Patrick Ta on Accountability, Identity and Building a Beauty Empire

26:20Which by the way, is the best version of having a partner and raising money. Because I think when you have a partner that comes with just the money, like you tire of that partner at the same rate that the money dwindles down. But when you have a partner that brings something to the business, like strategic relationships, they've been in that category before, they understand the business, they can open up doors for you. It actually is a game changer. Is that what you've experienced with your partner? Even though they have come in, they have brought in so much experience. Like there's still so many times that I feel like in these board meetings.

26:57I always speak my truth. I always say how I feel because I'm so passionate about what I do. I don't want to lose who I am within the brand because when private equity comes into play, it's all about numbers and scaling the brand. But for me, it's always been about the product. It's been about building this legacy. This brand is all I have. I've been working the last like 15 years of my life, like it's, it's led up to this point and it's all I have. How are you able to toe the line between the needs and what they want and actually what it is that you want to do and how you want the brand to remain?

27:34I still like juggle that still to this day. We partnered with a private equity firm that one believes in the product, They believe in me. And it's truly been the most amazing relationship. We've grown so much from their experience, their knowledge. And I honestly... They haven't really tried to change me. There are certain things where when it comes to operations and it comes to production schedule, I am not going to let a product go onto the shelves if it is not great. These are things that I didn't learn until maybe like two, three years in. Like there's so much that goes into the development process that I never in a million years thought that like was even needed.

28:25I thought that you would go in, you would create a formula, you would create a color and it would be done. But that's not the case. When you like do like replenishments, like all of these are like raw ingredients. Things change all the time. And like the color doesn't always stay the same. Like the one thing that I'm like such a huge stickler about is that I want consistency. I want the consistency in the formula, in the color. Because like sometimes if you go into a store now, you see a brand that you have like your favorite blush and you go in three years later, you buy the same color. They're not the same color.

29:01But that's something that I am like such a stickler about. I didn't even know to ask that question until I learned about it. I remember like sitting in my first like board meeting. There are all these like numbers like on the screen. Like what the hell do these say? There's all these like abbreviations. Like I knew nothing, but this brand has my name on it. Like I'm not afraid to sound dumb. I'm not afraid to ask questions. I ask dumb questions all the time because like I just want to know. Do you feel like it's your responsibility to understand? Are you the type of founder that's like decided I need to understand the numbers?

29:32I need to understand the abbreviations? Or do you feel like you stay more in your creative lane? I stay more in my creative lane, but it is important for me to understand them. I will ask the question. And every single year has been like a different year. I tackle something every single year or every single month, honestly. Like the more I learn about it, the more I get interested in it. But we are at the point in our brand life now that it's like getting bigger. I can't be in every department, even though I want to be. The first like year when we started bringing on talent and like building our executive suite, it was really hard for me to let go and to trust.

30:13Yeah, especially because if for the first three years when you were absolutely killing it, there were only four of you because I know you eventually brought on a CEO, right? And I wonder what was actually happening in the business that forced you to realize I can't do this all myself and actually I need this position in the company. I was never the CEO of my company. My business partner, Alvo, he was running the company And we got to a stage where the business was growing out like such like a fast face. We needed someone with experience within the industry. You needed a professional beauty CEO.

30:47Yeah, beauty CEO that like understood the relationship with Sephora. Like that, like we are exclusive with Sephora. You're still exclusive to Sephora? I am still exclusive with Sephora. Wowzers, you are. And I'm proud to say that they have been nothing but amazing to us. They have really helped us grow. and they have been like the best partners. And there will be a time where we will thread our wings. But right now, like I'm so happy. I mean, no doubt you've built an amazing business, but I have to challenge you on that because where I come from, the idea of like literally having all my eggs in one basket, meaning that everything is with one partner, they control whether the lights are on or the lights are off.

31:29As somebody who's like, you know, you're controlling, you're the person that like, you know, you have an idea of what this brand is. How do you leave it up to Sephora to decide like the success and the speed that your brand is growing? I think there are so many beauty brands that are launching right now and everyone is like following this like same path. I'm building something slow, but I'm also building something for like longevity. There's still like so much time. And for me, I want to be able to to make sure every single market that I am in now that we show up with excellence. And I'm able to cater to that before I expand.

32:07Because going into these different markets, you need people on the ground. You need to understand the region. And I used to think, why aren't I in all these regions? Why aren't I worldwide? Why didn't we launch worldwide? We launched only in the US. We just launched in the Middle East. We just launched in Mexico and Southeast Asia. And we're doing it slowly because I want to make sure the experience for the Patrick Ta girl is like the best experience possible. I don't want to jump ship and launch somewhere where people don't know me. Our product just sits on the shelf because that is like the worst thing ever.

32:49I love that answer actually, that you still have time because I feel like everyone's always in such a rush to have everything and to do everything that can be possible for the brand. And in a way, Sephora is like a safeguard, right? You get to go into a market, you get to have, you know, best in class representation. You get to go in a way that you understand and work with a partner that understands you. So because we are exclusive with Sephora too, like I hold that against them. Like you better give me, you better treat me like I am your only child. Damn right you did. Because like they have to understand like we are giving up a lot to be here.

33:29So I always challenge them for support.

33:41Millions of Americans are looking for effective ways to manage their weight, but finding the right support can feel confusing and time-consuming. Orderly Meds offers a convenient online experience that connects you with licensed medical providers to explore GLP-1 treatment options from home. The process is simple. Complete your information online, connect with a provider, and learn what options may be right for you. No waiting rooms, no complicated scheduling, just a modern, streamlined experience designed around convenience. Visit orderlymeds.com slash podcasts to learn more today. That's orderlymeds.com slash podcasts.

34:17Again, orderlymeds.com slash podcasts. One more time, orderlymeds.com slash podcasts. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Results may vary. Consult a licensed healthcare provider to determine if treatment is appropriate for you. Restrictions apply.

34:41I've had so many incredible beauty founders sit in the chair that you're in right now. and everybody talks about Sephora as this golden ticket, this incredible moment, this turning point for their brand. What did you learn from Sephora that you think maybe you didn't know or something that they really have kind of taught you and educated you in your business? I have a really good story for that. So Sephora is going to buy into you. They're going to like pump you up. They're going to be like your best friend. Like we're going to kill it. We're going to launch this. And one of our holiday collections, like four or five years ago, they like, they ordered so much.

35:17And I was like, Oh my God, we're gonna, we're gonna like crush this holiday. And as much information and advice that they try to give you or lead you in a certain way, they are a business themselves. They have 500 other brands that they're looking at and trying to grow and scale. They have their own numbers that they need to be. I am not the only child. So you need to make sure when you launch a product, you do it how you want to do it and you show up how you want to show up, not how they want you to show up. You launch what you feel comfortable with. Damn right. And I think any external partner is looking out for themselves.

35:56You might be in cahoots and partnership and there's certain things that you can do together, but it's on you, right? It's like, it really is. And I feel like I've also learned that the hard way, getting giant orders from specific retailers and then sitting on a bunch of stuff and then saying, I want to RTV there. I want to return it. And I'm like, oh shit, you do? Before we were in this together. It's like the partnership's gone all of a sudden, but it actually, at the end of the day, it's always your problem, right? It's like at the end of the day, your brand, your problem. It's really true. Now, listen, we have to talk about the recent controversy because there has been a lot of chatter online about you and your latest product, the Transition Blush Duo.

36:33For anybody that doesn't know or for anyone that's been living under a rock, this kind of transpired around another incredible and very respected and well-known makeup artist painted by Esther. And I wonder what your perspective has been on this backlash. Yeah. So I recently launched Transition Blush. It is a three-step program and this is for like the blush lover. The blush lover. You need to have your regular blush, your transition blush and really something to really like marry your concealer to your blush. You weren't content selling, you know, three blushes every minute. You were like, we need to sell more blush.

37:13But this is like the part of like the world building of blush. Like this is something that I was obsessed with. Well, you're the blush guy. Yeah. What started off as a conversation about the product, if this was a need or not, it grew to a much like larger conversation about recognition and creator influence, especially within the Black community and not being recognized for their contributions on culture. At first, to be honest, I did not understand it. The intent of this launch was never to take ownership over this technique. It was to really create a product to simplify this artist technique that people have been doing and simplifying it for the consumer.

38:01This has become such a larger conversation and I've had to take a step back and to really listen to what everyone has been saying. And I've realized that even though it wasn't my intention, the impact matters. Esther is an amazing makeup artist. she really popularized this like high contrast of blush on dark skin. When we were creating the launch strategy for this collection, I wanted to invite artists and creatives and creators that shared the same love for blush. Did a collaboration with Esther ever come up internally? So I personally reached out to Esther. My team reached out to Esther and unfortunately she declined the opportunity because she wasn't taking paid collaborations at the moment.

38:56And this was prior to the launch? This was prior to the launch. Okay. So you actually went out to her to be a part of your launch of this particular product? Yeah. This launch has been a very hard launch for me. Like I created this like with like, with like such heart and... It feels to me, Patrick, like you kind of understand that launching this particular product without a mention of her influence of the technique kind of felt like an erasure of her influence. And again, I think she's been very vocal. She didn't create the technique. She's somebody that's more recently popularized the technique.

39:30But the fact that you guys went out with it in the way that you did feels like she should have somehow come up and been credited and she wasn't. And because it so frequently happens specifically with black female creators and artists, it has, it's escalated into something that is disproportionate to what you would have perhaps hoped for considering that you went out to her. But it feels to me like there's some sense of remorse or some sense of understanding or am I misunderstanding? Yeah. I'm really sorry for like, I am genuinely sorry for like the hurt and the frustration that I have caused and that for anyone who has ever felt like overlooked or not recognized on like their contributions.

40:13Like that was never my intent. My intent was only to create a product to allow people to make this technique like more accessible at home. And when we talk about like the trademark issue... Because that's what people have got their knickers in a twist about, right? Like people feel like the fact that you trademarked it is the overstep. Like that's the thing that's got people like super riled up, apart from the fact that she's not involved and her name isn't mentioned. It's like, you've gone out and taken this technique and put a trademark around it. So what people don't understand, like I did not trademark the technique.

40:50You cannot trademark a technique. You trademark the name. I trademark the name and I trademark every single product name. And I just want to, and I don't want to cut you off, but I do want to just say, so do I. Every single fucking thing I do in every single brand, if a trademark is available, we will trademark it because the intention and the investment and, you know, we're not making products that last a week. We're trying to make products that last five, 10, 15 years. A matter of usual business practice is to try to trademark what it is that you're putting into the market. There's nothing weird and unusual about that, even if it isn't fully understood.

41:25But of course there has been uproar around the fact that you did that. But I think it's important clarification that you're not trademarking a technique because you can't, you're trademarking the product name. I think this conversation became even bigger because several years back, I had an incident with this creator. Her name is Ivana Sunshine, who is a creator that I met through Sephora Squad. And I loved her energy. I saw her content. It was so authentically her. I reached out to my team to work with her on a brand level. And there was a delayed payment on an invoice, which was fixed, but not knowing like back then, like how this happened, like I hated that that happened.

42:11And it was really important for me to like, take, like take a step back and like pause for a second and really like understand like what happened. I really like realizing that like, this was a administrative issue. We did a complete like overhaul on our accounting process to make sure that like this like never happens again. But I also understand that like when you are building a brand, mistakes happen. Like people are not perfect and I am not perfect. But what I can say is that I work really hard to learn and to always try to be better and do better. Yeah. And I mean, it feels like you've built this career of yours on sort of fighting to be seen.

42:57And so there's a responsibility, I guess, that you must feel somewhat that you have around allowing others to be seen. And I think that's the thing that people have missed, right? This becomes an issue of reputation. One thing happens, something else, people draw a line between the two and your reputation is what you're essentially trying to defend. And I think that's where, if you're an outsider, it looks a bit murky because when you look at what the internet says, there's an allegation around your business partner booking an appointment and perhaps that appointment not being what it was originally intended to be, which is this do and go.

43:32And so Esther gets left in this position where she's like, wait a minute, they want to film my technique. This is a partner of Patrick's and this isn't something I'm, you know, comfortable with. And then there's a separate thing of you filming some content and verbatim using some of painted by Esther's language. And I think that there's no smoke without fire. It's like the one thing happens, the second thing happens, the third thing happens. And all of a sudden you find yourself in the eye of the storm. Now I'm not sitting here saying whether you're wrong or right. I'm asking really the question to you is, having had the benefit of hindsight and been able to look at what's happened, would you have done anything differently?

44:08I want to touch on my business partner reaching out to Esther to do her makeup. This was not a brand related thing. So Rima, my business partner, reached out to Esther on a personal level to get her makeup done for Easter brunch. And content was always like within the asked. Oh, so it wasn't a do and go. It wasn't a do and go. It was always in the ass to her team. They sent over a rate and then changed the rate a few days later and Rima declined. So the job never happened. So Rima declined. So actually, I feel like the story on the internet is the other way around. The story on the internet is that a do and go was booked.

44:54The booking then changed on the day of into let, I want to be able to film this content. And actually it was Esther who decided I'm going to cancel the appointment because she wasn't comfortable showing, you know, doing her technique, I think specifically with your business partner. Yeah. I think being an artist myself and having an agent, I don't know everything that my agent communicates with the client. And I think that is something that happened between her and her agent with the communication because we have all the emails and it is like stated exactly as that. No, fair enough. What do you think about the criticism in terms of this idea of how you have presented yourself online with some of the language being extremely similar to videos that Esther's done in the past?

45:45Because there are things in these videos, like she fucks up and she says something like back of palm instead of the back of your hand. You know, there's this thing about, you know, using a sponge and that being the technique. There's all of this stuff being thrown at you. And I feel like at some point, like you'll want to clear that up. Like you want people to understand, are you copying Esther's content? Did you look at her video? And let me just be honest. I think that very often I have looked at things and taken inspiration. The question is, did you look at a video and take inspiration? No, I filmed that video months before during my campaign shoot, knowing that I wouldn't have time to create content during the actual launch.

46:28Her content came out just a week prior. So there is no way that I could have copied her.

46:59We'll see you next time. redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void word prohibited by law. 21 plus. TNCs apply. How are you even feeling as you go through this? Because it feels like there's a part of this that feels like petty internet drama. There's a part of it that feels deeply sort of layered and connected reputationally to things that have happened in the past. Like, where are you at with this now? Are you regretful of the situation? Do you wish went down? Have you spoken to Esther? I reached out to Esther to have a conversation artist to artist and she hasn't responded.

47:42I have had nothing but amazing interactions with Esther. So I'm actually really shocked that... Well, she's someone you admire. You admired her enough to think that she's great and you've loved what she's done in the past. Yeah. So I'm just like really... How this all unfolded was just like honestly, like really unfortunate. No, fair. I, listen, I think it's really important to have the conversation. And I think as a business owner, I would be lying if I said I hadn't found myself in similar situations. And I have absolutely always tried to resolve them woman to woman. I mean, I had a situation not so long ago, actually, where we had made, you know, like, what do you call it?

48:23A sleeping mask in one of my brands. And the woman who owns this incredible, you know, the silk company that does the hair bands and the face masks and the pillowcases. She reached out to me and she said, hey, Emma, you have copied my mask. And I said, no, no, no, there's no way we have. And she said, yeah, girl, you have, because we have a proprietary way of padding the marks that protects your eyelashes. And I was like, let me check this out. I had a look. She holds a pattern for that. And I was like, oh shit. Now, I always think that when you're dealing with a situation like that, throwing your hands up and going, you know what?

48:55And which is what I did. I phoned her up. I said, I think that I have X amount of thousands of these left. I'm going to take them off the website. I am so sorry. We will not continue with this product. And I don't know, maybe three months later, something came up where I needed this type of product and I called her up and we did a collaboration. And right now there is a collaboration between our brand and her brand that's in the stores. And we figured it out. I have had countless things that have happened like that. And some that have ended up in worse situations and gone all the way through the kind of legal system and some that have, you know, ended less well.

49:33But I feel like there's always a way to resolve so long as you're going, here's the thing I did and here's the accountability that I took. I'm sure that you feel a sense of accountability in all of this. So as a brand founder and as the brand being my name, I take full responsibility of everything that this brand does. And... You look really sad about it. I'm like... I'm sad that my... I don't have like the right word, but I think I'm sad that like people are taking my integrity away from me when I can't even like defend myself, which I'm not trying to defend myself. You know, I never found a situation like this where there wasn't a way to make amends.

50:26And I think artist to artist, when two incredibly creative and talented people, you know, I'm sure she doesn't feel so great about the situation either in a different way. But I'm pretty sure that if the intent is there to make amends, that you'll be able to do that. And I hope that you find that because that's kind of what I'm seeing in your face and your eyes right now. I still respect her so much as an artist. I would love to do something with her. It is really unfortunate how this all unfolded and I want to work with her. I want to have a conversation with her and I want to hear her and really understand because I don't live her life.

51:05What this has taught me, I think it reminds me of the younger artists in myself of I think back now, like I am where I am, but if this happened to me, as me as a younger artist and people not knowing who I am for something that like, or not being recognized for something that I contributed to, I would be upset. So it is especially important for me to allow people to feel seen just as much as I wish for. Yeah. I feel like your whole brand has really been built on that from the beginning. And so I genuinely hope that you can find the resolve. I really, really do. You know, when I think about it and, you know, I experienced so much of this myself recently, like the internet is such a double-edged sword, right?

51:53Because you've essentially built your brand on your social media presence and your incredible clients and your artistry, of course. But it's like what social has given you, it can also have this like other side, this kind of underbelly to it. How are you at this point in your career as a 35-year-old man thinking about the way that you turn up in an online environment, in a social environment? Has that shifted and changed for you? It has not really shifted for me. I feel like I've had a very slow and steady career. I've never had like a shoot up to like stardom. I've been in the industry for a very long time and I use social media for what it is.

52:38I share my own personal experiences. I share my artistry and I share my life and I'm going to continue to because I do it because I love it. There are perks and there are things that come with it, but I think it's where we are. It's where we are. It's part of it. what do you think the next chapter looks like for Patrick Tar Beauty so even though the brand is seven years old there's so much that I want to do there's so much like purpose-driven um initiatives that that I want to do we launched like three years ago beauty that brings you out when I was like with my team like concepting that like tears like ran down my face when when when I heard beauty that brings you out because I connect with it so much.

53:26Beauty has brought me out of the closet. Beauty has given me my voice. It feels like it means a lot to you. Why do you feel so upset? I am a very empathetic person because of my life experiences. And I feel like what people feel. And it just makes me sad that I contributed to something like that. I understand. You know, I think it's actually extremely reassuring that something like this actually touches you like that. Because if you were sitting here feeling totally fine and trying to move on, I think that that would be far worse. I think that you are somebody that has tried to understand the impact of what's happened, even if it wasn't your intention.

54:19And I can only say that I feel like, you know, you know, I wrote a book recently and lots of it was extremely loved and extremely well received and other parts of it were really not. And, you know, you immediately, for me, I felt extremely combative. And then I was like, oh shit, like, let me listen to some of this stuff. And actually it's really amazing to be at the top of your game and have something kind of shake you to the core and have a moment of reflection. And you know what happens? You fucking grow from it. And you know this because you've been bankrupt. You've had shit things in your life.

54:54You've had ups and downs. And when you are, you know, growing something, shit happens. Like it really, really does. The only thing that would be worse than now is if you didn't learn anything from it. That's what it comes out to. And it feels to me like you are just going through the moment of learning for it. So good for you. Good. I'm glad you're fucking upset. And I think that you're amazing and you'll figure shit out. I'm so happy that you would even come and speak so honestly about it because a lot of people would have their fucking teams tell me, he doesn't want to talk about it. You can't ask this question.

55:31You can't say that. And so I give you full credit for actually having the balls of sitting there and willing to take the questions and have the conversation about it because a lot of people shy away from it. So I'm grateful to you. When you think about where you are right now in your life and with this brand, what is it that you still aspire to? Like I said in the very beginning, I've always been a dreamer. And something that I always like to say is I like to dream with my eyes closed because I want to be able to create and see what others can't. That's so poetic and beautiful. That's a good answer to that.

56:09It's really good. All right, I'm going to move you to some rapid fire and get you the fuck out of here. All right, you ready? What's one product in your line that every woman needs right now? My lip balm for sure. What's one healthy habit or routine that you swear by? I feel like I have a lot, but... Give me them all. I know, I got down. Just trying to get myself to the gym. How often are you in the gym? When I am in Los Angeles, at least like four or five days a week, when I'm traveling, maybe two. What is the most underutilized makeup hack? Probably setting your lip liner with powder. Setting your lip liner?

56:42So it stays longer. What is a book that changed your life? I'm going to be honest, like I don't read that much. So I need to start. I actually love that honesty. That is really good. I'll give you my book. You're supposed to say, start with yourself, Patrick. Start with yourself. That's it. Patrick, thank you so much. You're amazing. Thank you. I appreciate you beyond. Thank you for having me.

57:05If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Rees-Dennis. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado.

57:44Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meekle, Evan Cox,

58:03If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

58:23Leaders aren't born, they're made. And they're made like everything else, through hard work. Well, the Chevy Silverado was made for hard work and designed to handle the big jobs. With over 13 ,000 pounds of towing capacity and trailering sway control, Chevy Silverado can haul the biggest loads on the roughest roads. It's a true workhorse. Right now, get 0 % APR financing on a Chevy 1500 pickup, plus no monthly payments for 90 days. See your Chicagoland and Northwest Indiana Chevy dealers for details. Chevy Drives Chicago.