Mel Robbins: The One Thing That Actually Matters

27:08Oh yeah. You will burn yourself alive with jealousy if you don't understand the nature of it. Anybody that you're jealous of, whether you're jealous of their kitchen or you're jealous of their marriage or you're jealous of their podcast or you're jealous of their new makeup line or you're jealous of whatever it may, follow the jealousy. Because no other person can take the things that are meant for you. If you can remove the emotion and channel it in the right direction, jealousy is a directional tool that is trying to get your attention to say, hey, hey, hey, move toward this, move toward this.

27:45And so when you recognize that people that you're slightly jealous of are your greatest teachers, because they're leading you towards something that's meant for you because jealousy is personal. And so I'm going to take you all the way to the origin of the podcast. I got my start in the podcast business in 2008. Well, not because I did a podcast, because they had a Saturday morning local radio show in Boston where I was being paid$25 an hour and I needed the money. We were 800 grand in debt. That radio show was a lifeline. My core value was security and safety. I took every job I could possibly find so I could pay those bills and put groceries on the table.

28:28And when I took that call on radio show job, I fell in love with talking to people. And here's the thing I learned from that job because everything you've ever done is leading you somewhere. And every job, every experience, every failure, every relationship is teaching you something if you're willing to look for it. And that job in 2008 taught me, number one, that the secret to radio is understanding the magic is one-to-one and the intimacy of it. People take you in their cars. They play you in their homes. If they listen to talk radio, they are listening to you as if it's a conversation. It's never everybody out there.

29:12It's the one person here. The second thing that it taught me is the absolute magic of ad-supported content. Now, I wasn't thinking like this then. I was like, I need money for groceries tonight. I'm going to host that radio show. Here we go. Whatever I can get. Yes. But then, wait a minute. The local dentist, shout out Dr. Ronkin, who was advertising on the thing. If I read his ads, he'd pay for my kids' braces. And so I understood the beautiful relationship between the advertisers that show up to support a show so that the show can become free. And that was the beginning of my love of audio. I went on to get an audition for a Sunday night radio show in Atlanta that paid a little bit more money.

29:55So then I had two radio shows. Then I got an audition for the five day a week show in Orlando. And I was like the midday, I would say sanity reset between a lot of very conservative talk folks. I was like the person that was not doing conspiracy theory stuff. I was just talking about breaking news. I was taking calls. And then all of a sudden, Trayvon Martin was murdered. I'm a criminal defense attorney. I was so horrified by what had happened. Stand Your Ground is the most unconstitutional racist law that has ever been passed. And I started covering that case every day on that radio. and the trial, it went to trial.

30:37They asked me if I would sit in the courtroom because they were the pool feed. Now, Mark, I can't remember what year this was, but this was still when I have $800 ,000 liens on the house. I'm not looking to do anything. I'm using my five second rule, five, four, three, two, one, to keep pushing forward and pushing forward and pushing forward. And I sit in that courtroom every day. What a travesty of justice that case was. and at the end of that case, I was awarded the Gracie Award for Outstanding News Talk Show Host of the Year and CNN called and offered me a job. And it's like brick by brick by brick by brick.

31:18Then I leave radio because I'm on television and I do that for four years. And meanwhile, keynote speaking is taking off. And so I'm still working three or four jobs. Like I'm, you know. And any, like, when's the money start coming? When do you start getting into a place where you're like, oh, that's a nice fee for this, like, speech I'm about to do? Well, the first time I ever got paid, it was 2013. And I... It's not that long ago. Yeah, no shit. And so it was 2013. And we still have liens. My husband's left the restaurant. Like, he's a shell of himself. And I have a full-time job at CNN. And I'm starting to get asked to do keynote addresses on the side.

32:01Okay. So you're starting to get recognized for your talent. You're starting for people to understand. Sort of. She speaks. Yeah, she's got something to talk about. She's got this five second thing. She's got a TEDx talk that has a million views. Let's get her to the thing. Okay. So for a year, I gave seven talks for free. Oof. At conferences. You did? Women's conferences. Okay. And you did the legwork. Uh-huh. And then someone says they're going to pay you. Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no. I'm like, get me through the money, Mel. No, because this is advice for you. You have to do it for free. You got to get in there.

32:32You got to do the legwork. You have to do whatever it takes. Work the 15 jobs. Do the thing you want to do for free until you get so sick of doing it for free that you start to resent the people who are asking you to do it for free. And so what happened to me is 2013, I give a talk. I'm at the end of the hallway. I'm hoping people will walk all the way down from the main session. I got a hundred chairs, whatever. I do a great job. and you do a great job at what you're doing right now. Don't you think you're giving very unpopular advice right now? People don't like working for free. I worked for free for so long, Mel.

33:07I lived in a fashion cupboard at every PR agency in the whole of London for a very, very long time. If you don't do it for free, you don't want it. All the free things. You don't want it. And is that the advice you give now? You would tell people, do some stuff for free? Absolutely. If you have an interest in doing something and you have no experience in it, do it for free. Experiment. See if you actually even like it. I thought I wanted to own a bakery. I really did. Until I got a job working in a bakery and I woke up at 4.30 and I was making carrot muffins and filling up the sugar and wiping up.

33:38No, what I realized is, whoa, I don't want to smell like carrot muffins and have these hours. I want to be the person in the bakery that has a little bit of time to be able to have a meeting. And I want the community that comes. See, everything is teaching you something. Everything is teaching you a little something. You're taking smitches. So take me back to the corridor because I want to know this. Somebody comes up to me after the speech and says, oh my gosh, you were great. Can I ask you a question? I spoke in the morning and I just had a question speaker to speaker. I said, yeah. She goes, did you get your check yet?

34:05I said, check. And there was this really awkward pause. And I said, you got paid for this? And she said, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I just assumed you. And people get paid for this? And it was this huge wake-up call. And this is something I want you to hear. Like you look at people that are doing the thing you want to do and you assume that it's only people like that that get paid for this. And you have to take responsibility at some point for understanding that nobody is going to actually pay you what you're worth unless you start asking for it. And I didn't know what to charge. MS. So here's another takeaway.

34:54If you don't know what to charge, this is what you're going to do. I was like, well, I don't know what to charge. I'm not a celebrity. I don't have a book. I don't like, you know, what am I doing? I like, and if people actually knew my bank account and knew the state of my life, I wouldn't be hired to do anything. And plus when you're that in debt, you don't feel worthy of money. Yeah. And I didn't, I just knew I needed it. But that feeling hasn't stayed with you. Surely. Oh no, I know my value now. And so here's what you're going to do. Here's the best hack on the planet. I didn't know what to charge.

35:22If you don't know what to charge for your service or for the thing that you're going to do, here's what you're going to say. The next time you're talking to somebody about it, you're going to just pause and say, what's your budget? And then wait, and then say, normally I'm double. So two weeks later, the phone rings Emma and a guy calls. He's seen the thing going viral on Facebook. He wants to hire me for some big speech in August in Dallas. And I said, what's your budget. He said,$10 ,000. I dropped the phone. That was three months of my mortgage. That was so much money. Yeah. I couldn't believe it.

35:58I forgot the second part. You forgot the top of it. So I felt so unworthy of the money. And here's another piece that you need to take. preparation is everything. There are moments in your life that are the at-bat moment where you are called from the bench and you step up to the plate of life. You better be ready. And they come around only so often. And I felt so unworthy of that money that I spent half of it, even though I am still$800 ,000 in debt, I took half of that money that I needed. And I hired a graphic designer to help me make a presentation that would look expensive. Oh, you did? But here's what that meant.

36:51I had to prepare. I had to prepare. And when I stepped on that stage, it was the performance of a lifetime. And the guy that booked me came up to me and said, I've been in this business booking speakers for 20 years. You are the single best female speaker I have ever seen in my entire life. And you are top two of all time. Who runs your business? I said you do. And he does to this day. No way. That next year. Yeah. That next year we booked 47 speeches. The next year it was 99. And then I was the most booked female speaker in the world. And I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

37:27And here's another takeaway I want to give you. To be, you use the word excellent. Being good at something is the price of entry. Anybody can be good in the restaurant business. Anybody can be good as an influencer. Anybody can be good in the podcasting space. Anybody can be good on stage or a good editor. Like, as far as I'm concerned, you don't have business charging for your services if you're not good, okay? To be exceptional, to be the one of one, to be in a category of your own. You have to understand the ecosystem that you're in. You have to understand the role that you play. You have to understand that business is not about the thing.

38:15It's about the way people feel because businesses are people. You have to understand the tiny details that a lot of people think are beneath them. And it's the details that most people think are beneath them that actually make you untouchable. Oh, yes. And so what I started to realize, because everybody thinks, oh, the job of a motivational speaker, you go to a big event with JP Morgan, you go to a big event with 10 ,000 people, that the job is to get a standing. That's not the job. Like, if you can't be good on the stage, you have no business being on the stage. The job is to make the people working at the event love working with you.

39:02Your job is to make their life easier. Your job is to leave that audience feeling something so that they talk about it. Your job is about how you treat the people, not the ones that are in the executive suite that don't even realize that you've been hired. At least back then they didn't. It's how you treat the production team. It's how you treat the event planner because the CEO is not the one that's going to recommend you. And see, this is, everybody chases everybody up here. It's actually here. You're networking. You talked about this, they're right in front of you. The event planner that is exhausted, that is terrified that your plane's going to be delayed, that is worried that you're going to be a diva, that is worried that you're going to go over time, that is, you know, like having anxiety attacks because everything about the event is falling on their shoulders and they're probably treated like garbage.

40:03And they're, if you can make them exhale, if you can make them feel like a superstar. And so here's some of the little things I did as I would be landing in Omaha and catching a cab because back in the day, you know, I was not. No one was sending calls. Oh God, no. I know I was a nobody. I was this like an up and coming speaker that everybody said was great. I would text the person who was like two rungs down. Yeah. Who's like part of the event team. Hey, I made it with a selfie. Oh my God. Thank you for letting me know. In the morning I'm texting. I'm coming over. I'm going to stop by Starbucks.

40:40Can I pick you? You want? Yeah, no, I'm serious. Give me, give me the order. I'll get it. No, you didn't. Yes, I did. Wow. And then I would show up and they'd be. You're real good. You really are excellent. People would literally say, you know, okay, so how do you, I'd be like, guys, it's your show. You tell me, you tell me, do you need it in keynote? Do you need it in PowerPoint? Oh, I don't care what's up on the slide. It's your show. You're calling it. You're the expert. I'm just, I've got my slot. I'll do my slot. I'll take care of my slot. I love that about you because it, I mean, it says so much about your personality.

41:07And I also love the idea that you talk about really understanding your space, understanding the ecosystem. When I think about business, I call it obsessing the competition. I know everything about my competition. Do you still think about the competition when you're in this spot of being the number one pretty much all the time? Do you think about the Joe Rogans? You don't? No. Not at all? No. What do you think of the Manosphere? I think it's very interesting that the majority of podcast listeners are women and that those are the shows that are at the top. Does it annoy you? Because I find it kind of maddening.

41:43I don't because I understand the research of how the discourse in the United States has changed in the last four years due to the intentional infiltration of disinformation. And I also understand that one out of every four pieces of information online that you interact with is a bot. And that coming out of the pandemic, the level of anxiety and uncertainty Research shows makes you completely prone to believe conspiracy theories. And so I see what's happening. I see the collective illusion. I see the danger of it. I don't think about it a lot in terms of as it relates to me, because I feel like if there's ever a moment in history or in the world where there's a lot of darkness and fear and uncertainty and the kind of othering of people, that there is always a corresponding rise of light and consciousness and goodness.

42:42And I am part of that force for good. Yes, you are. I'm not alone in that. There are so many amazing voices. There are so many amazing people around the world. And one of the reasons why the Mel Robbins podcast has become the global phenomenon that it is is because people are innately good. And they want to do well. And they are turning toward a show and making time, time that they don't have, to listen to something that makes them feel better and that reminds them of what you know to be true. I think you're part of the correction now. Yes, I do. I really believe that. I feel a great responsibility in that.

43:25And you're doing a great job of it, but I think the pendulum has swung so far that there has to be a correction. And I really think that's so much about what you do.

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47:35I want to talk to you about your business, but quickly before I do that, because it's such an important thing. And I speak to so many women, especially in business that have got themselves into tricky money situations. What do you say to people that feel completely at a loss and without hope to get themselves out of a really bad financial situation? Because you've clearly gone full circle. Yes. So you're not going to do it overnight. You have to do it over time. And one of the best things about being in a tricky financial situation or a terrifying one, because there's nothing more crushing than the stress that comes from not being able to pay your bills.

48:13But you can get yourself out of it, but you have to face it. You have to face it. Like I let the bills stack up for six months and didn't open. That's very common. Most people don't look at their bank account. Most people don't understand. I believe the research is that somewhere between$700 and$800, I don't remember if it's a month or a year of subscriptions, are actually attached to your pay. They're just coming right out. All the streaming services, all the apps on the phone. And so one of the first things you have to do is, first of all, there's so much information. You have to say to yourself, I am going to face this.

48:53I'm going to stop telling myself it's too late. The debt's too big. I can't possibly do it. Yes, you can. And there's a lot of amazing podcasts and amazing free books and amazing things that you can look into that will walk you step by step. But first you have to say, I am going to figure this out. I am going to get smarter about money. And one of the best things that that taught me, Emma, is that when you, the first way that you have to look at things is what's actually going out. Most of us try to solve our debt by trying to make more money without realizing you can find a lot of money if you get honest with yourself about all of the crap that you don't need that you're buying and where your money's going.

49:37And you will never be successful in a business if you don't understand money in and money out. And it begins with you personally. if you are a train wreck with your personal finances, you will not have the skills to actually manage a P &L. Absolutely not. And so that period taught me to really button down and to recognize you have so much more than you think in terms of the way that you spend money and consume. You don't need what you think you need. You can do without a lot of things. And if you are able to look in the mirror and go, okay, this is what I got. This is where it's going. I'm going to now look at experts.

50:24I'm going to now go get help. I'm going to start calling the credit card companies. I'm going to stop beating myself up. And you start saying to yourself, I can figure this out. It's like, for me, it took a decade. Like I'm not going to lie. 800 grand. Yeah. That'll take a decade. Do you have the same type of clarity and visibility over your business now because you must have so many different income streams, so many different things happening, such a giant team. What does that look like for you as a businesswoman? We have 50 full-time employees and studio spaces in Boston. And I have a unbelievable CFO and COO who's also my sister-in-law.

51:01And she came. I love a family member. Yes. She came from a company where she was the CFO of a company that had like 900. So she's an experienced. And we are the opposite. And she is a brilliant, brilliant person when it comes to that side of the business. And I mean, we review it weekly. Great. So you understand what's happening. I understand exactly what's happening. See, it's important to understand what data is important. It may surprise - You said this a couple of times. When you say data, you're really just talking about what information to take notice of. Yes. So it might surprise you to know that I do not have the backend numbers on my own podcast.

51:45And I do not look at the rankings. You don't? No, absolutely not. Did you train yourself not to look at it in the some way people don't look at when they're like losing followers? Is it a fear thing? Where does that come from? It's because that's not the metric that matters. What's the metric that matters? The metric that matters, there's two for me, is we send out an email five days a week called the impact email. that is a roundup of anywhere from 20 to 30 screenshots from social media, from reviews, from the inbox. This is an internal email. Yeah, but it goes to every partner. Oh, got it. It goes to every agency that works with us.

52:20And you see front and center what somebody is saying about what changed in their life. It's not like, I love you, Mel. Oh, it's like a sentiment report for you guys. But it's the actual screenshot. We had somebody say yesterday, thank you for the episode you did with Dr. London. Last night, I knew that I was starting to go into cardiac arrest because of what I learned on that podcast. I am alive today because of that podcast. Thank you for that. So what you're saying is you take a customer first, I would call it a customer first approach because I'm not really in podcast land as much, but it's like, it's a listener first approach.

53:02You care about what they are saying, which is exactly how I think about business. It's like, if you are going to do one thing, just focused on your customer. What is she saying? Yes. But here's what you've got to ask yourself with your just beginning. Who's it for? What's it for? Who's it for? What's it for? Yes. Really simple. Very, very, very simple because you obsess over losing followers, but you're not taking care of the ones that are there. You obsess over what your friends think, but you're not actually, you haven't even lasered. Your business is not for your friends. Your business is for who you're going to serve.

53:34Your business is not for your family. It may impact, but it's for the people that are going to find it and need it and for the problems that you're solving with it. That's what it is. And if you start to obsess over followers, you're now obsessing over the people who have left versus really focusing on the one that's here. Before I would go on and give a keynote speech, I would center myself by saying, even if there's 27 ,000 people in this arena. I would say there is just one person who is sitting in this audience who is meant to be here because there is something they are about to hear or experience that will make their life better or will help their daughter who has anxiety or will give them the hope that's missing.

54:13That is the one person I'm talking to. Now, where did you learn that? Where did you get to be so focused on that one person, and that one little shift that you can make? Like, where does that come from? Two things. I watched my parents. My parents are so community-minded and were so engaged with other people. Like, we would go to the farmer's market with my mom, and it would be this long stall with 40 vendors, and, you know, she'd be, she knew everybody's name, their dog's name, their kid's name. She'd be, like, talking with Frank, and I'm like, oh, my God, Mom. We're just here to get sugar snap peas.

54:53Like, why do we have to talk to everyone? And so I just watch this. I watch people show up at our house. My dad was a small town doc. And we had like, we ran like the minute clinic. And he was the hometown doctor for the football team. I just watch my parents care about and be interested in other people. That's one. Second thing was, when I was a public defender in New York City, you meet your clients for the first time after they've been arrested and they're in jail and they're awaiting arraignment. And here in the United States, You have a constitutional right to have the charges read before you, an attorney assigned, and an arraignment where they're going to do a bail hearing.

55:30And part of what they consider when they are considering bail is ties to the community. I can't tell you how many times I would walk out into that courtroom night after night after night because I worked the night court shift because arraignments run 24 hours a day in New York, and nobody was there. Nobody. And maybe because they couldn't be. maybe because they couldn't afford the subway pass, maybe because there was no phone to call, maybe because they were so sick and tired of this person getting in trouble, they were done showing up. Oh, wow. But it just broke my heart that no one was there.

56:11And so I just had this silent resolve that I would be there. I would show up. I would see people. I cannot believe how many people walk past the person cleaning the bathroom and don't look at you. Don't say, thank you. Don't say good morning. It's disgusting to me. Like how you can't see another human being and the power of a smile and the power of the energy. You know, if there's one thing that I am constantly fighting against, it's discouragement. Yes. this deep sense that people have that they don't matter and that there's nothing they can do to change the situation that they're in. Because of my own life experience and because I've turned my own attitude and my own health and my own marriage and my own finances and my family and everything around, I've changed it entirely.

57:07You've changed everything. Everything. Everything. from the inside out, everything. And yes, it takes work. And yes, it takes time. But nobody's going to come and do it for you. Nobody's going to save you. If you want your life to be better, it's your responsibility to do that for yourself and to make it better. And it's the single most important thing you could do because it's just going to go away like that. I agree with you one million percent. And so to me, all of that is kind of tied up in this deep, sincere interest in other people. This deep, sincere desire that if I can save anybody the headaches and the heartaches that I've caused myself or caused other people, because I didn't know.

57:54The number of years that our son Oakley struggled because we had no idea it was dyslexia and ADHD. It was being labeled a behavior problem. And how sad it made me to realize how many kids get shuttled in a direction that they don't deserve because they don't know what they're dealing with in terms of the way they're like, we can change this. We can help each other. And so that was kind of the, like the premise for the Mel Robbins podcast was simple. I got tired of watching everybody else launch podcasts. I missed the days of radio. I wanted to do longer form content. A lot of people don't realize that a lot of my company was the keynote speaking, but then I have a production company and a lot of people know Reese's company, Hello Sunshine, because it's public facing.

58:41I have the exact same type of business, only I partner with people like Starbucks and with LinkedIn. We've built the single most successful course on all of LinkedIn. And I know this. I mean, you have a business. We've been hired by Audible to do six original audio series for them, for their subscribers. Talk to us about the verticals of that business, because I want to talk about this new business that you've launched, but you have a serious empire around you. That's what you're building. Well, yes. Yes. Not well, yes. I'm just going to say it. Yes, yes, yes. Because what I came to and what I saw was not - What did you see?

59:19Well, first of all, I mean, first of all, it's what you feel. You are hanging out the window. There's all these people there. They're all like best in class in their field, right? When I had, I don't know, maybe recorded three or four podcasts, your whole team made themselves available and said, what do you need? How can we help you? What information would be useful to you and your tiny two people team right now? They spent the entire time that we recorded helping my team have since done multiple Zoom calls with them. And every now and again, when we don't know something, we're like, we're going to call them.

59:52And they answer and they give us the information. So beyond just incredible people, that you have built a real company that is making moves and doing incredible things in multiple verticals. Well, if you want to win, which I do, you have to become a student of the game you want to become the master of. And so before I got into the podcasting space, I had a business I was running and I studied the podcasting space. Who's on top? Who's not? What are the formats? What are the lengths? What do the demographics look like? The information's all there. Like if you want to launch a business, the coolest thing about today is you can actually study everybody.

1:00:33The roadmap is right there. And you don't have to worry about copying anybody because everybody copies each other, number one. But number two, you will always make it your own because you can't help but not to because you're going to be doing it. So I just started to recognize, okay, if you want to compete, it's got to be at least two days a week. Oh, if you want to compete, it's got to be, you know, an hour. Oh, if you've got to compete. And my goal in launching this would be that within a year, we would be able to break into the top 100 once. Like even just like a, we're there. Okay. Screenshot that.

1:01:10We did it. Okay. Yes, exactly. And I hired one person because I was placing a bet because the vast majority of podcasts, Do Not Make Money. And there's a huge, as you said, huge number of them. And you'd have to be some sort of sociopath to think that you could break through somehow and have something wildly successful out of the gate. And so I just assumed it would take a year. That it would take a year. Hired one person and we continued with existing operations on other things. And we recorded the first episode on the floor of the closet in my bedroom, because it's the only place it didn't echo.

1:01:50I live in a, you know, old wood house in Vermont. And the mission was simple. I had thought, I thought for a decade about all the people I would bump into, not on stage, not in conference rooms. I'm the kind of person that doesn't talk to the people eating in the restaurant. I talked to the waiters, the back of the house. Those are the people listening to the Mel Ron's podcast. My people are the people that I bump into in the hallway, that I see in the elevator, that I talk to in the grocery store. I thought about all those people and I thought, what if we could create a podcast that was like a walk with a friend?

1:02:29Because the mistake that I think most podcasts make is that we have a conversation and we keep talking to you as you're listening or watching right now. But most podcasts, you have a conversation and you let people eavesdrop. That's not what I'm doing. No, you're not. Not at all. I have constructed from the very beginning a podcast production and philosophy that is about the one human being who's tuned in. And how do we obsess over every single detail so that this one person who is listening, who is driving or walking, feels like they're with friends, feels like we have our arms around them, feels like even if we have some neuroscientist with 50 ,000 degrees that I can't pronounce, that we're not smarter.

1:03:11We're all just in this together. That if you're just learning this for the first time, you're not behind. You're right where you need to be. And that it's packaged in a way that it's entertaining and encouraging. And I got something to do. And if it's good, you're then going to want to share it with somebody. Yes. 50 % of the people that listen any given week have never listened to the show before. And they may never listen again. And that's okay. They came because somebody that they love listened and thought it was valuable enough that they shared it and recommended it. That's why this has exploded.

1:03:44We had been dominated in the top 20 of all podcasts since we launched. Not a single article was written about our show for two years. That's nuts. Why was that? Because we don't, we're not part of the news cycle. We don't interview celebrities. We do not talk about breaking news. Everything we talk about is evergreen. And I'm so proud of that fact. Yes, you should be. Because it means that this show has become a global phenomenon one person at a time. Well, also, Mel, you should be so proud because I feel like you taught me such an important thing and I won't forget it because you sat opposite me and you did this triangulation and you were like, it's me and it's you and it's the listener.

1:04:21And when you keep that in mind, like that is like, that's where your entire chat always comes back to, right? It's this triangulation and that you're never above anyone. You're never speaking down to anyone. You're on a level. Ever. And we're welcoming you in and you belong here and you can learn this. Yeah. You can apply this. But we're together learning. That's always the sense that I get. Like, I'm like, oh, like I'm in it and she's in it too. And you're asking all the things that I'm like, but what about? And it's like, boom, you're just, you're right there. Well, a lot of people don't also realize that before we get to the mics, there's probably 50 to 100 hours of work getting into it.

1:04:55That's what you do really well. Because we want to make it worth your time. Oh, no. And this is what I mean. And then there's another 100 hours after because we produce a different show for YouTube than we produce for listening. Oh. So the audio product is entirely different. I'm focused on the impact, not virality. If I can make it worth your time and impactful and it has a positive difference, if I shift you just slightly, you will share it with somebody else. Facts. I mean, that's just like the 101 in product marketing. It's like, if you buy a fantastic bra, you're going to tell your friends that you've got this fantastic bra and you're going to come back and buy another fantastic bra.

1:05:34End of. That's how it works. I don't need to create a bra that does, you know, water squirts coming out of it. It's fine. It's like, we can just make the great product and the people will come. So let's just talk a second because you've made another great product, but this time now, it's a little bit different from the other products. And I have to think to you about this. You're the first person I'm talking to about. First of all, I am so happy that I'm the first person. But when you said to me, I'm actually creating like a branded product, I was like, what are you talking about? And you kept saying this thing.

1:06:04It's pure genius. It's pure genius. It wasn't until I managed to get the little thing in my hand that I was like, oh, it's called pure genius. That is pure genius. I could just die. First of all, talk to me about this little perfection protein shot. I'll tell you what it is. So there's nothing like it on the market. It's pure genius. That's the name of the brand. It is a 23 gram whey protein shot that has all the amino acids you need. It's shelf stable. It is 100 calories. It has zero sugar. It's gluten-free. And here's the coolest part. It's not chalky. You don't have to choke it down. It will fill you up, but not bloat you.

1:06:44It's clinical grade. So if you're on GLP-1s or fighting cancer or when my dad had brain surgery and they were trying to give him those shakes that nobody can choke down, The medical scientific board for this that is launching, that I cannot disclose right now, is so unbelievable because it's people that do the actual research and academic papers and that are treating patients and are in clinical practice. And now it's a shot. Well, shut this out. Dunk, dunk, because I'm out here with a giant protein shake and I'm bloated and I don't want to drink it and I don't want all that magic. Here's how this happened.

1:07:17And this is how you find a problem to solve. This is what you always talk about. So I have listened to every expert. I'm listening with you on my own podcast. I can't believe how much we're all learning. Dr. Amy Shaw came on, I'll never forget it, in 2023, episode 77. And she came on and started talking about resistance training and protein and that not all protein is greater equal. And I'm like, what? All this shit I'm scooping in my smoothies, not actually counting? Wait, I need how much protein? Resistance training for hormones? That began. And then it was Dr. Gabrielle Lyons, who's muscle-centric medicine and all about your muscles and protein.

1:07:55Then Dr. Stacey Sims, who by the way is the number one most shared episode of the entire world on Apple this year, talking about resistance training and protein. She's a PhD from Stanford. I must've shared that episode 1 ,000 times. I think it was me. It's so incredible the way she speaks, what she tells us, her wisdom. It's so counter, like the narrative that's happening right now. I was like, what do you mean I don't need to go in the cold plunge like that? Like what is happening? And what do you mean I shouldn't exercise without eating protein? Exercising on an empty stomach for women is - Because it's for women.

1:08:31The information is for a woman, by a woman. So I made it my goal this year, Emma, to get more protein. I made it my goal to do resistance training. And I'm going to tell you something. It's really hard to get a lot of protein. Yeah, I know. And I'm cooking and I'm shaking and I'm smoothing and I'm cottage cheese and I'm egg bites and I'm doing what I can. And I'm always falling short. Every day. And the bars are melting in my purse and I got to refrigerate it so I can't take it on the go. And so I started calling doctors and saying, what do you do? I started asking other people in the space, what do you recommend?

1:09:05And I bumped into these people that were working on this shot. And I got so excited about it that I said, I want to get involved. And when I say get involved, I mean become a complete control freak. And a year ago, I became a co-founder behind the scenes of this brand new company called Pure Genius that was working on a clinical grade whey protein shot that is the viscosity of water. You can pour this in a margarita. You can pour this in iced tea. You can chug this. You can put this in your kid's lunchbox. When my dad was having brain surgery and we couldn't keep him nourished, he could have taken this.

1:09:40We have a doctor from the Mayo Clinic who has gotten on board who told us that sucralose is counteracting to chemotherapy. It's one of the worst things that you can eat if you're a cancer patient. Is that true? It is true. And so she cited all the research on it. So I've been to the labs. I've been working with the scientists. We have driven the formulation. Our scientific board has signed off on this. They cannot wait to start recommending this to people because we're taking protein out of the gym and into your life and into your golf bag and your backpack and the lunch boxes. It's for everybody because we all need it.

1:10:20And we're trying hard, we're cooking our meals, we're doing our prep and we're falling short. And so I am so proud we have created a solution that is under$4, that you can trust, that is research backed, it's simple and it fits into a busy person's life. And by the way, that's pure genius. Ding! With the light bulb! Ding! That is genius! That's right? It's so good, Mel. How proud are you of this? Are you dying? I'm dying because I need this. And when I first saw the product, it tasted like shit. It was too sweet. And the ingredients were junky. And I needed something to help me bridge the gap.

1:11:04And I said, I'm going to get involved. I'm going to get involved because I think this is a solution that anybody can use.

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1:13:40How are you thinking about this? Is this like a pure business play to you? Is it a wellness play? Like, how are you thinking about the Mel Robbins branded product? Well, everything I do is simple, it's useful, it's relatable, and it's research-backed. And I am not an expert in protein. I am a normal person trying to get more protein, like everybody else. And so when I got involved, there are a couple things that I think are really important. Never sign a deal that you will regret in success. The deals that I have been really pissed off about are the ones where it turned out to be really successful and I was a dummy.

1:14:26Yeah. And so if you are able, I wasn't able in the beginning of my life. I was, you know, when I have to pay your bills, you take whatever deal you can, you take whatever project you can, you go, go, go, go, go. And then you work and do your side hustle on the side. Yeah. That's the other thing that's really important to understand. You should never, ever, ever quit your job because the research shows if you keep your job while you work on the thing, you are three times more likely to be successful because you don't put economic pressure on the thing. No, that is 100 % right. So in the beginning, you'll take shitty deals.

1:14:57But when you get to the point where you're going to do something and you have a little financial security, never take a deal that in success, you're going to be angry at yourself. So for example, another thing about my business. I own everything I do. I do joint ventures. Oh yeah. I do joint ventures on the books. So no advances, just joint ventures. So it's a straight prospect split. Yes. That 8 million books. I sever all the audio book rights and do it myself. You do? Of course. It's just a digital file. Why would I let somebody else participate in that? Why would you? Why would you? Why would you?

1:15:25Why would you? Because you're Mel Robbins. You've got one of the most recognizable voices in the whole world. Why would you? Why would you? But why would anybody? But I, well, let me tell you. And a lot of people do because they don't understand their power and their genius. And I think that you should, and you clearly do, and you are really building this very, very impressive media company behind the scenes. And I don't know that, you know, maybe this is not what you care about particularly, but it's very, very clear that you're a very astute businesswoman. Yes. Like that is what you're building right now.

1:15:59Yes. And it's critical when you're building a business to understand what is important to you to control. And what is important for you to control? Because right now you're the face, you're the founder. What is becoming the most important thing for you? I have to have control over the product and over what I am being asked to do. I have to have control over my time. I will never be talent in somebody else's game. That's why I've never put my name on a product. It's why my name is not on this product. I'm right. I wanted to step in as a co-founder because it was critical to me that if I was going to get behind something, I had to go to the lab.

1:16:44I wasn't going to just slap my name on something like a lot of people do. I was going to get to the lab and meet the scientists. I was going to build my own medical board. And by the way, you want to know the first person I called? Dr. Amy Shaw. Of course you did. Can you go to the lab with me? You have a ronodex of the doctors. I'm like, you're the one who started all this. You're like, hello. Well, she's also a triple board certified, Ivy educated, Cornell, Yale. Well, that's to me why I so trust you with this. Because I know that you have spent the last, God knows how many years, speaking to the best of the best of the best doctors.

1:17:17Of course. And so you already won't accept any shit. Absolutely. And then I wouldn't, it took six months to actually get the legal work done because there was no way that I would be outvoted by a board. on the meaningful things that matter to me. You cannot change the formulation unless I say yes. You cannot change the branding unless I say yes. You cannot like do certain things unless I say yes. And here's the other thing that's really important. You have to understand what you're good at and what you're not. I am not the operator. I have partnered and have co-founders that are genius at operations.

1:17:52Pure genius. Pure genius. I am the person that is driving the formulation. Yes. Ding. Ding. I'm the person that's driving the formulation. I'm the person that's driving the branding. And I'll even tell you the story, the inspiration for the branding. I was walking with Dr. Amy and my business partner, Christine. We had just gotten done with the lab. The packaging came back and it looked like everything else. And I'm like, I'm not inspired. I'm not, this is like watery and fruity. And it's unlike any other protein you'll ever, like in its clinical grade, like we got to have something like iconic.

1:18:22I need something great. And I'm like, I got to call Emma. And I said, You know, this is going to sound really cheesy, guys, but I'm going to admit something to you. When I am looking at bottles of water, I'll admit it to you. When I select smart water, I feel smarter. I don't even know why. I need the PhD. But I feel smart. And here's what I want. I want people to feel like a genius when they're making this choice. And I'm like, and what is the icon for genius? It's a light bulb. Hello, Thomas Edison. It's a light bulb. Einstein. It's a light bulb. And I know it's cheesy, but I don't care because here's another metric I'm going to give you.

1:19:03We did this for the book cover. We did this for this. If I'm walking down the beach, I want to be able to spot the Let Them Theory book cover half a football field away and know that's that book. And boy, do you. I saw those all over the beach this summer. If I am in a gym or in a schoolroom cafeteria or I'm at the mall or I'm anywhere in life or I'm online, I want to be able to see this and go, oh, that's that thing. And then I want to hide something cool in it. So it's all inspired by vintage light bulbs and the geniuses of modern day and the past, which we will be celebrating in the brand rollout.

1:19:41Pure genius. It's pure genius. I'm so happy for you because I actually really believe in this product. I think there's a need for it. I need it right now. I know people listening will be like, when can I get it? Where do I get it? How do I get it? It's like, just go to Mel. Find Mel, she's going to have it. And here's the thing. You don't even need to buy it. Just go to Pure Genius Protein and read the science because I want you to be educated about protein. Because the biggest news to me is if it doesn't have the amino acids you need, it doesn't count. Like if you don't see leucine, if you don't see the essential amino acids on the label in terms of it being part of the complete protein, it doesn't count.

1:20:19And there's a lot of things being labeled, especially targeting women that don't count. Well, we definitely don't want that. We don't want to waste our time now. Yes. Well, listen, I cannot wait to see your ever-growing success of this thing. I've got two really quick questions. The first thing is that you have spoken to countless experts, professionals, doctors, leaders of all different types. I want to understand when you think about the things that you've taken into your life, when you distill that information, the things that you know to be true, what are some of the most important things?

1:20:57What does Mel Robbins get up and think about every day because you know it to be true? The settings in your mind can be changed. That your mind is not just a supercomputer, it is a spotlight. And everything that you think has been programmed from the past. And if you don't like the noise up here, I want you to get very intentional and I want you to start to train your mind. And I'm going to give you two things to do. Every single day, this is going to sound super cheesy. I know you do something similar. You are going to wake up and say, today's going to be a good day. Even if you're going to a funeral, today's going to be a good day because I'm going to show up and I'm going to support people that I love today.

1:21:36And we're going to celebrate somebody that I deeply care about. Today's going to be a good day. You have just signaled to your brain to now spotlight out and look. And I'm going to prove to you that you can do this. because here's the second thing I want you to do. Today, as you're walking, I want you to look for a heart. I want you to just scan around and see if you can see anywhere around you the shape of a heart. It might be a stain on the floor. It might be the shape of a leaf. It might be a pattern in the wall. I see one right now. And what you're doing is you are, when you say, I'm going to find a heart today, you are programming and changing the settings up here in your brain.

1:22:15you are activating something called the reticular activating network. It's like a hairnet on your brain that changes over time. And it's paying attention to what you say is important. And mark my words, as you start to make it a daily habit, today's going to be a good day and I'm going to find a heart today. I'm going to scan, I'm going to train my brain. And you start to see them everywhere. That is evidence that you just manually change the settings on your mind. And it's so important to understand that. because the way that you see the world and what's possible determines the world you see.

1:22:55And there is so much good, and there is so much right in front of you, and there are people that are in front of you that are there to help you. There are people that you're currently jealous of or that have achieved the things that you want to achieve. They are literally angels on the path ahead of you, guiding you. You can study them. You can go to Microsoft Copilot, which is the AI platform I personally like because I have used it since 1990. And I don't think they're going to make a lot of big, scary decisions because I don't think they want to go out of business in the race to the bottom.

1:23:27I think they really want to figure this out. So I trust them. You can put in anything you want and it'll give you the plan. But then you've got to make sure you have a mindset that says, I can figure this out and I'm going to keep trying and keep showing up. Now, when you think about your legacy, what do you want to be known for? My legacy for sure is the Let Them Theory, that I gave to the world a modern version of the ancient wisdom and the fundamental truths about life that we could apply in moments when things seem profoundly out of control. And it helps you feel more peaceful and in control.

1:24:08But when I think about the legacy in a smaller way. I just think about my children and I think about every single person. This is what, like, I really hope my legacy is that people say, boy, she really was a good person and she made me feel good about myself and she left the world a little bit better than she found it. I think that will happen to you now. It happens every day, actually. I'm pretty freaking sure about it. I'm so happy to have you here today. We're going to do a very quick rapid fire and it has to be rapid. Mel Robbins, first thing you do when you wake up in the morning? Get out of bed.

1:24:49Last thing you do before you go to bed? I do the same where I just like literally put my hand on my heart right as I'm, like I'm actually in bed. So I'm taking fall and I'm sick out of bed. Yes, that's it. I love that. What's a book that changed your life? To Let Them Theory? Well, the Let Them Theory for sure changed my life. Almost every book changes my life in some way or another. But a book that's really struck me was The Emperor of Gladness. Ocean Vaughn wrote it. We just had him on the podcast. It's a book about the fact that there is dignity and beauty, even when you're really struggling.

1:25:26It's a book about people that meet each other while they're working at Boston Market and become a little bit of a family. and if you've ever worked a retail job, which we both have, you're treated like garbage and you feel invisible and you often question if your life is ever going to go anywhere because you feel frozen in time and insignificance. And the book is really about just exploring the beauty in life. There's this moment when his mom was dying, he was sitting by her bedside and kind of talking and reminiscing and, you know, tell me some of your favorite memories. And she said, my most favorite thing I'm going to remember is sitting in the McDonald's parking lot, eating chicken nuggets with you.

1:26:08That's your life. That's your life. And if you're not careful, you're going to be so consumed and so busy with meaningless stuff that you're going to miss it. Now, what are you currently aspiring to in your business life? Tell me in your business life first. What I'm aspiring to is to achieve the same level of excellence and impact with less time. To use technology in a way that gives people more time to focus on the artistry and to be smarter with that. And to also use technology, because our podcast is evergreen, so I started investing in AI tools two years ago so that our content would speak to generative search.

1:26:51And so I'm very interested in translation tools and things that will help bring the world-renowned experts and these episodes that we pour our hearts and souls into to people around the world who may not speak English or who don't have the platforms that they're currently on. It's unlikely you'll see me ever do one of these big deals you're seeing now with all the other people jumping in because my podcast needs to be free. Right. Great answer. On mission. Great answer. Always. Always back to the mission. Always back to the mission. The values. Every single time. Like, do not take the money. Don't deviate.

1:27:25If it's against your mission, do not do that. Yeah. It will be very expensive. Yes. Well, a much more expensive, much more profitable deal will come along in the future, even if the profitable deal is just closing your eyes at night and knowing you stayed true to yourself. Damn right. What are you aspiring for in your personal life? More time with my husband and kids. More time with my girlfriends. I'd like to see you more. I mean, hello. Yes. I'm very happy you're here in LA. I will tell you that. What are the big pieces of advice that you have for women in the world right now? Those that are navigating ambition and their personal lives and, you know, those that are, because we're in a funny old time.

1:28:05Why do you think it's a funny old time? Well, you know, I think it's a funny old time because there's so much insecurity out there. I feel like people used to come in and do their job and feel really good about it. And now they're worried that, you know, their job is not going to be there for them and they might be struggling to have a baby and they're feeling uncertain that they should even have a baby because they don't know what's going to happen. And they're thinking about climate change. It's a time of great insecurity for people, I think. Yes. So number one. And notice I didn't mention the political climate there, but we're just going to go.

1:28:38I think that's part of it too. Like, well, first of all, I don't buy into the collective illusion. I do not buy that the loudest, most extreme and disgusting voices represent the majority? They don't. They don't. That's because they don't. They don't. But I do think it's seeping into people's weariness. What I would say is if you feel all those things, you're having a mentally healthy response to a world that feels like it's spinning off its axis. Those are worthy things to worry about. And so I just want to validate that. And the worrying, is it helping you? Does worrying about AI, does worrying about whether or not you're going to get pregnant, is it helping you achieve the things and, or even just stay peaceful?

1:29:17And the answer is probably no. And so the reason to attack the worrying and the reason to like focus on that is because it's not helping you. It's actually hurting you. And if you can get control of that and you can go let them, like let AI come, I can't control that, but let me remind myself I could spend this weekend leaning into the skills. I could spend this weekend like asking, do I even like this job? and do I want to make a pivot now so that I'm taking control and not sitting here feeling insecure like a sitting duck, you know, let them, whether I get pregnant or not, even though it's high stakes stuff, but let me just take the best care that I can and let me tell myself that my body's able to manage this and that the more I take care of myself and I trust how things are going to work out, I trust my ability to be okay, that if I'm in a calmer and safer state, than I'm setting myself up to be in a place to be capable and to also help myself achieve those goals because we know stress does not help.

1:30:18But I think the main thing to say, if everything's important, nothing is. And one of the fastest ways to take control is to sit with yourself for a day and ask yourself, what is actually important to me? How am I going to measure success? And when you really go through this exercise and you look at everything that's on your plate, You'll notice that 90 % of it is other people's expectations and emergencies. It doesn't have to be done today. And if you can learn how to slow down and every day go, okay, what's the number one thing that I need to focus on today? Somehow you're going to start to feel more in control again.

1:30:56And all of the emergencies take care of themselves anyway, because they draw your attention. But you've got to get back into what's the number one thing for me today? Because if I allow everything to be important, nothing will be important in my life. It's a great piece of advice. this is the final question I have for you. What is something that you used to value deeply that you no longer value? Other people's opinions. The best answer. Mel, I love you. Thank you so much for being here. It's the best. You're the best. You're the best. I love you. Thank you. Thank you, Beyond. Proud of you. Thank you, guys.

1:31:24Thank you.

1:31:30If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. A Spy with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilead-Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, Leah Reece-Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black Video production by Evan Cox Kurt Courtney Andrew Steele Carlos Delgado And Arnie Agassi Social media by Olivia Holman Special thanks to Brittany Smith Sydney Ford My teams at The Lead Company and WME Maura Curran Josephina Francis Hilary Schuff Eric Donnelly Kate Hutchinson-Rose Tim Meekle Sean Cherry And Lauren Vieira If you have questions for me You can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed.

1:32:34Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.