you guys. Yes. Yeah. Yes, it is. It has been for like three years. And it has been. We've been profitable for a while, but you know, I, I think it's okay to say, yeah, it would be fantastic. Yeah. One day. Why would it not be okay? What the fuck is the point otherwise? I feel like we vilify founders. I guess, look, we did not.

54:20What are you doing? Like what the love of making? Yeah, this isn't charity. Guess what? I'm not being like, I know disrespect to anything because I make like blue jeans and button-up shirts too. But you're not, do you know what I mean? You're not Christian Dior. You're not doing it for the art form. You're going to build a company. It's going to be really profitable. Hopefully you'll have an exit and you'll have a winful. Like, aren't there wise worlds? No, of course. We want, we would love. We do a lot of charity in our life. This is not charity. That's not the thing. We would love for a favorite daughter to be bought, but I don't think we would want to leave the business.

54:46No. Hypothetically, if somebody came and said, here's X amount of dollars, we want to buy a favorite daughter and we don't need you. I would be like really pretty bummed. No, I'd be so sad. I'd be sitting here with a bigger bank account. It depends how much money I have. Yeah, I mean, if it's a billion dollars, I can get over it. I mean, it really depends. You can feel sad. I can get over it. And then you can be like, oh, I'm happier. Yeah, but like, look, I was aimless for a lot of my life. I was purposeless for a lot of my life. Favorite daughter gives me real purpose. And it feels great to get out of bed with the excitement of what can we do today?

55:20What can we do today to gain one more customer? What can we do today to endear ourselves to the customer that we already have that hasn't shopped for a while? I will call our CMO and I will, I know the name of our top 20 customers. I know their names. I know their occupations. I know where they live. I will call her. I will say, has so-and-so shopped? When was the last time she shopped? Okay, you know what? When is her birthday? I want to send her a gift from me and Erin. Send it to her. Damn right. Like I do this all the time. So I think if I didn't have that. I got into some disagreement about something where she's like, this thing isn't good.

55:53And I was like, no, I think it's good. She goes, oh, really? Well, our number three shopper hasn't shopped in seven months. And she used to buy every single cut of those jeans and she hasn't bought them. And I was like, okay, psych. I was like, you need like a drink. If anything is going to guide you to the truth, it's your top customers. Like when they stop, like the shit, I literally have seen things go in decline. I also, I always look at the staff because I'm like, when your staff stop buying, like when I see staff like purchasing go from one number to this number, I'm like, oh, I'm about to have a shit season.

56:23That's a really good barometer. It's the number one thing because they're getting a discount. I was just going to say, they have a good discount. They don't want it. Oh, shit. Then you're really screwed. It's not good. Then you know you've got a dud of a season. So let's talk about the money because you're doing the most. You're doing a lot of things. Like, where are you making money? You said, yes, you're making money in Favorite Daughter. Podcast. Okay. Podcast. I mean, look, everything we do is generating profit, right? Because like finally, but for so many years, it did not. So podcast, production company.

57:01My favorite daughter, brand deals. But our brand deals, we are now a little bit more careful with. It used to be - Are you 50-50 in everything? Well, production company, we're 50-50. But as a writer, she's got different income. Podcast 50-50. And nobody wants us as different because I have writing fees. Of course. And by the way, as she should. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's crazy. Being a writer is awful. But everything else is 50-50. But we do other things. She's on the board of the EWG. I'm the face of Bobby Brown Cosmetics. Like we do different things. So you do a deal over there with Bobby Brown.

57:36That money's going to you. You're sitting on a board and you're being, you know, remunerated for that. That's going to you. Everything else is 50-50. But then I'm on the phone with Greg Renfro going, Erin should be the face of counter beauty products. Like you should, she's the perfect face for you. I love that she's out here pitching you. Don't you love her for that? What's good for Erin is good for me. And what's good for me is good for Erin. But Sarah's more motivated by money than I am. No shit. Yeah. Well, Erin has a husband And you do longer have a husband Erin is in a dual income household I am in a different financial situation I also have the feeling And she makes more money as a writer No doubt But I also have the feeling That you are just more motivated by money Regardless Yeah, I think that's true And I say you take one to know one So I'm just saying it I think because of my scarcity mindset I always feel like I'm going to have nothing Fair enough I mean, you guys meet a lot Because I wasn't different before I was married To be clear I think I get that from you guys just as like the default who you are.

58:34By the way, I forced her to write nobody wants this. I was like, bitch, typey, typey. Yeah, that's true. What are you doing? Get out of it, girl. No, literally, I'm like, where are the pages? Because once I got married, I did sort of think like, honestly, I'm good. No, I'm literally like, I'm kind of good to just chill. I was like, Erin, Disney is paying us. We are in an overall deal at Disney. That means they pay us to generate content. We have no content. I was like, write a show. I feel like Britney Spears sometimes. She's just making me work. I want to understand what you think that women get consistently wrong about money that perhaps men don't.

59:15Oh, God. I think that what women don't know about money that men do is that you deserve to have it. Actual factual facts. Yeah, I think there's a lot of like, apologizing around wanting to get paid for something. And there shouldn't be. Like you were saying, it's okay to want your business to succeed. It's okay to want to make money off of something that doesn't literally. It's okay to charge for shit. It's okay to be paid and enumerated for your services. Men are very comfortable asking for what they think that they're worth. And what do you think the reason for that is? I think it's taught at a really young age.

59:46I mean, we're all responsible now with daughters and sons to teach us, to teach our kids something different. Don't you also feel like, you know, the joke, like all the big deals are done on the golf course. all my male friends who are in finance or investors or private equity or whatever, they all bring each other in on all the deals. If there's an SPV, if there's an allocation into like a friends and family IPO, they bring all their friends, all their male friends. I don't know. I don't have - Every moment we like close the door behind us. I don't have that many women. There's also a scarcity mindset where we feel like there's only one availability, right?

1:00:23There's only one spot. And listen, for so long, that has been the truth. And so I understand why women feel like that. But I actually think that it just takes a shift in behavior. I'm getting all this credit for being healthy around my money mindset, but it just made me think that when nobody wants us hit big, and then I was offered a bigger overall deal, my first thought was, I don't want my friends to find out how much money I just made. It's not that I didn't. I was like, well, I'm going to tell him. And I didn't, she's going to tell him anyway. You might as well take it. Don't worry. But it's not that I didn't think someone would be happy for me, anything like that.

1:00:57It just felt like, I don't know. It's easy to be happy for your friend when they're down or when they're struggling or they just came up. But if they really come into money, I don't know. Maybe it shifts how people interact with you or how they feel towards you. And I didn't want any negativity around it. And so I kind of wanted it to be under the radar. It's true. You didn't tell anybody. People were like, what did she just make? I was like, don't ask her. Okay. That's so funny. Because I tell everybody. Really? Yes. You have to remember, like I come from, like I come from a place where money was spoken about with ease, right?

1:01:34Like when you don't come from a lot, it's almost the opposite. You're like telling everybody what you have all the time, even when you don't have it. So I have an ease of speaking about money. But what happens when you don't talk about money, when you avoid the subject of money, the money avoids you. And so what I realized is the minute you start speaking about it, the minute you're forthright with what you want, the minute you say the fucking number, like it attracts it to you. And I don't mean in some woo-woo way. I mean, you asked for something, you were clear about it. And it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you've got to say it.

1:02:05Like you literally have to say, oh, I made X. And by the way, the next time you go and speak to X, Y, and Z studio, like you need to ask for that and you should probably use this lawyer to do it. By the way, I paid them X to do my deal. I love that you do that. Yeah, you don't gape. That's really great. I'm the least gatekeeper-y person. You know, when you say that the way you grew up is a part of the reason, I think when you grow up, I know, when you grow up the way that we did, there is a lot of resentment around you being the girl that has money or access to things or a nicer car or a nicer house.

1:02:37And so at least my instinct was always like sort of hide it a little bit. Because I want them to like me. I do think that there's like a thing though where people feel like people that, and you're going to deal with this with your kids and I'll deal with it with mine and you, where it's almost like, well, you don't deserve it because you were raised in private. So you don't deserve it. I do think that we have dealt with a lot of people feeling that we don't deserve the success we have because of the privilege that we grew up in without people even having a fucking clue on how we grew up. We grew up very different than people assume we grew up.

1:03:11But how does that make you, like genuinely now as you sit here, with the success that you've had, knowing the work that you put in. And I know you, I know that you both work extremely hard because I've never seen you not working, not chasing something. And so what, like, how do you actually feel about that now? Like, are you at the point where you're like, I don't give a shit? Or are you still somewhat hiding and somewhat apologizing? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to not compare yourself to other people. We're human and it is hard to not look at other people going, why don't they get, Why is there no stigma around them?

1:03:44We do feel like there are a lot of people in this industry who are doing a tenth of what we're doing and never get called out for having a famous parent. And that is weird to us. We catch more strays than other people. And I don't know why, because we're doing a lot. I think people act like our dad is like Brad Pitt or something. Our dad is like a behind the scenes musician who is wildly talented and works for everything he has. But I guess there's a part of us that feels like we have had to be sort of elite in everything we've done to be taken seriously. We're not in music. It's not like we're following in someone's footsteps.

1:04:18But I ask myself a lot often, you know, what is that? And in some ways, I think our resistance to it attracts it. You know, the fact that it bothers us only draws it closer. And that's something that just like we have to figure out. I was thinking about the other day. I was like, even at 16, right? When most 16 year olds would want to like be on TV, right? Like there was our dad and they had a reality show. And even at like 16 years old, we were like, we don't want to be on a reality show. You're like, that's not our part. Let's do it different. By the way, being on reality TV, that is amazing for so many people.

1:04:48Like that is, there's no shade on that. By the way, we look back and we're like, we probably should have done that. We just thought that people wouldn't take us seriously if we went down that path. And now reality stars are taken really seriously and we're called someone's daughter and it sucks. What do you actually want someone to know who had a different start to you guys? About us? What do you say? Well, it's a twofold question, actually. What do you want them to know about you? But also, what would you say to a woman that actually feels resentful? Of course. Absolutely. Because you must get that all the time.

1:05:18Oh, cute clothing company. You know, my dad, I don't have a dad that can buy me a clothing company. Yeah, I mean. Look, I think that relationships are more important than we talk about. I think that, and Erin always says this again, I don't think you came up with it, but like follow your envy, right? No, I did not come up with it. No, I know what I'm saying. It's a good one. I'm thinking like Glennon Doyle made it. It's such a good one. You have to follow your jealousy for sure. Yes, you have to follow it. I spent a lot of time looking at what other people were doing, feeling jealous or looking at other people being like, well, why don't I have that?

1:05:51Or why can't I make it an acting? Or why can't I? And it does nothing but just block your blessings. The universe does not reward that mentality. So I do think that to the person listening, I think that person that you might be jealous of or that person that is doing way better than you at the office or better than you at the company, endear yourself to that person. I think find that person and say, I want to learn from you. You can't replace showing up and wanting to connect with other people. Like that's irreplaceable. Like I don't want to hire the Wharton, you know, graduate who comes and sits in front of me and has no personality.

1:06:29No, I know he's being honest. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in being around the person who sits there and might say, I'm not the most qualified for this. I know you're going to meet other people that are going to be way better for this, but I'm going to tell you why I'm of value. And that's the person that I'm like way more endeared to. So I think if you were listening, I think everything is at our disposal now. We have social media. We have YouTube. We have TikTok. We have all these things. I get way less views than some like random mom that does has no connections, whose dad isn't in the music business.

1:06:59She's crushing way harder than I am on TikTok. Like, I don't know. I also think that to that person who might feel that way, I think it's a natural instinct to put ourselves in the inferior position and somebody else in the power position, right? Like you girls are sitting here and you have all this and I have nothing or I want those things and you don't deserve it or I don't want you to have it because it's taking it away from me or I deserve it. And I can only call it back to the thing we were talking about earlier where I couldn't get pregnant for seven years and there was everyone else around me is getting pregnant.

1:07:32Yeah. Your success is not my failure. And I never felt like a victim. And because of that, I don't sit here today and define myself by my worst experience. I'm not melodramatic about it because I don't want my story to be 20 rounds of IVF. That's just one thing that happened. But also all these amazing, beautiful things have happened in my life. And I think that we all get stuck really leaning on the story that victimizes ourselves and decide that that's who I am. So I think the person who's listening to that might be putting themselves lower than us. And it's easy to feel resentful, but like you should not look at yourself that way.

1:08:17Something worth appreciating about right now is how much has changed for anyone thinking about starting a business. Now, 20 years ago, launching something meant physical infrastructure, large upfront capital, and figuring out most of the operational side without much guidance. Now today, the entire path has been rebuilt. You can start from anywhere, at almost any budget, with tools that used to only exist inside larger companies. Shopify is one of the biggest reasons that that's true. It's the platform that we run Good American on and the one I trust any time that I'm building something new. Now what I appreciate is that it doesn't just give you a store, it gives you a whole operating system.

1:08:57Your storefront, your customer data, your inventory, your payments, all in one place. Now, that kind of consolidation used to be a real barrier to entry, and it just isn't anymore. The AI tool sidekick is the piece that I'd point new founders to first. It handles the operational work that usually slows people down so you can stay focused on the parts of the business that only you can do. Take advantage of the fact that this is the easiest time to start your business in history. Head on over to shopify.com slash Aspire and do something that millions of people wish they could have done. Something I've always believed in is that the biggest changes in life don't actually come from grand decisions.

1:09:37They come from the small ones, the ones you make every day, what you eat, how you move, how you spend the first hour of your morning. Those tiny choices compound into who you become over time. That's been the case for me with my businesses and with my own life. And when I look at any of it, the big results were really the sum of a hundred small, boring decisions made consistently. Showing up and not skipping the obvious thing because it didn't feel exciting. The same is true for the food that I'm reaching for between meetings or during a busy stretch. The way I think about it is simple. The healthier choice has to be easier than the unhealthy one.

1:10:15Otherwise, it just doesn't happen. If I'm in a hurry and I have to hunt for something good, I'm reaching for whatever is closest. So I try to set up the environment around me so the good choice is the convenient one. Most people aren't going to fix their nutrition by doing a complete lifestyle overhaul. The change that actually sticks is a small, easy swap. The one thing that you're ready to do every day replaced with something better. And that is where Stars and Honey comes in. The founders started Stars and Honey after tasting basically every protein bar on the market and realizing that consumers were still settling.

1:10:50Some bars had decent macros, but the flavor wasn't there. Others tasted great, but the ingredient list wasn't holding up. So they went and built the bar they wish existed themselves. Stars and Honey makes protein bars with thoughtfully sourced whole ingredients. The flavor holds up without the chalky protein powder aftertaste that you get from a lot of bars. The ingredient list holds up too. They're free from sugar, alcohols, gluten, and seed oils. Each bar has 15 grams of protein and only four grams of sugar, so you don't have to choose between nutrition and flavor. They're also easy to digest, which matters when you're moving for a busy day and you don't want to feel weighted down right before a meeting or a workout.

1:11:32That's the kind of swap that compounds. Not a dramatic overhaul, not a new lifestyle, a better version of something that you are going to do anyway. Now, trying Stars and Honey is easier and more convenient than ever. Stars and Honey protein bars are now available at Target stores nationwide. Pick up a box during your next Target shopping visit.

1:11:57When this is like something I think about when I think of you two all the time, like when honesty and authenticity is your brand. And so defining of the way you do business and the way that you've found success and the way that you show up every day. Like, is there a difference between like just being honest and being who you are and the idea of like having to perform that to stay consistent with what it is that you're doing and how you're becoming successful? That's so interesting. I feel like we're at this sort of inflection point with the brand and with the podcast and with everything because things are changing so fast.

1:12:32Discoverability is changing. How are, you know, it's like, I think we wrestle all the time because we don't have like a social media team. Aaron's not on TikTok. I have like four followers on TikTok. I post like once a year. Like, I think that we struggle or I know I struggle with this thing of like, wait a minute, we need to be out there more and we need to be more highly produced and we need to be more professional and we need to have more of a social presence. And, but it's not authentic to me. But that says so much about the certainty of like, and the clarity of who you are, right? That this, you know, you started this conversation by saying that you had a lot of insecurity.

1:13:08day. That's actually the opposite of that. That's like a self-possession that you have. That's like really clear about what you shouldn't be doing. No, but I wrestle, I do wrestle with, and then I go back to, okay, but if we, if I start doing TikToks, people are going to see right through that. I mean, I post on TikTok occasionally, but if I start doing this thing that I think people want from us, then I think it, I don't know that it would resonate with, I don't know that it would do what I'm hoping it would do. Yeah. Or I also think because there's just a cost to anything that doesn't feel right.

1:13:42It's like incongruent. No, I'm launching, I'm launching like this thing sort of Q1 next year. And I looked into what it would cost. I'm so glad you brought that up. I kind of got the feeling. Are you launching some kind of like, um, what did I get when I read it? Like a one skew. Like a vitamin wellness situation. Yeah. I love that. By the way, That was not born out of me being like, I need to be the founder of another company. This was born out of, it's the thing that I do every single morning. It's the thing that didn't exist. I was on my way to the airport, literally Googling all the ingredients that I take in one, thinking like, I'm just going to buy it because I need it.

1:14:18Because it's missing from my life and it didn't exist. And I called my business partner, Phil, and I go, but I think I need to spin this up. Like, what would it cost? Like how much we can invest, my fund can invest, your fund can invest. I think we need X amount of dollars. I think we could do this for like a million and a half dollars. Like what, do we want to hire somebody who's like a crazy P &L monster that can run the crap out of a P &L? Do we need a mass marketer? Like, what do we need? You can do so much with AI now. I mean, you can create an entire business plan on AI. I mean, we created the entire, just like on, yeah.

1:14:52But I think it's good for you to say that because that's accessible to so many people, right? I did the entire thing on chat. The entire thing. And when you're launching when? Q1. And you raised 1.5? Yeah. Yeah. Can't do that on chat. You can't. And look, it could be nothing or it could be something. No, but I mean, you make it look like a real brand. I mean, Sarah said this thing to me. I'm like, who made this? And it's like, ChatGPT made it. No, I did. I did everything. I mean, I have no doubt. I do think that there is... All the branding and all that. Yeah, but there's something so amazing about the fact that that was just not possible.

1:15:28Right? Because at the end of the day, you could have done that whole thing on ChatGPT. I'm sure you could, you know, you guys are used to starting things at such a level now. I'm sure you don't need 1.5 million. You could launch it in a different way, in a different, you know, landscape, whatever it might be. Look, I need to hire a great CEO and a great CEO costs money. Because you're at a level now where whatever you do, there is an expectation around it. Do you know what I mean? It's going to have visibility. You have big ambitions for it. There's so many different ways to start a business. And I think that really trying to utilize like what is out there now and what's the uniqueness of the time that we're living in and what does that enable you to do is the surefire way everyone's going to be able to start things.

1:16:08And how you find your customer. I was thinking the other night, I was like, I'm not on TikTok. This business is going to fail. I was like, I don't, I don't. So I have so many insecurities still, you know, of course, even around doing this, I'm still going like, Like, oh God, how embarrassing if I make it a big thing. And then like, you know, everyone has all these high expectations. Like, oh, you have a following. So it's going to do, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that. That is not, those days are long over. Let's attach a celebrity. I'm not referring to myself as a celebrity, but and then all of a sudden you have a brand.

1:16:39No, no, no, no, no. Doesn't work anymore. So what even gives you, and I give this question to both of you. What even are you thinking about as next for yourself? of like, what are you aspiring to specifically for this brand, but also like more broadly in your life, in your career now? Everything. I mean, I would say we're really excited about this. We have a bunch of shows, other shows in development that has it... Destination Wedding was announced. Who bought Destination Wedding? They also bought two of our other projects. So I'm writing another show on the break right now. We've optioned a couple of books.

1:17:16We've optioned a few books that have been bought. Oh, I heard. You optioned Tink's book, right? Yeah. And then we optioned another novel that's kind of like a sexy, sexy hour long mystery. Really sexy mystery. Which we have a fantastic writer who is writing it. Yeah. Look, I think Favorite Daughter is so exciting, obviously. I think you don't want to wait too long if you want to be acquired, right? Like I think a lot of brands find themselves in that situation where you've waited too long. No man's land, you're out. You're out, right? If you get too big, people aren't, they're like, what are we going to do with you?

1:17:49Exactly. So I think... I mean, there's not a lot of buyers even when you don't get big. It's a fucking tough space. It isn't what it was 10 years ago. Let's just be fair about that. To be clear, the audience should know that Sarah asked Emma if she was willing to buy a favorite daughter before you started your relationship. I was like, Emma, Venmo me. She said no. Emma, talk to Sheehan. They seem to be buying things right now. No, thank you, Sheehan. Would that be out of your ethics? It's not even in the conversation. Guys, this would be a problem. Everlane, I'm really disappointed in Everlane.

1:18:19It's really sad. Oh, shots fired. Why? Take the money. Oh, I love this. Go on. Have to. No. Go. Do not take that money. You would not take that money. But you don't know what the circumstances of those founders are. Who knows? I know I wouldn't take that money. I would not take anybody doing that kind of fast fashion. No. It's making the world a worse place. I could not participate in that. Wow. We're going to have a problem. I'm just kidding. I have a meeting with the C. Who's she? We're going to have a favorite daughter. We split it all. And there is the split. and that was the last time they ever seen together.

1:18:55She and Split the Sisters. I absolutely love it. Erin, what are you aspiring to? I just really aspire to balancing it all. I'm really, really in my mom and wife era, and I really love the opportunity. Erin wants to compost. That's what she wants to do. Yeah, I want to just make sourdough bread from scratch. I think success, like real, real success, is having a really strong home life and a really strong professional life and them working well together. I want to put my daughter to bed at night. I want to give her a bath and I want to make my husband dinner and like meet his friends and go on work trips with him and him come to events for me and us be proud of each other.

1:19:34And I want to have the full scope. I don't want to have a life that is so skewed in one area that everything else suffers. I really don't. No, I love that. Aaron's like, I want to be a trad wife. She loves it. But that's not also what she's saying because you're saying that you actually want a big professional life, but you place an enormous amount of value on your family life. I think that I would mirror that exactly. I'm just interested how you're doing that and what it actually looks like right now. Like, are you figuring that out? What it really looks like is that I'm really honest with the people that I work with that that's a huge priority to me.

1:20:09And I don't want to feel embarrassed to say, guys, I'm not going to get on that call because I want it's bath time. Or worse than that, or better than that, depending on how you look at it. If I get a text for work or a call at eight o 'clock at night and I'm in bed with my husband and we're watching Love Island, then I'm going to say to them, guys, I'm in bed with my husband watching Love Island and we can do this tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. Because that's important to me. I want to laugh with my husband and eat frozen yogurt in bed and like watch TV together and talk about bad reality shows. And like, that's how I connect.

1:20:40And are you in the position right now with everything that you have going on and all the ambition and all the opportunity that everything is bringing you that you can say no to that call at eight o 'clock in bed. At 43, she can finally after all these years. Like it's important, I think, for the audience to know that your life has never been like that. So because of your grit and conviction and hard work, you are now finally, because I just don't want people to think that that, because that is not the mindset you should have. Because 10 years ago, you perhaps say that wasn't your choice. Yeah, I mean, I would have loved to have had that, of course, but no, I couldn't do that.

1:21:14I mean, I remember when I was writing pilots that's in my thirties and I would be writing all day back and forth, back and forth. Then I'd be like, okay, I'm going to go to a yoga class. You know, I'm going to like try to protect my peace. And I remember one specific time I like roll out my yoga mat and I got a call that was like, the studio needs a new pages. And I was like, okay, I'll do it in the morning. And they were like, roll up your little thing and get back in the car and go home. You're going to do it tonight. And I was like, oh, right. I work for you. You don't work for me. Like I'm on your time, your timeframe on my own.

1:21:42And so, yeah, it is a privilege to be able to have a balance, But I also think that we live in a culture where it's like you brag about how little sleep you get and how, you know, you're at the office till midnight. And I just don't want to be - I am that deeply unfashionable now. Like I don't see that that is - Our writer's room runs from 10 to three. And that's something that actually Jenny Connor taught me, which I'm really grateful for because she said, you do not need to have a writer's room that goes longer than 10 to three. Nothing is getting solved at six o 'clock at night where everyone's sick of being with each other and they want to be at home.

1:22:13And so having a happy work environment where you respect each other's time and you put in like a condensed amount of time where you're really focused, no one's leaving for the doctor's appointments. No one's going and taking phone calls. No one's like checking Instagram because you're locked in for the short period of time. Yeah. And so I'm into being productive in spurts of time, but like letting yourself have a life. That's how that Bill Ackman school, you know, the alpha school, have you heard about that? Yes, I have. That is their sort of philosophy is you go super hard for three hours, three hours of undivided, locked in attention, and then you're off.

1:22:50I also think as female founders and executives and leaders and all of the rest of it, you have to create the conditions that you want to like grow, right? It's like, it's down to you to say, this rider's room is 10 till three, because I want to create the conditions, not just for myself, but for every other rider to be able to leave if they're a parent and go and do bath and bedtime. And I think that the minute you do that, you allow those conditions to permanate through the company, through the writer's room, through whatever it is that you're doing. But not everybody can live like that, you guys.

1:23:24No, of course not everybody, but it is a balance. There is a point at which that becomes your reality, but it's also a choice, right? Because it's like, I could be in my office every day till 10 o 'clock. Like, it's just a choice. But it's also, it's - You work for yourself. You work for yourself so you can create that. You sacrifice a lot to be able to have these choices. I wasn't with my daughter on her second birthday. I had to be in New York for the show. I didn't have a choice. Nobody cared that it's my daughter's birthday. That's where I have to be. And that's the sacrifice I make so that I can also say I want to be at bath time.

1:23:57There are a lot of things that I have to miss. There's a lot of times that she's crying and I'm walking out the door because I have to start a meeting. But that's a really important part. And I think that's the bit to share because you make choices, but it doesn't mean that every choice you make fits and suits your agenda. I leave the office every fucking day at five, but still there are times when I don't get to do what it is that I want to do. Yeah, but were you leaving the office at five, 10 years ago? No. Are you fucking crazy? You were there probably till midnight. Till, like, no. Like, no, absolutely not.

1:24:25Absolutely not. So it's a give and take. It's like, we have these all-consuming careers. We have, we sacrifice a lot to do that. And then in return, we're able to set some parameters so that we can live peacefully. And that's what you aspire to. Yes. You're living your dream. Like you are now living your dream a lot. I mean, she was working at Free People as a shopkeeper right before you got the Ryan Murphy job at 28 years old. Like it's not, she was literally working at the Brentwood Free People where all of her friends and peers would come in at 28 years old. So I just think people look at us and I just don't think they see the full picture of how it's been.

1:25:02Are you living the life that you always wanted to, the pair of you? I definitely am. I didn't see myself being 45, two kids. A, I really just didn't ever think I'd be successful. I think like when you're an actress and a model, putting yourself in a place to just be treated like such shit, you know what I mean? The rejection should be studied, like what it does to you. What it does to your mental state, what it does to your self-esteem, what it does to all of it should be studied. It's so toxic. And I think it's, and by the way, no one forced me to do it. Let's be clear. This isn't like poor me.

1:25:38I chose, nobody asked me to do it. You know, in fact, they were like, we actually don't want you to do it. We have no, yeah, we have no work for you. But I think, I never imagined that we would have the career, the career that we have. I did not. I've never been the most spiritual, but I am now. I thank the universe every day for things that I don't have yet. And I've been doing that for two years. And it's like, I'll be driving or I'll wake up or, and I'll thank the universe for, and I'll be specific. as to what you were just saying, really specific. And it's amazing how the universe rewards that.

1:26:15You know, closed mouths don't get fed. So I just, I ask for things that I don't even think are possible. Oh, I love that. All right, on that note, I'm going to move to some rapid fire. Oh, great. Okay. All right, in one word, what is your sister's biggest strength? Oh, her work ethic. Sarah? Her writing. Wait, professionally, right? What have you won? Yeah. Well, she's a fantastic mom and aunt. So if we're going to like go that, like truly, I think Josie, my, you know, Josie, I think Josie's like, I think I want Erin to be my mom. And that's okay. I'm happy with that. I'm happy with that. She's very maternal.

1:26:53She's very maternal. What is your most recent hot take? Oh, Jesus. Oh, God. I don't think that. All of Sarah's takes are hot. I don't, I don't know. Is that, is it appropriate? Yes. It's a recent hot take. Oh, God. What? I see so many every day of my life is a hot take literally I said recently men shouldn't wear Birkenstocks that was a real hot take oh oh god does Jens wear a Birkenstocks no Jens doesn't have the feet for a Birkenstock I'm not like you know he's not a Birkenstock and crock man he's like a euro guy you know yeah yeah yeah like a loafer sensible guys if you want to know the hot takes listen to our podcast listen there you go plug it in ditch Emma's podcast she's got enough listeners she ditched that you're worn over yeah Move on.

1:27:34Move on over to hear Sarah talk some more shit. World's first podcast. Emma's doing great. All right. We need you. What is a brand you wish you'd invested in, but you missed? Okay. I know mine. I think. Oh, there's a new water company called Lunen that I wish we'd invested. We still can. And also Chamberlain Coffee. We passed on. Oh, Emma. I just had her on. And I think that I wish we, because they're opening a lot of stores. Yeah. It's doing well. They really are. It's doing well. I met the shop, my founders, early. Ah. I met Alexa Von Tobel, brought them, introduced us. And the valuation was already so out of this world, but I still wish.

1:28:11It would have been great to just be in their world. It's so directly connected to what we do. We utilize Shop My at Favorite Daughter. Yeah, so much. So much. And I spoke to them so early and I just sort of felt like, I always try as an investor to not get enticed by sexy cap tables and buy. I tried for so long, it was like, well, let's just write a check, even though the valuation is totally outside of our mandate. So you're really bad at rapid fire. Oh, sorry. No, no, no. I'm really bad at rapid fire too. I don't know. I just... You should have been in shop, Mai. I know. And I could have been.

1:28:43And I wish I was. I mean... I wish we were. Can you tell us anything about season three of Nobody Wants This? Everyone dies. I'm in it. I love that you're in it. That's kind of my big. Yeah, that's my big. No, and she's really good. You should act more. Yeah, she is really good. I play like a crazy girl. name Nicole. So she's not really acting. Yeah. She's playing herself. Is there a book that changed your life? Ooh, I don't know that this one changed my life, but there's a book called Write It Down, Make It Happen. And it taught me how valuable and powerful pen to paper is. Your notes app is fine, but it is not doing what pen to paper does and that you can truly create the life you want, hand to paper.

1:29:28I have literally with specificity been, I have been the architect of where I am now. I never thought it was possible. I didn't think it would actually come true, but looking back at some of the old journals and the things that I prayed for and the things that I was too afraid to write because they seemed too far-fetched, I wrote, but I would say that book taught me how to manifest. I love that. Yeah. As a writer, I would say there's a lot of books that you have your answer. Thank you. Oh, sorry. Jesus. Sarah, as a writer, there's a lot of books that have changed my life because they're like, it's storytelling, you know?

1:30:06So The Fountainhead for sure changed my life because I was like, holy shit. It's so long. It was how you write a story like this. All like Ken Follett books, like it got me so wrapped up in like historical fiction, which made me like want to be a writer. Honestly, this is so silly, but memoirs of a gay show when I was like in like 10th grade, I was like, wait, I love this story. Like all of these stories made me like the prophet. These are books that just made me go like, could I ever make somebody feel something like this? Like, could I ever tell a story this way? The prophet, Kahil Gibran, the prophet?

1:30:40Yeah, like decent. No, obviously my writing is nothing like that, but it was still - No, but that's so interesting that that's informed the fact that you wanted to be a storyteller. Very much. Because you're, because he was giving you life, he is giving you life lessons in the form of a story. So it's like very subtle the way that you absorb it. But also in such a poetic way that that's like really interesting. Exactly. We're so different. I'm like, have you read Ray Dalio's book? Oh my God. We're so different. It's one of my favorite books. Aaron's literally like, principles is one of my favorite books.

1:31:04Aaron's literally like, who's Ray Dalio? No, but I love that. I know, but I'm so, I love principles. By the way, between Ray Dalio and Tahil Gabrón, There you go. There you get me. There you go. I'm like the little bridge. There you go. Okay, you know what? We'll have lunch too. Fucking hell. You're not invited now. Yeah. You absolutely are. Damn it. I love the pair of you. Thank you, Beyond. Thanks for having us. You two are just fabulous.

1:31:30If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. A Spy with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese-Dennis. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado.

1:32:09Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. that's Aspire A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed or you can submit a question to me on my website emmagreed.me

1:32:50I've realized lately that the products I use every single morning genuinely affect how I feel for the rest of the day if something feels heavy greasy overly makeup-y or complicated I just stop reaching for it that's why I've been loving Primally Pure's new sun serum tinted SPF. It gives mineral SPF 30 protection and enough coverage to make my skin look even and healthy, but it still looks like my skin. It has this really fresh, lived-in glow, and their lip and cheek tint has become one of those products I keep throwing on throughout the day because it makes me look instantly more awake and put together in like 10 seconds.

1:33:25The whole vibe just feels very effortless. Skin first, clean girl beauty, products that enhance your skin. If you've been wanting your routine to feel lighter, simpler, and more natural this summer, definitely check out Primally Pure's Sun Serum and Lip and Cheek Tints.