Negotiation Starts Before You Enter the Room

18:47Mori Taheripour:Thank you. I'm going to add something before I go to there. Please. And it is something that sort of traditionally women have also not necessarily sort of succeeded in when it comes to negotiations, is that we almost felt like we had to be given permission to negotiate. Right. We don't recognize the negotiations when we're in it, which is why we don't think we have experience. But we also don't know that we're allowed. And therefore, we miss the moments. And people always say, when is the right time to negotiate? I say, when you need to negotiate. That's the right time.

19:17Emma Grede:No one's coming down and picking you and saying, this is the moment.

19:20Mori Taheripour:No, it's when you, if negotiations means that's when you speak your voice and that's when you speak your truth, then you decide when you're going to speak it. Now, maybe you walk into your boss's office and they look like they're having a bad day. Probably not the right moment, right? But we're also emotionally intelligent. And so we know how to pick and choose, but nobody walks around to men and say, you know what it is? You are now having the permission to negotiate. They're like, every day is a negotiating day.

19:43Emma Grede:So what do you say to someone who's listening to this that says, yeah, but you know, there are, there are seasons for this, like in the place where I'm working right now, you know, there's times when we get to talk about our pay increases or a change of, you know, job. What do you say to that person? That's fine.

19:58Mori Taheripour:But also if you put it off, you may no longer feel the courage to do it. You may miss that moment. So you can have the pre-conversations. You can go up to your boss and say, listen, I know that the annual review is coming up in a few months. I would love to have a conversation with you before that, right? And so you've already then verbally committed yourself to this, right? And there's no turning back at this point because your boss may turn around and say, yeah, I know you want to have that conversation with me. And so now it's sort of that, that accountability, right? You voiced it. So you create those moments.

20:31Mori Taheripour:No, when it's, first of all, don't look for the perfect moment. There is no such thing as a perfect, the perfect moment is when you're ready and that's, you create those opportunities.

20:39Emma Grede:Maury, I love that you say this because it's very, very different from what is my bottom line, which I think is again, part of that scarcity mindset. People are like, I won't take less then. And I'm like, that can't be the starting point. The starting point has to be like, what are your values? Oh, absolutely.

20:53Mori Taheripour:What do I want to abide by? Because if it doesn't go your way, at least you can look in the mirror and say, you know, I'll do better next time. What did I learn from this? But if you negotiate a way or compromise the things that are so important to you, let's say for me, it's honesty, right? And part of it is I'm a really bad liar, right? So, And my reputation is tied to these things. So knowing that, I know that to abide by that value, I need to prepare in a way that will eliminate the opportunity to have to, or the need to have to lie. So I think I go through all the potential questions they're gonna ask, right?

21:30Mori Taheripour:I'm gonna be ready because I wanna know how much I wanna give you. I wanna know how I'm gonna frame it. I'll do it honestly, but in a way that I'm not gonna lose my leverage. So knowing that, I will always keep that promise to myself because at the end, and I don't like using the word winning, but feeling whole comes from that, the fulfillment of that promise.

21:49Emma Grede:And just for people to like to crystallize that, right? So knowing your values and knowing what you're not going to do, like what is the conversation you're having in your head? I frame it up for me. You're literally saying to yourself, what?

22:03Mori Taheripour:Who am I? What's important to me? What's important to me? What's important to me? And I'm not talking about a thing or a price or anything, but what makes me who I am? Part of the understanding yourself, it's the messy truth that people are so afraid to really uncover or think about. But if you do it beforehand, you've dealt with those monsters, right? You've battled them. Go get your therapy. And I'm a big fan of therapy. I'm a big fan of... These days, I do a lot of sort of energy work. If I am burdened, I'm not free. Oh, yeah. And when I'm not free, I can't possibly advocate for myself. But my thoughts are not clear.

22:48Mori Taheripour:My courage is diminished. I want to feel free. I want to feel whole. I want to show up. Not as my perfect self, because I'm not. I want to show up as Maury. This is who I am. And you don't have to love me. But I'm going to be respectful and I'm going to be kind. I'm going to be likable. But this is me.

23:09Emma Grede:all day long, every day. So you go in and you've already done that work. You've already asked yourself, what is important to me? What else needs to happen before you walk into that room? Goals.

23:21Mori Taheripour:So once you do that, and that's why sort of the order of it matters. And so goal setting is really important. And the really great thing about goal setting is that there's so much science behind this. The research is profound. And what we know to be true is this, is that people who set aspirational goals always do better in their negotiations, right? It's as though you rise to the occasion. And aspirational is scary. Aspirational is not comfortable. Negotiations isn't meant to be comfortable, right? And what you want in life, if you see comfortable, that's as good as it's going to get. And probably less because if you start negotiating in a place of comfort, think about the only place to go from there is down.

24:03Mori Taheripour:But here's the most empowering thing is that when you think about it, if I am aspirational, if I'm brave, if I have courage to dream big and want more for myself, when the research tells me that I'm likely to get that, or if I don't get that, it's like reaching for, if you don't get to the moon, you'll at least hit the stars, then that feels so uplifting and empowering to me. And that's why I spend so much of my time talking to my students about this, because you know what this is telling you is that life doesn't happen to you, you happen to life. And that's when so many of us give us, give our power away in negotiations because we think somebody else has determined the outcome.

24:39Mori Taheripour:No, my friend, you were all along, right? And you were in the driver's seat. Now, if you ended up looking up and you're all of a sudden in the passenger seat, it's because you opened the car door and you walked around and you sat in that passenger seat. So you gave up your power, but you could have, you could have actually owned it.

24:56Emma Grede:So Maury, what's the difference when you say set an aspirational goal, What is the difference between doing that and setting a high bar for yourself and completely overshooting? Because again, as somebody that sits in a lot of rooms with people, I will often have somebody come in and do something. And I'm like, wait, you need 10 more years experience in a different company for that thing. So how do people balance like where is aspirational enough and where is just farcical?

25:29Mori Taheripour:Because negotiations is persuasion. So this first part of it that I was talking about was persuading yourself. That's why it's so important to know your value and understand your worth. But the second part of that is now you have to persuade other people. And it's really hard to do that without data. And it's because data is sort of a universal language. It's objective. So I can ask for anything if I can give you the data for it. Know your market value. Know price points. Your pricing strategy reflects all of that data. In the negotiations, when you're asking for a raise and you know what you're in your position at other companies in your industry people are making, and you come in armed with that information, as well as the data of what your accomplishments are, what you've managed to do in that position.

26:15Mori Taheripour:When you come in armed with that, it feels like you're speaking truth to power. as opposed to this place of, well, I want this because I deserve it. Okay, that's cute, right? But tell me why. Or, you know, I'm asking for this because I think I'm the best in my job at this. Through whose eyes, right? This great Japanese proverb that says, even a sheet of paper has two sides, right? This only works if I understand what your side is so I can communicate it in a way that you will understand it and vice versa.

26:48Emma Grede:And isn't that so important, and making sure that you have run through what the other side's point of view is. Absolutely. Because again, so often it's so easy to be like, you know, I've got this goal. I know exactly what I want and I've got my information together, but you haven't considered what's happening with the person in front of you. Absolutely.

27:09Mori Taheripour:Absolutely. But I have to say this. So I almost take preparation and split it into two sides. The first is always prepare from your perspective first. What do I want? What are my non-negotiables? What are my goals? All that. Have perfect clarity, like very lucid. And then you can say, okay, now let me think about this person. What do I need to know about them? And I know you've talked about this. You may be one of the only people I know that is like, I love negotiations. I'm like, that's my girl. But it's this notion of being really prepared and really curious.

27:39Emma Grede:It is. And the curiosity is something that is so, so key. But I learned very early on because one of my very first jobs was, you know, I was the middleman. Like I was the person that nobody wanted to pay because there was somebody on this side and somebody on this side. And my job was to like broker the deal. And you learn early that, you know, a good negotiation isn't about winning or losing at all. It's about finding this like beautiful middle ground, you know, where something is mutually advantageous. And when you're kind of the middleman, the middle girl, you're out of it. You could see that so clearly, but I think it's so hard when you're in one of those seats.

28:17Emma Grede:And that's why I kind of love this idea of you talking about the role of listening. And it is so important to think about yourself first, but that listening piece has to come in where you understand the other side.

28:31Mori Taheripour:Absolutely. I think there's no greater power in negotiations than a curious mind. Oh yeah.

28:36Emma Grede:So how do you negotiate though without over justifying, you know, because I get that of coming in with all of the data, with a list of your accomplishments, knowing what you've brought to the company. But again, it can move into this space of you kind of like feeling like you're in a position where you're like begging for something that you rightly deserve. What's the line and how do you feel that out?

29:00Mori Taheripour:Really great question. I'm thinking about running it through some of the mistakes that I know that people make. Maybe space, maybe silence. that's a hard one for people isn't it oh god just i mean make the ask and shut the fuck up sit on your goddamn hands if you have to right shut it right because and and part of it again it's amazing how so much of it comes from not having self-confidence because when you make that presentation you've done all the work right because we want external validation We expect it at that moment, right? So we expect we're going to make the presentation and somebody's going to say, great.

29:43Mori Taheripour:Most people won't, right? And by the way, people think in silence. People don't speak through their thinking, right? So give themselves a chance to think. So you've done your work. You've done your homework. You've come up with the arguments. You've presented your case. You've done your work. You sit back and you just relish in just the accomplishment of having done that, right? Now the ball's in their court. Honor that. Let them show up with their counter to this proposal, right? The minute you start talking, it's as though you're saying, by the way, if you don't like it, which I see all the time, you know, we can negotiate this, right?

30:22Mori Taheripour:Or this is negotiable. Immediately you're saying, you know what? That number I gave you, I thought was already high. So we can negotiate it down. That's the immediate message that you're sending them because I probably shot too high so that we can negotiate this. If you just drop the mic and you sit back, especially if it has data, if it has that information associated with it, now what they're thinking is, damn, that was good, right? And maybe they think, it was a really strong argument. I don't like it. But now I have to come back with my best game, right? Like my counter has to be all that because what they said, feels really strong.

31:03Emma Grede:So Maury, where do you go when it turns in, when you're sitting opposite someone who is a really strong negotiator and it gets combative when you feel like, okay, what I've done, I followed all the steps. It didn't necessarily land. I'm opposite somebody who's really good at this. And it moves into that place where it feels not where you wanted it to go.

31:25Mori Taheripour:Yes. And you start like, this is happening. You can feel it.

31:28Emma Grede:Why don't they understand? Like I said, I followed all the tips.

31:31Mori Taheripour:Yes. What don't they understand? We never say, what don't I understand? They must be wrong. Can't they see it the way I see it? What's wrong with them? This again is quite simple. I mean, first of all, I'd say breathe. Breath work is so important and people don't give that enough. They think that's so simple. But the truth is that, I don't know if you found yourself in this place, but I get really hard massages, right? I love a good massage. Like dig deep, right? And my masseuse was laughing a while back. He's like, and he goes so hard anyway. So I know the moment he says, this is going to be a little tough, breathe.

32:08Mori Taheripour:That means death is abound, right? Like we are going in. And so he's like, take a breath. And I literally went, and he goes, that was a breath. It's because the anxiety, the thing I expected to be coming, I had anticipated it to be so bad that I couldn't even breathe through it. So this is the same thing. conflict, give yourself that breath, that let the oxygen fill your lungs, right? Because that oxygen actually is bringing you clarity, right? It's giving you a moment to retreat, even if it's just a moment. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, we call this going to the balcony in negotiations, which means that when you are both right here and you're going at it, it's very hard to see somebody else's perspective.

32:53Mori Taheripour:And it's also hard to evaluate your own, right? Because we're in it. We're deep, right? This is the mud. We're wrestling, right? So when we talk about going to the balcony, it's like, if you can just envision this, it's sort of like lifting yourself up from that moment and saying, what is it that I'm not seeing? What is it that they're not seeing? Is there room, right? Is there something that we're missing? And so it's like almost that immediate evaluation of the situation. Some people are really good at doing that there. The other thing is, who said it has to be done today? Right? Maybe you just say, you know what?

33:29Mori Taheripour:Maybe we just need a little space. Right? Let's just take a little time. Let's go for a walk or, you know, maybe you come at this tomorrow. Like, and the American culture is so efficient. We're so hyper-efficient. I would say this is the only place where I know that we eat while we walk, while we take a call and listen to a podcast all at once. Right? So take a moment, you know, go back, go back to your corners. Yeah. but really sort of ensure that they know the reason you're doing this is because you say something like, maybe we're missing something. Maybe I'm missing something.

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34:38Emma Grede:I always say that I think it's so important for people to know that on one side of a negotiation, it's always usually more important for one side than it is the other. And it's all right if you need some time. You don't need to make a decision to be fine with what's being offered to you. You can say, thank you, I need some time to think about this. And that is okay too, because it's your life. These are big decisions and not everything can be done in the moment. I wanted to ask you what you saw in the kind of differences and the nuances of negotiating in a place that is like completely new to you versus somewhere where, you know, let's say you've been working in a place for a really long time.

35:24Emma Grede:Like are there, are there big differences between sort of where you're known versus if you're walking into something that is a brand new situation?

35:33Mori Taheripour:I mean, I think it could, that's really interesting. I think that it could go one of two ways, right? Familiarity sometimes breeds bad habits. doesn't adjust. So a new location could be like a red start. It's sort of void of perceptions and biases and all those things. And even yours of that place, right? We associate certain places with certain things. But I think that it really goes back to the story that you're telling yourself, your own narrative, right? And if your narrative is one that always leans towards anxiety and fear, then it doesn't matter, right? Because no matter where you're at, it's going to feel, you're going to associate either the bad with that or the new place, you're going to be like, oh God, I'm never good at someplace new or, oh, I feel so uncomfortable or they don't know me or I wish I knew this place.

36:24Mori Taheripour:I don't feel comfortable. So I think that whatever narrative you're telling yourself, you can control that. And so neither of those situations should feel uncomfortable or different. If it's new, learn. If it's old, reset. Right. And, and so all of these things come from a place of, let's just make sure that we're not selling ourselves short because truth be told, you can navigate anything with curiosity and you can navigate anything with experience. And so I think again, this, how we tell ourselves these stories becomes really important.

36:57Emma Grede:You think you can navigate well or negotiate well when you actually have less leverage?

37:03Mori Taheripour:Oh yeah. What does law suffrage mean? Leverage is perception, right? All the studies show us that leverage has so little to do with the size of your company or the number of employees that you have or the amount of resources that you have. If somebody else thinks you have leverage, you have leverage. so leverage is all about how you show up if you walk in a room held head held up high you're smiling you're shaking somebody's hand firmly you're making eye contact you own that room oh that matters oh it's the only thing that actually matters because they would be like oh she looks like she's the boss lady right she looks confident and then immediately they think that you of course have reason to feel that confident.

37:50Mori Taheripour:So you have leverage. You know, I always tell people, I'm like, you want leverage? Then tell yourself you have it. Walk in your power. This is why the power poses are so important and you walk in with that, that I've got this. It's everything because they immediately think that you do. I cannot believe I'm going to ask you this question. Does the outfit matter? Yeah.

38:12Emma Grede:Yes. Is there research to say the outfit matters?

38:16Mori Taheripour:I think that, well, I'm doing this sort of, this is my own research, but I'll tell you why I think they often matters is because I know this to be true is that I will never, like for me, I negotiate all the time because I teach, teaching is negotiations, big presentations, being on stage. If I am not comfortable, I don't care if 20 people tell me I look good, but if I don't feel like I look good, I know that I've given up some of my power. And so this may be counter to what you're thinking, but I'm not dressing for you. I'm dressing for me. And that's why I think the outfit matters. Can you negotiate well on a Zoom?

38:56Mori Taheripour:Yes, hard, but yes. Harder though now. It is, it is. Because I believe that the energy we get off people really feeds us. It can direct us. What makes it hard is because we're also very distracted. our level of concentration. I mean, it's so diminished. All the studies show us this. I know you know this. So the thing that becomes really important is that you know what your distractions are and you completely block them. Yeah, because you speak about this a lot, right? Presence. Yes. Like be in the room. Presence is power. Presence is power. Because one, you know, two parts of this. One is it feels really good for your counterpart, right?

39:37Mori Taheripour:You certainly don't want to ask a question and your phone buzzes and you're looking at your text. before the person's about to answer the question, because I know how I would feel if I was that person. I'd be like, oh, I'm competing with your text message. This answer is not going to be that important to you. So you know what? Why am I going to be open and honest or vulnerable even about this, right? So do what's important to you, because clearly I'm not, right? So it's so disrespectful. But the other thing is that if you get distracted, you are losing the ability to be strategic because part of listening is the ability to not just listen with your ears, but it's listening with your heart.

40:13Mori Taheripour:It's listening with your mind. It's listening with your eyes, right? That really connected, mindful listening is impossible if you're not present, right? So Zoom, if you get on a call, if you're negotiating, and by the way, there's a step before the negotiations, which I think is even actually more important, which is that notion of like information sharing. Information exchange is that step before. It's not transactional. It's the getting to know you stage. It's the building of the rapport. increased amount of curiosity at that moment because of what you're saying is that we're going to negotiate something.

40:45Mori Taheripour:That's the transactional piece. We're going to get there. But for right now, I just want to know who you are. All right. And -

40:51Emma Grede:Oh, isn't that so lost?

40:52Mori Taheripour:But it feels so good. It feels so good. When you know that some, I don't know about you, I'm sure that almost everybody you sit with is super interested in you, but this notion of like, oh, they actually care what I want to say? Yeah. They see me? I mean, every human being wants nothing more than to be seen and to be heard, right? And so when you can grant somebody that gift and say, you know what? Yeah, there's a transaction. That's actually not even that important. You write this right here. This is the most important thing. So tell me about yourself or, or what's that painting you have behind you?

41:28Mori Taheripour:That's really beautiful. Or, oh, does, is that your son who does, is he playing football? Oh my God, my son plays football too. How do you feel about that? Do you get a little worried about it? But, you know, now what you're saying is, and by the way, nevermind the fact that you come in knowing what college they went to, what their job was, all of that. Right. But when you say that to somebody, what you're really saying is I'm giving you the gift of seeing you and you're, there's nothing more important in this moment than you.

41:55Emma Grede:I am so happy that you said that because to me, it's just, it's almost like a lost art. You know, I have been working for so many years. And so, you know, the goal when I was the middleman was always to get in front of the people, like to take your relationship off of the phone, off of the email and just get in person with people. Because in person with people, you know, you'd see their nail color. You would understand like what tube stop they got off of. You'd talk to them about their kids. They'd walk in and tell you something about their day. You'd create a connection. And through that, you know, I remember like writing down, you know, I'd be like Jeff from Mercedes has three children and he loves, you know, going to Spain, like whatever.

42:42Emma Grede:But like just that, the immediacy of the connection and where your relationship goes when you can be like, oh, how was your vacation in Spain? And now I feel like because of so much that's happened in the wider culture, but certainly in the workplace, we stopped thinking it was a good idea to get to know people. our clients, our vendors, our colleagues, you know, it's like, maybe we don't feel as comfortable in asking those questions. But to me, it's like, how do you forget like just the negotiation piece? Like, how do you do business with people that you don't know?

43:17Mori Taheripour:How do you do business with people you don't know? And how do you expect this to become more than a one-time deal? For any entrepreneur, any business owner, you know, you don't want that one-time deal. You want business in perpetuity, right? Where relationships actually matter. And the other thing is you may decide that this business isn't right for you at all. And how are you going to discern that if you've already gone in and signed a contract, right? So you treat this as an opportunity to learn when your main objective is not the end result, but the journey and the conversation and the connection.

43:52Mori Taheripour:And you know what, if I end up not doing this deal, at least I've learned a lot about you. You know, And if not today, maybe in the future. Maybe in the future. Life is long. Life is long. And guess what? You've so enjoyed this conversation with me that if today you can't afford my services, when you can, you're going to be like, you know what? I'll see you then. Emma, she was great. I really enjoyed that. Can we go back to Emma? And you've now sort of sown the seed, right? And that's where long-term opportunities come from.

44:26Emma Grede:And I can't tell you how many times that's happened in my career, that something hasn't been right for right now, but it's come back around full circle. And then you've kind of got the inevitability that when you're in business, when you're employed, whatever your professional situation is, shit goes wrong. And when you're in relationship with someone, your ability to make things right, to get on the same team and say, you know what, like we need to work through this problem, situation, emergency, when you know each other, when you've bothered to get to know one another beyond the relationship that you're in, the immediate one, everything changes.

45:04Emma Grede:Everything. Everything changes. You do stuff together and you figure it out and, you know, things just become better and stronger. And I just feel like, it's interesting to me that that's somewhat lost a little bit now.

45:17Mori Taheripour:Oh yeah. Well, there's so much lost these days. The power of connection, the power of conversation. I mean, the minute conversations became reduced to like text messages, right? And the humanity that's lost in that, it's really incredible. Because again, it's all in favor of the efficiency. To me, you know, negotiations is so elegant. It's this like beautiful dance. Like I've got one painting in my apartment. It's the painting of this couple doing the tango. That is negotiations to me. It's this beautiful, elegant back and forth and the rhythm. And when I step forward, you're moving back and we trust and we're moving together.

45:54Mori Taheripour:The flow. I love the idea that you have like a negotiation painted. Yeah, it's just, I see them and I think. That's the best, by the way. But I'm like, they're negotiating. Yeah, totally. They're building trust. They're moving together. And one can't be ahead of the other and the other can't be ahead of the other. We flow because we know each other. We flow because we are in rhythm, but understanding. That's information exchange. So if that's information exchange, if that is done well, then this next stage, believe it or not, that can all be done by email. I can now negotiate a contract with you.

46:25Emma Grede:Because you have enough information. You've gathered the data. You've done the work before you get into the room and you're armed with exactly what you need.

46:34Mori Taheripour:When you spend time getting to know each other, then you're less likely to question someone's intentions. What I'm trying to communicate to you, you're likely to receive it the way I mean it, or at least come a lot closer. That delta is not as big, right? Yeah.

46:48Emma Grede:Or at least give somebody the benefit of the doubt because you know what type of person they are and what their intentions might have been. They've sat with you.

46:53Mori Taheripour:They've talked to you, right? And if you do information exchange really well, by the time somebody makes an opening offer, it should not be this surprise. Like, how dare you? It should be like, oh, I knew they were going to be expensive, but they told me all about their story. They told me how they do business. They told me what their products, the raw materials they use. I mean, you're in the clothing manufacturing business, right? It makes a difference, right? It makes a difference. Right. And so if you have educated me through information exchange about all of that, I understand your value proposition.

47:24Mori Taheripour:So I can assume buying something from Skims is going to have a certain feel to it. It's going to have a different quality and the quality assurance and the care that goes into it. It will, Maury. I know this. That's why I buy Skims. But that's because I know what I'm getting because I know. And never mind that by the time I put it on, it feels a certain way. but I'm willing to pay the price because you've told me why I should.

47:48Emma Grede:How do you teach people to deal with rejection without internalizing it?

47:53Mori Taheripour:Because they're not saying no to you. They're saying no to that thing. It's not about me.

47:58Emma Grede:You're creating some distance.

48:00Mori Taheripour:This doesn't work for you. You're allowed not to like this, right? It doesn't mean you don't like me. It doesn't mean that you're rejecting Maury. And guess what? I love a good no. I love a good no. By that I mean, if you say no, I'm going right back to that like childhood mindset. I'm like, tell me why it doesn't work. Or I can understand this may not be right for you, but give me more information. And so few people do that part. Oh yeah, because they hear no, they're like, you're the dagger. Yeah. Because immediately you're saying they're rejecting me. No, they are not rejecting you. But there's so much to learn from rejection, right?

48:35Mori Taheripour:Yes. But ask the question. Ask the question. That door closed, but another one will certainly. And they have the right. They have the right to say, no, it wasn't right for them. Right. So instead of saying, oh, I understand. Or worse yet, well, can we lower the price for you? You know, no, that didn't work. I totally understand. Give me more information. We'd love to do business with you. Maybe this isn't the right time or what have you, but we just give me more. Let me know what, what maybe could work or what could we have done better? Right. If not now, then maybe later. But you learn from those, right?

49:11Mori Taheripour:And I think you become a better business person for it. I think it builds resilience. It builds grit, right? But nobody's no is going to stop me.

49:20Emma Grede:What is the one mindset shift you would impart and you would love people to know when it comes to negotiation if there was just one thing? You've done this before. You've done this forever.

49:31Mori Taheripour:It's really important for me, for people to understand that this is not new. You are experienced. I've never stood in front of an audience that is not experienced in negotiations, but you're not counting those as moments, right? And so you think you're not good at this. Of course you're good. I mean, even if you're sitting here, that means you've survived multiple bad negotiations, but also have had great wins, right? So you've done this before. You've done this before, right? It may look new, it may look different, but you know, It's your experience. And can you get better? Always. But we can get better at everything always.

50:10Mori Taheripour:I mean, I feel almost uncomfortable. People are like, she's a negotiations expert. Because expert feels so final. Expert almost says, I have nowhere to go from here. I know everything. No. Every person is new. Every conversation is new. I like relish those things. And so, you know, can you get better? Yes. But are you better at this than you think you are? Emma, 99.99 % of the time, that's a yes. You're just not giving yourself credit.

50:38Emma Grede:God, that's, I mean, that's really good information. So I asked my audience before you got here, if they would ask some questions, will you take them directly from, I have my, I've got my phone. Oh God, there's so many. Do you know what, do you know what's so interesting? I'm getting nervous looking at you. No, it's funny. I mean, there's a lot of questions that talk about guilt. here. That's so interesting. Like what, you know, it's like, how do I do this in a non-invasive way? How do I ask in a kind way? How do I not feel? I mean, that's just, that's just wild. People are worried about how the person on the other side feels.

51:22Emma Grede:How much should we be concerned about what the person on the other side is feeling and not to overstate your ask and ask for too much?

51:30Mori Taheripour:Oh God, no. That second part, no. I'll go there in a second. But this notion of, I do believe that likability matters. I do. Because I think that no matter who this person is, you have to come at it from a place of respect. I think people will say more, will open up more, will be more vulnerable, will be likely to do business with you again if there's this notion of likability. And that doesn't mean you have to like me. That just means I'm going to show up and I'm going to listen to you. That means I'm going to show up and pay attention to you. That means that all the devices are shut off. I am at that moment again, making you feel really important.

52:04Mori Taheripour:And so that's really the only thing you owe them, right? That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. Be respectful. And people often then think that what you're asking for is the most important thing. It's actually how you're asking for it. That's important, right? So instead of worrying about, am I asking for too much? Worry about how you can make them feel comfortable and respected and create that openness and that conversation. How you ask, it matters. It really does. And that's why I can't understand the people that come in and the brute force and the aggression and all that. I don't think that anybody likes working with somebody who belittles them.

52:47Emma Grede:No way. That's my next question. What is the wrong way to negotiate. There is no wrong way, Emma. I really wholeheartedly believe that.

52:53Mori Taheripour:Because wrong for who? I mean, if I am somebody that says there's no prescriptive way, like bring yourself and be authentic. For somebody who's aggressive in nature, they've probably had a lot of successes. So who am I to turn around and say, because I don't negotiate that way, that is the wrong way. Now, again, can you improve? Yes. Are there's, even if you are somebody that has that more sort of aggressive personality. Are there things that you can do to improve? I would say, yes. You know, make sure that you are paying more attention to people. Make sure that you have more questions for them.

53:29Mori Taheripour:Make sure that you're curious, but I can't tell somebody that you are wrong in the way you are negotiating because you are different than me. This is the last question.

53:39Emma Grede:How do I, this is a, this is such a sweet question. How do I make sure I don't walk away with any regrets?

53:47Mori Taheripour:So regret, regret is a really powerful feeling. I used to think that regret was like the worst thing in the world. And I write about it in my book. I used to refer to it as like this heavy blanket that we wear. Like it's very hard to get rid of regret. I can get angry. I'll go to a boxing class, right? Go for a run, right? I can be sad and I can get over that. But because I'm somebody that lives in my head so much, regret would just take over. And oh my God, I should have and would have and why didn't I and all the rest of it. And then I realized that here's the thing, like again, the burdening of myself and not being able to move past that, because what is all that going to do?

54:25Mori Taheripour:I'm not going to learn anything from it. So I started to look at regret very differently. I started to think this, first of all, if I regret it, that means it was meaningful to me. That conversation, that negotiations, that moment. And I let myself feel it because I feel like if I bottle it up, it'll show up some other way, right? But then I'm like, okay, so what could you have done better, right? What did you learn from it? What could you have done differently, right? And now what regret is allowing me to do is that if something is that important to me, how can I be better the next time? Because what I've now immediately done is I like controlling the things that I can control because only those things will allowed me to get better.

55:06Mori Taheripour:So if I can learn, if regret becomes a moment in time where I've learned a lesson, not only to understand what was worth fighting for, but also how I could have done that better, then regret actually becomes in some ways kind of magical because it's a life lesson. It's a moment, right? But you're not dwelling in it because then it feels like you are giving up your power. Use regret as an opportunity to feel actually better and more powerful and more educated and just learn. Why is it so hard for us to be present all the time? Because most of us are either living in the past, thinking about all the things we should have done differently, regret, or living in the future and all the things I'm supposed to do.

55:50Mori Taheripour:But that part right in the middle, which is so beautiful. I'm not trying to regret this too, right? And I'm trying to own this moment. I'm trying to be in it. Is it always good? Hell no. When has my life ever been good all the time? Never. Right. But I don't want to miss those moments. Oh yeah. And so don't regret this now. Like do something with what you have in your power in this moment. Like you can change it. You can learn from it. You can do something with it, but don't give away this moment.

56:19Emma Grede:Do something with it. I love your thinking about that. And I, you know, as a mother, I try to teach my kids. I'm like, guys, if it feels terrible, it's a teacher. And, you know, in the most simple way, it's my way of explaining to them, like, look for some kind of lesson in this, like look for whatever it's trying to tell you. And I feel like, you know, had I have had that type of information in my twenties, that some of this stuff that felt so bad in the moment was actually there to teach me something. It just is so, so useful. So I love your, I love your framing of that. I really, really do.

56:54Emma Grede:So I want to feel like this all met something. Yeah. Yeah. Because it does. It does. Because it does. It really does. Okay, my love, I'll just have a few rapid fire questions for you. Are you ready? Yes. I'm the worst at rapid fire. We all know that. Because she's long-winded. All right. What is the hardest thing that you ever have had to ask for in your career?

57:13Mori Taheripour:You know, actually, those moments have not been working for other people. They've been working for myself, probably with my relationship with my business partner. And I think it's because we were probably not meant to be in business together to begin with, but the differences in values. I was very young. He was much older than me. And it was really hard to sort of exercise my power or really my voice because I didn't believe in myself. Because I bought into this notion of because I was younger and less experienced, I must have not been right or I didn't know. It was feeling like I was in a prison that I created.

57:50Mori Taheripour:And the best part of it was when I finally actually did negotiate it in a way that was meaningful to me, where I actually believed in whatever the outcome was. I could live with it because I was asking for it. And it was, it was my voice and it was my values and it was my, you know, my power that, um, even though that outcome was in probably by anybody's standards was not very favorable. It was the most freeing moment ever because I finally used negotiations as the opportunity to speak my voice. I stood in my truth and that really mattered.

58:26Emma Grede:This might actually answer this next question, but what's a negotiation that you're proud of, not because you won, but because you handled it well?

58:34Mori Taheripour:Handled it well. I don't know if I handled it well. I handled it. When I told my father, I didn't want to be a doctor. Most would argue it came way too late. I went through all the things. I went through college, pre-med. I took the MCATs twice. Oh God. The amount of pain that I went through because I was trying to fulfill again his, his promise, my promise to him or what he wanted for me. And finally, when I said it, I mean, it was like the, the worst of things. I let him down. So I don't know if I handled it well, but I did it. And here you are. And here I am. What's one word you've had to unlearn in negotiation?

59:22Mori Taheripour:Impossible. I love that. All things are possible. Even if it doesn't work out, it's not that it was impossible, but maybe it wasn't the right thing. Not impossible. I think that a lot of people walk into negotiations. And again, this comes from the scarcity mindset where they're like, either it's me or you, or there's never going to be a way. We're so far apart on this. You immediately relinquish the ability to problem solve. You immediately relinquish this notion of together we can find a way. And so we kind of get lazy because we're like, can't be done. Look, possibility takes hope, promise, and work.

59:57Emma Grede:What's the question that you always ask before a negotiation?

1:00:00Mori Taheripour:For myself, it's, have I asked for enough? Because I know that I've had the tendency to undervalue myself. Am I afraid to ask for more? Have I understood what I'm worth? Like really that notion of, and it used to be, have I asked for too much, which is part of the questions that you were reading to me. So the women, the guilt, right? Not anymore. I think it's, have I asked for enough? Should I ask for, you know, like pushing myself. Of other people, a lot of times it actually has less to do with that particular negotiations, but more about something bigger. What's important to you? What do you want to do in five years?

1:00:39Mori Taheripour:Like if it's an employee, it's like, what do you want to do in five years? What do you want to do in 10 years? because what I'm indicating is that maybe I don't have enough to pay you today, but I want to know what's important to you so that in some other way I can compensate for that and make you sort of well on your way to this next level of your journey, right? But what's important to you? Like we don't ever ask. We sort of assume and we ask less when we know them. So in marriages, in relationships, in friendships, because we think we know everything there is to know about this person. And so we stop listening.

1:01:11Mori Taheripour:We're not curious anymore. but just that notion of what matters to you. And sometimes people are like dumbfounded because they're like, huh? Like, why does that matter? Because you matter. What matters to you? And I think that those are really, because it tells me things about them. It tells me if their goals are short-term or long-term. It tells me that, you know, something that's really meaningful for them that's maybe different than this negotiations, but maybe this can be a part of that bigger picture for them. It feels like you're allowing them space. It feels like you want more from them than just a thing.

1:01:45Emma Grede:Yeah. And I love that when you talk about relationships because it changes. We're talking just about people and, you know, those things really shift and they change. All right. My final question for you. What is a book that changed your life?

1:02:02Mori Taheripour:Changed my life. So the one book that's been consistently, it's so boring, but the one book that's been consistently in my, like, you know, on my syllabus is required reading. It is how to make prints and employs people by Dale Carnegie. Classic. Classic. Classic. And I sort of got

1:02:21Emma Grede:goosebumps just now, but I think that, but it is, it's so good. And sorry, you said you recommend that on your syllabus. It's a must read. It's a must read.

1:02:30Mori Taheripour:One, I think it tells my students immediately what to expect from the class. Cause I do mine to work. Like I'm, this is, if you want a transactional class, you're in the wrong class. You're going to learn all of that, but you're going to learn how to be a better person, a better human. And you're going to know that I come at this from a place of humanity. And so that's more important to me than any transaction you're ever going to do, because I think if you don't have this, you don't have that. So this is about to be some internal, messy, look at yourself. Here's the mirror. Let's work through this class.

1:03:00Mori Taheripour:And it's also going to be a reminder of things that I think we so undervalued. And here we are in the world, right? But how to treat people, how kindness matters, how empathy is a superpower. It's not weakness. How, yeah, and there's like, if you read the book, for those people that haven't, I mean, it takes you 10 minutes to get through it. I mean, read the book. Yeah. And half the time you go like, Yeah, obviously. But if it's so obvious, why don't we do it? When have we forgotten to notice people?

1:03:34Emma Grede:or when it's a great reminder book. It's like a good book for like the start of something, you know, it's like to just like get your framing correct. Yes.

1:03:44Mori Taheripour:We just need to be reminded that it's really important to treat people well. Because how else do we expect to be treated well, right?

1:03:53Emma Grede:It's the start and the end of everything. It is. It really is. Maury, thank you so much. Thank you so much. You've taught us so much and I'm so grateful to you. Thank you.

1:04:01Mori Taheripour:I'm so grateful for this opportunity.

1:04:02Emma Grede:I really am. You're beyond brilliant. Thank you.

1:04:34Emma Grede:Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Greed.

1:05:18Emma Grede:Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.